EV Digest 3856
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: EV 'X' prize? (part 1)
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Battery charger
by "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Twike (was Food energy)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Clutch rumminations
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Life After Woodburn, pt. 1
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EV digest 3850
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: DC to DC and isolation
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: EV digest 3850
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Battery charger
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Pot box resistance question
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Vac Pump/Alt
by "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Bike Batteries - was "Food energy"
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery charger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Vac Reservoir fabbing
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC to DC and isolation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Lester problems
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: vac. pump
by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: DC to DC and isolation
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) FW: Electric cars
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Disc motor coils for use with Etek magnets
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: FW: Electric cars
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Clutch Ruminations
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: vac. pump wiring & relay diode #
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Vac Reservoir fabbing
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) DC to DC and isolation
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV 'X" prize? (part 2)
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the words.
I'm also of the opinion that the technology has been viable
since the late 90s for performance close to the specs I
outlined. GM themselves on their EV1 website(No longer up?)
claimed the EV1 in mass production would go for $34k($45k
with NiMH batteries). Had they used a DC motor and
controller instead of an expensive Cocconi-designed AC moter
and inverter, had they used a simple fiberglass body as
opposed to carbon fibre, gotten rid of that Magnecharger BS
and used a simple plug into 110V or 220V outlet sort of
charger, $30k may have been doable for a NiMH version. That
was 5 years ago. Range would have dropped about 15%, but
performance may have increased some due to extra torque from
DC motor. 0-60 < 7 and 100-110 miles real range driven in a
spirited manner for $30k wouldn't have been out of the
question with the right setup. It would have been
competitive with overpriced cars like the Audi TT, BMW Z3,
and Porsche Boxter, but with 1/3 the range!
As to the Li Ion pack, yes, I think that could do what I
asked. That is one of the points of my idea. :)
I purposely set this up to seem(or even be) doable and
feasable, but wanted to encourage competition, with the
prize going to the one to beat the requirements and have the
highest ratings, with proof of its mass production price tag
as determined by a set of criteria that would be modelled.
Given the 70 MPH Jester EV by Greener Energy with 150-200
miles range and having a $25,000-ish price tag if made in
volumes of 50 or so a year, I don't think a viable and
affordable interstate-travel capable EV is out of the
question. Then also note that Electrovaya is claiming a 200+
mile range SUV, with a hand-made price of $80k, then it is
certainly possibile; although that one SUV example could be
marketing fluff, it seems legit. Then note Gara Graunke's
Honda Insight conversion. When that thing is complete, I'm
sure it will be a thing of beauty, rolling around Oregon
state without any kind of range leash(200+ miles?), all for
about $20k in low to medium volume parts. I can't forget to
mention Red Beastie, with its 100+ mile range, which may
even perform monstrously well if the Trojans were ditched
and in their place 3 strings of SAFT NiCds. Also note Jon
'Sheer' Pullen's conversionwith its 100+ miles highway
range, 0-60 in 14, and $20k conversion cost. Even hobbyists
are getting very close to that goal without having access to
all the tools the big automakers do!
If only the original Evertrolls(the actual ones that could
be used in EVs) were still made. I really was looking
forward to putting a pack of them in a Triumph EV for 80+
miles highway range and 0-60 < 10...
>Hi John an' All;
>
>I'll comment on this one. We HAD the above, the EV
>1, 'cept for the
>under 25k .....but if GM grew thousands of them,
>betya the price woukda
>dropped to the above. The nickle iron ones offered
>in CA. Now with the
>laptop ones in the T Zero, there you are! Or
>something like that.
>Legislating it into existance, like duel master
>cylinders, social security,
>standard time, air brakes, automatic couplers
>(trains) enough lifeboats for
>ALL, 24/7 radio watches (ships) Stuff ya take for
>granted on Amtrak, Jet
>Blue or Carnival Cruises......safety Stuff.
>
>My two watts worth
>
>Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys, does any one of you know how to make a bettery charger, to
run at about 10 amps, input of 110 Volts, and out put of 144 volts.
all the ones that I have found ..so far.. are priced way over my
buget..I was wondering who would like to take on that kind of
project???? I may need 3 of them. Thanks Sharon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Food energy
Speaking of human / electric propulsion, has anyone heard any news about
Twike here in the states? (Wasn't there "some guy" importing them up in
Seattle?)
CTK
There was indeed someone in Seattle importing the Twike in about
1998 named Victor Munoz. I think a few were sold in the Seattle
and in the Portland areas. The European company (Swiss if my
memory is correct) that was making them went bankrupt a few years ago.
The Twike is certainly unique. It's a three wheeler, one in front and two
in back. Two passenger seated in a recumbent position can pedal like
bicyclists if they want to help the electric motor to climb hills and to
increase the range, speed and acceleration.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What about a 5.5" dual plate(or tripple on an 7" alum flywheel with a
steal insert.
something along these lines :
http://www.tiltonracing.com/driveline/rally.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to touch on this one point, I have experienced in past years this
fury of activity at Wayland's garage, and have taken the opportunity to
help out where I can, crimping cables, polishing aluminum battery
hold-downs (yes, polishing -- in Wayland's car, it can't go in if it
doesn't look good!) and even the honor of spending a little wrench time on
the Tango at last year's event -- probably the highlight of which was
passing a pack of Orbitals through John's table saw.
Though AustinEV had prior commitments this year and didn't get to go to
Woodburn, this is one event I always want to be a part of, as much for the
adventures on those late, dark and frantic Friday nights as for the race
day itself.
--c.r.
John Wayland said:
> Under the hood, I was feverishly working on all the newest electrical
> stuff. In the trunk,
> the four extra batteries that would raise the car to 288V were still not
> installed, the
> 4/0 cables to connect them not yet made up, the hold-down bolt holes still
> not drilled
> and tapped, etc., etc. By midnight or so, it wasn�t looking good for the
> car and myself to
> be ready �the night before�...oh well.
>
> Saturday, race day, in the dark pre-dawn early hours, I was up and out
> back in my EV shop
> wrenching on the car, later adjoined by Oat. Everyone else had left for
> the track, and it
> was just Oat and I. We worked together, trying our best to get everything
> done. We had
> resigned ourselves to the fact that we�d both get to the track late. Oat�s
> car was ready
> to go, but he stayed by my side to help me with the rest of everything to
> be done. By 10
> or so, it looked as if we finally, were close to being
> done........and.........then......it happened!
>
> Stay tuned....
>
> See Ya....John �Plasma Boy� Wayland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I remember correctly the trade name was the Northstar system.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EV digest 3850
The Cadillac 4-6-8 Variable Displacement 368 had solenoids to disconnect the
valve rocker and just use 6 cylinders or even 4 cylinders. Is that the one
you were thinking of?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Glauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: EV digest 3850
> Actually, the cylinder shut-off is not a new idea. There was a car
> that
> did this back in the days before electronic engines. It did it with vacuum
> lines!! But it was so complex that it broke too often to continue with. It
> was a production car but I cannot remember the make or model, sorry.
>
> -Jon Glauser
>
> wordrite wrote:
>
>>All: Has anybody heard of the new Accord Hybrid? It has a V6 with full
>>time ICE, variable cylinder shut-off (3 at a time), and Electric motor
>>for assist. It claims to be faster than a stock Accord, and
>>30-35mpg...An interesting idea anyway..........
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just use the DC./DC to charge your battery or replace the battery with it.
It will act the same as the battery. Just make sure your pack isn't
connected to the frame. You could also use a small battery to buffer your
DC./DC it is only 65w. I can buy 25 to 50w converters at my favoriet
electronics store for about 5 bucks. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:20 AM
Subject: DC to DC and isolation
> I recently purchased the following switching power supplies to use as DC
to
> DC converters for my motorcycle.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3841986181
> Up until now I have been using a seperate auxillary battery to power my my
> lights, which works fine, it just has to be charged seperately. Now that
I
> am getting ready to install these instead or in conjucntion with the
battery
> I am wondering what kind of isolation issues I might introduce. For the
most
> part the lights on the bike have the frame connected as ground. Will I be
> introducing a path from my traction pack to the frame of the bike if I use
> these? They did not come with schematics.
>
> Thanks
> damon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember the last time they had major hearings on raising the CAF�
standards back about 3 years ago. Part of the technology they included in
their report was using electronic valve actuators, to completely do away
with timing chains/gears, camshafts, and valve train, and use this in a new
version of the same system. Their conclusion was that with the technology
already on the shelf and in the pipeline, that allowing 10 to 15 years for
the OEM's to recover the cost of tooling and design changes, there was no
reason that the CAF� standard could not be raised to 30 MPG or higher,
without compromising vehicle safety or weight, and including
lighttrucks/SUV's in the standard as well.
The opponents gave the same old arguments - the only way we can do it is to
reduce weight, and that means we'll have to reduce vehicle safety, or the
old wave-the-flag argument that dictating CAF� standards would dictate what
vehicles people could drive, and by god Americans had the right to drive
whatever they wanted to. In the end it was business as usual and the
increased CAF� standards got voted down.
(SOAPBOX MODE ON) - Every time I hear one of these yahoo's talk about how
they have the right to drive whatever they want, I want to grab them by the
shirt collar and tell them "You don't have the RIGHT to DRIVE ANYTHING!
Operating a vehicle on public roads is a PRIVILEGE. Why do you think you
need a bloody DRIVERS LICENSE?" (SOAPBOX MODE OFF).
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:16 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: EV digest 3850
The Cadillac 4-6-8 Variable Displacement 368 had solenoids to disconnect the
valve rocker and just use 6 cylinders or even 4 cylinders. Is that the one
you were thinking of?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Glauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: EV digest 3850
> Actually, the cylinder shut-off is not a new idea. There was a car
> that
> did this back in the days before electronic engines. It did it with vacuum
> lines!! But it was so complex that it broke too often to continue with. It
> was a production car but I cannot remember the make or model, sorry.
>
> -Jon Glauser
>
> wordrite wrote:
>
>>All: Has anybody heard of the new Accord Hybrid? It has a V6 with full
>>time ICE, variable cylinder shut-off (3 at a time), and Electric motor
>>for assist. It claims to be faster than a stock Accord, and
>>30-35mpg...An interesting idea anyway..........
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Sharon and All,
--- goodsharonwbird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Guys, does any one of you know how to make a
> bettery charger, to
> run at about 10 amps, input of 110 Volts, and out
> put of 144 volts.
> all the ones that I have found ..so far.. are
> priced way over my
> buget..I was wondering who would like to take on
> that kind of
> project???? I may need 3 of them. Thanks Sharon
>
That depends on what kind of batts you are using.
If it's GC batts or other floodeds you can use 2-
36vdc ferro type GC chargers by replacing the full
wave diodes with a bridge rectifier in each which
raises the voltage to 72vdc in each as a good
regulated, low cost way.
This will set you back about $600 new or if you
can find dead ones you can build it up from the
transformers quite easily for little money. Most of my
units were built for $10 + used dead chargers to start
with.
Another more daring would be a Bad Boy with
manners that just uses a rectifier, fuse, a couple
caps, GFI and and a timer.
Because as the batt voltage rises, the currents
decreases just about right for 132-144v batt packs.
Add a Variac for fine adjustment which is nice
because line voltage varies a lot.
These can be built for under $100 usually in
parts. But they are unisolated so not for begineers.
Btw, batt charger need to be turned up some in
the winter and when batts get older.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got a PB6 connected to a 1231C Curtis
controller. When I measure the resistance across the
pot while the throttle cable moves through it's travel
the resistance moves from 0 to about 4.3K ohms. This
is while not connected to the 1231C, when it is
connected to the controller the resistance goes from 0
to about 2.3 k ohms. Is this right? These measuments
were made with both the main pack and the 12V battery
disconected.
I've also noticed that the cover on the opposite
side from the connections has come off the controller,
any body else have this happen? How hard is it to get
it back on and sealed?
TiM
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys, I am installing an altanator on my Ranger on the motor
mount strap around the ADC. with a shaft off the rear of the motor,
also a belt driven Vac pump. they both work fine, the alt charges
the 12 battery just fine, even at a stop,theres more than enough
power for the lights, radio, and what not. the Vac pump is almost
noisless, and good for about 20 hard stops on a no Vac load,it has a
very large storage tank with it, with vac hoses running the A/C
Heater, def. vent doors . I did have to use some Vac diodes, in the
lines, but other wise its just what I need.. Thanks again Sharon
83,S-10,,90 ranger,,95 Ranger,,91 Mazda,,all pick-ups..and soon
another S-15..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard,
I have a 180+ kg EM that can go 20 miles at 40mph. It has a 75kg pack, 48v,
55Ahr, Power Sonic AGMs. If you don't use much energy going down hill to
work, you only need to go one quarter of my range, so I guess-timate you
need only one quarter the Ahr's, or 14Ahr. You are a lot lighter than me, so
on level ground, 12 Ahr would probably do the job, such as Power Sonic model
PS-12120, 4.1kg each. A lot depends on how steep the hill is. It's very
flat here in south Texas, so I have no experience to offer you on your hill
situation. You may want to go back to theory to get a number for this.
Also very warm here, so I get a lot out of my AGM's. At 40 mph, you are
using a lot of energy to overcome wind drag. Slow down to 30mph and you
might be able to use a 1/3 smaller pack, or get 1/3 more range. Good
luck, Mark T.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/518.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Food energy
> i ride my push bike 5 miles each way to work
............
> i'm building an etek powered one at present though for
> use in the summer (the ride home is largely uphill)
> can any one help me with the battery selection for
> this from previous experience rather than theory ?
> weight of bike will be 50kg top speed 40mph 48V
> regards
> richard
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> Hi Guys, does any one of you know how to make a
> bettery charger, to
> run at about 10 amps, input of 110 Volts, and out
> put of 144 volts.
> all the ones that I have found ..so far.. are
> priced way over my
> buget..I was wondering who would like to take on
> that kind of
> project???? I may need 3 of them. Thanks Sharon
>
Isn't 144vdc about the right output for a badboy (or badboy with manners)
charger?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dangitall! In trying to locate a vacuum leak, I
must've made a small crack larger, or started a crack
by using teflon tape. At the holes where the brass
fittings go, there are hairline fissures now. My
questions:
1) Do you use black ABS plastic like the one I
purchased?
2) What type of plastic sealant do you use, should I
choose to fab one, instead of getting a replacement
from the same manufacturer?
3) What do you cut the threads in with?
Seems to me I'll be better off purchasing 4" dia ABS,
2 end caps, and the epoxy, plus a tapping tool, by the
time I add shipping and profit.
Eager to get my rig on the road,
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
damon henry wrote:
>
> I recently purchased the following switching power supplies to use as DC to
> DC converters for my motorcycle.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3841986181
> Up until now I have been using a seperate auxillary battery to power my my
> lights, which works fine, it just has to be charged seperately. Now that I
> am getting ready to install these instead or in conjucntion with the battery
> I am wondering what kind of isolation issues I might introduce. For the most
> part the lights on the bike have the frame connected as ground. Will I be
> introducing a path from my traction pack to the frame of the bike if I use
> these? They did not come with schematics.
It is interesting to see that they have a 20-56vdc input. They probably
are isolated, but a ohmmeter can tell you for sure; see if there is any
path from output to input.
It doesn't supply much 12v power; you will need an accessory battery to
make it work with your bike's lights. You will also have to experiment
to figure out how to adjust the 12v up to 13.5-14v, and whether it will
regulate and work even with no load on the other outputs.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Lester 09387 charger, it's a 12V/96V
model. The first time I plugged it in to 220 all went
well and it went through it's charge cycle and then
turned off. I drove around a bit and went to charge it
again. I plugged in the 220 source again and the 20A
breaker popped after about 5 minutes. When I reset the
breaker and plugged the charger in again the breaker
popped right away. I can plug the charger into 110 and
it seems to charge fine. The guy I bought the truck
from only charged on 110V. I e-mailed Lester and they
told me to check my service. The breaker is relatively
new and has seen little service. My compressor will
run off the same extension cord without any trouble.
Is there a failure mode with the Lestronic
chargers that affect only the 220V charging mode?
Frustrated, but still having fun....
TiM
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just finished installing a new vac pump from Victor.
It's a huge improvement over the other one. Virtually
unnoticeable unless you're really listening for it and
their isn't any idling ICE-mobiles around you. It got
me to thinking that I've never heard the vac pump in
the RAV4-EV so I put it in my garage and stomped on
the brakes a few times before I noticed a slight
"wirrr". It's significantly quieter than even the MES
vac pump.
I wonder if Toyota would sell the part if asked.
-Sam
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The auction was for a lot of 5, so I will either use 1 with the battery
still in place or 2 without.
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: DC to DC and isolation
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:02:33 -0700
Just use the DC./DC to charge your battery or replace the battery with it.
It will act the same as the battery. Just make sure your pack isn't
connected to the frame. You could also use a small battery to buffer your
DC./DC it is only 65w. I can buy 25 to 50w converters at my favoriet
electronics store for about 5 bucks. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:20 AM
Subject: DC to DC and isolation
> I recently purchased the following switching power supplies to use as DC
to
> DC converters for my motorcycle.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3841986181
> Up until now I have been using a seperate auxillary battery to power my
my
> lights, which works fine, it just has to be charged seperately. Now
that
I
> am getting ready to install these instead or in conjucntion with the
battery
> I am wondering what kind of isolation issues I might introduce. For the
most
> part the lights on the bike have the frame connected as ground. Will I
be
> introducing a path from my traction pack to the frame of the bike if I
use
> these? They did not come with schematics.
>
> Thanks
> damon
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
FREE!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can someone provide assistance to this European interest for an EV?
-Ed
--- On Fri 10/15, Vitor Oliveira < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
From: Vitor Oliveira [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:28:29 +0100
Subject: Electric cars
Hello,
I�m from Portugal and I�m interest onbuy one electric car for myself.
Please tell me what I can buy on European market.
Best Regards,
Vitor Oliveira
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--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
> I need a good motor, controller so figured I
> could do it myself at a better quality, lower costs
> and with a low cost, redundant, bldc, owner repairable
> controller!
Well, it is possible -- but it's a big order! I think what you need to
do is become *very* familiar with existing designs, and then make your
improvements based on them. If you try to start with a blank sheet of
paper, you have 100+years of experience to catch up.
The Lynch motor design has a lot of promise as something that you can
reasonably build yourself, and that will have very good performance. It
also has a commutator, which will greatly simplify the controller. Try
building a scaled-up version.
I'm concerned that if you try to make a brushless DC motor, it will
either become so complicated that it is very expensive and hard to build
-- or it will be so crude that its efficiency and performance will be
poor.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
goodsharonwbird wrote:
> Hi Guys, does any one of you know how to make a bettery charger, to
> run at about 10 amps, input of 110 Volts, and out put of 144 volts.
> all the ones that I have found ..so far.. are priced way over my
> buget..I was wondering who would like to take on that kind of
> project? I may need 3 of them. Thanks Sharon
I hesitate to mention a "bad boy" charger to a beginner, because they
are so "rude and crude". A beginner is likely to exaggerate their good
points (small, light, and cheap), and underestimate their bad points
(dangerous, battery killer).
A "bad boy" is the electrical equivalent of saying, "You don' need no
steenkin' emission controls, exhaust system, air cleaner, or oil filter,
on your car engine! That stuff is all expensive, heavy junk. Leave it
off!"
The name "bad boy" was coined by John Wayland for a charger that is
basically nothing but a bridge rectifier off the AC power line that goes
directly to the batteries, with only a little resistance or inductance
to limit the peak current. The "resistance" can be little more than a
bunch of connectors and extension cords. They work best (i.e. least bad
:-) for a 120vac line charging a 96-120vdc pack.
To be reasonable, the following parts should be added to a "bad boy", or
a beginner will almost certainly melt cords, shock people, and ruin
his/her batteries:
- GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor) to avoid electrocuting
someone who touches the batteries while charging.
- Fuse or circuit breaker, one size smaller than the one the outlet
you will be using is protected with (to prevent nuisance tripping
and wearing out the main breaker).
- Ammeter (so you can tell what the heck you are charging at).
- Voltmeter (so you can tell when the pack reaches full charge).
- Timer (to automatically shut the thing off after some reasonable
time even if the user forgets).
- Some kind of defined voltage dropping device (not extension cords)!
These can be physical resistors (cheapest, worst), inductors (one
winding of a transformer), capacitors (somewhat easier to get), or
a variac (most versatile; becomes a "third world charger").
If your pack is 144vdc nominal, then you need a buck-boost transformer
or variac for a "bad boy" to work.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
look at http://www.solarmobil.net/ . This website is in german, but you
probably can get at least some information.
And on http://ev.starttips.com/ you can also find some infos.
Emil
On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:58:09 -0400 (EDT), "EAA-contact"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Can someone provide assistance to this European interest for an EV?
>
> -Ed
>
> --- On Fri 10/15, Vitor Oliveira < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
> From: Vitor Oliveira [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 19:28:29 +0100
> Subject: Electric cars
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
> I�m from Portugal and I�m interest onbuy one electric car for myself.
>
> Please tell me what I can buy on European market.
>
> Best Regards,
> Vitor Oliveira
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Clutch Ruminations
> I'll look forward to reading your test data. I wouldn't expect an
> earth shattering improvement, but effectively maybe 60 pounds lighter
> would be 2% faster acceleration, worth a tenth or two off the 0-60
> time.
I'm thinking about distance , not being able to shift quick won't help
acceleration :-) but with 240v and the 1k zilla one gear will do most of
what I need . I had the clutch stop working about a year ago , the peddle
won't move and I don't want to brake somthing by pushing to hard ( that was
a funny day , got in the car to go to a job and found the Clutch NOT
working! oh its an ev I don't need the clutch and off I went) . It may be
easy to fix , but then we'd never know how much more that flywheel uses.
......
>
> I'd like to get all your videos on your grassrootsev site, can you
> put one of those handy paypal things for that on your site?
Jon who is driving one of my trucks is doing th web site , and may have
paypal working , a check works good ,
Would it
> be easy for you to cram them all onto one DVD?
>
maybe , someday , they don't work on a dvd player they were done for windows
media player. I don't have a lot to do with them now , I have two different
people who have there hand in the pie. I keep one in my car truck for people
I run into who are intrested.
> Machining the hub right on the motor shaft sounds pretty clever.
and using the same key , Just making do with what tools I have ,
I
> thought I remembered you posting you were buying commercial taperlock
> couplers now. Which method do you prefer?
>
I've used taper lock belt pullys and machinead the face and put a lip on it
to center the flywheel , this is the hard part , the lining up the motor
plate and tranny plate is the part I feel best about and think is doable by
most. I talked to Randy Holmquest at www.canev.com/ , and he will sell just
the hub ,
steve clunn
> --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Geared weight is even worse! Suppose your 1st gear is a 10:1
> > overall
> > > ratio. Weight in your clutch, flywheel, and motor acts like it
> > has
> > > ten times the effective rotational inertia! Another way to think
> > > about it is about 100 times more energy will go into this geared
> > > spinning flywheel than a stationary one bolted to the car upon
> > > accelerating. Figure a flywheel is about 1/2 the diameter of a
> > wheel,
> > > and you can figure that every pound you take off the flywheel is
> > like
> > > taking about 2 pounds off the car.
> > >
> > these are some of the reasons I like the lov joy couplers , total
> > weight is
> > only a few lbs. What I have done in the past is to take the clutch
> > spines
> > out of the clutch and weld it to one of the Lov joy couplers , the
> > other
> > half I just buy with the 1 1/8 hole for the motor.
> >
> > > Lightweight flywheels and pressure plates are well known racer's
> > > tricks, but generally discouraged for street use. A gas car with
> > a
> > > very light flywheel is hard to start, idles poorly, and is easy
> > to
> > > stall.
> > >
> >
> > Maybe some day sombody will start selling a aluminum flywheel with
> > a nice
> > taper lock hub in one unit , let the buyer put the holes for the
> > presser
> > plate or the seller could do that also.
> >
> >
> > > For electric motors, however, no worries! Electric motors are
> > smooth,
> > > and don't need a heavy flywheel to even out the torque
> > pulsations.
> > > They can't stall, so no worries there. And they don't idle, so no
> > > need to worry about that -- and even if it does idle no worries.
> > A
> > > lighter flywheel will give a bit better acceleration and a bit
> > better
> > > range.
> >
> > I don't think anybody has had both setup to really compare , I am
> > planning
> > on redoing my Porsche and going form clutch to no clutch , the hub
> > I made
> > for that car was .07 out , with 120 v it work fine but 240 showed a
> > vibration , I'll take some good measurements one power used with
> > both setup
> > and then we'll have some real info.
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, things are starting to become clear.
In the case of turning on the vac. pump, several years ago
(before the Square-D switch came along) I took the shell off the
Potter-Brumfeld relay that was controlling the pump motor. I
knew the relay was pretty well fried, since it was having
troubles turning off the pump (or was it turning on - I forget).
But anyways, the spark on the relay's contacts was much brighter
when they closed to turn the pump on than opening to turn the
pump off. So it really looks like for the turn-on, I should
consider Mark Hanson's CL-60 inrush surge protector, and maybe
also try to hunt down Lee's cap/resistor explanation.
One concern about the CL-60: one time I tried lowering the
voltage across the pump to about 8V. The pump stalled once it
was down to about 15-20" vacuum, so that was the end of the
low-voltage slow-pump noise-reduction idea. (Would think it
would stall at a lesser vacuum when there was more air to move,
hence more work.) Sounds like the CL-60 just limits the initial
current, and then we have full voltage from there (more or less).
Thanks,
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: vac. pump wiring & relay diode #
> There are several ways to cut the spike, and protect
> relays. Capacitor/resistor can be used, but a diode is
> cheap, easy, and does the job just fine.
> A diode across the keyswitch relay will only protect
> that one.
> The pump will turn on/off while the key switch is
> still in the ignition (on). Sooo, you've got to put a
> diode in that circuit.
> The more times a relay switches, the worse the
> contacts eventually get. Thus, the keyswitch relay
> might turn on 400 times per year, while the vacuum
> pump may turn on 400,000 times per year or more.
>
> Hope this helps.
> >
> > (I saw Victor's polarity correction.)
> >
> > I have a Square-D switch that senses the vacuum in
> > the system and
> > turns the pump on or off. The other switch/relay
> > that has to
> > deal with turning the pump off is the main key
> > switch relay (if
> > the pump is running and I get in a hurry and turn
> > off the car).
> > Will the diode across the motor cover these two
> > switches (I would
> > think so, and that I wouldn't need to put a separate
> > diode across
> > each switch instead)?
> >
> > So what about car turn-on time? It is rather
> > unlikely that the
> > Square-D switch will be switching closed (the vacuum
> > leaking
> > away) at the exact time that I turn on the car. But
> > the main
> > key-switch relay will have to deal with starting
> > that vacuum pump
> > (assuming I'm below the 10-in.-of-vacuum turn-on
> > point). What do
> > I need for that? I recall Lee talking about some
> > combination of
> > a capacitor and resistor to reduce the arc on switch
> > contacts
> > when starting the pump up.
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the
steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
> _______________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
> http://vote.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume you've seen the Mike Brown (ElectroAutomotive) vacuum
tank? Looks like black plastic pipe (4"?) with the two endcaps.
Maybe you could buy one from him. The other possibility to help
out a fellow EV'er is that I think I'd be willing to give you the
2-hole tank that came originally with the VoltsRabbit kit. Back
in 1995 or thereabouts, in my early attempts to get the vacuum
system working reliably, Mike Brown sent me a 4-hole tank, which
is what I am using now. My 2-hole tank is on the shelf gathering
dust. I kept the 2-hole tank in case my 4-hole design I have now
leaked badly at the tank, but I think things are sealed well
enough I don't need the 2-hole tank. The only issue with the
2-hole tank is it has a slight yellowish haze from when they
painted the car back in 1996. I had to clean up the battery
racks, motor and other stuff since they did not cover up these
components (I should've thought to request that) - the paintshop
probably figured the paint would not adhere to parts (being
greasy in a ICE car).
KTA also has vacuum tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 7:15 PM
Subject: Vac Reservoir fabbing
> Dangitall! In trying to locate a vacuum leak, I
> must've made a small crack larger, or started a crack
> by using teflon tape. At the holes where the brass
> fittings go, there are hairline fissures now. My
> questions:
> 1) Do you use black ABS plastic like the one I
> purchased?
> 2) What type of plastic sealant do you use, should I
> choose to fab one, instead of getting a replacement
> from the same manufacturer?
> 3) What do you cut the threads in with?
> Seems to me I'll be better off purchasing 4" dia ABS,
> 2 end caps, and the epoxy, plus a tapping tool, by the
> time I add shipping and profit.
> Eager to get my rig on the road,
>
> =====
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the
steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon wrote "I recently purchased the following switching power supplies to
use as DC to
DC converters for my motorcycle.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3841986181
Up until now I have been using a seperate auxillary battery to power my my
lights, which works fine, it just has to be charged seperately. Now that I
am getting ready to install these instead or in conjucntion with the battery
I am wondering what kind of isolation issues I might introduce. For the most
part the lights on the bike have the frame connected as ground. Will I be
introducing a path from my traction pack to the frame of the bike if I use
these? They did not come with schematics."
I checked the specs listed at the auction, and have a few questions. These
units appear to only convert down -15volts and have only 1amp of output when
doing so. So I do not see how they can work to operate your headlights or
any other lights. As these lights require far more than 1amp of power (your
headlight should be between 5 and 10amps alone) at a maximum 15volts (which
means your battery pack voltage can be a maximum 30volts). Running a 12 volt
light at 16 volts or more will greatly reduce its life span. Or did I read
something wrong?
As for sharing ground paths, we do it all the time. Many big trucks run a
dual 12 volt and 24 volt set up with a shared ground path ( truck frame). So
there is no problem there.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great Idea Cliff
> A ten year, ten race series for electric cars built to \'street\'car like
> rules, raced on a closed circuit road racing track. One race per year with
> gradually increasing distance requirements. Starting Year 1 with 22 miles,
Is there a track near where your at where this could be done? Could this be
done where street legal car could enter without putting roll cages in ,
Steve clunn
> the distance the average US commuter drives to work (according to
> http://www.theorator.com/bills107/hr1012.html (section 2 #6)). Each year
the
> distance should be increased. By year 10, the cars should race 150 miles.
> The objective is to start with a fast exciting race that helps dispel
> battery powered cars public \'golf cart\' image. Then each year, raise the
> bar to force technological improvement. Increasing race length will
> encourage technologic innovation such as quick charging pit stops, higher
> energy density batteries, integrated regenerative braking, improved
battery
> management systems, increased efficiency.
> While victory is likely to regularly go to professional teams, wide
> publicity and a guarantied ten year series will encourage grass level
racing
> efforts. Developing the cars at club racing levels should be encouraged by
> tailoring the rules to make the cars eligible for regional series such as
> Sports Car Club of America\'s SPU class. This will increase exposure and
> development. For an example of such a race car see www.ProEV.com.
>
--- End Message ---
