EV Digest 3833
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Vego/Powersonic group buy.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Traction Control (was First EV Sports Car)
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Range doubling device diagrams
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Range doubling device diagrams
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Range doubling device diagrams
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mi: stupidity fries chrgr, susp., transm., and brake
booster noises
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Disc motor coils for use with Etek magnets
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) What is flashover? Was Re: Worst outcome of minor brush arcing
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Gary Starr Fiero purchase
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: TEVan and stupid EV mistakes
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mi: stupidity fries chrgr, susp., transm., and brake
booster noises
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 54V generator?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Fw: Range doubling device diagrams
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 54V generator?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 54V generator?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 54V generator?
by Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Learning from one's Mistakes
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Learning from one's Mistakes
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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All who have the Vego Scooters with no batteries take heart. Powersonic now
makes a new 10.5ah battery specially for scooters the PSH -12100. It has
the same foot print as their 7 ah battery. Two fit in the Vego 450 iq. 4
might fit in the Vego 600 but I haven't measured yet. Anyone interested in
a group buy let me know. I know I sent out some Vego Scooters without
battereries so this is your chance. They will be under 20 dollars each plus
shipping. Email me directly if interested. They have the same watt per
weight ratio as some bigger batteries. Powersonic website has the specs.
Google or Yahoo it. Lawernce Rhodes..
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John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
Philippe Borges wrote:
I suppose the Tzero can beat them in short drag race because it use traction
control...
...do sport ICE cars have it ?
Yes, in fact, most of today's higher end sport sedans and sports cars have it. Most
base
it on
the already-in-place ABS braking system...
My humble Toyota 4Runner has this too.
However at ~3800lbs and 186hp, it only comes into play
on the snow... but its the same idea.
Its probobally quite common these days.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
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http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/back%20EMF%20diagram.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20prototype.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20system%20diagram.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Inductive%20load%20diagram.JPG
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Voltage%20Pulse%20Diagram.JPG
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shouldn't that web address be www.tilley.com?
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/back%20EMF%20diagram.JPG
>
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20prototype.JPG
>
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20system%20diagram.JPG
>
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Inductive%20load%20diagram.JPG
>
http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Voltage%20Pulse%20Diagram.JPG
>
>
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Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/back%20EMF%20diagram.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20prototype.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20system%20diagram.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Inductive%20load%20diagram.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Voltage%20Pulse%20Diagram.JPG
Pretty pictures, but they don't say anything of substance.
Yes, you can store energy in an inductor; but the energy you get back
out is the same as you put in. Since real inductors always have losses,
as a practical matter you always get less back than you put in.
The same is true for capacitors. You always lose a little. No
combination of resistors and capacitors can ever produce more energy
than you put into it.
The only way you're going to get any "range doubling" with
inductor-capacitor circuits is when you use them to REPLACE a dropping
resistor. As we all know, PWM controllers (which use inductors,
capacitors, and switches) are more efficient than resistors. But they
are still less than 100% efficient.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hear hear! As I'm learning about this EV thing, and as I kept going up in
voltage on my Fiat project, I noticed that there did not seem to be a work
session I did not get startled, sometimes so much that I'd smack my knuckles
on something painful, by BIG "zorches" that I did not expect. Hmmmm. THAT is
why the pack disconnect was there!
I'm glad I'm not the only person who tried to shave off just a little time,
and ended up buying parts to replace the vaporized ones. I think in the
future I will just imagine that rule three is not an option.... And stick
with One and Two. That being said... I think I'll go outside and add another
battery to the car.
Kevin
================================================================
> <snip> I broke 3 VERY SERIOUS RULES of working with EVs, novices:
> 1) Don't work on the car without pulling the breaker;
> 2) Don't work on the car while it's charging.
> 3) If you brake rules 1 & 2, make DAMN sure you're using insulated
wrenches!
>
> So here I am, driving my brother's Integra, waiting for parts and repairs,
and > feeling pretty stupid.
> Maybe someone else can benefit from my mistake.
>
> =====
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
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Hi All,
With the electric finally back on I thought it
was time to do something.
I need a good motor, comtroller so figured I
could do it myself at a better quality, lower costs
and with a low cost, redundent, bldc, owner repairable
controller!
I have most of the design finished for the
motor but need some advice on the coil sizes, ect to
start with.
I found some speaker crossover coils that
looked like they would work. They are various 14gge
sizes.
I'm assuming that the one with the most
inductance for the DC resistance is what I want, ie a
.60uH at .15dc ohms would give me 330 amps at 50vdc or
would it be a lot less from the inductance?
Is that good or go .15uH at .07dc ohms or .90uH
at.20 ohms for more power, eff? 200-300 peak amps is
what I'm looking for. Or go larger wire size like
12gge?
Any place with good prices on flattened donut
shaped coils, coil wire that would be good for this?
Should I put as much transformer lams in it as
possible for higher eff? How much less torque, eff
will I get if I leave the lams out?
I'm stuck with 8 E-tek magnets arranged 4 on a
side rotors with the coils stationary inbetween.
Should I use a steel plate to mount them on as a mag
field return for more eff or is that needed as I'd
like to use alum that is lighter and removes heat
better?
With using 6 coils, cogging, dead spots would
lessen and more even torque would result though may go
for more.
Any thoughs on how to make it better?
Thanks,
jerry dycus
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's actually barely a hiss....
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 9:35 PM
> Subject: Re: What is the worst outcome of minor
> brush arcing
>
>
> > If arcing is loud enough to hear, then flashover
> > is a likely possibility. I'll leave it to our
> drag
> > racing gurus to describe what flashover is.
> >
> BANG!....
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Messenger - Communicate in real time. Download now.
http://messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What in the devil is this guy up to? From all the different style
conversions he's apparently been trying to get his hands on, sounds like
he's trying to open a used EV car lot. Only thing I can think of is that
he's trying to get them for nothing and then turn around and sell them for
cash, so he can get some quick money.
-----Original Message-----
From: Shawn Waggoner
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 10/1/2004 7:36 PM
Subject: RE: Gary Starr Fiero purchase
Earlier this year, when we were trying to sell the Tropica (Brad's new
one), Gary offered us stock instead of cash, and then tried a 50/50
deal. We of course, turned down both deals. (I'm sure Brad's happier for
it!)
On the flip-side, at the time the stock was trading for $.61/share, now
it's at $1.83/share. Bad move? Who knows what you'll get a year from
now. However, the old saying comes to mind; "A bird in the hand..."
Good luck,
Shawn Waggoner
Florida EAA
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 18:38
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Gary Starr Fiero purchase
Yeah someone offered me $2500.00 for my Henney Kilowatt OR $5,000 in zap
stock.
I told him cash only, no stock. He didn't contact me back.
James
Quoting Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > The guy I sold my electric Fiero to claims that Gary wants to buy
it
>
> > from him using $6000 in Zap stock and $1000 cash.
>
> Zap stock is akin to worthless, imo, so the offer is $1000 for an
> electric Fiero. Zap may not even be here in a year.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX - 801-749-7807
> message - 866-872-8901
>
>
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I thought I would add this to the current post
by Bob Bath and others who have blown stuff up.
In the process of replacing the IGBT's in my van
I reconnected the battery negative bus bar to the
control to the one just adjacent (which is easy to
do on this design).
Well, this is batt+ to the control.
In the haste of repairing on a Friday night at 9PM
after getting towed home I wasn't paying attention.
The control card should detect this and issue a fault
code. It will not pull in the line contactor because
it detects user stupidity. For some reason it didn't
and closed the main contactor anyhow.
This is how I blew the Batt+ and Batt- fuses.
So, moral of the story is check everything and if you
have to leave it, wake up the next day with a clear
mind and re-check everything.
Not the first stupid mistake and probably not the
last!
Rod
100 miles since IGBT replacement and running well.
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Kevin Coughlin wrote:
> Hear hear! ... I'm glad I'm not the only person who tried to shave
> off just a little time, and ended up buying parts to replace the
> vaporized ones.
I second the notion! The only reason us old-timers seem smart is because
we've already made plenty of the mistakes (and were lucky enough to
live).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
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The description is a tad confusing, so is this 54V propane/NG generator or what:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3843474288
--- End Message ---
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Oops. Jumped the gun on these. The links are closed. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Zappylist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: Range doubling device diagrams
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/back%20EMF%20diagram.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20prototype.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/BECS%20system%20diagram.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Inductive%20load%20diagram.JPG
> http://home.jps.net/~bassoon/Diagrams/Voltage%20Pulse%20Diagram.JPG
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I did a google search and ended up with
this....http://www.cedmagazine.com/scte2001/pe.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote;
The description is a tad confusing, so is this 54V propane/NG generator or what:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3843474288
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On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 16:57:17 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>The description is a tad confusing, so is this 54V propane/NG generator or what:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3843474288
This is a 48 volt DC supply for powering telecom and cable TV systems. it
can be either a backup to line power or the primary power source.
You can read about it here:
http://www.alpha.com/catalog/catalog.asp?catid=3&JumpID=613&lc=1
Push the little "documents" button to get to the operation and service
manual.
This unit does not look to be complete. The engine/generator unit is
exactly the same unit as with my Generac Impact 36G generator installed in
my RV. This is a variable speed system that uses an external 60 hz
inverter to generate the output. The power head itself outputs high
frequency high voltage 3 phase power from a PM alternator built into the
flywheel. The output is in the 300 volt range, depending on the engine
speed and load. The inverter PWMs this into a very clean 60 hz sine wave.
All the components I can see in the picture and read about in the manual
are identical to mine. I'm going to bet that there is an external
rectifier/controller that converts the generator output to 48vdc. That
appears to not be present on the Ebay unit.
Assuming the power converter is not there, about the only use this power
head would have would be to someone who has a generator like mine. or
someone who wants to build his own converter.
I paid just a bit over $1200 for my complete unit, ready to run. I'd not
give over 3-400 bux for a power head that had been Sleezbayed.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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The description also states the unit has been run for
3 seconds, however the hour meter reads 3/10 of an
hour which equates to 18 minutes of run time. This may
seem ticky tack but it only ads to my distrust of the
sellers actual knowledge base for the unit he is
selling. Looking at the fuel metering block it appears
that the unit is at present set up to run on natural
gas. Changing it to run on propane would take less
that 5 minutes on this unit.
Chimer Clark (kimeplex)
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The description is a tad confusing, so is this 54V
> propane/NG generator or what:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3843474288
>
>
__________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
>From Kevin Coughlin:
> Hear hear! ... I'm glad I'm not the only person who tried to shave
> off just a little time, and ended up buying parts to replace the
> vaporized ones.
Lee Hart wrote:
> The only reason us old-timers seem smart is because
> we've already made plenty of the mistakes (and were lucky enough to
> live).
Yeah...they don't call me Plasma Boy for nothing!
See Ya.....John Wayland
Plasma Boy Racing...We blow stuff up, so you don't have to!
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One of the saddest feelings is when you vaporize something and don't learn
anything from it.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2004 10:25 PM
Subject: Learning from one's Mistakes
> Hello to All,
>
> >From Kevin Coughlin:
>
> > Hear hear! ... I'm glad I'm not the only person who tried to shave
> > off just a little time, and ended up buying parts to replace the
> > vaporized ones.
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > The only reason us old-timers seem smart is because
> > we've already made plenty of the mistakes (and were lucky enough to
> > live).
>
> Yeah...they don't call me Plasma Boy for nothing!
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
> Plasma Boy Racing...We blow stuff up, so you don't have to!
>
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