EV Digest 3870
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Newbie questions
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) wheel motors you can buy..
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Precharge Resistor Required?
by "Patrick Maston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) brake light flashing circuit
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Precharge Resistor Required?
by "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Precharge Resistor Required?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) New Volvo concept EV
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: lackabrains
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: What tricks have you implemented to reduce drag? Need ideas.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Fwd: New Volvo concept EV
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Isolation - is a relay valid?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Isolation - is a relay valid?
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
by Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Recall: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
by Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
by Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Scooter battery balancer
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Battery Heaters - what do you use?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: brake light flashing circuit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Fw: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries: Warning or just trying to scare me.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Scooter battery balancer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Available, no pricing yet (Re: .li-polymer bats.)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: wheel motors you can buy..
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Precharge Resistor Required?
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re:Current Eliminator News
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: CEs zilla controller
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
29) RE: Fw: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries: Warning or just trying to scare me.
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Li-ion booster pack. Re: Fw: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries: Warning or just trying to
scare me.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries: Warning or just trying to scare me.
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Gotta' read Mike Brown's "Convert It".
Best $20-25 you'll spend on EVs.
--- "a.k. howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Newbie questions
> >Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 23:49:33 -0500
> >
> >Hello all-
> >
> >I just subscribed to this list, trying to learn a
> bit about EVs. I'm not
> >necessarily looking to buy or do an EV car, but
> with a 4.5 mile commute
> >(each way) in a warm climate I've been thinking an
> EV motorcycle might be
> >a good thing. Can anybody suggest a book that would
> be a good starting
> >point for somebody new to EVs? I saw several texts
> listed on the various
> >web sites, which is best? Also, any EV enthusiasts
> in the Memphis, TN
> >area? Not holding my breath, mind you.
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Eric S
> >Germantown TN
> >
>
> Greetings Eric, and welcome. I thought for a
> start an ebike type
> arrrangement might work well. A number of good
> ebikes and conversion kits
> are available today. Hopefully you have a safe place
> at work to lock it up.
> Might want to check out this mailing list, which I
> am a member of.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/
>
> Good luck. Regards, A.K. Howard, Las Vegas,
> Nevada. (formerly of Memphis)
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all:
I have listed my 93 EVcourt for sale on ebay.
Interested parties should surf over there or contact
me to discuss its pending sale. Ebay auction number
2496865680 or web page at
www.austinev.org/evalbum/186.html
Jim Donovan
________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Spotted these over on another list
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/wheelmotors.html
example:
EW 30/60
Peak Stall Torque (30 sec) 640 Nm
Continuous Stall Torque 160 Nm
Power 14400 Watts
Speed 900 RPM
Weight 18kg
They also have a stepper controller, available up to 72V.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it really necessary to use a Precharge Resistor on a Curtis 1231C
controller if the contactor being used has magnetic blowouts?
Thanks,
Patrick
1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.designnews.com/contents/pdf/gadget102504.pdf
This was in Design news.
You could probably use this as an input to a regen
circuit.
Thought some on the list would interested.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes it is necessary to limit the inrush current to the controller. The
magnetic blowout is used to make the arc extinguish when the contactor
opens, it does nothing for contactor closures.
A trick I used was to have the voltmeter act as the precharge
resistor. Not much current flows through the voltmeter so it precharges
the controller slower. It took about 5 seconds to precharge the 1231C
that I was using.
I think Michael Everett still uses the same circuit.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Maston
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:18 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Precharge Resistor Required?
Is it really necessary to use a Precharge Resistor on a Curtis 1231C
controller if the contactor being used has magnetic blowouts?
Thanks,
Patrick
1981 Jet Electrica
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Precharge circuits can be as simple or complicated as you want them to be.
On my motorcycle I simply have a 6ohm resister in series with a pushbutton
switch across my main contactor. It is located right next to the key. I
insert the key, hold down the button for a few seconds then turn the key.
This is by no means fail safe, as I or anyone can simply insert and turn the
key, but it is simple, and since a precharge circuit is not required, just a
good idea for extending the life of the controller, it works for me.
From: "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Precharge Resistor Required?
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:52:30 -0700
Yes it is necessary to limit the inrush current to the controller. The
magnetic blowout is used to make the arc extinguish when the contactor
opens, it does nothing for contactor closures.
A trick I used was to have the voltmeter act as the precharge
resistor. Not much current flows through the voltmeter so it precharges
the controller slower. It took about 5 seconds to precharge the 1231C
that I was using.
I think Michael Everett still uses the same circuit.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Maston
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:18 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Precharge Resistor Required?
Is it really necessary to use a Precharge Resistor on a Curtis 1231C
controller if the contactor being used has magnetic blowouts?
Thanks,
Patrick
1981 Jet Electrica
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just read this artical about a Volvo 3 seat concept vehicle. Although the
prototype is an EV are leaving their options open for the traction system.
The same article also mentions a very Tango like tandem seating prototype.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6281335/
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, it is pretty dumb for forbes to miss the economy of scale that would
reduce the sticker price. Looks like they didn't do a lot of research on
this one. Just another fluff piece.
At 10/25/2004 08:19 AM, you wrote:
http://www.forbes.com/execpicks/2003/10/21/cx_dl_1021vow.html
The good part: AC Propulsion's tzero roadster is a reason to not give up
on the electric
vehicle.
The Dumb part: Of course, AC Propulsion, a specialist in electric
vehicles, must realize
that demand for electric cars has toppled.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Westlund wrote:
> I used the coefficient drag, weight, and frontal area
> figures provided by the manufactures of respective cars,
> which has lead me to investigate how people manage to get
> these numbers in efficiency.
Part of the problem is that the published figures are only
approximations. And, they are measured with all sorts of different test
methods, so the figures for different cars are not always directly
comparable.
The errors are so large that a difference of Cd*A = 6.8 (1992 Geo Metro)
and Cd*A = 6.5 Triumph Spitfire) is not significant. All you can say is
that they have "the same" aerodynamic drag.
Small changes make a big difference! Tires, wheel alignment, outside
mirrors, dragging brakes, cleaning up the underside by removing
extraneous windcatchers, plugging the grille and air vents, and even the
front/rear riding height all have a much larger effect than the
difference between similar cars. Put poor tires on a great car, and
there goes your range.
I would suggest not getting obsessive about Cd and frontal area numbers
when picking the car. The most important thing is that you have to like
the car, or you'll never finish it or never drive it! So, start with a
(short) list of vehicles that you basically like.
Next, get your range via attention to detail. A nice thing about EVs is
that it is easy to measure the amount of power it actually uses to go
down the road (battery amps x volts). This means you can make changes,
tweak things, etc. and see for yourself what works!
Finally, if this is your first EV, it's best not to get too ambitious.
You can't get low cost, great range, terrific accelleration and handling
all at the same time.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just read this artical about a Volvo 3 seat concept vehicle. Although the
> prototype is an EV are leaving their options open for the traction system.
> The same article also mentions a very Tango like tandem seating prototype.
>
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6281335/
This article mentions the car running on 3000 laptop batteries. They also said the
batteries are
currently selling for about US $3.50 a piece. Has anyone used these? Are they really
available in
quantity around this price? (new, not bulk lot's of used batteries from ebay)
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
>> I am thinking about electric battery heaters. If the power for
>> the heater is run off the main pack, but the thermostatic control
>> is run from the 12v system, are relays good enough to act as
>> electrical isolation between the high voltage and low voltage
>> systems?
I'm wondering why you are powering the heater from the pack? Why run the
pack down to heat itself?
It is more common to power the battery heaters from AC, while you are
plugged in (and optionally charging).
Joe Smalley wrote:
> Yes, a relay is adequate isolation.
It can be... but "automotive grade" relays (i.e. cheap ones) have
negligible breakdown voltages. Use *only* a relay that has a UL, CSA,
CE, VDE, or other agency listing, and is clearly marked with a high
enough voltage rating for your pack voltage.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
...
An easiest solution may be to drop the input voltage using off-shelf
autotransformer on the input side.
Victor
1. Increase the value of the AC capacitor. This is easy, but also
alters the charging current. For a small voltage change this is
acceptable.
2. Remove turns or tap down on the transformer secondary to lower
its voltage.
3. Add a separate autotransformer to drop the secondary voltage a
bit. This is easy if you can find such a transformer, but that
will be a challenge. It would need a 25amp winding with taps at
36v and 33v (to drop the voltage about 1v per 12v battery).
4. Add a few extra diodes in series with the charger output, to drop
the voltage. You'll need 25a diodes on a big heatsink!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart writes:
>
>
> I'm wondering why you are powering the heater from the pack? Why run the
> pack down to heat itself?
This brings up a question I've had for a while: does the energy required
to keep the batteries warm reduce the car's range more or less than the
effects of having a cold pack?
In my case, my batteries will be in heated, insulated battery boxes. The
individual battery heaters (from Metric Mind) are powered with 12vdc from
a very stout DC/DC. I have the option of running the heaters at any time,
so if it's beneficial I can let the heaters run as needed. Otherwise I
can restrict the heaters to run only while the car is charging.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have to ask you guys: What do you think the chances of me selling the car
as like, a project to complete, are? In my perfect world, someone gives me
$4000, takes whole shabang, AND keeps running and updating the site...but I
know that won't happen.
I'd just like to hear your (plural) thoughts on the matter. Should I give
it up? Can I find a buyer who would continue the project? Hell, do you
think it's worth to have a car in college?
Thanks,
-A very drained, Jeff
Jeff;
I'll take the whole shabang, AND keep running and updating the site...
If you'll take 334 per month for 12 months (154 bi-weekly).
Hey, can't hurt to ask.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Tim Humphrey
Central NY
P.S. the phrase is... "Giving up the ghost" .... as in dead, the soul
leaving the body.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The sender would like to recall the message, "Giving up the goat? Advice on
my EV Project.".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Obviously, this was private....
stupid reply button....
Stay Charged!
Hump
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 4:05 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
I have to ask you guys: What do you think the chances of me selling the car
as like, a project to complete, are? In my perfect world, someone gives me
$4000, takes whole shabang, AND keeps running and updating the site...but I
know that won't happen.
I'd just like to hear your (plural) thoughts on the matter. Should I give
it up? Can I find a buyer who would continue the project? Hell, do you
think it's worth to have a car in college?
Thanks,
-A very drained, Jeff
Jeff;
I'll take the whole shabang, AND keep running and updating the site...
If you'll take 334 per month for 12 months (154 bi-weekly).
Hey, can't hurt to ask.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Tim Humphrey
Central NY
P.S. the phrase is... "Giving up the ghost" .... as in dead, the soul
leaving the body.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, Victor,
thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I have an unbalanced pack
I have two 200Ah Gel batteries giving me 12V and two more 100Ah SLA
batteries for 36V total (thats just what it came with) When its time
to replace the batts I will most likely go for a matched set of
flooded golf cart batts but until then I needed a solution
that could charge all my batts without overcharging the smaller/weaker
ones. (I have an OK monitoring in place not to reverse the smaller
batts and stop using it when the first one is at 20% DOD)
So my current solution is
1. if I have enough time:
- hook up my three 12V soleil chargers adjusted to 14.1V finish voltage,
the longest it took me to recharge them was about 30h so far (which
would correspond to less than 60Ah because of the tapering off of the
current towards the end and the losses)
2. if I am in a hurry
- run the main charger with the timer set to max. 2 hours, then finish
with the soleil chargers
I am a bit sick of connecting 3 chargers and would like an automated
solution that
prevents me from overcharging if I do option no. 1 and/or allows me to
automatically switch from bulk (built in 25A) to finish charge (soleil) for
option 2.
I initially thought the automatic switching is as simple as having the main
charger charge up to 14.1V on the first battery - a little circuit like that
from
Lee would then switch on a relay which triggered shut the main charger and
turned the
modular chargers on .... however if the modular chargers are turned on with
the bat voltage relatively high then they think the battery is full and go
into float ... but the
battery was never fully charged. One solution would be to shut the main
charger of say at
13.5V which leaves quite a bit for the small smart chargers to do and lets
them go through their charge cycle.
Alternatively I am thinking if it would hurt anything if the main 36V
charger and the three 12V chargers would be charging in parallel. Soleil has
hook up diagrams that show that you could hook up several smart chargers in
parallel and in series which lead me to believe that the approach would be
fine. This would allow the smart chargers to go through the full cycle and I
could let the main charger drop out when the first batt reaches something
like 14V or so.
I would like to end up with a solution that is not (only)
tailored to my current batteries but would also make sense when I
have a new set of batts, e.g. floodies.
Markus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> Sent: Montag, 25. Oktober 2004 15:54
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Scooter battery balancer
>
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> > ...
>
> An easiest solution may be to drop the input voltage using off-shelf
> autotransformer on the input side.
>
> Victor
>
> >
> >1. Increase the value of the AC capacitor. This is easy, but also
> > alters the charging current. For a small voltage change this is
> > acceptable.
> >
> >2. Remove turns or tap down on the transformer secondary to lower
> > its voltage.
> >
> >3. Add a separate autotransformer to drop the secondary voltage a
> > bit. This is easy if you can find such a transformer, but that
> > will be a challenge. It would need a 25amp winding with taps at
> > 36v and 33v (to drop the voltage about 1v per 12v battery).
> >
> >4. Add a few extra diodes in series with the charger output, to drop
> > the voltage. You'll need 25a diodes on a big heatsink!
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I notice Victor has self stick ones on his web site.
thanks
Don
Stick ones? What stick ones? :-)
If you notices them Don, yopu also probably noticed that I have removed
them.
Too few people asked for them over the years. But if you'll want them,
I'll get them for you.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Darn. I thought maybe someone had EV'd a GTO...
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
Obviously, this was private....
stupid reply button....
Stay Charged!
Hump
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Humphrey Timothy H Contr AFRL/IFEC
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 4:05 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Giving up the goat? Advice on my EV Project.
I have to ask you guys: What do you think the chances of me selling the
car
as like, a project to complete, are? In my perfect world, someone gives
me
$4000, takes whole shabang, AND keeps running and updating the site...but
I
know that won't happen.
I'd just like to hear your (plural) thoughts on the matter. Should I give
it up? Can I find a buyer who would continue the project? Hell, do you
think it's worth to have a car in college?
Thanks,
-A very drained, Jeff
Jeff;
I'll take the whole shabang, AND keep running and updating the site...
If you'll take 334 per month for 12 months (154 bi-weekly).
Hey, can't hurt to ask.
Stay Charged!
Hump
Tim Humphrey
Central NY
P.S. the phrase is... "Giving up the ghost" .... as in dead, the soul
leaving the body.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I remember right, they use to sell kits doing this, but they were
outlawed as distracting flashing every time you brake makes more
harm than good. At least that was declared as a reason.
You can sure built this, but make sure it is legal in your state.
Victor
'91ACRX - something different
Rod Hower wrote:
http://www.designnews.com/contents/pdf/gadget102504.pdf
This was in Design news.
You could probably use this as an input to a regen
circuit.
Thought some on the list would interested.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I inquired to Marathon about the BB600 batteries. I don't know weather to
cry, sell them to John Wayland or buy a Zilla from Otmar. Lawrence
Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Elkjer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
Lawrence,
I think that you should understand a little more about what you have on your
hands. These are not a typical nickel cadmium cell. They are manufactured to
perform in very extreme environments as found on tactical (fighter)
aircraft. They are designed to put out 1,000 to 1,800 amps per cell. The
list price for these cells is $466 each. From your response I can see that
you have done some research on basic, low cost, low quality, low drain,
battery systems - these are not in that category. Adding things such as
mineral oil would not only not be of any benefit it could be dangerous.
Automatic watering systems are used in low end systems and should never be
used with these cells. The addition of water to these cells should only be
done under very controlled circumstances and only by a trained technician.
Charging should only be done with an approved aviation grade charger. A
special plastic wrench (P/N 16979-001, $24.27 ea.) is used for the removal
of the vent caps. The intercell connectors are copper / nickel plated have a
list price range from $12.93 to $8.75 each. The screws are $5.10 each. and
you will need both a "Bellville" and a flat washer for each terminal. And
you will need the appropriate temperature sensing system. In short you have
some very expensive cells that should not be used for the application that
you suggest. DO NOT use them with homemade hardware. DO NOT experiment with
them unless you get some training or consult a trained engineer. If you
decide to dispose of them please do so in a safe manner, depositing them in
the garbage is not only illegal it is very dangerous. If you need any
further assistance please call me.
Best regards,
Tom Elkjer
254-741-5410
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:55 PM
To: Tom Elkjer
Subject: Re: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
I am using them to drive an electric car. They were sold as surplus. It
will be three units of one hundred each. If I can get the orginal buss
plates, screws etc.. Is there an automatic watering system. I would be
interested.I also need tools to take off the caps to add water and I heard a
few drops of mineral oil in each cell has some benefit. Any information
about maintainance and charging as well as what kind of charger to use would
be beneficial. I was thinking a plastic wrench or socket would be used to
take the caps off. . Make things safer. Thank you Tom. Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Elkjer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
The BB600A/A is a military battery designed for use on military aircraft.
Documents on these batteries and their components are controlled and not
available to the general public. I don't quite understand what you are
doing. I assume that you have acquired some surplus military batteries. Are
you going to try to assemble 3 units of 10 cells each into a subset to be
charged in parallel? And then assemble 10 subsets into 1 120VDC battery?
Why? What are you doing?
Best regards,
Tom Elkjer
254-741-5410
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:12 PM
To: Tom Elkjer
Subject: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
Is there still documentation on these batteries? I want to assemble them
into 120v strings. I will have three strings. Can I use one charger to
charge these in parallel? That will be 300 battery cells at 1040 pounds.
Thanks Tom. Lawrence Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Arew you saying you have two 6V 200Ah batteries (12V in series total) AND
two 100Ah 12V batteries (24V total) ALL connected in series for 36V output?
If so, in general you cannot balance them if charge all this mixture in
series.
Victor
Markus L wrote:
Lee, Victor,
thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, I have an unbalanced pack
I have two 200Ah Gel batteries giving me 12V and two more 100Ah SLA
batteries for 36V total (thats just what it came with) When its time
to replace the batts I will most likely go for a matched set of
flooded golf cart batts but until then I needed a solution
that could charge all my batts without overcharging the smaller/weaker
ones. (I have an OK monitoring in place not to reverse the smaller
batts and stop using it when the first one is at 20% DOD)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cliff Rassweiler wrote:
Steve,
Based on what I have seen with the Kokam batteries, these specs are
not unbelievable. Comments inserted:
Speaking of these, you can see the specs on metric mind site. I don't have
pricing info yet, it is being settled. At least everyone can make a note
that
these are made available.
Cliff, I have a link to your page as an example of the vehicle using
Kokam's cells.
Hope you don't mind (I should have asked first).
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I can buy them, then from where and for how much? (a web search
found no retailers)
-Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:06 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: wheel motors you can buy..
Spotted these over on another list
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/wheelmotors.html
example:
EW 30/60
Peak Stall Torque (30 sec) 640 Nm
Continuous Stall Torque 160 Nm
Power 14400 Watts
Speed 900 RPM
Weight 18kg
They also have a stepper controller, available up to 72V.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My sparrow shipped with a resistor in parallel across the main
contactor. The caps were kept charged all the time. I'm sure this led
to some standby loss... (probably quite a bit if the car wasn't driven
often)... But if you drive everyday (and charge every day), then it
wouldn't be too bad. Are there other drawbacks?
-Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 9:04 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Precharge Resistor Required?
Precharge circuits can be as simple or complicated as you want them to
be.
On my motorcycle I simply have a 6ohm resister in series with a
pushbutton
switch across my main contactor. It is located right next to the key.
I
insert the key, hold down the button for a few seconds then turn the
key.
This is by no means fail safe, as I or anyone can simply insert and turn
the
key, but it is simple, and since a precharge circuit is not required,
just a
good idea for extending the life of the controller, it works for me.
>From: "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Precharge Resistor Required?
>Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:52:30 -0700
>
>Yes it is necessary to limit the inrush current to the controller. The
>magnetic blowout is used to make the arc extinguish when the contactor
>opens, it does nothing for contactor closures.
>
> A trick I used was to have the voltmeter act as the precharge
>resistor. Not much current flows through the voltmeter so it precharges
>the controller slower. It took about 5 seconds to precharge the 1231C
>that I was using.
>
> I think Michael Everett still uses the same circuit.
>
>Pat
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Patrick Maston
>Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 8:18 AM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Precharge Resistor Required?
>
>Is it really necessary to use a Precharge Resistor on a Curtis 1231C
>controller if the contactor being used has magnetic blowouts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Patrick
>1981 Jet Electrica
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
FREE!
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
She has been turned into a show car,Remy is now the sponsor of the CE.....The
Current Eliminator will be in Vegas at the apec show hanging on the wall with
a national timing tree also in the booth.Great prizes givin each hour if you
have great reaction times.Watch for CE6 in 2005,all my old nedra records WILL
be BLOWN AWAY............. Dennis Kilowatt Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CEs record breaking zilla is on the ev trading post 4sale
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there something new in this that you didn't already know? These cells
are made for very high discharge rates, so you have to be careful with them.
The hardware prices he is quoting you are what airplane manufacturers have
to pay for things brand new. The aircraft industry needs things
manufactured to very exacting specs, and they pay for that. You can use
anything you want as interconnects as long as they meet your needs. One
thing you did know going into this is that watering would be a major pain.
It's not that bad however if you have good access to the cells. I can water
the 44 cells on my motorcycle in about a half hour. That would translate
into a full afternoon project for you, but they don't need watering that
often. My tools consist of a taped up hex wrench and a childrens medicine
syringe with a piece of 10 guage wire insulation on the end which inserts
into the cell. If you are planning on having the FAA come out and inspect
your EV then you might need some special training and sophisticated
equipment. If not simply charge them up and go for a ride. You've already
gotten enough information from this list to keep them healthy for a very
long time.
damon
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Zappylist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fw: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries: Warning or just trying to scare me.
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 14:01:02 -0700
I inquired to Marathon about the BB600 batteries. I don't know weather to
cry, sell them to John Wayland or buy a Zilla from Otmar. Lawrence
Rhodes.........
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Elkjer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
Lawrence,
I think that you should understand a little more about what you have on
your hands. These are not a typical nickel cadmium cell. They are
manufactured to perform in very extreme environments as found on tactical
(fighter) aircraft. They are designed to put out 1,000 to 1,800 amps per
cell. The list price for these cells is $466 each. From your response I
can see that you have done some research on basic, low cost, low quality,
low drain, battery systems - these are not in that category. Adding things
such as mineral oil would not only not be of any benefit it could be
dangerous. Automatic watering systems are used in low end systems and
should never be used with these cells. The addition of water to these cells
should only be done under very controlled circumstances and only by a
trained technician. Charging should only be done with an approved aviation
grade charger. A special plastic wrench (P/N 16979-001, $24.27 ea.) is used
for the removal of the vent caps. The intercell connectors are copper /
nickel plated have a list price range from $12.93 to $8.75 each. The screws
are $5.10 each. and you will need both a "Bellville" and a flat washer for
each terminal. And you will need the appropriate temperature sensing
system. In short you have some very expensive cells that should not be used
for the application that you suggest. DO NOT use them with homemade
hardware. DO NOT experiment with them unless you get some training or
consult a trained engineer. If you decide to dispose of them please do so
in a safe manner, depositing them in the garbage is not only illegal it is
very dangerous. If you need any further assistance please call me.
Best regards,
Tom Elkjer
254-741-5410
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:55 PM
To: Tom Elkjer
Subject: Re: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
I am using them to drive an electric car. They were sold as surplus. It
will be three units of one hundred each. If I can get the orginal buss
plates, screws etc.. Is there an automatic watering system. I would be
interested.I also need tools to take off the caps to add water and I heard
a
few drops of mineral oil in each cell has some benefit. Any information
about maintainance and charging as well as what kind of charger to use
would
be beneficial. I was thinking a plastic wrench or socket would be used to
take the caps off. . Make things safer. Thank you Tom. Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Elkjer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:29 AM
Subject: RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
The BB600A/A is a military battery designed for use on military aircraft.
Documents on these batteries and their components are controlled and not
available to the general public. I don't quite understand what you are
doing. I assume that you have acquired some surplus military batteries. Are
you going to try to assemble 3 units of 10 cells each into a subset to be
charged in parallel? And then assemble 10 subsets into 1 120VDC battery?
Why? What are you doing?
Best regards,
Tom Elkjer
254-741-5410
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:12 PM
To: Tom Elkjer
Subject: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
Is there still documentation on these batteries? I want to assemble them
into 120v strings. I will have three strings. Can I use one charger to
charge these in parallel? That will be 300 battery cells at 1040 pounds.
Thanks Tom. Lawrence Rhodes.........
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I inquired to Marathon about the BB600 batteries. I
> don't know weather to
> cry, sell them to John Wayland or buy a Zilla from
> Otmar. Lawrence
Buy a Zilla!!!
But seriously these would make a great,
lightweight parallel booster pack for li-ions!!!! At
1800 amps and 1/2 the weight of Orbitals would allow
twice the pack voltages for the same the weight of
Orbitals.
Like for a MR2 li-ion- BB 6600 pack could be
156vdc and 1 string of 90 amphr li-ions for a 19kwhr
pack rather than 96 vdc pack of Orbitals and 2 strings
of li-ions to reach 100 mile+ range. The nicad version
would weigh a little less and cost about 1/3 less.
I found a socket of 18 mm worked well for my SAFT
ni-cad caps and would have less chance of shorting out
than a box end wrench if yours can be done that way.
You can make your own buss strips from copper and
have them plated with chrome at any motorcycle, car
chrome shop. For screws use SS or bronze you can get
from any good screw wholesaler.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
> Rhodes.........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Elkjer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:19 PM
> Subject: RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
>
>
> Lawrence,
> I think that you should understand a little more
> about what you have on your
> hands. These are not a typical nickel cadmium cell.
> They are manufactured to
> perform in very extreme environments as found on
> tactical (fighter)
> aircraft. They are designed to put out 1,000 to
> 1,800 amps per cell. The
> list price for these cells is $466 each. From your
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
maybe you can get some help from Danny Ames,
see his post from 2002 at
http://solstice.crest.org/discussion/ev/200205/msg01383.html
... he must have some experience with these batts
by now.
If that's a dead end I would try to follow the
SAFT NiCad recommendations, maybe
they would be a good start.
Markus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Montag, 25. Oktober 2004 17:01
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Zappylist
> Subject: Fw: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries: Warning or just trying
> to scare me.
>
>
> I inquired to Marathon about the BB600 batteries. I don't
> know weather to
> cry, sell them to John Wayland or buy a Zilla from Otmar. Lawrence
> Rhodes.........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Elkjer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:19 PM
> Subject: RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
>
>
> Lawrence,
> I think that you should understand a little more about what
> you have on your
> hands. These are not a typical nickel cadmium cell. They are
> manufactured to
> perform in very extreme environments as found on tactical (fighter)
> aircraft. They are designed to put out 1,000 to 1,800 amps
> per cell. The
> list price for these cells is $466 each. From your response I
> can see that
> you have done some research on basic, low cost, low quality,
> low drain,
> battery systems - these are not in that category. Adding
> things such as
> mineral oil would not only not be of any benefit it could be
> dangerous.
> Automatic watering systems are used in low end systems and
> should never be
> used with these cells. The addition of water to these cells
> should only be
> done under very controlled circumstances and only by a
> trained technician.
> Charging should only be done with an approved aviation grade
> charger. A
> special plastic wrench (P/N 16979-001, $24.27 ea.) is used
> for the removal
> of the vent caps. The intercell connectors are copper /
> nickel plated have a
> list price range from $12.93 to $8.75 each. The screws are
> $5.10 each. and
> you will need both a "Bellville" and a flat washer for each
> terminal. And
> you will need the appropriate temperature sensing system. In
> short you have
> some very expensive cells that should not be used for the
> application that
> you suggest. DO NOT use them with homemade hardware. DO NOT
> experiment with
> them unless you get some training or consult a trained
> engineer. If you
> decide to dispose of them please do so in a safe manner,
> depositing them in
> the garbage is not only illegal it is very dangerous. If you need any
> further assistance please call me.
> Best regards,
> Tom Elkjer
> 254-741-5410
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:55 PM
> To: Tom Elkjer
> Subject: Re: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
>
>
> I am using them to drive an electric car. They were sold as
> surplus. It
> will be three units of one hundred each. If I can get the
> orginal buss
> plates, screws etc.. Is there an automatic watering system.
> I would be
> interested.I also need tools to take off the caps to add
> water and I heard a
> few drops of mineral oil in each cell has some benefit. Any
> information
> about maintainance and charging as well as what kind of
> charger to use would
> be beneficial. I was thinking a plastic wrench or socket
> would be used to
> take the caps off. . Make things safer. Thank you Tom. Lawrence
> Rhodes....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Elkjer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 11:29 AM
> Subject: RE: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
>
>
> The BB600A/A is a military battery designed for use on
> military aircraft.
> Documents on these batteries and their components are
> controlled and not
> available to the general public. I don't quite understand what you are
> doing. I assume that you have acquired some surplus military
> batteries. Are
> you going to try to assemble 3 units of 10 cells each into a
> subset to be
> charged in parallel? And then assemble 10 subsets into 1
> 120VDC battery?
> Why? What are you doing?
> Best regards,
> Tom Elkjer
> 254-741-5410
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 1:12 PM
> To: Tom Elkjer
> Subject: BB 600 Ni Cad batteries
>
>
> Is there still documentation on these batteries? I want to
> assemble them
> into 120v strings. I will have three strings. Can I use one
> charger to
> charge these in parallel? That will be 300 battery cells
> at 1040 pounds.
> Thanks Tom. Lawrence Rhodes.........
>
--- End Message ---
