EV Digest 3851
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Active Wheel-weight
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Insurance idea: drive more, pay more
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) waiting for word of Buckeye Bullet speed trial
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Odd Brake behavior questions
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Insurance idea: drive more, pay more
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fwd: Buckeye Bullet sets World Record!!!!
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Buckeye Bullet news!!
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: 34XCD
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) LiIon price increase -- a result of new regulations?
by Gary Graunke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fwd: Michelin Active Wheel
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Heater
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fwd: Michelin Active Wheel
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Adapter Questions
by "evranger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: New Batteries not so new
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 34XCD Dimensions
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) A lawyer, a.k.a. engineer
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Another Prius article, closer to the EV target
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Vego 450 IQ Controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: LiIon price increase -- a result of new regulations?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Vego 450 IQ Controller
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: Heater
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: 34XCD Dimensions
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Charging 8VGC-HC
by Nawaz Qureshi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Vego 450 IQ Controller
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Heater
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Heater
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
What fun. Thanks. And thanks for not getting into the aerodynamics of the moving
suspension parts.
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee Dekker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > A good point, but I think its sprung weight. Anything moving
> > with the suspension is sprung weight. All else is unsprung.
>
> Nope, it is almost exactly the opposite.
>
> A simple way to consider it is this:
>
> Envision a vehicle with one wheel slowly driving over a 6inch high
> obstacle. The wheel moves up the entire 6 inches; the vehicle body
> doesn't move up/down at all. The wheel is 100% unsprung weight, the
> vehicle body is 100% sprung weight. Anything between the wheel and
> vehicle body moves vertically some distance between 0 and 6 inches; if
> it travels 3 inches up when the wheel moves 6 inches, then it is 50%
> unsprung.
>
> This is just a first approximation, it gets more complicated when you
> consider things such as shocks and springs, one end of which moves a
> considerable distance with the wheel, while the other end remains
> 'stationary' with the vehicle body. (One of the motivations, aside from
> fashion, for inverted forks on motorcycles is to reduce the unsprung
> weight by reducing the weight of the part of the fork that moves up and
> down with the wheel.)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> If the insurance co's want to
> do us ALL a favor, they can go after the @#$% uninsured driver!
Naw, that's too simple and does away with one of their main reasons for
charging us more.
Kind of like conductive charging, eh?
In Iceland, if you go drive ten years without an accident, you get free
insurance. Would you believe that there are LOTS of REALLY careful,
considerate drivers over there?
Too bad it makes way too much sense to fly here in the US.
Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...well, it's been about 2 1/2 hours since the Buckeye Bullet was to makes
it's world speed record run at Bonneville today...
there's no news expected on their website
(http://www.roadtobonneville.com/latestnews.html) until this evening, but I
was hoping someone on the list has some info...
anyone know the lastest news? this is almost as bad as waiting for news about
Gone Postal's first day on the track at Vegas!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes but the distance from the axle to the rear of the transmission is
still close to two feet (24") on the 79-85 models and even more on the
older version.
Mike G .
I used to work on these vehicles when I first got started as a mechanic.
Dave wrote:
Here is a link to tech illustration of the GMC front wheel drive setup
which used the Toronado drivetrain. It looks like the engine is set
about centered over the driveshafts.
http://www.gmcmotorhome.net/pages/engine.html
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roderick Wilde"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
The next time you folks see one of these Cadillac Eldorados or Olds
Tornados notice the length of the hood. It was not a styling
decision! The transmission is in front of the differential and the
motor is in front of the transmission. Now go to www.suckamps.com and
notice the distance from the centerline of the front axles to the
front of the vehicle. You will not need a measuring device to tell
you that it is not feasible in your wildest imagination. It would be
far easier to stuff an Allison V12 in a Nash Metropolitan :-)
PS: For those not familiar with the famous Allison V12 engine there
is a nice picture of this 1710 cubic inch monster at:
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/whoppanz/Dsc01008.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geocities.com/whoppanz/allison&h=680&w=1024&sz=75&tbnid=pFu1UL5r-MEJ:&tbnh=99&tbnw=149&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dallison%2BV12%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 6:51 AM
Subject: Re: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Clevenger"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
That's would be a nice choice. I'm on a Caddy list where a guy is
running
11's with a souped up 500 and the stock tranny. This in a car that's
about
the same weight as GP.
Tim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Solution for "Gone Postal's" broken tranny found
> Maybe a dumb question, but could you use the GM 475 transaxle? I
believe
it
> lived behind 400 HP 455 Oldsmobile and 501 Cadillac engines.
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
winner WINNER WINNER...
Yea if we can find one....this would be really nice.
OK Rich, I'll sniff around here in CT , if one lays, unloved in a
local
junkyard.Or the Bargain News Auto parts dept.
Bob
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--- Begin Message ---
I would bleed the brakes first using this procedure from BMW, This will
require two people;
Connect a pressure bleeder to the master cyl and pressurize it.
open the bleeder screw furthest from the mastercyl and let the fluid
drain through a clear tube ( so you can see the bubbles).
with the bleeder open have the helper in the car pump the brake pedal to
force the air from the system. Repeat this for all the bleeders as
necessary.
One note of caution the brake pedal must be pumped in such a way as not
to suck fluid backwards , this would be counter productive. I suggest a
good idea of time would be a count of "1" while pushing the pedal down
and a count of "5" ( 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) while letting the pedal come to the
top of its travel.
I have used this personally and it works very well especially on
vehicles with ABS brakes.
Mike G.
Paul Wallace wrote:
With all the talk about brakes, I thought I would get in here and ask
a question about the brakes on my truck that I haven't been able to
figure out.
First the setup:
Metricmind self contained vacuum pump, works like a champ
4"diameter by about 6" long PVC vacuum reservoir
Standard Chevy S-10 (-91) vacuum booster and master cylinder
Rear drum, front disk brakes, stock for the 14" original wheels
All pads replaced within the last 20k miles
Rear wheel anti lock system, non functional at this time
Now the problem:
If I hit the brake pedal hard and very suddenly, it seems like I'm
getting no perceptible braking for a little while and the pedal does
not seem to sink down the way I would expect. If I depress the pedal
slowly, then all works as I would expect. If I push the pedal down
slowly but firmly and the truck is traveling along at a good speed,
like 20mph, I can take the pedal all the way to the mechanical stop
without locking the brakes. If I am stopped with the vacuum pump
stopped (system at max vacuum), I can push the brake pedal all the way
to the mechanical stop.
I suspect air in the system somewhere. I had the brake pads and
rotors professionally serviced the last time. I am wondering if they
were successful in bleeding the brakes properly.
Anyone have thoughts on items to check, or should I just expect slow
braking for an about 3k lb vehicle?
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT Nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A guy at work just purchased a new vehicle and in the owners manual it
talks about the computer that monitors and records the number of
passengers and weather they were wearing their seatbelt.
Mike G.
Marvin Campbell wrote:
Bob Rice wrote:
If the insurance co's want to
do us ALL a favor, they can go after the @#$% uninsured driver!
Naw, that's too simple and does away with one of their main reasons for
charging us more.
Kind of like conductive charging, eh?
In Iceland, if you go drive ten years without an accident, you get free
insurance. Would you believe that there are LOTS of REALLY careful,
considerate drivers over there?
Too bad it makes way too much sense to fly here in the US.
Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Envelope-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:31:32 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Giorgio Rizzoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Buckeye Bullet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Buckeye Bullet sets World Record!!!!
X-Original-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Priority: 1
X-CanItPRO-Stream: lists
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at evparts.com
Bonneville International Speedway
Bonneville Salt Flats, UT
October 13th, 2004
The Ohio State University Buckeye Bullet, a vehicle designed, built, and
maintained by OSU students, set the new international land speed (LSR)
record in the E-III category (the top class of electric vehicles) at 271.737
mph (427.225 km/hr) around 3:30pm MT.
The international LSR is set by running a set 1-km course in opposite
directions within the span of sixty minutes. Run-up to the "flying
kilometer" section consists of a three-mile stretch of the salt flats.
After a forward run, the vehicle must complete the flying kilometer in the
reverse direction within 60 minutes.
Today, the Bullet was the first vehicle to line up for the international
record run - the first opportunity at the 2004 World Finals, around 2:30pm.
With driver Roger Schroer of TRC, Inc. at the wheel, the forward run
resulted in a speed of over 267 mph at the end of the measured km, and the
return run was close to 276 mph. The average speed over the kilometer in
both directions was timed at 271.737. These runs eclipse the 245 mph record
previously held by White Lightning in 1999.
The Bullet also holds the U.S. LSR at around 257 mph, set last October 18th,
2003. The Bullet team will attempt to surpass its own U.S. record during
remainder of the World Finals, which last through Saturday, October 16th.
National record attempts are set according to a different set of rules,
which include a 4-hour impound period between runs. The Bullet came close
to re-setting its record last August during SpeedWeek with a forward run
averaging 308 mph, but the return run was foiled by a driveline mechanical
failure.
Go Bucks! Go Fast!
_________________________________________________________
Giorgio Rizzoni
The Ford Motor Company Chair in Electromechanical Systems
Professor of Mechanical and Electrical Engineering
Director, Center for Automotive Research
The Ohio State University
930 Kinnear Road
Columbus, OH 43212
Team website: http://www.buckeyebullet.com/
For daily updates: http://www.roadtobonneville.com/
_________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
all right!!! just got this in email from the Buckeye team!
"hey ho, way to go" and all that...
---begin---
Bonneville International Speedway
Bonneville Salt Flats, UT
October 13th, 2004
The Ohio State University Buckeye Bullet, a vehicle designed, built, and
maintained by OSU students, set the new international land speed (LSR)
record in the E-III category (the top class of electric vehicles) at 271.737
mph (427.225 km/hr) around 3:30pm MT.
The international LSR is set by running a set 1-km course in opposite
directions within the span of sixty minutes. Run-up to the "flying
kilometer" section consists of a three-mile stretch of the salt flats.
After a forward run, the vehicle must complete the flying kilometer in the
reverse direction within 60 minutes.
Today, the Bullet was the first vehicle to line up for the international
record run - the first opportunity at the 2004 World Finals, around 2:30pm.
With driver Roger Schroer of TRC, Inc. at the wheel, the forward run
resulted in a speed of over 267 mph at the end of the measured km, and the
return run was close to 276 mph. The average speed over the kilometer in
both directions was timed at 271.737. These runs eclipse the 245 mph record
previously held by White Lightning in 1999.
The Bullet also holds the U.S. LSR at around 257 mph, set last October 18th,
2003. The Bullet team will attempt to surpass its own U.S. record during
remainder of the World Finals, which last through Saturday, October 16th.
National record attempts are set according to a different set of rules,
which include a 4-hour impound period between runs. The Bullet came close
to re-setting its record last August during SpeedWeek with a forward run
averaging 308 mph, but the return run was foiled by a driveline mechanical
failure.
Go Bucks! Go Fast!
---end---
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, both the XCD (automotive version) and blue top (marine) both have 2
holes down the center that can be used for tie-downs.
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida EAA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 08:31
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 34XCD
Does this battery have the two holes from top to bottom?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend who works for a LiIon battery distributer told me that there
are new regulations for LiIon battery shipping and cell/battery
construction that are going into effect. Many existing suppliers can no
longer ship product as a result.
The story is that this started when a forklift at the LA airport pierced
a pallet of LiIon cells.
Here is a pointer to his company's web page which contains various
documents related to the new regulations.
http://www.nexergy.com/lithium_shipping.html
I have just downloaded the docs myself, and have not read them yet.
Gary
====================================
From: Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: TS Price Increase
ADVERTISEMENT
Just so you know, the price of all Lithium batteries
has started going up. The explaination I've received
from more than one Chinese supplier is "Iraq war" or
increasing petroleum costs have made their raw
materials price skyrocket. Turns out the Li-ion
batteries use lots of petro-chemicals to make :)
-Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Agreed that in general you want less unsprung weight, however I think
you can argue wheels motors would not be too much weight for safe
handling.
Take the Mini Cooper. With its run-flat tires, each wheel and tire
weighs close to 50 pounds! Autocrossers can cut this weight in half
with lighter rims and tires. Suppose you have another 10 pounds or so
per wheel you can save by eliminating driveshafts, and smaller brakes
(regen makes up the difference). Now you have about 35 pounds per
wheel to play with, and still have handling equal to the original
stock car. A geared Lynch/Etek style motor should be able to meet
this weight, and still deliver acceleration equal to a stock Mini.
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One problem with these motor-in-the-wheel solutions: unsprung
> weight!
>
> One of the biggest challenges with tires, wheels and suspension
> components has been keeping the
> weight as low as possible. Even at relatively low speed you can
> lose traction going around a
> corner on a rough road. Shock absorbers have to absorb/overcome the
> inertia of a tire bouncing up
> so the springs can try and push it back down to the ground. And a
> tire has no traction unless it's
> firmly on the ground. By adding the weight of a motor to the wheel
> weight you can compound the
> problem.
>
> Having the motor in the wheel is great for a city bus (or NEV), but
> not a passenger car.
=====
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Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just got my "Harbor Freight" catalouge, and noticed a ceramic heater in it for
$6.49. Maybe a few of those, strategicaly placed and controlled, would make an
interior a little more livable?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Take the Mini Cooper. With its run-flat tires, each wheel and tire
> weighs close to 50 pounds! Autocrossers can cut this weight in half
> with lighter rims and tires. Suppose you have another 10 pounds or so
> per wheel you can save by eliminating driveshafts, and smaller brakes
> (regen makes up the difference). Now you have about 35 pounds per
> wheel to play with, and still have handling equal to the original
> stock car.
I'd say xfer some of that saved weight back to full mechanical brakes
(redundancy in critical systems is Good), but that _still_ leaves a generous
margin... heck, think of all the extra room in the car for batteries!
I'm guessing that Michelin gave it some thought, eh? (actually, I seem to
recall that they are doing some clever in-the-wheel springing, between the
rotor rim and the tire rim, I belive - haven't heard more than the marketing
copy, though... anyone have a first-hand report of how well the thing works?)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have found the Kostov(11") features to not be reliable and don't
recommend using the raised area around the output shaft that you
mention. On mine, I turned the OD of the end plate while referencing the
ID of the output bearing bore. The end plate OD is a slip fit into the
adapter plate counter bore. With this, you know everything is concentric
with the motor shaft. Here's a link to some pictures.
http://home.pacbell.net/evranger/motorto.htm
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 10:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Adapter Questions
I was looking at my motor and tranny and thinking about hooking up
the electric motor.
>From what I've read, I should be sure to record the flywheel to motor
face distance. Then next I should attach the flywheel to the electric
motor, to see how thick the adapter/spacer ring needs to be.
This might be a wild idea, but what about machining a new flywheel
that is 1/2 of the taperlock coupler? This should save some weight,
be stronger, and might save a little overall length.
Here's a similar and less wild thought: It seems instead of doing a
conventional motor adapter plate, I could machine a bigger end plate
(is that what you call them?) for the electric motor. This would save
a bit of weight and be stronger. Are there any gotchas there? Or can
I just take off the motor endplate (I have a Kostov) and replace it
with one I have machined?
Luckily, the motor does a piston fit into the tranny to center
things. Likewise (if I do a more conventional motor adapter plate),
the Kostov had a raised area around the output shaft to center
things. So it looks like if I use a lathe, and get these two
diameters right, I'm centered. The bolts are a bit loose in their
holes and not critical for centering, nor are there any locating
pins.
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow! Thanks for all the replies. Where to start?...
Ken et al: First I have to say that Jim at American
Batteries in Hayward, CA stepped up to the plate
without any proding. He is comming by tomorrow with
20 new batteries. He was/is confused as to how it
happened. He says they sell 80 some of these
batteries per week! So it's not clear how he could
have units that were three months old.
BIG THUMBS UP FOR AMERICAN BATTERY!!!! They are very
pro EV.
Richard: You asked what test gear I used. I only
took specific gravity measurements so I used your
standard hydrometer.
Steve: I like that website too. Great bunch of guys.
They have all been EXTREMELY helpful for the 914 end
of this conversion. Any of you who are considering
using a Porsche 914 as your donor car should visit
914club.com FIRST. They have very knowledgeable and
friendly people in every state and many countries that
can help you out with inspections before purchase and
help getting it in shape after purchase. Not to
mention the classifieds there are fantastic. No I
don't "work" for them. There is no "them" anyway.
It's not a professional organization.
Steve again: I'm using a Russco charger. Basically
the kit from Electro Automotive
Dave: I know what you mean about finding a rust free
914. They don't exist. You really should check out
914club.com even for the 944. There are tons of people
on there who seem to be able to find stuff. As far as
the number of batteries and boxes and ... I'm using
the kit from Electro Auto so it's 20 6V bats and the
very nice Polyprop boxes.
Roland: All I can say is, "wow!" Um the engineer in
me loves the detail you go into in your specs. The
family man in me is laughing out loud. I don't have
the money to make any kind of suggestions to the US
Battery company or Trojan or whoever. I take what I
can get. Getting the same date code is about as far
as I can push it.
Thanks again everyone. You've been helpful as usual.
Keep checking the web address I posted earlier. I'll
post more pics as soon as I have 'em.
Shannon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bill,
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Can someone with Exide 34XCD batteries tell me their actual dimensions?
Sure.
>
> I've seen various numbers on the Internet that vary by up to 1/4 inch, and
> since my space is tight, that +/- 1/4-inch per battery difference could have
> an effect on how I design my battery boxes. Thanks.
>
The overall height of the battery, including the top posts, is 8 and 1/8 inches.
Excluding
these posts, the main body of the battery is 7 and 1/2 inches high.
The top portion of the battery, the more rectangular shaped part, is 10 and 1/4 inches
long, by 6 and 5/8 inches wide, not including the protruding section of the side posts.
Including those awkward side posts, the battery is 7 inches wide at the top. This
rectangular top is about 2 inches thick, where the rest of the battery body is inset
and
is comprised of the six cell barrels. The 6 barrels that make up the bulk of the
battery
body, are 5 inches high, 9 and 5/16 inches long, and including the lower projecting
plastic mount clamp ribs, 6 and 3/4 inches wide at the very bottom...excluding these
1/4
wide ribs (they can be easily sawed off on a table saw), the barrels are 6 and 1/4
inches
wide. Thus, the Exide Orbital is has a smaller footprint than the area of it's top
piece.
The two holes that one can use to mount the battery with (an 8 inch long, 5/16 bolt
with
fender washers on top works great), are exactly centered in the middle of the battery,
and
are 3 and 1/8 inches center-to-center....they are each 3 and 9/16 inches in from the
ends
of the battery's top piece (lengthwise).
Hope this helps.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<Today after 4 years, I still have only 0.01 voltage difference between 20
batteries, 0.02 voltage difference between 8 batteries and 0.03 on two
batteries.
As a EV driver, you have a tighter specs. than a person with one battery.
All batteries shall
perform equally in a group. If any one battery does not perform the same as
the others, than it
shall be replace.>>>
Wow, you're pretty strict with them!
Isn't the number of really deep cycles (and use of high currents) where you see
numbers getting a bit "scattered"? Has your pack been pushed hard?
[As a side note, I just wondered about engineers and their families - mine would
think I had abandoned them if my free time was spent measuring and recording EV
specs...but maybe this is something engineers enjoy doing. I try to keep my
multimeter probings to the minimum RDA. I'm closer to the "Joe Sixpack"
mentality - drive, plug in, drive some more.]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While waiting for auto work to be done, I was flipping through October's Condé
Nast Traveler, and found an article about driving a Prius through the
Southeast. Now, there have been plenty of these in the auto mags, but it took a
travel mag to ask "why don't they put in a bigger pack and a plug-in charger",
compare it to the "ill-fated EV1" and mention the "few central generating
plants vs. millions of inefficient ICEs" arguement!
I was pretty impressed, but then, this magazine is aimed a bit towards the upper
class, so it doesn't have the circulation of TIME, Newsweek or the like. Still,
every bit helps!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody have a spare Vego 450 Controller? The Fets in mine seem fried. I
have a 600 controller but it doesn't seem to work in the 450. Maybe a
trade? Lawrence Rhodes...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Accord to distributor I talked to while attempting to
price a pack- Those rules went into affect over a year
ago. What's really happening it the oil prices are
climbing and the plastic cases use oil in
manufacturing and the cost of delivery went up as
well. The new regs just limit the amount of lithium
per package. Also it sounds like lithium is a rare
element which limits the amount of batteries being
made. So they may not ever become cost effective.
While they look to be a great power to weight ratio
you'll need a bundle to afford them. Think of it this
way: T-zero 6800 each 18690 AA sized batteries and
12.00 a four pack. Now add their 25K BMS and AC
controller. And you already have an SUV Hummer price.
Sure it goes fast and long distance but I can't carry
a weeks worth of food in it.
--- Gary Graunke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A friend who works for a LiIon battery distributer
> told me that there
> are new regulations for LiIon battery shipping and
> cell/battery
> construction that are going into effect. Many
> existing suppliers can no
> longer ship product as a result.
>
> The story is that this started when a forklift at
> the LA airport pierced
> a pallet of LiIon cells.
>
> Here is a pointer to his company's web page which
> contains various
> documents related to the new regulations.
>
> http://www.nexergy.com/lithium_shipping.html
>
> I have just downloaded the docs myself, and have not
> read them yet.
>
>
> Gary
>
> ====================================
> From: Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:28 pm
> Subject: Re: TS Price Increase
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> Just so you know, the price of all Lithium batteries
> has started going up. The explaination I've received
> from more than one Chinese supplier is "Iraq war" or
> increasing petroleum costs have made their raw
> materials price skyrocket. Turns out the Li-ion
> batteries use lots of petro-chemicals to make :)
>
> -Sam
>
>
_______________________________
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Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---
<<<Anybody have a spare Vego 450 Controller? The Fets in mine seem fried. I
have a 600 controller but it doesn't seem to work in the 450. Maybe a
trade? Lawrence Rhodes...>>>
Lawrence, if you're sure of the wiring inputs, maybe one takes a pot and the
other a Hall throttle? Low amp types found here:
http://cloudelectric.com/category.html?UCIDs=1215201
more amps here: http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?page_number=2&id=268
Seems to be a rash of scooter controller failures - my "Chinese Junk" shut down
but left a few milliamps of 16V trickling to the motor. Dismantling showed it
to be mostly a "little black relay in a big silver box" with nothing burnt or
exploded, but now I too am in the market for a controller.
Has anyone used an SRE controller? For regen 48V controllers, it's either their
100A version from Cloud Electric (which can take my Hall effect throttle input)
or 4QD's Scoota (which, it appears, can't, but can be had with a 200A peak).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave wrote:
> I just got my "Harbor Freight" catalouge, and noticed a ceramic
> heater in it for $6.49. Maybe a few of those, strategicaly placed
> and controlled, would make an interior a little more livable?
Keep in mind that you get what you pay for. You'll have to spend a lot
more than $6.49 per heater to adapt it for EV use.
When you get done adding the DC fan, HV relay to switch the heating
element, DC-rated fuse and overtemp safety switches, you may wonder why
you didn't also get a decent quality heating element that didn't fail
after a season or two.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Wow, John, thanks so much. That's even more info than I'd hoped for. It'll
be really helpful. I think I read in this list a couple of months ago that
the marine version of the battery is exactly the same as the 34XCD, but
without the side posts. Can the 34XCD's side posts be ground down or cut
back a little, or am I better off just spending a bit of extra money and
buying the marine version?
Thanks again.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Wayland
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 34XCD Dimensions
Hello Bill,
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Can someone with Exide 34XCD batteries tell me their actual dimensions?
Sure.
>
> I've seen various numbers on the Internet that vary by up to 1/4 inch, and
> since my space is tight, that +/- 1/4-inch per battery difference could
have
> an effect on how I design my battery boxes. Thanks.
>
The overall height of the battery, including the top posts, is 8 and 1/8
inches. Excluding
these posts, the main body of the battery is 7 and 1/2 inches high.
The top portion of the battery, the more rectangular shaped part, is 10 and
1/4 inches
long, by 6 and 5/8 inches wide, not including the protruding section of the
side posts.
Including those awkward side posts, the battery is 7 inches wide at the top.
This
rectangular top is about 2 inches thick, where the rest of the battery body
is inset and
is comprised of the six cell barrels. The 6 barrels that make up the bulk of
the battery
body, are 5 inches high, 9 and 5/16 inches long, and including the lower
projecting
plastic mount clamp ribs, 6 and 3/4 inches wide at the very
bottom...excluding these 1/4
wide ribs (they can be easily sawed off on a table saw), the barrels are 6
and 1/4 inches
wide. Thus, the Exide Orbital is has a smaller footprint than the area of
it's top piece.
The two holes that one can use to mount the battery with (an 8 inch long,
5/16 bolt with
fender washers on top works great), are exactly centered in the middle of
the battery, and
are 3 and 1/8 inches center-to-center....they are each 3 and 9/16 inches in
from the ends
of the battery's top piece (lengthwise).
Hope this helps.
See Ya.....John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
For a proper charge, they must be brought up to 10.33 Volts per battery
(186 Volts for a 144 Volt nominal system) and held there for two hours.
9.3 Volts is charging them to a much lower level, hence the low range.
FWIW: Charging correctly is the most important factor in obtaining the
performance and maximum life of the batteries. Not following the
recommended parameters results in degradation without the battery fault.
Sincerely
Nawaz Qureshi
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 06:52:58 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Seems to be a rash of scooter controller failures - my "Chinese Junk" shut down
>but left a few milliamps of 16V trickling to the motor. Dismantling showed it
>to be mostly a "little black relay in a big silver box" with nothing burnt or
>exploded, but now I too am in the market for a controller.
>
>Has anyone used an SRE controller? For regen 48V controllers, it's either their
>100A version from Cloud Electric (which can take my Hall effect throttle input)
>or 4QD's Scoota (which, it appears, can't, but can be had with a 200A peak).
I have one of those 3 wheel Chinese junk City Shuttle knockoffs. The tiny
little controller leaked blue smoke and then someone stole it off my
motorhome and stripped it. I got back enough pieces to get it rolling
again. Since the plastic body was smashed I decided to eliminate it and
go for performance. I stacked 4 12 volt 17 ah batteries upright in the
formerly lay-down battery tray and slipped a Curtis 48 volt, 400 amp
controller I had laying around under the triple clamp. I left the stock
motor in place but with heavier wiring.
This thing is now scary. I clocked 51 mph on my radar gun before I
chickened out. It was still pulling hard. The motor makes the most
interesting sound, somewhat like cloth tearing. No glow from the cooling
holes so I don't think the commutator is flashing over.
I have not had a chance to instrument this thing yet so I don't know how
many amps this thing actually draws. Probably close to 200 during
acceleration. I did pipe in a cooling fan to the motor but I don't expect
it to last long. I picked up a couple of spares surplus for pocket change
so I'm not terribly worried. There's an ETEK sitting on the shelf when I
run out :-)
My next project is to fit a disc brake on the front wheel. The stock
brake took almost a city block to stop from 50 mph.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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--- Begin Message ---
I bought one of these for my TEVan. It plugs into
the lighter and I set it on the dash to defrost the
window. It can barely perform this task (just keeping
condensation of the window, will not melt ice).
It makes a lots of noise (no bearings or balancing)
and starts to smell like burning plastic after a few
minutes.
Rod
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > I just got my "Harbor Freight" catalouge, and
> noticed a ceramic
> > heater in it for $6.49. Maybe a few of those,
> strategicaly placed
> > and controlled, would make an interior a little
> more livable?
>
> Keep in mind that you get what you pay for. You'll
> have to spend a lot
> more than $6.49 per heater to adapt it for EV use.
>
> When you get done adding the DC fan, HV relay to
> switch the heating
> element, DC-rated fuse and overtemp safety switches,
> you may wonder why
> you didn't also get a decent quality heating element
> that didn't fail
> after a season or two.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, everybody. I thought they might be ok for auxilary heat. Sounds like
they aren't worth having!
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: Heater
I bought one of these for my TEVan. It plugs into
the lighter and I set it on the dash to defrost the
window. It can barely perform this task (just keeping
condensation of the window, will not melt ice).
It makes a lots of noise (no bearings or balancing)
and starts to smell like burning plastic after a few
minutes.
Rod
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dave wrote:
> I just got my "Harbor Freight" catalouge, and
noticed a ceramic
> heater in it for $6.49. Maybe a few of those,
strategicaly placed
> and controlled, would make an interior a little
more livable?
Keep in mind that you get what you pay for. You'll
have to spend a lot
more than $6.49 per heater to adapt it for EV use.
When you get done adding the DC fan, HV relay to
switch the heating
element, DC-rated fuse and overtemp safety switches,
you may wonder why
you didn't also get a decent quality heating element
that didn't fail
after a season or two.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of
thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick and All,
As Lynn Adams mentioned, the 8's don't last as long as the 6's, but another
problem is voltage sag. Because they sag more than 6's, you don't get as
much power out of them and less range pound for pound. I ran a 144V pack of
8's in the car originally, swore I'd never use them again, and then
stupidly ran a pack in the truck. I remember reading a Trojan comparison
that mentioned a 192V pack of 8's, which I should have given more thought
to. With the higher voltage, it takes less current and thus, you get less
sag, but who would want 24 floodies in a car? Now that I've switched to 24
6's in the truck and AGM's in the car, as they say, "I'm never going back"!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:59:08 -0700
>From: "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: 6-Volt vs. 8-volt Batteries
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>
>Hello,
>
>I'm finally going to get my Jet Electrica running this winter. I need
>new batteries and was wondering what are the pros and cons of using
>6-volt vs. 8-volt batteries? My car will hold 20 T-105 batteries. So
>am I better off using 20 6-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of
>120, or 18 8-volt batteries for a total pack voltage of 144? Will both
>battery packs last the same number of cycles?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Patrick
>
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