EV Digest 3460
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: New Batteries - Which Ones Are BEST?
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Ford Hybrid cleaner than Electric Cars
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EV powered by renewables
by Nick Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: EV powered by renewables
by "Ed Thorpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery telemetry thought, take one.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EV powered by renewables
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) EVLN(Suzuki/Maruti Twin hybrid, Similar to Smart, Toytown styling)-long
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: E-Woody Pictures on the web at last!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Simple regulator question
by Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-Woody Pictures/Question for Jerry
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: E-Woody Pictures on the web at last!
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: ADC dismantling and advice ?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: OT: Re: Deafscooter exploits & motor building
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: ADC dismantling and advice ?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ford Hybrid cleaner than Electric Cars
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Electric Motorcycle Transmission?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Motor voltage for accessory motor
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Ford Hybrid cleaner than Electric Cars
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Ford Hybrid cleaner than Electric Cars
by "Mason Convey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Base load pollution and charging EVs
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: assemble your own Rudman regs: (Was Batteries in the
boondocks)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
if I read your POST correctly, you might be mis-understanding what
you heard. It isn't lowering the pack voltage that gives the
better range. It is switching the type of battery: from a 8 or 12 V
'deep-cycle' battery to a 6v 'traction' battery.
I would not reduce your pack voltage, that would reduce the EV's
horse power and acceleration.
You did not state what type of battery you currently have, and only
gave two of the three dimensions a battery has (L W H). Looking at:
http://www.usbattery.com/12vltmrn.htm
I will assume you have group 27 deep-cycle batteries at 51 lbs each.
A 96 V pack would be 8 of these or 408 lbs. Your racks are likely
made only for that type of battery.
The lightest traction wet cell battery I see is the US-1800 at 56
lbs.
For you to use 16 US-1800's you would more than double your pack
range, life, weight, your battery replacement cost, and you would
need to build new battery racks.
Since you mentioned you are interested in maintenance-free batteries,
I will assume this is way-too much work and effort.
You will likely be happy with a replacement set of batteries similar
to what you already have.
I will assume your charger is of the low-cost variety that boils off
water. You are going to need to check your battery cell water once a
month, replacing what the charger uses with distilled water
($.50/gal at Kmart = cheap)
If you try to put in the so called 'maintenance free' group 27
12 V battteries, and don't check your water levels monthly, you will
not get the same battery life. Even the Trojan Group 27 batteries in
a GEM nEV need to have their water checked regularly. Low
battery water levels leads to an early death.
What batteries of your type are the best bang-for-the buck?
I believe: US batteries.
Trojan batteries are a bit better, but their dealers are less EV
friendly and they are far too-fat on golf cart / fork lift business
to care about the EV driver.
Tell us
-what type of battery you have (brand, model, connectors),
-what type of charger you have (120VAC?),
-what type of driving you do (highway speed, nothing but city
stop-n-go), and
-what type of EV do you have (conversion, golf-car, etc.)
-
From: "Dave Ganapoler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:33 pm
Subject: New Batteries - Which Ones Are BEST?
I'm getting ready to replace my battery pack...I currently have 8
12v batteries. I have an Advanced DC 9" motor in VW Rabbit. I don't
commute very long distances (7.5 miles each way) so my questions
are as follows:
Is it better to maintain the 96 volt system with 12v batteries or
go to 64 volt system with 8v batteries? I keep hearing the lower
the voltage, even 6 volt batteries, will give greater distances
per charge and last longer than 12 volt but you need more of them
and gain a substantial amount of weight and cost to do so.
Is there a good maintenance free battery around that is reasonably
priced? Maybe a better question would be what is the best battery
for this application?
Also the battery boxes and racks are configured for 6.75" X 13.5"
Batteries....
Dave
-
=====
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Mr. Kuntzman,
I will not be as hard on you as the others, but I would respectfully ask you for
proof of your statement that the new Ford SUV Hybrid is cleaner than an electric car.
I suspect where you may have received this information but I will hold my judgment
until I have had a chance to review your list of research papers. I also would
respectfully request that you at least have a look at the following research:
http://www.radix.net/~futurev/pwrplnt.pdf
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Following our meeting of the NBEAA last Saturday
at the Geysers Geothermal Power Plant Visitors' Center,
I had to share with everyone that it currently produces
around 1,000MW! That means all our 20,000+ Th!nk City EV
miles over the past two years have been powered by
renewables and truly zero emissions in use *and*
generation :)
For more info, visit www.geysers.com
I'd highly recommend the Visitors Center and Tour if
you're in the North San Francisco Bay Area.
Also I just had to let Mr Gersh "puts out less pollution
than an EV" Kuntzman know this... ;)
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
Th!nk City EV driver & President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
***************************************************************
** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD **
** 55 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from $18.95! **
** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook **
** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller, etc. **
** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock **
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Nick.
Last summer I compared the excess electricity in California during our hot
whether, through ISO, which monitors energy levels state-wide. During the
nighttime (11pm-6am) there is lots of surplus energy still being generated
and not used. A quick calculation can show that 125,000 RAV4 EVs (or
production EVs with 30kwh battery packs) could fully recharging during this
window and use less that 1/2 of the current surplus in the California energy
grid curing this reduced production window. That means, in California, we
could easily add 1/8 of a million EVs to the grid without any change in
power generation. But it will take an act of God and more than a decades for
the automakers to gear up and produce anywhere near this number of EVs.
The media needs to understand that emission standards need to be measured by
the same method. If you measure at the vehicle when it driving (which they
do now), then a battery EV is zero and no gas-burning vehicle can come
close, no matter what you use to scrub and reburn the exhaust.
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Nick Carter
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 3:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EV powered by renewables
Following our meeting of the NBEAA last Saturday
at the Geysers Geothermal Power Plant Visitors' Center,
I had to share with everyone that it currently produces
around 1,000MW! That means all our 20,000+ Th!nk City EV
miles over the past two years have been powered by
renewables and truly zero emissions in use *and*
generation :)
For more info, visit www.geysers.com
I'd highly recommend the Visitors Center and Tour if
you're in the North San Francisco Bay Area.
Also I just had to let Mr Gersh "puts out less pollution
than an EV" Kuntzman know this... ;)
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
Th!nk City EV driver & President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
***************************************************************
** CoachMe - Complete Opera/Soloist Roles on audio CD **
** 55 CD sheet music titles: thousands of pages from $18.95! **
** CD-ROM versions of Ted Ross and Stiller Handbook **
** Books by Powell, Stone, Ross, Gerou & Lusk, Stiller, etc. **
** Dover miniature & full-size orchestral scores in stock **
***************************************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*nod* That is currently the thought. I'm wondering though now if I
should try and squeeze a simple basic battery balancer in there or just
go with the relays and deal with outside power for the rest.
One of the issues is that I have to make *sure* I have a charger that
will not put more than 5 amps into the batteries. Otherwise I need
bigger relays and wire. After seeing what I have seen now (the pack is
insanely out of balance I think; will find out for sure once it stops
raining) I might just build a system that charges battery one with a 3
stage charge, then "crawls" to the next battery. Might take a weekend,
bit would bring the pack into "balance"
Chris
Mark Farver wrote:
On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 11:16, Christopher Zach wrote:
Ok, I have a thought here for a basic battery telemetry interface on my
Prizm.
My problem is twofold: First, I want to not have anything that comes out
of the pack which can kill me by default. Given this is a 300 volt pack
that means I need a default-off interlock on any wiring solution that
exits the pack. Like the contactors that are in place now; no wires will
be hot at a fatal voltage unless I command them to be hot.
How about using the Lee Hart style battery balancer (minus the
balancing). A chain of DPDT relays, 1 for each battery inside the
battery box. Then only the 12v control wires for the relays and one
pair of HV wires leaves the battery box. Wired correctly the HV wires
would never be live unless commanded to do so. (unless a relay
sticks... )
Or install a rotary switch inside the battery box that has its shaft
extending out to some accessible location.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Ed Thorpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
----- Begin forwarded messages -----
Last summer I compared the excess electricity in California during our hot
whether, through ISO, which monitors energy levels state-wide. During the
nighttime (11pm-6am) there is lots of surplus energy still being generated
and not used. A quick calculation can show that 125,000 RAV4 EVs (or
production EVs with 30kwh battery packs) could fully recharging during this
window and use less that 1/2 of the current surplus in the California
energy
grid curing this reduced production window. That means, in California, we
could easily add 1/8 of a million EVs to the grid without any change in
power generation. But it will take an act of God and more than a decades
for
the automakers to gear up and produce anywhere near this number of EVs.
The media needs to understand that emission standards need to be measured
by
the same method. If you measure at the vehicle when it driving (which they
do now), then a battery EV is zero and no gas-burning vehicle can come
close, no matter what you use to scrub and reburn the exhaust.
----- End of forwarded message -----
Ed,
You are slightly in error in your statement. During nighttime there
is lots of surplus generation capacity available. That does not mean that
electricity is being generated and not used. Electricity is generated,
transmitted, and consumed faster than you can even think the thought
(functinally instantly). If it's not used (and that includes transmission
losses), it's not generated. If it's not generated, the power source (for
example, fuel oil or natural gas) is not burned, and therefore no pollution
is generated.
Yes, we could easily add MANY battery EVs that are charged at night
without any change in generation capacity.
Although I am an employee of the Southern California Edison Company,
I am not a spokesman for the company nor is this any official statement
from the company.
-----------------------
Jim Walls - K6CCC
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mobile Radio Operations
Southern California Edison Co.
Ofc: 626-302-8515 - PAX 28-515
FAX: 626-302-7501 - PAX 27-501
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Suzuki/Maruti Twin hybrid, Similar to Smart, Toytown
styling)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/613134.cms
Slew of automobile launches this year
DARLINGTON JOSE HECTOR
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ TUESDAY, APRIL 13, 2004 02:13:02 AM ]
BANGALORE: It's raining cars in the Indian auto mart.
Year 2004-05 will witness a slew of car launches in the country with
all the leading passenger car makers like Hyundai, Ford, General
Motors, Maruti, Fiat and DaimlerChrysler readying to roll out the
latest.
[...]
Maruti has also been doing the exposition rounds with Jimny (a Gypsy
replacement) and Twin (a two-seater which can be driven by battery
and petrol). Out of these two, Jimny may be launched this year. Twin
may take a while to be launched considering that India's only
electric car to date, Reva, is still struggling to speed away.
[...]
Copyright � 2004 Times Internet Limited. All rights reserved.
===
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/332419.cms?
Maruti to test waters with SUV Jimny
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, DECEMBER 01, 2003 05:14:44 AM ]
NEW DELHI : Suzuki and Maruti Udyog are planning to test waters in
India with Jimny, an entry-level sports utility vehicle, at the
forthcoming Auto Expo in January.
[...]
The firm will display Suzuki�s prowess in small car development and
hybrid-fuel vehicle, Twin. It will also showcase Maruti�s recently
acquired R&D expertise and convey that the pedigree of Suzuki and
Maruti cars is bikes.
To develop a bike to a compact car needs expertise. We will display
how bikes led to development of a single-seat racing car and later
to a compact car.�
===
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/previews/previews_story.php?id=36110
May 2003 Suzuki Twin hybrid
Few cars look more fun than the Twin. Similar in dimensions to a
Smart and with Toytown styling, it even manages to turn heads in
Japan, where the population is used to the surreal. But would it be
a success in the UK? Suzuki's suggested starting price of �4,000
will give it a headstart, of course, so we jumped behind the wheel
to see if anyone could really take the cheeky two-seater seriously.
Given the Twin's minuscule proportions, its obvious rival has to be
Smart's City Coup�. But the round headlights and bulbous front are
far less aggressive, and the rounded rear bumpers give the car more
friendly proportions. Its 2,735mm length may be 235mm more than the
Smart's, yet its narrower body makes it even more adept at sneaking
through tight gaps. The panels are metal, but the doors still feel
paper-light as you open them to reveal a surprisingly spacious, if
plain interior.
We have no complaints about the driving position. You sit low down,
with plenty of headroom, and the Twin feels more conventional than
its German rival, despite build quality being nowhere near as good.
The instrument panel is functional rather than funky, and the cabin
has clearly been built to a price. Suzuki's stylists were obviously
working harder on the bodywork than they were inside.
There's no stowage space, not even a glovebox, and there's no rear
boot either, simply a glass hatch to allow access to the area behind
the seats. We drove the hybrid petrol/ electric version, and its
battery pack eats even further into the luggage space. Folding down
the front seat improves this.
When fired, the engine settles
to an urgent idle before cutting out, allowing the hybrid system to
take over. Press the brake, slot into drive and the unit bursts back
into life. Noise levels rise as the efficient CVT gearbox pushes the
car forward, and the Twin shows a surprising turn of pace. A maximum
speed of 78mph is on offer, so occasional motorway travel is
possible.
The electric motor's assistance is confirmed by a dash light, which
also shows when the system is recharging as you coast. It's not the
most seamless hybrid we've tested, but at half the cost of a Toyota
Prius it's certainly the cheapest, and delivers great economy.
Whereas the petrol-only Smart returns 57mpg, the frugal Suzuki
manages 85mpg.
On the move, the ride is smooth, but there is precious little body
control in corners. However, in the front-wheel-drive Twin's native
city environment, a 3.6-metre turning circle proves very useful.
Safety concerns are also lessened thanks to a driver airbag and
ABS.
Several Twins are already on their way to the UK, where they'll be
shown to potential customers and dealers to gauge public response.
But the trump card is the price. The most expensive version is the
hybrid, which would cost around �7,500. Smart's City Coup� in basic
trim is �6,560, but there is no dual-fuel option, so fuel - and
congestion charging - bills will be bigger.
The big-selling Twin would undoubtedly be the bargain-basement
model. At around �4,000, this would under-cut the UK's cheapest car,
Perodua's Kelisa, by �1,124. At that price, the Twin might make more
sense, but the Smart is superior in nearly every way.
-Dan Strong Article from: Auto Express
-
[ http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/twin_hybrid/ ]
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David and All,
Thanks for putting them up David.
--- David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well, at long last, Jerry dycus's E-Woody is on the
> web. I have put them up
> on my page at:
>
>
http://www.100megsfree.com/davidbr13/ewoody/ewoody.htm
These are pics of my 8 yr old E-woody I'm
currently driving. Needless to say I get some looks
going down the highway!!
So yes there really is an E -Woody!!!
From the accident damage and 8 yrs of outside
living it needs some work but have decided to build
another one like the white mold pics but finished
clear with Birch ply and Mahogany frames, accents.
It's so easy to build a new one I figured why
not do that and get all the improvements, better
looks.
Is there anyone interested in plans for one of
these new designs? I need to know this week before I
start epoxying the new E-Woody together.
I'll build new turn key E-Woodys for sale too.
The 1st and 3rd old e-woody pics are distorted,
flattened, but the 2nd is correct in scale. The white
mold pics are slightly distorted also so take that
into account.
So what do you all think?
Thanks,
jerry dycus
>
> (I hope that link works for everybody).
>
> I have also sent them to Mike for the album.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> David Brandt
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris,
On Monday, April 12, 2004 9:13 AM, Christopher Zach
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>If you configure the diode to start bypassing at say
> >>14.7, does the bulb reduce the charge current for the entire
> >>string to the resistance of the bulb?
Let me take a stab at this for you.
> Understood, however if the battery is part of a string then as soon
> as the voltage on one battery hits 15 volts (let's say) something
> interesting seems to happen.
>
> Is it that excess voltage is diverted to making the bulb shine?
No. When the threshold of the regulator across the battery exceeds
the threshold (assume 14.7V), then some of the current that *was*
going into (through) the battery gets diverted through the regulator
and its bulb. The more current that goes through the bulb, the
brighter it shines, so...
> If the former then the bulb would just get brighter if you
> didn't reduce the current till it burned out, right?
correct, sort of. The current through the bulb will increase as the
voltage across it and the battery it is protecting increases, but if
charger is in constant voltage mode then the voltage across the
battery will (usually) not increase wildly.
If the current that the regulator can bypass is not sufficient to
hold the voltage across it and the battery it is protecting from
rising further, then the voltage could conceivably increase enough to
cause the bulb to burn out, however, this is relatively unlikely
unless the charger is operating in constant current mode.
If you want to be absolutely certain that your regulator will not fry
itself, and that it will keep the voltage across the battery within
control, then the key is to ensure that your charger is limited to
output no more current than the regulator can bypass (once the charge
voltage gets above about 2.3V/cell).
> > If the current in the battery string is reduced the slower
> > charging batteries will take that much longer to charge.
> > But that is true of any bypass regulators with limited
> > current capacity.
>
> Right, but what if your charger is "dumb" and can't be cycled back.
> Will a constant-voltage charger work with this sort of set-up?
Yes, but you will need to either set the current limit on the charger
fairly low as the voltage nears the gassing voltage for the entire
pack, or set the charger's voltage to a fairly low value (e.g.
2.3V/cell = 345V for your 25 battery string) and let the string
charge until the current falls below the bypass capability of your
regulators, then crank the voltage up to 375V and let the charger run
until the current tapers to the desired level.
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...and the crowd goes WILD!!!!!!! Hey, thanks to All who have made this
rare glimpse possible. Outstandingly simple design. Thanks to Jerry and
David for all their efforts!!
While it may not look like a "finished custom runnie", it shows something
vitally important to the DIY's. It doesn't have to be an advanced material
composite design, nor NASA surplus to work. It almost reminds me of my first
small cargo trailer I built atop an old boat trailer over 10 years ago.
Jerry, does the shock on the rear swing arm fasten through the wood with
something like carriage bolts and washers and nuts? Iassume that the
batteries are either under the seat, or perhaps spread about, under hood,
cargo area, and seat?? I would enjoy getting close to this vehicle with a
creeper and a camera for about an hour. ;-))
Thanks again guys!! Great work and an outstanding feat of engineering
Jerry!!
Regards,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> http://www.100megsfree.com/davidbr13/ewoody/ewoody.htm
> So what do you all think?
that rocks!! what are the prospects for the kit? any cost estimates?
how is the handling?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fortunat Mueller wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> So in preparation for installing my 9 inch motor, I
> spun it up with 6 V in the bench.
>
> It spins slowly, but there is a scraping sound. I
> guess this isn't totally surprising since the motor
> has been sitting on my garage floor for about 1.5
> years and was sitting for half a year un used before
> that, but i don't know how much of it is ok or will go
> away with use.
>
> Partly to investigate the scraping and partly to learn
> about the motor, I took the brush end off the motor to
> do an inspection. As far as I can tell (to my
> untrained eye) the brushes themselves look pretty
> good. They are evenly worn and there isn't much
> oxidation on the comm. surface.
>
> the scraping sounds like it is coming from the
> interference between the rotor and stator insulation
> (forgive me if i missuse terms cause my motor
> knowledge is limited). Is this normal ? Is there
> supposed to be any contact there ?
>
> also, the rear bearing feels pretty stiff. This motor
> was in daily (light) use for about 3 years in my jetta
> and now has been sitting for about a year. do you guys
> think the bearing may need to be replaced ? There is
> some light scoring on the inner shaft which makes me
> think that at some point the shaft was spinning in the
> inner bearing race.
>
> can anyone give me an idea of what a normal service
> life for some of these parts is ?
>
> Anything else I should look at before dropping this
> motor in the car so I can avoid pulling it back out in
> the next few months/years ?
> Is there any value in just running the motor at low
> speed for an hour to 'break in' the various parts
> again ?
>
> I have some photos, but i can't get them uploaded
> right now since I can't find my camera cable.
>
> thanks for the advice.
>
> ~Fortunat
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
Fortunat;
Spin it with a healthy 12 volt battery or a battery with a 50 amp
charger connected also. Free spin should be in the 2500 rpm range with
12 volts and in the 30 to 50 amp range. Well broken in with Nuetral
brushes is 30 amps, Stiff bearings(like damgaged) and Advanced brushes
is 50 amps. If these are NOT close to what you measure, you have other
problems. The air gaps should be 20 to 35 thousandths of a inch.
There should be no real shaking or arcing. All the brushes should move
freely, and they all should have the entire face of the brush worn into
contact with the commutator.
Basic motor stuff.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> <<Craig Uyeda (deafscooter) is deaf since birth, which presents unique
> communication challenges.>>
>
> I doubt there is one graduate of Gallaudet University that writes in such broken
> English, and the majority of them were born deaf - his writing is more like
> someone with English as a second language. Hope his mental processes are less
> egocentric than his posts lead most to believe.
Come on lets be a bit more respectfull will ya???
I have never been accused of being a good speller, and English IS my
fist language,...
Deafscooter is a pretty good Ever... Though I have a problem with folks
hiding trick DC Permag motor secrets. Most of us don't use Permag on
anything over about 25 Hp The Neo gets too expensive. But if it's his
Stock and Trade, lets respect it. There's stuff in the PFC chargers that
I won't be publishing anytime soon. Lord Knows Dennis B. Won't be
telling you all his tricks...At anytime.
And hey folks I have raced with this Guy at Vegas... Treat him with a
NEDRA racer's respect will ya?? When you all can rip your own EV's motor
apart and get 3 ,4 5 times the power from it that is was built for...
Then you can Kibbitz about his motor works.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> Hey Rich. What did he think about your minibike from hell? Lawrence
> Rhodes.............
I don't think he's ever seen it under power. It's been about 3 years
since it's been on line. But pound for pound I would put the MBH's BLDC
up against any Brushed motor.
But I am one of the "Pros" on this list... and I have great respect for
those that are still messing with Brushes and magnets. It takes a LOT of
silicon to beat a contactor and
and some serious Neo magnets and years of looking for the best setup.
I would love to talk to him about it. He certainly knows who I am.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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Fortunate,
Send me your address offline,
I have some bearings I scavenged from work.
Yours for free, bran new!!
Rod
P.S. Fortunate, I've been wanting to use that
line for awhile. Interesting name, maybe you
could provide some history.
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Fortunat Mueller wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > So in preparation for installing my 9 inch motor,
> I
> > spun it up with 6 V in the bench.
> >
> > It spins slowly, but there is a scraping sound. I
> > guess this isn't totally surprising since the
> motor
> > has been sitting on my garage floor for about 1.5
> > years and was sitting for half a year un used
> before
> > that, but i don't know how much of it is ok or
> will go
> > away with use.
> >
> > Partly to investigate the scraping and partly to
> learn
> > about the motor, I took the brush end off the
> motor to
> > do an inspection. As far as I can tell (to my
> > untrained eye) the brushes themselves look pretty
> > good. They are evenly worn and there isn't much
> > oxidation on the comm. surface.
> >
> > the scraping sounds like it is coming from the
> > interference between the rotor and stator
> insulation
> > (forgive me if i missuse terms cause my motor
> > knowledge is limited). Is this normal ? Is there
> > supposed to be any contact there ?
> >
> > also, the rear bearing feels pretty stiff. This
> motor
> > was in daily (light) use for about 3 years in my
> jetta
> > and now has been sitting for about a year. do you
> guys
> > think the bearing may need to be replaced ? There
> is
> > some light scoring on the inner shaft which makes
> me
> > think that at some point the shaft was spinning in
> the
> > inner bearing race.
> >
> > can anyone give me an idea of what a normal
> service
> > life for some of these parts is ?
> >
> > Anything else I should look at before dropping
> this
> > motor in the car so I can avoid pulling it back
> out in
> > the next few months/years ?
> > Is there any value in just running the motor at
> low
> > speed for an hour to 'break in' the various parts
> > again ?
> >
> > I have some photos, but i can't get them uploaded
> > right now since I can't find my camera cable.
> >
> > thanks for the advice.
> >
> > ~Fortunat
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
> > http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
>
> Fortunat;
> Spin it with a healthy 12 volt battery or a battery
> with a 50 amp
> charger connected also. Free spin should be in the
> 2500 rpm range with
> 12 volts and in the 30 to 50 amp range. Well broken
> in with Nuetral
> brushes is 30 amps, Stiff bearings(like damgaged)
> and Advanced brushes
> is 50 amps. If these are NOT close to what you
> measure, you have other
> problems. The air gaps should be 20 to 35
> thousandths of a inch.
> There should be no real shaking or arcing. All the
> brushes should move
> freely, and they all should have the entire face of
> the brush worn into
> contact with the commutator.
>
> Basic motor stuff.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
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This you all might find as hard to believe as I did, But ...
Saturday I was displaying my EV at an Earth Day event here in Kansas
City area and while listening to the Toyota rep from a local dealer talk
about the Prius he was showing there .... He told this lady the exhaust
gas from the Prius was cleaner than the air going into the engine. How
in the H.... can he say that? Where is the common sense? More
mis-information...
Don
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Dear Mr. Kuntzman,
I will not be as hard on you as the others, but I would respectfully ask you for proof of your statement that the new Ford SUV Hybrid is cleaner than an electric car. I suspect where you may have received this information but I will hold my judgment until I have had a chance to review your list of research papers. I also would respectfully request that you at least have a look at the following research: http://www.radix.net/~futurev/pwrplnt.pdf
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
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I have an (unused) Kawasaki EX500 motorcycle that I would like
to convert, using an Etek at 48volts like electricmotorsport.com.
I've checked out the shop manual and the transmission and clutch
are part of the lower end of the motor, so the engine oil is used
to lubricate the "primary chain" and transmission gears. The lower
end and transmission are fairly "open" within the engine.
My question is, if the bottom end were hacked up and an Etek
mounted where the crankshaft and counterbalance shaft once
lived, would the transmission need to be (re)sealed and lubricated?
Or could it be run dry, or perhaps with a heavier gear grease?
The hacking and mounting of the Etek wouldn't exactly be easy,
but it would simplify the transfer of power to the rear wheel.
It would also give me 6 gears for high starting torque and
higher top speed than the typical single gear/direct drive setup.
L8r
Ryan
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I'm highly considering just powering the ps and ac off of the traction
motor. One deciding factor is the accessory motor I already have - it's
rated for 120 volts, and I've decided to go 144. You can see it here:
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=18&category=174
It's the top one. Think it could run at 144 without problems?
-Ryan
--
For April rebates on Zillas, visit http://www.evsource.com
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Don Buckshot wrote:
about the Prius he was showing there .... He told this lady the exhaust
gas from the Prius was cleaner than the air going into the engine. How
in the H.... can he say that? Where is the common sense? More
mis-information...
Well, it IS cleaner .oO(not counting the CO2, which isn't a pollutant)
Sheesh, just can't win when they makup rules like Partial-ZEV?
Then they start count HEV and PZEV as "electric", how twisted is that.
L8r
Ryan
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> He told this lady the exhaust gas from the
> Prius was cleaner than the air going into the engine.
Tell that guy to wrap his mouth around the Prius' tailpipe while you do the
same on your EV. Last man standing was right! ;)
mason
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Matt, See my comments below. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Trevaskis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 6:28 PM
Subject: Base load pollution and charging EVs
> The usual comparisons that I have read of EV 'emissions' versus
> fossil-fuelled vehicles, considering the source of the electricity, seem
to
> simply compare on the basis of the mix of electricity generation plant in
a
> region or country and the *average* pollution (e.g. grams of CO2 per kWh)
> associated with each.
>
> While obviously having to make a weighted sum corresponding to the
different
> generating fuels used, does anyone know of a publication, or just raw
> figures, for base load versus peak power generation? I'm assuming that
the
> base load plant from which our EVs draw most of their power (can) operate
> more efficiently while creating less pollution than a peak plant?
I've been looking for these figures myself. I have not found it nicely
organized in a single package. The numbers will vary from utility to
utitliy and from time to time. Utilities have very different mixes of base,
intermediate and peak generating capacity. For example, base load is
composed of more hydro in the northwest, more coal in the northeast, and
more natural gas in Texas and California. Also the season and maintenance
schedules alter the baseload mix.
>
> Another way to ask the question is how do base load power station
emissions
> compare to peak generating plant?
Sometimes peaking plants are the oldest, most inefficient, dirtiest plants,
so utilities use them only when necessary for peak loads. However, as
previously mentioned: (From: "steve erlsten"): "In the USA, most base load
is carried by coal-fired powerplants, and most peaking power is provided by
natural gas. Natural gas is cleaner than coal, and the emissions from
peaking power are almost always lower than emissions from base load power."
On the other hand, in specific areas like the northwest, abundant hydropower
probably makes base load cleaner.
>
> My supposition is that the overall reductions in most pollutants that are
> oft quoted from using EVs may actually be greater if we were to only
> consider base load plant? (For those countries like the UK that use quite
a
> mix of sources)
Maybe in other countries, but generally not in the USA.
>
> Another related question is would the widespread use of EVs (and hence
> higher power consumption overnight) allow more efficient use of base load
> plant that could mean no net increase in fuel used or emissions created,
> whether or not peak time energy exporting from vehicles is employed. I
> think that the industry refer to this as "system demand factor" - less
> variability between base load periods and peak periods.
Any time power is used it increases fuel usage (more gas or coal burned,
more uranium reacted, more water through the turbine, etc). Off-peak EV
charging tends to use more efficient and less expensive resources (but not
necessarily cleaner ones). Utilities like off-peak charging because it
levels the load. A level load means they can operate their plants with less
variation and thus more efficiently. The most efficient plants are more
difficult to cut-back and crank-up, so less load variation means more of
these efficeint plants may be used to supply the load.
>
> Has _base load_ capacity in a region been compared to the requirements for
> widespread EV charging overnight?
Here is an old report that touches on this subject for southern California:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/papers/96-EV+EMISSIONS.PDF
>
> A couple of threads touched on this briefly:
> www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg04094.html
> www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg04435.html
>
> Matt
> 1999 Peugeot Scoot'Elec 21,000km
>
Here are some data points I've gathered from the internet comparing
emissions:
(view with fixed width font)
all emissions in grams/mile traveled
Energy Source CO2 NOx SO2 Hydrocarbons CO Particulate
------------- --- --- --- ------------ -- -----------
Ontario Coal Plants 341.0 .9 1.5 ---- --- ----
New Coal Plant 245.0 .06 .08 ---- --- ----
New Gas Plant 130.0 .07 0.0 ---- --- ----
Gasoline (Fleet avg)
(pump to wheel) 416.0 1.4 --- 2.8 20.9 ----
Tier 2 Standard --- .07 --- .09 2.4 0.01
SULEV Standard --- .02 --- .01 1.0 0.01
Gasoline Production
(ground to pump) --- .06 .06 .13 --- ----
Prius (ground to wheel)--- .08 .06 .14 1.0 0.01
The power plant data assumes an EV energy usage of 350 wh/mile. The
"Gasoline" data is for the USA fleet average at 21.5 mpg. I don't think
these numbers include extraction, transportation, or processing of the raw
resources. CO2 emissions from ICE is inversely proportional to mpg, so
considering a Prius, with over twice the mpg of the USA fleet average, Prius
CO2 emissions are less than EV powered by coal. SO2 will always be higher
for coal, and hydrocarbons higher for gasoline. Prius numbers are the sum
of the "SULEV" and "Gasoline Production" lines, to get total emissions from
ground to wheel. Gasoline Production numbers are based on a 50 mpg vehicle
(i.e. the Prius) I'd say the "EV with coal" vs. "Prius with gasoline"
emissions are very similar. Mark T.
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At 01:50 PM 12/04/04 -0600, Ryan wrote:
I'm planning on using Rudman Regs. Speaking of them - for someone that
doesn't mind soldering, does it pay off to buy the PCBs and assemble them
yourself?
Depends on:
a) what your time is worth, and
b) whether you are going to use them as they are.
I went with assemble my own for two reasons:
1) to keep down the shipping and import cost to Australia, and
2) with the number of modifications necessary to be able to do the heat
recovery that I wanted to do there is probably no more time to build than
would be to rebuild.
If you have free time, build, save a little, and have some pleasure in
building your own. But be aware there are some traps. The two most likely
are that one power device is on the opposite side of the PCB to all the
rest, the other is that the voltage reference the PCB was designed for is a
permutation that only used two leads, so for a 'standard' device the leg of
the third needs to be left long and bent to reach the nearby terminal
necessary.
I've just finished assembling my Rudman regs, and am now into my custom
daughter PCBs that interface and do the logic for the heat recovery system.
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
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