EV Digest 3409
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: nsight modifications
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: PFC Series Chargers on Inverter
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) NEV's on ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: NEV's on ebay
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Portugal EV conference and the 'One Liter Car'
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Motor shaft temperature
by "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Problem Charging Gem
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Motor shaft temperature
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motor shaft temperature
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Portugal EV conference and the 'One Liter Car'
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: motor current limit?
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: nsight modifications (two ways)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Your bill
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: nsight modifications
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) insightful modifications
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Twike Equivelent
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: nsight modifications (two ways)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Michelin GreenX (LRR) tires on clearance at Tire rack
by seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Motor shaft temperature
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Portugal EV conference and the 'One Liter Car'
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: nsight modifications thanks for the ideas
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Motor shaft temperature
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Motor shaft temperature
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: EV grin, a little Ampabout
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Portugal EV conference and the 'One Liter Car'
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
keith vansickle wrote:
Has anyone hacked the insight system to make a bipass
switch like someone has done for the prius?
This could be a route to add a pure-electric drive. I don't know how the
rear end is set up, but it might be possible to install a differential
and electric motor back there.
MES-DEA units are perfect for this - as you may know, the
gearbox, differential and the motor are already
integrated into one compact unit. Just add half-shafts
to the rear wheels of FWD car and you're done.
Examples:
http://www.metricmind.com/images/mot2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/images/mot4.jpg
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
My 1200W (2400W peak) inverter arrived last week ($99
from Harbor Freight Tools, listed incorrectly as 1300W
peak). When I first connected the same setup as I did
using my 600W inverter, it shut down immediately. It
turns out that it has a built-in GFI of some sort.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47127
With a cheater plug, all is well again. I was able to
put about 910W into the battery pack. If I turned the
current any higher, the current would actually drop.
This inverter has a temperature controlled cooling
fan. So, it is completely silent when the fan is not
running.
I am happy with this setup.
Ed Ang
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > It looks like a massive inductor was the solution.
>
> A massive inductor might get it to charge, but it
> also defeats PFC
> action. The input power factor the inverter sees
> will almost certainly
> be lagging. All that means is that he can't get
> anywhere near full power
> out of the inverter. (Assuming that it is possible
> to get rated power
> out of the inverter under *any* load conditions :-)
>
> > I still would like to know about how many Micro
> heneries are needed?
>
> There is no way to predict the inductance of a
> transformer. The design
> of a transformer is such that 'more' is always
> better, so there is no
> upper limit. The tighter the laminations are
> stacked, the smaller the
> air gaps between them, the higher the inductance.
> Your best bet is to
> have him measure the AC voltage across the
> 'inductor' and AC current in
> it; from this you can calculate the inductance.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that
> still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect
> offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in
> everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light
> gets in -- Leonard
> Cohen
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Lawrence, could you reset to mail in ASCII? Thanks.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:58 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: NEV's on ebay
>
> * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---
Thnaks for the link, Victor. I like the "Egg" and the "Carbon" because of
the smaller frontal area they achieve with the passenger behind. The
"Consequento California" also looks like it might be set up that way.
Does anyone have any nformation about the 'one liter car' like if they hope
to go into production?
> Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was wandering the Internet today and discovered there is an EV
conference opening today in Lisbon. http://www.apve.pt/
> >
> > List of exhibitors include the "Think" Car and something called the '
one liter car'. http://www.onelitercar.de/home.html. The site is in German
but it looks like a Tango type EV. 2 People, Tandem seating, 4 wheels.
> >
> > Kind of neat.
> >
> > Cliff
> >
> > www.ProEV.com
> >
> The concept of a narrow/short vehicle is at least 10 years old,
> see http://www.horlacher.com/ev_proto.htm#Prototypes
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I'm building a tach unit using a Hall effect sensor and magnets. I'm trying
to figure out how to build a collar to fit on the motor shaft, and am
thinking about using PVC pipe fittings in which the magnets will be
embedded. Just wondering if the shaft of the motor will get to hot for the
PVC? Any ideas or suggestions on how to build a better collar for the
magnets?
Thanks,
Ryan
__________________________________
www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
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--- Begin Message ---
Saw this on the NEV list. Lawrence Rhodes........
Electric Conversions in Sacramento now has a $25 microprocessor
upgrade for the GEM charger which increases the range of the car as
well as adds a float function which monitors the batteries and comes
on automatically to recharge them if they get low. This way you will
never have the problem of dead batteries. You can get it by calling
me at 916-441-4161 or emailing me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greg McCrea
Electric Conversions
Distributor of Zivan Chargers
916-441-4161
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Problem Charging Gem?
Bob,
Electric Conversions in Sacramento now has a $25 microprocessor
upgrade for the GEM charger which increases the range of the car as
well as adds a float function which monitors the batteries and comes
on automatically to recharge them if they get low. This way you will
never have the problem of dead batteries. You can get it by calling
me at 916-441-4161 or emailing me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Greg McCrea
Electric Conversions
Distributor of Zivan Chargers
916-441-4161
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
If you go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and type "Shaft Collars" into the
search box they have a selection of all types and materials.
Or a good hardware store may have something.
I do not think heat would be a problem for the PVC in normal driving. But
cold and/or RPM may be a problem.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Bohm
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Motor shaft temperature
Hi,
I'm building a tach unit using a Hall effect sensor and magnets. I'm trying
to figure out how to build a collar to fit on the motor shaft, and am
thinking about using PVC pipe fittings in which the magnets will be
embedded. Just wondering if the shaft of the motor will get to hot for the
PVC? Any ideas or suggestions on how to build a better collar for the
magnets?
Thanks,
Ryan
__________________________________
www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm writes:
>
> I'm building a tach unit using a Hall effect sensor and magnets. I'm trying
> to figure out how to build a collar to fit on the motor shaft, and am
> thinking about using PVC pipe fittings in which the magnets will be
> embedded. Just wondering if the shaft of the motor will get to hot for the
> PVC? Any ideas or suggestions on how to build a better collar for the
> magnets?
Buy one for $35 from evparts.com:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=444&product_id=1568
You can get the hall-effect sender for another $49.95.
Ralph
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--- Begin Message ---
Cliff,
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/0,12543,320360,00.html
This would make an awesome EV with one of Victors
AC systems and some Li-ion batteries.
Rod
--- Cliff Rassweiler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Thnaks for the link, Victor. I like the "Egg" and
> the "Carbon" because of
> the smaller frontal area they achieve with the
> passenger behind. The
> "Consequento California" also looks like it might be
> set up that way.
>
> Does anyone have any nformation about the 'one liter
> car' like if they hope
> to go into production?
>
>
>
> > Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I was wandering the Internet today and
> discovered there is an EV
> conference opening today in Lisbon.
> http://www.apve.pt/
> > >
> > > List of exhibitors include the "Think" Car and
> something called the '
> one liter car'. http://www.onelitercar.de/home.html.
> The site is in German
> but it looks like a Tango type EV. 2 People, Tandem
> seating, 4 wheels.
> > >
> > > Kind of neat.
> > >
> > > Cliff
> > >
> > > www.ProEV.com
> > >
> > The concept of a narrow/short vehicle is at least
> 10 years old,
> > see
> http://www.horlacher.com/ev_proto.htm#Prototypes
> >
> > --
> > Victor
> > '91 ACRX - something different
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > Per your 2nd paragraph, Shawn, isn't the way it's normally
done
> > is to tie the chassis of the inverter to earth ground, and
then
> > run all the rest of your grounds on the AC side of the
inverter
> > through its AC ground wire?
>
> Beware! The battery is NOT isolated from the AC side of some
inverters!
> I blew up a perfectly good inverter, E-meter, and the serial
port of my
> PC finding this out the hard way!
Ah, yes, Chucky would re-invent the wheel... Zap, pop, smoke!!
Oh, no... :-< I just may have seen an explanation some time in
the past for what happened, but that may be a major search (I
just checked your postings that I have on my harddrive and don't
see any mention). My guess is that the E-meter (which I assume
was wired to the battery and the serial port) provided the
conduit for the event, completing the circuit through your serial
port, which port isn't designed to handle such current. However,
the AC from the inverter to your computer probably had to go
through the PCs isolated (I presume) power supply, so that should
isolate the serial port in that direction. Hmm... Could it have
been the neutral line on the AC?
In my case, assuming the Exeltech I'm interested in is one of
these non-isolated inverters, then the place I would have to be
careful is setting up that low-battery voltage gismo that would
shut down the computer before the inverter shuts down - right?
Best to be safe and go with an optical interface of some sort.
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
http://nbeaa.org
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
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David Roden wrote:
> On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:25, Chuck Hursch wrote:
>
> > Nope, the cheapest upgrade would be 16 8V batteries for 128V
> > pack. What are these batteries, $100 each?
>
> Heck no. Well, Trojans at list price might be close to that,
but I paid $53
> each (plus freight) for the last pack of US Battery 8VGCs I
bought.
Geez, sounds like they're giving them away - that's about what I
paid US for each of my 6V'ers in my first pack way back in '94.
Jim Ramos, the local US batteryman, delivered those for me, free,
though. Aside from Lynn Adams in CO (I think I have the name
right), who does some rather phenomenal commuting with the 8V'ers
in his Civic, and gets reasonably good life out of them, most
everybody seems to think that the 6V'ers are the better deal.
The 8V'ers would get hit with better than 300A on this hill of
mine every evening for 30-45 seconds (and other hills),
especially if I was to try to do anything about Rudman's recent
comment... I suspect that Jim would be visiting my EV rather
frequently... $$$
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
http://nbeaa.org
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
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I = constant current
U = constant voltage (why is `U' used instead of `V')
After reading a number of the posts over the last several months
on the battery charging threads, it appears that IUI (constant
current bulk charge; then constant voltage as the amps taper off;
then back to constant current as the voltage rises, with shutdown
of the charger when dv/dt = 0 for an hour (I guess this last is
called the "absorption phase")) is the way to go for flooded
6V'ers (Trojan T125 or US125, or probably any floodeds. Mark
Hansen and others seem to use it, and it works well for them.
This morning I set up my Zivan K2 for IUI on my nearly 3 year old
pack of Trojan T125s. Up till now, I had kept the last `I' from
happening by turning the current set screw for that `I' down so
low it would never reach it. The charger would more or less
float just below gassing the remainder of the night after bulk
charge till I pulled the plug in the morning. As the batteries
have aged, the current has gone up, and so has my electricity
bill, with the float being at about 1.5A, better than the 2A plus
with the two dog cells in there that have since been removed. So
starting about a week ago, with my portable kwh-meter, I obtained
some baseline kwh readings for each night of charging. Now for
the next week, I'll do the IUI kwh readings. As the charger will
shut down after 3 hours of the last `I', I suspect the IUI kwh
readings will be substantially less than IU.
? is: what should I set the constant current too? I selected
2A. That brings the batts up to about 14.12V/12Vpair. To get
Lee's and others' 14.40V will probably be 3A or a little more. I
doubt I want 3 hours of that every night. Of course, when I get
new batts in a year or so, I'll have to spin that current screw
back down.
The batteries are pretty warm right now - sitting at about 70-80
deg F every morning after charge. We're having a near-summer
heatwave here in California-land.
I also have a couple of 12V gell cell batteries that I use for
other stuff. The Japan Storage one is 15Ah, and the little brick
guy is 2.2Ah. They're both rather old, getting along to about 5
to 7 years now, but hey, they still work, and the 15Ah one runs
the inverter for quite some time so I can have some light to work
on the EV down in the carport. But the 6V/12V automatic charger
dumps in the auto cycle before they're fully charged, I suspect,
so I switch over into manual mode, which tapers off the current,
but the voltage keeps rising too. From what I've read on the
EVDL, 14.4V is as high as one wants to go (and age affects that
too), but the charger in manual mode keeps going to 14.6...14.7V
and up. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but gels want IU, right?
I think it's going to take the variac and a soft touch to bring
the batt to 14.4V or so, hold that, and just let the current
taper off.
Chucky - 10+ years into Battery 101
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
http://nbeaa.org
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
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Oh ya, I so want to do this before the big guys "get it" and
put together their own "Performance Hybrid" like you may have
seen which are now about 2 years off.
The Prius already does it, to "fix" the Honda IMAs...
You could move the clutch to the other side of the IMA
motor, but Honda would have better luck with that one.
Some believe that the 10kW (13kW civic) IMA is capable of
far greater output, making ev-mode posible. I do know that
the IMA can drag a gass-less Insight arround parking lots or
about a block to the closest gas station. But it's not very
pretty as it's spinning a dead ICE and sucking the battery dry.
Or, as you've mentioned, power the rear wheels. Those MES-DEA
units look about right, as would perhaps a pair of E-Teks. But
the problem is that the rear suspension would need some major
modifications. It's a twist beam type suspension, and the spring
is exactly where you want the cv joint and half axle to come out
so it needs to be moved. There are no rwd or awd Insights, so you
would need to make the front hubs/spindals/brakes/cv/half shafts
fit where the current freewheeling hubs are. (Think Monster
Garage) Hack off the rear hub mount, weld on hubs from front.
While your at it remember to move the spings enough to get the
half shafts into the Ex-Spair Tire bay (Future Motor/Battery bay).
This bay isn't part of the "structure" and if you're applying
(Lots of) power reinforcments will be needed.
It may be easier to build an entirely new rear twist beam, aluminum
of course. It would be nice to have hubs that could be disengaged
to keep from having to drag along and spin up all the hardware back
there all the time. Without being able to connect and disconnect
the rear driveline you may find that the "bleading edge" of the
Insights economy is dulled, making lean-burn very difficult, (or not?)
Any engineers car to speculate on the drag of an unpowered EV motor?
This is exactly what many of the performance hybrids will do...
If the stock sports car had a v6, the hybrid gets a 4 cylinder
up front and a few hunderead kW in the rear. But these will
probably have less battery capacity then the 1kWh on an Insight/Prius.
Unless the Prius can make big batteries and grid charging a
desired, no required part of the Hybrid Vehicles
L8r
Ryan
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
keith vansickle wrote:
Has anyone hacked the insight system to make a bipass
switch like someone has done for the prius?
This could be a route to add a pure-electric drive. I don't know how the
rear end is set up, but it might be possible to install a differential
and electric motor back there.
MES-DEA units are perfect for this - as you may know, the
gearbox, differential and the motor are already
integrated into one compact unit. Just add half-shafts
to the rear wheels of FWD car and you're done.
Examples:
http://www.metricmind.com/images/mot2.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/images/mot4.jpg
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Your file is attached.
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 09:10, keith vansickle wrote:
> has anyone hackd the insight system to make a bipass
> switch like someone has done for the prius?
Not possible. The electric motor on the insight can't turn without the
engine also turning.
>
> has anyone added more batteries or an aux motor to an
> insight?
Adding batteries is not practical, or even particularly useful.
At least one person has converted one to pure electric though.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
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Honda designed the IMA motor to fit withen the confines of the 4th
cylinder. The motor bolts to the block provideing the same mounting to
the tranny and the hub does the same providing a mount for the clutch.
I wonder if some one could squeeze a second IMA in there , move motor
a tad left and move tranny a couple inches right. I am waiting for some
insights to hit the wrecking yards to see if I can make a 4 rotor
electric motor :-)
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FWIW the Twike's pedals offer very little assist at 55 mph.
On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 06:32, Mark Hanson wrote:
> Are there any other Twike equivalent type vehicles out there (peddle assist at
> 55mph) that can be purchased that aren't an arm and a leg$$$?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
Or, as you've mentioned, power the rear wheels. Those MES-DEA
units look about right, as would perhaps a pair of E-Teks. But
the problem is that the rear suspension would need some major
modifications.
Easiest will be to use a rear axle from a compact RWD vehicle,
like those compact 4x4 Civic station wagons.
Still, a major issue to fit it under Insight, but better
that starting from scratch.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Some sizes, like 185/65R15 are on sale, down to $80 from the usual
$105-115.
FYI
Seth
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Chuck Hursch wrote:
> it appears that IUI (constant current bulk charge; then constant
> voltage as the amps taper off; then back to constant current as the
> voltage rises, with shutdown of the charger when dv/dt = 0 for an
> hour (I guess this last is called the "absorption phase") is the
> way to go for flooded 6V'ers (Trojan T125 or US125, or probably
> any floodeds.
Yes, it's a pretty good algorithm. IUI does not normally measure dv/dt;
it just shuts off after either a fixed time in the final I step, or when
the voltage in the final I step reaches some limit. Dv/dt is an
improvement on the basic IUI algorithm that turns off in the final I
step when the voltage stops rising. This improvement compensates for the
changes caused by aging or cold batteries.
> This morning I set up my Zivan K2 for IUI on my nearly 3 year old
> pack of Trojan T125s... what should I set the constant current too?
> I selected 2A.
Conventional wisdom is about 2% of the battery's amphour capacity. The
T125 is rated about 230ah, so that's 4.6 amps. In practice, 4-8 amps is
used (4 amps for new batteries, 8 amps for old ones).
> To get Lee's and others' 14.40V will probably be 3A or a little more.
> I doubt I want 3 hours of that every night.
If you set the current too low, then what you really have is a float
charger. It takes much longer (and more amphours) to reach full charge
this way.
Instead, you have to apply at least that 4-8 amps to get it over the
gassing voltage and into the region where it will finish charging and
equalize.
> I also have a couple of 12V gell cell batteries that I use for
> other stuff. The Japan Storage one is 15Ah, and the little brick
> guy is 2.2Ah. They're both rather old, getting along to about 5
> to 7 years now, but hey, they still work, and the 15Ah one runs
> the inverter for quite some time so I can have some light to work
> on the EV down in the carport. But the 6V/12V automatic charger
> dumps in the auto cycle before they're fully charged, I suspect,
> so I switch over into manual mode, which tapers off the current,
> but the voltage keeps rising too. From what I've read on the
> EVDL, 14.4V is as high as one wants to go (and age affects that
> too), but the charger in manual mode keeps going to 14.6...14.7V
> and up. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but gels want IU, right?
> I think it's going to take the variac and a soft touch to bring
> the batt to 14.4V or so, hold that, and just let the current
> taper off.
There is no hard and fast rule that you should never take a gel cell
over 14.4v. In fact, if you never do, you will never equalize it, and it
will probably suffer an early loss of capacity.
The key point with a gel cell (or AGM) is not to put excessive amphours
into it. You only want to put in about 110% of what you took out. But
since most chargers do not keep track of amphours, the battery
manufacturers just specify these low 'maximum' charging voltages as a
left-handed way to keep people from overcharging them.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Chuck Hursch wrote:
> My guess is that the E-meter (which I assume was wired to the
> battery and the serial port) provided the conduit for the event,
> completing the circuit through your serial port, which port isn't
> designed to handle such current.
Exactly. AC power went thru the bridge rectifier at the input of the
inverter, to the 12v battery negative, to the E-meter shunt, thru the
E-meter, out the E-meter's 'ground' pin of its RS-232 port, into the
PC's serial card, and to ground via the PC's AC cord ground pin. KABOOM!
I felt really stupid.
> In my case, assuming the Exeltech I'm interested in is one of
> these non-isolated inverters, then the place I would have to be
> careful is setting up that low-battery voltage gismo that would
> shut down the computer before the inverter shuts down - right?
> Best to be safe and go with an optical interface of some sort.
Right; or anything else that connects to the battery.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Ryan Bohm wrote:
> I'm building a tach unit using a Hall effect sensor and magnets...
> Just wondering if the shaft of the motor will get to hot for the
> PVC?
They use class H (180 deg. C) insulation in motors for a reason -- they
can easily get this hot. This will easily melt PVC plastic.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Mar 2004 at 9:41, Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
> List of exhibitors include the "Think" Car and something called the ' one
> liter car'. http://www.onelitercar.de/home.html.
The one liter car's name is Oscar, I guess. Oscar looks nice, though every
time I discuss tandem seating with friends they say it sounds annoying (who
wants to carry on a conversation over one's shoulder, they say).
Oscar has some friends (see below): Pinky (1989 Swiss TdS solar car), Chili
(grid-intertie solar, I think), Carol (a Mazda conversion), and Polo (a VW
conversion).
Check out Chili; he's less efficient, I guess, but I think I like him better
than Oscar. He has sexy but probably impractical gullwing doors. And some
room: "Im Innenraum ist Platz f�r drei Erwachsene, vier Getr�nkekisten und
einen Picknickkorb." ("In the interior there's room for 3 adults, 4 cases
of beer, and a picnic basket.") Still no clue what makes him go, other than
some nicad batteries.
http://www.akasol.de/include.php?inhalt=include/geschichte/chili.html
Oscar is the newest. His builders (Darmstadt Technical University students,
I think) call him a one liter car because he / it / whatever supposedly uses
the equivalent in energy to a liter of diesel fuel to go 100 km. Or maybe
the amount of electricity generated by burning that fuel in a power plant at
60% efficiency; I can't quite make out which.
This is an interesting project. Unfortunately Oscar's website is short on
specifics and long on generalities. (Just what kind of motor powers this
EV? I can't find the answer.) The website also appears to have not been
updated since late 2000, when the prototype was apparently built.
Wow, check out the long list of sponsors. They must have as many people
doing grantwriting as carrying out design.
Here's the group's main website with the other projects:
http://www.akasol.de/
AkaSol stands for Akademische Solartechnikgruppe Darmstadt E. V. (Darmstadt
Academic Solar Technology Group). Pretty impressive effort.
And what kind of EV R&D do we do at the big engineering school around here?
Not much, AFAIK. About 8 or 10 years ago, a bunch of EE students at the
University of Akron converted an elderly Toyota. They gave it a back seat
full of Trojan T-105s, and standard DC components from Bob Batson. It was a
thoroughly sound and practical conversion, but I daresay not especially
innovative.
I have no idea what's happened to that Toyota, BTW. I've met it exactly
once, in 1998, and by then the original builders had graduated and nobody
was left who knew anything about it.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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my thoughts were along the lines of moving the present
battery to the vacant seat next to me. (this car is my
long distance commuter and i never have any one with
me)thus giving me the whole rearend area to re build
with a rear drive axle and my old 8 in adc throw in 10
or 11 orbitals and a zilla so i have something that
will light up the tires and let folks know economy
cars dont have to be weak. I would still have a 50
mpg plus car too. this is a ways off because i still
have about 28000 miles on the Honda gaurentee but it
will only take a year or so to get to that point and
it will take me that long to plan what to do. thanks
for all the good ideas.
keith
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lightning Ryan wrote:
>
> > Or, as you've mentioned, power the rear wheels.
> Those MES-DEA
> > units look about right, as would perhaps a pair of
> E-Teks. But
> > the problem is that the rear suspension would need
> some major
> > modifications.
>
> Easiest will be to use a rear axle from a compact
> RWD vehicle,
> like those compact 4x4 Civic station wagons.
> Still, a major issue to fit it under Insight, but
> better
> that starting from scratch.
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
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--- Begin Message ---
This is what I did one time for a friend who wanted to battery power his amp
. Just look inside with a volt meter . The power supply will be a + and -
with the ground in the middle , . if its a 24v + 24v- then you will need 48
v battery pack with the center taped for the ground. When doing anything
like this I always start out putting some small light bulbs in line with
the batteries so if anything goes wrong the lights will light and maybe not
burn out the good stuff.
----- Original Message -----
From: "T Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
> You may not have time to complete this but,.....
>
> I would bet that all of te equipment that you are planning on
> running has power supplies that convert the incoming AC to DC.
> If you can bring an access point to that DC out to the case then
> you can directly connect the proper DC voltage and not have to
> worry about an inverter or hum. (I find it very difficult to get
> hum from a battery ;) )
>
>
> Stay Charged!
>
> Hump
>
>
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> >Behalf Of David (Battery Boy) Hawkins
> >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:09 PM
> >To: EV Discussion List
> >Subject: OT Help needed with inverter use and music equipment
> >
> >
> >All,
> >I've been helping with my son's high school drum-line
> competitions on
> >Saturdays, and as they plan for a trip to San Diego for a national
> >competition, one of the instructors mentioned needing a GAS
> generator for
> >remote practice locations. Since I suggested using an inverter
> and YT
> >battery(s), I'm now responsible for making it happen! So, after
> looking at
> >AC input specs on the equipment labels, the maximum power
> requirements are
> >500 watts total, consisting of a microphone mixer that mics some
> pit
> >equipment, an amplifier powering four small monitor speakers
> pointed at the
> >audience (they should be using speakers on stands), and a
> keyboard along
> >with it's own guitar style amplifier which also feeds into the
> mixer. In
> >fact, while asking questions about the equipment, I realized they
> could feed
> >the keyboard directly into the mixer, and point a small speaker
> at the
> >keyboard player to eliminate the guitar amplifier (60 watts). The
> pit
> >instructor said he had used an inverter in the past, but had some
> speaker
> >hum. Anyway, I was going to try using my cheap Coleman brand
> inverter (used
> >to power Xmas lights from the EV while towing the band float!) or
> my APC
> >brand computer UPS, just as a test, but I don't want to damage
> any school
> >equipment which would require a bake-sale to replace! So, has
> anyone powered
> >sound equipment from an inverter and battery(s)? Please e-mail me
> off-list
> >if you can help. Thanks for your time, Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
> Officer with the
> >Denver Electric Vehicle Council http://www.devc.org/ Card
> carrying member
> >and racer with The National Electric Drag Racing Association
> >http://www.nedra.com/ Lyons, CO 1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's,
> but with a
> >dead DCP controller the 15 year-old daughter isn't learning to
> drive yet!)
> >1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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PVC starts to soften at about 200 degrees F. by 250 degrees it is like
jello.
I wouldn't think the motor shaft would get up to 200 degrees in normal use,
so PVC should be fine.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre Blanchard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:11 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Motor shaft temperature
>
> If you go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and type "Shaft Collars" into the
> search box they have a selection of all types and materials.
> Or a good hardware store may have something.
> I do not think heat would be a problem for the PVC in normal driving. But
> cold and/or RPM may be a problem.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Bohm
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:52 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Motor shaft temperature
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm building a tach unit using a Hall effect sensor and magnets. I'm
> trying
> to figure out how to build a collar to fit on the motor shaft, and am
> thinking about using PVC pipe fittings in which the magnets will be
> embedded. Just wondering if the shaft of the motor will get to hot for
> the
> PVC? Any ideas or suggestions on how to build a better collar for the
> magnets?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> __________________________________
> www.evsource.com - 100% Electric!
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I think the biggest problem would come from cold. If you make the PVC
collar a good snug fit at shop temps 60�F to 70�F and then some winter night
it drops to -30�F, the collar would likely split.
Some info on thermal expansion coefficients of PVC and steel.
http://www.tangram.co.uk/TI-Thermal_Expansion_of_PVC-U.html
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Brandt
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:56 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Motor shaft temperature
PVC starts to soften at about 200 degrees F. by 250 degrees it is like
jello.
I wouldn't think the motor shaft would get up to 200 degrees in normal use,
so PVC should be fine.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andre Blanchard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:11 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Motor shaft temperature
>
> If you go to http://www.mcmaster.com/ and type "Shaft Collars" into the
> search box they have a selection of all types and materials.
> Or a good hardware store may have something.
> I do not think heat would be a problem for the PVC in normal driving. But
> cold and/or RPM may be a problem.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
<< snip >>
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>
> I am starting to think a controller with a 200A battery limit and 600+
> motor amps might be more fun if I got 144V or more.
>
This is what my t-rex'x are putting out and I'm running close to 240v , I
not sure about the 600 motor amps ( I don't think the controllers are
putting that out either) , the pick up is like a curtis 120v 400 amp
controller :-( and when you add the numbers the power out is about the same
, but with the higher volts the speed in any gear is 2x , , I know the
batteries are loving it .
Steve Clunn
> Incidentally, at full bore I was pulling 277 (ish) battery amps doing
> sliding around in the snow tonight... That's on a Curtis 1209B 400A
> nominal controller that was about 0C/32F.
>
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--- David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 17 Mar 2004 at 9:41, Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
>
> > List of exhibitors include the "Think" Car and
> something called the ' one
> > liter car'. http://www.onelitercar.de/home.html.
>
> The one liter car's name is Oscar, I guess.
right.
and 'Oscar' is supposed to stand for 'Open Source
Car', but I don't really see what is open source about
it since the web page has little information.
~fortunat
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