EV Digest 3849
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) new SF EAA chapter meets Saturday
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Saft Ni-Cad dying?
by Matt Trevaskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: actuations of brake/res; now arc suppr. in vac. sys.
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) 144V and 1231C
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wham, Bam...Thanks, I think
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: The Prius that Shook the World
by "John Whitfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 144V and 1231C
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: 144V and 1231C
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Who handles NEDRA tech questions for new builders????
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Tranny Off Progress Report
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Adapter Questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Dog clutches
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) New Batteries not so new
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: New Batteries not so new
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New Batteries not so new
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: New Batteries not so new
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Silicon Valley EAA Chapter Rally 2004 images
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: New Batteries not so new
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) New Beetle Conversion Web Update
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Fwd: New Batteries not so new
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) analog optoisolators
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) 34XCD Dimensions
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: New Batteries not so new
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
You’re invited to the inaugural meeting of the
Electric Auto Association’s San Francisco chapter:
Saturday, October 16
12 noon to 2 p.m.
847 Haight Street (between Divisadero and Scott)
The EAA is an educational, support and advocacy group
for the promotion of electric cars. Electric cars
provide emission-free personal transportation using
electricity, not fossil fuels. Come hear how you can
drive a quiet, non-polluting car without gas or oil.
Two electric cars will be available for rides:
- Toyota RAV 4 EV
- Ford Escort station wagon electric conversion
Plus:
- A demonstration of at-home charging.
- A report on the successful Greenpeace and
JumpstartFord campaign to save Th!nk City electric
cars.
- PV/EV: Power your car from solar panels on your
home.
The meeting is open to all and free of charge. EAA
Members encouraged. AVCON or SPI charging available.
Transit: MUNI 6, 7, 24, 71, N Judah
For more information, call Marc Geller at
415-861-7278.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe,
I think that you are right... it does feel just like eco mode, it will run
at about 35km/h, turn on the fault light and as soon as I release the
accelerator (for a corner or junction etc.) it stops.
The controller was showing a temperature of 33 degrees C (after about 5
minutes) which did seem a bit higher than normal. Will monitor this more
closely.
At least I don't need to spend circa 1200 euro/$ on new batteries! Phew!
(Just maybe 800 on a new ECU!)
(Thanks to Rod too)
Matt
> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:05:01 +0200
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Saft Ni-Cad dying?
>
> Seems you are seeing like an overtemp controller problem which enabled fault
> protection, looks like same result than eco mode (35km/h max with reduced
> acceleration)
> Don't worry about that until controller stay always at this low performances
> level, i already seen this symptom coming and disapearing itself quickly on
> one scooter, i was on the way to test/replace excitation mosfet but problem
> dispeared itself during monitoring ride.
>
> Philippe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
> I still say that adjustability in the square D switch
> is the big kahuna here.
> Amazing; I'm scouting for the info on that dang
> diode setup to prevent arcing (because I need to
> install it too), and can't find it anywhere! You are
> correct. There are two diodes involved in the system.
> Let's see if by re-labeling the send, we can get Lee
> or someone to remind us...
Hi Bob,
Lots of hysteresis is a good thing in your vac line to keep the cycling to a
reasonable level. The square D is one way to get it. Unfortunately I can't
afford the space. I haven't done this quite yet, but here's what I have in
mind.
Use two of the little switches from EV Parts.
(http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=82&product_id=1577)
They have NO and NC contacts and have an adjustable set point. Use one to
switch on at 10" and the other to switch off at 20" (or whatever pressures
you want). I forget how many amps the contacts can handle, but it's not
much. Use them to drive a pump relay. Makes for a very compact and
reasonably priced system.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lynn,
Good questions and answers and thanks for bringing this subject up. I have
more questions then answers if you or someone can help out.
I just installed a new set of 8VGC-HCs in my car two months ago. These are
the blue tops and I'm running 144 volts.
The range is aweful. I'm lucky if I can get 20 miles out of them. Maybe they
need a bit of break in period first. I did check them with the volt meter
and they all seem to be pretty equal. But I may go back again. As I recall
After charging they seem to get up to about 9.3 volts and they seem to need
a charge at 8.4 since the performance seems to lack at that level. Not a
wide margin. Not sure what the ending charge should be but 168 sticks in my
mind.
I asked this question before but what are people using to charge these
batteries. The last time this was discussed Rich's charger was recommended
and an inrush current of 16 amps was recommended. I can get my K&W up to 12
amps and the circuit trips at 13 or 14 so is 12 amps OK or will the
batteries start to sulfate if I don't shake them down with 16 amps. And what
is the break in period? As far as range. I know my brakes aren't dragging
since the car seems to coast forever. I count on coasting to get as much as
I can with the limited range the car seems to have.
Thanks
Chip Gribben
On 10/12/04 2:30 PM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:39:12 -0600
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
>
> An ongoing question. I am now in the middle a science experiment to
> answer these questions:
> All miles were on the same commute 43 miles to work, recharge, 43 mile
> home recharge etc. (with a little variation as you can expect commuting)
>
> Which is better, US Battery 8VGC's or US Battery 8VGC-HC?
>
> Answer: The 8VGC gave me 12,300 miles, the 8VGC-HC gave me 14,100
> miles. Pound for pound the same milage, but the -HC leaked something
> awful and I had massive acid build up in the battery boxes (and
> continual odor). Probabally something to do with the higher level of
> acid to cover the expanded plates, without increasing the case height.
> I would recommend the 8VGC over the 8VGC-HC's.
>
> Which is better, US Battery 8VGC's or Trojan T-825?
>
> Now running the T-825's and have 6,400 miles on them. No issues so far,
> but then the US8VGC were good at 6000 miles too.
> An answer to this question should be available next March (the time
> where I should surpass the 8VGC milage)
>
> When the T-825's can no longer make my commute, I will be changing the
> car over to 108 V system using T125. So around spring time, 2006, I
> will have an answer to the your question backed up with real world data.
>
> General advice on the list is that 6 volters give longer life than 8V.
>
>
> Lynn Adams
>
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm planning to initially install a string of 12 12V Lead-acid batteries for
a 144V system, using a Curtis 1231C controller. I know that the batteries
initially get charged to 13.2V each, which is more than the 144V max for
which the 1231C is rated. Should I drop to 11 batteries, or will the 1231C
be able to handle the overvoltage? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I might have a 'Dub adapter.
I offered it to someone this AM, but lets see if he bites. Keep it
under 2000 amps on those VW transaxles, though :)
Seth
On Oct 11, 2004, at 10:42 PM, michael bearden wrote:
Well, my questions about what to do about parts for the next EV got
answered today when a Toy pig-up turned in front of me at a traffic
light as I rolled through the intersection inWATTABMR at close to the
40mph speed that is posted. It pasted the Toy pretty well, and I
won't be driving the BMW anywhere again, but no one was hurt. I
actually didn't feel any real impact, and I know it hit fairly hard.
That BavarianMotorVerks makes stout cars! No one else stopped, so I
don't have any witnesses to the fact that I didn't run a red light, (
and the other driver claims he had the arrow to turn) so I think the
insurance companies are going to say "It's on you." My loss is my
daily driver for now, but looking on the bright side, now I have
everything I need to make a new EV-batteries, controller, charger,
regs, DC/DC and a GE motor that is just nicely broken in after the
last four years of driving (on the 16th of this month).
Anybody got a VW transaxle adaptor gathering dust?
Michael B.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Couldn't find the book, but since you asked for any leads, I did some poking around
and found that the back matter of "The Toyota Way: 14 Management Principles From The
World's Greatest Manufacturer" (ISBN: 0071392319) includes a reference to "Itazaki,
Hideshi. The Prius That Shook the World: How Toyota Developed the World's First
Mass-Production Hybrid Vehicle. Translated by A. Yamada and M. Ishidawa." Apparently
the book has never been assigned an ISBN number under that title, so I'm guessing that
it's not generally available in English. A place called "John's Used Books" had a hit
from a search engine, but nothing when I checked. My guess is that they only had one
copy and sold it.
If you want to keep trying, I'd suggest trying http://www.usedbookseach.co.uk from
time to time with "prius toyota shook" as the search criteria in the title. It takes
a while to run because they search multiple used book dealers for the title and some
of the searches run slowly. There are a few glitches in the system, but it's better
than trying to deal with a dozen different sites on your own.
Sorry I couldn't find anything more substantial.
Hope this helps,
John Whitfield
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Jerry Jorgenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: The Prius that Shook the World
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 13:04:07 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Thanks Jerry.
>
> Hard to get, may be an understatement. I find no mention of this book through Google
> or
> Amazon.
>
> Loved “the car that could” about the EV-1.
>
> Please help with any leads you find for "The Prius that Shook the World".
>
> Lee
>
> --- Jerry Jorgenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:19:44 -0700 (PDT)
> > Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Not usually a fan of H2 but this is neat.
> > > High school? How embarrassing to the GMs of the world.
> >
> > Big companies do not allow projects to fail. New things often don't work,
> > so it's highly unlikely that a big company will try something new.
> > However, no one cares if a school project doesn't work.
> >
> > Toyota is an exception, but before Toyota developed the Prius they were in
> > some serious trouble. Their Japanese market share had sunk (from about 70%
> > to about 25%) and they were getting very few younger buyers. So they took
> > a gamble (around 1993) on developing a 21st century car with absolutely no
> > design limits, and they gathered a team of some of their first string
> > engineers to do so. There is even a book about it "The Prius that Shook
> > the World". It's hard to get, but I was able to borrow a copy.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > --
> > Jerry Jorgenson
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.j3iss.com/
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
>
--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:24 PM 10/12/04 -0600, you wrote:
I'm planning to initially install a string of 12 12V Lead-acid batteries for
a 144V system, using a Curtis 1231C controller. I know that the batteries
initially get charged to 13.2V each, which is more than the 144V max for
which the 1231C is rated. Should I drop to 11 batteries, or will the 1231C
be able to handle the overvoltage? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
The 1231 is set up for up to 144V NOMINAL pack voltage. This includes room
for the normal overvoltage of a fully charged pack.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:59 AM 10/12/04 -0700, you wrote:
Hello,
I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I need
new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries. So
am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will both
battery packs last the same number of cycles?
Are all of your other components good to 144V? The 6V pack will give you
more range. The 8V pack will give you more top speed. They should last
about the same.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Shari!
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Electro Automotive
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:12 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 144V and 1231C
At 03:24 PM 10/12/04 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm planning to initially install a string of 12 12V Lead-acid batteries
for
>a 144V system, using a Curtis 1231C controller. I know that the batteries
>initially get charged to 13.2V each, which is more than the 144V max for
>which the 1231C is rated. Should I drop to 11 batteries, or will the 1231C
>be able to handle the overvoltage? Thanks.
>
>Bill Dennis
The 1231 is set up for up to 144V NOMINAL pack voltage. This includes room
for the normal overvoltage of a fully charged pack.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:51 PM 10/11/2004, you wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I'm getting into the process of elimination on various project ideas of
late. Who can I direct specific questions to regarding what qualifies a
vehicle to be classed one way or another?
I'm the National Technical Director for NEDRA. Ask me at:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
My goal is to build some sort of two-wheeled vehicle that can be safely
riden and raced without getting the black flag during tech inspection at the
first event I show up at.
Good idea.
I also have some questions about specific building techniques and component
placement that I would like some reassurance on before I commit hard earned
time, materials and hours of labor.
Surprisingly, motorcycles have the fewest restrictions. The only
restriction on the frame is that is not be a bicycle frame.
A few oft-missed requirements:
1) Lanyard disconnect required.
2) No bicycle parts allowed.
3) Driver's hands and feet must remain on bars and pegs to operate all
required controls (including safety disconnect.)
4) Don't forget an indicator for a "live" vehicle. (Can be a red triangle
on the key.)
5) Steering damper is required for fast bikes. (Strongly advised for all
bikes.)
6) 2" ground clearance minimum.
7) Chain guard required. (Check NHRA rulebook for specifics on placement
and thickness.)
8) 1.5" travel minimum on front suspension.
9) Rear fender required. (Check NHRA rulebook for specifics on size.)
10) Main fuse sized to protect the safety contactor from overload.
11) Battery box/holddowns must be designed to withstand 8 g's horizontal, 4
g's vertical.
12) Plasma shield on motor required.
13) Brakes required on both tires.
Bill Dube'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First a little progress report on my conversion, and then questions
about an adapter.
It was a struggle, but I finally got the transmission off the motor
on my 911 donor car. It is an unusual design that apparently Porsche
didn't do for many years: An external clutch spring, twin clutch
release arms, and the throwout bearing attaches to the pressure
plate. Now that I have done it once I could do it quickly, but since
it was contrary to my experience with other cars it took me a while
to figure it out. You remove the engine to transmission bolts, yet it
doesn't slide apart because the release fork and throwout bearing are
holding things together.
First, you have to remove the starter. Then you have to build 3
little spacers. I used 1/2 inch pipe, and cut off a thickness that
permitted 3 threads of a 6x12 hex bolt with washer to show. I then
cut off one side, making it into a "C" shape. Through the starter
hole, these were bolted into the threaded rivets. Take care to not
drop them down the hole! The "C" shaped spacer allowed the rivet to
be pulled up into the middle of the "C." This relieves the pressure
from the pressure plate.
For some reason, my manual said to rotate the throwout bearing
through 90 degrees via another hole. I can see no reason for doing
this, except maybe to prove the pressure was relieved.
Take care with the external clutch release lever. The external spring
(and the pressure plate if you made a mistake) can put it under
considerable force. Remove the little external coiled spring from the
second, little, lower release lever (not the "C" shaped spring on the
big lever!). Turn the adjusting bolt to free tension on the little
lever. Remove the circlip below the little release lever. Take care
to not damage the rubber seal between the big and little clutch
release levers, and remove the lower lever. Now the clutch release
fork is free to rotate out of the way, and the tranny can be pulled
off the motor. Take care to not let the tranny hang by the input
shaft.
The design is a bit different from what I have seen before. As
mentioned before, the throwout bearing attaches to the pressure
plate. The starter gear ring looks like it bolts to the pressure
plate; the outside of the flywheel is smooth. The pressure plate
looks very heavy, I'm sure I can get a lighter one.
Next post will have some questions on an adapter for this.
=====
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking at my motor and tranny and thinking about hooking up
the electric motor.
>From what I've read, I should be sure to record the flywheel to motor
face distance. Then next I should attach the flywheel to the electric
motor, to see how thick the adapter/spacer ring needs to be.
This might be a wild idea, but what about machining a new flywheel
that is 1/2 of the taperlock coupler? This should save some weight,
be stronger, and might save a little overall length.
Here's a similar and less wild thought: It seems instead of doing a
conventional motor adapter plate, I could machine a bigger end plate
(is that what you call them?) for the electric motor. This would save
a bit of weight and be stronger. Are there any gotchas there? Or can
I just take off the motor endplate (I have a Kostov) and replace it
with one I have machined?
Luckily, the motor does a piston fit into the tranny to center
things. Likewise (if I do a more conventional motor adapter plate),
the Kostov had a raised area around the output shaft to center
things. So it looks like if I use a lathe, and get these two
diameters right, I'm centered. The bolts are a bit loose in their
holes and not critical for centering, nor are there any locating
pins.
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon, this is the same method that i have seen on Gear Vendors OD units. The
shift is made by pushing the shift button which activates a linear motor
that loads the shift lever via a spring and slot on the linkage. As long as
you have your foot on the throttle keeping the tranny loaded, it doesn't
shift. As soon as you "blip" the throttle to remove the torque, bang! it
shifts. Put one on a buddies MH back in `97, still working perfectly and no
unusual wear. Good suggestion!! David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Dog clutches
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:46:06 -0700, Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >The advice I received from Autotech was to use a button on the
> >shifter to blank the pot during shifting. This kit uses much larger
> >shafts with closer ratio gears. It converts it to a six speed also.
> >You mentioned a bus ring and pinion. This is a Corrado FWD transaxle.
> >We already have the quaife diff installed.
>
> Standard technique on a racing dog gearbox is to undercut each dog by
> about a degree so that torque forces them fully engaged. This also
> permits an extremely rapid shift. The technique involves pre-tensioning
> the shifter with your foot or hand and then winging the kill switch to
> cause a very brief interruption of torque. The same technique should work
> with electric drive.
>
> Can you program the controller for zero acceleration ramp? That would
> seem vital for blanking the pot fast enough.
>
> I can envision a very fast setup. A spring in the linkage strong enough
> to effect the shift stores energy. As the shifter handle is pulled
> against the spring, it hits a microswitch at the end of the travel which
> interrupts power. The shift is then spring driven. A switch on the other
> end (tranny side) of the spring restores power when the shift is finished.
> This would not only be lightning fast, it would also guarantee the dogs
> are fully engaged before power is re-applied.
>
> John
>
> ---
> John De Armond
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I just took delivery of 20 US125. I was told
that they were all manufactured in October so it would
be a nice "matched" (as much as can be) set.
Two things I noticed:
1) The date codes didn't match. 4 were Oct. 2 were
Sept. and 14 were JULY!
2) The specific gravities matched the suspected
dates. The October batteries were all up in the 1.290
+0.000/-0.005 range (yes I know that's very high but I
can't change the data!) The September units were
1.260 +/- 0.000. The JULY units were around 1.230
+0.010/-0.005.
Clearly this is not a matched set. I'm going to call
them tomorrow to try and get a matched set. Do you
guys think I'm being unreasonable? I've put a lot of
time and money into this project and I feel like I
don't want to let this slide.
You can see some pictures and the data here:
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=18355
The data is on the second page so you'll have to find
how to get to the second page. Note the above link is
all one line. As I compose this message it looks
broken into two lines.
TIA,
Shannon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charge them individually before you take SG readings.
The older ones have been sitting on the shelf undergoing a self discharge
process.
My experience: I got 30 prevailers last year that had three different date
codes. When I capacity tested them, there was 30% difference in capacity
within the lot using the same tester. We rejected the lot and got 30 new
ones that matched in date that made 105% of rated capacity.
It pays to be able to test them to see what actually got delivered.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 10:45 PM
Subject: New Batteries not so new
> Well I just took delivery of 20 US125. I was told
> that they were all manufactured in October so it would
> be a nice "matched" (as much as can be) set.
>
> Two things I noticed:
>
> 1) The date codes didn't match. 4 were Oct. 2 were
> Sept. and 14 were JULY!
>
> 2) The specific gravities matched the suspected
> dates. The October batteries were all up in the 1.290
> +0.000/-0.005 range (yes I know that's very high but I
> can't change the data!) The September units were
> 1.260 +/- 0.000. The JULY units were around 1.230
> +0.010/-0.005.
>
> Clearly this is not a matched set. I'm going to call
> them tomorrow to try and get a matched set. Do you
> guys think I'm being unreasonable? I've put a lot of
> time and money into this project and I feel like I
> don't want to let this slide.
>
> You can see some pictures and the data here:
>
> http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=18355
>
> The data is on the second page so you'll have to find
> how to get to the second page. Note the above link is
> all one line. As I compose this message it looks
> broken into two lines.
>
> TIA,
>
> Shannon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I just took delivery of 20 US125.
I was told that they were all manufactured in October so it would be a
nice "matched" (as much as can be) set.
The date codes didn't match.
I'm going to call them tomorrow to try and get a matched set.
Do you guys think I'm being unreasonable?
Not at all! If you blindly ordered some batteries and then were
disappointed when they arrived with differing date codes, that'd be one
thing. Being as you addressed this issue BEFORE the sale with
assurrances given by them, it is very reasonable for you to insist that
they deliver what they promised.
You did your due dilligence and they just made a mistake. They need to
fix their error.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what test gear did you use ?
just out of interest
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well I just took delivery of 20 US125. I was told
that they were all manufactured in October so it would
be a nice "matched" (as much as can be) set.
Two things I noticed:
1) The date codes didn't match. 4 were Oct. 2 were
Sept. and 14 were JULY!
2) The specific gravities matched the suspected
dates. The October batteries were all up in the 1.290
+0.000/-0.005 range (yes I know that's very high but I
can't change the data!) The September units were
1.260 +/- 0.000. The JULY units were around 1.230
+0.010/-0.005.
Clearly this is not a matched set. I'm going to call
them tomorrow to try and get a matched set. Do you
guys think I'm being unreasonable? I've put a lot of
time and money into this project and I feel like I
don't want to let this slide.
You can see some pictures and the data here:
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=18355
The data is on the second page so you'll have to find
how to get to the second page. Note the above link is
all one line. As I compose this message it looks
broken into two lines.
TIA,
Shannon
---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In my Electro Metro and now my E-Jeep (96' Geo Tracker) I got about 10k with
8Ver's and 14k with 6Ver's. Theoretically they should be the same since it's
the same number of plates divided up differently. But I think it's due to
the fact that with increased Ah's 220 vs 165 the 6V'ers have an easier life
with the same motor loading.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 1:39 PM
Subject: RE: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
> An ongoing question. I am now in the middle a science experiment to
> answer these questions:
> All miles were on the same commute 43 miles to work, recharge, 43 mile
> home recharge etc. (with a little variation as you can expect commuting)
>
> Which is better, US Battery 8VGC's or US Battery 8VGC-HC?
>
> Answer: The 8VGC gave me 12,300 miles, the 8VGC-HC gave me 14,100
> miles. Pound for pound the same milage, but the -HC leaked something
> awful and I had massive acid build up in the battery boxes (and
> continual odor). Probabally something to do with the higher level of
> acid to cover the expanded plates, without increasing the case height.
> I would recommend the 8VGC over the 8VGC-HC's.
>
> Which is better, US Battery 8VGC's or Trojan T-825?
>
> Now running the T-825's and have 6,400 miles on them. No issues so far,
> but then the US8VGC were good at 6000 miles too.
> An answer to this question should be available next March (the time
> where I should surpass the 8VGC milage)
>
> When the T-825's can no longer make my commute, I will be changing the
> car over to 108 V system using T125. So around spring time, 2006, I
> will have an answer to the your question backed up with real world data.
>
> General advice on the list is that 6 volters give longer life than 8V.
>
>
> Lynn Adams
>
> See my 100% electric car at http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/379.html
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Patrick Maston
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 10:59 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I need
> new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
> 6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries. So
> am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
> 120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will both
> battery packs last the same number of cycles?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patrick
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have uploaded the images I have of the Silicon Valley EAA
Chapter Rally on Oct 9 2004. If you have pictures, please
contact me offline.
The page is rough and not finished, but you can at least
see the fun we had.
http://brucedp04.150m.com/sveaa04/
Mirror site
http://brucedp04.0catch.com/sveaa04/
=====
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great web sit , ( why can't I do that:-) . What was the voltage on them , ?
I've had this happen to me a few times as the battery store in my town is
very supportive of me but they don't always seem to know what there doing .
I now tell them ahead of time I'm not in any hurry and could I get them all
with the same birth days at the same time . That being said I have never had
any trouble with golf cart batteries even with mixed dates. After over 100
golf cart batteries I've never had one go bad in less that 2 years, in the
end you get a few dropping out , they all go fast in the end with a few that
seem to hold up a little better. Do they come with a warrantee ? Braking
them in is important , What kind of charger are you going to use? I drove my
Mercury Lynx 90 miles one time with the same set up ( not fast 35 to 40mph)
. Are you in Florida?
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 12:45 AM
Subject: New Batteries not so new
> Well I just took delivery of 20 US125. I was told
> that they were all manufactured in October so it would
> be a nice "matched" (as much as can be) set.
>
> Two things I noticed:
>
> 1) The date codes didn't match. 4 were Oct. 2 were
> Sept. and 14 were JULY!
>
> 2) The specific gravities matched the suspected
> dates. The October batteries were all up in the 1.290
> +0.000/-0.005 range (yes I know that's very high but I
> can't change the data!) The September units were
> 1.260 +/- 0.000. The JULY units were around 1.230
> +0.010/-0.005.
>
> Clearly this is not a matched set. I'm going to call
> them tomorrow to try and get a matched set. Do you
> guys think I'm being unreasonable? I've put a lot of
> time and money into this project and I feel like I
> don't want to let this slide.
>
> You can see some pictures and the data here:
>
> http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=18355
>
> The data is on the second page so you'll have to find
> how to get to the second page. Note the above link is
> all one line. As I compose this message it looks
> broken into two lines.
>
> TIA,
>
> Shannon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have put a few neat things up on the web site:
* 3d CAD layouts of the front engine compartment showing general layouts of
the components
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_Layout.html
* a great big monster "TO DO" list of all the work completed, in-progress
and to be done.
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_HowTo.html
Check it out - the CAD stuff is fun to play with and look at. All helpful
feedback is appreciated.
thanks
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shannon
Excellent link, great photos! My first project was supposed to be a 914, but in the
Northeast you
just can't find one that's not a rust bucket (without spending big bux or flying to CA
or FLA.)
Now I'm working on getting a 944 donor.
How many batteries were you going to fit in that box? Did you buy the premade battery
boxes from
Electro Auto? Any estimate on the final weight of your EV?
Dave Cover
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Well I just took delivery of 20 US125.
>
> You can see some pictures and the data here:
>
> http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=18355
>
>
> Shannon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, I would need to get a booster transformer for my Russco charger,
which is for 120V.
Patrick
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/12/04 6:13:52 PM >>>
At 09:59 AM 10/12/04 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I
need
>new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
>6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries.
So
>am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
>120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will
both
>battery packs last the same number of cycles?
Are all of your other components good to 144V? The 6V pack will give
you
more range. The 8V pack will give you more top speed. They should
last
about the same.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone
831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since
1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick Maston wrote:
Hello,
I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I need
new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries. So
am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will both
battery packs last the same number of cycles?
I'm not the most experienced here, but it seems to me like I see
a lot of anecdotes where the range tables vs. lead weight
only seem to be true for the best batteries.
I seem to see a lot of 8v module cars on the tradin post that
are getting only 50-70% of their expected range, as compared
to cars using 6v cells. I'm starting to wonder if the 8v modules
actually under-perform w.r.t. their listed specs.
I have certainly seen this on my car too.
Most Solectria owners using east-penn gell batteries see
around 40 miles USABLE range. I bought my car with AGM
and 16 or 17 miles usable range. I got NEW floodies, and saw
range climb only to about 22. (Thats around 25 AH from 85AH rated cells)
Is it possible that I'd be able to get the expected 45AH out
of the ~75AH rated east-penn gells... instead of the 25AH I get
from G24 (85AH) trojans?
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would start here,
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1361.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone with Exide 34XCD batteries tell me their actual dimensions?
I've seen various numbers on the Internet that vary by up to 1/4 inch, and
since my space is tight, that +/- 1/4-inch per battery difference could have
an effect on how I design my battery boxes. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The best way to buy batteries, is that you write up a set of specifications,
submitting for a bid.
When I presented the thick stack of specifications, which I form using a
standard specification writing and terminology, You can see examples of
this writing style by downloading in your search engine "specifications
writing",
the sales type persons did not understand what I was talking about. Only
one gave me a 800 number to a battery engineer of which understood the
science.
I submitted the battery specs. by e-mail and received a response in the same
day.
In my specifications, I listed the:
1. The maximum and minimum physical size of the
battery.
2. The maximum and minimum Ampere-Hour.
3. The minimum Ampere rating.
4. The minimum specific gravity.
5. The maximum resistance.
6. The maximum battery or cell weight.
7. The maximum volts drop at a specific load and
time.
8. The style of battery connectors.
9. The minimum hardness of the battery connectors.
(this can be presented by the minimum torque
value of the connectors as so they shall not
distorted by bolting on battery connectors.
10. The continous ampere rating of the battery
connectors. (I had larger post diameter install
on both negative and positive post, which took
only the positive side connectors)
11. Type of carrying handle you want.
12. The battery also shall be balance in with 0.01
volt of each other battery in set.
13. The specific gravity to be 0.001 of each other
battery in set.
14. The manufacture date shall have the same date.
(I specified same day and not less than 14 days
delivery time to me from that said date.)
15. Provide extra batteries in shipment, as where
any become damage or if any one does not meet
the above specifications during a voltage test,
a specific gravity test or a load test on
recept of batteries.
16. If the performance of any one battery during
running test under the warrenty period, is not
equal to the other batteries in the same group
shall be replaced at no cost.
There was only one company that would accept my specifications, which was
the TROJAN BATTERY COMPANY.
I order 30 batteries from them. They sent me 50 batteries, which is a
pellet size. They truck directly to my house, and waited until I inspected
and tested the batteries.
Only had to replace only two out of the group. The voltage read 6.33 on 28
batteries and 2 read 6.34 volts.
Today after 4 years, I still have only 0.01 voltage difference between 20
batteries, 0.02 voltage difference between 8 batteries and 0.03 on two
batteries.
As a EV driver, you have a tighter specs. than a person with one battery.
All batteries shall
perform equally in a group. If any one battery does not perform the same as
the others, than it
shall be replace.
Notice, I used the word SHALL in the above example specifications. Do not
used the word WILL, which is the same thing as say probly.
In specifications writing, if you are on a different page, DO NOT WRITE SAY
REFER TO THE ABOVE
OR PAGE AND PARAGRAPH, Write the info over again.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11:50 PM
Subject: Re: New Batteries not so new
> Charge them individually before you take SG readings.
>
> The older ones have been sitting on the shelf undergoing a self discharge
> process.
>
> My experience: I got 30 prevailers last year that had three different date
> codes. When I capacity tested them, there was 30% difference in capacity
> within the lot using the same tester. We rejected the lot and got 30 new
> ones that matched in date that made 105% of rated capacity.
>
> It pays to be able to test them to see what actually got delivered.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "EVDL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 10:45 PM
> Subject: New Batteries not so new
>
>
> > Well I just took delivery of 20 US125. I was told
> > that they were all manufactured in October so it would
> > be a nice "matched" (as much as can be) set.
> >
> > Two things I noticed:
> >
> > 1) The date codes didn't match. 4 were Oct. 2 were
> > Sept. and 14 were JULY!
> >
> > 2) The specific gravities matched the suspected
> > dates. The October batteries were all up in the 1.290
> > +0.000/-0.005 range (yes I know that's very high but I
> > can't change the data!) The September units were
> > 1.260 +/- 0.000. The JULY units were around 1.230
> > +0.010/-0.005.
> >
> > Clearly this is not a matched set. I'm going to call
> > them tomorrow to try and get a matched set. Do you
> > guys think I'm being unreasonable? I've put a lot of
> > time and money into this project and I feel like I
> > don't want to let this slide.
> >
> > You can see some pictures and the data here:
> >
> > http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=18355
> >
> > The data is on the second page so you'll have to find
> > how to get to the second page. Note the above link is
> > all one line. As I compose this message it looks
> > broken into two lines.
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Shannon
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
