EV Digest 3486
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Electric motorcycles
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: "Sucking Amps" was the best EV show ever!
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV's in the UK
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: "Sucking Amps" Tonight on Discovery
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Need engine-proof interface box for MOAT
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Need engine-proof interface box for MOAT
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Sucking Amps on Discovery Channel DVD's, Tapes for sale
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electric motorcycles/Range record attempt.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV panels
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) My take on "Sucking Amps"
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: "Sucking Amps" Tonight on Discovery
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV panels
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Buying questions: Soleq EV
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV panels
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) was that you?!
by JD & Heather <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV panels
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: My take on "Sucking Amps"
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Sucking amps
by "" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: "Sucking Amps" was the best EV show ever!
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV Dash SW for Palm Pilot interface to Link10 E-meter
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: "Sucking Amps" was the best EV show ever!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: was that you?!
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: "Sucking Amps" was the best EV show ever!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: "Sucking Amps" was the best EV show ever!
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Soleq charger MANUAL needed
by Roger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: sucking amps
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Motorcycles generally have worse aerodynamics, but the frontal area
is often small enough to make a difference. The CdA of the Kawasaki
Hayabusa sportbike is only 3.37 ft^2, besting the Honda Insight's
5.1ft^2 by a substantial margin.
Of course, comfort becomes a factor, not to mention the negotiations
with your insurance agent.
Tim
----------
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Electric motorcycles
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 16:18:18 -0400
Don't know, someone will have to try it.� What do you mean by custom
fairing?� Something like a sport bike?� Those won't get you much.
Something more like a Land Speed Record fairing?� It's important to
understand that a really slippery fairing can be really inconvenient.
Does it need doors to allow you to get on the bike?� Or put your feet
down?
_________________________________________________________________
Lose those love handles! MSN Fitness shows you two moves to slim your waist.
http://fitness.msn.com/articles/feeds/article.aspx?dept=exercise&article=et_pv_030104_lovehandles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> As everyone knows that watched it, "Sucking Amps" was the best EV TV show
> ever. Great stuff!
> >>>>
>
> Send me the dimensions of the drive box and I'll design a chain drive to
> fit. Also, send me the dimensions of the rear drive components and I'll
> tell you how much torque they will withstand. You can then set the Zilla to
> a hold a motor current limit that won't break the "weakest link".
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
Day late dollar short
It's been tripple wide #40 chain for 2 weeks now.
That's why we broke the half shaft. Our weak links are now outside of
the box.
Design for 400 motor shaft Ftlbs at 2000 amps. 1:3.75 ratio, 24.00 tall
Nitto 555D Dot leagal street sticky Rubber.
You will find that 5000 lbs of chain force is NOT too far off. And
that's a SIDE. So we have close to 10,000 lbs of force trying to crush
the drive case.
Ot's G-dyno motor torque numbers are real and honest, but I have data
that shows it's a lower minimum, becase the losses are not measure able
in a EV on the fly.
You get Watts in and force at the tire surface, You have now data to
guess on as to how much is REALLY at the motor shafts. The torque
coumpounding I see at 450 amps is going to make a LOT more(like %50) if
we take it out to a real 2000 amps, and keep the commutation stable. I
can put a honest bet on 400 ftlbs on the motor at 2000 amps, But it
looks like with brush movment, a locked rotor start, and 2x than say 800
should be a design maximum point. We might get there... engineer the
drive line to take it.
Does #40 tripple wide industrial chain survive at 10,000 lbs of
tension???? it's rated to 11,000 with a yeild about 5X that on fresh
chain.
Can you shed any other light on this Data??? The reason for 3.75:1 and
#40 is it still fits in the rear drive case. You can't use a 26 inch
diameter driven pulley and Nitro bike chain... without trashing the
whole rear drive layout.
I want a 9 inch ring and pinion and about a 4:15 ratio. And MUCH better
timing.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Matt,
Agreed, it would be nice to have outlets dedicated to and convenient
for EV charging. But compared to our 110v situation here in the states,
it seems like heaven. I see outdoor sockets occasionally, but can't
use them. A major problem for us isn't such a big deal over there. Do
you carry an extension cord?
Marc
On Apr 23, 2004, at 6:50 AM, Matt Trevaskis wrote:
Marc,
Agreed, our grid being 230-240V single-phase (or 400-415V three-phase)
means
that home and opportunity charging is a lot easier and quicker, but
the only
really accessible outlets for Joe Public are caravan (RV) parks! If I
attempt a long journey I arrange with caravan parks to use one of their
hook-ups. There are only a few publicly accessible socket outlets
specifically for EVs, mostly in London - 350 miles from me!
Matt
1999 Peugeot Scoot'elec 13,000 miles
(0-95% in 2 hours from 240V!)
From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 11:19:07 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EV's in the UK
Why do you say there's no charging infrastructure in GB except caravan
parks. Why can't you just plug the car in anywhere? Unlike us in the
US, your grid is 220v.
Marc
Th!nk City driver till 8/04
San Francisco CA
On Apr 22, 2004, at 5:59 AM, Matt Trevaskis wrote:
Robert,
See, I told you even getting a brochure is difficult!! When I got
one
from
my local dealer he had to fish it out of the back of a cupboard and
blow the
dust off it - seriously!!
It's stupid but Citroen CANNOT sell you the van with a seat already
(retro)fitted because the vehicle then wouldn't be "type approved".
You
_could_ fit a genuine Berlingo rear seat with difficulty, since it
involves
chopping the floor to fit anchorage points. And to buy the seat
frame,
cushions and covers etc. is over GBP1,000 - I know because I've
checked!
You could get them from a wrecked one at a breaker's yard...
Probably
better to get an aftermarket one fitted from a company that does
minibus
conversions etc.
Windows - you can't fit the genuine rear windows from the Berlingo
car
(nice
pop out ones) because the side panels are different :-( In France it
can be
ordered with fixed side windows so you SHOULD be able to do the same
here,
but I don't think that Citroen UK will (yes, they are all made in the
same
factory in Vigo, Spain but why should that make it sensible?!)
The batteries WERE on a lease scheme up until a year or two ago.
They
probably haven't sold one since (if at all!) so don't realise that
it's
changed. I think that the change was prompted by the way the EST
calculate
their grants, so Citroen changed to take advantage of it!
You shouldn't have difficulty replacing the batteries - they are made
by a
company called Saft and are used in most of the European EVs on the
market.
There are 27 individual "monoblocs" in the Berlingo costing about
200-250
quid each. I've got similar batteries in my scooter (but only 3 of
them!)
but the Berlingo uses water-cooled ones as opposed to air-cooled.
Life
expectancy will vary with how you treat them, but five years before
you
notice a drop in range is probably fair. Check what the warranty on
the
batteries is like - with the Peugeot scooter it is for 4 years.
The Renault Kangoo hybrid is probably the most practical and
developed
EV on
the road in Europe today, using an AC motor giving much better
efficiency
than the Berlingo. It has the same 60 mile pure EV-mode range as the
electric-only mode using 22 of the air-cooled Saft batteriesl, with a
petrol
range extender to boost the range to 125-ish miles, circumventing the
problem of virtually no public charging infrastructure in the UK,
apart from
caravan parks!
There is at least one in the country apparently, which I'm hoping to
get to
see and drive soon. Probably only available in LHD, bought directly
from
France. The range extender adds about GBP2,500 onto the price tag of
around
GBP15,000. If you want a brochure (in English) phone Renault France
on
00800 220 240 16 (International toll-free). Even though they produce
the
brochure in English, Renault UK don't sell the car...
I agree about raising EV's profile - something that I've been trying
to do
down here in Cornwall for the past few years. I take my scooter
around to
shows whenever I can - it generates a lot of interest. I even rode
it
105
miles (round trip) to go to a 'green fair' last summer which proves
the
range topic isn't really an issue!
Yes, I could be interested in co-authoring something to further the
cause!
Matt
From: "robert fall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2004 15:32:49 +0100
To: "'Matt Trevaskis'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: EV's in the UK
Hi Matt,
Thanks, that's great. Have you seen this;
http://www.citroen.mb.ca/citroenet/html/b/blingo3.htm
It gives a good summary of the specs.
I rang Citroen and the first guy said "we don't have a brochure" and
then hung up when I asked for one!
When I rang them back the next lady was much more helpful. She took
all
my details and said she would arrange a test drive.
I rang again as I realised I'd forgot to ask if I could have a back
seat
fitted, and the next guy I spoke to said this would be possible but
I'd
have to get it done privately and that the extra weight would reduce
the
range.
Then the dealer rang and said that Citroen were talking rubbish,
that
they didn't have an electic van in their fleet, and that the
batteries
would be on lease. When I said I'd have to ring back Citroen to
check
where else I could buy one, he started to become a little more
helpful
and said he'd look into it and ring me back. I'll let you know how I
get
on.
Citroen told me the battery life would be about five years. Do you
think
it would be very difficult to get a replacement battery after this
time?
I've faxed citroen to ask, since the last time I rang they put me on
hold.
I think that what we need to do in the UK is to try and get EV's
more
available. EV's need to raise their public profile and thus raise
demand. Most people just don't know that EV's even exist.
How would you feel about the idea of co-writing an article about
EV's
and seeing how many local papers, car magazines, student papers,
websites etc that we can get it on to. Even if our focus was just on
one
model (like the Berlingo) maybe we could start of a bit of a
snowball
that would stimulate the market. OK, maybe I'm getting a bit carried
away, but seriously, how about having a stab at co-authoring an
article?
Robert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a viewer all I saw was a picture from behind Rod's head with the
viper racing down the track while Gone Postal seemed to be sitting
still.
That Viper was one of the fastest and highly modified Vipers in the
country. Rod wanted to make sure the competition was absolutely the very
best. Considering that the race was essentially the first time the thing
had ever seen even 1/2 throttle, it was no real surprise to see it
break. The fast that it made it to the track at all was a super
accomplishment.
The reason Rod was left standing at the start was that every time he
really put his foot into it, something broke almost immediately. From
where I was standing (50 feet down the track from the starting line),
Rod broke the puppy during the launches when the torque was greatest,
not 1/2 way down the track as the show implied.
Did you like the "conversion" of removing the gasser engine and gas
tank?? That was totally faked just to illustrate the conversion process.
That van was electric from the start!
Oh yeah. Someone asked what the painter's excuse was. What I heard was
that the painter was asserting that he did a fantastic job, delivering
what he promised. Kind of like he was SO young and inexperienced, he
didn't realize how much he screwed the pooch. Glad they never mentioned
the shop name. They didn't deserve any publicity.
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Starting work on the MOAT (mother of all telemetry) system, and I have
been thinking:
One of the biggest problems is finding quick disconnects from the pack
to everything I could want to monitor in one shot. We're looking at 50+
wires for the batteries, plus another 50 light wires for the telemetry,
and possibilities for any other things I might think of. Given that to
drop the pack to add anything is a screaming pain in the rear and that
whatever I do it has to be able to come off the pack.
Or the car. Current thought is this: I run a waterproof conduit between
the pack transfer and a junction box. The pack wires come off the
batteries via the transfer relays, each line fused and rated for 10
amps. Wires go to the junction box which can be removed from the car. In
the junction box the wires go to barrier strips which can then be
attached to things like transformers, monitor devices, optoisolators,
resistive breakouts, regs, and the like.
Question is who makes a nice waterproof electronics box that I could
mount things on. This would probably attach to the car's firewall, and
would be removed from the car when the pack came down.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2004-04-23 at 14:15, Christopher Zach wrote:
> Question is who makes a nice waterproof electronics box that I could
> mount things on. This would probably attach to the car's firewall, and
> would be removed from the car when the pack came down.
Search for NEMA enclosures at www.mcmaster.com lots of nice choices. Not
waterproof, but gasketed and splash proof. (The one I purchased was
shipped air, and even after 3 days sitting in my office was nearly
impossible to open because of the lower pressure trapped within.)
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy folk's,
I called 1-800-627-9399 Discovery after I couldn't find tapes/dvd's of
"Sucking Amps" on the Websight to buy. They said that maybe they would have
some listed in a couple weeks if there's interest. Sooo make some interest
folk's :-) Also mention that you'd like to see it continued. Maybe that'll
help the series. Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lonnie Borntreger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: Sucking Amps on Discovery Channel
> On Thu, 2004-04-22 at 20:25 -0700, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > Original Airdate: April 22, 2004.
> > Future Airings:
> > Sucking Amps, DSC Apr 22 10:00pm
> > Sucking Amps, DSC Apr 25 10:00am
>
> It's going to be on again tonight at 1AM.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 60 amps is 3hp? Wow that's more than I thought.
At 50 vdc nom.
1 hp = 746 watts plus losses for eff so about 830
watts/hp in real life for the E-Tek and about
930watts/hp for the A-89.
Using your fairing you could get down to about
2.5 hp at 60 mph with a good drag reduction program.
2.5 hp would be about 40 wt/hr/mile.
If you get down to 50wt/hr/mile which you should
be able to do, a 10 kw batt pack gets you 200 miles
range. YMMV
> Lawrence Rhodes. Maybe we
> go recumbent. I have two Lectra wheels. One with a
> tire on it. Might be a
> good place to start. Build from the ground up. The
> point is to also
> introduce good aerodynamics into a street bike.
Yes, aero, ground up is the key!
jerry dycus
> Lawrence Rhodes.....
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
If the panels are, say 30V, then producing 4A at noon
(at this voltage output, i.e. loaded, *NOT* 30V OCV!)
makes them 120W panels and the cost of OEM new one like that
would be $360...$480 depending on the brand.
Typically you rate solar panel current capacity by dead shorting them
with an ammeter. This will give their max current capacity, and is
totally safe (well, until the panel produces more than 10 amps and your
meter is rated for 10a max)
12 volt panels usually put about 19-20 volts OCV, 24 volt panels up to
40. This is important when sizing wires, etc.
Chris
Not an expert in this, but I think rating at, say, 10A
dead shorted to an ammeter tells you little about current
at rated voltage. It may give you 15A dead short but only 1A
when approaching working voltage. Unless dead short ratings
can be consistently related to the actual working conditions,
I can't see them terribly meaningful.
Optima dead short current is about 1800A, TS LiIon cells
perhaps about 800A. Which battery is "better" in actual
application? Yes, it's not the same thing, but...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All, I was very impressed with the educational aspect of the show. The
action seemed non stop. I was glad we had so many different amp heads
involved. It would have been great to have "Plasma Boy" involved but I knew
he had a "real" job and couldn't get away for six weeks of 10 hour a day of
filming. I won't find out if we go to series until the beginning of the week
but I feel quite confident that it will happen. Then I can bring in people
like John Wayland. We are currently both competing for the same record and
things are going to be tense. Us racing each other and all the trash talk
would make for good TV. I felt the show had interest for a good cross
section of the population. We are getting feedback from many people who
never gave electric vehicles a second thought and now want one. Some people
even want to build electric race cars to kick our butt. This is great! They
also didn't portray us as nerds. I was ready for them. I was about to make
an in your face T-shirt that said: I would rather be an "Electro Nerd" than
a "Petro Turd" :-)
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Sucking Amps" was great TV watching. The best part for me was seeing those
I know, Rod,
Father Time, Madman, and Otmar doing their thing. I also enjoyed watching
such an
improbable truck made into a drag racer. I wasn't disappointed in GP's
performance; the
fact that it could be built at all with the limited time and resources
available was impressive
enough for me.
I was disappointed that the photography didn't capture any impression of
speed. GP seemed
to barely move. Yes, I know its performance wasn't dazzling but surely it
wasn't as slow as
it appeared to be. Images of GP crawling while its competitor was seen
rapidly going
out of sight did hurt.
Let's give everybody involved with GP the praise that's due for a job well
done.
Tom Shay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The PV panels I have looked at all listed the open circuit voltage, short
circuit current, and also voltage and amperage at max power. Which gives
enough info to setup a system.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 3:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (OT, solar) Trying to identify solar technology on used PV
panels
> Not an expert in this, but I think rating at, say, 10A
> dead shorted to an ammeter tells you little about current
> at rated voltage. It may give you 15A dead short but only 1A
> when approaching working voltage. Unless dead short ratings
> can be consistently related to the actual working conditions,
> I can't see them terribly meaningful.
>
> Optima dead short current is about 1800A, TS LiIon cells
> perhaps about 800A. Which battery is "better" in actual
> application? Yes, it's not the same thing, but...
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
If you have a smart charger (eg Brusa) with the right profile
Sonnenscheins will last a very long time. If you don't, then they won't.
If you were to get the profile for a force and scale it to the
Sonnenschein, that would work. Properly charged, they will last >3x
longer than something like a Hawker. If Deka makes a smiliar battery, it
may be a cheaper equivalent to the Sonnenschein.
If you go with floodies, you have the mess and corrosion problems that
sealed batteries do not have. And you have to water them.
Seth
You can download exact Sonnenschein dryfit battery charging profiles
from the library of profiles for BRUSA NLG5xx chargers off my page:
http://www.metricmind.com/library.htm
It is not terribly useful file unless you have BRUSA charger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Not an expert in this, but I think rating at, say, 10A
> dead shorted to an ammeter tells you little about current
> at rated voltage. It may give you 15A dead short but only 1A
> when approaching working voltage. Unless dead short ratings
> can be consistently related to the actual working conditions,
> I can't see them terribly meaningful.
>
> Optima dead short current is about 1800A, TS LiIon cells
> perhaps about 800A. Which battery is "better" in actual
> application? Yes, it's not the same thing, but...
>
Very important: Solar panels are not the same as batteries. At a dead
short they put out maximum current, which is just about equal to the
peak current that they will deliver at rated voltage. The panels on my
roof for example can put out a dead short of 15+ amps in direct sun, and
can charge my shed batteries (24 volt base) at a bit over 14 amps.
And they can do this as long as sunlight is on them for up to 20 years
or so. The interesting thing is that you can short a solar panel without
damaging it. When working on the panels step #1 is to short them out.
Then cover them with an opaque tarp.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gadget,
Was that you doing the welding in the parking lot on Sucking Amps?
John David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Siebert wrote:
It should be Voc, open circuit voltage.
In a formula you'd write Voc, in a description
context it is just an accepted abbreviation of
English words.
OCV - Open Circuit Voltage, (or sometimes
I see Open Clamp Voltage) - the terminal voltage
with lo load.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod;
Nice job on the show. It should generate a lot of interest for EV's!!!
Next time you guys film at the track, try to get the film crew to get
some closeups shots of GP launching. They would be a lot more
impressive than the shots from 1/2 track!!
Great job!! And it's nice to be able to put some faces with some of the
names from the list.
A filmed "Friendly" Rivalry between you and Mr Wayland would make for
good tv too. But you need another couple of shows showing GP getting
sorted out.
Maybe you can Dennis to come out and play too.....
Bob
Roderick Wilde wrote:
Hi All, I was very impressed with the educational aspect of the show. The
action seemed non stop. I was glad we had so many different amp heads
involved. It would have been great to have "Plasma Boy" involved but I knew
he had a "real" job and couldn't get away for six weeks of 10 hour a day of
filming. I won't find out if we go to series until the beginning of the week
but I feel quite confident that it will happen. Then I can bring in people
like John Wayland. We are currently both competing for the same record and
things are going to be tense. Us racing each other and all the trash talk
would make for good TV. I felt the show had interest for a good cross
section of the population. We are getting feedback from many people who
never gave electric vehicles a second thought and now want one. Some people
even want to build electric race cars to kick our butt. This is great! They
also didn't portray us as nerds. I was ready for them. I was about to make
an in your face T-shirt that said: I would rather be an "Electro Nerd" than
a "Petro Turd" :-)
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree the filming didn't make GP look as quick as it really is. (Maybe if he was
competing against a stock PT Cruiser instead of a hopped up Viper.) ;-}
On Rod's last launch though you can clearly see his head getting slammed around from
the forces he's experiencing. And didn't he say after the first run that he still
crossed the traps at 15 some odd seconds and 95mph; that is waaaayy more impressive
than the filmography shows. Consider, Plasma Boy is hoping to break 100mph this
season with the Zombie and GP is only 5mph away with only 1/3 of it's motors working
for 2/3 of the pull in a vehicle that weighs more than twice as much.
If they can get a full-power pull without breaking anything they will SMOKE the
Zombie. To hell with the Viper.
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Tom Shay
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 4:33 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: "Sucking Amps" Tonight on Discovery
>
>
> "Sucking Amps" was great TV watching. The best part for me was seeing those
> I know, Rod, Father Time, Madman, and Otmar doing their thing. I also
> enjoyed watching such an
> improbable truck made into a drag racer. I wasn't disappointed in GP's
> performance; the
> fact that it could be built at all with the limited time and resources
> available was impressive enough for me.
>
> I was disappointed that the photography didn't capture any impression of
> speed. GP seemed to barely move. Yes, I know its performance wasn't
> dazzling but surely it wasn't as slow as it appeared to be. Images of GP
> crawling while its competitor was seen rapidly going out of sight did hurt.
>
> Let's give everybody involved with GP the praise that's due for a job well
> done.
>
> Tom Shay
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Day late dollar short
Oh well.....
It's been tripple wide #40 chain for 2 weeks now.
That's why we broke the half shaft. Our weak links are now outside of
the box.
Does #40 tripple wide industrial chain survive at 10,000 lbs of
tension???? it's rated to 11,000 with a yeild about 5X that on fresh
chain.
Motorcycle chain is much stronger than industrial chain.
I was thinking about a pair of twin 630 chains on each side. You
buy #60 industrial twin sprockets and machine 1/8" inch off the inside of
each sprocket. This will allow two #630 motorcycle chains to fit
side-by-side (with the master links facing outward.)
I don't know what the space limitations are, but at least 14 teeth
on the drive sprocket would be prudent. Use O-ring style chain.
Each single row of # 630 has the strength of your #40 triple-row
industrial chain.
You can do something very similar with #530 motorcycle chain since
you are cramped for space.
When I looked at the rear drive components in the video, I felt
there was little hope that they would take the torque.
You have to figure that the down force on the tires will be MORE
than the entire weight of the van. (As the van squats, and then rotates
forward, the rotational inertia of the van, along with the entire weight of
the van, pushes down on the rear tires.) The max coefficient of friction on
the track is very nearly 3.0. Thus, the max torque (before slippage) on the
24" diameter rear tires is quite likely to peak out at a bit more than
three times the weight of the van.
I don't remember what the van weighs, but I seem to remember
something like 5,000 pounds. This means that you could see as much as
15,000 ft-lbs total rear torque with everything set to get a primo launch
off the line. If it divides evenly (it may not) this is 7,500 ft-lbs per
side. You are going to have a tough time finding IRS components to take
this much torque. Perhaps something from a large truck.
Looking at the electrical side, there isn't much chance of hitting
the traction limit with a vehicle this heavy. You aren't going to be able
to spin the tires on the launch unless the truck goes on a serious diet.
In the mean time....
Just eye-balling what you have for CV joints, I would guess that
they will take about 1,000 ft-lbs (each) before something fails. (VERY
rough guess.) With a 3.75 ratio, this works out to 266 ft-lbs on each
motor. Dial in the Zilla motor amps to what the chart says will make 266
ft-lbs and go racing. It should hang together.
You might replace the key stock with "maraging steel". Of course,
something else will fail, but the key won't break again. :^)
Again, assuming the van weighs 5000 lbs, you would be wise in
redesigning the drive box to allow a greater final drive ratio. I'd guess
4.5:1. You want to have the motors spinning very near max RPM when you
reach your 100 MPH goal. If you gear for max RPM at the finish line, you
will get the best possible launch torque.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've used the EVdash program on a Palm III OK. I had troubles getting
the software to download, but someone here explained the zip-ed version
is needed to not get corrupted and then all was fine.
As for AllTrax... the same question has come up for the new sep-ex unit
for ElecTraks. The official software provided requires WinXP and some of
us use Win98 (and/or prefer Mac/Linux). We've had no luck getting info
on the serial protocol used either. My motivation to figure it out is on
hold as we are waiting for updated firmware to make the sep-ex survive
open field conditions.
- Jim, who is very behind on his EVDL mail
And who transported sound system equipment in his EV last night which
generated enough interest & questions to make an otherwise dull task fun.
Myles Twete wrote:
Is anyone successfully using Peter Ohler's EV Dash software on a Palm Pilot
to display Link10 E-meter data? EVDash pages:
http://www.ohler.com/palm/EVDash.html
My understanding is that it works on early Palm OS versions (up to v2.0),
but may not on later versions. I'm using a Palm M-105 w/Palm OS v3.5 and no
serial data gets displayed.
If anyone out there is successfully using EV Dash, please share the details:
Palm Pilot type, OS version, etc.
Also, if anyone has put together any other serial interface program for the
E-meter and/or ALLTRAX AXE controllers, I'd be interested. Ideally, I'm
looking to have 2 cheap Palm Pilots on my boat dashboard with one displaying
E-meter data (Vbat, Ibat, AHrs, etc.) and the other displaying AXE data
(Vmtr, Imtr, Tcntlr, etc.).
Thanks.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bill for the offer of your engineering expertise. We probably could
have used it in the beginning of the project but I think we are about there.
Just today I received inner and outer CV joints from The Driveshaft Shop in
New York www.driveshaftshop.com. These puppies have been tested with 600
foot pounds of torque at the motor shaft of a rag race car that has 1100 HP
at the crank and 850 to the ground. It is turbo charged and has nitrous
injection. It turns in the low 8s. I feel confident we are going to solve
our breakage problem. The outer CVs are made of 300M steel. The inners are
chrome molly. We are having the axles made of 300M also. Father Time will be
picking up the axle material from me to take it to the heat treater for the
initial core heat treat. This is followed by the machining and then a double
heat treat process to case harden them. Also we will be driving differently
at the strip. On the street when I twisted off the 4340 heat treated axle I
didn't preload the drive so there was a tremendous shock load applied.
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 9:41 AM
Subject: "Sucking Amps" was the best EV show ever!
> As everyone knows that watched it, "Sucking Amps" was the best EV TV show
> ever. Great stuff!
> >>>>
>
> Send me the dimensions of the drive box and I'll design a chain drive to
> fit. Also, send me the dimensions of the rear drive components and I'll
> tell you how much torque they will withstand. You can then set the Zilla
to
> a hold a motor current limit that won't break the "weakest link".
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gadget,
Was that you doing the welding in the parking lot on Sucking Amps?
Yeah, that was gadget with the homemade welding goggles. It was cool to
see him so willing to roll up his sleeves and pitch in when he just
showed up as a spectator.
That is really what has characterized this project from the beginning.
Everyone who has been willing to contribute time and effort to help make
it all come together.
-Ken Trough
Publisher - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
24 hour AIM - ktrough
24 hour message center - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mustang and Corvette IRSs might be up to it. Figure about 3:1 for
first gear, 3:1 for the rear end, for roughly an overall 10:1
reduction ratio. Stock the motors make almost 400 ft lbs of torque,
so they are taking about 4000 ft lbs of torque at the rear axle.
Dang, the GP does twice the torque of a V8 Corvette, on just one of
the two axles!
--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> off the line. If it divides evenly (it may not) this is 7,500
> ft-lbs per
> side. You are going to have a tough time finding IRS components to
> take
> this much torque. Perhaps something from a large truck.
> ...
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25�
http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill, The rear drive no longer has keyed hubs. They are now splined and
torqued on with a big nut just like the outer CVs are. The triple row chain
is #40 because that is all that will fit in there to get our perfect 3.75
ratio. I say perfect because I was in the drivers seat and felt the nitrous
feel of acceleration at one third power from over 70 something at the eight
mile to over ninety in 6 seconds. I have been electric drag racing for over
ten years and have never felt an electric pull that hard on the top end. It
was amazing when I hit fifth gear and a tenth of a second later the
series/parallel switch kicked in and I went "Whoa!!" and hung on to that
wheel as the acceleration tried to rip it from my grasp. When we are all
dialed in this thing is definitely going to blow some minds. Even my own!
Roderick
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2004 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: "Sucking Amps" was the best EV show ever!
>
> >
> >Day late dollar short
>
> Oh well.....
>
> > It's been tripple wide #40 chain for 2 weeks now.
> >That's why we broke the half shaft. Our weak links are now outside of
> >the box.
> >
> > Does #40 tripple wide industrial chain survive at 10,000 lbs of
> >tension???? it's rated to 11,000 with a yeild about 5X that on fresh
> >chain.
>
> Motorcycle chain is much stronger than industrial chain.
>
> I was thinking about a pair of twin 630 chains on each side. You
> buy #60 industrial twin sprockets and machine 1/8" inch off the inside of
> each sprocket. This will allow two #630 motorcycle chains to fit
> side-by-side (with the master links facing outward.)
>
> I don't know what the space limitations are, but at least 14
teeth
> on the drive sprocket would be prudent. Use O-ring style chain.
>
> Each single row of # 630 has the strength of your #40 triple-row
> industrial chain.
>
> You can do something very similar with #530 motorcycle chain
since
> you are cramped for space.
>
> When I looked at the rear drive components in the video, I felt
> there was little hope that they would take the torque.
>
> You have to figure that the down force on the tires will be MORE
> than the entire weight of the van. (As the van squats, and then rotates
> forward, the rotational inertia of the van, along with the entire weight
of
> the van, pushes down on the rear tires.) The max coefficient of friction
on
> the track is very nearly 3.0. Thus, the max torque (before slippage) on
the
> 24" diameter rear tires is quite likely to peak out at a bit more than
> three times the weight of the van.
>
> I don't remember what the van weighs, but I seem to remember
> something like 5,000 pounds. This means that you could see as much as
> 15,000 ft-lbs total rear torque with everything set to get a primo launch
> off the line. If it divides evenly (it may not) this is 7,500 ft-lbs per
> side. You are going to have a tough time finding IRS components to take
> this much torque. Perhaps something from a large truck.
>
> Looking at the electrical side, there isn't much chance of
hitting
> the traction limit with a vehicle this heavy. You aren't going to be able
> to spin the tires on the launch unless the truck goes on a serious diet.
>
> In the mean time....
>
> Just eye-balling what you have for CV joints, I would guess that
> they will take about 1,000 ft-lbs (each) before something fails. (VERY
> rough guess.) With a 3.75 ratio, this works out to 266 ft-lbs on each
> motor. Dial in the Zilla motor amps to what the chart says will make 266
> ft-lbs and go racing. It should hang together.
>
> You might replace the key stock with "maraging steel". Of course,
> something else will fail, but the key won't break again. :^)
>
> Again, assuming the van weighs 5000 lbs, you would be wise in
> redesigning the drive box to allow a greater final drive ratio. I'd guess
> 4.5:1. You want to have the motors spinning very near max RPM when you
> reach your 100 MPH goal. If you gear for max RPM at the finish line, you
> will get the best possible launch torque.
>
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In light of the news (to me) that the soleq company is gone, does
anyone have a manual for the soleq charger that is in my 1980 jet
industries
ford Courier conversion?
The charger is listed as model SVC-120-2K-60-12
(the label says 120V 60hz 20amp input, 120v & 12v output)
thanks
jolly roger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, If I made a copy and put it on my own personal
> web server for my own personal access to it...
Sort of like post on the web your credit card number
with a note: People, this is *my* card, don't charge on it.
FWIW, If anyone has open access to your personal server,
it is no longer considered personal one by lawyers.
I have been lectured on this this.
Only if you make it *no way* for others to make use of info on
your server (you use it as remote storage for PC backup for
example), it is different story.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
