EV Digest 3454
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Extension cord?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Controller isoaltion (Re: ACPropulsion combo on eBay)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Modified Rudman Regs
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) re: 140 AC variac for 156 VDC pack, not 154
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: DC Regen
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: DC Regen
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: DC Regen
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) unsubscribe
by "Diana Trevino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(Frost & Sullivan's Technical Insights)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 2 8inch vs 1 9"
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Why Advanced DC motors ?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Insight on E-Bay for $4500 (Glider + Genset)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: DC Regen
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV digest 3451
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Modified Rudman Regs
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DC Regen
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Modified Rudman Regs
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) 8" blues and stuck with an adapter plate. Suggestions. I am on a shoestring.....
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DC Regen
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 8" blues and stuck with an adapter plate. Suggestions.
I am o n a shoestring.....
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: DC Regen
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Stuff for sale
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
On 8 Apr 2004 at 13:05, Ryan Bohm wrote:
> "A receptacle outlet is required outdoors at grade level at the front
> and back of each one-family dwelling and each unit of a two-family
> dwelling. (These receptacles must have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
> protection.)"
>
> at https://www.nfpa.org/nec/TheNEC/index.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1
>
> Do you think I could use this as leverage to get an outlet outside?
The code normally applies to new construction. If the home you live in was
built before the code required such a receptacle, probably not. On older
structures, the code usually only requires compliance with current code when
major upgrades are performed, such as rewiring.
But if the landlord ^removed^ the outside receptacle, IMO he removed the
structure from code compliance. I'm not an attorney or an inspector, so my
opinion in this matter isn't worth much, but if you can get the owner's
insurance agent to agree, you might have a leg to stand on.
A related question is how the receptacle was removed. Was it done in a safe
manner? There current code DOES apply.
In many or most cities, some jurisdiction (such as the health department)
regulates rental housing. They sometimes require safety related electrical
updates for older properties (I know this because I've had to have them done
on properties I've owned). Those updates are usually ones dealing with
minimum service size, breakers vs. fuses, and provision of GFIs in the
kitchen, bath, basement, and outdoors. You could try calling them, but they
might not consider the absence of an exterior receptacle a big enough deal
to bother with.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
All we learn from history is history repeats.
-- Andrew Ratshin
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The equipment safety ground (groundING conductor), not the neutral line
(groundED conductor) is supposed to be connected to the vehicle chassis.
Yes, it is bonded to the neutral (more properly vice versa) at the first
disconnect after the meter.
Yes, this means that with a nonisolated charger one battery connection is
"hot" relative to the vehicle chassis when charging.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this
to all thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I
smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
Knowing that I wanted to 'tweak' the normal installation of Rudman
Regulators, I have bought bare boards to assemble myself. The 'tweaks' are
primarily two discrete items, and I would like to know if anyone else has
done similar and had any problems or can report success.
First 'mod': temperature compensation sensor.
As designed the sensor is on the PCB. Since my PCBs are not going to be in
the same enclosure as the batteries, this would be less than useful. So I
am going to put the diodes off on lengths of screened cable that is rated
for 500V, and mount them on the respective battery. Has anyone done this,
and were there any problems?
Second 'mod': bypass heat recovery (this one is a lot more complex).
I would like to recover bypass heat as battery heating, plus use the
temperature comparator to select recovery or waste resistors, and control
'mains' powered heating once the batteries are finished charging. Under
each group of batteries there will be an aluminium plate to distribute the
heat across the battery bases.
The PCB has two power FETs designed onto the board, and a temperature
comparator. This 'mod' consists of taking the thermistors off the PCBs and
putting them on the battery heating plates, taking the output of the
temperature comparator to some logic on a daughter PCB, and driving one or
other of the output FETs depending on temperature.
The on-board resistor pass transistor Q1 lends itself to be reconfigured to
be the 'modified' output, the other left as is. On the heater plate there
would be two sets of resistors - one to be bypass resistor when the plate
is below set temp and charging has not completed, the other to be 'mains'
powered to heat the batteries once charging is completed. A second set of
bypass resistors (or the only set if heat recovery is unadvisable) will be
mounted on a 'waste' heatsink mounted with fins on the outside of the
enclosure.
The daughter PCBs will also have optically isolated repeating of the
undervoltage and regulating LEDs, plus the status of the heating.
The only catch that I can see is that if the batteries are cold, then as
soon as the bypassing starts, the bottom of the cells are at a different
temperature to the top of the cells (Orbital Bluetops) and so will end up
at a different SOC. So it may be better to inhibit heating during charging
and use the temperature comparator as described but to only to switch the
mains heating (this would save a lot of work that may be counter-productive).
Comments?
Thanks
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
'78 Daihatsu 1300kg truck under conversion.
So far completed: cab bodywork,
De-ICEing and chassis cleanup,
Dashboard instruments not in cluster,
Brake upgrade (vacuum booster fitted),
Ceramic heater fitted,
Later model seats fitted,
Motor mount and adaption to gearbox.
In progress: Battery enclosure,
Motor mods (balancing etc.),
Instrument cluster modifications,
Charging system,
Upholstery,
Wiring (low voltage),
Not yet started:
Flat tray,
Wiring (high voltage).
and a lot of other minor stuff.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Apr 2004 at 13:48, elaine chiu wrote:
> I plan to change over to 6v cells ...
Unless you're talking about some kind of new chemistry, you mean 6 volt
^batteries^ (or modules or blocks). Lead acid cells are 2 volts.
When more than one cell is fixed in an assembly, the whole called a battery.
Typically with lead acid these are 3, 4, or 6 cell assemblies. But since
it's not uncommon (especially in Europe) to call the whole pack a battery,
the terms module or block are often applied to a fixed, manufactured
assembly of cells.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
All we learn from history is history repeats.
-- Andrew Ratshin
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
You still get rotary motion when the car is still moving. The car does not
stop dead in its track everytime you let up on the accelerator!
Moving powered by what? Or you only mean slowing down due to inertia?
Then, your DC-DC output is very unstable and do dead as soon as
you stop (unless you itle your motor in which case the energy
does come from your main pack.
Think of it this way - ALL the energy in your car (for motion,
DC-DC or whatever) comes from the pack, bno matter how you look at it.
To get the car in motion in a first you needed the pack energy,
and some extra energy if you also ran DC-DC, silicon or
rotary converter. Without DC-DC your inertia could of gotten you
farther, so now to get to the same distance you spend extra
energy from your pack. There is no other sourse - inertia is
another form of energy still taken out of your main pack.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2004-04-09 at 18:23, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > Hello Dave,
> ...
> > Instead of using a DC to DC convertor off the main battery, which may drive
> > these units all the time, the main motor drives these units when the vehicle
> > is moving at times with no battery power.
> ... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Then where do you think the main motor gets its power from
> when it runs your rotary converter (which replaces
> traditional DC-DC)?
Can you say "REGEN"?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The rotary inverter always stay above 1000 rpm, which is driven by 2 to 1
ratio from a motor that can get down to 500 rpm.
The only time the rotary inverter gets down 0 rpm, is when I shut off the
ignition, open the door and get out.
The down hill inertia from work to my home, increases the speed from 35 mph
at top of hill and speeds get up to 75 mph at bottom, which propell me about
another two miles, right into my garage with no additional battery power to
the motor.
All the accessories are being driven at this time.
If in the winter, if it is very icy, I can turn on all the heaters plus the
battery charger REGEN, which slows the EV down like a ICE.
This EV used to have a DC to DC converter to drive all the accessories
units, but was too dangerous to drive down this hill under these conditions.
In the winter, all the tires are studed. I can walk right up a icy hill at
30 mph, while all the ICE vehicles were creeping up at 20 mph and slipping
all over the place and in the ditches.
This system has been working great for the last 15 years.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: DC Regen
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> > You still get rotary motion when the car is still moving. The car does
> > not
> > stop dead in its track everytime you let up on the accelerator!
> >
> Moving powered by what? Or you only mean slowing down due to inertia?
> Then, your DC-DC output is very unstable and do dead as soon as
> you stop (unless you itle your motor in which case the energy
> does come from your main pack.
>
> Think of it this way - ALL the energy in your car (for motion,
> DC-DC or whatever) comes from the pack, bno matter how you look at it.
> To get the car in motion in a first you needed the pack energy,
> and some extra energy if you also ran DC-DC, silicon or
> rotary converter. Without DC-DC your inertia could of gotten you
> farther, so now to get to the same distance you spend extra
> energy from your pack. There is no other sourse - inertia is
> another form of energy still taken out of your main pack.
>
> Victor
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
unsubscribe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And Detroit press releases are fed by the Automakers.
Exactly my point Bob, and why I put all these newswire out
for the public to see. We need to see their pattern and
remember their past methods being used again.
We were manipulated before the 90's, during the 9's EV
hoopla, and now during the post hoopla/pre-
hybrid & fcv hoopla. Meanwhile automakers bank ICE vehicle
profits.
It is amazing the power the press has over the public, and
even more amazing how much power oil/auto money has over
the press.
Support CARB standards, else Oil/Auto will get their way
and put anything called a hybrid into the hov lanes.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So if I only had money for a zilla 1 k and could get 2 8" for the price
of a warp 9, the quicker EV would be dualing 8"
Kinda like a 2 speed series wound motor, hummm, perhaps there's a
concept for a dragrace motor worthy of NetGains attention. it would
have 6 posts and you just put the contactor in if you have the
controller for it. :-)
2 motors adds the series/paralell option, does that outweight the larger
motor capabilities.
I guess it is just simple math 23+23 = 46 vs 28
Is it less or more efficient?, provideing lossless coupling
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My last 6 motor's have been Net gain , There 9" motor has wider brushes ,
this dose make the motor 1/2 inch longer . When I bought the 8" motor to do
the 2 motor set up for Paul's car ( Which I have just started :-) ) I asked
Net gain , if I could get a bigger tail shaft as I was ( and am ) planning
on hooking them back to front driving the tail shaft of the motor on the
tranny with other motor . They gave me a bigger tail shaft and at no extra
cost.
----- Original Message -----
Are there sources for used/rebuilt motors?
There are motors on the trader , and some are new , probable from project
that never got finished , :-(
stevs clunn
From: "Michael Jaross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 1:38 AM
Subject: Why Advanced DC motors ?
> OK, one step at a time. Would anyone be willing to briefly explain why
the
> Advanced DC motors are preferred for EVs. What is their primary
> (industrial) application ? Are there sources for used/rebuilt motors?
What
> are some alternatives, or is the Advanced motor truly superior and should
be
> bought new, no questions asked? Thanks, Michael
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would buy it, but it went past my $3K limit, how sad is that.
I still owe more on mine than this one is going for.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2472613944&category=31839
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland Wiench wrote:
The rotary inverter always stay above 1000 rpm, which is driven by 2 to 1
ratio from a motor that can get down to 500 rpm.
The only time the rotary inverter gets down 0 rpm, is when I shut off the
ignition, open the door and get out.
The down hill inertia from work to my home, increases the speed from 35 mph
at top of hill and speeds get up to 75 mph at bottom, which propell me about
another two miles, right into my garage with no additional battery power to
the motor.
All the accessories are being driven at this time.
Ah, I didn't know one way is only downhill. Then for downhill ride
you don't need the batteries in your EV at all. Energy "saved" on
downhill is wasted when you go uphill. If you can recharge in the
middle, this of course voids net round trip equasion.
If in the winter, if it is very icy, I can turn on all the heaters plus the
battery charger REGEN, which slows the EV down like a ICE.
This EV used to have a DC to DC converter to drive all the accessories
units, but was too dangerous to drive down this hill under these conditions.
In the winter, all the tires are studed. I can walk right up a icy hill at
30 mph, while all the ICE vehicles were creeping up at 20 mph and slipping
all over the place and in the ditches.
This system has been working great for the last 15 years.
Roland
I have no doubts your setup works OK, I just have hard time imagining
it and your drive conditions/terrain.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <
.
>
> You really don't need the electric clutch. A generator or alternator
> with no load on it takes almost no power. In fact, the best setup (if
> you can arrange it) is to drive the generator or alternator directly
> from the traction motor; but this may turn it too slowly to generate
> enough power for regenerative braking.
Your saying that when you wanted braking you would just energize the field
of the alternator, then when driving have the field open , ? this sound
pretty good , you could also have a switch that if you needed extra juice
for your 12v battery you could keep the field on , . I remember solar car
here in Florida had a alternator with the electric clutch set up that they
where selling , but I like your idea better. could even hook it right to the
motor shaft so no belts .
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted...
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 6:50 PM
Subject: Modified Rudman Regs
> Hi all
>
> Knowing that I wanted to 'tweak' the normal installation of Rudman
> Regulators, I have bought bare boards to assemble myself. The 'tweaks' are
> primarily two discrete items, and I would like to know if anyone else has
> done similar and had any problems or can report success.
>
> First 'mod': temperature compensation sensor.
> As designed the sensor is on the PCB. Since my PCBs are not going to be in
> the same enclosure as the batteries, this would be less than useful. So I
> am going to put the diodes off on lengths of screened cable that is rated
> for 500V, and mount them on the respective battery. Has anyone done this,
> and were there any problems?
This mod was planned in the PCB design. It should work as you have planned.
Be sure to fuse the wires properly. The cathode of the diode is connected to
batt negative.
> Second 'mod': bypass heat recovery (this one is a lot more complex).
> I would like to recover bypass heat as battery heating, plus use the
> temperature comparator to select recovery or waste resistors, and control
> 'mains' powered heating once the batteries are finished charging. Under
> each group of batteries there will be an aluminium plate to distribute the
> heat across the battery bases.
I follow you on the three resistors but I do not fully understand how you
are going to select which one is active. I understand the logic, but not how
you are going to do the switching from the reg heat to the mains heat.
> The PCB has two power FETs designed onto the board, and a temperature
> comparator. This 'mod' consists of taking the thermistors off the PCBs and
> putting them on the battery heating plates, taking the output of the
> temperature comparator to some logic on a daughter PCB, and driving one or
> other of the output FETs depending on temperature.
The gates of the two transistors are tied together by a trace on the PCB.
You will need to that trace to separate them. The overtemp signal comes out
J17 pin 1, so no hacking is needed to get this signal.
You will need to change R20 to adjust the temperature setpoint. The cutout
temperature is about 85C (185F) as the circuit is designed.
> The on-board resistor pass transistor Q1 lends itself to be reconfigured
to
> be the 'modified' output, the other left as is. On the heater plate there
> would be two sets of resistors - one to be bypass resistor when the plate
> is below set temp and charging has not completed, the other to be 'mains'
> powered to heat the batteries once charging is completed. A second set of
> bypass resistors (or the only set if heat recovery is unadvisable) will be
> mounted on a 'waste' heatsink mounted with fins on the outside of the
> enclosure.
You will need to remove D2 and use those pads to connnect to the first load.
You must short out R13 to get it to pass any significant current.
> The daughter PCBs will also have optically isolated repeating of the
> undervoltage and regulating LEDs, plus the status of the heating.
The regbus interface board does all this. The connections are on J17 to
drive these optocouplers.
> The only catch that I can see is that if the batteries are cold, then as
> soon as the bypassing starts, the bottom of the cells are at a different
> temperature to the top of the cells (Orbital Bluetops) and so will end up
> at a different SOC. So it may be better to inhibit heating during charging
> and use the temperature comparator as described but to only to switch the
> mains heating (this would save a lot of work that may be
counter-productive).
The hot part of the battery will charge first because it has the lower
gassing voltage. By the time the regs fire, the battery will be quite full.
The temperature compensation will not be fooled enough to matter.
> Comments?
>
> Thanks
>
> James Massey
> Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
>
> '78 Daihatsu 1300kg truck under conversion.
> So far completed: cab bodywork,
> De-ICEing and chassis cleanup,
> Dashboard instruments not in cluster,
> Brake upgrade (vacuum booster fitted),
> Ceramic heater fitted,
> Later model seats fitted,
> Motor mount and adaption to gearbox.
> In progress: Battery enclosure,
> Motor mods (balancing etc.),
> Instrument cluster modifications,
> Charging system,
> Upholstery,
> Wiring (low voltage),
> Not yet started:
> Flat tray,
> Wiring (high voltage).
> and a lot of other minor stuff.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<In the winter, all the tires are studed. I can walk right up a icy hill at
30 mph, while all the ICE vehicles were creeping up at 20 mph and slipping
all over the place and in the ditches.
This system has been working great for the last 15 years.
Roland>>
Hey, cutting edge 70's technology can certainly keep ya going into the 21st
century, but so too could the 19th century tech running a Baker or Detroit
Electric. Hauling around a 3 ton El Camino a few miles a day seems like the
safety of bulk outweighs the efficiency of an EV -- could probably get as much
utility out of a CitiCar or CommutaVan, or for that matter a Gem with a
longbed, but, hey, if Roland makes it work for him, why argue with success?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction...
The regulating signal comes off U1 pin 7. This point does not go down during
thermal cutout.
If you want the regulating signal to be disabled during an overtemp
situation, then you need to get it from (either end of) R9.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 10:23 PM
Subject: Re: Modified Rudman Regs
> Comments inserted...
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 6:50 PM
> Subject: Modified Rudman Regs
>
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > Knowing that I wanted to 'tweak' the normal installation of Rudman
> > Regulators, I have bought bare boards to assemble myself. The 'tweaks'
are
> > primarily two discrete items, and I would like to know if anyone else
has
> > done similar and had any problems or can report success.
> >
> > First 'mod': temperature compensation sensor.
> > As designed the sensor is on the PCB. Since my PCBs are not going to be
in
> > the same enclosure as the batteries, this would be less than useful. So
I
> > am going to put the diodes off on lengths of screened cable that is
rated
> > for 500V, and mount them on the respective battery. Has anyone done
this,
> > and were there any problems?
>
> This mod was planned in the PCB design. It should work as you have
planned.
> Be sure to fuse the wires properly. The cathode of the diode is connected
to
> batt negative.
>
> > Second 'mod': bypass heat recovery (this one is a lot more complex).
> > I would like to recover bypass heat as battery heating, plus use the
> > temperature comparator to select recovery or waste resistors, and
control
> > 'mains' powered heating once the batteries are finished charging. Under
> > each group of batteries there will be an aluminium plate to distribute
the
> > heat across the battery bases.
>
> I follow you on the three resistors but I do not fully understand how you
> are going to select which one is active. I understand the logic, but not
how
> you are going to do the switching from the reg heat to the mains heat.
>
> > The PCB has two power FETs designed onto the board, and a temperature
> > comparator. This 'mod' consists of taking the thermistors off the PCBs
and
> > putting them on the battery heating plates, taking the output of the
> > temperature comparator to some logic on a daughter PCB, and driving one
or
> > other of the output FETs depending on temperature.
>
> The gates of the two transistors are tied together by a trace on the PCB.
> You will need to that trace to separate them. The overtemp signal comes
out
> J17 pin 1, so no hacking is needed to get this signal.
>
> You will need to change R20 to adjust the temperature setpoint. The cutout
> temperature is about 85C (185F) as the circuit is designed.
>
> > The on-board resistor pass transistor Q1 lends itself to be reconfigured
> to
> > be the 'modified' output, the other left as is. On the heater plate
there
> > would be two sets of resistors - one to be bypass resistor when the
plate
> > is below set temp and charging has not completed, the other to be
'mains'
> > powered to heat the batteries once charging is completed. A second set
of
> > bypass resistors (or the only set if heat recovery is unadvisable) will
be
> > mounted on a 'waste' heatsink mounted with fins on the outside of the
> > enclosure.
>
> You will need to remove D2 and use those pads to connnect to the first
load.
> You must short out R13 to get it to pass any significant current.
>
> > The daughter PCBs will also have optically isolated repeating of the
> > undervoltage and regulating LEDs, plus the status of the heating.
>
> The regbus interface board does all this. The connections are on J17 to
> drive these optocouplers.
>
> > The only catch that I can see is that if the batteries are cold, then as
> > soon as the bypassing starts, the bottom of the cells are at a different
> > temperature to the top of the cells (Orbital Bluetops) and so will end
up
> > at a different SOC. So it may be better to inhibit heating during
charging
> > and use the temperature comparator as described but to only to switch
the
> > mains heating (this would save a lot of work that may be
> counter-productive).
>
> The hot part of the battery will charge first because it has the lower
> gassing voltage. By the time the regs fire, the battery will be quite
full.
> The temperature compensation will not be fooled enough to matter.
>
> > Comments?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > James Massey
> > Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
> >
> > '78 Daihatsu 1300kg truck under conversion.
> > So far completed: cab bodywork,
> > De-ICEing and chassis cleanup,
> > Dashboard instruments not in cluster,
> > Brake upgrade (vacuum booster fitted),
> > Ceramic heater fitted,
> > Later model seats fitted,
> > Motor mount and adaption to gearbox.
> > In progress: Battery enclosure,
> > Motor mods (balancing etc.),
> > Instrument cluster modifications,
> > Charging system,
> > Upholstery,
> > Wiring (low voltage),
> > Not yet started:
> > Flat tray,
> > Wiring (high voltage).
> > and a lot of other minor stuff.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since the Aspire is smashed I have a choice of moving to a Mazda pickup or
staying with the Aspire and just getting another donor body. With the
Aspire I have the racks already done except the back one might have to be
done over since it was bent. I have the motor and adapter plate hooked to a
tranny that works fine. It's basically the cost. With 800 pounds of Gen II
Panasonic lead I'll go as far as the 1200 pounds of Delphis I had without
using more lead and the probable move to a 9" and a new adapter which will
add 2k to the conversion cost if I go for the truck plus more batteries
which will cost more. Is it possible to use an 8' to push 4500 pounds. I
liked the Aspire. I worked. Anybody have a 9 inch and a Mazda adapter
plate they want to trade for an 8inch and a Kia tranny. Smashed car
included at no cost. Just wondering. After taking off the bumper it doesn't
look so bad. It still runs. What a suprise.....Any suggestions anyone?
Lawrence Rhodes..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?s=f972a568bef96f58c0343c9e21170627&act=SF&f=13
Deafscooter exploits.
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=34&t=42&s=6dc5322f5901da0bee239bbf56cd1c76
Building motor from scratch. LR..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, a "high powered laser (plasma) cutter 350 amps to melt metal with
shielded gas to protected" double throw down thingamabob. I gotta get one of
those. Dennis Berube, got your ears on? Check out the url below on the motor
cast. You will bust a gut with this one. I do applaude the work someone did
on building a motor tho. David C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:58 PM
Subject: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
>
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?s=f972a568bef96f58c0343c9e21170627&act=SF&f=13
> Deafscooter exploits.
>
>
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=34&t=42&s=6dc5322f5901da0bee239bbf56cd1c76
Building motor from scratch. LR..........
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This town, Great Falls Montana is in somewhat flat valley of about 20 square
miles, that surrounded by a rise of land that goes up about 500 feet.
The airport, industrial parks and residential areas extended onto this area.
Further out at about 20 to 50 miles, the rocky mountains surrounded this
area.
The Missouri river goes through here, of which we have 5 dams with 6
generators each. We generate are own power plus some, we are known as the
electric city.
I use to travel up the hill on the edge of this city every day to the
airport. I was than driving the EV with 90 each 300 amp hour cobalt
batteries cells. Can get up to speeds of 60 mph by taking a run on the flat
portion before going up the hill.
This car did not have any REGEN, but did have rotary DC to DC convertor that
ran off the main batteries.
At the time, we did not have any speed limit, the car at times would get up
to 80 mph going down hill. I find that this would be too dangerous in the
winter time.
I therefore install drive units right off the main motor, which than gave me
braking like a ICE.
I rarely drive this hill anymore. Most of my driving is now very short
drives through city streets of 1/2 mile at 10 to 15 mph at about 4 times a
day with one to two hours between each stop.
I find that slowing down a bit to make a turn or coming to a stop, the main
contactor would cycle on and off, cycling the controller. The motor start
up current is about 3 times higher, than if I let it idle by keeping the
accelerator press a little.
So that's when I added a idle control. I used a 12 vdc door lock activator
that has enough throw power, that can hold the accelerator arm in a idle
position. I added a adjustable cam, so I can find tune it. Can control it
by selecting Auto-Manual-Off.
Now, my drive current has been reduce by keeping the the motor from cycling.
I'am installing a new controller system, which has this drive method
incorporated into it.
I still say controller unit a dinosaur zilla.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: DC Regen
> Roland Wiench wrote:
> > The rotary inverter always stay above 1000 rpm, which is driven by 2 to
> > 1
> > ratio from a motor that can get down to 500 rpm.
> >
> > The only time the rotary inverter gets down 0 rpm, is when I shut off
> > the
> > ignition, open the door and get out.
> >
> > The down hill inertia from work to my home, increases the speed from 35
> > mph
> > at top of hill and speeds get up to 75 mph at bottom, which propell me
> > about
> > another two miles, right into my garage with no additional battery power
> > to
> > the motor.
> >
> > All the accessories are being driven at this time.
>
> Ah, I didn't know one way is only downhill. Then for downhill ride
> you don't need the batteries in your EV at all. Energy "saved" on
> downhill is wasted when you go uphill. If you can recharge in the
> middle, this of course voids net round trip equasion.
> >
> > If in the winter, if it is very icy, I can turn on all the heaters plus
> > the
> > battery charger REGEN, which slows the EV down like a ICE.
> >
> > This EV used to have a DC to DC converter to drive all the accessories
> > units, but was too dangerous to drive down this hill under these
> > conditions.
> >
> > In the winter, all the tires are studed. I can walk right up a icy hill
> > at
> > 30 mph, while all the ICE vehicles were creeping up at 20 mph and
> > slipping
> > all over the place and in the ditches.
> >
> > This system has been working great for the last 15 years.
> >
> > Roland
>
> I have no doubts your setup works OK, I just have hard time imagining
> it and your drive conditions/terrain.
>
> Victor
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and all,
Personally, I would not design an EV around the Delphi/Panasonic battery
form factor. What do you do when you need new batteries? When those are
gone, will there be any more? Perhaps with some clever design you could
create a dual fit battery box, that would accommodate either the Panasonics
or a more common format. My Civic was originally built for 26
Delphis. When they all turned out to be stinkers, I rebuilt it to take 13
group 31 Dynastys. Now that I am using a common size, I have plenty of
choices on replacement batteries.
Isn't the Aspire engine a copy of a Mazda car engine? Wouldn't that
suggest the same adapter might fit another chassis?
I think in your shoes I would just try to locate a straight Aspire then
cannibalize your existing one to convert it. Even if it were a high
mileage unit, you could move the mechanical parts and interior as well and
end up with a vehicle as nice, perhaps even nicer than your existing one
was. If your anything like me, you have probably found a zillion things
you would do different if you had to do it over. Well, now is your chance
to do exactly that.
I have been considering doing something similar with my Civic. I keep
running across much nicer potential donor Civics, and moving up from a
beater base Civic to a clean Civic Si would be so nice. I just missed a
clean green '91 Si with a bad engine for $900 a few weeks ago. Just
think,strip it down to a shell, get the body and paint perfect, then
convert it using both the existing parts and the lessons learned from doing
the first one, and this time, document everything, I didn't write nearly
enough down.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't want a baby buggy EV that can't push through a foot a snow, that is
not super comfort with a 80 degree inside temperature at 30 below and have
great traction and stopping power on ice.
Also can maintain a 60 degree temperature at 100 degree days plus.
I want to be able to carry about 1000 lbs of cargo in a good looking
classic.
Driving this very short routes with my ICE with a load of 1000 lbs plus
results in a 4.49 MPG!!! that would normally get 22.5 MPG on longer runs.
The only thing that is 19th century tech. on this car is the sheet metal.
Everything else is 2004, the controller, the battery charger, the batteries,
the Air ride system and full instrument systems.
Look at the TV program RIDES, they still use a 1932 Ford car with 2004 tech
in it.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: DC Regen
> <<In the winter, all the tires are studed. I can walk right up a icy hill
> at
> 30 mph, while all the ICE vehicles were creeping up at 20 mph and slipping
> all over the place and in the ditches.
>
> This system has been working great for the last 15 years.
>
> Roland>>
>
> Hey, cutting edge 70's technology can certainly keep ya going into the
> 21st
> century, but so too could the 19th century tech running a Baker or Detroit
> Electric. Hauling around a 3 ton El Camino a few miles a day seems like
> the
> safety of bulk outweighs the efficiency of an EV -- could probably get as
> much
> utility out of a CitiCar or CommutaVan, or for that matter a Gem with a
> longbed, but, hey, if Roland makes it work for him, why argue with
> success?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow, a "high powered laser (plasma) cutter 350 amps to melt metal with
shielded gas to protected" double throw down thingamabob...
You will bust a gut with this one.
Craig Uyeda (deafscooter) is deaf since birth, which presents unique
communication challenges. He thinks in a combination of english and sign
language, and this makes for some very interesting (and sometimes
challenging) sentence structure in his posts. It generally doesn't take
too much effort to sort out what he is trying to express conceptually.
He is also very protective of his ideas as he has had direct competitors
in his local area trying to get photography of his mods and then
building very similar products for sale in his backyard. Craig is also
VERY concerned that some kid will attempt one of his high speed/high
power mods and get seriously hurt. He blurs some photos and withholds
some data about his builds as a result.
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need to get rid of some of my EV stuff.
I will be selling my 1980 Elektricar;
1980 Datsun 310, sold new as an EV. Fairly clean, 108 V, prestolite motor,
cableform controller, Lester charger. Registered as an EV in Cal. Typical EV
project, worked and drove fine when we took it apart to replace the clutch, since
then batteries T145's)have died from neglect.
Pictures available on request, no reasonable offer refused.
Also, 9 inch motor adapted to an early rx7 trans.
Please let me know if you are interested, both are the San Diego area.
Ben
--- End Message ---
