EV Digest 3483
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) What Time is it? (Time to Suck Amps!!)
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: to night on Discovery Time Zones
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Electric motorcycles
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What Time is it? (Time to Suck Amps!!)
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Electric motorcycles
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: series parallel AC
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: to night on Discovery Time Zones
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: to night on Discovery Time Zones
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric motorcycles
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: tonight on Discovery Time Zones
by "Nathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV panels
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Electric motorcycles
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battricide was(Min clearances)
by Seth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: tonight on Discovery Time Zones
by "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Long range at Speed, RE: Electric motorcycles
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Toys on the grass in Port Townsend 4/18/04
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battricide was(Min clearances)
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV panels
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "sucking amps"
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV panels
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Electric motorcycles
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Sucking amps thoughts
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Sucking Amps on Discovery Channel
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) GP show, Re: "sucking amps"
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Buying questions: Soleq EV
by Jerry McIntire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Sucking Amps
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: GP show, Re: "sucking amps"
by "bobrice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Since I am a real dummy when it comes to converting timezones I ran across a
site that might help others that are trying to view Rich Rudman, Father
Time, etc on the Sucking Amps TV network. Oh and Rod Wilde too (JK Rod :-)).
Now don't blame me if you don't get it right. I did and I didn't even have
to use my fingers (anymore). http://www.timezoneconverter.com/index.shtml
PS, I just realized that here in AZ we are so special we have our OWN
timezone. Go figure!! DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 11:15 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> This can't be right. 10PM pacific would be 12PM Central.
Central (where I used to live) has the feed from the East coast. So
it's 10PM Eastern, 9PM Central. CA (where I now live) has the feed from
Discover Pacific (West coast) so it's shown at the "same scheduled
time" (10PM) as in Eastern (just 3 hours later in real life - or 10PM
Pacific).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Jarrett wrote:
> Every time that EM thread comes around all the people "in the
> know" say that it's just not possible to build an EM with
> reasonable performance (i.e. capable of 55 or so) and good
> range (round trip range of more than 40 miles).
In my opinion, 55 mph is not adequate performance for an EM. It's OK
for what I'd call a city bike, one that's used for around town, maybe on
busy streets where the speeds might reach 50 mph. That's not what I
consider a motorcycle.
Also, speed is not performance. Much of what keeps you healthy on a
motorcycle is power. When you whack the throttle open you squirt from a
danger area to your escape. Most car drivers have no idea what kind of
acceleration is available with a motorcycle, or how important it is for
your safety.
If you limit yourself to urban use, range becomes much easier to get.
> I know that part of this is aerodynamics and the fact that
> when you get over about 30mph you spend more energy pushing
> the wind out of the way than actually moving the motorcycle.
Aerodynamics are your biggest loss on a motorcycle. A circular
cross-section is one of the worst for air resistance. A motorcycle has
dozens of circular cross-section parts - frame tubes, forks, tires,
handlebars, the rider's legs, arms, torso, helmet, etc.
> Someone once said that a custom faring could cut these losses
> down dramatically. What I got to wondering is exactly how
> hard is it to make a custom faring. Say I have just built a
> simple street bike using a golf cart or e-tek motor and a
> transmission of some kind.
>
> Further stipulate that I have a max speed of say 55 or 60 mph
> and a range of 25 miles. How much difference would a custom
> faring make and what would I have to do to make one?
Don't know, someone will have to try it. What do you mean by custom
fairing? Something like a sport bike? Those won't get you much.
Something more like a Land Speed Record fairing? It's important to
understand that a really slippery fairing can be really inconvenient.
Does it need doors to allow you to get on the bike? Or put your feet
down?
Another big issue is side gusts. If it's really slippery it will look
like a sail from the side. That can give you handling ranging from
spooky to dangerous.
> Are there people on list who know how to do this?
Building one isn't particularly difficult, but can take some time.
Basic mold and fiberglass techniques will work. The hard part is
figuring out what you want to do. And then doing it over again when you
(inevitably) find what doesn't work.
I believe Lawrence Rhodes has a an LSR-type fairing for a ~250cc size
motorcycle (or a mold?). Lawrence, any results?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 13:17 -0700, David Chapman wrote:
> Since I am a real dummy when it comes to converting timezones I ran across a
> site that might help others that are trying to view Rich Rudman, Father
> Time, etc on the Sucking Amps TV network. Oh and Rod Wilde too (JK Rod :-)).
> Now don't blame me if you don't get it right. I did and I didn't even have
> to use my fingers (anymore). http://www.timezoneconverter.com/index.shtml
>
> PS, I just realized that here in AZ we are so special we have our OWN
> timezone. Go figure!! DC.
To not have to convert timezones, go to http://tvlistings2.zap2it.com/
enter your zipcode, choose your cable provider, and view the programming
grid. That will tell you exactly when it comes on for you.
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The reason for all this speculating is, as I have said before, I will be
moving in a month or so (maybe longer if I can finagle it). I'll be living
about 35-40 miles from work and the roads I'll drive on to get here are
rural (paved), somewhat hilly (very hilly in one area) and have speed limits
between 45 and "whatever you can get away with in the backwoods".
I have lost the war of charging at work, I know that. But after a little
snooping I have been told that if I drove a motorcycle, I could park it in
the little area behind the plant operations building where there is charging
for several golf carts.
So to use it as a "fair weather commuter" I need a bike with about a 50mile
range that can cruise about 55 or 60 (I'm a coward, don't want much more
than that) and can charge from a 110 outlet in less than 8 hours.
I'm pretty sure It can be done, but it gets a damned sight harder when you
realize I weigh just shy of 300 lbs.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several thousand
things that won't work. - Thomas Alva Edison
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Chris Tromley
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:18 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Electric motorcycles
>
>
> James Jarrett wrote:
>
> > Every time that EM thread comes around all the people "in the
> > know" say that it's just not possible to build an EM with
> > reasonable performance (i.e. capable of 55 or so) and good
> > range (round trip range of more than 40 miles).
>
> In my opinion, 55 mph is not adequate performance for an EM. It's OK
> for what I'd call a city bike, one that's used for around
> town, maybe on
> busy streets where the speeds might reach 50 mph. That's not what I
> consider a motorcycle.
>
> Also, speed is not performance. Much of what keeps you healthy on a
> motorcycle is power. When you whack the throttle open you
> squirt from a
> danger area to your escape. Most car drivers have no idea
> what kind of
> acceleration is available with a motorcycle, or how important
> it is for
> your safety.
>
> If you limit yourself to urban use, range becomes much easier to get.
>
> > I know that part of this is aerodynamics and the fact that
> > when you get over about 30mph you spend more energy pushing
> > the wind out of the way than actually moving the motorcycle.
>
> Aerodynamics are your biggest loss on a motorcycle. A circular
> cross-section is one of the worst for air resistance. A
> motorcycle has
> dozens of circular cross-section parts - frame tubes, forks, tires,
> handlebars, the rider's legs, arms, torso, helmet, etc.
>
> > Someone once said that a custom faring could cut these losses
> > down dramatically. What I got to wondering is exactly how
> > hard is it to make a custom faring. Say I have just built a
> > simple street bike using a golf cart or e-tek motor and a
> > transmission of some kind.
> >
> > Further stipulate that I have a max speed of say 55 or 60 mph
> > and a range of 25 miles. How much difference would a custom
> > faring make and what would I have to do to make one?
>
> Don't know, someone will have to try it. What do you mean by custom
> fairing? Something like a sport bike? Those won't get you much.
> Something more like a Land Speed Record fairing? It's important to
> understand that a really slippery fairing can be really inconvenient.
> Does it need doors to allow you to get on the bike? Or put your feet
> down?
>
> Another big issue is side gusts. If it's really slippery it will look
> like a sail from the side. That can give you handling ranging from
> spooky to dangerous.
>
> > Are there people on list who know how to do this?
>
> Building one isn't particularly difficult, but can take some time.
> Basic mold and fiberglass techniques will work. The hard part is
> figuring out what you want to do. And then doing it over
> again when you
> (inevitably) find what doesn't work.
>
> I believe Lawrence Rhodes has a an LSR-type fairing for a ~250cc size
> motorcycle (or a mold?). Lawrence, any results?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Aaron Birenboim wrote:
My view is that as sophisticated as our present AC drives seem, they are
really still early in their development cycle.
One data point: first Simovert inverters were installed in VW Golfs
in 1992. They were mature enough to be used by OEM and comply with
requirements. BTW many of those systems still run today.
Designs getting better and new models (like Simition) are developed.
Now you have 6 pack IGBT and single CPU board instead of 2 PCBs per
phase, but this is utilizing new components which became available
since then, not developing AC technology drives themselves.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah, that makes sense. On another note, does it strike anyone as odd that Discover
would premiere a show this late at night? Is that common?
Maybe they figure "electro-nerds" don't sleep. ;-)
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Lonnie Borntreger
On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 11:15 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> This can't be right. 10PM pacific would be 12PM Central.
Central (where I used to live) has the feed from the East coast. So
it's 10PM Eastern, 9PM Central. CA (where I now live) has the feed from
Discover Pacific (West coast) so it's shown at the "same scheduled
time" (10PM) as in Eastern (just 3 hours later in real life - or 10PM
Pacific).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I find amusing/ironic is that the show right before it is "Building
the Impossible". ;-)
On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 15:06 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Ah, that makes sense. On another note, does it strike anyone as odd
> that Discover would premiere a show this late at night? Is that
> common?
>
> Maybe they figure "electro-nerds" don't sleep. ;-)
>
> Richard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lonnie Borntreger
>
> On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 11:15 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > This can't be right. 10PM pacific would be 12PM Central.
>
> Central (where I used to live) has the feed from the East coast. So
> it's 10PM Eastern, 9PM Central. CA (where I now live) has the feed from
> Discover Pacific (West coast) so it's shown at the "same scheduled
> time" (10PM) as in Eastern (just 3 hours later in real life - or 10PM
> Pacific).
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James, this is something I gave some thought to a while back as I also would
like a EMC and although I have a couple Lectra project bikes I didnt think
the original Lectra wheels were large enough, the overall size of the bike
would make me feel like I was riding a mini-bike. Anyway, what about
building a decent performing EMC with whatever battery pack will fit
comfortably and then build a "BattHack" sidecar with a range extending
battery pack built into or under the floor? Rod Wilde and I discussed this
years ago when I mentioned to him that I have a Honda 360 with a small
sidecar but I really wanted to do a larger bike if I was going to go to the
effort to build somethingthe motivation and time . I tend to agree with
Lawrence Rhodes that the Lectra frame is hard to beat for size and batt
placement. It is back burnered right now due to lack of T&M but I have
acquired a pair of 17" or 18" mags for my Lectra glider for when I do get to
do a street cycle. I plan to head down to the local cycle wreckers to find a
longer front end and bits and will probably end up building an extended
swingarm to accomodate the larger wheel. BTW, if you ever acquire one of the
Lectra frames that were in the clearing out sale at EMB, be forewarned that
they had a very upright neck angle that would not necessarily be optimum for
higher speed street riding. I believe this was fixed in the later production
bikes. I plan to rake the neck on mine when I get to it. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: Electric motorcycles
> The reason for all this speculating is, as I have said before, I will be
> moving in a month or so (maybe longer if I can finagle it). I'll be
living
> about 35-40 miles from work and the roads I'll drive on to get here are
> rural (paved), somewhat hilly (very hilly in one area) and have speed
limits
> between 45 and "whatever you can get away with in the backwoods".
>
> I have lost the war of charging at work, I know that. But after a little
> snooping I have been told that if I drove a motorcycle, I could park it in
> the little area behind the plant operations building where there is
charging
> for several golf carts.
>
> So to use it as a "fair weather commuter" I need a bike with about a
50mile
> range that can cruise about 55 or 60 (I'm a coward, don't want much more
> than that) and can charge from a 110 outlet in less than 8 hours.
>
> I'm pretty sure It can be done, but it gets a damned sight harder when you
> realize I weigh just shy of 300 lbs.
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett
> http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/~jarrett/EV
>
> Results! Why man, I have gotten a lot of results. I know several thousand
> things that won't work. - Thomas Alva Edison
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Behalf Of Chris Tromley
> > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 4:18 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: Electric motorcycles
> >
> >
> > James Jarrett wrote:
> >
> > > Every time that EM thread comes around all the people "in the
> > > know" say that it's just not possible to build an EM with
> > > reasonable performance (i.e. capable of 55 or so) and good
> > > range (round trip range of more than 40 miles).
> >
> > In my opinion, 55 mph is not adequate performance for an EM. It's OK
> > for what I'd call a city bike, one that's used for around
> > town, maybe on
> > busy streets where the speeds might reach 50 mph. That's not what I
> > consider a motorcycle.
> >
> > Also, speed is not performance. Much of what keeps you healthy on a
> > motorcycle is power. When you whack the throttle open you
> > squirt from a
> > danger area to your escape. Most car drivers have no idea
> > what kind of
> > acceleration is available with a motorcycle, or how important
> > it is for
> > your safety.
> >
> > If you limit yourself to urban use, range becomes much easier to get.
> >
> > > I know that part of this is aerodynamics and the fact that
> > > when you get over about 30mph you spend more energy pushing
> > > the wind out of the way than actually moving the motorcycle.
> >
> > Aerodynamics are your biggest loss on a motorcycle. A circular
> > cross-section is one of the worst for air resistance. A
> > motorcycle has
> > dozens of circular cross-section parts - frame tubes, forks, tires,
> > handlebars, the rider's legs, arms, torso, helmet, etc.
> >
> > > Someone once said that a custom faring could cut these losses
> > > down dramatically. What I got to wondering is exactly how
> > > hard is it to make a custom faring. Say I have just built a
> > > simple street bike using a golf cart or e-tek motor and a
> > > transmission of some kind.
> > >
> > > Further stipulate that I have a max speed of say 55 or 60 mph
> > > and a range of 25 miles. How much difference would a custom
> > > faring make and what would I have to do to make one?
> >
> > Don't know, someone will have to try it. What do you mean by custom
> > fairing? Something like a sport bike? Those won't get you much.
> > Something more like a Land Speed Record fairing? It's important to
> > understand that a really slippery fairing can be really inconvenient.
> > Does it need doors to allow you to get on the bike? Or put your feet
> > down?
> >
> > Another big issue is side gusts. If it's really slippery it will look
> > like a sail from the side. That can give you handling ranging from
> > spooky to dangerous.
> >
> > > Are there people on list who know how to do this?
> >
> > Building one isn't particularly difficult, but can take some time.
> > Basic mold and fiberglass techniques will work. The hard part is
> > figuring out what you want to do. And then doing it over
> > again when you
> > (inevitably) find what doesn't work.
> >
> > I believe Lawrence Rhodes has a an LSR-type fairing for a ~250cc size
> > motorcycle (or a mold?). Lawrence, any results?
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I checked my Sat guide (DISHTV) and I find it showing at 7pm pacific standard time.
Nathan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
I have been offered a chance to purchase some older PV panels inside frames
and encapsulated. I have no idea when they were purchased or installed. I
know that they are something experimental from an unknown company in
California circa 1990-1995.
They appear to be round cells, approx. 6 inches in diameter, the material
almost appears to be thin film amphorous, but with a very intricate grid of
gold colored conductors on top and a gold colored metal sheet below. The
glass is clear, no cells are darkened and the owner states that he believes
these two panels produce around 4 amps at solar noon. The panels are about
12" X 36-40" in length.
Does anyone have any idea what I'm dealing with or how to valuate them for
resale? The owner doesn't have an asking price, which I hate to deal with.
Usually my response is a standard ~50 bucks~ when the seller tries to pull
that psuedo Dutch-auction stuff on me. He's a nice person and a neighbor of
a close friend, so I don't want to offend him.
Watt do you think??
Regards,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So to use it as a "fair weather commuter" I need a bike with about a 50mile
range that can cruise about 55 or 60 (I'm a coward, don't want much more
than that) and can charge from a 110 outlet in less than 8 hours.
I'm pretty sure It can be done, but it gets a damned sight harder when you
realize I weigh just shy of 300 lbs.
Uhm... Gold Wing with a side car and a trailer?
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they are sealed batteries and get overcharged, then in my experience
is that they shrink. They outgas then cool, resulting in sucked in
sides. You murdered your pack this winter any (every) time you took it
out until you saw a serious voltage sag. In my opinion.
Seth
On Apr 22, 2004, at 12:24 PM, Christopher Zach wrote:
Take no Offense, but it's battricide, not suicide. Your killing your
batteries, not yourself.
Excellent point. I do tend to personalize disaster; will have to work
on that aspect of my personality :-)
Second;
Have you tried to drill and fill your batteries?
No. But to be honest I'll try anything for a laugh. I did try filling
a pair of dynasty batteries (12-370)'s once. The first one I filled
till I could see water at the top of the plates. That um. did not work
since the battery would overheat instaed of getting past 12 volts.
Lots of fizzle. The second one I just put a bit in each hole and the
battery still works.
So how much water should one fill with? An eyedropper? A gallon jug?
What should one use to seal the hole with afterwards, and how bad is
plastic bits in the battery? Do I have to drill 6 holes, or just one
in the battery? Does it particularly matter where?
Hawkers are 21 pound AGM batteries.
Thanks!
Chris
Stay Charged!
but not overcharged
Hump
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of Chris Zach
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2004 11:06 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Min clearances
I'm glad you haven't given up on it.
No, I've had a good pout and cry, and will be replacing the pack.
The more I look at my telemetry logs the more I am sure that going
to the IUI charge algorythm blew the pack. It's ok; this was a
learning experience. But trying to run at pack at an average of 15
vpb at 10 amp charge rate is simple suicide. Even with regulators,
it's suicide.
I'm going to reprogram the MC to go back to it's factory setting. I
have it somewhere, but I think it was CV to 350 volts, then CC to
375 volts with a charge limit current of 1 amp or so. That way the
pack can bulk up quickly, but when the pack hits 14 vpb (and some
are at 15) the current is dropped way way back.
The batteries are bulged as well. It was not undercharged....
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For my DISHTV it will be on at 8:00pm in the Denver area. I imagine that
will be the same for other networks as well.
7:00PM Pacific
8:00PM Mountain
9:00PM Central
10:00PM East Coast
-Dave Stensland, Owner
Megawatt Motorworks, LLC
Discover the Potential
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nathan
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 5:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: tonight on Discovery Time Zones
I checked my Sat guide (DISHTV) and I find it showing at 7pm pacific
standard time.
Nathan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris, James and All,
The only way you are going to do this, 50
plus mile range at 55-60 mph is with a full aero body.
But that isn't as hard as it seems.
Next would be a good battery pack of ni-cads
or li-ions. AGM's do not have the energy density for
this. Floodeds might but it will be close. I can see
125 mile range with Li-ions if you have the money. But
if you can charge at work, lead will easily do it.
The e-Tek is custom made for this purpose,
eff and great regen that your commute needs at a
reasonable cost. I'd use 2 face to face driven by a
4qd PM controller like the Sevcon. With 90% eff and
regen goes a long way to get the range you need.
Two should make you quick enough in traffic
and get you up hills nicely. One is pushing the
E-woody, 1,300lbs loaded, around now, though not fast!
--- Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> James Jarrett wrote:
>
> > Every time that EM thread comes around all the
> people "in the
> > know" say that it's just not possible to build an
> EM with
> > reasonable performance (i.e. capable of 55 or so)
> and good
> > range (round trip range of more than 40 miles).
>
> > I know that part of this is aerodynamics and the
> fact that
> > when you get over about 30mph you spend more
> energy pushing
> > the wind out of the way than actually moving the
> motorcycle.
>
> Aerodynamics are your biggest loss on a motorcycle.
> A circular
> cross-section is one of the worst for air
> resistance. A motorcycle has
> dozens of circular cross-section parts - frame
> tubes, forks, tires,
> handlebars, the rider's legs, arms, torso, helmet,
> etc.
Motorcycles have the worst aero of all vehicles
but with a good aero body they can have the lowest
aero drag from low frontal area to start with.
A nice design is on the EVware list in it's
archives and some great posts on it, others you may
want to read.
A good aero body could be made up of Alum,
Lexan, fiberglass sheets or 1/8" ply. It only needs to
cover back to the rear of the driver, then chopped off
for the Kamm back effect. This cuts the 'sail area" to
be affected by gusts and weight.
I was worried about side gusts but don't believe
it to be as much a problem as I thought especially
with the short body version.
Here in Fla motorcycles go for a premium I guess
because of the weather and having a hard time finding
dead gliders for parts at a reasonable price.
After the new E-Woody is done an enclosed 2 wh +
3wh motorcycle is next.
The enclosed gas motorcycles on the market now
are going for $50,000 and up!!!!
With the batts, your weight, pick a big bike to
start with especially if you are going to use lead.
There is another aero way but no one believes it
so I don't talk about it anymore even though it works.
If I didn't want weather protection I'd go that way
but staying warm and dry in the rain and cold is why I
want an enclosed bike.
>
> > Someone once said that a custom faring could cut
> these losses
> > down dramatically. What I got to wondering is
> exactly how
> > hard is it to make a custom faring. Say I have
> just built a
> > simple street bike using a golf cart or e-tek
> motor and a
> > transmission of some kind.
> >
> > Further stipulate that I have a max speed of say
> 55 or 60 mph
> > and a range of 25 miles. How much difference
> would a custom
> > faring make and what would I have to do to make
> one?
At least twice as far. At 60 mph, road, aero
drag is only about 5-6hp on the flat with no wind and
a good aero body. Probably 16 hp without an aero body.
YMMV!!!
> Something more like a Land Speed Record fairing?
> It's important to
> understand that a really slippery fairing can be
> really inconvenient.
Not nessasary to go to that extreme. A .22CD or
so should do and a Kammback style can be that low. A
normal bike has a CD of .65-.70!
> Does it need doors to allow you to get on the bike?
> Or put your feet
> down?
These seem fairly easy to design for ease of exit
and putting your feet down when stopping the best way
to do things without a lot of complications.
Full length doors seem to be the way to go held
shut by springs so you can roll off the bike if
nessasary as it sometimes is.
> Another big issue is side gusts. If it's really
> slippery it will look
> like a sail from the side. That can give you
> handling ranging from
> spooky to dangerous.
There are a few aero tricks that can help this
like the roof not having a curve side to side with a
sharp corner, 2" radius or less on the roof edge. And
by keeping the body short, about 3' long above the
seat level and sight line about 52" above the road
should keep gust problems low.
Handlebars are a pain. I've come to like MOL
rectangular handlebars on my little E-trikes as you
can use either hand to drive, brake with and uses much
less space while turning. Important when restricted
inside a narrow body.
You can make one by cutting up the old one and
spinning the handgrips inward instead of outward and
welding the ends together.
>
> > Are there people on list who know how to do this?
>
> Building one isn't particularly difficult, but can
> take some time.
> Basic mold and fiberglass techniques will work. The
> hard part is
> figuring out what you want to do. And then doing it
> over again when you
> (inevitably) find what doesn't work.
Ah! the fun part ;^)).
I always build 2, the first is to figure out what
I'm doing and the second to do it right!!!
A body is much easier, faster made from sheet
materials.
HTH's
jerry dycus
>
> I believe Lawrence Rhodes has a an LSR-type fairing
> for a ~250cc size
> motorcycle (or a mold?). Lawrence, any results?
>
> Chris
>
__________________________________
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Yo, Roy!
Send me the files (email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] will do) and I'll
thumbnail them and put them up on my site.
Jude
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If they are sealed batteries and get overcharged, then in my experience
is that they shrink. They outgas then cool, resulting in sucked in
sides. You murdered your pack this winter any (every) time you took it
out until you saw a serious voltage sag. In my opinion.
Possibly. However in the winter I never took the pack below 15 amps. At
which point it would be pulling 280's under a 60amp load. Far better
than the 260 floor that is recommended.
The pack died in quantum bursts. Burst one dropped range from 35 miles
to 20. Burst 2 dropped it to 15 (might have been the cold). Burst 2a is
the current state of the pack.
I could continue to drive the thing 10 miles at a shot, but I need the
20-30 mile range again.
I'd love to believe I was simply hot-rodding the pack and dragging it
home at 250 volts. However with the exception of the last time I drove
it, that was not the case. in thinking about it, I never even took the
pack down 80%, even the 80% that is the pack at C discharge rate (42ah).
What blew it was my cranking up the charge current and voltage levels in
an attempt to "compensate" charge the pack. The true irony was tha such
compensation was not needed at the time. That ain't going to work on a
25 string battery pack. The IUI charge algorythm will cause problems
when you're trying to stuff 10 amps down a battery that is sitting at 18
volts.
Chris
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FWIW,
The ongoing price for OEM panels is $3..$4 per watt.
Ask the seller at what voltage the panels produce 4 amps.
If individual cells are interconnected in series/parallel
within a panel (they usually do), the voltage can be
anything, and his statement "they produce 4A" is as
meaningless as saying about the size of the yard
"my yard is 100 feet long".
If the panels are, say 30V, then producing 4A at noon
(at this voltage output, i.e. loaded, *NOT* 30V OCV!)
makes them 120W panels and the cost of OEM new one like that
would be $360...$480 depending on the brand.
Go from here,
Hope this helps,
Victor
Rick wrote:
Hello All,
I have been offered a chance to purchase some older PV panels inside frames
and encapsulated. I have no idea when they were purchased or installed. I
know that they are something experimental from an unknown company in
California circa 1990-1995.
They appear to be round cells, approx. 6 inches in diameter, the material
almost appears to be thin film amphorous, but with a very intricate grid of
gold colored conductors on top and a gold colored metal sheet below. The
glass is clear, no cells are darkened and the owner states that he believes
these two panels produce around 4 amps at solar noon. The panels are about
12" X 36-40" in length.
Does anyone have any idea what I'm dealing with or how to valuate them for
resale? The owner doesn't have an asking price, which I hate to deal with.
Usually my response is a standard ~50 bucks~ when the seller tries to pull
that psuedo Dutch-auction stuff on me. He's a nice person and a neighbor of
a close friend, so I don't want to offend him.
Watt do you think??
Regards,
Rick
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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I'm not a lawyer, but I've had to deal with lots of copyright issues in
my programming exploits. I was involved with a lot of video production
early on, so I got stuck in some copyright discussions, too.
Recording a copy and distributing it to your friends is covered under
fair usage. The only time that this is not the case is when you have
decrypted it for this purpose.
Actually, decrypting is illegal under the DMCA. "Fair use" is entirely
different. Essentially, fair use allows you to make "backups", transfer
to more convenient media, and time-shift, and use *portions* of a
copyrighted work for critique, satire, and education.
Since the courts and lawyers and different high powered lobbies have
not been able to determine what really is and isn't OK is this realm,
I doubt we will get it figured out on this list before 10pm tonight :-)
The fair use doctrine was deliberately vague. There aren't any
hard-and-fast rules. But there are very hard penalties: $150,000 for
each act -- and a judge could interpret this as each download.
The problem is that this work is copyrighted, you're redistributing it,
and you're not exercising any of the fair use exemptions (see
http://www.utsystem.edu/ogc/intellectualproperty/copypol2.htm#rules for
a nice, compact list). There's not a judge anywhere who would find for
you, although I doubt any judge would impose the full penalty, either.
On the subject of copying to friends, most copyright holders have
overlooked it traditionally because it's generally not much of an impact
(3 or 4 friends at most). But when you start distributing on the
Internet, they'll be upset. If they notice.
Judebert
Here are a few links to fair use information:
http://www.utsystem.edu/ogc/intellectualproperty/copypol2.htm#rules
http://www.benedict.com/info/law/fairUse/fairUse.aspx
http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html#fairuse
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If the panels are, say 30V, then producing 4A at noon
(at this voltage output, i.e. loaded, *NOT* 30V OCV!)
makes them 120W panels and the cost of OEM new one like that
would be $360...$480 depending on the brand.
Typically you rate solar panel current capacity by dead shorting them
with an ammeter. This will give their max current capacity, and is
totally safe (well, until the panel produces more than 10 amps and your
meter is rated for 10a max)
12 volt panels usually put about 19-20 volts OCV, 24 volt panels up to
40. This is important when sizing wires, etc.
Chris
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> I'll be living about 35-40 miles from work and the roads I'll drive
> on to get here are rural (paved), somewhat hilly (very hilly in one
> area) and have speed limits between 45 and "whatever you can get
> away with in the backwoods"... So to use it as a "fair weather
> commuter" I need a bike with about a 50 mile range that can cruise
> about 55 or 60 and can charge from a 110 outlet in less than 8 hours.
Cedric Lynch's feet-forward motorcycle could do this, I think. Lynch
motor, Thunder-Sky LiIon batteries, and I'm not sure what he used as a
controller. But like any good EV, it was purpose-built -- not a
conversion.
--
"Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the
world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Meade
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Excellent show. A few thoughts:
1) This put my problems with the Prizm and it's pack into proper
perspective
2) Got to see what Rudman and company look like
3) I am only an egg.
CZ
Learning every day.
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The next showing is Sunday at 10am.
-
Sucking Amps
DSC 278 Apr 22 07:00pm
Special/Other, 60 Mins.
Backyard engineers reinvent the electric car.
Original Airdate: April 22, 2004.
Future Airings:
Sucking Amps, DSC Apr 22 10:00pm
Sucking Amps, DSC Apr 25 10:00am
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod and All,
Great program!!
As I don't have cable had to go to a bar to see
it but got to talk to a bunch of people about EV's
while watching it.
I hope the next one has more details of the GP
instead of personal problems with Casey.
Nice to finally see and hear those from the
list.
Maybe talk in HP instead of KW's or both so
non-EV'ers understand it better.
Congats Rod and Crew!!!
jerry dycus
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
Let fly with your opinions please. My family is very interested in a 93
Ford Escort that was an EV from day one. The Soleq corporation in Chicago
bought gliders and put in:
Motor: 40 Kw General Electric shunt-wound DC motor�
Drivetrain: Standard Ford 5 speed transmission and clutch assembly, uses
2nd and 3rd gears only
Controller: Soleq 40 kW separately excited DC traction control system
Batteries: 18 Sonnenshein sealed 6 Volt
System Voltage: 108 volts
Charger: Soleq 120 VAC selectable input current limit, 30 Amp, 20 Amp,
or 16 Amp
Heater: 2 Kw electric cabin heater
DC/DC Converter: Soleq 40 Amp
Instrumentation: a) Tachometer
b) Digital volt meter,
c) Digital ampere meter
Top Speed: 85 mph
Range: Average is 40 miles (60 if driven conservatively)
Seating: 5
Weight: 4019 Pounds
My remaining questions: what is the life expectancy of the sealed
Sonnensheins compared to a Trojan T105 (I'm imagining less)? Can something
like the T105 be installed at replacement time without major battery rack
refabricating? How is the quality of the Soleq components: the DC/DC, the
controller, the charger?
As you can probably guess, we are not very interested in acceleration. We
want room for the family and maximum range (without breaking the bank). Of
course, we'd be open to better batteries when replacement time comes if
there is a reliable supplier and significantly better energy density and a
reasonable price available...
Jerry
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Hi Rod and Crew and list,
I enjoyed watching Sucking Amps this evening and sent some positive
feedback to the Discovery Channel. All things considered, I thought it
was pretty well done, and they didn't even call you "electro-nerds" :-)
We've been spreading the word here at WPI and turned a lot of heads
already. I gotta go order a T-Shirt. Keep up the good work,
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 11:29 PM
Subject: GP show, Re: "sucking amps"
>
> Hi Rod and All,
> Great program!!
> As I don't have cable had to go to a bar to see
> it but got to talk to a bunch of people about EV's
> while watching it.
> I hope the next one has more details of the GP
> instead of personal problems with Casey.
> Nice to finally see and hear those from the
> list.
> Maybe talk in HP instead of KW's or both so
> non-EV'ers understand it better.
> Congats Rod and Crew!!!
> jerry dycus
>
> Hi Sucking Amps Crew;
Great show!And I was there! They did a good job stringing all the
footage into a how-it's-done show. Just wrote to Discovery channel asking
for a sequil, and maybe a series. Gees! We have plenty of picturesque
talent. Plasma Boy Racing! The Kilo, and Mega cycle, CA Poppy, Goldie,Father
Times Bike, the Whatchmacallit ,Current Eliminater, Orange Juice, Dualin' 7,
I left a bunch of guyz out, but ya all catch my drift.Electric Louie's 110
mph in the Quarter Go Kart. Maybe other folks wrote into the show? Lets hope
so.Go DO it! Now!!
Seeya
Bob
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
> http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
--- End Message ---
