EV Digest 3480
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Cheney's anti EV and solar statement.
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: "Sucking Amps" tomorrow night on Discovery
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) re: Motorcycle transmission
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: series parallel AC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motorcycle transmission
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Min clearances
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Converting a Nissan Murano
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN(Rural N.C. kids take electric car prize)
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Min clearances, Family car and the TEVan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: "Sucking Amps" tomorrow night on Discovery
by Matthew Muelver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: AC inverter question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVLN(Evercel disappointing nickel-zinc batt losses)
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) OT Re: AC inverter question
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: AC inverter Question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) re: "sucking amps"
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT Re: AC inverter question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: AC inverter Question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: "Sucking Amps" tomorrow night on Discovery
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: EVLN(Rural N.C. kids take electric car prize)
by "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Min clearances
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Min clearances, Family car and the TEVan
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Converting a Nissan Murano
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Converting a Nissan Murano
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: "Sucking Amps" tomorrow night on Discovery
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Converting a Nissan Murano
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Converting a Nissan Murano
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: AVCON interface
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Converting a Nissan Murano
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Lawn mower
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence:
He said it. I wrote it down at the time.
/Bob S.
On Wednesday, April 21, 2004, at 09:33 AM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
"If you're one of those people who puts solar panels on your house or
drives
a battery powered car, you might as well vote for Gore"
-- Dick Cheney Oct 3, 2000
If he really said this he is more evil than I thought. Lawrence
Rhodes..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Is there a web broadcast? Lawrence Rhodes........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 3:41 PM
> Subject: "Sucking Amps" tomorrow night on Discovery
>
>
> > Hi All, If you tune in tomorrow night at 10 PM and like the show please
> send
> > feedback to the following address:
> > http://extweb.discovery.com/viewerrelations You support is much
> appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roderick
> > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So far as I have found the two that I know of so far
that are easy to use as an electric conversion is the
BMW. It uses a dry clutch much like a car. And the
Harley Davidson. It has a separate transmission with
the clutch attached and can be driven by a belt. This
it probably the simplest to use and is beefy enough
for any motor you can put on it. Let me know if
anybody knows of other bikes that have tranny's that
would work.
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> The lathe is a Victor brand, 25 years Old (that I can vouch for),
> no inverter. It is a 2-speed 3-phase motor. A large contactor
> changes the pole count.
Thanks for the details. It may have had two sets of windings (one for
each speed), or used "consequent poles" in which you reverse the phase
of half of the existing windings, and have a second set of poles with no
windings on them. These are two very common methods to get different
speeds from an AC motor running on a fixed frequency.
> On an AC motor at fixed freq, changing pole count changes rpm AND
> torque... Admittedly only one pole count winding in use at a time.
No; consequent pole motors use all the windings all the time.
> "in EVs, AC has a cheaper motor but the controller costs more..."
> Haven't seen a cheaper than DC inverter motor yet!
The AC motor is cheaper than a DC motor if both are manufactured in the
same volumes. But AC inverter-grade traction motors are built in *lower*
volumes than DC motors -- thus the AC motors used in the auto company
EVs are more expensive than DC traction motors.
But as Rod Hower pointed out, there are getting to be some high volume
applications for AC traction motors (like fork lifts). That is going to
shift the balance in favor of AC.
> Series parallel could work at inverter duty to eliminate need for
> gearbox or give us some bottem end guts but the controller would
> have to have curves for both sets of motor characteristics, even
> more complicated than they already are.
Yes, but as software engineers like to point out, it's only a "little"
more complicated. And computer hardware and software is "free".
> PS: There is no arcing on slip rings, and very little wear.
> I haven't seen alternator slip ring brushes fail except when
> broken in dissasembly/assembly.
Yes. Note that almost all really large AC motors have slip rings. We can
deal with 1 KW of loss in the rotor of a car-sized AC motor, but it
becomes 10's of KW in a motor large enough for a train or other large
equipment. They *have* to use slip rings to get that power out of the
motor, or it would burn up! Plus, there are lots of things you can do
with slip power.
> I think the drag racing trick for AC will be to replace the rotor
> of the siemans motor with a wound rotor so you can pull the excess
> power at high slip out of the rotor via slip rings and then reprogram
> the controller to allow 10 or 20 x starting torque.
Tricks like series/parallel switching are the things you do to squeeze a
little more performance out of a design. The auto company EVs didn't do
it, because they are new at the game, and don't know any better, and
don't (yet) need to squeeze more out of them. But all the big, long-time
AC traction motor drives use these tricks. Their designers have already
had decades to think about it, experiment, and work out the details.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a harley FX 4 speed tranny set up with andrews backcut gears spoof
case I used it in the early Current Eliminator.It has less than 6 runs on it and
includes motor mount bracket. Off list Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
Or make it easy on yourself and give up your back seat.
Can't do. Requirement #1 of this thing is to be able to take the family.
A man after my own heart! I don't have to go too far, but I've got to
take the kids. If my Prizm hatchback wasn't leaking, it would be my
first choice for a conversion.
I'm glad you haven't given up on it.
I was looking at a Rabbit on the EVDL photo archive; he had batteries
under the rear seat, but he had customized the seat cushions so they
weren't so deep, leaving more room for the batteries.
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I want to un-SUV an SUV. How hard/expensive would it be to convert a
Nissan Murano to Electric? Wanna Help?
I don't have time to do it myself but I'll supply a brand new car, auto
bay , PR, Media coverage and MAYBE some sponsors... And I'll PAY YOU!
Scott
I doubt it's going to be very impressive when its finished, unless
you've got a load of money for something impressive like lithium
batteries. But where are you? pacbell.net would imply California.
Judebert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This brings back good memories.
Ryan and Harold stopping by the house in NC back in
1995? to get better EV controls from GE (I worked for
GE from 1993-1996).
These guys have been promoting the EV cause via the
most important audience, the future engineers from
high schools.
Ryan, Harold and Lee Hart have the right idea, teach
them young about the benifits of alternate energy
vehicles. These are the future engineers that will
make this possible.
I've seen many students persue jobs in the
EV/alternative fuel industry because of their efforts.
Thanks to these EV pioneers in inspiring the next
generation.
Rod
--- Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVLN(Rural N.C. kids take electric car prize)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public
> EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for
> reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
>
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/entertainment/performing_arts/8459153.htm?1c
> Posted on Sun, Apr. 18, 2004 Rural N.C. kids take
> electric car
> prize BARBARA BAMBERGER SCOTT Special to the
> Observer ELECTRIC
> DREAMS By Caroline Kettlewell. Carroll and Graf.
> 290 pages. $24
>
> High school kids from rural eastern North Carolina,
> cars,
> competition, and the Richmond International Raceway
> -- a surefire
> mix for a winner of a book with an (almost)
> guaranteed happy ending.
> Caroline Kettlewell got a grip on this story while
> it was still hot,
> and keeps us holding our breath until the checkered
> flag on the
> last, strangely quiet, lap.
>
> Strangely quiet because the cars were electric, and
> the challenge
> for these high school kids and their dynamic duo of
> instructors was
> to build an EV (electric vehicle) that would pack
> enough juice to
> beat out the competitors -- not only on the track,
> but in the arena
> of design, efficiency, and oral presentation.
>
> Our N.C. kids (from Northampton County) dubbed their
> car "The
> Shocker." And shock it did.
>
> It shocked the competition, who reckoned Northampton
> High
> School-East was all about "hay bales and tractors."
> It shocked the
> teen team, who had signed on in good but often
> wavering faith, not
> at all sure that kids like themselves, from a rural
> backwater, could
> win anything.
>
> And, though they might not admit it, it was a shock
> to Eric Ryan,
> the transplanted Californian who'd come to
> Northampton County as
> part of the Teach for America program, and his
> unlikely
> comrade-in-arms, Harold Miller, a good ol' boy auto
> mechanics
> teacher with attitude.
>
> With fewer resources and a smaller reservoir of hope
> than the kids
> from other schools, the team at Northampton-East had
> the benefit of
> hands-on instruction and rare teaching zeal, plus a
> dash of NASCAR.
> They knew what racing was about, though sometimes it
> was hard to
> convince them that The Shocker was ever going
> anywhere.
>
> Kettlewell never leaves us out of the action: "If
> you were a student
> electric vehicle team working in the shop at
> Northampton High
> School-East and you wanted to establish the starting
> weight of your
> 1985 twice-totaled Ford Escort Hatchback before
> taking the car
> apart, you could take it just down the road about a
> half-mile from
> the school to the peanut scales."
>
> When Katrina, a college-prep student who joined the
> team to fill a
> hole in her schedule, wins the range test by driving
> The Shocker for
> a full 90 minutes around the D-shaped Richmond track
> minus her water
> bottle and nearly delirious from dehydration, we're
> with her every
> lap.
>
> Everyone who got behind The Shocker's wheel was
> surprised to find
> that it was scarcely audible and incredibly fast.
> You have to stop
> thinking "golf cart," Ryan and Miller kept
> emphasizing. Surfer Ryan
> overcame his mellow streak in his determination to
> get his team of
> raw kids to the final showdown. Miller showed hidden
> depths of savvy
> and suave that got him into conversations with the
> people behind the
> scenes who had the scoop.
>
> One early piece of advice Miller gleaned was to have
> the car ready a
> month early so there'd be plenty of time to work out
> the glitches.
> And there would be, someone else told him sagely,
> plenty of
> glitches.
>
> The Northampton-East EV team has become NEAT
> (Northampton Electric
> Auto Team) with a Web site listing their many
> victories. Ryan stayed
> on in rural North Carolina long after his Teach for
> America contract
> expired, and is still involved in EV development.
> Miller, who always
> thought there had to be something more efficient
> than the
> gas-guzzling internal combustion engine, stayed
> involved in the EV
> Challenge after retirement, offering help for
> schools willing to
> develop and test alternative vehicles.
>
> They're still wondering "why a bunch of high-school
> kids can manage
> what the big car companies insist can't be done."
>
> MEET THE AUTHOR Caroline Kettlewell will sign copies
> of "Electric
> Dreams" at 2 p.m., Saturday, at Borders -
> Morrocroft, 3900 Colony
> Road. Scott is a writer in Dobson.
> -
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for
> 25�
> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have a full size conversion van, I bought it back
in 1994 because my family gave me a huge discount :-)
It sits in the driveway 90% of the time because we use
the electric TEVan for most around town commuting.
The TEVan battery pack hangs kind of low, I avoid
all road kill for this reason, I don't need dead
animals on the pack (and it has happened several
times, thinking I had the road clearance of the other
cars that avoided this obstruction).
Rod
--- Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> >>> Or make it easy on yourself and give up your
> back seat.
> >>
> >
> > Can't do. Requirement #1 of this thing is to be
> able to take the family.
> >
> A man after my own heart! I don't have to go too
> far, but I've got to
> take the kids. If my Prizm hatchback wasn't
> leaking, it would be my
> first choice for a conversion.
>
> I'm glad you haven't given up on it.
>
> I was looking at a Rabbit on the EVDL photo archive;
> he had batteries
> under the rear seat, but he had customized the seat
> cushions so they
> weren't so deep, leaving more room for the
> batteries.
>
> Jude
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 21, 2004, at 6:34 PM, Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
Is anyone planning to grab this in mpeg format? I'll be happy to host
it for
the list, but I have no cable and hence can't see it myself. ;-(
S.
I've got my DVR (EyeTV on my PowerMac) set to record it. I can rip it
to a small .mp4 and send it to someone, but I don't have the web space
to host it.
Later,
Matt Muelver
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Honda Insight '01 Monte Carlo Blue
Honda CR-V '98 Jet Black
Apple Dual 1GHz PowerMac G4
Apple iBook 12.1" 800MHz
Kyocera 7135 Smartphone on Verizon
Custom Audio Adapters! Use standard stereo headphones on your 7135!
<http://www.geocities.com/nokmout/adapter.html>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> Since I design AC inverters I should know the answer,
> but I never tried this.
> What would happen if I connected 2 output phases of
> a 3 phase AC induction control to a 2 phase AC
> induction motor? Would this work? If not could
> I put an inductor on the 3rd phase output?.
Physically, the inverter for a 2-phase motor is the same as for a
3-phase motor. However, one of the phase leads is the common, and the
other two are the two phase voltges, with a 90 degree phase difference
between them.
If you blindly connect a 2-phase motor to a 3-phase source, it works but
at lower efficiency. Likewise, you can run a 3-phase motor from a
2-phase source at lower efficiency.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In China our fixed overhead has been substantially reduced and we run
our production
line only when there is appropriate demand.
Didn't we already have reports that the line in China had been
completely shut down and that these batteries were officially
unavailable from this point forward?
Our largest customer, Oxygen SpA, remains committed to our products
and is projecting substantial orders over the next several months.
Does this mean that Oxygen is projecting orders for Evercel, or does
this just mean that Oxygen has projected substantial scooter orders and
Evercel is trying to spin that into possible orders for Evercel
battteries? I think this might be intentionally vague. Does Evercel's
delisting mean that they are now free to mislead their shareholders
without legal consequence? This is not a charge, just a question. I am
unfamiliar with SEC rules and corporate law. Didn't Oxygen state that
they have another supplier for NiZn cells with 20 or 30% better
performance? Didn't Oxygen also state that they didn't expect to be
getting any more product from Evercel?
We intend to supply batteries for these orders if economically
appropriate.
This statement sure sounds sounds fishy. Either you have the orders or
you don't. Either you have the ability to fill these orders or you
don't. Either the line in China is operational or it isn't. All this
conditional language from Evercel sure looks like nothing but double
talk and tap dancing to try to soften the blow to their shareholders.
I wish any advanced battery technology company success, but if the party
is over, shouldn't they abandon any pretext of future production and
focus on their entirely new and totally unrelated Zipcar investment?
Is there anyone inside Evercel, Oxygen, or their partners with any more
information on the assertions made in this letter to investors?
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This was an OT question since my hot tub on the
deck uses a 230Vac single phase motor and keeps
tripping the GFI.
I have a 120VAC input, 230Vac 3 phase AC inverter
in the garage that runs my grinder. I was considering
running 2 phases to the hot tub pump from this
inverter just to see if it still worked.
Another OT,
I always wondered if this inverter could produce
120Vac single phase from two outputs if I programmed
it for 60Hz 120Vac 3 phase output?
Rod
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rod Hower wrote:
> >
> > Since I design AC inverters I should know the
> answer,
> > but I never tried this.
> > What would happen if I connected 2 output phases
> of
> > a 3 phase AC induction control to a 2 phase AC
> > induction motor? Would this work? If not could
> > I put an inductor on the 3rd phase output?.
>
> Physically, the inverter for a 2-phase motor is the
> same as for a
> 3-phase motor. However, one of the phase leads is
> the common, and the
> other two are the two phase voltges, with a 90
> degree phase difference
> between them.
>
> If you blindly connect a 2-phase motor to a 3-phase
> source, it works but
> at lower efficiency. Likewise, you can run a 3-phase
> motor from a
> 2-phase source at lower efficiency.
> --
> "Never doubt that a small group of committed people
> can change the
> world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"
> -- Margaret Meade
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The motor would turn fine is my quess.
and I can't see the inverter minding if there is no load on one leg,
unless it is using that leg to measure bemf or current in the motor
windings.
The problem I see is that, motors starting under load are 3 phase, call
them capacitor start or starter windings they are there to get the thing
rotating from a stop. 2 phase sets up a magnetic field that appears to
oscilate to the stationary rotor. 3 phase set up a field that appears
to rotate.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am planning on having my friend caputre it with his dvd recorder, then
recompress to divx or xvid. if he gets it, we just have to find a
place to put it. Is it ok for us to do that? no infringement?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> This was an OT question since my hot tub on the
> deck uses a 230Vac single phase motor and keeps
> tripping the GFI.
> I have a 120VAC input, 230Vac 3 phase AC inverter
> in the garage that runs my grinder. I was considering
> running 2 phases to the hot tub pump from this
> inverter just to see if it still worked.
> Another OT,
> I always wondered if this inverter could produce
> 120Vac single phase from two outputs if I programmed
> it for 60Hz 120Vac 3 phase output?
It could; but it may also be that the inverter designers "protected" you
from such things, and wrote the software so it will shut down if it
loses one phase, or if the load current isn't balanced in all 3 phases.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> The motor would turn fine is my quess.
> and I can't see the inverter minding if there is no load on one leg,
> unless it is using that leg to measure bemf or current in the motor
> windings.
>
> The problem I see is that, motors starting under load are 3 phase, call
> them capacitor start or starter windings they are there to get the thing
> rotating from a stop. 2 phase sets up a magnetic field that appears to
> oscilate to the stationary rotor. 3 phase set up a field that appears
> to rotate.
No; a 2-phase motor also creates a smoothly rotating fixed-amplitude
field.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I to hope to have a digital copy, and a taped copy for backup.
I'll post it as soon as I have it ready, maybe on friday.
I'll host your small .mp4 version aswell, send it over.
(You'll probably have it ready before me)
L8r
Ryan
Matthew Muelver wrote:
On Apr 21, 2004, at 6:34 PM, Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
Is anyone planning to grab this in mpeg format? I'll be happy to host
it for
the list, but I have no cable and hence can't see it myself. ;-(
S.
I've got my DVR (EyeTV on my PowerMac) set to record it. I can rip it
to a small .mp4 and send it to someone, but I don't have the web space
to host it.
Later,
Matt Muelver
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Honda Insight '01 Monte Carlo Blue
Honda CR-V '98 Jet Black
Apple Dual 1GHz PowerMac G4
Apple iBook 12.1" 800MHz
Kyocera 7135 Smartphone on Verizon
Custom Audio Adapters! Use standard stereo headphones on your 7135!
<http://www.geocities.com/nokmout/adapter.html>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Warning - Shameless Plug ---
Early on I was skeptical of Kettlewell's "Electric Dreams" because of
the marketing language, but the book really is good. I think it will
sway most "normal" readers into becoming "ampheads" like us.
The author draws readers into the story through humor and wit, along the
way educating the reader with EV info. This isn't the book for you if
you love purely technical discussions, but if you want to see electric
vehicle technology from a new perspective in an interesting scenario--
and you like to root for the underdogs-- you might want to add this to
your collection.
If anyone is curious and would like to obtain a copy, I have a few left
in stock...
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/store/shop/item.asp?itemid=25
Thanks for your support,
-Dave Stensland, Owner
Megawatt Motorworks, LLC
Discover the Potential
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce EVangel Parmenter
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 5:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EVLN(Rural N.C. kids take electric car prize)
EVLN(Rural N.C. kids take electric car prize)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/entertainment/performing_arts/8459
153.htm?1c
Posted on Sun, Apr. 18, 2004 Rural N.C. kids take electric car
prize BARBARA BAMBERGER SCOTT Special to the Observer ELECTRIC
DREAMS By Caroline Kettlewell. Carroll and Graf. 290 pages. $24
High school kids from rural eastern North Carolina, cars,
competition, and the Richmond International Raceway -- a surefire
mix for a winner of a book with an (almost) guaranteed happy ending.
Caroline Kettlewell got a grip on this story while it was still hot,
and keeps us holding our breath until the checkered flag on the
last, strangely quiet, lap.
Strangely quiet because the cars were electric, and the challenge
for these high school kids and their dynamic duo of instructors was
to build an EV (electric vehicle) that would pack enough juice to
beat out the competitors -- not only on the track, but in the arena
of design, efficiency, and oral presentation.
Our N.C. kids (from Northampton County) dubbed their car "The
Shocker." And shock it did.
It shocked the competition, who reckoned Northampton High
School-East was all about "hay bales and tractors." It shocked the
teen team, who had signed on in good but often wavering faith, not
at all sure that kids like themselves, from a rural backwater, could
win anything.
And, though they might not admit it, it was a shock to Eric Ryan,
the transplanted Californian who'd come to Northampton County as
part of the Teach for America program, and his unlikely
comrade-in-arms, Harold Miller, a good ol' boy auto mechanics
teacher with attitude.
With fewer resources and a smaller reservoir of hope than the kids
from other schools, the team at Northampton-East had the benefit of
hands-on instruction and rare teaching zeal, plus a dash of NASCAR.
They knew what racing was about, though sometimes it was hard to
convince them that The Shocker was ever going anywhere.
Kettlewell never leaves us out of the action: "If you were a student
electric vehicle team working in the shop at Northampton High
School-East and you wanted to establish the starting weight of your
1985 twice-totaled Ford Escort Hatchback before taking the car
apart, you could take it just down the road about a half-mile from
the school to the peanut scales."
When Katrina, a college-prep student who joined the team to fill a
hole in her schedule, wins the range test by driving The Shocker for
a full 90 minutes around the D-shaped Richmond track minus her water
bottle and nearly delirious from dehydration, we're with her every
lap.
Everyone who got behind The Shocker's wheel was surprised to find
that it was scarcely audible and incredibly fast. You have to stop
thinking "golf cart," Ryan and Miller kept emphasizing. Surfer Ryan
overcame his mellow streak in his determination to get his team of
raw kids to the final showdown. Miller showed hidden depths of savvy
and suave that got him into conversations with the people behind the
scenes who had the scoop.
One early piece of advice Miller gleaned was to have the car ready a
month early so there'd be plenty of time to work out the glitches.
And there would be, someone else told him sagely, plenty of
glitches.
The Northampton-East EV team has become NEAT (Northampton Electric
Auto Team) with a Web site listing their many victories. Ryan stayed
on in rural North Carolina long after his Teach for America contract
expired, and is still involved in EV development. Miller, who always
thought there had to be something more efficient than the
gas-guzzling internal combustion engine, stayed involved in the EV
Challenge after retirement, offering help for schools willing to
develop and test alternative vehicles.
They're still wondering "why a bunch of high-school kids can manage
what the big car companies insist can't be done."
MEET THE AUTHOR Caroline Kettlewell will sign copies of "Electric
Dreams" at 2 p.m., Saturday, at Borders - Morrocroft, 3900 Colony
Road. Scott is a writer in Dobson.
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm glad you haven't given up on it.
No, I've had a good pout and cry, and will be replacing the pack.
The more I look at my telemetry logs the more I am sure that going to
the IUI charge algorythm blew the pack. It's ok; this was a learning
experience. But trying to run at pack at an average of 15 vpb at 10 amp
charge rate is simple suicide. Even with regulators, it's suicide.
I'm going to reprogram the MC to go back to it's factory setting. I have
it somewhere, but I think it was CV to 350 volts, then CC to 375 volts
with a charge limit current of 1 amp or so. That way the pack can bulk
up quickly, but when the pack hits 14 vpb (and some are at 15) the
current is dropped way way back.
The batteries are bulged as well. It was not undercharged....
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Converting the Dodge Caravan would be an option, except for the fact
that it is the *least* reliable car we have. And that includes a 68
Porche 911L and a 74 914.
Oddly enough the motor and transmission are the only reliable parts. :-)
CHris
Rod Hower wrote:
We have a full size conversion van, I bought it back
in 1994 because my family gave me a huge discount :-)
It sits in the driveway 90% of the time because we use
the electric TEVan for most around town commuting.
The TEVan battery pack hangs kind of low, I avoid
all road kill for this reason, I don't need dead
animals on the pack (and it has happened several
times, thinking I had the road clearance of the other
cars that avoided this obstruction).
Rod
--- Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Christopher Zach wrote:
Or make it easy on yourself and give up your
back seat.
Can't do. Requirement #1 of this thing is to be
able to take the family.
A man after my own heart! I don't have to go too
far, but I've got to
take the kids. If my Prizm hatchback wasn't
leaking, it would be my
first choice for a conversion.
I'm glad you haven't given up on it.
I was looking at a Rabbit on the EVDL photo archive;
he had batteries
under the rear seat, but he had customized the seat
cushions so they
weren't so deep, leaving more room for the
batteries.
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I want to un-SUV an SUV. How hard/expensive would it be to convert a
> Nissan Murano to Electric? Wanna Help?
It's such a new vehicle that I don't think anyone has tried to convert
one yet. So, it will be a bit of an adventure! Most of the work will be
routine, and just like any other EV conversion. But there are bound to
be some new tricks that will have to be figured out and worked around.
I looked up some specs on the Murano on the web. It says:
- 3828 lbs curb weight
- 4858 lbs GVWR (1030 lbs payload)
- 36 cu.ft. cargo space (86 cu.ft. with rear seat folded)
- 3.5L V6 engine
- continuously variable transmission
- 5.17:1 differential ratio
As a general rule, you want about 1/3 the resulting vehicle's weight to
be batteries. Let's say you can save 500 lbs by removing the engine and
all its associated parts (gas tank, radiator, exhaust system, etc.).
This increases payload to 1530 lbs, for 1530/4858 = 32% batteries
maximum. So, it is possible to make this into an EV with something like
a 40-50 mile range with lead-acid batteries.
But that would be the proverbial "lead sled" -- a vehicle with all its
payload capacity taken up by batteries. So let's assume 1000 lbs of
batteries as a reasonable maximum. 1000/4858 = 20% batteries. That only
gives you a range of 20-30 miles. Is that enough?
If not, you have to use a more exotic battery (nicad, nimh, lithium
ion), or put the vehicle on a serious weight reduction diet.
So, a lot hinges on what your performance goals are, and how much time
and money you have to put into achieving them.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep. Calif. I might be able to get some things donated.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jude Anthony
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 6:17 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Converting a Nissan Murano
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I want to un-SUV an SUV. How hard/expensive would it be to convert a
>Nissan Murano to Electric? Wanna Help?
>
>
>I don't have time to do it myself but I'll supply a brand new car, auto
>bay , PR, Media coverage and MAYBE some sponsors... And I'll PAY YOU!
>
>Scott
>
>
>
>
I doubt it's going to be very impressive when its finished, unless
you've got a load of money for something impressive like lithium
batteries. But where are you? pacbell.net would imply California.
Judebert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matthew Muelver wrote:
I've got my DVR (EyeTV on my PowerMac) set to record it. I can rip it
to a small .mp4 and send it to someone, but I don't have the web space
to host it.
Later,
Matt Muelver
I can host it too; a few hundred megs are no prpblem.
MPEG2 is more common format, but do whatever you can.
You can burn it onto a CD and mail to me for availability
to all of us. Main thing for now is to capture it,
preferrably digitally. Will think about hosting later.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I can get a lot of gear donated. I will put 5-7k into
transforming it. I want as much range as humanly possible. I will tear
out the back seats, the spare tire, and all weight reduction I can
undertake. I will bore holes where I can and cut metal and put the
lightest weight wheels on I can find.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Converting a Nissan Murano
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I want to un-SUV an SUV. How hard/expensive would it be to convert a
> Nissan Murano to Electric? Wanna Help?
It's such a new vehicle that I don't think anyone has tried to convert
one yet. So, it will be a bit of an adventure! Most of the work will be
routine, and just like any other EV conversion. But there are bound to
be some new tricks that will have to be figured out and worked around.
I looked up some specs on the Murano on the web. It says:
- 3828 lbs curb weight
- 4858 lbs GVWR (1030 lbs payload)
- 36 cu.ft. cargo space (86 cu.ft. with rear seat folded)
- 3.5L V6 engine
- continuously variable transmission
- 5.17:1 differential ratio
As a general rule, you want about 1/3 the resulting vehicle's weight to
be batteries. Let's say you can save 500 lbs by removing the engine and
all its associated parts (gas tank, radiator, exhaust system, etc.).
This increases payload to 1530 lbs, for 1530/4858 = 32% batteries
maximum. So, it is possible to make this into an EV with something like
a 40-50 mile range with lead-acid batteries.
But that would be the proverbial "lead sled" -- a vehicle with all its
payload capacity taken up by batteries. So let's assume 1000 lbs of
batteries as a reasonable maximum. 1000/4858 = 20% batteries. That only
gives you a range of 20-30 miles. Is that enough?
If not, you have to use a more exotic battery (nicad, nimh, lithium
ion), or put the vehicle on a serious weight reduction diet.
So, a lot hinges on what your performance goals are, and how much time
and money you have to put into achieving them.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure, bring it and the pile of cash to Phx. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 1:03 PM
Subject: Converting a Nissan Murano
> I want to un-SUV an SUV. How hard/expensive would it be to convert a
> Nissan Murano to Electric? Wanna Help?
>
>
> I don't have time to do it myself but I'll supply a brand new car, auto
> bay , PR, Media coverage and MAYBE some sponsors... And I'll PAY YOU!
>
> Scott
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can't seem to find where these files are on the EAA
site. So, I posted them on my website.
http://movingcam.com/EV/
Ed Ang
--- Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is an extremely old listing.
> 20 Sep 2001
>
> Why not just go to the EAA website and look at the
> current pages of
> information.
> It's unrealistic to expect a website to remain
> static for almost 3 years.
>
> -Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chuck Hursch
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 12:35 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: AVCON interface
>
>
> The links for the two pdf files in this archive
> appear to be
> broken. Does anyone know where they have gone?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 7:54 AM
> Subject: Re: AVCON interface
>
>
> > Try this
> >
>
http://solstice.crest.org/discussion/ev/200109/msg00995.html
> >
> > I have installed AVCON inlet in both of my EVs.
> >
> > Ed Ang
> >
> > --- Scott Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > Is anyone able to point me to some information
> on
> > > how to attach an AVCON receptacle to my charger?
> > >
> > > I've got a US Electricar S10, and would like to
> be
> > > able to plug it into public charging spots. It
> came
> > > with an AVCON receptacle in the bed box, but it
> was
> > > not attached.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Scott
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for
> 25�
> > http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Scott , I like the last part , I helped somebody with at ford exploder, not
a body I would have picked , but he liked the big suv feel , It had about a
30 mile range with 26 excides , are you in Florida/?
hope you keep us posted as it goes ,
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:03 PM
Subject: Converting a Nissan Murano
> I want to un-SUV an SUV. How hard/expensive would it be to convert a
> Nissan Murano to Electric? Wanna Help?
>
>
> I don't have time to do it myself but I'll supply a brand new car, auto
> bay , PR, Media coverage and MAYBE some sponsors... And I'll PAY YOU!
>
> Scott
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There were some smaller models that might fit your needs.
Elec Trak E8M or Wheelhorse A-60.
Check out the web site for pictures, sizes, etc.
http://www.elec-trak.org/
Dennis
Elsberry, MO
-----Original Message-----
From: R. D. Childers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 10:24 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Lawn mower
My 6hp push mower is rusting out. I want to replace it with an electric.
Has any one heard of a walk behind electric mower (SELF PROPELED because of
weight) The comercial models I have seen are so UNDER powered. I would
even build one if there were plans.
I have seen a few of the Electric lawn tractors but the size of my yard
would not be a good match for some thing that large. (turning radius)
R. D. Childers
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
512-826-1457
http://www.austinev.org/
--- End Message ---
