EV Digest 3400
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Gadgets on the dash question
by Martin Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: battery trouble
by "John Floros" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: battery trouble
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: battery trouble
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) fast pulse charger
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: rasertech
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Symetron
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: battery trouble
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Flaming wreckage...
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Gadgets on the dash question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Gadgets on the dash question
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: rasertech
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Symetron
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Fast charging
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Generator and AC motor
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Fast charging
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Fast charging
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Fast charging
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Fast charging
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Hawker genesis 38ah Wanted
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Fast charging
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Fast charging
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Flaming wreckage...
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) OT: Brown Power
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Good answers on this question. Look at the computer mounting in police
cars for some ideas. Two pipes into a plate mount on the passenger
side of the console and a bracket on the high end keep the dash free
of stuff and can be removed without tools.
But a small screen that you want to actually look at might be worth
carving out the sun shield-top of the dash. A sheet metal screen
holder with ears going behind the dash construction could work in some
cars. Could be ugly too.
______________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: battery trouble
> T Humphrey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Recommended end of charge voltages could be quite different. I
> > have a couple of Trojan T-105's and 6 Exide T-105 type batteries
> > for my Elec-trak. The Trojans came with it(unk age) and the Exides
> > (Sams Club) are 1 yr old(built in Apr last yr, bought in May). The
> > Trojans however, though older, are consistantly .3 volts higher at
> > end of charge(24hr rest) than the Exides. I don't have SG
> > measurements to compare, but will start logging them.
>
> While it is true that 'recommended' charge voltages may be different for
> Trojans than for Exides (as they are for US Battery), the observed
> end-of-charge voltages will almost certainly differ from one set of
> batteries to the next based on the actual [ab]usage history of the
> batteries as well as make, etc.
>
> Hile the end-of-charge voltage is not a great indicator, what I'm hoping
> to determine is if Mark's dv/dt algorithm is successful in bringing his
> US125s up to at least the US Battery recommended 2.583Vpc by the end of
> charge. (Since a dv/dt algorithm typically charges to a lower voltage,
> like 2.35Vpc, then holds that until the current drops to some low level,
> and then holds the low current until the dv/dt criteria is satisfied, I
> can be reasonably certain that only at the end of charge do Mark's
> batteries have any hope of reaching the US Battery recommended level.)
>
> > How much of a cycle is considered a cycle. Any time electrons
> > reverse directions?, or is there a SOC level to determine a cycle.
>
> My understanding is that every time you discharge the pack (however
> little) and recharge it is a cycle. Obviously, the shallower the cycle,
> the greater the cycle life of the pack, so shallow cycles don't 'count'
> as much in terms of figuring pack life.
>
> > Perhaps instead of counting numbers of
> > cycles we should be counting amount of kwh(ah) exchanges. This
> > would be more informative regarding battery cycle life I think.
>
> Absolutely! What matters in the end is not how many months or cycles
> that the pack lasts, but rather how many kWh you were able to get out of
> it over its lifetime. If you do deep cycles, the number of cycles may
> look poor, but you may still get a similar kWh throughput as someone who
> does a much larger number of shallow cycles.
>
> Measuring pack lifetime in kWh of throughput is a more 'portable' figure
> of merit for comparison purposes than lifetime in miles since every
> vehicle will get a different Wh/mi efficiency based on its
> configuration, the user's driving style, and the terrain, among other
> things.
>
> FWIW, I think something like an 80% DOD is considered to be the most
> efficient operating point. I'm not sure if this results in greater kWh
> throughput at the battery, or just the lowest kWh throughput when
> measured at the outlet (i.e. shallow discharges result in more of the
> charge time being spent in the less efficient end-of-charge phase(s) and
> so result in more kWh being consumed from the outlet for a given number
> of kWh extracted from the battery).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hump wrote:
"Perhaps instead of counting numbers of cycles we should be counting amount
of kwh(ah) exchanges. This would be more informative regarding battery cycle
life I think.
Lets see;
the following data is not real
500 cycles 10% discharge 10 ah exchanged 5000 ah total
62 cycles 80% discharge 80 ah exchanged ~5000 ah total
5 cycles 100% discharge 100 ah exchanged 5000 ah total
I wonder if a history like that would actually indicate a battery
life-cycle like that."
I started to think "Sounds like Miner's theory for cumulative damage..."
and then a light bulb came on...
Is there an electrochemical equivalent to Miner's theory? From the example,
which reflects what we have seen with battery life measurements, it looks
like it.
m
__
\
Miners rule says that /_ (n(i) / N(i)) = 1
I = 1
Where n(i) is the cycles you put into the item at a particular stress level,
and N(i) is the number of cycles the item will take at that stress level.
Now from our knowledge of batteries, the number of allowable cycles appears
to have a power or exponential relationship with the depth of discharge, or
Life in cycles = A * (% DOD)^B
A and B depend on the battery, but this data is usually measured by the
manufacturer to some degree, so we can predict what A and B are.
With some data logging over a pack's life, we should be able to determine if
this theory is close to accurate. If it is accurate enough then you can use
it to see how much of a pack's life you take away by the particular cycle
you just did. Also, for those planning a conversion, it could lead to
relatively accurate predictions for life, enabling a better choice of
battery type for various driving cycles.
Of course, there should also be a constant reduction term that reflects the
effects of aging, because a battery will die from age if you use it or not,
but this could be a start for a battery life prediction equation.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted below:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:37 PM
Subject: RE: battery trouble
> Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I have US125's in my electric Jeep now and follow Trojan's
> > C/40 final charge dv/dt=0 taper recommendation.
>
> What sort of voltages are you seeing by end of charge?
Typically I see 2.58V per cell at EOC new/cold and near 2.40V as they get
older/hot near 5-600 cycles or around 8k miles.
If you track
> specific gravities, what sort of values are you seeing?
I don't track specific gravities, too much like work. I only check when I
suspect something, like a battery is dying prematurely.
>
> > There is not
> > a minimum current that I'm aware of, it just takes longer to
> > charge with less current.
>
> This is Trojan's position on the issue, but not US Battery's. Trojan
> recommends a charge rate of 10-13% of C/20, but says that while they
> recommend a minimum of 7% of C/20, the only effect of charging *their*
> batteries at a lower rate is longer charge duration (unless the current
> is so low that the batteries never come up to the recommended charge
> voltage).
>
> US Battery, however, states that it is essential that *their* product
> see 10-13% of C/20 for at least the first few minutes of charge to help
> break up sulfation and avoid premature shedding of plate material,
> especially if the batteries are deeply cycled.
I don't see any difference that I'm aware of between the two companies lead
acid batteries. I find that Trojan has spent more research on the proper
charge regime which works the same on US batteries. The final charge
equalize US recommends at 12 amps is too high, I set mine around C/40 or 5.5
amps (Jim Drizos-Trojan at the time recommended) for a 220AH lead acid
battery regardless of who made it. I use the standard IEI curve with a
dv/dt=0 at the end or .01V per cell per hour = stop. This takes care of
equalizing until the batteries start to get old, then I'll flip the final
taper on once a week after 8k miles.
>
> > I think that you mentioned your
> > pack was 2V and that probably did it in, not the current from
> > the charger,
>
> Steve's first pack came to him at 2V, and he was able to recover it and
> got 9 months use from it.
>
> His second pack (of brand new US125s) lasted about 7 months.
>
> > mine is in the 10-12 amp range also and I
> > typically get 14k miles from 6Ver's and 10k miles from 8Ver's
> > before complete replacement.
>
> How many cycles does this correspond to? Steve puts 2 cycles a day on
> his pack (drive to work, charge, drive home, charge), so although his
> miles may not be high, the number of cycles could be.
I drive 15 miles each way and charge at work, pay back at 6.5c per kwh and
usually go about 10 miles at lunch for parts, hardware, Grainger sometimes
Radio Shack for evening projects. So with two cycles per day about 700
cycles for 6Vers and about 500 20 mi cycles for 8vers. I'm back to using
6vers now 20 instead of 14 8vers which is easier on the batteries also.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just saw on page 39 of Machine Design a short
article about a fast charger designed by Jonathan
Starkey.
I found a little more info with a web search,
http://www.le.ac.uk/press/press/youngleicesterengineers.html
Just thought I would pass this on.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
http://www.rasertech.com/news_report_b.html
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
I guess if one pick a crappy motor to begin with, or use it in so
inefficient region where electronics can somewhat compensate
for it, achieving claimed 3x improvements is not a big deal.
I perhaps could disappoint them showing Siemens
system with about 90% efficiency for motor AND inverter
combined, but why bother. I'm sure they *know* >90%
efficient motors exist.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The efficiency of this motor is no better than some
of the Neodyneum Iron Boron BLDC motors that I play
with. I think the 'inovation' they are talking about
is the high power/torque output for the size of the
motor
Is this much different from the AC motors Victor sells?
No difference. Sorry I already replied on this one
before seeing your email.
If a motor is 96% efficient (audi PM synchronous),
3x better makes it near 98.5%.
Well, in such high efficiencies regions, 1% more
may mean *doubling efficiency* if you already
at 98% and managed to get 99%.
Now, I suppose it is possible to find a way to
manufacture Audi type motors far cheaper, that
would be welcomed and I wish them luck.
Just hard to believe unless it's the same
motor but economy of scale works.
If all manufacturers will suddenly switch
to such a motors, they no question will be
3x cheaper without any breakthroughs.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Typically I see 2.58V per cell at EOC new/cold and near 2.40V
> as they get older/hot near 5-600 cycles or around 8k miles.
> I don't see any difference that I'm aware of between the two
> companies lead acid batteries.
You wouldn't be able to discern a difference in paste/plate composition
by eye, yet such differences are said to be responsible for the US
Battery product requiring a higher charge voltage than Trojan's product.
It is not unbelievable that such differences could also make the US
Battery product more sensitive to initial inrush current level too.
> I find that Trojan has spent
> more research on the proper charge regime which works the
> same on US batteries.
Have you actually tried the US Battery recommendations on your US125s?
I have tested Trojan's charge recommendations on US2200s and measure
lower capacity than when I charge according to US Battery's
recommendations. If you aren't using all of the capacity you have
available, you might not notice the difference, but it is entirely
possible that you might get better even life from your US Battery
product if you follow their recommendations.
> The final charge equalize US recommends at 12 amps is too high, I set
> mine around C/40 or 5.5 amps (Jim Drizos-Trojan at the time
> recommended) for a 220AH lead acid battery regardless of who made it.
Just to be clear, the charge current requirement that we've been
discussing with respect to US Battery products is the *initial* charge
rate, not the finish rate. Steve's charger delivers a solid 12A at the
start of charge, but US Battery recommends at least 23.5-31A for the
first few minutes of charge with US125s. Steve's charger finishes at
3.2-3.5A.
Any idea what sort of ripple there is on your charger's output current,
especially at the start of charge (i.e. maximum current)? Steve's
charger puts out nearly pure DC, and while we can't nail anyone down on
it, there is a possibility that the high peak currents associated with
conventional chargers' output ripple allow the battery's minimum current
requirements to be satisfied even though the average charge rate looks
no higher than Steve's 12A.
> I drive 15 miles each way and charge at work, pay back at
> 6.5c per kwh and usually go about 10 miles at lunch for
> parts, hardware, Grainger sometimes Radio Shack for evening
> projects. So with two cycles per day about 700 cycles for
> 6Vers and about 500 20 mi cycles for 8vers.
Sounds pretty similar to Steve's usage.
Thanks for the data points!
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thought I'd amuse everyone with my personal failures:
Today being a nice day I skipped work and finally got the MR2
reassembled with the upgraded suspension parts and the bug fixed Zilla
1k. The car has sat idle most of the winter as I moved into the new
house, travelled and whatnot.
Took it for a few trips around the block.. did a quick burnout and stop,
everything looked good.
I decided to make a trip down the main drag to get the suspension
aligned before closing time. Left the corner gently and floored it
after straighting out...
I don't remember hearing anything but the main contactor dropping
out..and the car rolled gently to a stop in the right lane of a three
lane road with no shoulder.
The connection at one of the pack fuses must have been loose, and the
melted remains ended up on the lid of the Zilla.
<img
src="http://mindbent.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P3110001.JPG";>
http://mindbent.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-189
Otmar is not going to be happy I scarred one of his children..
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver wrote:
> I don't remember hearing anything but the main contactor dropping
> out..and the car rolled gently to a stop in the right lane of a
> three lane road with no shoulder. The connection at one of the
> pack fuses must have been loose, and the melted remains ended up
> on the lid of the Zilla.
Otmar, please don't cry! It's only paint... :-)
You're in good company, Mark. Many of us (including me) have made the
mistake of not checking to insure that all the connections are tight,
and had a few 'little events' like this.
One other thing I see. This type of fuse is intended to be held in a
fuseholder; not suspended from free leads. When a fuse blows from a
heavy overload, it can blow the ends off, throwing its guts all over the
place. The fuseholder is supposed to restrain it from doing this.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
One other thing I see. This type of fuse is intended to be held in a
fuseholder; not suspended from free leads.
One example for these fuses:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/fuse_inst.jpg
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is an easy fix, have one of the kids redraw
the Zilla head.
Rod
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thought I'd amuse everyone with my personal
> failures:
>
> Today being a nice day I skipped work and finally
> got the MR2
> reassembled with the upgraded suspension parts and
> the bug fixed Zilla
> 1k. The car has sat idle most of the winter as I
> moved into the new
> house, travelled and whatnot.
>
> Took it for a few trips around the block.. did a
> quick burnout and stop,
> everything looked good.
>
> I decided to make a trip down the main drag to get
> the suspension
> aligned before closing time. Left the corner gently
> and floored it
> after straighting out...
>
> I don't remember hearing anything but the main
> contactor dropping
> out..and the car rolled gently to a stop in the
> right lane of a three
> lane road with no shoulder.
>
> The connection at one of the pack fuses must have
> been loose, and the
> melted remains ended up on the lid of the Zilla.
>
> <img
>
src="http://mindbent.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P3110001.JPG";>
>
>
http://mindbent.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-189
>
> Otmar is not going to be happy I scarred one of his
> children..
>
>
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> How would *you* mount a gadget on your dash?
I suspect there are so many differences between vehicles that it would
be impossible to come up with a universal solution.
On my own EV, I removed the ash tray, which left a rectangular hole. I
cut a plastic panel to match this hole, and drilled a 2" diameter hole
in it. My E-meter mounts in this hole. If I wanted to remove it, I could
just pop it out and put the ashtray back.
Here are a couple other ideas.
Plug your front panel into the accessory 12v outlet (a.k.a cigarette
lighter). You could avoid having any dangling wires for data by using an
RF or IR link to it, or sending the data serially on the +12 power wire.
Remove the fuse and replace it with a diode, and it would be easier to
pulse the 12v wire low to send data on it (the filter capacitor in your
front panel keeps it powered while a data low is on the 12v wire).
Many cars have power at the sun visor for a light. Your front panel
could go there. Send data to/from it as above.
Likewise, the rear view mirror often has wiring to it.
You could mount your display panel outside, on the hood of the car. You
view it thru the windshield. There are tachometers etc. that stick onto
the hood with magnets, and run their wires around the rear edge of the
hood to get power and data.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm disappointed. The title of your message led to expect something awesome
:).
It looks like you can repair the damaged connection, check if any other
connections
are loose, clean up the mess and be back on the road.
I doubt that Brother Otmar will be seriously unhappy. He will surely be
glad to sell
a replacement cover. If it were my controller, I'd keep the cover and
enjoy telling
people what happened to it when they ask. It would also remind you to check
all
the connections occasionally.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:27 PM
Subject: Flaming wreckage...
> Thought I'd amuse everyone with my personal failures:
>
> Today being a nice day I skipped work and finally got the MR2
> reassembled with the upgraded suspension parts and the bug fixed Zilla
> 1k. The car has sat idle most of the winter as I moved into the new
> house, travelled and whatnot.
>
> Took it for a few trips around the block.. did a quick burnout and stop,
> everything looked good.
>
> I decided to make a trip down the main drag to get the suspension
> aligned before closing time. Left the corner gently and floored it
> after straighting out...
>
> I don't remember hearing anything but the main contactor dropping
> out..and the car rolled gently to a stop in the right lane of a three
> lane road with no shoulder.
>
> The connection at one of the pack fuses must have been loose, and the
> melted remains ended up on the lid of the Zilla.
>
> <img
>
src="http://mindbent.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P3110001.JP
G">
>
> http://mindbent.org/coppermine/displayimage.php?pos=-189
>
> Otmar is not going to be happy I scarred one of his children..
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay wrote:
>
> I'm disappointed. The title of your message led to expect something awesome
> :).
>
> It looks like you can repair the damaged connection, check if any other
> connections
> are loose, clean up the mess and be back on the road.
>
> I doubt that Brother Otmar will be seriously unhappy. He will surely be
> glad to sell
> a replacement cover. If it were my controller, I'd keep the cover and
> enjoy telling
> people what happened to it when they ask. It would also remind you to check
> all
> the connections occasionally.
>
> Tom Shay
If Otmar's collection of green is like mine getting a spare lid is a
real pain. It messes up the parts counts. But yea the powder Coating is
pretty and lots of Gnar whipes off.
Take it from a EX DCP guy. I have my share of Manzanita Green with Vapor
deposition copper artwork.
Ft is on the way to take back Rod's 9" for the GP. I gotta surender a
spanking new 9" test mule...
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am following Victor's lead and using an old tablet PC ($100 on ebay)
with a DAC. (see http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/lighting.htm and
scroll to the end). I have several devices for my ICE vehicle going into
an DAC on my laptop. I am looking forward to making the tablet a
permanent mount as an EV computer/Battery monitor...
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Martin Jackson
Sent: March 11, 2004 11:50 AM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Gadgets on the dash question
Good answers on this question. Look at the computer mounting in police
cars for some ideas. Two pipes into a plate mount on the passenger
side of the console and a bracket on the high end keep the dash free
of stuff and can be removed without tools.
But a small screen that you want to actually look at might be worth
carving out the sun shield-top of the dash. A sheet metal screen
holder with ears going behind the dash construction could work in some
cars. Could be ugly too.
______________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I guess if one pick a crappy motor to begin with, or use it in so
> inefficient region where electronics can somewhat compensate
> for it, achieving claimed 3x improvements is not a big deal.
>
Yup, make sure to pick one that is only rated for 1/3 the power, and
make sure you are comparing an industrial motor to your new
"breakthrough" EV motor, that way you can make claims about how much
smaller and lighter your motor is.
Hmm a good candidate would be the motor I saw at Mendelson's about six
years ago. 10 hp motor and must have weighed close to 1,000 lbs.
Easily four feet long and two and a half to three feet in diameter.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, a standard induction motor might. But it is not exotic to wind a
184 frame motor to get ~4x torque compared to the standard unit if you
use the right inverter. So I think what they are doing is misleading.
Example: A 400lb 280 frame motor is rated at 25-30 hp on 208VAC 3
phase. AC induction motors doing 4x the torque of the *equivalent sized
standard motor* at nameplate power are not exotic, although uncommon,
in my opinion. And they can do it with 90% efficiency. That's a 100 hp
(peak) 400 lb induction motor which doesn't sound impressive when you
look at it that way. In my opinion, at least.
Seth
On Mar 11, 2004, at 9:21 AM, Rod Hower wrote:
At 3.7 times the torque the AC induction
motor is deep into saturation, so I believe the
efficiency number.
The efficiency of this motor is no better than some
of the Neodyneum Iron Boron BLDC motors that I play
with. I think the 'inovation' they are talking about
is the high power/torque output for the size of the
motor.
Rod
--- Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hmm, they are claiming AC induction motors that
are50% efficient at
3.7X rated torque. And claiming that theirs are 90%.
Not very likely.
And seeing as you can buy 90+% efficiency AC
induction drive that runs
peak power far beyond what the normal frame size
would indicate, this
is nothing new.
Seth
On Mar 11, 2004, at 3:20 AM, garry wrote:
Hi Folks,
Thought some of you might find this interesting.
http://www.rasertech.com/news_report_b.html
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just making plans for now. I'm budgeting for my solar
recharging station. sounds like I'll need about 2k of
solar panels and a bunch of floodies. The question is
do I need to set up a PFC-50 in a special way. I would
like to be able to leave the charger in the car so I
can plug it in here at the shop (grid power) and then
go home and plug it in to the dump pack (solar power).
Or do I need 2 PFC-50s?
Gadget
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Reverend Gadget wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I needed.
> > sounds like the PFC-50 is the way to go.
> >
> > Gadget
> > --- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I would store about 2x the energy capacity of
> the
> > > car.
> >
> > =====
> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
>
> Gadget??
> Is this a order?
> I just happen to have a PFC50 on the power bench
> right now. I did punch
> over 15 Kw of grid through it in testing.
> If I am a good boy today I will finish it so I can
> play Dyno for the
> rest of the week.
> How much and what kind of battery pack are we
> talking about? I can give
> you time estimates on recharge. It does 15 to 20
> minute passes on
> Goldie's 13 Yts. 10Kw into a pack that only has
> 2kwhr out of it is quick
> work.
>
> Or... do we have a use for Multi PFC50 work, and a
> large 240 VDC
> flooded pack to dump into a 144 pack, and Zero time
> to make it happen?
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's been posted before, but I don't have the
details. I think Allen St Ives? has a similar
generator setup.
I'm looking for detailed plans on connection of
a 3 phase AC induction motor to an ICE motor
to produce DC power for range extension on the
Dodge TEVan. I have a couple of Baldor 3HP 3 phase
AC induction motors available for this project.
Since I'm time limited I would like information on
how to make this work without doing all of the
engineering myself.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> One example for these fuses:
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/fuse_inst.jpg
This one worries me, Victor. If the fuse blows an end off, you have a
dangling high voltage wire that could easily contact ground or something
else. Also, that looks like a plastic clip. Remember that fuses are
resistors, and get hot! Even at currents that don't blow the fuse, it
can melt that plastic clip!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 17:58, Reverend Gadget wrote:
> Just making plans for now. I'm budgeting for my solar
> recharging station. sounds like I'll need about 2k of
> solar panels and a bunch of floodies.
??? A $2k solar charged dump pack is only going to be good for about
2kwh worth of transfered charge a day. Are you going to be spending a
week charging up for each dump charge?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 4:16 PM -0800 3-11-04, Rich Rudman wrote:
If Otmar's collection of green is like mine getting a spare lid is a
real pain. It messes up the parts counts. But yea the powder Coating is
pretty and lots of Gnar whipes off.
Fortunately I do have a few extras of the newer style, we just need
to upgrade the end plate.
I'm not offended, a little copper splatter doesn't hurt the Zilla. :-)
At 7:38 PM -0800 3-11-04, Lee Hart wrote:
If the fuse blows an end off, you have a
dangling high voltage wire that could easily contact ground or something
else.
Hi Lee,
Well you've got me wondering.
I don't remember ever seeing a spec on these semiconductor fuses
saying that they must be in a fuse holder. My data sheets don't say
one way or another.
I've blown a number of them and have never had one blow apart, but
that doesn't mean much. I am often hanging them off a battery post or
some such.
I have had two fail due to wiggling, but they were the IR type that
are soldered together, not the typical type with pins holding the
ends in some kind of fiberglass tube.
Do you by chance have a source for that information about needing to
mount them in a holder?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers in production, see them here.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 17:58, Reverend Gadget wrote:
> > Just making plans for now. I'm budgeting for my solar
> > recharging station. sounds like I'll need about 2k of
> > solar panels and a bunch of floodies.
>
> ??? A $2k solar charged dump pack is only going to be good for about
> 2kwh worth of transfered charge a day. Are you going to be spending
> a
> week charging up for each dump charge?
I'm betting he meant 2KW, not $2k. That's somewhere in the
neighborhood of 20 panels and $8000-10000.
=====
. _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__) | | \______________________________________________
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I only go there on the weekends, so it will have time
to recharge. But I don't have the time to wait cuz I
only stay a day or two. Once I start living there I
will have plenty of solar.
Gadget
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 17:58, Reverend Gadget wrote:
> > Just making plans for now. I'm budgeting for my
> solar
> > recharging station. sounds like I'll need about 2k
> of
> > solar panels and a bunch of floodies.
>
> ??? A $2k solar charged dump pack is only going to
> be good for about
> 2kwh worth of transfered charge a day. Are you
> going to be spending a
> week charging up for each dump charge?
>
> --
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying
> there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we
> just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem
> solve itself?
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did mean 2kw, 14 panels @ 150 watts each, so about
2100 watts. I've got seven so far. and maybe I'll use
those deep cycle marine batts from Costco, they are
pretty cheap but should be good enough for a dump
pack. Does anyone know who makes them?
Gadget
--- Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 17:58, Reverend Gadget
> wrote:
> > > Just making plans for now. I'm budgeting for my
> solar
> > > recharging station. sounds like I'll need about
> 2k of
> > > solar panels and a bunch of floodies.
> >
> > ??? A $2k solar charged dump pack is only going to
> be good for about
> > 2kwh worth of transfered charge a day. Are you
> going to be spending
> > a
> > week charging up for each dump charge?
>
> I'm betting he meant 2KW, not $2k. That's somewhere
> in the
> neighborhood of 20 panels and $8000-10000.
>
>
> =====
> . _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> __) | |
> \______________________________________________
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you�re looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
Help! I am having a hard time finding 5 or 6 good used Hawker Genesis
38ah batteries to replace some stinkers in my Us-electricar S10 pickup's
pack, any help or sources greatly appreciated. Bill, in Reno Nv.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
One example for these fuses:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/fuse_inst.jpg
This one worries me, Victor. If the fuse blows an end off, you have a
dangling high voltage wire that could easily contact ground or something
else.
If it breaks in half, perhaps. Although the drive system is
isolated from the vehicle and I did connect + and - of the
pack to the body (not simultaneously!! :-) ) to check that
this is no problem. The only problem I see is if both flying
ends somehow join together again.
Also, that looks like a plastic clip. Remember that fuses are
resistors, and get hot! Even at currents that don't blow the fuse, it
can melt that plastic clip!
This is a holder for a liquid hose of an ICE, and made from high temp
withstanding plastic, not polyethylene (or such) thermoplastic.
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/fuse_bracket.jpg
Well, all criticism is correct. A proper way to do it is to have
an insulated base with threaded posts and mount a fuse on them,
and have a cover. Then the leads can't fly away no matter what.
If I'm to implement all the requirements how it really should be,
I may as well build another EV :-)
... which I will...
Thanks for comments!
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
On Thu, 2004-03-11 at 17:58, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Just making plans for now. I'm budgeting for my solar
recharging station. sounds like I'll need about 2k of
solar panels and a bunch of floodies.
??? A $2k solar charged dump pack is only going to be good for about
2kwh worth of transfered charge a day. Are you going to be spending a
week charging up for each dump charge?
Yup, $2K get's you about 400Watts of PV *6 hours is 2.4kWh.
Augh 2kW, is a different story. 150w*7 is 1.05kW, ~6kWh per day,
much better, especially for weekend use only, that's 44kWh per week.
Might be better off with wind generation, if it's windy where you are.
$2K would get you about 5 400W generators, at low wind speeds they
will still make 100W each. Over 24 hours that's 12kWh up to 48kWh
durring a windy day. Or 84kWh to 336kWh per week, Wow. Blow Wind Blow.
> The question is
> do I need to set up a PFC-50 in a special way. I would
> like to be able to leave the charger in the car so I
> can plug it in here at the shop (grid power) and then
> go home and plug it in to the dump pack (solar power).
> Or do I need 2 PFC-50s?
You should be able to do it with just one charger, because
you always want it onboard for oppertunity charging anywhere.
I'm sure that Rich would be more than happy to help make it
work. I'm pretty sure he's done "duel profile" stuff with
just the flip of a switch for standard AC and Dump Pack DC.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Of course I'm QUITE sure that Rich would be happy to sell you 2 PFC-50's!!!
At 06:55 PM 3/11/2004, you wrote:
> The question is
> do I need to set up a PFC-50 in a special way. I would
> like to be able to leave the charger in the car so I
> can plug it in here at the shop (grid power) and then
> go home and plug it in to the dump pack (solar power).
> Or do I need 2 PFC-50s?
You should be able to do it with just one charger, because
you always want it onboard for oppertunity charging anywhere.
I'm sure that Rich would be more than happy to help make it
work. I'm pretty sure he's done "duel profile" stuff with
just the flip of a switch for standard AC and Dump Pack DC.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
One other thing I see. This type of fuse is intended to be held in a
fuseholder; not suspended from free leads. When a fuse blows from a
heavy overload, it can blow the ends off, throwing its guts all over the
place. The fuseholder is supposed to restrain it from doing this.
Is there a standard source for these? All of the EV parts sources just
sell the fuses. Or should I just put it in a enclosed box?
Mark
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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![http://mindbent.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P3110001.JPG"](http://mindbent.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P3110001.JPG"){kind=link}
