EV Digest 3442
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Free donor - Porsche 924 in Snohomish, WA
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(Turkish Electric Motorcycles)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVLN(Turkish Electric Motorcycles)
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EVLN(Turkish Electric Motorcycles)
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: What happen to my car
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Design Theory
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EV/AM Radio Noise
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: What happen to my car
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) VERY OT-Ghost Town-should be required viewing
by Joe Buford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Schematic Capture Tool
by "Mark Brueggemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Eco Trekker Series
by "Mark Brueggemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Tour de Sol Entrants ...
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: EV/AM Radio Noise
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) motor mounting
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: motor mounting
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: motor mounting
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: motor mounting
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) iso or not iso (Re: change zivan from 220 to 110 input?)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Neat plugs and connectors.
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: ACPropulsion combo on eBay
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: ACPropulsion combo on eBay
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: iso or not iso (Re: change zivan from 220 to 110 input?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
No.... you did not imagine it. I'm giving away a Porsche 924! Hopefully
to someone who wants to make an EV out of it. Of course, it is an older
one, a 1977 model, and it is not only FREE of price - it is free of a
motor, too! It is even free of some carpet, exhaust pipe, radiator, and
miscellaneous other stuff.
Here is the story. This Porsche was going to be restored. The motor was
sent out to be rebuilt, and the deal fell through. Fast forward about 10
years where the car sat in a backyard collecting moss. Now comes me. I
like electric vehicles. I sold my electric pickup truck, kept the
electric motor and controller and some other goodies, and planned on
putting them into this nifty sports car body. But I'm impatient, and
don't have enough time to do a total "from the ground up" conversion
properly. So I've decided to buy an already converted car to restore,
and get rid of this one for what I paid for it. Nothing! Note: Married
men who have too many cars "in progress" can have their lives made
uncomfortable.... So this car goes before the next one arrives, capisch?
The bad stuff. No motor. No keys. Dirty, ripped seats, broken lock on
steering wheel, dragging brakes, and neglect of over a decade being a
home for wasps and weeds.
The good stuff. The tranny is still there, as is the power transfer
shaft, bell housing, and some clutch parts. All the glass is intact. The
doors open and shut with still satisfying easy "thunk". The seats are
the nice Recaro seats.... put a cover on them. The lights are not
attached, but all the parts appear to be there. There is even a few
boxes of little bits and screws and stuff. 5 wheels - and they hold air.
The brakes work.... but are sticking (probably need to remove and clean
some rust off the caliper or something. And.... the person who I got it
from did not have a title so he arranged to have it declared salvage -
because it obviously did not work. So you can have that paperwork, and
when you put some kind of motor into it again, you will be able to get
it inspected and titled. (Or if you are a porsche nut, use this one for
donor parts to keep another one looking good for a few more years).
I would ask you for money, but I just don't think it would be fair. I
got it for free, and my "car-ma" might be harmed if I took this as an
opportunity to profit. If you have a car trailer, I might ask for help
moving another car in the future from Seattle to Snohomish.
Best contact is via email - and my wife would love for this to leave the
driveway this month. I would love it if somebody would actually do
something with this car - it seems a shame to let it go to waste.
Thanks -
Pictures at the link below (my site is moving servers - sorry for the
long URL)
http://brooke.simonweb.com/~kevin-coughlin.com/cars/porsche/index.html
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This bike is 400w more powerful than my daughters Vego 600 for 200 more
dollars. Ten mph more speed double the voltage. Nice modern styling. It
seems like a bargain. Lawrence Rhodes...........
Dimensions: L=1690mm/67" W=610mm/24" H=1000mm/39"
Net weight: 80kg/176 lbs. (105kg/231 lbs with batteries)
Motor: DC brush 1,000 watt, 48 volt
Max Speed: 48km/h, 30mph
Max Range: up to 70km/45 miles
Battery Type: 4 x 12v/21AH Macromolecule Micro-bursa sealed lead acid gel
type
Battery Life: 500cycles(approximately 35,000 km/22,000 miles)
Dual Voltage Charger: Input voltage 110/220V AC, 60/50 HZ. Output voltage
58V DC. Max power consumed 165W
Charging Time: Initial charge 12h. Subsequent charges 2-8h
Max Noise: <55 dBA
Price: $999.00 plus shipping, handling and taxes where applicable
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:38 PM
Subject: EVLN(Turkish Electric Motorcycles)
> EVLN(Turkish Electric Motorcycles)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> Turkish Superstar Halil Ergun Launches Evader's New Line of 200
> Series
> Electric Motorcycles at the Istanbul International Motorcycle Show
>
> ISTANBUL, Turkey--(BUSINESS WIRE)--03/25/2004--Bellevue-Washington
> based Evader, Inc. (www.evader.us.) the maker of
> electric high-performance vehicles powered by their leading-edge
> proprietary technology continues its tour of the world's leading
> motorcycle shows with its biggest display ever at the 2004
> International Motorcycle Show in Istanbul, Turkey.
>
> With the help of Turkish superstar, Halil Ergun, Evader is launching
> its new line of 200 series electric motorcycles. The EV200S along
> with
> seven other Evader models are on exhibit at Evader's biggest show to
> date. The show opened at noon Thursday at the Istanbul Exhibition and
> Convention Center and continues through Sunday March 28. The other
> seven motorcycles on display include the 100, 100S, the 100S
> camouflage military bike, the all-new Classic and the all-new 200
> series.
>
> "We started selling the new EV200S within two minutes of the show
> opening its doors," said Erdinc Kabranlar, the CEO of Megacar AG. "We
> have been overwhelmed in our booth. Istanbul is a city of over 15
> million people and is plagued with congestion and pollution. The
> Evader product line will give people a opportunity to participate in
> reducing our pollution."
>
> "The Turkish market is going to be big," said Rob Stoneham, Evader's
> Director International Distribution. "With a population of more than
> 70 million and gasoline priced at almost US$7.00 per gallon the
> Turkish people are looking for an affordable, quiet and
> environmentally friendly solution for their transportation needs.
> Evader is the only answer."
>
> Police version unveiled
> The show also marks the debut Evader's 200 series of Police styled
> electric motorcycles. Capable of speeds of up to 55 MPH, the first
> all
> electric Evader EV200S Police Cruiser, fully equipped with sirens and
> lights and built for the Istanbul "Trafik Polis" is appearing as
> Evader's first production police motorcycle, ready for active duty.
>
> Evader has partnered with Megacar AG to distribute its products
> throughout Turkey, Eastern Europe and Northern Africa. Megacar and
> Evader have eight languages represented at the show in Istanbul.
> Megacar has entered into a 5 year distribution agreement with Evader
> that includes purchase commitments within these regions over annual
> periods.
>
> About the company
> Evader (www.evader.us) is a developer and manufacturer of advanced
> technology electric vehicles. Evader's all new, 4th generation
> proprietary technology was developed in the United States and is
> incorporated into all Evader products. Evader's corporate
> headquarters
> are in Bellevue, Washington with their Latin American division
> operating out of Coral Springs, FL.
>
> For more information visit us at our website at www.evader.us.
> Certain statements in this news release may contain forward-looking
> information within the meaning of Rule 175 under the Securities Act
> of
> 1933 and Rule 3b-6 under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and are
> subject to the safe harbor created by those rules. All statements
> other than statements of fact, included in this release, are
> forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.
>
> CONTACT:Evader, Inc. Investor Relations: Roger Kelly, 425-688-3007
> Fax: 425-688-3017 [EMAIL PROTECTED] SOURCE: Evader, Inc.
> 03/25/2004 15:04 EASTERN
> -
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Lawrence, would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge if I told you
it had great range and power? :-) I did a bit of snooping on the Net
and can not find an International Motorcycle show in Istanbul. For
those interested check out the following two extensive listings:
http://www.eventseye.com/fairs/event_l231.html
http://www.svite.lt/index.php?page=html&view=parodos_kovas
If anyone finds it please let me know. Also check out the standard
issue Chinese scooter on their web site claiming to be "proprietary
technology". Hey, any of you old timers out there see Joeseph
Lastella of Bat Industries lately. Always beware when you read Rule
175 at the end of these press releases.
Roderick
Disclaimer: The above statements may or may not represent the
opinions of my employer.
This bike is 400w more powerful than my daughters Vego 600 for 200 more
dollars. Ten mph more speed double the voltage. Nice modern styling. It
seems like a bargain. Lawrence Rhodes...........
Dimensions: L=1690mm/67" W=610mm/24" H=1000mm/39"
Net weight: 80kg/176 lbs. (105kg/231 lbs with batteries)
Motor: DC brush 1,000 watt, 48 volt
Max Speed: 48km/h, 30mph
Max Range: up to 70km/45 miles
Battery Type: 4 x 12v/21AH Macromolecule Micro-bursa sealed lead acid gel
type
Battery Life: 500cycles(approximately 35,000 km/22,000 miles)
Dual Voltage Charger: Input voltage 110/220V AC, 60/50 HZ. Output voltage
58V DC. Max power consumed 165W
Charging Time: Initial charge 12h. Subsequent charges 2-8h
Max Noise: <55 dBA
Price: $999.00 plus shipping, handling and taxes where applicable
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 11:38 PM
Subject: EVLN(Turkish Electric Motorcycles)
EVLN(Turkish Electric Motorcycles)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
Turkish Superstar Halil Ergun Launches Evader's New Line of 200
Series
Electric Motorcycles at the Istanbul International Motorcycle Show
ISTANBUL, Turkey--(BUSINESS WIRE)--03/25/2004--Bellevue-Washington
based Evader, Inc. (www.evader.us.) the maker of
electric high-performance vehicles powered by their leading-edge
proprietary technology continues its tour of the world's leading
motorcycle shows with its biggest display ever at the 2004
International Motorcycle Show in Istanbul, Turkey.
With the help of Turkish superstar, Halil Ergun, Evader is launching
its new line of 200 series electric motorcycles. The EV200S along
with
seven other Evader models are on exhibit at Evader's biggest show to
date. The show opened at noon Thursday at the Istanbul Exhibition and
Convention Center and continues through Sunday March 28. The other
seven motorcycles on display include the 100, 100S, the 100S
camouflage military bike, the all-new Classic and the all-new 200
series.
"We started selling the new EV200S within two minutes of the show
opening its doors," said Erdinc Kabranlar, the CEO of Megacar AG. "We
have been overwhelmed in our booth. Istanbul is a city of over 15
million people and is plagued with congestion and pollution. The
Evader product line will give people a opportunity to participate in
reducing our pollution."
"The Turkish market is going to be big," said Rob Stoneham, Evader's
Director International Distribution. "With a population of more than
70 million and gasoline priced at almost US$7.00 per gallon the
Turkish people are looking for an affordable, quiet and
environmentally friendly solution for their transportation needs.
Evader is the only answer."
Police version unveiled
The show also marks the debut Evader's 200 series of Police styled
electric motorcycles. Capable of speeds of up to 55 MPH, the first
all
electric Evader EV200S Police Cruiser, fully equipped with sirens and
> lights and built for the Istanbul "Trafik Polis" is appearing as
Evader's first production police motorcycle, ready for active duty.
Evader has partnered with Megacar AG to distribute its products
throughout Turkey, Eastern Europe and Northern Africa. Megacar and
Evader have eight languages represented at the show in Istanbul.
Megacar has entered into a 5 year distribution agreement with Evader
that includes purchase commitments within these regions over annual
periods.
About the company
Evader (www.evader.us) is a developer and manufacturer of advanced
technology electric vehicles. Evader's all new, 4th generation
proprietary technology was developed in the United States and is
incorporated into all Evader products. Evader's corporate
headquarters
are in Bellevue, Washington with their Latin American division
operating out of Coral Springs, FL.
For more information visit us at our website at www.evader.us.
Certain statements in this news release may contain forward-looking
information within the meaning of Rule 175 under the Securities Act
of
1933 and Rule 3b-6 under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and are
subject to the safe harbor created by those rules. All statements
other than statements of fact, included in this release, are
forward-looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties.
CONTACT:Evader, Inc. Investor Relations: Roger Kelly, 425-688-3007
Fax: 425-688-3017 [EMAIL PROTECTED] SOURCE: Evader, Inc.
03/25/2004 15:04 EASTERN
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
--
Roderick Wilde
Vintage Golf Cart Parts
Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 360-385-4868
Fax: 360-385-7922
107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hey Lawrence, would you like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge if I told you it
had great range and power? :-) I did a bit of snooping on the Net and
can not find an International Motorcycle show in Istanbul. For those
interested check out the following two extensive listings:
http://www.eventseye.com/fairs/event_l231.html
http://www.svite.lt/index.php?page=html&view=parodos_kovas
If anyone finds it please let me know. Also check out the standard issue
Chinese scooter on their web site claiming to be "proprietary
technology". Hey, any of you old timers out there see Joeseph Lastella
of Bat Industries lately. Always beware when you read Rule 175 at the
end of these press releases.
Roderick
No that I would consider Evader reputative any more than that they claim
to have products, but there was indeed a motorcycle show in Istanbul,
ended March 28th - therefore, the press release does not lie in this
respect and is published appropriately.
Certainly the specs are optimistic as they tend to be for every brand
but who knows, maybe evader will rise above the trash that is offered at
eBay and other internet sources.
Pekka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Hang on; if there is an adjustment for the gassing current,
then
> wouldn't it be simpler to just turn the current down to a
tolerable
> level (like 2-3A) and not worry about it being held for 3hrs?
(I
> assume the adjustment range doesn't go this low? Sorry, I can't
> recall your original description of the problem.)
That is what I am doing now, at 2A and let it do its 3-hour
thing. Lee seemed to think that I should be up in the 4-8A range
for this phase to get the battery up into its gassing voltage
range. Currently, I do a 4A run for about a breakfast's worth
(45 minutes) once during the weekend, on the theory that you
probably really don't need to gas them every charge cycle, and do
some catch up on the weekend. Further, I do a monthly equalize
at 4A for 2-3hours after battery watering and cleaning. Frankly,
I doubt the batteries get very far behind, since after about an
hour at 4A during the montly equalize, the voltage peak is
usually reached and starts to roll over, so the batteries are
starting to get warmer. However, with 48 cells out there in a
string, it's a bit guess-and-by-gosh as to what an individual
cell is doing...
Chuck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Man, that looks like a nice car if you could just get rid of the
rear-end fiasco and floppy driver's seat! I don't know if Will
Beckett (Palo Alto) lurks on the EVDL, but he had a Solectria
Force that was crunched on the rear end, and I think he
successfully managed to get that car fixed up. Or maybe you
could get Otmar to weld you on a new back end, since he's capable
of welding ends of Vanagons together for a whole new vehicle. A
stretch Aspire? :-)
The lady two levels up from me in this apt bldg rolled her rather
new Mazda Tribute SUV on ice up in the Tahoe area a few months
ago. From what she said, it was rather crunched in certain
places. She was driving another car for several weeks, and then
her SUV reappeared. I've looked at it fairly closely a few
times, and it looks showroom fresh - they even shined up the
tires for her. Paint, plastic, everything looks great! While
I'm not a body shop pro, I can't find a defect on the vehicle.
So it can be done.
But you need the bucks to do that kind of work or create another
EV. Sue the guy or whatever it takes! It's his fault, not
yours, and you shouldn't be hurting for his negligent actions.
Looks like a pretty nice part of SF - what part of town?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: What happen to my car
> Sue him. Get a judgement and pursue collecting it. Then what
about finding
> another nice Aspire and transfer the EV parts? They can't be
that much
> anymore. If they are high in CA, come to Phx an you will find a
bunch and
> they will probably be cheap. And you got a $ 3,500 leg up.
David Chapman.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:19 AM
> Subject: What happen to my car
>
>
> > Here are the pictures of the Wrecked Aspire. I was thinking
if there is a
> > body guy on the list that might want her it might be a good
deal. I drove
> > her home. Didn't drive bad at all. I could probably beat
the dings out
> but
> > the right side doors are pinched together and it needs a
frame
> strightening.
> > The rear battery box is crimped slightly. The pack seems ok.
Charger
> > works. Seems that this project might be a bit much for me.
If anyone
> wants
> > her for a try let me know. It is a 97 Ford Aspire with 6700
miles on
> her.
> > Trade for Extra cab, B2000 etc...Pickup with a Nine inch
adapter or make
> > offer. It just needs body work and the pack is so so. Good
for 30 to 40
> > San Francisco miles. If someone could fix her for a few
thousand let me
> > know and I'll keep her. I'm open to any suggestions. I'm
just sick about
> > it. 10k down the drain. The check from State Farm is 3500
dollars. Not
> > enough to fix her right at least that is what the body shop
says. The
> > offending driver says sue me. He has no insurance & I didn't
have enough.
> > Lawrence Rhodes....
> >
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-092F.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-093S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-094S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-095S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-096S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-097S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-098S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-099S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-100S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-101S.JPG
> > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-102S.JPG
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This essay was originally written by Paul Graham.
http://www.paulgraham.com/taste.html
One of his current fields of research is Bayesian spam filtering.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Roy LeMeur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, 2 April 2004 4:35 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: OT: Design Theory
I thought that many on the EVDL might find value in this.
When building or modifying vehicles or machines, I have always stuck to
the
"less is more" theory. This article has certainly reinforced this
concept
for me.
This is the best overview of design theory I have ever read.
It is sort of long, but I am hoping you all enjoy it as much as I have.
There is a lot of scientific, classic literature, and art references in
the
article, but even folks without exposure to these areas should be able
to
grasp the basic ideas.
Enjoy!
http://www.geocities.com/roysterothc/taste_for_makers.htm
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for
information
and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't have any problem listening to AM radio when I want to although i
usually listen to NPR. Bundle, ty-rap the #1 power cables under the
passenger side together so the fields cancel out. Bundle all the low voltage
and control stuff under the drivers' side. Also make sure the #00 cables
from the controller to the motor are as short as possible, about a foot to
18". - Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: EV/AM Radio Noise
> Well, I have decided quality AM radio is impossible in most conversions.
The controllers/charger/DC-DC converters and wiring used in EV's generate a
lot of noise from alot of different areas. I suppose you could design a RF
reduced EV, but it would be quite costly.
>
> I have had some luck putting a band pass filter in line with the antenna
input (available from radioshack catalog-not in stores). I still get
hisssing but can listen to strong staions if I turn the treble down and the
base up (tuning out the high frequency audio).
>
> My solution has been to listen to books on CD/FM in the civic. Sattilite
radio uses digital transmission and should be unaffected by EV noise. I
have also had good luck using ham radio FM (70cm, 2m, and 10 M) in the car.
SSB and AM can only be used when parked (and even then the DC DC gives some
noise)
>
> If you only have one station you want to listen to, you may be able to
build a notch filter to permit only a very narrow frequency to enter the
radio, but would mess up your FM reception.
>
> Lynn Adams
> KE2EN
>
>
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:50 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: EV/AM Radio Noise
>
>
> Recently installed a nice stereo (Alpine 9803) in my Electrica. No
complaints with CD sound quality. FM is OK. AM, however, is terrible, and
the noise directly correlates with how hard I'm pressing the accellerator.
>
> This must be radio interference generated by either the controller
(1221C), or the motor. Most likely the motor, since it's so close to the
radio.
>
> Any of you have this problem? I haven't seen any discussion about it.
Solutions, ideas? (Noise filter?)
>
> If I ever add an XM receiver, am I likely to have the same problem. (What
frequency does satellite radio use?)
>
> Richard Kelly
> 1981 Jet Electrica
> (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Here are the pictures of the Wrecked Aspire. I was thinking if there is a
>
I think you could make a nice pick up out of this , cut the roof right
behind the front doors , get ride of all the weight ,back doors ect ,put
some ply wood cut to the size of the hole you just made with a little
window in it , and make a wood bed for the back. I did this one time to a
Vega station wagon and had a nice little pu. Just a though ,
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another vote for Eagle by CadSoft, they are by far the most features
for the price. Windoze and Linux versions too. They offer a
"non-commercial" license now, if you sign a statement promising you
won't use it to make money with (i.e. hobby use) you can get the
standard version for $150. Gives you a 4x6" board, 4 layers, unlimited
parts and connections. Their latest release has some very nice features,
even if you only use the freebie or the light version, it's a great
tool to learn and use.
Mark Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
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The Eco Trekker series caravan will be coming through our
area in the coming weeks, and are hitting up our local group
for participants. Has anyone been involved with this show
and what was your impression? Just visiting the website tells
me it's a bunch of loons that don't offer much towards positive
EV press, but wanted to check here on EVDL to see if anyone
knows more.
Mark Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
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Just in from NESEA concerning the Tour de Sol ...
... we will be showcasing several OEM vehicles including
the 2004 Toyota Prius,
a hybrid and CNG version of the Honda Civic,
Ford's hybrid Escape SUV,
a 40' bus with an Allison hybrid drive system,
and several vehicles from GM.
We are also negotiating with several e-bike and NEV OEMs.
As for the student and independent teams, approximately two-dozen teams have
signed up. We notice an increase in the number of vehicles using biodiesel,
and the Solar category has doubled in size. Please follow these links to see a
list of participants to date.
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2004entrants.html
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2004entrants2
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2004entrants3
--
Mike Bianchi
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--- Begin Message ---
Richard,
After following this string, I have to tell you that all the responses are correct!
The RF Interferance varies greatly between setups and particullary AM reception will
be affected.
For existing conversions like yours and mine, reducing RF noise is probabally alot
more trouble is practical. FM should work well, Sattilite radio should work fine,
since it is digitally encoded/decoded and has error correction built in (thats what I
meant by digital transmission).
My local NPR station changed from FM to AM for the news, therefore it is mostly
un-obtainable, very dissappointing.
Now I usually listen to books on CD on my hour long commute. I get them from the
library and have found I actually look forward to the commute!
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Hanson
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 6:39 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EV/AM Radio Noise
I don't have any problem listening to AM radio when I want to although i
usually listen to NPR. Bundle, ty-rap the #1 power cables under the
passenger side together so the fields cancel out. Bundle all the low voltage
and control stuff under the drivers' side. Also make sure the #00 cables
from the controller to the motor are as short as possible, about a foot to
18". - Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: EV/AM Radio Noise
> Well, I have decided quality AM radio is impossible in most conversions.
The controllers/charger/DC-DC converters and wiring used in EV's generate a
lot of noise from alot of different areas. I suppose you could design a RF
reduced EV, but it would be quite costly.
>
> I have had some luck putting a band pass filter in line with the antenna
input (available from radioshack catalog-not in stores). I still get
hisssing but can listen to strong staions if I turn the treble down and the
base up (tuning out the high frequency audio).
>
> My solution has been to listen to books on CD/FM in the civic. Sattilite
radio uses digital transmission and should be unaffected by EV noise. I
have also had good luck using ham radio FM (70cm, 2m, and 10 M) in the car.
SSB and AM can only be used when parked (and even then the DC DC gives some
noise)
>
> If you only have one station you want to listen to, you may be able to
build a notch filter to permit only a very narrow frequency to enter the
radio, but would mess up your FM reception.
>
> Lynn Adams
> KE2EN
>
>
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2004 1:50 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: EV/AM Radio Noise
>
>
> Recently installed a nice stereo (Alpine 9803) in my Electrica. No
complaints with CD sound quality. FM is OK. AM, however, is terrible, and
the noise directly correlates with how hard I'm pressing the accellerator.
>
> This must be radio interference generated by either the controller
(1221C), or the motor. Most likely the motor, since it's so close to the
radio.
>
> Any of you have this problem? I haven't seen any discussion about it.
Solutions, ideas? (Noise filter?)
>
> If I ever add an XM receiver, am I likely to have the same problem. (What
frequency does satellite radio use?)
>
> Richard Kelly
> 1981 Jet Electrica
> (http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/474.html)
>
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hey rich,otmar,other racers
I was looking at the drawing of the mounting for a ADC 9" or a warp 9"
and I was concerned about the 4 - 3/8 bolts that go into the face. How
on earth are those 4 bolts gonna resist the torque that motor can dish
out, what do you guys do to improve that?
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--- Begin Message ---
Are you racing? If so, how much torques do you expect to make?
This has been discussed thoroughly in the past. They resist it just fine.
E-mail me at home, ev_dave13_at_yahoo.com, if you want sample calcs.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 2:41 PM
> To: EVlist
> Subject: motor mounting
>
> hey rich,otmar,other racers
>
> I was looking at the drawing of the mounting for a ADC 9" or a warp 9"
> and I was concerned about the 4 - 3/8 bolts that go into the face. How
> on earth are those 4 bolts gonna resist the torque that motor can dish
> out, what do you guys do to improve that?
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--- Begin Message ---
Here is a bit of light reading on the subject. :)
http://www2.umist.ac.uk/construction/intranet/teaching/civil%20res/MScSteel/
hsfg2001.pdf
Basically it is the friction between the two surfaces that resists the
torque and not the shear strength of the bolts.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 2:41 PM
To: EVlist
Subject: motor mounting
hey rich,otmar,other racers
I was looking at the drawing of the mounting for a ADC 9" or a warp 9"
and I was concerned about the 4 - 3/8 bolts that go into the face. How
on earth are those 4 bolts gonna resist the torque that motor can dish
out, what do you guys do to improve that?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Basically it is the friction between the two surfaces that resists the
> torque and not the shear strength of the bolts.
Also most people underestimate the strength of fasteners.
EVCC motor hub adapters used 2 1/4"-20 set-screws plus the standard
keyway. EVCC's owner and chief machinist Larry Foster once sat down and
showed me the calculations from the Machinery Handbook. According to
the book the sheer strength of the 1/4-20 Grade 8 setscrew was
2000ft/lbs for a tight tolerance joint (which the hub/shaft joint is).
In theory only one setscrew (drilled into a pocket on the motor shaft)
was needed, the key and additional setscrew were redundant. (You won't
find me trying to prove it though. Even drilling a small pocket into the
motor shaft as Larry recommended, I never figured the joint would be
"tight" enough.)
Mark
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Roland Wiench wrote:
A Isolation transformer would have to be as big as those 10 to 50 KVA
transformer hanging on a pole.
I recently did some work on a BRUSA charger. The HF power transformer
for 3.6kW unit is only about 75 mm (3") OD diameter and and about
50 mm thick.
If you do ISO on 60 Hz side of things, than you indeed get
trandsormer hanging on a pole size. Granted, with 25 kW per phase
you're rather exception from common chargers, but up to 10 kW
total, HF design is well developed and can be used for a charger
isolation without adding much weight/size to it. It sure
cost more, but I don't have to scare my wife (let alone
kids) "don't come even close when this thing is plugged in".
Non-isolated chargers are safe as long as you pay attention
and make no mistakes, just like exposesd bars sticking out of
many motor controllers are safe if you never touch them and you're
the only one who open the hood.
If you have 6-7 year olds wondering around cool EV technology
you better lock up an EV on charge with non-ISO charger, and
it still will keep you at least nervous, let alone liabble.
Of course, everyone has different sense of potential trouble
and different sense of price/benefit ratio, I'll keep away
from discussing this.
In my opinion, non-isolated equipment in general (not only
chargers) is safe for qualified people who assumes responsibility
for using it. Some scopes have no transformers in them, but the
scopes are [hopefully] used by people who understand these
limitations and play accordingly, and that is fine.
NOT average consumer. Remember transformerless TVs? Where are they?
Why? All of us know Murphy's laws.
So why we don't hear anyone who got hurt by PFC chargers?
I think only because people who bought/use it is far better
electrically educated than the average.
Try to sell it through a Wall-mart and see if you hear
anyone complaining.
For good or bad, the more safety hardware has built in, the
more user sloppiness without consequences it allows.
Minimalist's designs sure may perform just as well as UL
regulated pro designs, but aren't as forgiving if something
goes wrong.
Charge safely whatever you use,
My 2 mm.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Found this while searching for something else.
http://www.meltric.com/
Must be something there that would be useful on an EV. Maybe a changer
connector, seen one there that was good for 600 amps at 1000 volts AC or DC.
Have no idea what they cost but I would guess they are not shy.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
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--- Begin Message ---
[a bit behind on my e-mail]
So given this new bit of information of the capacitance present in the
motors, there is something I'm still missing. When the EV is charging,
the motor & inverter are off... so how does this interact with the
isolation of the charger? And why isn't whatever this is also a problem
for hobbyists using non-isolated chargers?
And I'm a bit surprised that ACP would use an non-isolated charger.
Lee Hart wrote:
Most large motors (AC or DC) have a fairly large capacitance between
their windings and their case. With the fast rise/fall times applied by
the inverter, this capacitance creates a considerable amount of ground
current. If you have a non-isolated charger (like AC Propulsion), this
ground current makes it impossible to keep a GFCI from tripping.
AC Propulsion's solution was to unground the motor case. The motor has
to be mounted on electrically isolated mounts, and its shaft has to
likewise have some kind of non-conductive coupler. These isolated
mountings also need to have protective guards and shrouds, so water,
mud, snow, etc, cannot bridge the isolation, and so a person cannot
touch the motor casing while charging.
Meeting these requirements can be quite a challenge!
--
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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Would this work as an add-on to a basic ferro-resonant charger, such as
found in the Elec-Traks? Or does the the charger tend to try and hold a
constant voltage to the point the dv would be too small? The goal being
to add just enough brains for auto-shutoff to eliminate the "wind up the
timer to a position that seems about right".
Lee Hart wrote:
Detecting dv/dt is an interesting alternative. Anderson Power Products
had a clever way to do it. They had a large electrolytic capacitor,
charged thru a resistor from the batteries. An opamp watched the voltage
across that resistor. When the voltage fell below a threshold, the dv/dt
was below a limit. The opamp output changed states, and could be used to
shut off the charger.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
So given this new bit of information of the capacitance present in the
motors, there is something I'm still missing. When the EV is charging,
the motor & inverter are off... so how does this interact with the
isolation of the charger? And why isn't whatever this is also a problem
for hobbyists using non-isolated chargers?
Well, in a Dolphin for example the AC motor windings *are* a part of the
charger. 120 is pumped into one phase and 300 volts comes out the other
two. Or is it 240 is pumped into two phases with 300 volts coming out of
the third; I forget. Point is the motor itself becomes a step-up
transformer for the charging circuit.
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> up to 10 kW total, HF design is well developed and can be used
> for a charger isolation without adding much weight/size to it.
It is well-developed, but also expensive. Rich's PFC charger is
basically a boost converter; 1 transistor, 1 diode, 1 inductor, 1
capacitor. (I know, Rich; you have a *lot* more than this; but I'm just
talking about the basic topology. And, for the sake of simplicity I'm
ignoring buck mode).
To get an *isolated* high-frequency PFC, you need all of this; plus, you
need a full-bridge power stage (2-4 more transistors), and a HF
transformer, and a rectifier (2-4 more diodes), and another inductor and
capacitor. Thus, the number of power components roughly triples. The
price goes up accordingly.
This is the standard 2-stage topology; a boost converter to do the PFC
correction, and a DC/DC converter to provide isolation and adjust the
output voltage. There are some 1-stage topologies, but the design is
tricky; basically no one uses them for high power.
> Non-isolated chargers are safe as long as you pay attention
> and make no mistakes, just like exposesd bars sticking out of
> many motor controllers are safe if you never touch them and you're
> the only one who open the hood.
I think a better way to say it is to follow UL's guidelines for what it
takes to make a non-isolated product safe. Basically, they require that
you build it so it is impossible for the user to touch any live parts
***even when he opens doors and access panels with tools***. This means
things that can't be disassembled (potted, etc.) and/or interlocks that
cut power if anything is opened up.
Second, they require double-insulation. There has to be TWO complete
independent insulation systems, so even if one fails the other can be
depended on to maintain safety.
Third, they require independent testing. The builder can't just *say* it
is safe; it actually has to be tested by an independent party who is
*trying* to create an unsafe condition.
These are tough hurdles; but possible.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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