EV Digest 3439
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV/AM Radio Noise
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: AUX contact on Albright
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) NBEAA meeting (April 10, 2004, 10am-12noon) announcement
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EV/AM Radio Noise
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) RE: EV/AM Radio Noise
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN, now Nimh & Nicd Self Discharge Rates
by James H Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT: Design Theory
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) OT: Was RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Was RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ACPropulsion combo on eBay RELISTED for $7500
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Was RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV/AM Radio Noise
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV/AM Radio Noise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) color LEDs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV/AM Radio Noise
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Was RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: color LEDs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: color LEDs
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Panasonic VRLA batteries savaged from the EV1 and S10E -the
history-
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) What happen to my car
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: OTish: Re: EVLN(h2 Prius) - no ethanol, yes gridable
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: change zivan from 220 to 110 input?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: What happen to my car
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Your experience is typical. My Ranger conversion had that problem, too. I
never got around to trying to correct
the problem since I only listened to CDs.
This has been discussed at length in the past.
As I recall there were ways discussed to reduce the problem but not how to
eliminate it completely.
Tom Shay former owner of Ranger conversion.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 12:50 PM
Subject: EV/AM Radio Noise
> Recently installed a nice stereo (Alpine 9803) in my Electrica. No
complaints with CD sound quality. FM is OK. AM, however, is terrible, and
the noise directly correlates with how hard I'm pressing the accellerator.
>
> This must be radio interference generated by either the controller
(1221C), or the motor. Most likely the motor, since it's so close to the
radio.
>
> Any of you have this problem? I haven't seen any discussion about it.
Solutions, ideas? (Noise filter?)
>
> If I ever add an XM receiver, am I likely to have the same problem. (What
frequency does satellite radio use?)
>
> Richard Kelly
> 1981 Jet Electrica
> (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can't make a filter that responds only to yellow. Yellow light is
red and green together. You would have to double your circuit, have two
filter-phototransistor setups, one for red and one for green. When both
are activated, you know you have yellow light.
>
> Phototransistors (or photodarlington transistors) are quite sensitive,
> and could easily be used. They are most sensitive to infrared, still
> very sensitive to red, and progressively less sensitive as you go up
the
> spectrum to orange, yellow, green, and blue light. You could add a
> filter to make them only respond to yellow if needed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:06 PM -0800 4-2-04, Lee Hart wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is adding the AUX contact to an Albright SW200 contactor a simple
bolt on modification? I was inquiring at one supplier, and they
stated that the SW200 must come with the AUX contact, since the top
plate is different, and a linkage is required. Is this true, or
are the mods very simple (a little dremel and you're good to go)?
Clearly, it's just an add-on part for the factory. There's a molded in
recess for the switch even on contactors that don't have it. But, will
they sell you just the switch? Is it some industry-standard part, or a
special that they had made just for them? I don't know.
Yes, they can be had though sometimes they are hard to find.
EV Parts lists them here:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=&product_id=3325
But don't be surprised if there is a lead time.
I have added them to contactors, it requires a drill to finish
drilling out the hole for the pin in the contactor cap. Also, I used
a tap to give a easier start to the threaded inserts since they
didn't want to go in without help.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Zilla controllers in production, see them here.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The April meeting of the North Bay Chapter of the
Electric Auto Association will be held on Saturday
April 10th from 10am - 12 noon at Calpine Geothermal
Visitor Center, 15500 Central Park Road, Middletown,
CA 95461.
In celebration of the 40th anniversary of commercial
geothermal power generation in the United States,
the Calpine Geothermal Visitor Center was established
in May, 2001. The $2.8 million, 6,500 square foot
facility is located in Middletown, California, just
north of the famous Napa Valley wine region.
Our featured speakers will be Fred Cork, Process
Engineer for Calpine Corporation and Ralph Frick
of Frick Engineering. They will be discussing the
19 geothermal power plants at The Geysers, each one
producing renewable "green" energy and which,
in combination, produce enough electricity to power
the North Bay!
Location:
Calpine Geysers Visitors Center,
15500 Central Park Road, Middletown, CA.
Date: 10th April from 10am-12 noon
Contacts: Fred Cork,
Process Engineer,
Calpine Corporation, Geysers.
(707) 431-6143
(707) 431-6109 (fax)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sandy Tucker,
Director, Geysers Visitors Center.
(707) 987-4271
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.geysers.com
1-866-GEYSERS, or 707-987-4270
Driving directions:
Central Park Road is on the West side of I-29
as it enters Middletown (in Lake County) from
the South. I-29 joins Calistoga to Clearlake
and Lower Lake.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
http://nbeaa.org
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/bizcard.bmp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Chuck Hursch wrote:
> > I've been giving some thought to how I might start such a
timer,
> > or better yet, something that looks for dv/dt = 0 in the
final
> > `I' phase... The final `I' mode is indicated by a yellow
light
> > (led?) going on on the front of the charger. I wonder if it
> > would be possible to wire a relay into the led's circuit to
> > trigger whatever device (timer, etc.).
>
Lee Hart wrote:
> Ideally, the yellow LED's signal comes out on a connector (as
someone
> posted). In that case, it would be straightforward to use this
signal to
> start a timer. Yuu can buy time-delay relays off-the-shelf that
would
> shut off the charger's power a set time after the yellow LED
signal
> comes on.
I think it was Roger that wondered which Zivan it was. It is a
K2 120V model. Three separate lights across the front of the
charger, presumably each an LED. The red one on the right is for
bulk charge (first `I', sort of - it slowly drops about an amp
through the bulk charge phase) and constant voltage (`U'), and
then the red and yellow both light up for the last `I', which is
the 3-hr constant current phase. Once that is done, yellow and
green come on and the charger shuts off (but is draining about
0.1A from the pack, for what I don't know - to run the lights?;
unplug (from AC) the charger and the drain goes to 0). I suspect
these colored lights are just white leds with colored filters
over them. There is no separate connector to this charger, just
the DC charge wires, AC power in, and three teensy-weensy little
adjustment screws (max current, gassing voltage, and gassing
current) way down in the box. (I have sometimes thought about
trying to put some decent adjustment knobs in, or at least screws
that aren't so small and have wider slots, and come out to the
edge of the box, but that would probably require replacing the
pots themselves.)
Thanks,
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like digital radio might be out of the problem area...
AM radio - 535 kilohertz to 1.7 megahertz
FM radio - 88 megahertz to 108 megahertz
Sirius and XM are in the 2.3 gigahertz range
The Curtis operates at 1.5/15 KHz switch frequency operation, well below AM.
I don't know about my DCP DC-300 DC-DC Converter. Probably similar to the Curtis.
You mention the charger, but that wouldn't be a problem while driving, right?
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Adams, Lynn
Well, I have decided quality AM radio is impossible in most conversions. The
controllers/charger/DC-DC converters and wiring used in EV's generate a lot of noise
from alot of different areas. I suppose you could design a RF reduced EV, but it
would be quite costly.
I have had some luck putting a band pass filter in line with the antenna input
(available from radioshack catalog-not in stores). I still get hisssing but can
listen to strong staions if I turn the treble down and the base up (tuning out the
high frequency audio).
My solution has been to listen to books on CD/FM in the civic. Sattilite radio uses
digital transmission and should be unaffected by EV noise. I have also had good luck
using ham radio FM (70cm, 2m, and 10 M) in the car. SSB and AM can only be used when
parked (and even then the DC DC gives some noise)
If you only have one station you want to listen to, you may be able to build a notch
filter to permit only a very narrow frequency to enter the radio, but would mess up
your FM reception.
Lynn Adams
KE2EN
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EV/AM Radio Noise
Recently installed a nice stereo (Alpine 9803) in my Electrica. No complaints with CD
sound quality. FM is OK. AM, however, is terrible, and the noise directly correlates
with how hard I'm pressing the accellerator.
This must be radio interference generated by either the controller (1221C), or the
motor. Most likely the motor, since it's so close to the radio.
Any of you have this problem? I haven't seen any discussion about it. Solutions,
ideas? (Noise filter?)
If I ever add an XM receiver, am I likely to have the same problem. (What frequency
does satellite radio use?)
Richard Kelly
1981 Jet Electrica
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frequency really doesn't matter. AM is the problem. I have seen RFI in the EV every
where from 3KHz to 800 Mhz. The problem is AM (amplitude modulation). FM and Digital
are inherently immune to this kind of RFI
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 4:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: EV/AM Radio Noise
Looks like digital radio might be out of the problem area...
AM radio - 535 kilohertz to 1.7 megahertz
FM radio - 88 megahertz to 108 megahertz
Sirius and XM are in the 2.3 gigahertz range
The Curtis operates at 1.5/15 KHz switch frequency operation, well below AM.
I don't know about my DCP DC-300 DC-DC Converter. Probably similar to the Curtis.
You mention the charger, but that wouldn't be a problem while driving, right?
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Adams, Lynn
Well, I have decided quality AM radio is impossible in most conversions. The
controllers/charger/DC-DC converters and wiring used in EV's generate a lot of noise
from alot of different areas. I suppose you could design a RF reduced EV, but it
would be quite costly.
I have had some luck putting a band pass filter in line with the antenna input
(available from radioshack catalog-not in stores). I still get hisssing but can
listen to strong staions if I turn the treble down and the base up (tuning out the
high frequency audio).
My solution has been to listen to books on CD/FM in the civic. Sattilite radio uses
digital transmission and should be unaffected by EV noise. I have also had good luck
using ham radio FM (70cm, 2m, and 10 M) in the car. SSB and AM can only be used when
parked (and even then the DC DC gives some noise)
If you only have one station you want to listen to, you may be able to build a notch
filter to permit only a very narrow frequency to enter the radio, but would mess up
your FM reception.
Lynn Adams
KE2EN
See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EV/AM Radio Noise
Recently installed a nice stereo (Alpine 9803) in my Electrica. No complaints with CD
sound quality. FM is OK. AM, however, is terrible, and the noise directly correlates
with how hard I'm pressing the accellerator.
This must be radio interference generated by either the controller (1221C), or the
motor. Most likely the motor, since it's so close to the radio.
Any of you have this problem? I haven't seen any discussion about it. Solutions,
ideas? (Noise filter?)
If I ever add an XM receiver, am I likely to have the same problem. (What frequency
does satellite radio use?)
Richard Kelly
1981 Jet Electrica
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Flooded NiCd's will self discharge up to 10% in the first 24 hours. The
TEVan has Saft STM5-180's and they discharge about 25% after 5 days off
charge.I was told that in six months they will be completely discharged,
which unlike other chemistries, doesn't harm them.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the same vein, there is a book called 'The design of everyday things' by
Donald Norman which every person who is designing a user interface ought to
be required to read first ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Design Theory
> Roy LeMeur wrote:
> > I thought that many on the EVDL might find value in this.
> > This is the best overview of design theory I have ever read.
> > http://www.geocities.com/roysterothc/taste_for_makers.htm
> > Enjoy!
>
> Really excellent! Thanks, Roy. There is a lot here that applies directly
> to EVs.
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know I am missing the beginning of this conversation so this is not
probably quite on topic but...
I don't' think this is strictly speaking true. The human eye has cones that
react to red, green and I think blue. We see yellow when the red and green
cones react in a way that our brain says is yellow. However yellow light is
around the wavelength 570nm and there is no reason you could not build a
notch filter that allowed only that range of light to pass. This would
effectively block the light from a red or green LED but pass light from a
yellow LED since they all produce very specific wavelengths.
If you are generating 'yellow' by mixing a red and green light (like a TV
does) however you are right you could not filter for it since the yellow you
see is a trick of the brain. So called 'smoke and mirrors' effect :-)
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jamie Marshall (GAMES)
Sent: April 2, 2004 2:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
You can't make a filter that responds only to yellow. Yellow light is
red and green together. You would have to double your circuit, have two
filter-phototransistor setups, one for red and one for green. When both
are activated, you know you have yellow light.
>
> Phototransistors (or photodarlington transistors) are quite sensitive,
> and could easily be used. They are most sensitive to infrared, still
> very sensitive to red, and progressively less sensitive as you go up
the
> spectrum to orange, yellow, green, and blue light. You could add a
> filter to make them only respond to yellow if needed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I don't' think this is strictly speaking true. The human eye has cones
that
> react to red, green and I think blue. We see yellow when the red and
green
> cones react in a way that our brain says is yellow. However yellow light
is
> around the wavelength 570nm and there is no reason you could not build a
> notch filter that allowed only that range of light to pass. This would
> effectively block the light from a red or green LED but pass light from a
> yellow LED since they all produce very specific wavelengths.
>
> If you are generating 'yellow' by mixing a red and green light (like a TV
> does) however you are right you could not filter for it since the yellow
you
> see is a trick of the brain. So called 'smoke and mirrors' effect :-)
First of all, I am under the impression that it's not a trick of the brain
at all. I thought this was heterodyning two waves to produce a third
frequency.. just like in a electrical circuit, only the wavelengths happen
to be visible.
Second of all, I always thought - and I am probably wrong.. that a yellow
LED _was_ a red LED element and a green LED element..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Relisted for $7500.00, by the way.
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2471368330
Um, if it doesn't come with any controller software, what exactly could
you use it for other than a boat anchor?
David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I use the term 'trick' a bit loosely but since you can see the same
colour by at least two different methods the brain and/or the hardware
feeding it are doing some interpretation or interpolation of the input data.
>From perusing the datasheets at DigiKey here is the frequency of some
various colour LED's. There is a fair bit of variance in the wavelengths
and green LED appears to have a fairly broad spectrum with energy at
different wavelengths whereas other colours like blue are much narrower.
http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Panasonic/JPN%20web%20data/LN01201C.pdf
The spectral graphs on the data sheet show only one peak for each colour so
I don't believe they colour is created by multiple emitters.
Red is around 700nm
Orange is around 630nm
Amber is around 590nm
Yellow is around 588nm
Green is around 565nm
Blue is around 430nm
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jon "Sheer" Pullen
Sent: April 2, 2004 5:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Was RE: IUI and IU charging algorithms
> I don't' think this is strictly speaking true. The human eye has cones
that
> react to red, green and I think blue. We see yellow when the red and
green
> cones react in a way that our brain says is yellow. However yellow light
is
> around the wavelength 570nm and there is no reason you could not build a
> notch filter that allowed only that range of light to pass. This would
> effectively block the light from a red or green LED but pass light from a
> yellow LED since they all produce very specific wavelengths.
>
> If you are generating 'yellow' by mixing a red and green light (like a TV
> does) however you are right you could not filter for it since the yellow
you
> see is a trick of the brain. So called 'smoke and mirrors' effect :-)
First of all, I am under the impression that it's not a trick of the brain
at all. I thought this was heterodyning two waves to produce a third
frequency.. just like in a electrical circuit, only the wavelengths happen
to be visible.
Second of all, I always thought - and I am probably wrong.. that a yellow
LED _was_ a red LED element and a green LED element..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adams, Lynn wrote:
..
The problem is AM (amplitude modulation).
> FM and Digital are inherently immune to this kind of RFI
To set the record straight, broadcasting FM is also pure
analog modulation. You're probably confusing it with FSK.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday, April 02, 2004 2:38 PM, Chuck Hursch
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It is a K2 120V model. Three separate lights across the front of
> the charger, presumably each an LED.
OK, this makes it pretty easy then; just place a phototransistor in
front of the yellow LED with a shroud to prevent it 'seeing' any
other light.
> I suspect
> these colored lights are just white leds with colored filters
> over them.
Unlikely, I think. White LEDs are more costly (and may not even have
been available when the K2 was designed). Red, green, and yellow
LEDs are cheap and common.
> There is no separate connector to this charger, just
> the DC charge wires, AC power in,
Too bad, but at least it has separate red, green, and yellow LEDs.
> and three teensy-weensy
> little adjustment screws (max current, gassing voltage, and
> gassing current)
Hang on; if there is an adjustment for the gassing current, then
wouldn't it be simpler to just turn the current down to a tolerable
level (like 2-3A) and not worry about it being held for 3hrs? (I
assume the adjustment range doesn't go this low? Sorry, I can't
recall your original description of the problem.)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jamie Marshall (GAMES) wrote:
> You can't make a filter that responds only to yellow. Yellow light
> is red and green together. You would have to double your circuit,
> have two filter-phototransistor setups, one for red and one for
> green. When both are activated, you know you have yellow light.
You are confusing the limited response of the human eye with the actual
physics.
There *is* true yellow light; it has a wavelength of 580-600 nanometers.
Yellow LEDs produce a single narrow band of wavelengths somewhere in
this region. Their output at red (635-660 nm) and green (500-560 nm)
wavelengths is negligible.
You *can* have a yellow filter; it is one that passes only 580-600 nm,
and blocks other wavelengths.
The human eye only has three color receptors; for red, green, and blue.
These receptors are very broad-banded; the red and green receptors also
respond to yellow light. We only see yellow indirectly; a pure yellow
LED happens to excite the red and green receptors about equally.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Adams, Lynn wrote:
> I have decided quality AM radio is impossible in most conversions.
> The controllers/charger/DC-DC converters and wiring used in EV's
> generate a lot of noise from alot of different areas. I suppose
> you could design a RF reduced EV, but it would be quite costly.
It's not impossible, nor even particularly expensive; but it does
require attention to details. Most EVers (and the manufacturers of the
equipment used in EVs) don't bother to try; that's all.
The auto company-produced EVs had AM radios that worked. They just had
to pay attention to shielding, grounding, and filtering.
Suppose you want to make the AM radio work in a typical home-built EV
with series motor, PWM controller, and DC/DC converter:
Motor
-----
- The arcing brushes generate high frequency noise. Connect a high
quality ceramic or non-inductive film capacitor (0.1uF 600v) across
the brushes. Connect two more smaller capacitors (0.01uF 1000v)
from each brush terminal to ground. There are special UL-listed
class X and Y capacitors built for this purpose; you will find
them in every switching power supply, radio, TV, etc.
- Ground the metal stone guard over the brush openings.
- Make sure the case of the motor is *solidly* grounded, with a
thick short wire or heavy metal strap.
Wiring
------
- Bundle your high-power wires in pairs; for example, tie-wrap the
two wires to the motor together. This makes the noise currents in
them cancel.
- Shield the wires, and ground the shields. This can be done by
running the wires inside a metal conduit, or wrapping them with
aluminum foil, or getting some braided copper tubing and sliding
it over them.
- Don't run low-voltage wiring anywhere near the high-power wiring.
Especially, don't run them thru the same hole in the steel body.
- Don't route the high-power cables inside the car or under the dash
near the radio is, or near its antenna and antenna wire.
Controller
----------
- Make sure the case is solidly grounded, with a heavy strap or wire.
- Cover its terminals with a metal or wire screened grounded cover.
- Add noise suppression capacitors (as described for the motor) to
ground from each battery terminal.
- Do *NOT* put any capacitors on the switched motor output! (M- on a
Curtis controller)! This wire should go to the motor's series field
terminal, *NOT* to the armature terminal!
- Put a single large powdered iron or ferrite core over BOTH wires to
the batteries (B+ and B-). By putting both wires thru the same core,
there will be no net DC current, so the core will not saturate. Thus
it is much more effective as an RF filter choke.
- Likewise, put BOTH wires to the motor thru a single large core.
DC/DC converter
---------------
- Make sure it has an RF filter on both its input and output. Most
switching power supplies have an RF filter on their input, but only
ones designed for use as a 12v source for running things like car
radios etc. will have the RF output filter.
- If your DC/DC doesn't have these filters, add them. Basically, they
are a series inductor or transformer, and capacitor across the lines
and to ground.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
I don't believe they colour is created by multiple emitters.
Red is around 700nm
Orange is around 630nm
Amber is around 590nm
Yellow is around 588nm
Green is around 565nm
Blue is around 430nm
Lawrence
Different LED colors are created by doping silicon substrate with
different chemicals (Ga, As and such) during diffusion process.
The chemical(s) can be picked to produce anything
from IR to UV, and usually it is quite monochrome light,
i.e. one frequency in spectrum and the tails falling off.
Not as monochrome as laser light, but unlike light bulb,
only one peak. (Exception being a white led. I don't know how
it is constructed; my first guess is by just mixing all 3
primaries as pixels on the CRT monitor: the white color you see
on the color monitor is really RGB mixed in the same proportion).
If the screen pixels are close enough so the eye color receptors
cannot resolve them apart, they appear as one pixel, no need
to modulate each one. But, the LEDs are not manufactured with
dice so close, so you in a bi-color LED you see two distinctive
LEDs if you look closely. To see the third color, say orange with
red-green LED, you need to turn them on/off alternatively.
(Obviously, PWMing individual LEDs you can get gradual change
from red to green).
But, if you look from far enough the distance (4-5 feet), you
can just turn on both, without modulation. Since you won't be able
to resolve the distance between red and green die, so all you'll
see is orange/amber. (BTW you cannot quite get yellow this way,
you need blue component).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Adams, Lynn wrote:
> Frequency really doesn't matter. AM is the problem. I have seen RFI
> in the EV every where from 3KHz to 800 Mhz. The problem is AM
> (amplitude modulation). FM and Digital are inherently immune to
> this kind of RFI.
Actually, I think frequency matters a great deal.
First, most of the noise sources in an EV come from switching at very
low frequencies, barely above the audio range; generally 15-50 KHz. The
RF interference comes from the harmonics of these signals. The power in
the harmonics falls off roughly as the square of the harmonic number.
For example, a Curtis controller can deliver 10 KW at 15 KHz. Its 100th
harmonic is 1500 KHz, right in the AM radio band. But the strength of
that harmonic is 1/10,000th of 10 KW, or 1 watt. An AM radio can easily
hear a 1 watt transmitter if it's nearby.
But the FM broadcast band is 88-108 MHz, about 70 times higher. So it
takes the 7000th harmonic of 15 KHz to get into the FM radio. The power
in this harmonic is down to something like 10kw x (1/7000^2) = 200
microwatts. This is too low to bother the radio.
AM is certainly more sensitive to impulse noise than FM (like from spark
plugs). But the electronic noise from the controller and DC/DC converter
are both AM and FM modulated, and so will cheerfully get into both kinds
of receivers if they are strong enough.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
> First of all, I am under the impression that it's not a trick of
> the brain at all. I thought this was heterodyning two waves to
> produce a third frequency, just like in a electrical circuit,
> only the wavelengths happen to be visible.
No; 'yellow' is just how the brain perceives equal amounts of red and
green light from the same point.
To get a heterodyne effect, you need to pass the light through some kind
of nonlinear device; simply adding them does not produce a heterodyne.
And if you *did* heterodyne red and green, you'd get the sum and
difference frequencies; one way down in the microwaves, and the other
far up in the ultraviolet.
> Second of all, I always thought that a yellow LED _was_ a red LED
> element and a green LED element.
There are both kinds. Red/green LEDs, in which you light both of them at
once to produce yellow. And, there are simple yellow LEDs that produce
pure yellow light.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Different LED colors are created by doping silicon substrate with
> different chemicals (Ga, As and such) during diffusion process.
I don't think there is any silicon substrate; LEDs are basically made
with gallium arsenide substrates. Various doping elements change the
bandgap, and thus the color.
There used to be some silicon carbide based LEDs, but I think they
performed so much worse than GaAs that no one uses them any more.
> Not as monochrome as laser light, but unlike light bulb,
> only one peak. (Exception being a white led. I don't know how
> it is constructed
It is a blue LED, with a phosphor like a fluorescent light that converts
some of the blue light into the other colors. Thus, they output a wide
mix of wavelengths.
Though just as there are LEDs with a red and a green chip inside, there
are LEDs with three chips inside (red, green, and blue). By controlling
them separately, they can produce any color.
> (BTW you cannot quite get yellow this way, you need blue component).
It is pretty good. The moving signs you see all the time use just
red-green LEDs to get 4 colors; red, orange, yellow, and green.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IIRC blue LEDs are made with silicon carbide. Cree, who makes these
also offer a 600V SiC "zero recovery" diode. Haven't tried it, just
repeating the marketing material. The datasheet might be worth a read
if you like TO-247 parts.
Seth
On Apr 2, 2004, at 11:24 PM, Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Different LED colors are created by doping silicon substrate with
different chemicals (Ga, As and such) during diffusion process.
I don't think there is any silicon substrate; LEDs are basically made
with gallium arsenide substrates. Various doping elements change the
bandgap, and thus the color.
There used to be some silicon carbide based LEDs, but I think they
performed so much worse than GaAs that no one uses them any more.
Not as monochrome as laser light, but unlike light bulb,
only one peak. (Exception being a white led. I don't know how
it is constructed
It is a blue LED, with a phosphor like a fluorescent light that
converts
some of the blue light into the other colors. Thus, they output a wide
mix of wavelengths.
Though just as there are LEDs with a red and a green chip inside, there
are LEDs with three chips inside (red, green, and blue). By controlling
them separately, they can produce any color.
(BTW you cannot quite get yellow this way, you need blue component).
It is pretty good. The moving signs you see all the time use just
red-green LEDs to get 4 colors; red, orange, yellow, and green.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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At 7:49 PM -0500 on 4/1/04, Chris Zach wrote:
I think right now every man, woman and child who has an EV is
contacting these guys. 600 cars times 26 batteries each is....
15,600 modules.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here are the pictures of the Wrecked Aspire. I was thinking if there is a
body guy on the list that might want her it might be a good deal. I drove
her home. Didn't drive bad at all. I could probably beat the dings out but
the right side doors are pinched together and it needs a frame strightening.
The rear battery box is crimped slightly. The pack seems ok. Charger
works. Seems that this project might be a bit much for me. If anyone wants
her for a try let me know. It is a 97 Ford Aspire with 6700 miles on her.
Trade for Extra cab, B2000 etc...Pickup with a Nine inch adapter or make
offer. It just needs body work and the pack is so so. Good for 30 to 40
San Francisco miles. If someone could fix her for a few thousand let me
know and I'll keep her. I'm open to any suggestions. I'm just sick about
it. 10k down the drain. The check from State Farm is 3500 dollars. Not
enough to fix her right at least that is what the body shop says. The
offending driver says sue me. He has no insurance & I didn't have enough.
Lawrence Rhodes....
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-092F.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-093S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-094S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-095S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-096S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-097S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-098S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-099S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-100S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-101S.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-102S.JPG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Apr 2004 at 23:13, ben wrote:
> The problem is where is all this electricity going to come from ?? Coal
> fired power plants:)
Not all of it. Electric power in the US comes from a mixture of sources; in
some areas hydropower predominates. And even when coal does, often coal-
fueled powerplants burn appreciably cleaner per unit of vehicle travel than
an ICE does.
This is the usual uninformed person's objection to EVs - "they just move the
pollution from the car to the powerplant." The anti-EV folks (AKA GM, Ford,
etc.) would prefer that you believe that, but a little investigation will
show that it's not the case.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion
Est. 2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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--- Begin Message ---
On 1 Apr 2004 at 12:21, Edward Ang wrote:
> I highly recommend the PFC series charger. At $1500,
> the PFC-20 is a bargain.
With all due respect to Edward (and Rich), there is only one problem. I
realize that quite a few people here don't think it's a problem, and I don't
really want to start another heated "discussion" about it. But I do think
it's a matter to consider when deciding on a charger.
Your Zivan has a transformer in it. That keeps the battery pack 100%
isolated from the powerline. That's a good thing. Conversely, the PFC
chargers do ^not^ have an isolation transformer. Compared to your Zivan,
there is an increased risk of electrical shock or electrocution with a PFC
charger.
How much of an increased risk? It depends on several factors. They include
what kind of batteries you use, how your battery containment is constructed,
how certain and how good an electrical ground is provided when the vehicle
is connected to the powerline, and how reliable a GFI (if any!) you have at
the input to the charger. But I can say categorically that a non-isolated
charger has one fewer shock safeguards than an isolated one - and that
missing safeguard, IMO, is a fairly significant one.
Again, with all due respect to the hard work that Rich has put into his
chargers, until he makes one that's fully isolated, I recommend giving very
serious consideration to the golf car charger mentioned by someone else.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
-- William G. McAdoo
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sue him. Get a judgement and pursue collecting it. Then what about finding
another nice Aspire and transfer the EV parts? They can't be that much
anymore. If they are high in CA, come to Phx an you will find a bunch and
they will probably be cheap. And you got a $ 3,500 leg up. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:19 AM
Subject: What happen to my car
> Here are the pictures of the Wrecked Aspire. I was thinking if there is a
> body guy on the list that might want her it might be a good deal. I drove
> her home. Didn't drive bad at all. I could probably beat the dings out
but
> the right side doors are pinched together and it needs a frame
strightening.
> The rear battery box is crimped slightly. The pack seems ok. Charger
> works. Seems that this project might be a bit much for me. If anyone
wants
> her for a try let me know. It is a 97 Ford Aspire with 6700 miles on
her.
> Trade for Extra cab, B2000 etc...Pickup with a Nine inch adapter or make
> offer. It just needs body work and the pack is so so. Good for 30 to 40
> San Francisco miles. If someone could fix her for a few thousand let me
> know and I'll keep her. I'm open to any suggestions. I'm just sick about
> it. 10k down the drain. The check from State Farm is 3500 dollars. Not
> enough to fix her right at least that is what the body shop says. The
> offending driver says sue me. He has no insurance & I didn't have enough.
> Lawrence Rhodes....
>
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-092F.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-093S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-094S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-095S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-096S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-097S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-098S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-099S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-100S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-101S.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-102S.JPG
>
--- End Message ---
