EV Digest 3452
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) An underwater EV
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: cutting off pilot shafts
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: battery power and range
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What's happening in the pack.
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Any San Diego EV'ers up for a Coloradan visit next week?
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Technical Insights: EVs are 99 percent cleaner than ICE)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(Escape hybrid battery chiller maximizes cell efficiency & life)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: An underwater EV
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: got torque?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) ADC dismantling and advice ?
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Why Advanced DC Motors ?
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Why Advanced DC Motors ?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Permanent magnet motor burnouts
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT: PR rant (Escape hybrid) and a little Prius experience
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Subject: Re: got torque?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Subject: Re: got torque?
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) is this true
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Hi amp connections, fuse
by George Tylinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 140 VAC enough for 154 VDC pack?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Why Advanced DC Motors ?
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Permanent magnet motor burnouts
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) re: EVLN(Law to open hov lanes to low mpg SUV hybrids)
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) New! EVent in Port Townsend WA 4/17 and 4/19
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Why Advanced DC motors ?
by "Michael Jaross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: ADC dismantling and advice ?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Permanent magnet motor burnouts
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Permanent magnet motor burnouts
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Why Advanced DC Motors ?, Warfield (Netgain)
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Check out the Scuba Doo, a cute little underwater EV.
http://scuba-doo.com.au/
It is powered by a 12V 72Ah gel cell into a 12V 40A PM motor.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark wrote:
It seems clear that in this case, a pilot shaft was very necessary.
Most manual transmissions for RWD vehicles have their input shaft
supported by one bearing just behind the oil seal in the tranny and
the pilot shaft bearing at the other end. I would not recommend
removing the pilot area from the input shaft on transmission of that
design (even if others have had luck doing so).
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Brian wrote:
which would be better for more range: having one string of 216V or
two strings of 108V? I really don't have the option anymore of just
one string at 216V, as the motor I am planning on using is a
Presolite 4001, and I have heard that the voltage shouldn't exceed
156V, or arcing is a problem. So I am down to having to parallel
the batteries. So if I do parallel, is the best setup having the
parallel strings being the same type of battery as the first string?
Range should be the same either way; however, I believe that a single
string (properly regulated) is a better bet.
You have a choice of both configurations if you are willing to use a
high voltage Zilla. This controller can have its motor voltage max
programmed into it. I recommend you set it no higher than 150 volts
in that department (that is slightly more than a 156 volt pack in
practice). So your motor won't exceed about 150 volts at 900 amps
(quick!) while your battery pack will peak at around 700 amps.
There won't be much zipping with a Curtis controller in a normal
vehicle. Curtis and zip go their separate ways over about 2000lbs,
sorry.
You seem to be getting formulas for range based on lbs of battery so
I'll give you mine :-)
For a vehicle that has 1/3 of its converted weight in lead batteries
expect to the range to be about .05 times the weight of the pack. As
the pack weight percentage varies from 33% adjust the .05 by .001 for
each percent (naturally down if the percentage is less and up if the
percentage is more). After you get your range multiply it .80 to get
the range you can reasonably use (80% of pack capacity for lead acid
battery life). This seems pretty close for common EV AGMs as well as
flooded GC lead. It seems to slightly overestimate the range on
particularly heavy vehicles, and with flooded 12v marine deep cycle
batteries. Remember too, range will drop in the winter.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
However what is happening in the pack when one battery dies early?
Do the other batteries take the damage as well? I can't believe they
are all going down to 10vpc, but what is going on in there which is
causing a reported voltage of 10vpc? Is the resistance of the dead
battery that high? What is limiting the current?
One battery is reading nearly zero volts, perhaps even a reverse
voltage (subtracting from your pack voltage). When that happens the
other battery string sources most of the power (the string with the
stinker is sourcing just enuf to drag its voltage down to the same as
the other string that is providing alot more power) This increases
the pack sag (or reduces the current at a give sag) since the still
good string is seeing a higher current than normal. When one in that
other string chokes they share however they can to keep the same
voltage. Due to low voltage the current is higher, but the other
batteries are likely to be fine, if they have plenty of charge left
(now we must consider what this is doing to charging).
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any San Diego EV'ers,
I'm driving the equipment truck out from Colorado for my son's high school
drumline competition (nationals) and will be in the area ~4-14 through
4-18. If you're available for EV chat and/or show-and-tell, please e-mail
me off-list. I think I'm staying at the Hampton Inn San Diego-Del Mar,
11920 El Camino Real, San Diego, CA 92130. Phone 858-792-5557
Thanks,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Officer with the Denver Electric Vehicle Council
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and racer with The National Electric Drag Racing
Association
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's, but with a dead DCP controller the 15
year-old daughter isn't learning to drive yet!)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Technical Insights: EVs are 99 percent cleaner than ICE)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-04/ti-mbe040804.php
Public release date: 8-Apr-2004
Contact: Pramila Gurtoo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
603-6204-5811
Technical Insights
Multiple benefits enable hybrid vehicles to race ahead of battery
and fuel cell versions
Technical Insights electric and hybrid vehicles in the Asia Pacific
analysis
Palo Alto, Calif.� April 8, 2004 � The popularity of hybrid
vehicles, which combine the beneficial attributes of an internal
combustion engine and a battery pack, offsets the roadblocks
confronting battery, electric, and fuel cell vehicles. With Asia
leading the electric vehicle revolution, intense development efforts
undertaken in this region are likely to promote the hybrid's
mainstream commercialization.
However, there are numerous obstacles to the entry of hybrid
electric vehicles (HEVs) into the mainstream. Long considered purely
environment-friendly, HEVs had, until recently, failed to convince
consumers of their true benefits and performance quality. Removing
negative perceptions such as frequent charging may be the first step
in achieving commercial acceptance.
"HEVs use a unique regenerative braking feature, which captures the
energy lost during braking and returns it to the battery, thereby
eliminating the need for frequent charging," explains Technical
Insights Research Analyst Rajesh Kannan. "HEVs also provide better
mileage, smoother acceleration at lower speeds, and superior driving
experience when compared to gasoline vehicles."
Premium HEV offerings come attached with equally high price tags �
30 to 40 percent more than that for conventional vehicles. However,
significant maintenance and fuel savings make HEVs economical in the
long run. While conventional cars consume 1 liter of fuel to run 15
kilometers, HEVs can run 36 km per liter of fuel.
Battery electric vehicles (BEVs) as opposed to HEV permit a complete
transition to an electricity powered vehicle. However, their key
advantages such as elimination of tailpipe emissions and fuel
savings remain on the sidelines due to numerous battery-related
problems. For instance, batteries used in such vehicles require
constant recharging, wherein, a single charge taking 4 to 5 hours
provides a mileage of just 80 to 130 km. Though the average car
buyer may find this time consuming future increases in mileage up to
160 km on a single charge may be critical in gaining quicker
consumer acceptance.
Moreover, though BEVs are 99 percent cleaner than gasoline-powered
vehicles, they transfer pollution to the power plant site where
burning of fossil fuels generates the energy stored in charging.
Fortunately, alternative renewable energy sources such as wind,
solar, or hydropower may eliminate pollution. The lack of durability
and short lifespan of battery packs threaten to position BEVs as
niche products for intra-city shuttle buses, golf cars, or other
specialized automobiles. Support infrastructure such as fast
charging stations in Japan could play a critical role in
facilitating easier and more convenient battery charging.
"Interesting developments in lithium ion batteries and efforts to
increase battery capacity and decrease battery size and charging
time may be imperative to widen the scope of BEVs," explains Kannan.
"BEVs' commercial compatibility also depends on alternative
technologies such as flywheels, ultracapacitors, and solar cells."
Fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) that use hydrogen to improve fuel economy
and reduce pollution are also creating a buzz in the EV field.
However, a more economical and feasible means to extract, transport,
and store hydrogen may be crucial for commercial success.
Though HEVs, BEVs, and FCVs confront individual challenges, all face
high development costs. Obtaining government support in the form of
incentives for manufacturers and tax breaks to EV owners could be
vital in catalyzing EV development and uptake.
###
Technical Insights is an international technology analysis business
that produces a variety of technical news alerts, newsletters, and
research services.
The Electric and Hybrid Vehicles in the Asia Pacific is part of the
Transportation Vertical Subscription Service, provides a
comprehensive analysis of the present and future development trends
for important members such as HEVs, BEVs, and FCEVs of the electric
vehicles family. It highlights key technical challenges and drivers
influencing growth, and provides in-depth examination of
cutting-edge developments. . Executive summaries and interviews are
available to the press.
Frost & Sullivan, an international growth consultancy, has been
supporting clients' expansion for more than four decades. Our market
expertise covers a broad spectrum of industries, while our portfolio
of advisory competencies includes custom strategic consulting,
market intelligence, and management training. Our mission is to
forge partnerships with our clients' management teams to deliver
market insights and to create value and drive growth through
innovative approaches. Frost & Sullivan's network of consultants,
industry experts, corporate trainers, and support staff spans the
globe with offices in every major country.
Contact:
APAC:
Pramila Gurtoo
DID: (603) 6204 5811
Gen: (603) 6204 5800
Fax: (603) 6201 7402
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
USA:
Julia Paulson
P: 210.247.3870
F: 210.348.1003
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Europe:
Kristina Menzefricke
P: +44 (0) 20 7343 8376
F: +44 (0) 20 7730 3343
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.frost.com
www.technicalinsights.frost.com
The following is the list of key industry participants: Advanced
Transportation Technology R&D Co.; AMM Technologies; Ashok Leyland
Ltd.; Bayerische Motoren Werke AG; Chin Fong Machine Industrial Co.,
Ltd.; Currie Technologies Australia; DAIHATSU MOTOR CO., LTD.;
DaimlerChrysler Corp.; Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd.; Hino Motors,
Ltd.; Honda Motor Co., Ltd.; HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY LTD.; Isuzu
Motors America, Inc.; Japan Storage Battery Co., Ltd.; Kia Motors;
Maruti Udyog Ltd.; Mazda Motor Corp.; Mitsubishi Motors Corp.;
Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.; Reva Reva Car Co.; Shenzhen Powerstar Tech
Co.,Ltd.; Shin-Kobe Electric Machinery Co.,Ltd.; SUCCESS SPORTS;
SUZUKI MOTOR CORPORATION; Toyota Higashi Fuji Technical Center;
TOYOTA MOTOR CORP.; TVS Motor Co.; ULB Corp.; Worley Group Ltd.;
ZhongQiang Power-Tech Co., Ltd. Keywords in this release: electric
vehicles, hybrid electric vehicles, HEVs, battery electric vehicles,
BEVs, fuel cell vehicles, FCEVs, regenerative braking, tailpipe
emissions, battery pack, fast charging stations, lithium ion
batteries, flywheels, ultracapacitors, solar
-
=====
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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Escape hybrid battery chiller maximizes cell efficiency & life)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-08-2004/0002148725&EDATE=
Visteon Innovation Helps Distinguish New Vehicles Showcased at New
York Auto Show DEARBORN, MI USA 12/16/2002
DEARBORN, Mich., April 8 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Visteon
Corporation applies its innovation and customer focus to deliver a
variety of distinctive features that help differentiate several
customers' new 2005 models showcased at the New York Auto Show,
opening April 9 at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center.
The challenge for all automotive suppliers is to understand each
automaker's design intent and brand image for each vehicle, then
deliver innovative technology quickly. Visteon is uniquely
positioned to deliver fast and flexibly on innovations that help a
vehicle stand out from the crowd.
[...]
Visteon contributes to powertrain, engine cooling and navigation
system on Hybrid Escape
Ford Motor Co. will introduce the 2005 Hybrid Escape in New York,
and Visteon played an important role in key modules and systems of
Ford's first hybrid-electric vehicle.
These include the front-end cooling module, which integrates three
heat exchangers within existing package space.
A low temperature radiator assures motor electronics are kept cool.
A hi-capacity condenser, along with the latest in thin radiators,
assures all cooling functions: engine cooling, electronics cooling
and battery cooling.
A battery chiller maintains optimum battery cell temperature to
maximize efficiency and life.
The powertrain control module analyzes sensor signals to make
instantaneous decisions to optimize powertrain performance, fuel
economy and emissions.
Visteon also supplies the navigation head unit.
The Visteon Navigation Radio integrates an audiophile radio with a
navigation system in a single box with a 3.8-inch by 5-inch screen.
The VNR provides accurate route guidance with graphic and voice
directions.
The Hybrid Escape's Navigation Radio has special screens for
monitoring energy flow and fuel economy.
They allow the driver to see the energy direction and intensity
through easy-to-understand icons for the engine, battery and
electric motor.
Visteon Corporation is a leading full-service supplier that delivers
consumer-driven technology solutions to automotive manufacturers
worldwide and through multiple channels within the global automotive
aftermarket. Visteon has about 72,000 employees and a global
delivery system of more than 180 technical, manufacturing, sales and
service facilities located in 25 countries.
SOURCE Visteon Corporation Web Site: http://www.visteon.com Photo
Notes: NewsCom:
http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20001201/DEF008LOGO PRN Photo
Desk, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=====
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Finally someone figured out how to take all the fun out of swimming.
Brett
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Mark Fowler
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 3:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: An underwater EV
Check out the Scuba Doo, a cute little underwater EV.
http://scuba-doo.com.au/
It is powered by a 12V 72Ah gel cell into a 12V 40A PM motor.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe it was 360ish ft-lb from 2000A on an 8". But not at 5000 rpm.
Does a torque speed curve for 8" and 9" even exist for EV voltages? Or
do we have a few data points and some wicked inter/extrapolation...
Seth
On Apr 8, 2004, at 4:02 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
The AC Propulsion 150 KW drive (ie the thing on eBay) has a "maximum
torque of 223.8 N-m @ 0 – 5,000 rpm", which if my math is right is 165
ft-lbs.
I seem to recall people talking about numbers of around 200 ft-lbs of
torque from a DC motor on a 1000 amp controller and 400 ft-lbs with a
2000 amp controller. Or maybe it was 400 ft-lbs per 1000, so 800 from
2000 amps?
Are these numbers in the right ballpark for a valid comparison?
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello,
So in preparation for installing my 9 inch motor, I
spun it up with 6 V in the bench.
It spins slowly, but there is a scraping sound. I
guess this isn't totally surprising since the motor
has been sitting on my garage floor for about 1.5
years and was sitting for half a year un used before
that, but i don't know how much of it is ok or will go
away with use.
Partly to investigate the scraping and partly to learn
about the motor, I took the brush end off the motor to
do an inspection. As far as I can tell (to my
untrained eye) the brushes themselves look pretty
good. They are evenly worn and there isn't much
oxidation on the comm. surface.
the scraping sounds like it is coming from the
interference between the rotor and stator insulation
(forgive me if i missuse terms cause my motor
knowledge is limited). Is this normal ? Is there
supposed to be any contact there ?
also, the rear bearing feels pretty stiff. This motor
was in daily (light) use for about 3 years in my jetta
and now has been sitting for about a year. do you guys
think the bearing may need to be replaced ? There is
some light scoring on the inner shaft which makes me
think that at some point the shaft was spinning in the
inner bearing race.
can anyone give me an idea of what a normal service
life for some of these parts is ?
Anything else I should look at before dropping this
motor in the car so I can avoid pulling it back out in
the next few months/years ?
Is there any value in just running the motor at low
speed for an hour to 'break in' the various parts
again ?
I have some photos, but i can't get them uploaded
right now since I can't find my camera cable.
thanks for the advice.
~Fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim,
I just spoke yesterday with George at NetGain about their motors.
Someone who has first hand experience is John Wayland with his white White
Zombie. He has two 8" inch NetGain motors in his car. He's been doing quite
a bit or racing with these motors.
NetGain also has two of their larger motors in their dragster, Bad
Amplitude.
They are also making a smaller 6 and/or 7 inch motor as well.
Here is there latest number, 630-257-3087, for more info.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
On 4/8/04 6:01 PM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:02:36 -0400
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Why Advanced DC Motors ?
>
> Can you set your e-mail software to plain text so we don't get things
> like "* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *"?
>
> As for the motors, ADC has been used as it is just about the only thing
> close to matching our needs. At least in the DC world. I had been eyeing
> the Kostov motor (with interpoles) as a better choice, at least for
> those of us with larger vehicles, but more recent reports show that it
> may be a little too easy to destroy.
>
> Netgain makes a clone of the ADC 8" and 9" motors that have beefed up
> brushes, insulation, etc. Seth has one destined for his new conversion,
> but I haven't heard a lot of first hand reports from anyone with such a
> motor already in use.
>
>
> --- original message ---
> OK, one step at a time. Would anyone be willing to briefly explain why
> the Advanced DC motors are preferred for EVs. What is their primary
> (industrial) application ? Are there sources for used/rebuilt motors?
> What are some alternatives, or is the Advanced motor truly superior and
> should be bought new, no questions asked? Thanks, Michael
>
>
>
> --
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> 1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
> http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:21 AM 4/8/04 -0700, you wrote:
OK, one step at a time. Would anyone be willing to briefly explain why
the Advanced DC motors are preferred for EVs. What is their primary
(industrial) application ? Are there sources for used/rebuilt
motors? What are some alternatives, or is the Advanced motor truly
superior and should be bought new, no questions asked? Thanks, Michael
Although ADC build motors for many industrial applications, the motors we
use in cars are built to be used in cars. When ADC first started business,
they came to those of us in the conversion business and presented one of
their motors for evaluation, then asked how it would need to be changed for
our purposes. From that, they made many significant design changes and
refinements specifically for EV drive motors.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, this is odd.
I pulled the Elec-Trak's mower deck out of the shed the other day and
put away the snowblower. It has been stored on it's side, dry location,
etc all winter.
Fired it up. One of the three motors (36 volt PM motors) fired up no
problem; the other two would start to spin and their thermo breakers
would trip (overload).
They spin by hand, and with the deck disconnected from the tractor
spinning any one of them will cause the other two to spin as well (they
are all in parallel). I checked the brushes on one and it's fine.
When I tried bypassing the breaker for a second the motor ran at speed
but was pulling *WAY* too much current. I shut it down.
What would cause this sort of thing, and why to two motors in a row?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alan Batie wrote:
charged a few times though. It's *so* close! I'm really hoping that
one of the Prius hackers figures out getting the EV mode button wired in...
They Have!! http://www.definity-systems.net/Transportation/Hybrid/Prius/
They are not working on Extra Battery Capcity (without throwing errors)
After that, they'll be tackeling the grid-charging of those extra
batteries. They already have a "Method" for doing this aswell!
The extra batteries, when tied through the existing current sensor which
is built into the battery module, seem to work almost perfectly.
Amazingly enough the Prius BMS seems to adapt itself to the extra
capacity. So the capacity isn't "hard coded" into the systems!
The Charging will work, as long as the BMS is up and running as the
current flows into the batteries through the stock current sensor!
If the BMS is off, then it gets mad about mysterous changes in SOC.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
I believe it was 360ish ft-lb from 2000A on an 8". But not at 5000 rpm.
Does a torque speed curve for 8" and 9" even exist for EV voltages? Or do
we have a few data points and some wicked inter/extrapolation...
EV Parts has torque curves for 8" and 9" motors @ EV voltages (and other
info) posted on their site.
8" here-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=536&product_id=1120
9" here-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=536&product_id=1128
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for information
and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So the 8" makes 20 ft-lb at 5000 RPM. And the AC propulsion makes
165ft-lb at 5000. Ok, 3 times the voltage and all that. Anyone have a
156V or 180V curve for a 9"?
For a real surprise, look at power in versus power out a high power.
120V in (they say) at 900A makes 84hp. With 144 hp going in, assuming
no voltage drop in their test rig. I sure hope the source is sagging to
more like 90V under a 900A load.
Seth
On Apr 8, 2004, at 10:26 PM, Roy LeMeur wrote:
Seth wrote:
I believe it was 360ish ft-lb from 2000A on an 8". But not at 5000
rpm. Does a torque speed curve for 8" and 9" even exist for EV
voltages? Or do we have a few data points and some wicked
inter/extrapolation...
EV Parts has torque curves for 8" and 9" motors @ EV voltages (and
other info) posted on their site.
8" here-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?
id=536&product_id=1120
9" here-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?
id=536&product_id=1128
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for
information and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I could get a better accelerating vehicle with 2 - 8 inch motors, zilla
1K and a series parallel switch than a 9" and a zilla 2k
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello - I noticed this fuse holder has setscrew connections to
the cable rather than posts:
http://www.ferrazshawmut.com/products/pdf_107/CLASST.pdf
It looks like it might reduce voltage drop and energy loss on
each fuse, and somewhat increase the thermal mass at the fuse.
(compared to ring terminals and studs)
Is this suitable for EV use, assuming it can be kept from
getting splashed?
=====
GT / 73 Midget / Portland, OR
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
elaine chiu wrote:
> anyhow, if the actual peak VAC is higher than the 140 I can get out of
> a variac, would a 110 to 140 VAC variac be enough to charge my new/used
> pickup with 154 VDC pack?
The winding on most "120vac" variacs actually goes to about 132vac (10%
higher than the nominal voltage) So if you put 120vac in, you can get
132vac out.
The peak of 132vac is 185vdc (132 x 1.4 = 185). So 185vdc is the most
you can get; and that only with an honest 120vac input and essentially
zero charging current output.
A 154vdc lead-acid pack has 154/2=77 cells. This seems highly unlikely;
batteries usually come with even numbers of cells (6v=3, 8v=4, 12v=6).
But, just in case you are using individual cells and really do have 77
of them, 185vdc/77 cells = 2.40v/cell. This is too low to reach full
charge.
You want your charger to be able to reach 2.5v/cell. 185vdc/2.5v=74
cells, which is a 148v pack. As a practical matter, a 144v pack is the
most that this variac-rectifier could charge.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From what I have experienced the new management team at Advanced DC
are even more pro EV than their predesessors.
Roderick
Suck Amps EV Racing
At 11:21 AM 4/8/04 -0700, you wrote:
OK, one step at a time. Would anyone be willing to briefly explain
why the Advanced DC motors are preferred for EVs. What is their
primary (industrial) application ? Are there sources for
used/rebuilt motors? What are some alternatives, or is the
Advanced motor truly superior and should be bought new, no
questions asked? Thanks, Michael
Although ADC build motors for many industrial applications, the
motors we use in cars are built to be used in cars. When ADC first
started business, they came to those of us in the conversion
business and presented one of their motors for evaluation, then
asked how it would need to be changed for our purposes. From that,
they made many significant design changes and refinements
specifically for EV drive motors.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about : Moisture got in the bearings and rusted them on those two and
the other escaped unscathed? David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: Permanent magnet motor burnouts
> Ok, this is odd.
>
> I pulled the Elec-Trak's mower deck out of the shed the other day and
> put away the snowblower. It has been stored on it's side, dry location,
> etc all winter.
>
> Fired it up. One of the three motors (36 volt PM motors) fired up no
> problem; the other two would start to spin and their thermo breakers
> would trip (overload).
>
> They spin by hand, and with the deck disconnected from the tractor
> spinning any one of them will cause the other two to spin as well (they
> are all in parallel). I checked the brushes on one and it's fine.
>
> When I tried bypassing the breaker for a second the motor ran at speed
> but was pulling *WAY* too much current. I shut it down.
>
> What would cause this sort of thing, and why to two motors in a row?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
45 mpg is a low mpg SUV?
------
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 14:50:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EVLN(Law to open hov lanes to low mpg SUV hybrids)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
EVLN(Law to open hov lanes to low mpg SUV hybrids)
_________________________________________________________________
Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for information
and advice. http://gerd.msn.com/default.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well... I bet Roderick is planning on posting this, but... (you always seem
to wait till the last minute Rod, didja double-check your SOC? Seriously,
we appreciate all that you do Rod! :^D) here ya go...
Sat/Sun, April 17-18, join the fun of Earth Day Every Day!, a 'first annual'
local celebration devoted to the joy of learning about living sustainably
together on the planet.
Check out- www.olympus.net/earthday then put it on your calendars. Plan to
spend the weekend building stronger renewabable communities, Saturday
morning with Main Street's down/uptown clean-up, speakers/events at Pope
Marine Park Building , and ALL DAY Sunday with hands-on
projects/games/demos/food and entertainment at Memorial Field. Electric
vehicles, biodiesel fuel, green building practices, sustainable agriculture,
kids activities, much more, all fun. Ample opportunity to volunteer if you
want to get involved, or have a booth.
See what's what on the Events page at www.olympus.net/earthday More info,
Judy at 385-5766 or email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Roderick's Discovery Channel show will air on 5/2/04 at 8:00pm. "Suck Amps
EV Racing" will showcase the "Gone Postal" drag racer EV. Don't Miss it!
Gone Postal and Roderick will also be at the Lacey Alternative Fuel Fair and
Electrathon Grand Prix in Lacey, WA. on 5/8/04
Be There!
Contact Roderick at- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.evparts.com
-end shameless promo- :^D
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee�
Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, one step at a time. Would anyone be willing to briefly explain why the
Advanced DC motors are preferred for EVs. What is their primary
(industrial) application ? Are there sources for used/rebuilt motors? What
are some alternatives, or is the Advanced motor truly superior and should be
bought new, no questions asked? Thanks, Michael
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After three years in service then sitting around for a while I would think
that refreshing the bearings is a good idea and cheap insurance,
(electrolytic reaction and such will occur) ADC's design makes this pretty
easy, bearings can usually be found at a NAPA or other auto parts store.
Let it run for a few hours at low voltage to insure good brush seating and
inspect before installing.
Fortunat Mueller wrote:
So in preparation for installing my 9 inch motor, I
spun it up with 6 V in the bench.
It spins slowly, but there is a scraping sound. I
guess this isn't totally surprising since the motor
has been sitting on my garage floor for about 1.5
years and was sitting for half a year un used before
that, but i don't know how much of it is ok or will go
away with use.
Partly to investigate the scraping and partly to learn
about the motor, I took the brush end off the motor to
do an inspection. As far as I can tell (to my
untrained eye) the brushes themselves look pretty
good. They are evenly worn and there isn't much
oxidation on the comm. surface.
the scraping sounds like it is coming from the
interference between the rotor and stator insulation
(forgive me if i missuse terms cause my motor
knowledge is limited). Is this normal ? Is there
supposed to be any contact there ?
also, the rear bearing feels pretty stiff. This motor
was in daily (light) use for about 3 years in my jetta
and now has been sitting for about a year. do you guys
think the bearing may need to be replaced ? There is
some light scoring on the inner shaft which makes me
think that at some point the shaft was spinning in the
inner bearing race.
can anyone give me an idea of what a normal service
life for some of these parts is ?
Anything else I should look at before dropping this
motor in the car so I can avoid pulling it back out in
the next few months/years ?
Is there any value in just running the motor at low
speed for an hour to 'break in' the various parts
again ?
I have some photos, but i can't get them uploaded
right now since I can't find my camera cable.
thanks for the advice.
~Fortunat
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Free up your inbox with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! Multiple plans available.
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-us&page=hotmail/es2&ST=1/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Permanent magnet motor burnouts
> How about : Moisture got in the bearings and rusted them on those two and
> the other escaped unscathed? David Chapman.
> I just tore down a mower motor off one of my decks, bearings rusted solid,
brushes stuck in holders, but it TRIED to run!
Seeya
Bob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:25 PM
> Subject: Permanent magnet motor burnouts
>
>
> > Ok, this is odd.
> >
> > I pulled the Elec-Trak's mower deck out of the shed the other day and
> > put away the snowblower. It has been stored on it's side, dry location,
> > etc all winter.
> >
> > Fired it up. One of the three motors (36 volt PM motors) fired up no
> > problem; the other two would start to spin and their thermo breakers
> > would trip (overload).
> >
> > They spin by hand, and with the deck disconnected from the tractor
> > spinning any one of them will cause the other two to spin as well (they
> > are all in parallel). I checked the brushes on one and it's fine.
> >
> > When I tried bypassing the breaker for a second the motor ran at speed
> > but was pulling *WAY* too much current. I shut it down.
> >
> > What would cause this sort of thing, and why to two motors in a row?
> >
> > Chris
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mmmm.... If the bearings were rusted one would think I would feel it by
turning by hand. And the fact that turning one causes all to turn makes
me believe they are all turning freely.
Chris
David Chapman wrote:
How about : Moisture got in the bearings and rusted them on those two and
the other escaped unscathed? David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: Permanent magnet motor burnouts
Ok, this is odd.
I pulled the Elec-Trak's mower deck out of the shed the other day and
put away the snowblower. It has been stored on it's side, dry location,
etc all winter.
Fired it up. One of the three motors (36 volt PM motors) fired up no
problem; the other two would start to spin and their thermo breakers
would trip (overload).
They spin by hand, and with the deck disconnected from the tractor
spinning any one of them will cause the other two to spin as well (they
are all in parallel). I checked the brushes on one and it's fine.
When I tried bypassing the breaker for a second the motor ran at speed
but was pulling *WAY* too much current. I shut it down.
What would cause this sort of thing, and why to two motors in a row?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a 9" Warfield motor (Netgain rep) in my electric Jeep (96'Geo Tracker
3900 lbs 120Vdc) and it's been working well for the last 43k miles. It's my
regular vehicle that I drive 50-60 miles a day to & from work, pick up
Wiggles at daycare and goto hardware/Radio Shack at lunch. We also use it
for hiking, dinner and church on the week-ends. About 300 miles per week or
15.6k per year.
I've used ADC motors also for the last 20 years without any problems. My
last 8" in the Electro-Metro went about 100k miles before needing brush
replacement. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2004 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: Why Advanced DC Motors ?
> Can you set your e-mail software to plain text so we don't get things
> like "* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *"?
>
> As for the motors, ADC has been used as it is just about the only thing
> close to matching our needs. At least in the DC world. I had been eyeing
> the Kostov motor (with interpoles) as a better choice, at least for
> those of us with larger vehicles, but more recent reports show that it
> may be a little too easy to destroy.
>
> Netgain makes a clone of the ADC 8" and 9" motors that have beefed up
> brushes, insulation, etc. Seth has one destined for his new conversion,
> but I haven't heard a lot of first hand reports from anyone with such a
> motor already in use.
>
>
> --- original message ---
> OK, one step at a time. Would anyone be willing to briefly explain why
> the Advanced DC motors are preferred for EVs. What is their primary
> (industrial) application ? Are there sources for used/rebuilt motors?
> What are some alternatives, or is the Advanced motor truly superior and
> should be bought new, no questions asked? Thanks, Michael
>
>
>
> --
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> 1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
