EV Digest 3478
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Min clearances
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Min clearances
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) re: Min. clearance
by David Brandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV's in the UK
by Matt Trevaskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Min. clearance
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV's in the UK, comments
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: EV's in the UK
by "robert fall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: EV's in the UK
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: AVCON interface
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Lawn mower
by "R. D. Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: insight hack
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Subaru Justy
by "Ken Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Lawn mower
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: insight hack
by "" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Cheney's anti EV and solar statement.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: FW: Lawn mower
by "" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV's in the UK
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Min clearances
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: EV's in the UK (racing milk float)
by "Ed Thorpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lawn mower
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Lawn mower
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Lawn mower
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV's in the UK
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EV's in the UK
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Ft. Pierce's 5th EV rally
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: [RAV4-EV] EBEAA Annual Spring EV Display & Drive/Ride Rally, Saturday 4/24/04
10-4 in Pleasant Hill/Concord, CA
by "Ed Thorpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
by "Mark Brueggemann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Converting a Nissan Murano
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: insight hack
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Or make it easy on yourself and give up your back seat.
>
> Chris
>
On my Mazda 2 PU I have the all the batteries infront of the back axcel and
feels much better going down the road , getting that weight in the middle
will make a difference . What was the ah of your old batteries ( when new )
/?
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Or make it easy on yourself and give up your back seat.
Can't do. Requirement #1 of this thing is to be able to take the family.
On my Mazda 2 PU I have the all the batteries infront of the back axcel and
feels much better going down the road , getting that weight in the middle
will make a difference . What was the ah of your old batteries ( when new )
Part of the reason I love the Prizm. All of the batteries are between
the front and rear wheels, as low as they can possibly be. makes for a
car that is as stable as a rock.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris, exactly how much height do you have in the closed battery box, and
what is your clearance right now with all batteries installed at the lowest
point - I've been looking at some battery specs, but I need more to go on.
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert,
Probably the easiest vehicle to obtain and maintain is the Citroen Berlingo
electrique, which is only available as the commercial (van) version -
Citroen don't make the Berlingo car version with the electric drive.
Top speed is about 60mph and max range is claimed to be 59 miles which at
30mph is about right I would say, but at higher speed driving (e.g. dual
carriageways) expect more like 30 miles. Any Citroen commercial dealer
should be able to get hold of it, but they need to have a mechanic trained
to service it. You may need to be persistent, even to get a brochure!
I borrowed one for a weekend (actually the Peugeot Partner equivalent) and
the range at lower speeds seems accurate. Nice drive. Still thinking of
buying one.
Citroen changed the pricing structure - they used to lease the batteries at
GBP74+VAT per month, but now sell them with the van, pushing the price up to
about GBP14,500 - but you can get a Powershift grant from the Energy Savings
Trust which knocks a few grand off that, and then no ongoing costs for
leasing :-)
The Peugeot 106 electrique is/was available as both a car and van but really
only to fleets. You can hop on a ferry and buy one in France though, albeit
with LHD! Quoted range is lower at 50 miles (so real world between 25 and
40 I would guess)
The electric versions of the Citroen Saxo, Renault Kangoo and Fiat Seicento
never made it across/under the Channel so I wouldn't even consider importing
one for the problematic servicing and parts availability.
I don't know of a UK-based list, but would be interested too.
Matt (Cornwall)
1999 Peugeot Scoot'elec 13,000 miles
> From: "robert fall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:51:58 +0100
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: EV's in the UK
>
> Hello,
>
> I have just joined the list. I do not currently own an electric vehicle,
> but I am very keen to learn where I might obtain one.
>
> Getting hold of an electric vehicle in the UK is very difficult. The
> only one I can find is at www.goingreen.co.uk but it has a prohibitive
> top speed (40 miles per hour (about 65 kmph)) and range (again 40
> miles).
>
> I was ideally looking for one with a top speed of about 55mph (about
> 90kmph) and a range of 50 miles (80km) or so.
>
> Does anyone know;
>
> 1. Where or how I might go about getting an electric vehicle in the UK
> 2. If there is a UK-based EV discussion list?
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Robert
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's about .5 inches taller than the hawker Genesis batteries. It's a
very snug fit in there; the batteries have a plastic plate that goes on
top of them but they are pressed against the top of the clamshell case
when you tighten the tray bolts. Very snug; keeps it from banging around
in there.
I'll check the clearance at lowest point, but it's 3 inches lower than
the sheet metal fold line on the Prizm and above the lowest suspension
point.
Chris
David Brandt wrote:
Chris, exactly how much height do you have in the closed battery box, and
what is your clearance right now with all batteries installed at the lowest
point - I've been looking at some battery specs, but I need more to go on.
David Brandt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: robert fall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:51 AM
Subject: EV's in the UK
> Hello,
>
> I have just joined the list. I do not currently own an electric vehicle,
> but I am very keen to learn where I might obtain one.
>
> Getting hold of an electric vehicle in the UK is very difficult. The
> only one I can find is at www.goingreen.co.uk but it has a prohibitive
> top speed (40 miles per hour (about 65 kmph)) and range (again 40
> miles).
> Yeah! Sigh! it won't make it here, ether!But better than the @#$% NEV's!
> I was ideally looking for one with a top speed of about 55mph (about
> 90kmph) and a range of 50 miles (80km) or so.
> Snip!
A Norwegian Think?
> Does anyone know;
>
> 1. Where or how I might go about getting an electric vehicle in the UK
> 2. If there is a UK-based EV discussion list?
>
> Thank you in advance,
> Robert
Hi Robert;
From anothewr Robert, Bob, across the Pond. Welcome aboard! Thoughts on
getting an EV in England, or Europe: Can ya hop over to France on the
Eurostar and shop about Frances' offerings, Peaugeots, Renaults, I think
EV's are sold to common folks there? Or Maybe Norway? The Thinks' home turf?
Canya drive from Norway to England, partly by car ferry, maybe? Sure closer
than the Colonies, here! Thinks are sold in Norway, I Think?
BTW there ARE guyz in England on the List. Maybe the'll chime in here.
There IS a association of EVers there. With yur petrel prices, I'm surprised
that the bulk of EVers arent in the UK!!
Seeya
Bob in NEW England, ......CT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Matt,
Thanks, that's great. Have you seen this;
http://www.citroen.mb.ca/citroenet/html/b/blingo3.htm
It gives a good summary of the specs.
I rang Citroen and the first guy said "we don't have a brochure" and
then hung up when I asked for one!
When I rang them back the next lady was much more helpful. She took all
my details and said she would arrange a test drive.
I rang again as I realised I'd forgot to ask if I could have a back seat
fitted, and the next guy I spoke to said this would be possible but I'd
have to get it done privately and that the extra weight would reduce the
range.
Then the dealer rang and said that Citroen were talking rubbish, that
they didn't have an electic van in their fleet, and that the batteries
would be on lease. When I said I'd have to ring back Citroen to check
where else I could buy one, he started to become a little more helpful
and said he'd look into it and ring me back. I'll let you know how I get
on.
Citroen told me the battery life would be about five years. Do you think
it would be very difficult to get a replacement battery after this time?
I've faxed citroen to ask, since the last time I rang they put me on
hold.
I think that what we need to do in the UK is to try and get EV's more
available. EV's need to raise their public profile and thus raise
demand. Most people just don't know that EV's even exist.
How would you feel about the idea of co-writing an article about EV's
and seeing how many local papers, car magazines, student papers,
websites etc that we can get it on to. Even if our focus was just on one
model (like the Berlingo) maybe we could start of a bit of a snowball
that would stimulate the market. OK, maybe I'm getting a bit carried
away, but seriously, how about having a stab at co-authoring an article?
Robert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds great, now if I could only get one in the states I'd be set.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
A person's maturity consists in having found again the seriousness one had
as a child, at play. - Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of robert fall
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:33 AM
> To: 'Matt Trevaskis'
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: EV's in the UK
>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> Thanks, that's great. Have you seen this;
>
> http://www.citroen.mb.ca/citroenet/html/b/blingo3.htm
>
> It gives a good summary of the specs.
>
> I rang Citroen and the first guy said "we don't have a brochure" and
> then hung up when I asked for one!
>
> When I rang them back the next lady was much more helpful.
> She took all
> my details and said she would arrange a test drive.
>
> I rang again as I realised I'd forgot to ask if I could have
> a back seat
> fitted, and the next guy I spoke to said this would be
> possible but I'd
> have to get it done privately and that the extra weight would
> reduce the
> range.
>
> Then the dealer rang and said that Citroen were talking rubbish, that
> they didn't have an electic van in their fleet, and that the batteries
> would be on lease. When I said I'd have to ring back Citroen to check
> where else I could buy one, he started to become a little more helpful
> and said he'd look into it and ring me back. I'll let you
> know how I get
> on.
>
> Citroen told me the battery life would be about five years.
> Do you think
> it would be very difficult to get a replacement battery after
> this time?
> I've faxed citroen to ask, since the last time I rang they put me on
> hold.
>
> I think that what we need to do in the UK is to try and get EV's more
> available. EV's need to raise their public profile and thus raise
> demand. Most people just don't know that EV's even exist.
>
> How would you feel about the idea of co-writing an article about EV's
> and seeing how many local papers, car magazines, student papers,
> websites etc that we can get it on to. Even if our focus was
> just on one
> model (like the Berlingo) maybe we could start of a bit of a snowball
> that would stimulate the market. OK, maybe I'm getting a bit carried
> away, but seriously, how about having a stab at co-authoring
> an article?
>
> Robert
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try this
http://solstice.crest.org/discussion/ev/200109/msg00995.html
I have installed AVCON inlet in both of my EVs.
Ed Ang
--- Scott Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Is anyone able to point me to some information on
> how to attach an AVCON receptacle to my charger?
>
> I've got a US Electricar S10, and would like to be
> able to plug it into public charging spots. It came
> with an AVCON receptacle in the bed box, but it was
> not attached.
>
> Thanks
> Scott
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My 6hp push mower is rusting out. I want to replace it with an electric.
Has any one heard of a walk behind electric mower (SELF PROPELED because of
weight) The comercial models I have seen are so UNDER powered. I would
even build one if there were plans.
I have seen a few of the Electric lawn tractors but the size of my yard
would not be a good match for some thing that large. (turning radius)
R. D. Childers
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
512-826-1457
http://www.austinev.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> BTW our bigger lathes at work use series/parallel switch for it's 2
>> power ranges high and low
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> The lathe normally runs at fixed speeds, right?
Yes, but I think he means the lathe has an inverter drive to provide
variable speed control instead of a gearbox with dozens of speeds. I too
have an Aerovironment inverter that describes wiring the motor for
120vac or 240vac depending on whether you want to optimize torque or
speed.
Look at it this way. An induction motor is basically a transformer. The
stator is the primary, and the rotor is the secondary. The main
difference is that power is taken from the secondary mechanically, not
electrically.
For a given torque and speed, the inverter needs to deliver a particular
voltage and current to the secondary (rotor). The turns ratio tells you
what corresponding voltage and current you have to apply to the primary
(stator) to get this voltage and current. Let's say that with the
motor's present turns ratio, the torque and speed you want requires
100vac and 100amps be applied to the primary (stator).
If the inverter is powered from a 300vdc supply, it can deliver anything
up to about 214vac. So, it can directly produce 100vac. However, this is
a roughly 2:1 voltage step-down. The larger the step-down ratio, the
lower the inverter efficiency. You have about 6v drop in the IGBTs;
6v/100v=6% loss. And we're stepping the current up roughly 2:1,
producing about 4% I^2R loss. Total loss is around 10%, or 90%
efficiency.
Now suppose you reconnect the motor windings in series. Instead of
100vac at 100amps, you need 200vac at 50amps for exactly the same torque
and speed. Motor operation is unchanged, but the inverter runs more
efficiently. IGBT losses drop to 6v/200v=3%, and I^2R losses drop to 1%.
Total loss is around 4%, or 96% efficiency.
Now you might say, "Suppose the motor is always left at this turns
ratio." Then you'd have a problem if the desired torque and speed were
such that you can't get the voltage high enough to produce it.
The bottom line is that if you try to make your controller do *all* of
the voltage/current convervsion so you can use a fixed-winding motor,
then the controller has to deal with a very large range of voltages and
currents. Its cost goes up and its efficiency goes down. If you allow
series/parallel changes in the motor windings (which adds cost to the
motor), you can reduce the voltage/current operating range of your
controller, saving cost and improving efficiency.
Exactly *where* the optimal tradeoff is between motor and controller
complexity is the question that the engineers have to face. There are
examples like the "chorus" motor that has huge numbers of windings,
driven in series/parallel by dozens of very simple square-wave
inverters. They opted to maximize motor complexity but simplify
inverters as much as possible.
> No brushes please, even for the slip rings.
Why not? Every motor in a car already has brushes or slip rings. When
was the last time any of them were ever replaced in the life of a car?
When car electric motors or alternators fail, it isn't because the
brushes wore out!
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone.
I have a 91 4Dr Subaru Justy DL 4x4 ECVT with a bad trans that would be
a excellent donor car for a EV. As a matter of fact that is why I got
it, but then ran out of prioritizable time.
I live north of Seattle, if there is anyone in the pacific northwest who
would like to come get it; I will give it to them. I have the title, it
has 91k miles on the clock, silver exterior, gray interior, straight and
clean. I even have the ICE that you can buy for $50 for a APU trailer.
Everything is there, and I will even power wash all of the tree stuff
off!
Email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info, and or pictures.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Black & Decker makes a very nice rechargeable mulching mower. A friend
of mine has one here in Florida has been using it for a couple of years
with no problem.
It is the: Black & Decker Cordless Mulching Lawn Mowers CMM1000
You can purchase them from most lawn equipment stores, but it may be a
special order item. They tend to sell for between $400 - 430. Looks like
you can order it Amazon or Wal-Mart for the best prices.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=Black+%26+Decker+cmm1000
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of R. D. Childers
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Lawn mower
My 6hp push mower is rusting out. I want to replace it with an electric.
Has any one heard of a walk behind electric mower (SELF PROPELED because
of
weight) The comercial models I have seen are so UNDER powered. I would
even build one if there were plans.
I have seen a few of the Electric lawn tractors but the size of my yard
would not be a good match for some thing that large. (turning radius)
R. D. Childers
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
512-826-1457
http://www.austinev.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Why not? Every motor in a car already has brushes or slip rings. When was
> the last time any of them were ever replaced in the life of a car? When car
> electric motors or alternators fail, it isn't because the brushes wore out!
I hope you didn't mean this the way I understood it. In my 3 decades of DIY auto
repair, the ONLY failure of wiper, starter and window motors has been brushes. NONE of
them failed due to bad bearings or burnt windings. Fan motors, yes I have seen a few
bearing failures.
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"If you're one of those people who puts solar panels on your house or drives
a battery powered car, you might as well vote for Gore"
-- Dick Cheney Oct 3, 2000
If he really said this he is more evil than I thought. Lawrence
Rhodes..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If your lawn is that small, use a corded electric lawn mower, not cordless. Then
weight is not an issue, and neither is battery replacement. Before I got my Elec-Trak
I mowed my .75ac with a 25 yr old craftsman corded electric and 150ft of contractor
grade extension cord. I still use that mower for touch up mowing.
It only takes one or two mowings before you learn the "right" way to mow to optimize
extension cord usage.
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of R. D. Childers
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:24 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Lawn mower
>
>
> My 6hp push mower is rusting out. I want to replace it with an electric. Has
> any one heard of a walk behind electric mower (SELF PROPELED because of
> weight) The comercial models I have seen are so UNDER powered. I would
> even build one if there were plans.
>
> I have seen a few of the Electric lawn tractors but the size of my yard
> would not be a good match for some thing that large. (turning radius)
>
> R. D. Childers
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 512-826-1457
> http://www.austinev.org/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
robert fall wrote:
> I rang Citroen and the first guy said "we don't have a brochure" and
> then hung up when I asked for one! [snip]
Citroen is not unique in this kind of thing. There does seem to be a
deliberate campaign of silence and disinformation about EVs from the
auto manufacturers.
When the major manufacturers in the USA (Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota,
Honda, and Nissan) were required to build EVs for California, I
contacted all of them to see if I could lease/buy one in Minnesota. The
answers I got were equally discouraging, dismissive, and even abusive.
> I think that what we need to do in the UK is to try and get EV's
> more available. EV's need to raise their public profile and thus
> raise demand. Most people just don't know that EV's even exist.
What's funny is that the UK probably has more EVs on the road than the
USA. How many thousands of electric milk floats are there?
Hmm... are used milk floats available? Could one take a cutting torch to
one to severely lighten it, and replace the batteries, motor, and
controller with high-performance parts? Build a british version of
Roderick Wilde's "Gone Postal" mail truck? :-)
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With a DC to AC converter(inverter) you should be able to run a plethora of
cheap 12v/5v power supplies. Lawrence Rhodes..........The problem is
finding one that will accept 156v or higher. Lawrence Rhodes...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: dc/dc converter rec's for 156 volts?
>
> >aux batt. This Iota has now outlasted both of the Todd's that failed. I
> >don't think the Todd is particularily robust, nor do I recommend anyone
> >install them in their EV's now that I've had experience with a better
> >unit. The Iota is easy to find and buy, and replace if necessary at a
> >resonable cost
> >
> >
> >Mark Brueggemann
> >
> >
>
> Mark, where did you get your Iota? I've found a few places, but wonder
> if a better buy exists - you said yours was re-branded. As what?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
>
> --
> See the great April rebates on Zillas at http://www.evsource.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some states also have minimum height restrictions for your headlights;
California Highway Patrol in particular are picky.
Tim
-----------
From: "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Min clearances
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:55:57 +0000
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Depends on the state.� In Texas, no part of the car can be lower than the
lowest part of the wheel (metal wheel, not tire) or it will not pass
inspection.� Since Maryland has no annual inspection, road clearance is more
of a concern.� You don't want your battery boxes ripped off by a higher than
normal manhole (I had a transmission pan punctured by one a few years back)
or other obstacle.
_________________________________________________________________
Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steedy Float delivers record.
Already happened.
Featured on page 22 of Sep/Oct 03 CE.
73.39 mph, by VXL Automotive in Rogerstone, UK. The Electron E150 set a land
speed record in a local competition.
-Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:40 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EV's in the UK
...
What's funny is that the UK probably has more EVs on the road than the
USA. How many thousands of electric milk floats are there?
Hmm... are used milk floats available? Could one take a cutting torch to
one to severely lighten it, and replace the batteries, motor, and
controller with high-performance parts? Build a british version of
Roderick Wilde's "Gone Postal" mail truck? :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 10:24, R. D. Childers wrote:
> My 6hp push mower is rusting out. I want to replace it with an electric.
> Has any one heard of a walk behind electric mower (SELF PROPELED because of
> weight) The comercial models I have seen are so UNDER powered. I would
> even build one if there were plans.
We bought a Black and Decker corded mower. They are more inexpensive
than either gas or the cordless model, and the cord isn't really that
big of a hassle for our 3rd acre lawn.
None of the electrics seemed to be self propelled, but the corded ones
are about half to a third the weight of a gas mower. My wife had no
complaints about pushing it.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Has any one heard of a walk behind electric mower (SELF PROPELED because of
>weight) The comercial models I have seen are so UNDER powered. I would
>even build one if there were plans.
Check out this link:
http://www.flymo.com/node77.asp
On the right hand side, they have wheeled, and hover? mowers.
I have an older one made by this same company. It looks cheap (and was cheap, as it
was found it on a curb on trash day) But it works great.
Richard
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On Wed, 21 Apr 2004, Mark Farver wrote:
> We bought a Black and Decker corded mower. They are more inexpensive
> than either gas or the cordless model, and the cord isn't really that
> big of a hassle for our 3rd acre lawn.
>
> None of the electrics seemed to be self propelled, but the corded ones
> are about half to a third the weight of a gas mower. My wife had no
> complaints about pushing it.
Do you count the Robomower as self-propelled? ;-) (You can control it
rather than letting it mow autonomously by using the tethered control pad
that's built-in)
Mine is outside mowing now as I type this.
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Robert,
contact me off-list i will help you driving electric.
Matt, i don't understand range you indicate, all PSA (Peugeot citroen) cars
i have driven were about 40 to 50 miles (heavy foot on throttle or light
one) range
30 miles seems to me poor batterie health indication.
My Saxo is between 45 to 55 miles now (i make some hard discharge to 60V it
produce "magic" effect on their health!)
Philippe, from France
1997 Peugeot Scoot'elec 3500 miles
1996 Peugeot Scoot'elec 11,000 miles
2001 Citroen Saxo 9000 miles
Aprilia Extrema EV project in the way...i have Alltrax 72V450A controller,
50ah Saft aircraft nicad, 60V Lemco motor...still looking for time :^(
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Trevaskis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "robert fall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: EV's in the UK
> ,
>
> Probably the easiest vehicle to obtain and maintain is the Citroen
Berlingo
> electrique, which is only available as the commercial (van) version -
> Citroen don't make the Berlingo car version with the electric drive.
> Top speed is about 60mph and max range is claimed to be 59 miles which at
> 30mph is about right I would say, but at higher speed driving (e.g. dual
> carriageways) expect more like 30 miles. Any Citroen commercial dealer
> should be able to get hold of it, but they need to have a mechanic trained
> to service it. You may need to be persistent, even to get a brochure!
>
> I borrowed one for a weekend (actually the Peugeot Partner equivalent) and
> the range at lower speeds seems accurate. Nice drive. Still thinking of
> buying one.
>
> Citroen changed the pricing structure - they used to lease the batteries
at
> GBP74+VAT per month, but now sell them with the van, pushing the price up
to
> about GBP14,500 - but you can get a Powershift grant from the Energy
Savings
> Trust which knocks a few grand off that, and then no ongoing costs for
> leasing :-)
>
> The Peugeot 106 electrique is/was available as both a car and van but
really
> only to fleets. You can hop on a ferry and buy one in France though,
albeit
> with LHD! Quoted range is lower at 50 miles (so real world between 25 and
> 40 I would guess)
>
> The electric versions of the Citroen Saxo, Renault Kangoo and Fiat
Seicento
> never made it across/under the Channel so I wouldn't even consider
importing
> one for the problematic servicing and parts availability.
>
> I don't know of a UK-based list, but would be interested too.
>
> Matt (Cornwall)
> 1999 Peugeot Scoot'elec 13,000 miles
>
> > From: "robert fall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 08:51:58 +0100
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: EV's in the UK
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I have just joined the list. I do not currently own an electric vehicle,
> > but I am very keen to learn where I might obtain one.
> >
> > Getting hold of an electric vehicle in the UK is very difficult. The
> > only one I can find is at www.goingreen.co.uk but it has a prohibitive
> > top speed (40 miles per hour (about 65 kmph)) and range (again 40
> > miles).
> >
> > I was ideally looking for one with a top speed of about 55mph (about
> > 90kmph) and a range of 50 miles (80km) or so.
> >
> > Does anyone know;
> >
> > 1. Where or how I might go about getting an electric vehicle in the UK
> > 2. If there is a UK-based EV discussion list?
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> > Robert
> >
>
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I forget to indicate:
106 and Saxo production are stopped, though stock ones are available for
some time, i heard they still produce few Partner or berlingo but you
really have to go at dealer with a gun to obtain info and threaten killing
someone to be autorized buying one ;^)
There is still few interesting second hand EV in France, USA is too far but
no problem for UK thanks to the shuttle.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: EV's in the UK
> robert fall wrote:
> > I rang Citroen and the first guy said "we don't have a brochure" and
> > then hung up when I asked for one! [snip]
>
> Citroen is not unique in this kind of thing. There does seem to be a
> deliberate campaign of silence and disinformation about EVs from the
> auto manufacturers.
>
> When the major manufacturers in the USA (Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota,
> Honda, and Nissan) were required to build EVs for California, I
> contacted all of them to see if I could lease/buy one in Minnesota. The
> answers I got were equally discouraging, dismissive, and even abusive.
>
> > I think that what we need to do in the UK is to try and get EV's
> > more available. EV's need to raise their public profile and thus
> > raise demand. Most people just don't know that EV's even exist.
>
> What's funny is that the UK probably has more EVs on the road than the
> USA. How many thousands of electric milk floats are there?
>
> Hmm... are used milk floats available? Could one take a cutting torch to
> one to severely lighten it, and replace the batteries, motor, and
> controller with high-performance parts? Build a british version of
> Roderick Wilde's "Gone Postal" mail truck? :-)
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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Electric car rally this Saturday 4/24/04 11am to 3pm , for more information
www.grassrootsev.com click on events .
Steve Clunn 772 465-1982
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Reminder about Rally this Saturday. Concord, California.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ed Thorpe
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 4:12 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [RAV4-EV] EBEAA Annual Spring EV Display & Drive/Ride Rally,
Saturday 4/24/04 10-4 in Pleasant Hill/Concord, CA
*********START OF MEETING / RALLY ANNOUNCEMENT***********
Annual Spring EV Display & Drive/Ride Rally
Saturday, April 24, 2004
10 am to 4 pm.
Meeting Location: Diablo Valley College, 321 Golf Club Dr, Pleasant Hill, CA
Public outreach event.
April is the month of Earth Day celebrations. Besides encouraging members to
participate in the various Earth Day events around the area, we also have
our own event. Our Chapter holds our annual EV Rally in Concord/Pleasant
Hill, on the north-east side of our membership coverage. (We have another
rally in the Fall in Hayward.) During this event, we display our EVs, which
encourages people to come up and ask lots of questions. We also have a
driving route, where people can be a passenger in an EV and experience
first-hand the quiet and gas-free virtues of electric drive.
Driving route starts and stops at Diablo Valley College, in Pleasant Hill.
Then travels around the Sun Valley Mall, under highway I-680, past several
car/SUV dealerships, past the Willow Shopping Center in Concord, back under
the freeway and around the front of Sun Valley Mall again. It's a 3.2 mile
loop. Great exposure.
For the adventurous types, we also record the distance traveled during the
rally, so see how far various types of vehicles can travel on city streets
on a single charge. In anticipation of this, we encourage participate who
have a distance to travel to arrange to tow or trailer their vehicle to this
site. We have a staging area where EVs can be left over-night, and charging
both at the adjacent Sun Valley Mall (Avcon and LPI) and through at least
one member's house close to the Rally site.
See website for contact information if you need to make charging or other
arrangements. This year we hope to gather more member's EVs than last year,
and have an enjoyable day talking to everyone about how they can beat the
high price of gasoline!
Freeway and public transportation directions listed on website. Also have
map of the DVC campus and the Rally route. Hope to have Sparrows and
RAV4-EVs and conversions there. Even plan to have a wonderfully painted
CitiCar for SUV owners to see and ride in. Encourage any and all EVs
(electric vehicles), from e-scooters and e-bikes, to conversions and more.
http://www.geocities.com/ebeaa
**********END OF MEETING ANNOUNCEMENT************
_______________________________________________
RAV4-EV mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
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Ryan wrote:
> Mark, where did you get your Iota?
Mine was rebranded as a "Duracomm DPS-55",
Here's a link, about 3/4 down the page:
http://www.duracomm.com/duracommdirectory.htm
I bought it from Tessco, a commmunications equipment supplier
(I do other than EV business with them already).:
http://www.tessco.com/products/displaySkus.do?groupId=080&subgroupId=30
I picked the DPS-55 since it was the best value per amp, to go to the
75A model is a big jump in price.
Mark Brueggemann
Albuquerque, NM
S-10 EV
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I want to un-SUV an SUV. How hard/expensive would it be to convert a
Nissan Murano to Electric? Wanna Help?
I don't have time to do it myself but I'll supply a brand new car, auto
bay , PR, Media coverage and MAYBE some sponsors... And I'll PAY YOU!
Scott
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Lee Hart wrote:
> Yes, but I think he means the lathe has an inverter drive to provide
variable speed control instead of a gearbox with dozens of speeds. I too
have an Aerovironment inverter that describes wiring the motor for
120vac or 240vac depending on whether you want to optimize torque or
speed.
Look at it this way. An induction motor is basically a transformer. The
stator is the primary, and the rotor is the secondary. The main
difference is that power is taken from the secondary mechanically, not
electrically.
I understand the theory, it is like having 110VAC/220VAC switchable
primary of a transformer. Switch to 120V input and you don't need
high voltage in. Switch to 220 input, and you don;t need high(er)
current source in. It makes sense to keep one OR the other, so
you don't pay for having high voltage option AND high current option.
If the inverter is powered from a 300vdc supply, it can deliver anything
...
The bottom line is that if you try to make your controller do *all* of
the voltage/current convervsion so you can use a fixed-winding motor,
then the controller has to deal with a very large range of voltages and
currents. Its cost goes up and its efficiency goes down.
I didn't realize Siemens, MES and BRUSA are all so ignorant
for years not to understand it.
If you allow
series/parallel changes in the motor windings (which adds cost to the
motor), you can reduce the voltage/current operating range of your
controller, saving cost and improving efficiency.
Exactly *where* the optimal tradeoff is between motor and controller
complexity is the question that the engineers have to face. There are
examples like the "chorus" motor that has huge numbers of windings,
driven in series/parallel by dozens of very simple square-wave
inverters. They opted to maximize motor complexity but simplify
inverters as much as possible.
I can speak for the hardware I dealt with. Inverter software
is loaded with motor parameters such as stator inductance.
Even inductance of the cables from the inverter to the motor
is taken into account - it is well matched and fine tuned
system. In order to switch windings the software needs to
instantly apply new settings. If you let the system to pick
"optimal" configuration on the fly, software control becomes
even more complex, and the software cost is largest part of the
inverter cost. Also, usually contactors are used for switching,
meaning you will hear clicking back and forth similar to the
automatic transmission hunting for the right gear on incline.
This means extra hardware.
I'm not saying it is not technically possible to achieve,
in fact it is trivial if the motor design brings all the
windings (halves) out. For very specific applications where
fraction of second gain is a top priority, like drag racing,
it may worth the trouble.
For normal driving if benefits would outweigh complexity
and cost increase, I think we would see it implemented.
I don't see it so far.
No brushes please, even for the slip rings.
Why not? Every motor in a car already has brushes or slip rings. When
was the last time any of them were ever replaced in the life of a car?
When car electric motors or alternators fail, it isn't because the
brushes wore out!
You can apply this statement to DC motors - how often
brushes wear out first? Yet, this is the least reliable part
of any DC motor. Granted, commutator is more fragile than
solid slip rings, but in general if you can avoid friction of
any moving part against stationary part, it worth taking advantage
of it. No dragging force, no squeaking sounds. Clean solution -
to deliver energy through magnetic fields.
Again, doesn't *have* to be that way. See it as my personal
preference. I can see why OEM EV AC drives are not using it.
This debate will be as fruitless as debate what is better,
gas ICE or diesel. I think we can let the thread die, should we?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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