EV Digest 3468
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: desulfator circuits?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Charging.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 'electro nerds'
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 'electro nerds'
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charging.
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Two 8" vs 1 9"...Zombie Gets a BIG motor!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: 'electro nerds'
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) cleaner than an EV
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: EVLN(Newsweek: Escape hybrid puts out less pollution than an EV)
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Purchase SAFT STM5.100MRE Ni-Cd batteries
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 'electro nerds'
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The best way to bring a battery back to life if it's been sitting around for
more than 6 months without use is to hit it with a higher voltage, usually
2X will do it until it starts drawing current and then cycle it a couple
times when it comes back to life (although somewhat diminished from a new
battery of course). I don't know of any batteries that are sulfated in
regular EV use, so this is probably a moot point anyway.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: desulfator circuits?
> Mark-
> It's good to know that Trojan looked at the desulfator claims.
> Yet from where I sit, isn't it's just another hear-say datapoint...as
> valuable, more or less, than those with seriously sulfated batteries
who've
> been repeatedly testing these devices and claim that batteries which
always
> failed to charge were later revived by a sufficient pulsating regimen.
>
> Lots of technologies can be trashed as ineffective or unreliable.
> And any tester can cause a test to fail by intentionally or otherwise
> failing to perform the test in the correct manner or not providing
adequate
> time to manifest the changes. For example, I could buy a brand new T105
> battery, regularly overcharge it with a junk charger without knowing it's
> junk, let it go dry, and find I have a battery which dies seriously
> prematurely. Would I be correct in saying that the T-105s or their
> technology is junk? Of course not---I simply failed to maintain or test
it
> correctly.
>
> >From what I have read, the electronic desulfators need to be connected
AND
> OPERATING for some time (1week to over a month for deep Class 2 or 3
> sulfation) before you see any effect.
> It's clear from these claims that if anyone, whether a Trojan employee or
> any other battery expert, simply hooks such a desulfator up on a battery
> overnight and looks at the battery the next morning and says "huh, that
> didn't work" is not doing their homework. Electronic desulfator testers
> have documented the battery state over time with hydrometers as well as
with
> voltage measurements, showing that the internal resistance drops over time
> while the desulfator is connected. I'd like to see any contrary evidence.
>
> I take both sides' claims with a pound and a half of salt.
> To say that 'we tested these things and they had no effect' does noone any
> service.
> Failing to provide any evidence as to what that testing constituted makes
it
> simply a he-said, she-said debate.
> I know that from reading testimony from the desulfator camp, that at least
> some data and photographs are out there to support their claims---and many
> have claimed to have heavily sulfated "dead" batteries come back into use
> with battery internal resistance dropping back into normal range.
> They do indeed insist that the more sulfation, the longer the pulsation
> required. There's also claims that incorporating EDTA treatment in the
> process helps. Also it makes sense that the larger the battery capacity,
> the larger the pulse required---it also makes sense that the desulfator be
> closely attached to the battery.
>
> It's true, fantastic claims need fantastic proof. I offer neither, just
> some insight based on my reading thus far. When I do get my desulfator
> circuit working properly, I'll take what data I can. In the mean time,
I'd
> suggest interested folks take a look at the forementioned desulfator
sites.
>
> -Myles Twete
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
elaine chiu wrote:
I bought the pickup truck with 156 volts. it needs a decent DC/DC
converter. currently has a few vicor modules in parallel with only
about 6 amps output total and a small 12V car battery.
the reading I've done shows
todd - doesn't hold up well, esp. if it gets wet
sevcon - heavy duty, but expensive
curtis - doesn't go high enough for my 156 volts
DCP - used one on ebay, but I can't find any listing for it at their
website - is it no longer made by them?
DC into an AC to 12VDC was mentioned by someone, too, how do you know if
a product can take the DC directly?
Mark Bruggeman, here in ABQ, used an AC/DC converter. Ask around a bit.
Many of them have a simple rectifier on input that could likely
be driven by 156v DC input as easily as 120vAC. Lee... should
you bypass part of the regulator circuit?
156v is well below the 170v peak of a 120vAC line... but then again,
mark's system is a nominal 120v, i think. probobally 138v at full charge.
Perhaps somebody on this list could recommend a good AC/DC converter
that could be altered for this purpose.... i hope?
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod;
Next thing you know they will have you and Rich building EV's with Jesse
James.
Maybe this could be the start of a new weekly show.....
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hey Fortunat, Thanks for the heads up. I just turned on the TV to the
Discovery Channel and the promo was on right then. What a coincidence.
If they are going to call me an "Electro Nerd" they better be ready to
kiss my ass! Ain't no [EMAIL PROTECTED]&ing "Electro Nerds" around these parts. It
was really kind of them to let me know about this - NOT! My problem is
that I am under contract to not say anything bad about them so I will
bite my tongue and wait to see what they turn me into.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Hey
I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
I can't wait.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich;
How about if you and Rod send him a challenge?
I think given Jessie's personality and the fact that they are looking
for vehicles that are "OUTSIDE THE BOX" for Monster garage, you might
just get a positive response.
Bob
Rich Rudman wrote:
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hey Fortunat, Thanks for the heads up. I just turned on the TV to the
Discovery Channel and the promo was on right then. What a
coincidence. If they are going to call me an "Electro Nerd" they
better be ready to kiss my ass! Ain't no [EMAIL PROTECTED]&ing "Electro Nerds"
around these parts. It was really kind of them to let me know about
this - NOT! My problem is that I am under contract to not say
anything bad about them so I will bite my tongue and wait to see what
they turn me into.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Hey
I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
I can't wait.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
Hey Rod... a couple of Deep Breathes...
Yea I guess we are Nerds... Suck amp nerds.
I saw the leader... Comcast Digi Cable Seatttle area channel 8, Well
North Kitsap anyways.
This is going to be fun, but I hope they don't make us look like fools.
Ol' Jessey in Monster Garage has a Gas powered Rail...We need to Kick
his but with 'Trons!!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod;
He would if it generated " PRESS COVERAGE"
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
The Reason I'm so pissed is that this would be the equivalent of
taking Dennis Berube's equivalent in the gas racing crowd and calling
them "Petro Nerds" Do you really believe someone like John Force would
take this lying down. I don't think so!
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> The Sears charger only takes the batteries to 14.25 volts.
Are you sure? That is awfully low for any 12v charger. Make sure your
voltmeter is correct.
Most plain old cheap transformer-rectifier 12v chargers will go to
15-16v when charging a gel cell or AGM.
I would try doing a few charge/discharge cycles on a representative
battery, and see if you get about the same capacity each time. Then, I
would try a deliberate overcharge (fully charge, then let it sit at 15v
and under 1 amp for a few hours), and see if the capacity increases.
If it does, then it may be that the batteries need equalizing. I would
suggest putting a resistor or light bulb in series to limit charging
current to under 1 amp, and charging with a charger that gets to at
least 15v, Leave it on until the battery voltage stops rising. This
might take hours to days.
Also, weigh the batteries. See if they have lost weight compared to
Hawker's data sheet. If so, you may have lost water from overcharging.
Maybe it is possible to salvage them by drilling a hole and adding
water.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NERDS,I hear the words gearheads thrown around all the time,they are just
words.I have been called both at the track and at home.(and I am sure plenty of
other names behind my back)The words I dislike at the track are Slow,gone
red,an put it on the trailer.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
whoa! I thought that Sucking Amps got delayed again until May 2nd?
seth
On Thursday, April 15, 2004, at 08:30 PM, Fortunat Mueller wrote:
Hey
I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
I can't wait.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, This is the pilot for a potential series. If the ratings are
good I will be signing a five year contract. I doubt we will ever be
doing anything with Jesse. His show has a different producer. My
producer, Craig Piligian of Pilgrim Films and Television does
American Chopper and American Hot Rodder. Craig was also the
co-executive producer of the first three of the Survivor Series.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Rod;
Next thing you know they will have you and Rich building EV's with
Jesse James.
Maybe this could be the start of a new weekly show.....
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hey Fortunat, Thanks for the heads up. I just turned on the TV to
the Discovery Channel and the promo was on right then. What a
coincidence. If they are going to call me an "Electro Nerd" they
better be ready to kiss my ass! Ain't no [EMAIL PROTECTED]&ing "Electro Nerds"
around these parts. It was really kind of them to let me know about
this - NOT! My problem is that I am under contract to not say
anything bad about them so I will bite my tongue and wait to see
what they turn me into.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Hey
I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
I can't wait.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--
Roderick Wilde
Vintage Golf Cart Parts
Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 360-385-4868
Fax: 360-385-7922
107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jessie, Rod, an Rich Please put an E dragster together I will be more
than willing to be in the other lane when you run. D Kilowatt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The dc/dc converter that was a computer power supply that I was talking
about awhile back has passed away , not sure what killed it but as I paid $7
dollars for I guess I got my moneys worth , I'm thinking about what Lee had
said about a alternator connected right on the tail shaft of the traction
motor , no pulleys or belts , use a lov joy coupler , could turn it on and
off with the brake switch and have a over ride switch for driving at night.
could have a button on shifter to turn on alternator when shifting . May
even be able to use the pulley on the alternator to run an A/C pump , if
they all came out of the same car the belts might even match.
the computer power supply I used was a 5v , 15+ - and I was only using the
+15 so maybe that did it in .
steve clunn
One problem I see with the alternator on the front of the traction motor
would be explaning that it dosn't charge the traction pack while driving .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aaron Birenboim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
> elaine chiu wrote:
> > I bought the pickup truck with 156 volts. it needs a decent DC/DC
> > converter. currently has a few vicor modules in parallel with only
> > about 6 amps output total and a small 12V car battery.
> >
> > the reading I've done shows
> >
> > todd - doesn't hold up well, esp. if it gets wet
> > sevcon - heavy duty, but expensive
> > curtis - doesn't go high enough for my 156 volts
> > DCP - used one on ebay, but I can't find any listing for it at their
> > website - is it no longer made by them?
> >
> > DC into an AC to 12VDC was mentioned by someone, too, how do you know if
> > a product can take the DC directly?
>
> Mark Bruggeman, here in ABQ, used an AC/DC converter. Ask around a bit.
> Many of them have a simple rectifier on input that could likely
> be driven by 156v DC input as easily as 120vAC. Lee... should
> you bypass part of the regulator circuit?
> 156v is well below the 170v peak of a 120vAC line... but then again,
> mark's system is a nominal 120v, i think. probobally 138v at full charge.
>
> Perhaps somebody on this list could recommend a good AC/DC converter
> that could be altered for this purpose.... i hope?
> --
> Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
> Albuquerque, NM |
> aaron_at_birenboim.com |
> >http://aaron.boim.com |
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I feel that I need to add something to this discussion.
First, Jesse James' show, Monster Garage, is produced by a completely
different company than American Chopper or American Hotrod or Sucking Amps.
Approaching them could possibly violate our production contract.
Second, as far as the "Electro Nerd" part, the writers of the show might be
well served to look inwardly in the search for Nerds. I say this based on
the scripts that were presented to us to read on camera in a recent
filming. I feel they don't have a good grasp of what we are really trying
to do, but will reserve my final opinion until after I see the final product
on Thursday. (We had no input for editing for the final show of the 300-400
tapes originally filmed.) Remember, there ain't no reality in reality TV!
- Father Time
Bob Brooks wrote:
> Rod;
>
> Next thing you know they will have you and Rich building EV's with Jesse
> James.
>
> Maybe this could be the start of a new weekly show.....
>
> Bob
>
> Roderick Wilde wrote:
>
> > Hey Fortunat, Thanks for the heads up. I just turned on the TV to the
> > Discovery Channel and the promo was on right then. What a coincidence.
> > If they are going to call me an "Electro Nerd" they better be ready to
> > kiss my ass! Ain't no [EMAIL PROTECTED]&ing "Electro Nerds" around these parts. It
> > was really kind of them to let me know about this - NOT! My problem is
> > that I am under contract to not say anything bad about them so I will
> > bite my tongue and wait to see what they turn me into.
> >
> > Roderick
> > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> >
> >
> >> Hey
> >>
> >> I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
> >> on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
> >> you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
> >> Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
> >> Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
> >>
> >> I can't wait.
> >>
> >> ~fortunat
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __________________________________
> >> Do you Yahoo!?
> >> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
> >> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
> >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep. I checked it with a new digital VOM; it's sitting dumb and happy at
14.25.
I might just get out the stupid charger (massive Sears 2 rectifiers and
a transformer) and see what happens. Can't be much worse.
How does a light bulb limit current to under an amp? This is probably
related to my question about the zener diodes; won't the light bulb burn
out as the charger pours on the current?
I'll see if I can find a good scale for weighing the batteries. I assume
it would have to be a digital quality one.
Chris
Lee Hart wrote:
Chris Zach wrote:
The Sears charger only takes the batteries to 14.25 volts.
Are you sure? That is awfully low for any 12v charger. Make sure your
voltmeter is correct.
Most plain old cheap transformer-rectifier 12v chargers will go to
15-16v when charging a gel cell or AGM.
I would try doing a few charge/discharge cycles on a representative
battery, and see if you get about the same capacity each time. Then, I
would try a deliberate overcharge (fully charge, then let it sit at 15v
and under 1 amp for a few hours), and see if the capacity increases.
If it does, then it may be that the batteries need equalizing. I would
suggest putting a resistor or light bulb in series to limit charging
current to under 1 amp, and charging with a charger that gets to at
least 15v, Leave it on until the battery voltage stops rising. This
might take hours to days.
Also, weigh the batteries. See if they have lost weight compared to
Hawker's data sheet. If so, you may have lost water from overcharging.
Maybe it is possible to salvage them by drilling a hole and adding
water.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For an interesting site defining the word (nerd) go to:
http://mrwordman.home.att.net/NGSD.html
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
NERDS,I hear the words gearheads thrown around all the time,they are just
words.I have been called both at the track and at home.(and I am
sure plenty of
other names behind my back)The words I dislike at the track are Slow,gone
red,an put it on the
trailer.
Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I personally wouldn't consider doing an electric dragster unless it
was totally over the top outrageous and that equals extremely big
bucks. I know what we have put into "Gone Postal" and a top notch
electric dragster would be extremely more expensive. It would
probably cost much more than a comparable gas or fuel dragster just
as most conversions cost more than the equivalent gas version. I get
calls all the time from people who's gas motor has blown up in their
car and they want to convert to electric power until they hear the
cost. When EVs are plentiful they will end up in wrecking yards and
we will all have affordable second hand parts.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Jessie, Rod, an Rich Please put an E dragster together I will be more
than willing to be in the other lane when you run. D Kilowatt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
>From Dennis:
> > The proof's in the time slips guys. Dennis Berube
>From Rod:
> I'll second that Mr. Kilowatt!
I'll third that....Let's see:
Berube...single BIG motor, direct drive, time slips show his design is 'best in his
category'...prooves a BIG single motor does the deed! (DR/A)
Dube'...dual small motors, direct drive, time slips show his design is 'best in his
category'...prooves two small motors - series-parallel, does the deed! (MT/A)
Crazy Rod...dual medium sized motors, transmission, time slips show his design is
'best in
his category'...prooves two medium sized motors does the deed! (MC/A)
Crazy Rod...dual medium sized motors, transmission, time slips show his design is
'best in
his category'...prooves two medium sized motors does the deed! (MC/B)
Plasma Boy...single BIG motor, direct drive, time slips show my design is 'best in my
category'...prooves a BIG single motor does the deed! (SC/A)
Plasma Boy...dual small motors, direct drive, time slips show my design is 'best in my
category'...prooves two small motors - series-parallel, does the deed! (SC/B)
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
'Plasma Boy Racing...We blow things up, so you don't have to!'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For clarification, 99.9 percent of what you see is directly from "out
of our minds" and mouths. The sound bites that we recently did were
to clarify some missing points in the show. None of us would read
their words but paraphrased the sentences in our own words. As I said
in an earlier post: "Reality TV has made me doubt the truth of my own
fantasies".
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
I feel that I need to add something to this discussion.
First, Jesse James' show, Monster Garage, is produced by a completely
different company than American Chopper or American Hotrod or Sucking Amps.
Approaching them could possibly violate our production contract.
Second, as far as the "Electro Nerd" part, the writers of the show might be
well served to look inwardly in the search for Nerds. I say this based on
the scripts that were presented to us to read on camera in a recent
filming. I feel they don't have a good grasp of what we are really trying
to do, but will reserve my final opinion until after I see the final product
on Thursday. (We had no input for editing for the final show of the 300-400
tapes originally filmed.) Remember, there ain't no reality in reality TV!
- Father Time
Bob Brooks wrote:
Rod;
Next thing you know they will have you and Rich building EV's with Jesse
James.
Maybe this could be the start of a new weekly show.....
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
> Hey Fortunat, Thanks for the heads up. I just turned on the TV to the
> Discovery Channel and the promo was on right then. What a coincidence.
> If they are going to call me an "Electro Nerd" they better be ready to
> kiss my ass! Ain't no [EMAIL PROTECTED]&ing "Electro Nerds" around these parts. It
> was really kind of them to let me know about this - NOT! My problem is
> that I am under contract to not say anything bad about them so I will
> bite my tongue and wait to see what they turn me into.
>
> Roderick
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
>
>
>> Hey
>>
>> I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
>> on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
>> you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
>> Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
>> Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
>>
>> I can't wait.
>>
>> ~fortunat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
>> http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
elaine chiu wrote:
>> I bought the pickup truck with 156 volts. It needs a decent DC/DC
>> converter. Currently has a few Vicor modules in parallel with only
>> about 6 amps output total and a small 12V car battery.
The Vicors are only 12v at 2 amps each? That would be amazingly small
for Vicor. Can you check to see what they really are? The Vicor "full
brick" modules (2.4" x 4.2" x 0.5") deliver 150-600 watts each, 3 of
them would give you more like 30-120 amps.
>> the reading I've done shows
>>
>> Todd - doesn't hold up well, esp. if it gets wet
>> Sevcon - heavy duty, but expensive
>> Curtis - doesn't go high enough for my 156 volts
>> DCP - used one on ebay, but I can't find any listing for it
>> at their website - is it no longer made by them?
This is basically correct.
The Todd isn't really a DC/DC converter; it is a plain old AC input
power supply, optimized for battery charging. It is built for indoor
use, not outdoor automotive use.
> Mark Bruggeman, here in ABQ, used an AC/DC converter. Ask around
> a bit. Many of them have a simple rectifier on input that could
> likely be driven by 156v DC input as easily as 120vAC. Lee...
> should you bypass part of the regulator circuit?
AC input switchmode power supplies can sometimes be used as DC/DC
converters. There are lots of potential problems, and no guarantees:
1. Most are very cheaply made. They barely hold up in an indoor
setting where there is no water, no dirt, no vibration, and no
temperature extremes. Putting them in a car will drastically
increase their failure rate.
So, you have to make a point of getting a very high quality
name-brand model (Lambda, Vicor, etc.). Even then, it won't be
water resistant; mount it where it won't get wet.
2. Most use an AC-only voltage doubler input circuit which converts
120vac into roughly 300vdc. The internal DC/DC won't work with
less than about 200vdc input.
So, you have to get a model that a) specifically lists it DC input
voltage requirements. b) get a model that says "universal input"
or "power factor corrected"; these won't use the AC-only voltage
doubler circuit. c) take it apart and trace out the circuit to
see if it uses an ordinary bridge rectifier (which means it
works equally well on AC or DC).
3. These supplies assume a minimum AC input voltage around 90vac.
This corresponds to 126vdc. Thus, these supplies have a minimum
input voltage limit of about 126vdc. A 144vdc battery pack will
fall to 126vdc when 'dead' (10.5v per 12v battery), so this is
about the lowest safe pack voltage. Good switching supplies will
fail "gracefully" if the input voltage goes below this; they
either shut down or reduce their power output to protect
themselves. Most cheap supplies will simply die!
So, don't try using an AC input switching power supply with a
pack below 144vdc unless you KNOW it has undervoltage protection.
4. A battery has an extremely low internal resistance, and handles
tremendous peak currents. Many switching power supplies have no
output fuses, and their only protection from high current is that
they shut down (and won't restart unless you remove and reconnect
their input power). This is unworkable in an EV.
So, you need to make sure the supply has a working current limit
circuit that won't shut down or overheat if the battery wants to
draw more current than the supply can deliver. And, be SURE there
is a fuse in the output (or put one there yourself)!
> Perhaps somebody on this list could recommend a good AC/DC converter
> that could be altered for this purpose.... I hope?
I have successfully used Vicor, Lambda, and Astec AC-input power
supplies as DC/DC converters. All were models that explicitly listed
their DC input voltage limitations.
I have also used Todd, Megapower, and couple of nameless imported
switchmode power supplies for DC/DCs. They all failed, or had other
problems indicating that they *would* fail.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Father Time wrote:
> Second, as far as the "Electro Nerd" part, the writers of the
> show might be well served to look inwardly in the search for
> Nerds. I say this based on the scripts that were presented
> to us to read on camera in a recent filming. I feel they
> don't have a good grasp of what we are really trying to do,
> but will reserve my final opinion until after I see the final
> product on Thursday. (We had no input for editing for the
> final show of the 300-400 tapes originally filmed.)
> Remember, there ain't no reality in reality TV!
Uh oh.
For some reason I was under the (hopeful) impression that this was to be
a documentary of sorts. They gave you guys scripts?
I've had some limited experience with this sort of thing. It could turn
out well or it could turn out badly, depending solely on what the
producers and director want to present. It will certainly be different
from what those being filmed might expect. If the show is picked up and
you guys aren't happy with the pilot, don't be shy about assisting the
producers in making the series more realistic, while still giving it
plenty of (ahem) "personality". They should be fairly open to this.
Any series will evolve into something different from what was originally
conceived.
I have my fingers crossed. I also don't have cable, so I hope someone
figures out a way to let the "less connected" among us view the pilot.
Chris
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So what if we take an eletrically heated catalytic converter and blower
and push air thru it with a fan, could we make air cleaning EV's that
offset their power plant HC and NO, and SO2 emmisions? :-)
or will that only count if it comes from regenerative breaking. LOL
The best way to handle emmisions is not to make them in the first place,
moving them to the power plant is the first move in that direction
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What would the list say about using an alternator on a dual-shaft
motor? You could put in a heavy-duty alternator for 100 amps or
more of charging and have a "kickdown switch" to disable it when
at full throttle or when the aux battery is charged. As long as you're
not driving in stop-and-go traffic at night, it probably would be
enough to keep the aux battery charged. I'm on a shoestring, so I'd
be willing to take the hit in efficiency if it means I don't have to take
another $300-400 hit up front. (Alternators are cheap, and if you're
doing a conversion from an ICE, you already have one for free.)
Tim
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: elaine chiu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 02:50:36 -0700
I bought the pickup truck with 156 volts. it needs a decent DC/DC
converter. currently has a few vicor modules in parallel with only
about 6 amps output total and a small 12V car battery.
the reading I've done shows
todd - doesn't hold up well, esp. if it gets wet
sevcon - heavy duty, but expensive
curtis - doesn't go high enough for my 156 volts
DCP - used one on ebay, but I can't find any listing for it at their
website - is it no longer made by them?
DC into an AC to 12VDC was mentioned by someone, too, how do you know
if a product can take the DC directly?
any current consensus on a reliable, reasonably priced dc/dc converter
to go from 144-156 vdc to 13? probably need 30 amps?
Is it possible to take 4 of the 36-48 volt to 12 volt modules they sell
surplus and connect them across 3-4 batteries at a time, paralleling
the 12 volt outputs together? I can't tell if these modules need to
have a common ground to the 12 volts, where obviously this idea
wouldn't work. what do you guys think?
or, once I figure how much night driving we do, the cheapest may still
be to charge the auxiliary battery separately when I charge the main
pack?
elaine
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>One problem I see with the alternator on the front of
>the traction
>motor
>would be explaning that it dosn't charge the traction
>pack while
>driving .
Steve,
Just add a windmill to the coupling, that will explain
it!!!
Add a hood scoop with the output going to the
windmill,
explain that 'it increases horsepower, just like an
ICE
vehicles hood scoop'
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Well, here's the other reason why hybrids will NEVER be cleaner than EV's.
My Chevy Metro (ULEV) passed its smog check in August, with 116,873 miles
on the clock. During those 116,873 miles, the emissions got substantially
worse
(22 ppm HC and 0.2% CO, compared to the average for this model of 12 ppm and
0.1%, respectively.) Other Metros, possibly not as well cared for or as
well made,
can get up to 8 times the "average" HC and 10 times the "average" CO before
they will fail smog. While I can't find the numbers for ULEV requirements,
I can
guarantee that they're quite a bit lower than my car tested, so even with my
changing
the plugs, oil, etc. on a regular basis, my car is still dirtier than when
it was made.
Meanwhile, Bruce Parmenter's Blazer is running cleaner than it did last
year. Why?
Because 500 miles to the south in Riverside, they put up a solar array at
the
Metrolink station that can provide power during peak hours to 110 homes.
That
means less time on the peaker plants during the day, and less natural gas
burned.
Any charging Bruce does during peak hours contains just a tiny bit more
clean
energy than it did last year, and Bruce didn't have to do a thing. That
doesn't count
the pure gas smell that comes out of my car when I start it on a cold day,
or the
occasional miss I'm seeing because my O2 sensor is going bad now.
BTW, my Ford Ranger, definitely not ULEV, put out less than a quarter of the
HC of
the newer ULEV Metro, and an unmeasurable amount of CO. What does that say
about their LEV/ULEV/SULEV/PZEV ratings? And my carbureted Honda Accord
put out twice the HC and 22 times the CO of the Metro. Guess what's getting
converted first?
Tim
-----------
From: Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: EVLN(Newsweek: Escape hybrid puts out less pollution than an
EV)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 22:19:41 -0700
On Wednesday, April 14, 2004 4:59 PM, Lightning Ryan
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I for one would very much like to see a full retraction from
Gersh Kuntzman of Newsweek and MSN for this blanket attack on
"an electric car",
Me too, however it ain't likely to happen.
Gersh believes that the hybrid is cleaner than an EV because
electricity in his area is primarily (or solely) generated by coal
burning plants, and he says plants in his area have apparently been
cited for emissions violations relatively frequently or commonly,
particularly since Bush came to office (his assertion, not mine).
Others tried pointing him to Chip Cribben's article; I pointed him
also to the Union of Concerned Scientists' site and to the study
performed by the Electric Vehicle Association of Canada for the
Canadian government, both of which point out that EVs are somewhat to
significantly cleaner than gasoline vehicles even considering the
generating mix.
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Rod;
I hope it turns into a series!!!
I watch both American Chopper and American Hot Rodder, in fact I was on
the set when they filmed the original American Chopper episode with the
Tuetels, their shop is just up the road, and I am friendly with the guy
that was the OCC shop foreman at that time.
Good Luck with the show!!!!
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Bob, This is the pilot for a potential series. If the ratings are good
I will be signing a five year contract. I doubt we will ever be doing
anything with Jesse. His show has a different producer. My producer,
Craig Piligian of Pilgrim Films and Television does American Chopper
and American Hot Rodder. Craig was also the co-executive producer of
the first three of the Survivor Series.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Rod;
Next thing you know they will have you and Rich building EV's with
Jesse James.
Maybe this could be the start of a new weekly show.....
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hey Fortunat, Thanks for the heads up. I just turned on the TV to
the Discovery Channel and the promo was on right then. What a
coincidence. If they are going to call me an "Electro Nerd" they
better be ready to kiss my ass! Ain't no [EMAIL PROTECTED]&ing "Electro Nerds"
around these parts. It was really kind of them to let me know about
this - NOT! My problem is that I am under contract to not say
anything bad about them so I will bite my tongue and wait to see
what they turn me into.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Hey
I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
I can't wait.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
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Hello,
I have the same vehicle (5doors, 2001 model), where do you live ?
If you are in europe i can help, otherwise i can help too ;^) but shipment
price will be to high to be really interesting.
contact me off list, i would be pleased sharing knowledge with you.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Yttervik, Roger (MED)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 16, 2004 12:53 PM
Subject: Purchase SAFT STM5.100MRE Ni-Cd batteries
> Hi
> I wish to purchase a set(20) of SAFT STM5.100MRE for my Ciroen Saxo
> Electric.
> Can anyone tell me where I may do this.
>
> Roger
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Dennis;
Even though my drag racing experience was with gas powered cars I have
to agree with you!
Bob
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
NERDS,I hear the words gearheads thrown around all the time,they are just
words.I have been called both at the track and at home.(and I am sure plenty of
other names behind my back)The words I dislike at the track are Slow,gone
red,an put it on the trailer.
Dennis Berube
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Actually American Chopper is pretty close to what actually goes on in
OCC's shop. Of course the timing is staged and events are compressed to
fit into the format of the show. But the personalities and the "
encounters" in the shop happen with or without the camera.
Bob
Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree wrote:
I feel that I need to add something to this discussion.
First, Jesse James' show, Monster Garage, is produced by a completely
different company than American Chopper or American Hotrod or Sucking Amps.
Approaching them could possibly violate our production contract.
Second, as far as the "Electro Nerd" part, the writers of the show might be
well served to look inwardly in the search for Nerds. I say this based on
the scripts that were presented to us to read on camera in a recent
filming. I feel they don't have a good grasp of what we are really trying
to do, but will reserve my final opinion until after I see the final product
on Thursday. (We had no input for editing for the final show of the 300-400
tapes originally filmed.) Remember, there ain't no reality in reality TV!
- Father Time
Bob Brooks wrote:
Rod;
Next thing you know they will have you and Rich building EV's with Jesse
James.
Maybe this could be the start of a new weekly show.....
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hey Fortunat, Thanks for the heads up. I just turned on the TV to the
Discovery Channel and the promo was on right then. What a coincidence.
If they are going to call me an "Electro Nerd" they better be ready to
kiss my ass! Ain't no [EMAIL PROTECTED]&ing "Electro Nerds" around these parts. It
was really kind of them to let me know about this - NOT! My problem is
that I am under contract to not say anything bad about them so I will
bite my tongue and wait to see what they turn me into.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
Hey
I just saw a promo for the premier of 'Sucking Amps'
on discovery. They showed some good footage and called
you guys 'electro nerds', which of course you are.
Promo was on tonight and said 'show premiers next
Thursday at 10 PM (EST)'.
I can't wait.
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
--- End Message ---
