EV Digest 3443
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: ACPropulsion combo on eBay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) melted trojan 105
by Roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: What happen to my car
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: motor mounting
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: motor mounting
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: ACPropulsion combo on eBay
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: melted trojan 105
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: VERY OT-Ghost Town-should be required viewing
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) New EV on the road
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: license plate frame recommendation
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Solar powered car
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Solar powered car
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Solar powered car
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Solar powered car
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Solar powered car
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: melted trojan 105
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Solar powered car
by Clark Ward Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: melted trojan 105
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: motor mounting
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Solar powered car
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: cutting off pilot shafts
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Neat plugs and connectors.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Solar powered car
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) What happen to my car
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Solar powered car
by Clark Ward Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Solar powered car, comments
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Solar powered car
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: IUI and IU charging algorithms
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Solar powered car, Congrats an' stuff
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Solar powered car, Porche, an' Stuff
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> So given this new bit of information of the capacitance present
> in the motors, there is something I'm still missing. When the EV
> is charging, the motor & inverter are off... so how does this
> interact with the isolation of the charger?
No; ACP uses their inverter as their high-power AC charger. When you
think of it, it makes sense. The inverter provides regen. Regen means
the motor generates AC, which the inverter converts into DC to charge
the battery. So, apply AC from the powerline in place of the motor, and
let the inverter charge the batteries.
> And why isn't whatever this is also a problem for hobbyists
> using non-isolated chargers?
Because (almost) all hobby EVs use separate chargers and motor
controllers. The charger can be isolated. The motor controllers are
never isolated.
> And I'm a bit surprised that ACP would use an non-isolated charger.
See the post I just sent (mind reading again). If you do it right, a
non-isolated charger can be just as safe as an isolated charger.
However, it is a LOT harder to do it right!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been driving my 1980 jet industries ford courier pickup for 6 months
with no troubles and lots of great experiences. Learning the realities of
electric travel (versus the ideas that everyone has.)
1. If you live in a city that is mostly small hills you are lucky to get
25 miles
on a charge. (redondo beach is all up and down)
2. while an e-meter is great to have, a digital voltmeter and digital
ammeter
would have been much cheaper and just as useful.
3. you can't park in public without explaining to folks what it is.
First big problem.
driving up a long hill I abruptly lost power totally. checked under the
hood.
nothing wrong. finally checked the 20 trojan 105's and found the middle
battery (#11) had melted the post completely. My guess is a sudden draw
of more than ?? 400amps did it. Any better judgment as to what happened?
The battery shows only a very minor heat damage (as if a few matches had
been
set off at the top.) voltage is 6.35
What happened?
jolly roger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bernal Heights. In San Francisco. Lawrence Rhodes.........Here is the good
news. http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/513.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 1:51 AM
Subject: Re: What happen to my car
> Man, that looks like a nice car if you could just get rid of the
> rear-end fiasco and floppy driver's seat! I don't know if Will
> Beckett (Palo Alto) lurks on the EVDL, but he had a Solectria
> Force that was crunched on the rear end, and I think he
> successfully managed to get that car fixed up. Or maybe you
> could get Otmar to weld you on a new back end, since he's capable
> of welding ends of Vanagons together for a whole new vehicle. A
> stretch Aspire? :-)
>
> The lady two levels up from me in this apt bldg rolled her rather
> new Mazda Tribute SUV on ice up in the Tahoe area a few months
> ago. From what she said, it was rather crunched in certain
> places. She was driving another car for several weeks, and then
> her SUV reappeared. I've looked at it fairly closely a few
> times, and it looks showroom fresh - they even shined up the
> tires for her. Paint, plastic, everything looks great! While
> I'm not a body shop pro, I can't find a defect on the vehicle.
> So it can be done.
>
> But you need the bucks to do that kind of work or create another
> EV. Sue the guy or whatever it takes! It's his fault, not
> yours, and you shouldn't be hurting for his negligent actions.
>
> Looks like a pretty nice part of SF - what part of town?
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:50 AM
> Subject: Re: What happen to my car
>
>
> > Sue him. Get a judgement and pursue collecting it. Then what
> about finding
> > another nice Aspire and transfer the EV parts? They can't be
> that much
> > anymore. If they are high in CA, come to Phx an you will find a
> bunch and
> > they will probably be cheap. And you got a $ 3,500 leg up.
> David Chapman.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2004 12:19 AM
> > Subject: What happen to my car
> >
> >
> > > Here are the pictures of the Wrecked Aspire. I was thinking
> if there is a
> > > body guy on the list that might want her it might be a good
> deal. I drove
> > > her home. Didn't drive bad at all. I could probably beat
> the dings out
> > but
> > > the right side doors are pinched together and it needs a
> frame
> > strightening.
> > > The rear battery box is crimped slightly. The pack seems ok.
> Charger
> > > works. Seems that this project might be a bit much for me.
> If anyone
> > wants
> > > her for a try let me know. It is a 97 Ford Aspire with 6700
> miles on
> > her.
> > > Trade for Extra cab, B2000 etc...Pickup with a Nine inch
> adapter or make
> > > offer. It just needs body work and the pack is so so. Good
> for 30 to 40
> > > San Francisco miles. If someone could fix her for a few
> thousand let me
> > > know and I'll keep her. I'm open to any suggestions. I'm
> just sick about
> > > it. 10k down the drain. The check from State Farm is 3500
> dollars. Not
> > > enough to fix her right at least that is what the body shop
> says. The
> > > offending driver says sue me. He has no insurance & I didn't
> have enough.
> > > Lawrence Rhodes....
> > >
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-092F.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-093S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-094S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-095S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-096S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-097S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-098S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-099S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-100S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-101S.JPG
> > > http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Wreck/MVC-102S.JPG
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the start. You guys forgot one : 90% of the load is carried
on the first 3 threads. :-)
I was tought NEVER locate on or use bolts in shear.
Accelerate/decelerate over time is gonna slip and without a foot mount I
have to pull everthing apart to tighten them.
Won't a speed bump while under load kinda void the surface friction
theory, like striking a surface to help break free big bolts.
Is most the reaction torque on the main case? and wouldn't the 3/8
course threads rip out of the aluminum?
How much torque? I only have enough money for 1000 amps right now but
2000 some day
The situation is the 300zx has it's stock motor mount really far foward
and I was worried about the weight of the tranny hanging off the motor
if I used a strap, so I was considering an adapter plate that spanned
the bay to motor mounts on the "pseudo" frame of the re-enforced
unibody. But then the motor would hang from the adapter plate. I was
concerned that that would self destruct pretty quickly. That cradle in
the white zombie may offer some ideas.
Thanks for all the help, keep the suggestions coming!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's not exactly what you're looking for, but if you haven't read it, it's
worth reading Bill Dube's timeless commentary on the subject:
http://www.sheer.us/ev/dube.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:02 PM
Subject: RE: motor mounting
> Thanks for the start. You guys forgot one : 90% of the load is carried
> on the first 3 threads. :-)
>
> I was tought NEVER locate on or use bolts in shear.
> Accelerate/decelerate over time is gonna slip and without a foot mount I
> have to pull everthing apart to tighten them.
>
> Won't a speed bump while under load kinda void the surface friction
> theory, like striking a surface to help break free big bolts.
> Is most the reaction torque on the main case? and wouldn't the 3/8
> course threads rip out of the aluminum?
>
> How much torque? I only have enough money for 1000 amps right now but
> 2000 some day
>
> The situation is the 300zx has it's stock motor mount really far foward
> and I was worried about the weight of the tranny hanging off the motor
> if I used a strap, so I was considering an adapter plate that spanned
> the bay to motor mounts on the "pseudo" frame of the re-enforced
> unibody. But then the motor would hang from the adapter plate. I was
> concerned that that would self destruct pretty quickly. That cradle in
> the white zombie may offer some ideas.
>
> Thanks for all the help, keep the suggestions coming!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> Well, in a Dolphin for example the AC motor windings *are* a part
> of the charger. 120 is pumped into one phase and 300 volts comes
> out the other two. Or is it 240 is pumped into two phases with
> 300 volts coming out of the third; I forget. Point is the motor
> itself becomes a step-up transformer for the charging circuit.
Close; the motor isn't a transformer in the normal sense. But it is
providing the inductors to build a normal buck- and boost- converters.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Probably a loose or dirty connection that got hot from too much current.
Thermal cycling causes the lead to creep causing the connections to get
loose.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:59 PM
Subject: melted trojan 105
> I have been driving my 1980 jet industries ford courier pickup for 6
months
> with no troubles and lots of great experiences. Learning the realities of
> electric travel (versus the ideas that everyone has.)
> 1. If you live in a city that is mostly small hills you are lucky to get
> 25 miles
> on a charge. (redondo beach is all up and down)
> 2. while an e-meter is great to have, a digital voltmeter and digital
> ammeter
> would have been much cheaper and just as useful.
> 3. you can't park in public without explaining to folks what it is.
>
> First big problem.
> driving up a long hill I abruptly lost power totally. checked under the
> hood.
> nothing wrong. finally checked the 20 trojan 105's and found the middle
> battery (#11) had melted the post completely. My guess is a sudden draw
> of more than ?? 400amps did it. Any better judgment as to what happened?
>
> The battery shows only a very minor heat damage (as if a few matches had
> been
> set off at the top.) voltage is 6.35
>
> What happened?
>
> jolly roger
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe;
Thank you for the link. Yes. a bit OT but it sure tells a story. As I
drink a fresh glass of water, and can crawl into bed, sleaping , knowing it
is safe and well in CT tonite.Scarry!? You bet. Like the Titanic disaster,
it may help rewrite the rules on things a bit.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Buford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; HPLX Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Zona Smith
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Nathalie Bugeaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Mary Lawson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Bruce Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:38 AM
Subject: VERY OT-Ghost Town-should be required viewing
> Please forgive the Off Topic nature of this post.
> It is not often that I get something that I feel I need to broadcast to
the world, but this is one that I feel I MUST share.
>
> These are scenes from around the Chernobyl as it exists today.
>
> Nothing very horrible, but chilling none the less.
>
> the below email and link describe it well.
>
> Joe Buford
>
> Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2004 23:14:59 -0000
> From: "sgmkevin"
> Subject: A place called ghost town
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/
>
> The above is a link to a site that is very powerful, very moving. It
> is a site that we all should visit to get that much needed dose of
> reality. If you do go, be prepared.
> sgmkevin
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out my new electric vehicle - in storage for 8 years since new, now
reborn on the streets of San Diego:
www.getmsm.com/ev
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:53 PM 04/01/2004 -0800, you wrote:
Maybe someone like john wayland could get a license plate frame that reads
46 horsepower wanna race ?
yea, just plug up your tailpipe to make it fair, then we see how fast you go.
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This story is about a solar powered EV - can a solar panel really collect
enough power to run this vehicle once a day? thanks.
http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2004/04/01/news/03_solar_040401.txt
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, obviously the small solar cell he shows in the picture is more symbolic
than anything. But I think you missed something here - this is a genuinely
pro-EV article, that raises many valid points. Kudos to the author..
I assume that the driver of this EV actually has about 20 square feet of
solar cells stashed somewhere for charging.. ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Waddell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 2:22 AM
Subject: Solar powered car
> This story is about a solar powered EV - can a solar panel really collect
> enough power to run this vehicle once a day? thanks.
>
> http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2004/04/01/news/03_solar_040401.txt
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
No, obviously the small solar cell he shows in the picture is more symbolic
than anything. But I think you missed something here - this is a genuinely
pro-EV article, that raises many valid points. Kudos to the author..
I assume that the driver of this EV actually has about 20 square feet of
solar cells stashed somewhere for charging.. ;-)
Or then, he was testing the knowledge of the reporter who ignored all
cues, like the moon charging the batteries when the panel was covered
with snow. Oh well.
Another generator on wheels, or on the water, as was written about
Solomon Tech. motor system. It is funny but sad how easily fooled the
reporters can sometimes be.
Sad, in that other ignorant people read the articles, get high hopes and
eventually get very disappointed to EV's and PV's when they don't work
"as advertised".
Pekka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:09 AM 04/06/2004 -0700, you wrote:
No, obviously the small solar cell he shows in the picture is more symbolic
than anything. But I think you missed something here - this is a genuinely
pro-EV article, that raises many valid points. Kudos to the author..
It's kind of Gee-whiz, but I still think it's somewhat deceptive to imply
that he never has to plug in to charge, even in a snowfall at night.
brad
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This story is about a solar powered EV - can a solar
> panel really collect
> enough power to run this vehicle once a day? thanks.
absolutely.
one trip a day...to the end of the driveway to pick up
the mail...all for free...energy from the
sun...imagine the utopia.
under good conditions, he might get between 600-900whr
into his batteries per day from the panels on his
roof. So if the Ghia is efficient, he can maybe travel
3-4 miles a day. (actually that still seems too good).
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When installing new batteries for the first time, all the battery terminals
should be torque to manufacture specifications, about every 5 miles, until
they do not loss too much torque.
Then check them once a week and finally monthly.
My Trojan T-145 have low profile terminals with bolt studs. The recommended
torque value for these are 95 to 100 inch lbs.
Before taking delivery of these types of battery, I check the pull out of
terminal stud. Some of them would not go above 90 inch lbs. Bolt studs
would start to pull out and the torque reading would reduce below 75 inch
lbs.
After driving 5 miles, most of the battery connections will go down to about
75 inch lbs. Retorque until them stay at least 95 inch lbs or the
recommended values.
I now used a clamp around the post type of connector using the top bolt stud
as a additional hold down.
I find that a bolt on stud terminal will mushroom the battery terminal. To
prevent this from happening, there was one company that built a battery
terminal taper cone collar that slip over this stud type marine battery
terminal. The bolt stud came through the top.
These units were completely cover in a plastic insulator with fused on
cables.
I have search the web, but could not find them.
Except for weld on battery connection, I used to have at one time, what is
the better or best type of battery connector to used?
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: melted trojan 105
> Probably a loose or dirty connection that got hot from too much current.
>
> Thermal cycling causes the lead to creep causing the connections to get
> loose.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:59 PM
> Subject: melted trojan 105
>
>
> > I have been driving my 1980 jet industries ford courier pickup for 6
> months
> > with no troubles and lots of great experiences. Learning the realities
> > of
> > electric travel (versus the ideas that everyone has.)
> > 1. If you live in a city that is mostly small hills you are lucky to get
> > 25 miles
> > on a charge. (redondo beach is all up and down)
> > 2. while an e-meter is great to have, a digital voltmeter and digital
> > ammeter
> > would have been much cheaper and just as useful.
> > 3. you can't park in public without explaining to folks what it is.
> >
> > First big problem.
> > driving up a long hill I abruptly lost power totally. checked under the
> > hood.
> > nothing wrong. finally checked the 20 trojan 105's and found the middle
> > battery (#11) had melted the post completely. My guess is a sudden draw
> > of more than ?? 400amps did it. Any better judgment as to what
> > happened?
> >
> > The battery shows only a very minor heat damage (as if a few matches had
> > been
> > set off at the top.) voltage is 6.35
> >
> > What happened?
> >
> > jolly roger
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"If a retired janitor can figure this out," he said, "why can't General
Motors do it?", says he...
Because if GM claimed the stuff that he claimed, they'd be in court, that's
why. I agree with Brad about this seeming deceptive.
In principle, it's admirable to have solar panels to charge up your car, but
it'll take more than 6 sqft...
I've been looking at this idea, I want to mount a reasonable sized solar
array on the roof of the straw bale house I'm dreaming of :) But, I think
it'll take quite a few solar panels to charge the car, plus run the house.
I think I'm going to have to stay on the grid for a while...
Crusty sailor Clark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This one's easy - loose connection. Lead cold flows (creeps) over time, so
over time the connections get loose, and you should check them and tighten
them every few months or so.
Sounds like the battery is OK. A good battery place can recast the post.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 1:00 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: melted trojan 105
>
> I have been driving my 1980 jet industries ford courier pickup for 6
> months
> with no troubles and lots of great experiences. Learning the realities of
> electric travel (versus the ideas that everyone has.)
> 1. If you live in a city that is mostly small hills you are lucky to get
> 25 miles
> on a charge. (redondo beach is all up and down)
> 2. while an e-meter is great to have, a digital voltmeter and digital
> ammeter
> would have been much cheaper and just as useful.
> 3. you can't park in public without explaining to folks what it is.
>
> First big problem.
> driving up a long hill I abruptly lost power totally. checked under the
> hood.
> nothing wrong. finally checked the 20 trojan 105's and found the middle
> battery (#11) had melted the post completely. My guess is a sudden draw
> of more than ?? 400amps did it. Any better judgment as to what happened?
>
> The battery shows only a very minor heat damage (as if a few matches had
> been
> set off at the top.) voltage is 6.35
>
> What happened?
>
> jolly roger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, it's the other way around - bolts should be designed to be loaded
in shear - just be sure not to use the threaded portion to carry the shear.
Use the non-threaded portion of the shank.
Yes, for tension, the first few threads are most highly loaded, and you also
have to use the tension area listed in the machinery's handbook to calculate
the tensile stress. It is much less than the area based on the nominal
diameter.
I sent rich Weiss a note yesterday from home with torque calcs. Looks like
I'll have to add tension, fatigue, and aluminum thread pullout calcs, and
post it here. But you'll have to answer this first - how many G's does the
vehicle see instantaneously when you go over a bump?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 1:03 AM
> To: EVlist
> Subject: RE: motor mounting
>
> Thanks for the start. You guys forgot one : 90% of the load is carried
> on the first 3 threads. :-)
>
> I was tought NEVER locate on or use bolts in shear.
> Accelerate/decelerate over time is gonna slip and without a foot mount I
> have to pull everthing apart to tighten them.
>
> Won't a speed bump while under load kinda void the surface friction
> theory, like striking a surface to help break free big bolts.
> Is most the reaction torque on the main case? and wouldn't the 3/8
> course threads rip out of the aluminum?
>
> How much torque? I only have enough money for 1000 amps right now but
> 2000 some day
>
> The situation is the 300zx has it's stock motor mount really far foward
> and I was worried about the weight of the tranny hanging off the motor
> if I used a strap, so I was considering an adapter plate that spanned
> the bay to motor mounts on the "pseudo" frame of the re-enforced
> unibody. But then the motor would hang from the adapter plate. I was
> concerned that that would self destruct pretty quickly. That cradle in
> the white zombie may offer some ideas.
>
> Thanks for all the help, keep the suggestions coming!
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I don't remember the total size off-hand, but Noel Perrin put a bunch of
solar panels up on his barn roof and generated enough electricity to
offset that used by his car AND house. And this was up in Vermont, which
is not exactly known for it's ideal sun conditions.
By staying on the grid, you get to use the utility as a giant storage
battery. That means you size the panels so that over the course of a
entire year you generate as much as you use. During the winter you end
up buying more than you make, but during the summer you sell more than
you use so it all balances out.
Clark Ward Jr wrote:
I've been looking at this idea, I want to mount a reasonable sized solar
array on the roof of the straw bale house I'm dreaming of :) But, I think
it'll take quite a few solar panels to charge the car, plus run the house.
I think I'm going to have to stay on the grid for a while...
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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Nick disassembled the motor/transmission stack last weekend.
There is some evidence the transmission input shaft was wobbling about.
See http://www.driveev.com/temp/clutch/flywheel_shaft1.jpg
The steel spline carrier on the clutch disk ground away a good bit of
the aluminum flywheel. Metal shavings everywhere.
It seems clear that in this case, a pilot shaft was very necessary. I
suspect pilot shafts are like clutchless designs. In some cases you can
eliminate them.. but you never really know if its going to work until
the car is built.
Mark
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Andre Blanchard wrote:
> Found this while searching for something else. http://www.meltric.com/
>
> Must be something there that would be useful on an EV. Maybe
> a changer connector, seen one there that was good for 600
> amps at 1000 volts AC or DC. Have no idea what they cost but
> I would guess they are not shy.
Interesting.
Some on the list may not know that Meltric is the manufacturer of the
Avcon charging station boxes and in-car receptacles
http://www.avconev.com/ used by some OEM EV manufacturers and at public
charging stations. Yet there is no mention of these on Meltric's site
anywhere. Anyone know why?
I remember a conversation with a Meltric rep last year where I was told
that some municipalities have incentives for "green" buildings, and one
of the cheapest ways to meet the requirements was to install Avcon
boxes. Whether there are a significant number of EVs in the area or
not. I think we were discussing the D.C. Metro area at the time, but I
might have that wrong. Maybe worth knowing if there's an office
building or parking garage going up nearby in the future.
Chris
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I'm able to run an Elec-Trak E20 100% solar on three 60 watt panels.
Works fine since I typically use the tractor once a week, and let it
soak up the sun for the rest.
I usually drive my electric car 4 miles or so a day. Technically I would
need an array that could produce 300watts*4miles=1.2kw a day.
Now, there are at least 4 hours of sun per day in Maryland. So I would
need a 300 watt panel pack to do the job. If I was trying to do this
direct I would have some problems since I need to charg the pack at 300
volts nominal and be able to support 375 volts for finishing charges.
Thus the smallest panel array I could reasonable assemble would be:
Solarex SX150's--150 watts, 24 volts per panel=13 panels.
Which would be a 1.950 kw array. At four hours a day we're looking at:
7,800 watt hr per day.
And burning that in the pack (assuming 100% charge efficiency) would
give us:
23 miles a day.
Not too bad. Assume 80% charge efficiency and you're down to 20 miles a
day, totally "free"
Well, sort of. Panels these days cost $3.00 a watt. With no rebates,
your panel cost would be $5850 for the panels and probably another K or
two for the parts. So 7k in cost, assuming you do it yourself (and build
your own super charger)
So let's see: 23 miles a day saves you about a gallon of gas or so a
day. At $2.00 a gallon, we're looking at 350*2.00=$700 a year saved. Now
given that the panels will last 20 years and let's assume the batteries
are a wash with the other car repairs on an ICE (eh), we're looking at a
payback time of 10 years. Assuming gas prices do not go up (they might
not, you never know)
Note these numbers are based on my house, I do get more than four hours
a lot of times, but the calculations seem to serve my Elec-Trak pretty
well.
Some off the wall numbers.
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
I don't remember the total size off-hand, but Noel Perrin put a bunch of
solar panels up on his barn roof and generated enough electricity to
offset that used by his car AND house. And this was up in Vermont, which
is not exactly known for it's ideal sun conditions.
By staying on the grid, you get to use the utility as a giant storage
battery. That means you size the panels so that over the course of a
entire year you generate as much as you use. During the winter you end
up buying more than you make, but during the summer you sell more than
you use so it all balances out.
Clark Ward Jr wrote:
I've been looking at this idea, I want to mount a reasonable sized
solar
array on the roof of the straw bale house I'm dreaming of :) But, I
think
it'll take quite a few solar panels to charge the car, plus run the
house.
I think I'm going to have to stay on the grid for a while...
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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>>> offending driver says sue me. He has no insurance
Hey Lawrence:
God, that sucks, dude. But definitely sue him and when he doesn't cough up
the cash, report the non-satisfaction of judgement to CA DMV.
This dumbass obviously doesn't know that a non-satisfaction of judgement
from uninsured driver enables you to STOP HIM FROM GETTING HIS DL RENEWED!
You will get your money shortly after DMV declines his renewal- trust me.
I've seen it before.
And the dumbass is always SO amazed when it happens (hee hee!).
Nothing like the prospect of no DL to motivate somebody to pay up.
Marv
PS: Only way this doesn't work is if he leaves the state and switches
licenses before his CA renewal. Also, unfortunately (for this situation), SF
has GREAT mass trasit, making the prospect of no DL much less catastrophic
than if he lived, say, down here in LA.
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I'm figuring that gas prices will go up from here... producers (both at
home and abroad) know they've got us where they want us :) It's
$1.70/gallon here in Georgia (I'm told it's 2nd cheapest in the nation), so
I figure that sooner or later, our gas price will rise, if only to keep in
step with the rest of the country.
The car I want to convert (saving money for components) is an old Porsche
914, which I have seen done several times. The SUV that I can't afford to
get rid of yet is guzzling ~$150/month in gas, assuming no long trips.
That's just commuting 5 miles a day, plus running errands! I haven't hashed
out how much I'd save, but charging off the grid at night has got to be
cheaper than buying all that gas!
I have a question for the gurus here online... How great a difference
does having 144VDC vice 120VDC in your battery pack make in acceleration? I
have some hills to deal with in my commute, and since I'm in the planning
stages, I want to get some opinions aside from those in the books.
Thanks!
Crusty sailor Clark
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 5:22 AM
Subject: Solar powered car
> This story is about a solar powered EV - can a solar panel really collect
> enough power to run this vehicle once a day? thanks.
>
> http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2004/04/01/news/03_solar_040401.txt
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
Hi EVerybody;
Nick has a nice efficient conversion, a Ghia, bit it is efficient, but I
take it with a grain of salt here. He is obviously currently, pun intended,
up to date with an EV. Gees! Nick? Are you on the List? Don't go it alone!
Cone on out. Tell us more, like how many sq. feet of solar panels you REALLY
have.Yes, they work. I remember seeing a solar car at Tour de Sol with an
arrasy about twice the size of a ping pong table, unfolded atop the car,
getting a sip of a couple of amps@ about 80 volts. Nice, but it woukldn't
do, except if you lived in the desert, AZ or Fla, and wanted to run down to
the oasis a few miles away. But as a daily driver, before getting yelled at,
if the solar panels are at home, spread out ALL the time, charging a Dump
Pack? Well, there ya go! But they would cost many times more than the car!
Same theory as Ovonic, arent the panel Co. 's owned by Oil Outfits, anyhow?
The idea of you, a Nobody, getting something, like power, FREE, scares the
hell out of the Powers that Be. Hmmm? Maybe a List group purchase of train
car loads of solar arrays?Power of Numbers? Have we thought about this,
guyz?
Good to see Nick has or is getting a position with KTA services. Maybe
he follows us at NEDRA and all that. Come out, guy, and talk to us!
My two watts of On Grid's worth
Bob
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There seems to be a good bit of believable stuff in the article, but
there's enough fishy stuff to make me wonder when it was written....
Gee, it seems it was in the April 1st edition of the Lodi News....
cheers,
Andrew
Brad Waddell wrote:
This story is about a solar powered EV - can a solar panel really
collect enough power to run this vehicle once a day? thanks.
http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2004/04/01/news/03_solar_040401.txt
Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
Plug-in to your QuickBooks data at www.qodbc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> Would this work as an add-on to a basic ferro-resonant charger,
> such as found in the Elec-Traks?
Yes, dv/dt is widely used in large industrial ferroresonant chargers. A
ferroresonant charger's voltage regulation is only so-so; typically
around 2%-3% from 25% to 100% load. At very light load (as when the
batteries are fully charged), the voltage rises quite a bit. The dv/dt
algorithm makes use of this voltage rise, and shuts off the charger.
Actually, the newer ferroresonant industrial chargers took this one step
further. They have *both* dv/dt and di/dt sensing. The charger shuts off
if a) the voltage stops rising and b) the current starts rising. This is
intended to better deal with "outside the box" cases, such as batteries
that are cooling off significantly during the charge, or for deeply
discharged or damaged packs.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Solar powered car
> At 03:09 AM 04/06/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >No, obviously the small solar cell he shows in the picture is more
symbolic
> >than anything. But I think you missed something here - this is a
genuinely
> >pro-EV article, that raises many valid points. Kudos to the author..
Snip, squeeze!
> Hi Brad an' All;
Yes, I sent her a note thanking her for the Pro EV article, told her
about NEDRA and the List the EAA and all that good stuff. and that there is
probably a EAA chapter near her? After all, in CA where there are SEVERAL
EAA chapters in the big towns, LA SF, Sac.
Oh Yeah! Congrats on the Tropica! Looks great in the pix. Glad to see it
going to a loving home! Keep us Posted on your progress!
The Ghia, again.
> It's kind of Gee-whiz, but I still think it's somewhat deceptive to imply
> that he never has to plug in to charge, even in a snowfall at night.
> Good point, but has there been that much progress with Solar Arrays,
that we don't know about<g>!
My two Watts worth
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Clark;
----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Ward Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Solar powered car
Snip a bit!
> I'm figuring that gas prices will go up from here... producers (both at
> home and abroad) know they've got us where they want us :)
You got that right! Here in CT it's hovering around a buck 80 or more.
It's
> $1.70/gallon here in Georgia (I'm told it's 2nd cheapest in the nation),
so
> I figure that sooner or later, our gas price will rise, if only to keep in
> step with the rest of the country.
> The car I want to convert (saving money for components) is an old
Porsche
Good Choice, off the bat!
> 914, which I have seen done several times. The SUV that I can't afford
to
> get rid of yet is guzzling ~$150/month in gas, assuming no long trips.
> That's just commuting 5 miles a day, plus running errands! I haven't
hashed
> out how much I'd save, but charging off the grid at night has got to be
> cheaper than buying all that gas!
> Boy! Are you the Poster Boy for an EV, Sorry, couldn't resist! Your 5
mile commute and short trips make that Porsche look just great. A lite load
of Orbitals, or EVen Golf Cart batteries would go ya for years. You don't
need 1200 lbs of batteries to go 50 miles a day or 480 miles a week, like I
do, I'm off the deep end with EV commuting, but for you, 5 and tenners,
ideal EV country. Yes ya need some amps for the hills, strong controller, A
2k by Otmar or a used Rapter, by DCP Were here to try to advise and help,
lottsa used but good stuff out there if yur on a budget.
> I have a question for the gurus here online... How great a difference
> does having 144VDC vice 120VDC in your battery pack make in acceleration?
I
> have some hills to deal with in my commute, and since I'm in the planning
> stages, I want to get some opinions aside from those in the books.
> OK first off, the 144 volts will give you a lot more punch on hills,
although I'm happy with 120 volts on my 400 amp hills in CT and turnpike
getting into traffic launches. It's a persionnal thing, speed, anyhow. J
Wayland would have fits driving my Rabbit in the speed, and, tire ignition
dept, but I could tow him home after he ran out of juice, and still have
some when I , we, got home. An EV is a very personal type thing. But when
you get it up and running you can adjust it to your expactations.
OK John W,..... yur up!
Seeya
Bob
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