EV Digest 3438
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: New Maxwell ultracaps
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: OT: Re: 'ROO THE DAY
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Panasonic VRLA batteries savaged from the EV1 and S10E -the history-
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: 'ROO THE DAY
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT: Re: 'ROO THE DAY
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: OT: Re: 'ROO THE DAY
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Panasonic VRLA batteries savaged from the EV1 and S10E -the history-
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV Hovercraft
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Hovercraft (The Real EV Hovercraft ! )
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) What happened to those SAFT NiMH batteries
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: change zivan from 220 to 110 input?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 'ROO THE DAY
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) license plate frame recommendation
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: Design Theory
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Panasonic VRLA batteries savaged from the EV1 and S10E -the history-
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Panasonic VRLA batteries savaged from the EV1 and S10E -the history-
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: OTish: Re: EVLN(h2 Prius) - no ethanol, yes gridable
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: license plate frame recommendation
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Ampabout East
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New Car or Not
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) AUX contact on Albright
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) ACPropulsion combo on eBay RELISTED for $7500
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: OT: Design Theory
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: AUX contact on Albright
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) EV/AM Radio Noise
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
29) RE: EV/AM Radio Noise
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's what DC-DCs are for.
But I think it can be just a normal motor controller, concerned with
regulating motor current rather than voltage. The feedback to the PWM
would come from a current-measuring resistor in series with the motor,
and as long as the user holds the go-pedal in one position, the
controller ought to try to hold the motor current constant. It would
have to widen the duty-cycle as the capacitor discharges, but that
would be a response to compensate for reduced motor current; it
wouldn't be directly trying to hold voltage constant like a DC/DC
converter does.
=====
. _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__) | | \______________________________________________
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, this thread is back... (from about 2-3 weeks ago).
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > So sounds like maybe I should dial up to 4A or a little
better.
> > The charger's constant current cycle is set for 3 hours by
the
> > factory, and I don't know if there is way to change the
length of
> > time.
>
Lee Hart wrote:
> You're right; 3 hours is too long to just leave it. So I'd add
a timer
> to shut it off 30-60 minutes after the voltage reaches
2.50-2.55v/cell
> and the current falls to 4-8 amps.
I've been giving some thought to how I might start such a timer,
or better yet, something that looks for dv/dt = 0 in the final
`I' phase. Since the miles driven, etc. is somewhat variable
from one day to the next, I think it would be guess-and-by-gosh
to start a timer by hand at start-of-charge to shut the charger
off at some point in the middle of the night. So I contacted
Greg McCrea up in Sacramento, who sold me the charger, and he
indicated that the length of the final `I' was not changeable, as
in the Zivan NG series (I'll bet it is, but one has to know
how...). The final `I' mode is indicated by a yellow light
(led?) going on on the front of the charger. I wonder if it
would be possible to wire a relay into the led's circuit to
trigger whatever device (timer, etc.). There may already be some
sort of relay I could use, but if this is all sitting in some
dense circuit board, I'd probably better stay out of it. Then
there is something like Lee's photo-diode idea - would that work
here, I wonder? Any other ideas?
By the way, Greg doesn't seem to think that 30-60 minutes is long
enough for final `I', but gosh, if I do 8A for 3 hours, my
batteries are going to be quite hot, and just this phase alone
will be a good fraction of my total charge kwhs. The electric
car starts getting a lot less efficient.
>
Lee Hart wrote:
> All floodeds 'grow' as they age. If the case is unrestrained,
it can
> grow a lot. If the batteries are packed tightly, or have some
kind of
> restraint, they swell less. The swelling isn't supposed to
affect life,
> but there is some evidence that it may help life to restrain
the case to
> prevent it.
? on this. I know that lead sulfate expands as it crystallizes,
and as I recall, this is one way to trash a starter battery's
relatively thin plates by running it down, and especially leaving
it down. I have to wonder what causes the negative plates to
grow in our deep cycle batteries. I don't think I've seen yet
what that is. Could it be sulfation that builds up over time
(although the relatively non-growing positive plate also has lead
sulfate on it too, not just the negative plate), or is it some
other change in the plate structure that is going on? I know my
Trojans are bulging more than my first pack of US2300s did,
although I'm charging differently now (trying different things).
Chuck
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
http://nbeaa.org
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
31 foot Hummer with a 'Garage'
Be carefull, GM may offer you a job in marketing.
Anyhow, my father in law hangs out with the
'rich' motor home crowd. Some of the high end
motor homes have a 'garage' for their golf carts.
No kidding!
I think Mother Nature pulled a good April fools joke
today on NE Ohio, I have 1" of snow on the ground.
Rod
--- Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> re:
> > New SUV Carries a Surprising Load
> >
> > Just when you thought the SUV craze couldn't get
> any more overheated,
> > General Motors has upped the ante. Yesterday, at
> the annual
> > Copenhagen auto show, the company unveiled a
> prototype for a "DUV,"
>
> (assuming that this _is_ a leg-puller)
>
> ...the irony is that there DOES exist a mobile-home
> that carries around
> it's own "city car" ...it might be a one-off (I
> don't know for sure), but
> I've seen film of it on something like a Travel
> Channel "Stuff Really Rich
> People Have and You Don't" show...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Me too.
--- David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jeff, I am in the Phx area and would love to stop over and check out
> your
> battery pile. Am interested in starting a pile myself (another). How
> about
> emailing me some contact info and good times for making a connection?
> Regards, David Chapman.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 1:46 PM
> Subject: Panasonic VRLA batteries savaged from the EV1 and S10E -the
> history-
=====
. _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__) | | \______________________________________________
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've often thought that with a ramp, I COULD put my sparrow in the back
of a hummer. What's the hight inside there?
-Jamie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 2:30 PM
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Zappylist; toyota-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: 'ROO THE DAY
>
> New SUV Carries a Surprising Load
>
> Just when you thought the SUV craze couldn't get any more overheated,
> General Motors has upped the ante. Yesterday, at the annual
> Copenhagen auto show, the company unveiled a prototype for a "DUV,"
> or dual utility vehicle, dubbed the Kangaroo. Not only would the
> vehicle be the largest SUV on the market -- 31 feet long, and
> weighing half again as much as a Hummer H2 -- it would be the first
> personal vehicle ever designed as both a means of transport and a
> garage. Hard to believe, but the Kangaroo is designed to carry a
> spare vehicle inside it: a small, nimble two-seater electric car
> called the Joey, which is loaded and unloaded via a retractable ramp.
> On vacations, the company said, the Joey could be used for navigating
> narrow city streets or "sport driving," while the Kangaroo could
> carry the luggage for the long haul. According to GM, the Kangaroo
> and Joey would be "an unbeatable one-two punch for families that want
> the luxury of a large car with the convenience of a small one."
>
> straight to the source: Detroit Free Press, Joseph Fatone, 01 Apr
2004
> <http://www.gristmagazine.com/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=2244>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I once saw a 32' 5th wheel that the fellow had mounted backwards on an
International truck and he had a hydraulic platform underneath the overhang
where he parked his little Geo Tracker or somesuch. He just drove it on the
platform, hit the button and it tucked the dinghy up and awaaayyy he went.
He had a pretty impressive solar array too. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Re: 'ROO THE DAY
> 31 foot Hummer with a 'Garage'
> Be carefull, GM may offer you a job in marketing.
> Anyhow, my father in law hangs out with the
> 'rich' motor home crowd. Some of the high end
> motor homes have a 'garage' for their golf carts.
> No kidding!
> I think Mother Nature pulled a good April fools joke
> today on NE Ohio, I have 1" of snow on the ground.
> Rod
>
> --- Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > re:
> > > New SUV Carries a Surprising Load
> > >
> > > Just when you thought the SUV craze couldn't get
> > any more overheated,
> > > General Motors has upped the ante. Yesterday, at
> > the annual
> > > Copenhagen auto show, the company unveiled a
> > prototype for a "DUV,"
> >
> > (assuming that this _is_ a leg-puller)
> >
> > ...the irony is that there DOES exist a mobile-home
> > that carries around
> > it's own "city car" ...it might be a one-off (I
> > don't know for sure), but
> > I've seen film of it on something like a Travel
> > Channel "Stuff Really Rich
> > People Have and You Don't" show...
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I once saw a 32' 5th wheel that the fellow had mounted backwards on an
> International truck and he had a hydraulic platform underneath the overhang
> where he parked his little Geo Tracker or somesuch.
well, to drag this somewhere back into the neighborhood of on topic, this
may be a high-profile nitche market that can be used to spearhead
commercial development of independant EV manufacturers
the blinding advantage the EVs have over ICEs as on-board "city cars" is
the ability to configure them in a far wider range of possible geometries
(compactability is a prime concern - hey, there's the marketing angle: it's
just like the lunar rover that folded up to stow in the LEM... it's a
reference not lost on the generation who owns the majority of these
high-end RVs)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think right now every man, woman and child who has an EV is contacting
these guys. 600 cars times 26 batteries each is....
Well, a lot of batteries.
That said, it is an interesting thought: A pack of NiMH batteries would
be interesting. I'd even consider giving up the back seat for something
like that.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I once attended a show, where a 'mad scientist' had
> a clown for his
> assistant "Igor". It was to teach elementary school
> kids about basic
> science and physics.
>
> One of the gimmicks was an 'air car' that consisted
> of an inflated car
> inner tube, with a sheet of plywood strapped on top,
> and a 12v car
> blower motor blowing air underneath. Sure enough, it
> flew, even with the
> clown on board!
I've help build and design( structural) several
hovercraft and an EV hovercraft is possible as you
saw.
Once on the bubble it has almost no resistance so
moves with little power needed like a 1/2 hp fan
could get you going faster than you should go.
And they take little power to lift off, a 1/4 hp
4 psi blower could easily raise 300 lbs of batt and
clown.
But only on a flat, hard surface. Go on the water
or even grass and forward drag goes way up.
Once you hit the road, because of the crown you
will slide off without a lot of power and steering to
keep you on it.
For many reasons I don't recomend hovercraft like
the dirt they kick up, hard to control, ect but they
have their place doing things nothing else can. They
are best on water.
A favorite way to move heavy machinery like 50-200
tons presses are hoverpads. Basicly steel air chambers
open on the bottom fed pressurized air under the
machine's feet so 1 person could move 100 tons like it
was floating on water.
And by far the best way to suspend a 300 mph train
EV. No rolling drag, noise, wear making a train that
weighs only 12,000lbs per 40' car.
With just a simple very low power fan you
eliminate all those coils, magnets, controls or
wheels, weight and cost. Fan power would be about 1%
of drive power.
jerry dycus
>
> They ran it from a battery charger thru a cord,
> mainly to keep it
> tethered so it didn't wander too far away. But, I
> can readily imagine
> having a 12v battery on board. If the heater blower
> takes 10 amps, and
> you have a 100ah battery, it could run for 10 hours.
> On a nice windy day
> (wind speed over 10 mph, such a contraption *could*
> cover 100 miles in a
> day! :-)
>
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people
> can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"
> -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thursday, April 01, 2004 1:03 PM, Chuck Hursch
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yes, this thread is back... (from about 2-3 weeks ago).
2-3 weeks is an eternity! ;^>
Can you refresh our memory as to what model Zivan you are using (I
infer it is not from the NG series)?
> I've been giving some thought to how I might start such a timer,
> or better yet, something that looks for dv/dt = 0 in the final
> `I' phase.
> The final `I' mode is indicated by a yellow light
> (led?) going on on the front of the charger. I wonder if it
> would be possible to wire a relay into the led's circuit to
> trigger whatever device (timer, etc.). There may already be some
> sort of relay I could use, but if this is all sitting in some
> dense circuit board, I'd probably better stay out of it.
The NG's have a 5-pin DIN connector that allows the connection of a
remote tri-colour LED and/or optional temperature sensor; if your
charger has a similar connector, then you may be able to get access
to the yellow LED signal without opening the box.
If yours is also a tri-colour LED, be aware that if there are only 2
connections to the LED then yellow is achieved by lighting the red
and green LEDs together (or alternately blinking them, etc.). It is
not a simple on/off signal you can use directly.
> Then
> there is something like Lee's photo-diode idea - would that work
> here, I wonder? Any other ideas?
If the yellow LED is on its own, this could be straightforward, but
if it is a tri-colour LED like the NG's, then your photo-dectector
would not only have to distinguish between lit and un-lit, but
between red and yellow (and may have to ignore flashing red).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check it out! battery powered, works on land and water, no fuel cell.
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3000601
http://www.taiyoedge.com/help/docs.htm
7-8 minute NiCD runtime, 9-13 minute NiMH runtime,
Wonder what it would do with some lithium onboard?
L8r
Ryan
Mark Hanson wrote:
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So whatever happened to those SAFT battery packs that were on Ebay
awhile back? Anyone ever get them to work, or were they $8k boondoggles?
*curious*
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > elaine chiu wrote:
> >
> >>is it possible to change the zivan input myself, or does the dealer
> >>have to do this, too?
> >>
> >>ideally, I'd like to be able to switch it back and forth. Is that too
> >>difficult?
> >>
> >>elaine
> >>
> >>(still plotting for charging at work on my next EV.)
> >
> > Dealer support... dealer adjustable???? Dual voltage input from Zivan???
> > This explains why I have such a good market...
> > All these features are Base line feature items on a Manzanita Micro PFC
> > charger.
>
> Same for BRUSA chargers - all user adjustable, and more universal and
> flexible than Zivan or PFC chargers. Just one more option on the market
> to consider.
>
> BUT,
>
> Looking at Watt/Dollar ratio, nothing really beats Rich's PFC chargers!
> This ones are ideal for main stream conversions. I have one too!
> Keep it up Rich!
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
Thanks for the Plug Victor.
I will be in the area in about another week... Time for some Bs?
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Garage trailers exist. Some friends have one. They are popular with people
with motorcycles, street rods, Jeeps, sand rails, and/or ATVs.
Check out
http://www.a1warriortrailers.com/Data%20Files/cl-images/cl-gallery.htm
for a current model.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lonnie Borntreger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Evlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: Re: 'ROO THE DAY
> OK. You got me. I believed it.
>
> On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 14:30, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > New SUV Carries a Surprising Load
> >
> > Just when you thought the SUV craze couldn't get any more overheated,
> > General Motors has upped the ante. Yesterday, at the annual
> > Copenhagen auto show, the company unveiled a prototype for a "DUV,"
> > or dual utility vehicle, dubbed the Kangaroo. Not only would the
> > vehicle be the largest SUV on the market -- 31 feet long, and
> > weighing half again as much as a Hummer H2 -- it would be the first
> > personal vehicle ever designed as both a means of transport and a
> > garage. Hard to believe, but the Kangaroo is designed to carry a
> > spare vehicle inside it: a small, nimble two-seater electric car
> > called the Joey, which is loaded and unloaded via a retractable ramp.
> > On vacations, the company said, the Joey could be used for navigating
> > narrow city streets or "sport driving," while the Kangaroo could
> > carry the luggage for the long haul. According to GM, the Kangaroo
> > and Joey would be "an unbeatable one-two punch for families that want
> > the luxury of a large car with the convenience of a small one."
> >
> > straight to the source: Detroit Free Press, Joseph Fatone, 01 Apr 2004
> > <http://www.gristmagazine.com/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=2244>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe someone like john wayland could get a license plate frame that reads
46 horsepower
wanna race ?
happy april fools everyone
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought that many on the EVDL might find value in this.
When building or modifying vehicles or machines, I have always stuck to the
"less is more" theory. This article has certainly reinforced this concept
for me.
This is the best overview of design theory I have ever read.
It is sort of long, but I am hoping you all enjoy it as much as I have.
There is a lot of scientific, classic literature, and art references in the
article, but even folks without exposure to these areas should be able to
grasp the basic ideas.
Enjoy!
http://www.geocities.com/roysterothc/taste_for_makers.htm
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for information
and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume the subject is supposed to be "salvaged." Or maybe not. <g>
One note of caution on these batteries. Don't make the mistake of designing
an EV around them! Unless you plan to buy enough to last you the life of the
vehicle, and somehow store them until you need them (not easy with lead
batteries), most likely you won't be using batteries like these forever. Ask
anyone here who designed battery boxes for the surplus Delphi 8-volt
batteries what happened when it came time for replacement.
Also, are the NiMH batteries Panasonic or Ovonics? Based on what I've
heard and read, if they're Ovonics brand, a "10 year" life for them is probably
rather optimistic. Again, ask the NiMH Solectria Force owners who have
experienced failures of Ovonics modules no longer made, and faced down the
staggering cost of having to replace the entire pack.
DR
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Excellent points David. These are an exceedingly odd form factor and as was
mentioned by another member they have time and cycles on the packs. So the
Ahr capacity is going to be diminished by some factor from the new 60 Ahr
spec. And at 45+ ea with shipping? I hope to get over and take a look soon,
might just buy a couple as samples first to test cycle and see what they
look like and compare with my Delphi 12s. Darn I need some big surplus Saft
Ni-cads. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:36 AM
Subject: Re: Panasonic VRLA batteries savaged from the EV1 and S10E -the
history-
> I assume the subject is supposed to be "salvaged." Or maybe not. <g>
>
> One note of caution on these batteries. Don't make the mistake of
designing
> an EV around them! Unless you plan to buy enough to last you the life of
the
> vehicle, and somehow store them until you need them (not easy with lead
> batteries), most likely you won't be using batteries like these forever.
Ask
> anyone here who designed battery boxes for the surplus Delphi 8-volt
> batteries what happened when it came time for replacement.
>
> Also, are the NiMH batteries Panasonic or Ovonics? Based on what I've
> heard and read, if they're Ovonics brand, a "10 year" life for them is
probably
> rather optimistic. Again, ask the NiMH Solectria Force owners who have
> experienced failures of Ovonics modules no longer made, and faced down the
> staggering cost of having to replace the entire pack.
>
> DR
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ben,
Being a student at UNSW, I assume that you live in Sydney.
As you know, most of our electricity in NSW comes from coal fired power
stations.
Luckily, NSW coal is amongst the highest quality coal in the world,
which makes it considerably cleaner to burn than the filthy brown stuff
they have in Victoria.
Anyway, state rivalry aside, comparing a typical EV (whatever that is
:-) charged from coal powered electricity to a typical ICE car:
EV produces 50% to 80% of the CO2 of the ICE car per km.
EV produces insignificant amount of everything else compared to the ICE
car (Nitrogen and Sulphur compounds, particulates etc)
Coal IS dirty, but burning it under ideal fuel/oxygen/temp conditions
and passing the output through massive filtration equipment reduces the
pollution output to "4/5ths of bugger all" - quote from senior engineer
at Bayswater Power Station, Hunter Valley :-)
Also, in Sydney, you have the option to buy green power.
For example, check out Integral Energy's renewable options:
http://www.integral.com.au/index.cfm?objectId=D2180FDF-5642-4055-98F5048
4D375A5E9
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 2 April 2004 5:42 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OTish: Re: EVLN(h2 Prius) - no ethanol, yes gridable
ben wrote:
>
> The problem is where is all this electricity going to come from ??
Coal
> fired power plants:)
It will depend on where you live (and how pro-active you are).
Coal-fired plants is probably the worst case scenario. You might also
live in an area where hydro, nuclear, or some other power source
supplies most of your electricity. You may also have the option of
buying 'green' power, or of installing your own solar or wind generator.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EVlist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:53 AM
Subject: license plate frame recommendation
> Maybe someone like john wayland could get a license plate frame that
reads
>
> 46 horsepower
>
> wanna race ?
>
Or 20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] volts
Fast E'nuf!
As ya cruise down the Turnpike@ 70-75, gotten some thumbs up with this
one!
Bob
> happy april fools everyone, plus one
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Hi All;
483 miles? Yeah, not very far to Jet Blue or Amtrak, but that's what has
clocked in , in the last week of drivin/ Electric. Were into a new EV
"season" here in CT. All the snow has melted! At LAST! No more drifts hiding
in the shadows, Gone, Gone!
Rolled out the Rabbit, with a mixed bag of used T 105's as my T 145's are
out and awaiting a new life in any Electrac that I get up and running, gave
about half of them to one of the Electrac Listers for his 'trac. Sooo to
keep going, put some lightly used T 105's from BEFORE I had the last pack of
T 145's. Can ya say EV driving is good for your upper muscle strength?
Horsing these in and out?<g>! So, a "Dogs Breakfast" of T 105's and , last
Thursday, off to the Train. Had been using the car for 5 and 10 mile very
local jaunts into town, the trips that an ICE mobile doesn't even warm up
on, felt I had enough juice to venture out on the Turnpike. Did my 400 amp
on ramp launch.Feh! Too much voltage sag, but a respectable 60 at the get
go, into the right lane. Gees! I don't remember it struggling to get much
over 60mph. Sigh! Well. lets worry about getting there! Running slow, but
pulled into the train yard with little time to spare, noticed a 'Sulfery"
smell, but didn't have time to meter out the cells, or batteries one at a
time. Plugerin! Crank the Variac up to 15 amps and run.
7 hours later , came back, to go home, Hmmm? nice and juicy? 145 or so
volts, it's a 120 volt car. Looks good, flip on the heater, roll up the
'stench cords and lets go! Nice and warm, already, gotta love those ceramic@
20 amp heaters. Now for the real pull, getting home and the 450 foot climb
home. Doesn't EVERY EVer live at the top of a hill?20 miles into my
[EMAIL PROTECTED] with a 15 volt sag, I knew I wasn't getting all I paid for with
the batteries. Got off at my exit for the Long Pull up the two laner to
home. OK I'm loosing it! Dropping to 90 volts under load! BUT if ya shut off
it comes back to about 110 v. OK batteries are shot?! The hell with it!
DRIVE it home, anyhow! Limped up the driveway@ about 60 volts. Into the
garage, shut off the tunes and keyed out. Hissss! Sissle! Wow! I've got some
Trojan Teakettles! Do I EVer! This is a classic example of what happens when
you have some wimpy cells. Got out the meter, hell, I didn't need the meter!
Found 3 smokin' batteries, all easy to get to, so put it on charge, as well
as 3 spares on the garage floor. Went to bed, done for the nite. At AM
everything was nice and juicy, floating @ 150 volts. Time for the
Transplant, put 3 good, I think , batteries in and did a quick run to the
store. Wow! Very little voltage sag, Gotta go fur work. Warmed things up
awile with my famous, " Little Blue Box" directly across both legs of the
120 volt service drop to the house, 30 amp starting rate. An hour later off
to the turnpike and train. Wow! Cruising@ 117 volts@ 150 amps, VERY little
sag, enjoying all the soldered terminal wires and connections. Wheee!
Passing a few ICE mobiles EVen! Stopping, feeling around for hot spots.
None, like the cables were dead. Oh Joy! no losses here. Cruise into the RR
yard, with 120 volts on the meter, no 110 stuff! Plugged her in, cranked the
variac all the way on, soft outlet there, plus my 'Metered" 'stench cords.
You pre Manzanita Micro days guy hear me now? Special note to Rich: I want
to upgrade too. Wouldya stuff a green box for me? Talk to ya off List later
on.A PFC 20 would fit nice in the Rabbit. Anyhow back to the story. Training
done, back in 7 hours, voltage up again, off I go, nivce solid pack, go up
the hills@ a respectable 110 volts, EVen with the heat on! Roll into the
garage with a solid 110 volts! Yea! A good pack, a mix and match one, but
the 400 plus miles, it's still hanging in there, when I have a bad battery I
KNOW it real quick. I hafta hammer the batteries, with this commute. But for
a guy with a 10 mile commute, the ' lectric is just the ticket. As I
plugitin, I think of our" Friends" Over There, that murdered 3000 of our
people, dragged their carcusses through the streets of Bagdad, or wherever
in that stinking piece of real estate, that had a Regime Change of late.
Readers Discust (Digest)? I saved a buncha more than your silly " Save A
Gallon" thing ya hit me with last week. BTW they never responded to my Pro
EV note. They won't I'm sure, but felt better getting it off my chest. Hope
a few others followed that link I posted. I havent forgotten their "EV's
Forgetaboutit" article.
Bottom line, at least, if ya havent hit "Delete"already, is that EV's
work, like sailboats, they require a bit more from the skipper than a
Diseasel Chris Craft, but it is worth it, but yur doing a good thing for USA
or where EVer you live. I hope to inspire you folks just thinking of taking
the plunge. We're here for you, don't go it alone, unListed.
Seeya, on the Hiway
Bob
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True, but the plan that I had (taking delivery of a new ICE vehicle
with the engine already removed by the dealer, and doing a well-
documented conversion to BEV) fits within both the letter and
spirit of the rules. If you plan to have the car out of the US for any
length of time, or will "manufacture" the car in your basement,
then it's best to get legal advice first. But I would be confident that
my "0-mile" conversion would qualify, and confident that a judge
(NOT the IRS--they don't make the final ruling) would agree that
I met both the letter and spirit of the law (to get more electric cars
on the road), and that I did not "cheat" in any way (i.e. I didn't claim
that my Prius would be driven in electric-mode only, and then drive
it home that evening in hybrid mode, nor did I try to take a tax credit
on an EV that my cousins in Germany bought for their own use).
The IRS could take that defeat and write rules specifically forbidding
home conversions (though I would have a court precedent to fight that
with), but it's not like there are any factory electric vehicles I could buy
right now anyway.
Tim
-----------
Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 15:27:33 -0800
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New Car or Not
Straight forward?? When was last time you saw anything
IRS published being straight forward (i.e. not allowing conflicting
interpretations)?
<big snip>
Of course, this above is extreme, but you get the point -
you can practically ALWAYS do what you want and find a
clever way to explain later why you interpreted the law
this way.
Doesn't mean IRS will buy it, but I'm sure many are
taking chances, and it is not cheating. It's
"aggressive stretching".
_________________________________________________________________
Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for information
and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp
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Hi all,
Is adding the AUX contact to an Albright SW200 contactor a simple bolt on
modification? I was inquiring at one supplier, and they stated that the SW200 must
come with the AUX contact, since the top plate is different, and a linkage is
required. Is this true, or are the mods very simple (a little dremel and you're good
to go)?
Later,
Darin Gilbert
Bad Fish Racing
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Relisted for $7500.00, by the way.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2471368330
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:42 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: ACPropulsion combo on eBay
So, who on the EVDL is selling this sweet setup:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2469007748
?
The current and voltage range would be a perfect match to 100 of
Edan.com.tw 's
100Ah cells (5C peak/1.5C constant), but that pack would cost $17,500
*before*
BMS and charger, and this item just got listed at $10K, so it's all too
rich
for *my* blood.
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Roy LeMeur wrote:
> I thought that many on the EVDL might find value in this.
> This is the best overview of design theory I have ever read.
> http://www.geocities.com/roysterothc/taste_for_makers.htm
> Enjoy!
Really excellent! Thanks, Roy. There is a lot here that applies directly
to EVs.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Is adding the AUX contact to an Albright SW200 contactor a simple bolt on
> modification? I was inquiring at one supplier, and they stated that the SW200 must
> come with the AUX contact, since the top plate is different, and a linkage is
> required. Is this true, or are the mods very simple (a little dremel and you're
> good to go)?
Clearly, it's just an add-on part for the factory. There's a molded in
recess for the switch even on contactors that don't have it. But, will
they sell you just the switch? Is it some industry-standard part, or a
special that they had made just for them? I don't know.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Chuck Hursch wrote:
> I've been giving some thought to how I might start such a timer,
> or better yet, something that looks for dv/dt = 0 in the final
> `I' phase... The final `I' mode is indicated by a yellow light
> (led?) going on on the front of the charger. I wonder if it
> would be possible to wire a relay into the led's circuit to
> trigger whatever device (timer, etc.).
Ideally, the yellow LED's signal comes out on a connector (as someone
posted). In that case, it would be straightforward to use this signal to
start a timer. Yuu can buy time-delay relays off-the-shelf that would
shut off the charger's power a set time after the yellow LED signal
comes on.
Failing this, you could put a light sensor on the yellow LED and detect
when it lights. As others indicated, this would be a challenge if it's
the same LED, but just changes color to indicate the mode.
Phototransistors (or photodarlington transistors) are quite sensitive,
and could easily be used. They are most sensitive to infrared, still
very sensitive to red, and progressively less sensitive as you go up the
spectrum to orange, yellow, green, and blue light. You could add a
filter to make them only respond to yellow if needed.
Photoresistors are less sensitive, but have a peak sensitivity more like
the human eye, at yellow-green light.
LEDs also work as light detectors. They have an extremely narrow color
response that matches the color they produce as an LED. Thus, a yellow
LED only generates current in response to yellow light. However, the
junction is so tiny that only a tiny amount of current is produced; you
need an opamp or other high-gain amplifier to detect it.
> Any other ideas?
Detecting dv/dt is an interesting alternative. Anderson Power Products
had a clever way to do it. They had a large electrolytic capacitor,
charged thru a resistor from the batteries. An opamp watched the voltage
across that resistor. When the voltage fell below a threshold, the dv/dt
was below a limit. The opamp output changed states, and could be used to
shut off the charger.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Recently installed a nice stereo (Alpine 9803) in my Electrica. No complaints with CD
sound quality. FM is OK. AM, however, is terrible, and the noise directly correlates
with how hard I'm pressing the accellerator.
This must be radio interference generated by either the controller (1221C), or the
motor. Most likely the motor, since it's so close to the radio.
Any of you have this problem? I haven't seen any discussion about it. Solutions,
ideas? (Noise filter?)
If I ever add an XM receiver, am I likely to have the same problem. (What frequency
does satellite radio use?)
Richard Kelly
1981 Jet Electrica
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html)
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Well, I have decided quality AM radio is impossible in most conversions. The
controllers/charger/DC-DC converters and wiring used in EV's generate a lot of noise
from alot of different areas. I suppose you could design a RF reduced EV, but it
would be quite costly.
I have had some luck putting a band pass filter in line with the antenna input
(available from radioshack catalog-not in stores). I still get hisssing but can
listen to strong staions if I turn the treble down and the base up (tuning out the
high frequency audio).
My solution has been to listen to books on CD/FM in the civic. Sattilite radio uses
digital transmission and should be unaffected by EV noise. I have also had good luck
using ham radio FM (70cm, 2m, and 10 M) in the car. SSB and AM can only be used when
parked (and even then the DC DC gives some noise)
If you only have one station you want to listen to, you may be able to build a notch
filter to permit only a very narrow frequency to enter the radio, but would mess up
your FM reception.
Lynn Adams
KE2EN
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EV/AM Radio Noise
Recently installed a nice stereo (Alpine 9803) in my Electrica. No complaints with CD
sound quality. FM is OK. AM, however, is terrible, and the noise directly correlates
with how hard I'm pressing the accellerator.
This must be radio interference generated by either the controller (1221C), or the
motor. Most likely the motor, since it's so close to the radio.
Any of you have this problem? I haven't seen any discussion about it. Solutions,
ideas? (Noise filter?)
If I ever add an XM receiver, am I likely to have the same problem. (What frequency
does satellite radio use?)
Richard Kelly
1981 Jet Electrica
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html)
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