EV Digest 3457
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Question on cold low battery
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) New Batteries - Which Ones Are BEST?
by "Dave Ganapoler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) working on an electric car: lesson 1
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Battery status, that did not take long...
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Controllers for Shunt-Wound Motors
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 2 8inch vs 1 9"
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Question on cold low battery
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Modified Rudman Regs
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) ON TOPIC: Deafscooter and the EVDL
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Draining the Prizm's pack
by Steve Gaarder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Draining the Prizm's pack
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 2 8inch vs 1 9"
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: ON TOPIC: Deafscooter and the EVDL
by "John Bryan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Controllers for Shunt-Wound Motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: ON TOPIC: Deafscooter and the EVDL
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Question on cold low battery
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Beefing up contactors
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: working on an electric car: lesson 1
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: 2 8inch vs 1 9" ot
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: working on an electric car: lesson 1
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: ADC dismantling and advice ?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You could probably find a jacuzzi with a dead heating system cheap.
Circulate the water from the jacuzzi through the barrel and back in.
Jacuzzis are usually 600+ gallons and are heated to 102 to 104 degrees F.
At least you wouldn't be wasting the heat.
Tim
-----------
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 07:12:20 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load
� system
Umm, no.� You need 1 garbage can with 10 elements in it.
I use 1 55 gal drum with 3 (soon to be 4) elements to load test my
pack.� It takes a LOT of power to bring 30 gallons of water to the boiling
point, and then you just add more water.
_________________________________________________________________
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
10.5V (for a 12V battery) is 100% DOD regardless of temperature.
However, you'll hit this voltage much quicker on cold batteries which is
why range goes down (often dramatically) in cold temperatures.
On Sun, 2004-04-11 at 09:28, EV'r up LATE wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm guessing the standard for a warm battery fully discharged is when it
> hits 10.5V
> Is this point lower when the battery is cold, like 9.5V?
> I'm thinking along the lines for sensing battery temperature (more like
> case temperature)
> Or is just 10.5V hot or cold sufficient?
> Thanks!
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All APC UPS's I've seen use 6V or 12V gell cell batteries, in 6, 12 or 24
volt
combinations, from the BackUPS Office 280 (which looks like
a giant power strip) to the SmartUPS rackmount 3000XL. All of them also
run pretty hot in native trim, so even if they already have a fan, I would
upgrade to either a second fan or a larger fan.
Tim
----------
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 07:13:16 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load
� system
Many UPS's aren't powered from 12V.� They have a hi-voltage pack of small
batteries.
_________________________________________________________________
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium!
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/mlb&pgmarket=en-us/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm getting ready to replace my battery pack...I currently have 8 12v
batteries. I have an Advanced DC 9" motor in VW Rabbit. I don't commute
very long distances (7.5 miles each way) so my questions are as follows:
Is it better to maintain the 96 volt system with 12v batteries or go to 64
volt system with 8v batteries? I keep hearing the lower the voltage, even 6
volt batteries, will give greater distances per charge and last longer than
12 volt but you need more of them and gain a substantial amount of weight
and cost to do so.
Is there a good maintenance free battery around that is reasonably priced?
Maybe a better question would be what is the best battery for this
application?
Also the battery boxes and racks are configured for 6.75" X 13.5"
Batteries....
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 10:04 AM
Subject: EV digest 3456
>
> EV Digest 3456
>
> Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) working on an electric car: lesson 1
> by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 2) Re: Modified Rudman Regs (long) - heat recovery
> by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 3) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 4) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 5) Re: coupling AC/PS
> by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 6) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 7) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 8) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 9) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 10) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load
> system
> by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 11) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load
> system
> by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 12) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 13) Re: More EV ebay stuff for sale
> by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 14) Re: ADC dismantling and advice ?
> by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 15) Re: ADC dismantling and advice ?
> by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 16) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 17) Re: working on an electric car: lesson 1
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 18) Re: working on an electric car: lesson 1
> by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 19) Question on cold low battery
> by "EV'r up LATE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 20) Re: ADC dismantling and advice ?
> by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 21) Re: working on an electric car: lesson 1
> by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 22) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 23) Re: OT: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
> by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 24) Re: working on an electric car: lesson 1
> by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 25) Re: Prizm battery drop. Interesting, need thoughts on a load system
> by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Derrick:
Pull that battery and see if it's wet underneath. If so, dry it out well.
Often this is enough to correct the ground fault.
Marv
> From: Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2004 02:19:47 -0400 (EDT)
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: working on an electric car: lesson 1
>
> I previously posted some details that I'd picked up a fully working car on
> eBay. I finally have the paperwork but it's still not titled. However,
> I've been preparing for a while. In January I noticed the batteries all
> needed to be watered. The first day it was above freezing I watered them,
> and turned on the charger, and went to bed.
>
> I took it out of the garage briefly a few weeks later, and noticed it
> didn't want to climb the driveway to go back in. Odd. So I plugged it into
> the charger, and noticed the ground fault on the K&W BC-20 was tripped.
> Crap.
>
> Since I had been planning to anyway, I ordered a PFC-20. Well, since it's
> still a bit out, but I got the paperwork and need to charge the car if
> it's to be able to pass the safety inspection and get a PA title, I
> decided to see what the problem was today. Isolated the charger from the
> DC system: didn't trip. Reattached it, cut the battery string. Tripped.
>
> Ok. Well, at this point I wondered if perhaps I'd damaged the cabling
> somehow. Seemed unlikely. I disconnected batteries 2-14 of the 16 battery
> string, and it didn't trip. I disconnected batteries 6-13 (the ones in the
> back) and it did trip. Soon I isolated the problem to batteries 3-5, and
> then to battery 3. Bypassed it, and the system doesn't trip now. So I
> guess I should figure out where I can get a T-105, or go to the Costco 40
> miles away to get their equivalent so I can get back in business.
>
> I bought rubber gloves and insulated tools for the occasion; Dealing with
> the gloves was only a minor annoyance, I suspect I'll be able to deal with
> this well.
>
> Lesson #1 passed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm...
Went ahead and set up the poor man's tester. Started off with a 300 watt
halogen lamp, for a draw of about 35 amps.
The first battery I checked was a nice 12.55 volts but was dropping a
slight bit when I applied the 30amp load tester. Within a minute it was
pulling 7 volts.
A normal battery next to it was pulling for a total of 8 minutes before
it crossed 10.5. That was the best out of four.
Either my pack is dead (a distinct possibility) or something else is
wrong. I'll try charging each one of these with a 15ah charger and see
how they look in the morning.
Speaking of which, it's 40 degrees again in beautiful MD where the
weather changes with the person's moods. Once I get some control
batteries I can adjust my testing.
Or simply wait till July when it will finally warm up
*grumble*
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Does anyone make a controller that is compatible with a shunt-wound
motor? I have been asked to look into it for a friend of mine, his EV is
fine now, but he was concerned about the long term viability of the
car. The original controller was custom and there is no longer any support
available for it. The motor is a GE shunt-wound unit, and the pack voltage
is 108 Volts. The original setup has regen and while retaining that would
certainly be desirable, it would not be an absolute requirement.
Is there anything out here that would work, or will he have to replace both
the motor and controller if the controller ever fails?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have first hand knowledge of Craig and he certainly is singleminded as
concerns electric vehicles. I think his accomplishments speak for
themselves. He is a good guy. Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 1:58 PM
Subject: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
> <<Craig Uyeda (deafscooter) is deaf since birth, which presents unique
> communication challenges.>>
>
> I doubt there is one graduate of Gallaudet University that writes in such
broken
> English, and the majority of them were born deaf - his writing is more
like
> someone with English as a second language. Hope his mental processes are
less
> egocentric than his posts lead most to believe.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awhile back when I sold the EV Misubichie pick up and had momey to brun , I
posted about the 3 paths I could go down , 1 convert another car/truck , 2
finnice an EV for a prospect and hope to get payed back , 3 Team up with
Paul for http://paulsexotics.com and do a 2 motor setup / up grade ,
which would go in a Porsche GT 1 kit car .
Finding a nice Mazda pu with bad motor made 1 happen first , and that's
the one in the album now. 2 Now that I have a new work truck I have my old
one that needs a home . So it looks like 2 will happen with out it cost me
much as my prospect is going to take my old work truck and fix it up and
make payments on it , which is better that taking the parts out and putting
them in another . 3 I did spend some of the money on a 8" motor and I kept
talking to Paul , sending him all the great post from the EV racers, . He
has a Green EV Porsche 912 that he got form the left coast with 1 8" motor
( a nice job on the conversion ) . Paul has been ready to go , but I have
this Honda prelube that's been in the yard waiting for Chris to come up with
the money for the parts to finnish it, . About two weeks ago Paul calls and
talks to my wife ( bad , very bad ) , and wanted to know about bring the car
up. I put out the fire by telling her no new cars are comming into the yard
till I finnish the honda . In all fairness she is right , as right then in
the yard was ev ranger pu, ev mazda pu ,my ev 924 porsche , all running ,
and the
honda which is 1/2 in 1/2 out of the shop over hang. So the next day I call
Paul , and it truns out he needs to clear his yard out and wants to bring it
up that day. I have a rental down the street and have a few cars hidden
there
so I tell Paul O.K bring it up. So last week I put Chris's Honda over at the
rental ( got to wait for more parts , motor is in and its moveable ) and
brought the 912 Porsche over to add the 2nd motor. The 912 is now in the
excact same place as the honda was, .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:00 PM
Subject: 2 8inch vs 1 9"
> So if I only had money for a zilla 1 k and could get 2 8" for the price
> of a warp 9, the quicker EV would be dualing 8"
>
> Kinda like a 2 speed series wound motor, hummm, perhaps there's a
> concept for a dragrace motor worthy of NetGains attention. it would
> have 6 posts and you just put the contactor in if you have the
> controller for it. :-)
>
> 2 motors adds the series/paralell option, does that outweight the larger
> motor capabilities.
> I guess it is just simple math 23+23 = 46 vs 28
>
> Is it less or more efficient?, provideing lossless coupling
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is Deafscooters(Craig) motor. Lawrence Rhodes
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=34&t=42&s=6dc5322f5901da0bee239bbf56cd1c76
Building motor from scratch. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
> What does this comment have to do with EV's? What's more, it's rude and
> doesn't belong here (along with all the snide remarks today about
> Rolands setup).
>
> Whew...back on topic - has anyone else attempted to build their own
> electric motor? That would make one interesting project.
>
> -Ryan
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> ><<Craig Uyeda (deafscooter) is deaf since birth, which presents unique
> >communication challenges.>>
> >
> >I doubt there is one graduate of Gallaudet University that writes in such
broken
> >English, and the majority of them were born deaf - his writing is more
like
> >someone with English as a second language. Hope his mental processes are
less
> >egocentric than his posts lead most to believe.
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree & it is quite possible that Craig will be our American Cedric Lynch.
I have been a sailor and I have notices that the guys that did the best in
big boats all started in small boats. Lawrence Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon "Sheer" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2004 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
>
>
> > <<Craig Uyeda (deafscooter) is deaf since birth, which presents unique
> > communication challenges.>>
> >
> > I doubt there is one graduate of Gallaudet University that writes in
such
> broken
> > English, and the majority of them were born deaf - his writing is more
> like
> > someone with English as a second language. Hope his mental processes are
> less
> > egocentric than his posts lead most to believe.
>
>
> Judging by his photos, I'd guess english might very well be his second
> language. Imagine being deaf and ESL.. touch challenging, no?
>
> Anyway, his english is still better than a lot of users of chat rooms that
I
> talk to every day. It's just a bit wacky - he's obviously literate.
>
> Anyway, who cares? The kid is playing with building his own motors, he's
> gotten a board scooter up to 87 mph, he's causing other people to talk
about
> electric scooters. If his personal persona is being egocentric, that's
just
> fine - look at how many of our famous inventers were egocentric - not to
> mention a few venerable racers on this list ;-)
>
> And, I get the impression he's not that old - and also, I get te
impression
> that he's not nearly so egocentric in person. I remember having a lot of
> trouble learning how to relate to people on networks when I first started
> trying. The cool thing about him is he's into the technology, and he's not
> afraid to get his hands dirty - this is definately someone on our side. I
> wish he was on the EVDL
>
> Seriously, I'm delighted that he's out there being wacky. Wacky is not
> low-profile - wacky gets you noticed. And the thing EVs need most is to be
> noticed. You'd be amazed how many people I talk to every week who don't
even
> know EVs are a option, or who have very strange preconceptions about te
> limitations of them. I talked to someone yesterday who said that electric
> vehicles suck because they all look like spaceships on wheels - I showed
him
> Rod's street rod, and he started showing some serious interest in
> electrics..
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rich. What did he think about your minibike from hell? Lawrence
Rhodes.............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
> This Deaf Scooter guy was at the Las Vegas Nedra event when Gone Postal
was
> there. He's pretty sharp, and has his hands very dirty into motor and
speed.
> Cool stuff, but it's at odds with the full sized serious racers. Scooters
going
> down the same strip as Funny cars, kinda irritates the Gas guys.
> But fast scooters, I don't want to try to beat him, he's a tough
compeditor.
> Yea he's been deaf from the begining, But he's as crazy about Evs as the
rest
> of us.
> Yes I found the communication to be difficult. But if you had a TTY or a
> personal computing device, he does very well.
>
> Adjust your own "personal comm ports" as needed.
>
> Dave Davidson wrote:
>
> > It's very likely that English is his second language. I worked with
quite a
> > few folks who had been born deaf. Their first language is American Sign
> > Language (ASL) and they think in ASL. They can be quite intelligent and
> > educated, and still not be able to write in English much better than
many
> > foreignors. Imagine not learning English until you're 7 or 8 (or maybe
a
> > bit older), and then you learn to read and write it without ever hearing
it
> > spoken. Most foreignors think in their native tongue and then try to
> > translate their thoughts to English, with varying degrees of success.
It's
> > exactly the same with deaf folks who have been brought up "speaking" ASL
and
> > think in ASL, and then have to translate their thoughts to English which
> > they learned later. ASL is a language unto itself and not a visual
> > representation of English.
> >
> > Dave Davidson
> > Glen Burnie, MD
> > 1993 Dodge TEVan
> >
> > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >Subject: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
> > >Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 13:58:11 -0700
> > >
> > ><<Craig Uyeda (deafscooter) is deaf since birth, which presents unique
> > >communication challenges.>>
> > >
> > >I doubt there is one graduate of Gallaudet University that writes in
such
> > >broken
> > >English, and the majority of them were born deaf - his writing is more
like
> > >someone with English as a second language. Hope his mental processes
are
> > >less
> > >egocentric than his posts lead most to believe.
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page -
FREE
> > download! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's nothing special about the number, 10.5. It's not unusual or
alarming for the voltage of a 12-volt battery to drop below 10.5 when
the discharge current is high especially if the battery is cold or if
the battery is partially discharged or it's simply getting old. A driver
doesn't know what his individual battery voltages are when driving unless
he has one of the rare EVs which monitors and displays individual
battery voltages. Average battery voltage can be calculated as pack
voltage divided by the number of batteries connected in series.
It's prudent to try to keep average battery voltage above 10.5 volts to
minimize the risk of reversing cells in the weaker batteries in the pack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Question on cold low battery
> 10.5V (for a 12V battery) is 100% DOD regardless of temperature.
> However, you'll hit this voltage much quicker on cold batteries which is
> why range goes down (often dramatically) in cold temperatures.
>
>
> On Sun, 2004-04-11 at 09:28, EV'r up LATE wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I'm guessing the standard for a warm battery fully discharged is when it
> > hits 10.5V
> > Is this point lower when the battery is cold, like 9.5V?
> > I'm thinking along the lines for sensing battery temperature (more like
> > case temperature)
> > Or is just 10.5V hot or cold sufficient?
> > Thanks!
> --
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:13 PM 10/04/04 -0700, Lee Hart wrote:
James Massey wrote:
> Rudman Regulators... First 'mod': temperature compensation sensor.
> As designed the sensor is on the PCB. Since my PCBs are not going
> to be in the same enclosure as the batteries...
That's a lot of extra wiring. Instead, I would suggest temperature
compensating the voltage signal from the battery to the remote regulator
board. That way, the regulator board itself has a temperature-stable
threshold, but the battery voltage it sees is temperature compensated.
It's not a huge amount of 'extra' wiring, since there will be one 4-core to
each battery already - so to put a second 4-core isn't a lot. However, I
have my battery boxes built, and am in the process of fitting them out,
having designed cable-ways for this stuff into them. Not only that, but I'm
not sure how to go about temperature compensation - Rich and Joe have that
designed in, so I'll just use it. I need to be building at this stage, not
studying up on what I could build. Although if you have any advice on
temperature compensation, I hope that this EV will be the first of many...
> Second 'mod': bypass heat recovery (this one is a lot more complex).
> I would like to recover bypass heat as battery heating, plus use
> the temperature comparator to select recovery or waste resistors,
> and control 'mains' powered heating once the batteries are finished
> charging.
Again, this is likely to lead to a lot of wiring. As an alternative, how
about putting the regulators in a box that you can cool with a fan, and
optionally duct the air from this box thru the battery box. Open the
flap, and waste heat from the regulators heats the batteries. Close the
flap, and this waste heat is just dumped outside. The duct and flap
valve could be the sort of parts used for ducting clothes dryers.
If ducting air is mechanically inconvenient, then the regulators could
be assembled to dump their heat into a "cold plate". This is a closed
metal box or structure that you circulate water thru to carry the heat
away. A pair of hoses could carry this hot water to another cold plate
inside the battery box.
All good ideas (as always), but incompatible with the way that I have had
to build the battery box. I wouldn't do it this way again, although it will
be keeping my CG low.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Thanks Lee
James Massey
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This really pisses me off. Some of you talk about Craig like he is not even
here. Don't you think he is reading these posts that are dissecting his
communication skills, ability, and intellect?
Jeeeez Louise, get a clue!
The man has a lot more brains than many on this list.
And no, i ain't responding to what you got to say about this.
Get a clue. As a matter of fact, some of you may need to take out a loan and
buy a clue.
Some one mentioned that Craig could be the next Cedric Lynch, wouldn't
surprise me.
NO ONE is in competition with him in his niche.
Can you say respect? c'mon, try real hard.
_end rant_
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms and
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Chris, I seem to recall that the disconnect breaker at the back of the
pack will still be in the circuit when you do a load test, since it breaks
the two strings of the pack in the middle. Is it rated to disconnect under
load? Alternatively, could you use the car's contactors - which I think
you said were built into the pack - to switch the load? That would
presumably require getting a connector to match the one on the main power
cable, which might be a pain. It does seem to me that having two ways to
disconnect - neither of them too near the load - would be a good idea for
safety.
Another load that wouldn't require water would be two pairs of three space
heaters in series across te whole pack. Pick ones without fans so you
don't have to hassle with AC power to the motors.
thanks,
Steve Gaarder
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*nod* good points however right now I am checking the pack one battery
at a time.
I'm working on a set of four right now. Running them at a 35amp load
each has resulted in running times of one minute to 7.5 volts (from
12.6) to eight minutes to 10.5 volts (from 12.6)
Either these batteries are insane, all bad, or at very different states
of charge.
Charging them right now with a 12 volt charger; we shall see how they
look. The first one took a couple of hours at 15ah; perhaps they are all
simply thirsty.
In which case the whole pack might be totally out of balance and I will
need to eat a hat.
Chris
Steve Gaarder wrote:
Chris, I seem to recall that the disconnect breaker at the back of the
pack will still be in the circuit when you do a load test, since it breaks
the two strings of the pack in the middle. Is it rated to disconnect under
load? Alternatively, could you use the car's contactors - which I think
you said were built into the pack - to switch the load? That would
presumably require getting a connector to match the one on the main power
cable, which might be a pain. It does seem to me that having two ways to
disconnect - neither of them too near the load - would be a good idea for
safety.
Another load that wouldn't require water would be two pairs of three space
heaters in series across te whole pack. Pick ones without fans so you
don't have to hassle with AC power to the motors.
thanks,
Steve Gaarder
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Steve,
Just tell her that they are living sculptures representing the different
stages of EV conversion progress..... ;-)
Lonnie
On Sun, 2004-04-11 at 11:05 -0400, 1sclunn wrote:
> Awhile back when I sold the EV Misubichie pick up and had momey to brun , I
> posted about the 3 paths I could go down , 1 convert another car/truck , 2
> finnice an EV for a prospect and hope to get payed back , 3 Team up with
> Paul for http://paulsexotics.com and do a 2 motor setup / up grade ,
> which would go in a Porsche GT 1 kit car .
> Finding a nice Mazda pu with bad motor made 1 happen first , and that's
> the one in the album now. 2 Now that I have a new work truck I have my old
> one that needs a home . So it looks like 2 will happen with out it cost me
> much as my prospect is going to take my old work truck and fix it up and
> make payments on it , which is better that taking the parts out and putting
> them in another . 3 I did spend some of the money on a 8" motor and I kept
> talking to Paul , sending him all the great post from the EV racers, . He
> has a Green EV Porsche 912 that he got form the left coast with 1 8" motor
> ( a nice job on the conversion ) . Paul has been ready to go , but I have
> this Honda prelube that's been in the yard waiting for Chris to come up with
> the money for the parts to finnish it, . About two weeks ago Paul calls and
> talks to my wife ( bad , very bad ) , and wanted to know about bring the car
> up. I put out the fire by telling her no new cars are comming into the yard
> till I finnish the honda . In all fairness she is right , as right then in
> the yard was ev ranger pu, ev mazda pu ,my ev 924 porsche , all running ,
> and the
> honda which is 1/2 in 1/2 out of the shop over hang. So the next day I call
> Paul , and it truns out he needs to clear his yard out and wants to bring it
> up that day. I have a rental down the street and have a few cars hidden
> there
> so I tell Paul O.K bring it up. So last week I put Chris's Honda over at the
> rental ( got to wait for more parts , motor is in and its moveable ) and
> brought the 912 Porsche over to add the 2nd motor. The 912 is now in the
> excact same place as the honda was, .
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVlist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2004 11:00 PM
> Subject: 2 8inch vs 1 9"
>
>
> > So if I only had money for a zilla 1 k and could get 2 8" for the price
> > of a warp 9, the quicker EV would be dualing 8"
> >
> > Kinda like a 2 speed series wound motor, hummm, perhaps there's a
> > concept for a dragrace motor worthy of NetGains attention. it would
> > have 6 posts and you just put the contactor in if you have the
> > controller for it. :-)
> >
> > 2 motors adds the series/paralell option, does that outweight the larger
> > motor capabilities.
> > I guess it is just simple math 23+23 = 46 vs 28
> >
> > Is it less or more efficient?, provideing lossless coupling
> >
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Some of you talk about Craig like he is not even
> here. Don't you think he is reading these posts that are dissecting his
> communication skills, ability, and intellect?
That was my first thought, since I had forwarded recent comments about
Twikes to my friend Mike Patterson, so he could respond to the questions.
I had started wondering what Craig would think about the critical examination
he was being subjected to. I've never met Craig, but am in awe of not only
his abilities, but his enthusiasm! and courage too.
Speaking of the race in Vegas, what I've been waiting for was
the report of who "our pal, meat" really is. He had said that he was
going to go to the EVent, did anyone in Vegas admit to being "meat"?
....John
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Sounds like Ebay time.
I have a 400Amp Sepex control in the basement!
This was designed for the GE motor mentioned.
Any more info on the origins of this vehicle?
I might be able to help out.
Rod
--- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Does anyone make a controller that is compatible
> with a shunt-wound
> motor? I have been asked to look into it for a
> friend of mine, his EV is
> fine now, but he was concerned about the long term
> viability of the
> car. The original controller was custom and there
> is no longer any support
> available for it. The motor is a GE shunt-wound
> unit, and the pack voltage
> is 108 Volts. The original setup has regen and
> while retaining that would
> certainly be desirable, it would not be an absolute
> requirement.
>
> Is there anything out here that would work, or will
> he have to replace both
> the motor and controller if the controller ever
> fails?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at:
> http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at:
> http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
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I have respect for a guy like Craig.
I just hope I can get my BLDC controls going
for guys like Craig and Electric Louie, I still
owe him one for his scooter (and Brian Hall!).
I blew up the last one pulling the kids around
the yard in a wagon with the go cart (I learned
something about switching losses on this design!!)
Keep up the good work Craig!
Rod
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED](anail.com> wrote:
>
> This really pisses me off. Some of you talk about
> Craig like he is not even
> here. Don't you think he is reading these posts that
> are dissecting his
> communication skills, ability, and intellect?
>
> Jeeeez Louise, get a clue!
>
> The man has a lot more brains than many on this
> list.
>
> And no, i ain't responding to what you got to say
> about this.
>
> Get a clue. As a matter of fact, some of you may
> need to take out a loan and
> buy a clue.
>
> Some one mentioned that Craig could be the next
> Cedric Lynch, wouldn't
> surprise me.
>
> NO ONE is in competition with him in his niche.
>
> Can you say respect? c'mon, try real hard.
>
> _end rant_
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax
> tips, tools, IRS forms and
> more!
> http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp
>
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EV'r up LATE wrote:
> ...for a warm battery, fully discharged is when it hits 10.5V.
> Is this point lower when the battery is cold, like 9.5V?
No, you leave it at 10.5v regardless of temperature. But you will find
that a cold battery reaches this voltage much sooner, and you can draw
much less current before it hits this limit. That's because the internal
resistance of the battery rises as temperature falls.
The reason for the 10.5v limit is based on the assumption that you want
to detect one dead cell (at 0v) even if the other 5 cells are at their
"fully charged" voltage (2.1v each). 5 x 2.1v = 10.5v; so if you stop
discharging at 10.5v, then you are certain not to reverse a cell.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hi all, I was tinkering around with some low voltage (28-36) hi-amperage
(200-400) contactors that I just got in and was thinking on how to further
extend their capacity. Mag blowouts are already planned but I was wondering
about also sliding an insulator between the contacts as they break. Thoughts
pro or con welcome. Material suggestions? For the configuration I am
thinking about the insulator would need to be mechanically shock resistant.
David Chapman.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I >
> The battery is in plain sight, it's the most accessible battery in the
> car. There's no obvious discharge on top of the battery.
>
I would look very close at the battery cable to see if its rubbing on
something , and has cut the insulation. also there may be a hole ( even a
small one )on the bottom or side of the battery
and this is why it needed so much water. could also try by passing it , If
your charger can take charging a lower voltage pack
> > If a battery is low on water before charging, add only enough to cover
> > the plates. Charge it, and *then* add however much water is needed.
>
> You'd be scared if I told you how much water that was. I probably did
> overfill some of them.
>
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> Awhile back when I sold the EV Mitsubishi
I put this post in the out box when the kids/ grand kids came over for
Easter lunch, somebody went on line and off it went unfinished , unchecked ,
ect,
My grand son came out back to see what I was doing , and I got him turning
some bolts, I was thinking about a lesson I learned when his dad was a kid
and we were building a go cart. That is that its not very important to "get
the job done or how it looks , but what is important is that the kid gets to
do it and not stand around watching a grown up do all the work. So I handed
him bolts and wrenches and we had a good time putting a few bolts in , Then
we went and climbed a tree , So what's this got to do with EV's ? An EV
project is a great opportunity to get together with your kids , or other
people and build something , do something together, and learn while doing
it.
> so I tell Paul O.K bring it up. So last week I put Chris's Honda over at
the
> rental ( got to wait for more parts , motor is in and its moveable ) and
> brought the 912 Porsche over to add the 2nd motor. The 912 is now in the
> exact same place as the Honda was, .
>
And believe it or not after almost a week my wife has still not noticed that
the Honda is now a Porsche.
funny how just climbing a tree can make you feel like the luckiest guy
alive.
Steve Clunn
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004, Marvin Campbell wrote:
> Hey Derrick:
>
> Pull that battery and see if it's wet underneath. If so, dry it out well.
> Often this is enough to correct the ground fault.
After I sent the mails that I sent this morning I did go down and look at
it. I can't lift it out; There are (old) deposits around the bottom of the
battery and it's basically glued itself into the rack. I'm going to need
to try again tomorrow to get it out.
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Fortunat Mueller wrote:
does anyone happen to know the part number for the
front and rear bearings of the ADC 9 inch (with a tail
shaft) ?
Do you think if I bring the NACHI P/N from on the
bearing to NAPA they would be able to source the part
Sorry, don't know those specific part numbers.
Others have already given good advice in the bearing area, I suspect that
NAPA (or other auto parts store) can easily cross-reference to a good
quality bearing. (um... made in U.S. A.? Timken is always good)
what, if anything, should I use to clean the motor
before re installing ? Can I use electric motor
cleaner spray to rinse down the windings and comm etc
Um... compressed air and a blowgun can do wonders :^D
(please protect your lungs when doing this)
Anything else I should inspect ? When looking at the
brushes, what am I looking for ? just abnormal wear
patterns ?
Well... there are lots of motor gurus on this list, but I can tell you what
I might look for.
The brush relationship with the comm is the whole ball of wax. They are an
integrated unit.
First, insure that the comm is smooth, concentric, and not pitted or
grooved.
Some will swear that you must use a stone on the comm, I would say that an
experienced hand with some fine abrasive paper can do an adequate job.(if it
is not severely worn or damaged).
The clearances between the brushes and brush holder should be close but not
binding, get rid of any accumulated dirt, dust, or electrolytic corrosion or
bonding/binding. (if anyone wants to throw some clearance numbers in here,
please do)
The area of the brush in contact with the comm should not be splintered,
pitted, or broken.
The face/contact area of the brush should be entirely in contact with the
comm, if not, let it wear in. Especially for high-perf applications.
When an ADC motor comes out of the box, you would be lucky if 40% of the
brush face is in contact with the comm
Best deal for long life when installing is to run in the brushes as much as
possible, For light duty apps, you may not need to worry about full face
contact at the brush/comm interface before install. But.... i would :^D
(please be aware that this can take DAYS at slow bench speeds)
Finally, you say to let it run at low voltage for a
couple hours. how low ? 6V, 12 V ? 30 V ? or does it
not really matter.
12V seems reasonable and easy to me, just hook it up to a battery and run an
automotive type charger to the battery, Run as long as you need.
HTH
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Tax headache? MSN Money provides relief with tax tips, tools, IRS forms and
more! http://moneycentral.msn.com/tax/workshop/welcome.asp
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