EV Digest 3408
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Why am I not supposed to parallel cells/batteries?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Insight for salvage on Ebay
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Twike Equivelent
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Insight for salvage on Ebay
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) who tests batteries?
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Portugal EV conference and the 'One Liter Car'
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Insight for salvage on Ebay
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Insight for salvage on Ebay
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV grin, a little Ampabout
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Recommednations for measureing temp and voltage
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) nsight modifications
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Recommednations for measureing temp and voltage
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Recommednations for measureing temp and voltage
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: nsight modifications
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Recommednations for measureing temp and voltage
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Inverters and music gear, continued
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: nsight modifications
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
by "Vince Barma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Ford Gives UP Inventing - Buys Hybrid Pwrtrain from Toyota ??
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Inverters in EVs (was: RE: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Ford Gives UP Inventing - Buys Hybrid Pwrtrain from Toyota ??
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Inverters in EVs (was: RE: OT Help needed with inverter use and music
equipment)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Inverters in EVs (was: RE: OT Help needed with inverter use
and music equipment)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Insight for salvage on Ebay
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Portugal EV conference and the 'One Liter Car'
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well, this is a simple enough way to figure out if it works, or really
what you need to do to make it work. And not terribly expensive, like
paralleling a traction pack and learning on that.
Seth
On Mar 17, 2004, at 2:15 AM, Tom Peterson wrote:
I was thinking of using "D" cell nicads for my auxillary battery. I
was
thinking of having them in tubes like a long flashlight for the series
part.
Then have enough of these to provide the AH.
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Justin Southam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: Why am I not supposed to parallel cells/batteries?
Hi Lee, thanks for the reality check.
At 09:26 12/03/04 -0800, Lee wrote:
I don't think this would work, for a number of reasons....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, I think so. That said, it is nowhere near passing a safety
inspection in NH (fairly rigirous compared to places out west, or even
Massachussetts). There is a lot of stuff to be done to get it legal.
Like welding in new floors :) This one won't be up for inspection until
June at least.
Definitely worth it in parts, though.
Seth
On Mar 16, 2004, at 10:55 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
Mmm... You probably got what is called a "good deal" on the Rabbit.
$5k-7k seems to be the entry fee for a reasonable EV.
That said, I wonder what it would cost to equip an Insight with a
small AC system and maybe 500lbs of lead.
Chris
Seth wrote:
Looks cool, but 10x what I spent on the Rabbit ($500). For now that's
all that is in the budget. Learning about series wound stuff and
Curtii for now.
Seth
On Mar 16, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
Seth,
This is in your backyard!
I would jump at this opportunity if I had the
capability of checking it out locally.
Rod
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not even wrecked, involved in flood and not running.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=2466585354&category=31839
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure
your PC is protected and
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I git from fairradio.com a 400W smooth sine wave motor generator (Korean
war) that runs off 24V. It runs my fridge & TV when the power goes out off 8
6V (two 24V strings in parallel). I saw a 1000W but it was $200 instead of
$60. Of course if you can get a Xantrex or equiv sine wave inverter for less
than a buck a watt that would be good too but all the one's I've seen are a
bit pricey.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Barma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
> The idea of running the keyboard off of a separate amp from the p.a. is so
the keys wont distort the p.a. when the key player uses the lower (bass
frequencies) registers. It would only be normal that low bass freq's off of
most any keyboard would distort p.a. monitor cabinets meant for middle
(speech/vocal range) frequencies. This is the prime reason that bass players
(like me) need to have the highest power amplifiers with the best slew
rates, and the fastest cone drivers we can get our hands on (like hartke
aluminum cone 10's 8 to a cabinet.)
>
> As for running musical gear off of inverters, I personally have ran a 300
watt sunn colesiem bass head of a $79 (at that time...1972) 300 watt radio
shack (tripp-lite in r.s. clothes) inverter into a 2x15 jbl loaded bass
cabinet across the back of my old '68 chevy van and yeah, while it buzzed a
bit, it was THE LOUDEST car stereo(mono) ever heard in the county of Solano
for its time. This was when Jensen 6x9's, 8 tracks, and the audiovox 40 watt
"booster" were the car audio bill of fare of the time. Everywhere i drove
heads turned ... no one had ever heard such a thing back then!
>
> I also had alot of juice constantly being poured into my batteries by the
cars alternator, hence the batts never wore down wich is what the problem I
see with running a 1kw sinewave inverter off of a couple of YT's. Power out
= Power in so a Kw at 120 volts is still at least 100 amps at 12v. Here at
work in the ENG vans there are two grp27 deep cycles set aside in the
installation just to run the 2.5kw inverters.
>
> I HATE to bring the thought back to generators, but I've tried running my
band off of generators...7Kw... 12Kw... gas runs out at the wrong time,
they're noisy as heck, if your doing this in the summer heat, you have to
give it some cooling... eech... painful, but sometimes
unfortunatly---neccessary. Theres only one small genny I would RENT for
doing this type of gig...the Honda EU3000. It's SO quiet (58db) you can
stand next to it and have a conversation. electric start, doesnt stink, and
its an inverter/generator. A dc generator coupled to an ac inverter --
apparently alot more efficient. I only wish Honda would make these in a
larger size or allow them to be stacked like you can with they're EU1000's
>
> Rock On EV'ers!
>
>
>
> Vince Barma
> Maintenance Engineer
> KQED, Inc.
> 2601 Mariposa Street
> San Francisco, CA 94110
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (415) 553-2163 (415) 576-6257
> www.kqed.org < <http://www.kqed.org>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Want to know how to order a tape? Does a show have a repeat? What book
they were discussing on Charlie Rose? Your answer may already be posted
online in KQED's Viewer Services area, <<
<http://www.kqed.org/tv/viewerservices/>>>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Nothing should be more highly prized than the value of each day."
> --Goethe
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shawn Rutledge [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:40 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
>
>
> Yeah but I bet different amps run on different voltages; you can't get
> high power from 12V without stepping it up, for example. (But you
> could use a car amplifier which has the step-up DC/DC converter built
> in.)
>
> Also I wonder if any of the stuff depends on the isolation provided by
> having a transformer - i.e. chassis ground and signal ground and power
> ground are not always meant to be connected together. I'm planning to
> use a PV/battery DC power bus at home pretty soon (for computers, the
> ethernet switch, some lights etc.) and have been wondering if I will
> run into any problems like that; and if the racks I mount stuff in
> should be grounded both to the negative battery terminal as well as to
> earth; etc.
>
> --- T Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I would bet that all of te equipment that you are planning on
> > running has power supplies that convert the incoming AC to DC.
> > If you can bring an access point to that DC out to the case then
> > you can directly connect the proper DC voltage and not have to
> > worry about an inverter or hum. (I find it very difficult to get
> > hum from a battery ;) )
> >
> >
> > Stay Charged!
> >
> > Hump
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > >Behalf Of David (Battery Boy) Hawkins
> > >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:09 PM
> > >To: EV Discussion List
> > >Subject: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
> > >
> > >
> > >All,
> > >I've been helping with my son's high school drum-line
> > competitions on
> > >Saturdays, and as they plan for a trip to San Diego for a national
> > >competition, one of the instructors mentioned needing a GAS
> > generator for
> > >remote practice locations. Since I suggested using an inverter
> > and YT
> > >battery(s), I'm now responsible for making it happen! So, after
> > looking at
> > >AC input specs on the equipment labels, the maximum power
> > requirements are
> > >500 watts total, consisting of a microphone mixer that mics some
> > pit
> > >equipment, an amplifier powering four small monitor speakers
> > pointed at the
> > >audience (they should be using speakers on stands), and a
> > keyboard along
> > >with it's own guitar style amplifier which also feeds into the
> > mixer. In
> > >fact, while asking questions about the equipment, I realized they
> > could feed
> > >the keyboard directly into the mixer, and point a small speaker
> > at the
> > >keyboard player to eliminate the guitar amplifier (60 watts). The
> > pit
> > >instructor said he had used an inverter in the past, but had some
> > speaker
> > >hum. Anyway, I was going to try using my cheap Coleman brand
> > inverter (used
> > >to power Xmas lights from the EV while towing the band float!) or
> > my APC
> > >brand computer UPS, just as a test, but I don't want to damage
> > any school
> > >equipment which would require a bake-sale to replace! So, has
> > anyone powered
> > >sound equipment from an inverter and battery(s)? Please e-mail me
> > off-list
> > >if you can help. Thanks for your time, Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
> > Officer with the
> > >Denver Electric Vehicle Council http://www.devc.org/ Card
> > carrying member
> > >and racer with The National Electric Drag Racing Association
> > >http://www.nedra.com/ Lyons, CO 1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's,
> > but with a
> > >dead DCP controller the 15 year-old daughter isn't learning to
> > drive yet!)
> > >1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> . _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> (_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> __) | | \______________________________________________
>
> __________________________________
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are there any other Twike equivalent type vehicles out there (peddle assist at 55mph)
that can be purchased that aren't an arm and a leg$$$?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*nod* Wish I had known earlier; I would have given you my 84 VW GTI.
It's motor was good, but the things around it were shot (like say the
fuel pump, etc). Couldn't find someone to take it so I junked.
So what is the layout on the batteries? 72 volts should be 12 T105's;
most of the Rabbit conersions I have seen either have 16 or 18
batteries. Is the back seat useable, or did they turn that into battery
place?
Chris
Seth wrote:
Yeah, I think so. That said, it is nowhere near passing a safety
inspection in NH (fairly rigirous compared to places out west, or even
Massachussetts). There is a lot of stuff to be done to get it legal.
Like welding in new floors :) This one won't be up for inspection until
June at least.
Definitely worth it in parts, though.
Seth
On Mar 16, 2004, at 10:55 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
Mmm... You probably got what is called a "good deal" on the Rabbit.
$5k-7k seems to be the entry fee for a reasonable EV.
That said, I wonder what it would cost to equip an Insight with a
small AC system and maybe 500lbs of lead.
Chris
Seth wrote:
Looks cool, but 10x what I spent on the Rabbit ($500). For now that's
all that is in the budget. Learning about series wound stuff and
Curtii for now.
Seth
On Mar 16, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
Seth,
This is in your backyard!
I would jump at this opportunity if I had the
capability of checking it out locally.
Rod
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not even wrecked, involved in flood and not running.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=2466585354&category=31839
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure
your PC is protected and
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I am looking for information on independent EV battery test results. The USABC was
doing testing. Are they still and do they release their test results to the public?
Does anyone know of any other formal battery testIng groups and where I might see
their findings?
Thanks
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I was wandering the Internet today and discovered there is an EV conference opening
today in Lisbon. http://www.apve.pt/
List of exhibitors include the "Think" Car and something called the ' one liter car'.
http://www.onelitercar.de/home.html. The site is in German but it looks like a Tango
type EV. 2 People, Tandem seating, 4 wheels.
Kind of neat.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The backseat was turned into a bonfire, actually. The car had a fire
inside. A small one, looks cabling related.
8 T-105s in the back, 4 in front in a rack. The back seat was useable
before the incident, AFAIK.
Yeah, I would have loved a GTI to transplant into. If anyone else out
there has a dead rabbit (Volkswagen, that is!) in the Northeast they
want to ditch, let me know. I know Bob has some spare parts, but I am
looking for stuff like floors, I think. Or I can fab those.
Seth
On Mar 17, 2004, at 9:09 AM, Christopher Zach wrote:
*nod* Wish I had known earlier; I would have given you my 84 VW GTI.
It's motor was good, but the things around it were shot (like say the
fuel pump, etc). Couldn't find someone to take it so I junked.
So what is the layout on the batteries? 72 volts should be 12 T105's;
most of the Rabbit conersions I have seen either have 16 or 18
batteries. Is the back seat useable, or did they turn that into
battery place?
Chris
Seth wrote:
Yeah, I think so. That said, it is nowhere near passing a safety
inspection in NH (fairly rigirous compared to places out west, or
even Massachussetts). There is a lot of stuff to be done to get it
legal. Like welding in new floors :) This one won't be up for
inspection until June at least.
Definitely worth it in parts, though.
Seth
On Mar 16, 2004, at 10:55 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
Mmm... You probably got what is called a "good deal" on the Rabbit.
$5k-7k seems to be the entry fee for a reasonable EV.
That said, I wonder what it would cost to equip an Insight with a
small AC system and maybe 500lbs of lead.
Chris
Seth wrote:
Looks cool, but 10x what I spent on the Rabbit ($500). For now
that's all that is in the budget. Learning about series wound
stuff and Curtii for now.
Seth
On Mar 16, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
Seth,
This is in your backyard!
I would jump at this opportunity if I had the
capability of checking it out locally.
Rod
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not even wrecked, involved in flood and not running.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=2466585354&category=31839
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Check out MSN PC Safety & Security to help ensure
your PC is protected and
safe. http://specials.msn.com/msn/security.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: Insight for salvage on Ebay
> Yeah, I think so. That said, it is nowhere near passing a safety
> inspection in NH (fairly rigirous compared to places out west, or even
> Massachussetts). There is a lot of stuff to be done to get it legal.
> Like welding in new floors :) This one won't be up for inspection until
> June at least.
>
> Definitely worth it in parts, though.
>
> Hi All;
Yes, Seth has a giood point, car's price really was for parts, set up as
a mouth watering sample of a cheap EV. Had Seth not wanted it, I woulda
bought it myself. Yeah! Right, I need another EV apart in the yard!<g>! Find
a cheap glider in another pass inspection Rabbit or a Golf or Jetta, newer
and cleaner.
> Seth
> On Mar 16, 2004, at 10:55 PM, Chris Zach wrote:
>
> > Mmm... You probably got what is called a "good deal" on the Rabbit.
> > $5k-7k seems to be the entry fee for a reasonable EV.
> >
> > That said, I wonder what it would cost to equip an Insight with a
> > small AC system and maybe 500lbs of lead.
> >
> > Chris
> > Bet it would be a nice EV. A car that has been underwater , at THAT
price? No way, maybe for 200 bux, OK? But it should be completely gutted and
rewired, all electrical switches and whatnot junked, or you will spend your
life getting and keeping the @#$%^ eklectrical stuff working. You know what
I'm talking about, you old Jetta owners, and they hadn't been dunked. I got
rid of a old Jetta that ran fine, the Diseasel engine, I mean.The part time
electrical system drove me NUTS! A kid at the gas station I frequent,
offered me 400 bux! I was willing to hand him the keys and title and WALK
home! Had most of the wiring hot wired with toggle switches under the dash,
left one to turn it on, other one for the tail and brake lites. You get the
point?
> >
> > Seth wrote:
> >
> >> Looks cool, but 10x what I spent on the Rabbit ($500). For now that's
> >> all that is in the budget. Learning about series wound stuff and
> >> Curtii for now.
> >> Seth
> >> On Mar 16, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
> >>> Seth,
> >>> This is in your backyard!
> >>> I would jump at this opportunity if I had the
> >>> capability of checking it out locally.
> >>> Rod
I might go look, but , see above, no bargain!
My two Watts worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:58 PM
Subject: Re: EV grin, a little Ampabout
> Sounds like the first syptoms of Wayland disease!
>
> Congrats on the EV... how long till it's on the track in NH? :-)
>
>
> Seth wrote:
> > I was actually SURPRISED at
> > how much pep the 6.7" and Curtis 400 had. ...
> > The 47 gigawatt stuff doen't get installed until next month :)
>
> May Wayland syndrome is contagious?? Hagerstown, or SOMEwhere in the Big
East? The 47 gig stuff may blow away the Zombie. After all the cars are the
same COLOR!<G>!!
>
> Seeya at the races!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am designing a battery monitor system base on a BASIC Stamp (or
similar), and I am looking for recommendations for measuring temperature
and voltage. So far, this is what I have found:
Temp measurement:
* Thermocouple
* LM34 LM35 ($3 each)
* DS1620 from Dallas Semiconductor ($5 each)
* Thermosistor, capacitor and timer program (N&V 2003) ($1 each)
* AD590 (two wire device, use a cap and measure time - see
InterfacingDejog.pdf) ($10 each)
Voltage measurement
* have to use an A/D converter -suggestions?
Anyone have one preference over another?
thanks
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
has anyone hackd the insight system to make a bipass
switch like someone has done for the prius?
has anyone added more batteries or an aux motor to an
insight?
mine is almost out of the 80000 mi extended warranty
and I am interested in making it more electric/less
gas. I love the car but I really drive it hard and
seldom get more than 55-58 mpg. i am thinking
something like a rear drive system with an 8 in ADC
motor form my elevtric vw. I have been carring around
800 lbs of concrete just to see how it handles with
the extra weight. so far no problem just seems a
little light on the front wheels.
just casting about for ideas
kevs
70 vw bug
74 914
insight
various electric bikes
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use DS1620's on my BMS that is discussed in the EVBMS Yahoo group.
At 07:55 AM 3/17/2004, you wrote:
I am designing a battery monitor system base on a BASIC Stamp (or
similar), and I am looking for recommendations for measuring temperature
and voltage. So far, this is what I have found:
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> I am designing a battery monitor system base on a BASIC Stamp
> (or similar), and I am looking for recommendations for measuring
> temperature and voltage.
>
> Temp measurement:
>
> * Thermocouple
> * LM34 LM35 ($3 each)
> * DS1620 from Dallas Semiconductor ($5 each)
> * Thermosistor, capacitor and timer program (N&V 2003) ($1 each)
> * AD590 (two wire device, use a cap and measure time - see
> InterfacingDejog.pdf) ($10 each)
>
>
> Voltage measurement
> * have to use an A/D converter -- suggestions?
Take a look at my Battery Balancer at
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
It's a working example of a balancer using a BASIC Stamp, multimeter
with serial port as the A/D converter, relays to select the battery to
measure or charge, and thermistors to measure temperatures.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Keith,
The Honda hybrids are very different than the Toyota Prius. The Prius can
run on batteries only for short distances. But the Honda design is basically
an electric turbo gas engine. The electric motor itself is not setup to
drive the car. It only adds power/torque to the gas engine to help with
accelleration.
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of keith vansickle
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:10 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: nsight modifications
has anyone hackd the insight system to make a bipass
switch like someone has done for the prius?
has anyone added more batteries or an aux motor to an
insight?
mine is almost out of the 80000 mi extended warranty
and I am interested in making it more electric/less
gas. I love the car but I really drive it hard and
seldom get more than 55-58 mpg. i am thinking
something like a rear drive system with an 8 in ADC
motor form my elevtric vw. I have been carring around
800 lbs of concrete just to see how it handles with
the extra weight. so far no problem just seems a
little light on the front wheels.
just casting about for ideas
kevs
70 vw bug
74 914
insight
various electric bikes
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I will check out that archive, I did not realize there was such a
group.
Thanks
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: March 17, 2004 8:16 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Recommednations for measureing temp and voltage
I use DS1620's on my BMS that is discussed in the EVBMS Yahoo group.
At 07:55 AM 3/17/2004, you wrote:
>I am designing a battery monitor system base on a BASIC Stamp (or
>similar), and I am looking for recommendations for measuring
>temperature and voltage. So far, this is what I have found:
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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I use a pair of 1500W inverters that I bought at a truck stop for $220
each.. I have no problems with hum, but then most of my gear is digital and
not affected by such things, and I run balanced signals to the power amps.
One thing I do advise to those experimenting with running large amplifiers
off inverters: use THICK cables. I'm using 2 guage - when I was using 8
guage the inverters would have trouble 'starting' the power amps (most of my
amps are the old style that have big power transformers, and the inrush
current when you flip the switch is rather hard on the inverters. When I
tried using a $75 800W inverter, it literally went 'bang' when I flipped the
switch)
S.
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keith vansickle wrote:
> Has anyone hacked the insight system to make a bipass
> switch like someone has done for the prius?
The Prius can drive at up to 42 mph on pure electric power, with the ICE
off and not moving. The 'EV mode' switch (only offered by Toyota on the
non-USA 2004 model Prius) just tells the computers to prefer EV-only
operation, and not start the ICE unless necessary (too high a speed or
too low a battery state of charge). This switch can be added to any 2004
Prius; it's nothing but a command input to the computer.
The Insight has its electric motor and ICE permanently connected. Thus
there would be little point to an EV mode. It would take some serious
mechanical work to somehow separate them.
> I love the car but I really drive it hard and seldom get more than
> 55-58 mpg. I am thinking something like a rear drive system with an
> 8" ADC motor from my electric VW.
This could be a route to add a pure-electric drive. I don't know how the
rear end is set up, but it might be possible to install a differential
and electric motor back there.
The extra battery weight you'd need to carry is mainly determined by how
far you want to drive it on electric power.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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How many watts total do you think all this stuff pulls?
Vince Barma
Maintenance Engineer
KQED, Inc.
2601 Mariposa Street
San Francisco, CA 94110
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(415) 553-2163 (415) 576-6257
www.kqed.org < <http://www.kqed.org>>
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discussing on Charlie Rose? Your answer may already be posted online in KQED's Viewer
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"Nothing should be more highly prized than the value of each day."
--Goethe
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-----Original Message-----
From: David (Battery Boy) Hawkins [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 8:09 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
All,
I've been helping with my son's high school drum-line competitions on
Saturdays, and as they plan for a trip to San Diego for a national
competition, one of the instructors mentioned needing a GAS generator for
remote practice locations. Since I suggested using an inverter and YT
battery(s), I'm now responsible for making it happen! So, after looking at
AC input specs on the equipment labels, the maximum power requirements are
500 watts total, consisting of a microphone mixer that mics some pit
equipment, an amplifier powering four small monitor speakers pointed at the
audience (they should be using speakers on stands), and a keyboard along
with it's own guitar style amplifier which also feeds into the mixer. In
fact, while asking questions about the equipment, I realized they could
feed the keyboard directly into the mixer, and point a small speaker at the
keyboard player to eliminate the guitar amplifier (60 watts). The pit
instructor said he had used an inverter in the past, but had some speaker
hum. Anyway, I was going to try using my cheap Coleman brand inverter (used
to power Xmas lights from the EV while towing the band float!) or my APC
brand computer UPS, just as a test, but I don't want to damage any school
equipment which would require a bake-sale to replace! So, has anyone
powered sound equipment from an inverter and battery(s)? Please e-mail me
off-list if you can help.
Thanks for your time,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and racer with The National Electric Drag Racing
Association
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, but with a dead DCP controller the 15
year-old daughter isn't learning to drive yet!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
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Yes, Ford is licensing Hybrid patents. No, this doesn't mean Ford isn't
trying to design their own. If I had to guess, I'd say Ford wanted to
use their own design but their lawyers found out that they couldn't do
so without infringing Toyota's patents.
Think about it: Toyota has been selling Hybrids since 1997, while no
U.S. manufacturer has sold any at all. That means Toyota has a HUGE
head start. It's actually conceivable that Toyota may have tried to
broadly patent the idea of a car that can run on either or both of gas
and electric motors! Even if Ford didn't want Toyota's technology, the
fact is, it's probably impossible at this point to produce a Hybrid
without infringing on one of Toyota's patents. I think the patent issue
is one reason why Honda's Hybrids can't power the car on pure electric.
It's good to have a 7-year head start in a new field of technology...
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Steven Lough
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 6:53 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR
Subject: Ford Gives UP Inventing - Buys Hybrid Pwrtrain from Toyota ??
This is hear say, till I do some more research, but this afternoon an
acquaintance said he heard it on the radio that Ford Motor Co, was going
to buy Hybrid Powertrain equipment from Toyota in stead of trying to
design their own.
Can any one shed light on this ??
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: SOON TO BE: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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Lee Hart wrote:
> Beware! The battery is NOT isolated from the AC side of some
> inverters! I blew up a perfectly good inverter, E-meter, and
> the serial port of my PC finding this out the hard way!
Hmmm.
OK, electrical dolt question. I have a cheap Sima 140W inverter to
power an aquarium pump for the coolant in my Z1k. It has two outlets,
so I thought it might be handy for plugging in small 120 VAC devices.
When I mounted it I wondered what the ground receptacles in the outlets
connected to.
Apparently grounding is not all I need to know about. Can someone walk
me through the need for isolation? I thought that the inverter AC
outlet needed an earth ground for safety. Since the 12 VDC is isolated
from the pack, isolation in the inverter shouldn't be an issue? Or is
the inverter AC referenced to chassis ground?
What do I need to know or do to keep myself and anything I plug into
this thing from being fried? How do I determine if my inverter is
isolated?
Chris
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Jorg Brown wrote:
> Yes, Ford is licensing Hybrid patents. No, this doesn't mean Ford
> isn't trying to design their own. If I had to guess, I'd say Ford
> wanted to use their own design but their lawyers found out that
> they couldn't do so without infringing Toyota's patents. Even if
> Ford didn't want Toyota's technology, the fact is, it's probably
> impossible at this point to produce a Hybrid without infringing
> on one of Toyota's patents. I think the patent issue is one
> reason why Honda's Hybrids can't power the car on pure electric.
Actually, hybrids have been around nearly as long as automobiles. There
have been hundreds of them! Porsche's first car was a gasoline-electric
hybrid way back around 1910.
All of the basic techniques (including Toyota's and Honda's) are so old
that nobody can patent them. What they *can* patent are the subtle
tricks and improvements they made to get them to work smoothly enough to
compete with present ICE-only technology.
And this is what Ford is after by licensing the Toyota system. Ford
recognizes that they could produce a 'twin' of the Toyota system on
their own, without infringing on any patents -- but it would suffer from
years less refinement and tweaking to get all the little details right.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Chris Tromley wrote:
> OK, electrical dolt question. I have a cheap Sima 140W inverter
> to power an aquarium pump for the coolant in my Z1k. It has two
> outlets, so I thought it might be handy for plugging in small
> 120 VAC devices. When I mounted it I wondered what the ground
> receptacles in the outlets connected to.
The ground pin of its AC receptacles should be connected to the case of
the inverter, which should also be connected to the grounded side of the
+12v DC input.
> Can someone walk me through the need for isolation? I thought that
> the inverter AC outlet needed an earth ground for safety. Since
> the 12 VDC is isolated from the pack, isolation in the inverter
> shouldn't be an issue? Or is the inverter AC referenced to chassis
> ground?
The AC output of the inverter has a 'hot' and a 'neutral' output.
Neutral is supposed to be approximately 0 volts relative to ground. This
is usually done with a high-value resistor between neutral and ground.
They don't short neutral to ground, because it can cause safety problems
(defeat any GFCI's plugged in, or produce a second neutral-ground bond
when used with a transfer box and AC line power).
> How do I determine if my inverter is isolated?
Measure the resistance between the AC and DC sides. It should be a
(nearly) open circuit -- 100k ohms or more.
The proble I had was that I was using a cheap computer UPS. It had an
internal 12v battery, and I wanted to measure its voltage and
charge/discharge characteristics. So, I connected an E-meter to that 12v
battery. It turned out that the 12v battery was *not* isolated from the
AC power! 12v ground was *not* AC line ground! It was connected to the
ground side of a bridge rectifier from the AC power line.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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At 2:13 PM -0800 3-17-04, Lee Hart wrote:
The AC output of the inverter has a 'hot' and a 'neutral' output.
Neutral is supposed to be approximately 0 volts relative to ground. This
is usually done with a high-value resistor between neutral and ground.
They don't short neutral to ground, because it can cause safety problems
(defeat any GFCI's plugged in, or produce a second neutral-ground bond
when used with a transfer box and AC line power).
The cheap inverters that I've taken apart (one was the PORTAWATTZ 300
) have the output ground pin connected to 12V gnd as well as the
negative of the internal filter cap before the last bridge.
As a result, both outputs, Neutral and Hot are hot relative to chassis ground.
Seems unsafe to me, but that's how it is cheap to build.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers in production, see them here.
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Chris Zach wrote:
Mmm... You probably got what is called a "good deal" on the Rabbit.
$5k-7k seems to be the entry fee for a reasonable EV.
That said, I wonder what it would cost to equip an Insight with a small
AC system and maybe 500lbs of lead.
Talk to Gary Graunke, he's done just that:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/461.html
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
Hi,
I was wandering the Internet today and discovered there is an EV conference opening today in Lisbon. http://www.apve.pt/
List of exhibitors include the "Think" Car and something called the ' one liter car'. http://www.onelitercar.de/home.html. The site is in German but it looks like a Tango type EV. 2 People, Tandem seating, 4 wheels.
Kind of neat.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
The concept of a narrow/short vehicle is at least 10 years old,
see http://www.horlacher.com/ev_proto.htm#Prototypes
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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