EV Digest 3878
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Lunch box lithium-ion EV batteries)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(All-electric vehicle provided by Southern California Edison)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Buckeye Bullet racer)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(GoinGreen's REVA GoinPlaces)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(EV Challenge)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(Hybrid 659cc Hijet Cargo micro-truck in summer 2005)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(Tianjing Electric Vehicle Research Center in Shanghai)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Battery at Zero volts?
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(Hybrid 659cc Hijet Cargo micro-truck in summer 2005)
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Good books?
by "Simon Sandvik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Charging in San Jose downtown
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Good books?
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) variable re-gen
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Battery at Zero volts?
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) EVLN(Union Pacific Low-Emission Green Goat Locomotives)
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: variable re-gen
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Battery at Zero volts?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: one-wheeled EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Hydrogen fuel - why in the rain??
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Lunch box lithium-ion EV batteries)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://newpaper.asia1.com.sg/top/story/0,4136,75756-1,00.html
Lithium-ion batteries powerful enough to power up a car?
SOON you may be able to have lithium-ion batteries that are
powerful enough to power up a car or even a building.
A Keio University research team has joined with major businesses
to develop large-capacity lithium-ion batteries suitable for mass
production, hoping to lower their prices to one-20th the current
levels.
The two-year project calls for a research budget of 500 million
yen ($7.7 million), to be covered by the companies, which include
KDDI Corp, Daiwa House Industry Co and Takenaka Corp.
The university and businesses will share any patents stemming
from the project.
The research team, part of the private university's Electric
Vehicle Laboratory (EVL), will set out to produce standardised
lithium-ion batteries with large capacities designed for use in
electric vehicles and buildings.
Most of the products currently on the market have capacities
applicable for use in smaller devices such as handphones and
personal computers.
The high cost of obtaining lithium-ion batteries led the EVL
researchers to initiate the project.
LUNCH-BOX SIZE BATTERY
Batteries used to run a single electric car, for example, cost
about 20 million yen, the sources said.
The project team comprised about a dozen researchers.
The researchers are considering plans to develop a battery about
the size of a lunchbox so that dozens or even hundreds of them
can be connected for specific needs.
The research will focus on ways to control the electricity
generated by each battery for the most efficient use, the sources
said.
Project leader Hiroichi Yoshida says the new battery will produce
major benefits.
'This is a technology that will promote the use of electric
vehicles, but that's not all,' said the professor at Keio's
Graduate School of Media and Governance.
'It also promotes, for example, efficient use of electricity from
wind power generators and surplus electricity at night, which in
turn will help stem global warming.' - NYT.
=====
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EVLN(All-electric vehicle provided by Southern California Edison)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/Stories/0%2C1413%2C206~22097~2486262%2C00.html
Article Published: Friday, October 22, 2004 - 9:39:15 PM PST
Hazardous waste roundup today
[...]
The Business Technology Center is at 2400 N. Lincoln Ave.
Rosemead chamber to open car show
ROSEMEAD -- Classic rides, antiques and hot rods will be on
display today at the Rosemead Chamber of Commerce car show at
Rosemead High School.
Cars will compete in four categories: best antique, classic,
foreign and domestic. The car show runs from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. at
the high school, 9063 E. Mission Drive.
The featured car of the show will be an all-electric vehicle
provided by Southern California Edison. New cars from New Century
Ford will be on display.
For more information call the Rosemead Chamber of Commerce at
(626) 288-0811.
[...]
Copyright � 2004 Pasadena Star News Los Angeles Newspaper Group
=====
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EVLN(Buckeye Bullet racer)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.newarkadvocate.com/news/stories/20041021/localnews/1454231.html
Local grad helps set land-speed record
Licking Valley alum works on OSU racer
By L.B. WHYDE Advocate Correspondent
Andrea Barger, left, a Licking Valley graduate, stands with Maria
Soliman and Kim Stevens next to the Buckeye Bullet racer. The
women worked on the car, which set a new land-speed record of 315
mph last week in Utah.
COLUMBUS -- A recent Licking Valley High School graduate was part
of the team of Ohio State University students who designed the
Buckeye Bullet, a car that shattered a national land-speed
record.
Andrea Barger, 20, a 2002 graduate of Licking Valley High School,
is a mechanical engineering student and one of 12 students
working on the Buckeye Bullet. The electric car set a new
national land speed record of 315 mph at Bonneville Salt Flats in
Utah.
"It was very exciting," Barger said. "It was kind of trying and
stressful at times, but it was exciting to see the car run so
well. You have to keep a level head though."
The streamlined vehicle is 31 feet long, two feet wide and stands
less than three feet tall. The 400-plus horsepower electric
traction motor is powered by more than 900 batteries.
"I helped build the car," Barger said. "We redesigned the front
portion of the chassis, the front suspension as well as the
steering. We made the parts and after every test took it apart
and put it back together."
Entirely designed, built and maintained by Ohio State students,
the Buckeye Bullet also holds the national speed record for
electric cars at 257 mph set last October at Bonneville. Last
week, they broke the existing international speed record of 245
mph when the vehicle posted an average speed of 272 mph. This was
Barger's second trip to the Bonneville Salt Flats. She went last
year when they set the first speed record. A large, dry lake,
Bonneville has a great expanse of flat surface, which is perfect
for record speeds.
"We're testing to see the ability of the battery power," Barger
said. "It's new technology, what we're working with."
The Buckeye Bullet's driver, Roger Schroer, said working with the
team was a wonderful experience.
"Being on a team like this, you learn a lot of teamwork," Barger
said. "I've learned about racing in general."
The name Buckeye Bullet came from the fact that a 30.06-caliber
bullet could not pierce the carbon fiber used as the outside. It
was important to find a material that could withstand speeds of
300 mph. The number on the side of the car, 3006, represents that
caliber of ammunition.
"I've never driven it," Barger said. "It's too risky to drive,
especially at that speed. But it would be cool to drive. I sat in
it a couple of times."
=====
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EVLN(GoinGreen's REVA GoinPlaces)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/newsarchiveitem.html?id=4078&pos=1
GoinGreen's GoinPlaces (21.10.2004)
London-based GoinGreen has been named T-Mobile Startups Business
of the Year.
GoinGreen is the company behind the G-Wiz electric car, which is
not only emission-free, but is said to be the cheapest car to run
at just around 1p a mile (equivalent to around 600 miles per
gallon!). It is also, is in the lowest insurance group, with no
road tax to pay. For Londoners there is the extra bonus of the
G-Wiz being exempt from the Congestion Charge and it can be
parked free in central London car parks, on meters and pay and
display bays.
Keith Johnston, managing director of GoinGreen said: " We knew
what we are doing has a very sound environmental and commercial
rationale however, we are completely surprised and absolutely
delighted to win the T-Mobile Startups Business of the Year. We
launched the G-Wiz in London a few months ago and have already
had very promising sales. Our aim is to roll out the G-Wiz to
other cities to establish a market for affordable green transport
across the UK.
The G-Wiz is currently available on promotion from just �5,899
and is sold via the GoinGreen website www.goingreen.co.uk
=====
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EVLN(EV Challenge)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.hendersondispatch.com/articles/2004/10/20/news/news05.txt
EV Challenge program detailed at N.C. State Fair
RALEIGH - The EV Challenge, the country's premier alternative
fuel education program, is again hosting its unique mobile
classroom and exhibiting a student-designed and converted
electric powered automobile at this year's N.C. State Fair now
through Sunday.
The only one of its kind in the nation, the mobile classroom is a
24-foot retrofitted vehicle transporter that features interactive
components, informational displays, videos, a solar powered model
car and a student-converted electric Triumph Spitfire. The
classroom is towed by a bi-fuel pickup truck designed to operate
on gasoline or compressed natural gas.
The EV Challenge is sponsored by the nonprofit Carolina Electric
Vehicle Coalition, Inc. (CEVC), based in Wake County. The CEVC's
mission is to provide quality educational programs related to
electric vehicle technology and its benefits.
Ralph Goodwin, CEVC executive director, said the mobile classroom
is an excellent way to get the organization's message about the
importance of clean-fuel technologies into the community - a
message that becomes more relevant each year.
"It was an important movement when we started the EV Challenge 10
years ago, and sky-rocketing gas prices and clean-air issues make
our initiatives even timelier now," he said.
The EV Challenge is unique among alternative fuel education
programs because its holistic approach and year-long
comprehensive curriculum span nearly all disciplines, including
math, science, auto mechanics, physics, engineering, electronics,
language arts and more.
The program has both high school and middle school components,
with curricula focusing on alternative fuels geared to each age
group. The highlight of the program is the design and
construction of a street-legal electric vehicle that high school
students enter into a national contest held annually in Wake
County during a two-day rally in April. Exact dates and location
are being finalized and will be announced soon. Middle school
students design and build model solar cars.
The program and competition include community service components,
public speaking and website design and culminate in a road rally
that measures student-converted vehicles on several components,
including efficiency, autocross and range events. All
participating schools this year will receive a miniature working
fuel cell, a new component of the program.
Nearly 4,000 students from four states (North Carolina, Virginia,
West Virginia and Florida) and 30 schools participated in the
program last year. Northern Vance High School in Henderson is a
perennial competitor and has won several awards from the program.
Schools are currently committing for the 2004-2005 school year.
The EV Challenge is supported by a diverse group of government,
industry and nonprofit partners. Among national accolades is
recognition as a recipient of the Environmental Protection Agency
Clean Air Excellence Award for Education and Outreach.
The EV Challenge is exhibiting on the south side of the
fairgrounds between the Jim Graham Building and Dorton Arena,
near gate No. 2. Students, teachers, volunteers and CEVC
officials are on hand to answer questions.
For further information, interested individuals may visit
www.evchallenge.org.
===
WARRENTON - Mary Somerville went out quietly Tuesday morning.
State hopes for fresh start in Warren
WARRENTON - After Mary Somerville was removed from the Warren
County Board of Elections, state elections Executive Director
Gary Bartlett expressed the hope that Warren will be able to
start a new, trouble-free page in the history of its often
turbulent elections office. Armed robbery: Band of Oz members
held up at local motel
Three gunmen robbed two traveling band members of their personal
belongings early Saturday in the parking lot of the Days Inn
motel on Ruin Creek Road. Granville United Way reaches 'Sweet
16'
OXFORD - The Granville County United Way kicked off its 16th year
with a breakfast Tuesday that featured introduction of a
"substitute" campaign chairman and recognition of two people who
have been active in the agency the full 16 years. EV Challenge
program detailed at N.C. State Fair
RALEIGH - The EV Challenge, the country's premier alternative
fuel education program, is again hosting its unique mobile
classroom and exhibiting a student-designed and converted
electric powered automobile at this year's N.C. State Fair now
through Sunday. Granville water issues remain muddy
=====
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EVLN(Hybrid 659cc Hijet Cargo micro-truck in summer 2005)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.auto-asia.com/viewcontent.asp?pk=9706 18/10/2004:
Daihatsu will release hybrid Hijet next summer
Daihatsu Motor has begun the development of a hybrid electric
vehicle based on its 659cc Hijet Cargo micro-truck and could
bring it to market as early as summer 2005.
Daihatsu has been monitoring the use of the new hybrid electric
vehicle in collaboration with government offices and several
companies since October 2002. Having collected a mass of
real-world data, it has developed a model tailored to the needs
of micro-CV users.
It says the focus in the months ahead will be on refining the
basic design and bringing down manufacturing costs.
Production is scheduled to begin this December at the automaker's
Nakatsu plant in Oita Prefecture.
=====
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EVLN(Tianjing Electric Vehicle Research Center in Shanghai)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=article&storyid=764
QingYuan QYEV-2 maneuvers on the track Shanghai are part of the
2004 Michelin Challenge Bibendum. Tianjing Electric Vehicle
Research Center equipped a pair of these vehicle with battery
electric drive. 46 of the vehicles in the competition that seeks
to promote both low emissions and high well-to-tire efficiency
were battery electric-powered, far out-numbering both hybrids and
fuel cell vehicles.
Oct 17, 2004 EVs Blossom in Shanghai By EV World
Michelin takes its Challenge Bibendum to Shanghai and discovers
EV programs in full blossom
Who said EVs have wilted and died?
That's certainly not the message being conveyed from the 2004
Michelin Challenge Bibendum held this week in Shanghai. Of the
more than 150 vehicles registered to participate in this year's
competition, 70 of them were electric-drive; and of these, the
vast majority (46) were battery electric-powered cars and
two-wheelers built in China.
According to an EV World source familiar with battery development
in China, only one manufacturer actually used lithium ion
batteries. All the other cars used either nickel, metal hydride
or advanced lead-acid. Regardless, the sheer number of battery
electric, hybrid-electric and fuel cell-electric cars in the
Bibendum this year clearly indicates that the technology is
starting to catch on, especially among Chinese car makers and
academic institutions.
Fielding electric-drive vehicles in Shanghai are the following
Chinese manufacturers: Chargeboard Electric Vehicles, DongFeng
Electric Vehicles, Xiangtan Electric Vehicle Co. Changsha Unite
Electromotion Technology, FAW, YongJiu, Thundersky, Shanghai
Electric Vehicle Development Center, Feici Green Energy Co. and
Shenli Technical Co.. Academic institutions also entering EVs
included South China University of Technology, Beijing Institute
of Technology, Wuhan University of Technology, Qingshan Energy
Research Institute, Tianjing Electrical Vehicle Research
Institute,Wanxiang Electrical Vehicle Research Center, Hunan
University, Tongji University, and Tsinghua University, the MIT
of China.
North American, Japanese and European electric-drive entrants
included Audi, Volkswagen, Peugeot, Ford, Toyota, Volvo, GM,
DaimlerChrysler, Hyundai, and Nisssan. Michelin, which founded
and sponsors the annual Challenge, entered its own EV's, built in
cooperation with Swiss-based PSI; the fuel-cell powered Hy-Light
and the hybrid-electric Concept. French fashion house Courrege,
which participated in the 2003 Bibendum in Sonoma, California
last year, joined the fun again, but this time with two vehicles,
both battery electric-powered. Finally, the Aurora Vehicle
Association traveled to China with its solar-powered car.
While most of electric vehicles in the Bidendum were of the
four-wheeled variety, Shanghai Electrical Vehicle Development
Center brought five of its electric scooters. And from what we
understand, this is only a fraction of the two-wheeled electric
vehicles currently in production or in development on the
mainland.
Michelin was kind enough to post photographs of some of the
battery electric cars in the Challenge on their web site. We
thought EV World readers would enjoy seeing them. All photographs
courtesy of Michelin.
Michelin/PSI Hy-Light QingYuan EV-1
Copyright 1998-2004, EVWorld.com, Inc. All rights reserved.
=====
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>> Curiousity leads me to wonder just what you have to do to a 12-volt PbA
>>battery so that its resting voltage is 0.
>
>Run it completely down and then:
>
>a) lay a short across the terminals and leave it there for a few days.
>b) drain out all the electrolyte.
>c) neutralize the electrolyte by adding soda or aqua ammonia.
I'm pretty sure I didn't do a), and I know I didn't do b) or c). Any
other ways to do it?
David Thompson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
we have daihatsu hijets in work running on lpg
i would love a hybrid one
P.S.don't buy one of the ones built in italy by piagio
as they fall apart within a year
regards
richard
--- bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVLN(Hybrid 659cc Hijet Cargo micro-truck in summer
> 2005)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public
> EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for
> reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> http://www.auto-asia.com/viewcontent.asp?pk=9706
> 18/10/2004:
> Daihatsu will release hybrid Hijet next summer
>
> Daihatsu Motor has begun the development of a hybrid
> electric
> vehicle based on its 659cc Hijet Cargo micro-truck
> and could
> bring it to market as early as summer 2005.
>
> Daihatsu has been monitoring the use of the new
> hybrid electric
> vehicle in collaboration with government offices and
> several
> companies since October 2002. Having collected a
> mass of
> real-world data, it has developed a model tailored
> to the needs
> of micro-CV users.
>
> It says the focus in the months ahead will be on
> refining the
> basic design and bringing down manufacturing costs.
>
> Production is scheduled to begin this December at
> the automaker's
> Nakatsu plant in Oita Prefecture.
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
>
> ' ____
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> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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> finish.
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>
=====
Regards
Richard
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Do you guys know of any new good books about EVs?
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--- Begin Message ---
Howdy folk's:
H2 Gen from electrolysis is 50% efficient, not 85%, see the U of Wash study,
Bill Dube's previous post or the MotorTrend issue on hydrogen production.
(Plus major losses in compression to 10,000psi and fuel cell losses = about
20% well to wheel efficiency). Only 9% is lost in power transmission, so a
battery electric comes out being far more efficient from
generator/solar/wind/etc to EV.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 12:13 PM
Subject: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
> BOT = "Back On Topic"
>
> My only environmental angst about an EV is the batteries. It seems
> I'll either need to replace them every couple years, or go with a
> toxic chemistry like NiCads. Don't get me wrong, I think lead-acids
> and Nicads are an acceptable risk, but the purist in me wishes there
> was a non-toxic chemistry that outlasted the car.
>
> Now flip this to hydrogen. Suppose I use solar panels and
> electrolysis to make H2, and just burn it directly in an ICE motor.
> Even though electrolysis is 85% efficient, and the ICE is only 20%
> efficient at best, at least I can run 20 or more years on this setup.
> If a fuel cell lasts 20 years or more, my efficiency is much better
> than 20% for the car, so I'd need maybe 1/2 as many solar cells.
>
> A side note, I don't think the issue is making hydrogen production
> more efficient. I think it is hydrogen storage. Pressurized H2 tanks
> don't hold much energy, so you'll need some kind of very efficient
> chemical or hydride storage.
>
> Contrast this to using Orbitals that I would need to replace every 2
> years. Even if it took 1/4 the solar panels to keep the batteries
> charged, when the energy it takes to manufacture and dispose of the
> batteries is taken into account, am I really ahead of the H2 case?
> Remember, the basic difference is 4 times as many solar panels for H2
> vs. making and disposing of five tons of batteries.
>
> So don't get me wrong, I'm building a battery-electric now, and
> believe that is clearly superior to fossil fuel. What's not as clear
> to me (and I'd welcome any studies that show yay or nay) is if
> hydrogen is ultimately cleaner or not.
>
> --- quoted anonymously ---:
> > At 08:42 PM 10/25/2004, you wrote:
> >
> > >I have an (automotive) colleague that sees pure electric as bunkum
> > and
> > >hydrogen (hybrids) as the only answer.
> > >
> > >I lack the experience to debunk it? Anyone care to share a link?
> >
> > Hydrogen is an extremely clever scam. When you step back
> > and ask,
> > "Where will the hydrogen come from?" the house of cards falls
> > apart.
> >
> > You will get hydrogen from fossil fuels. The most economic
> > way to
> > get hydrogen is to catalyze natural gas. When you do this, you
> > throw away
> > 50% of the fuel value. If you were to put that hydrogen into a
> > fuel-cell
> > car, it would only go 50% the distance (at best) that a hybrid car
> > would,
> > if fueled from the natural gas directly. The oil company loves it.
> > They get
> > to sell twice as much per mile driven. It is also twice as much CO2
> > per
> > mile driven. (G.W. = Global Warming)
> >
> > If you choose to make hydrogen for your fuel cell car from
> >
> > electricity, an EV using that electricity directly will go at least
> > twice
> > as far.
> >
> > Many of the foaming advocates of hydrogen say, "But we can
> > figure
> > out a way to make hydrogen more efficiently if we hurl big research
> > dollars
> > at the problem." Unfortunately, there are only so many hydrogen
> > atoms in
> > each methane molecule. Also, until we unlock the secret of
> > photosynthesis,
> > there will be no efficient way to make hydrogen. Batteries will
> > always be
> > more efficient at storing electricity than hydrogen gas.
> >
> > Think of all the money we have spent on fusion power and
> > it will
> > give you just a peek of how much we would have to spend on
> > electrolysis to
> > make it more efficient. There are many many other areas in
> > alternative
> > fuels that will reap greater rewards on a faster timetable for far
> > less
> > money. (Like biodiesel) Of course, the oil companies really
> > wouldn't like
> > that, would they.
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
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Is the 4th & San Fernando Garage free if EV? Lawrence Rhodes...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Geller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: Charging in San Jose downtown
• 4th and San Fernando Garage
SP AV OC
S 4th St. and E San Fernando St.
95112_2
• Costco San Jose
SP
2201 Senter Rd.
95112_1
854-G3
• Costco San Jose Almaden
PROBLEM
SP
5301 Almaden Expressway
95118_1
874-C4
• Honda of Stevens Creek
AV R
4590 Stevens Creek Blvd.
95129_1
853-A1
• Propel
SP
1010 Rincon Circle
95131_1
• Reid-Hillview Airport
NEW LOC
AV OC
2500 Cunningham Ave
95148_1
• San Jose Convention Ctr
SP AV OC R
410 S. Almaden Blvd.
95110_1
834-B7
On Oct 26, 2004, at 7:06 PM, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I can't seem to find the info on the charging station in downtown San
Jose. Can anyone help with an address. Thanks Lawrence
Rhodes.............
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At 06:19 PM 10/26/2004, Roger Stockton wrote:
The time to safely connect/disconnect for a 36kW drink is probably going
to be similar to that required for an H2 hose, and the time required to
pay for said fill-up is going to be similar, so if it takes 10min to
fill the tank on a FCEV vs 1min to fill your YTs, the FCEV still comes
out *way* ahead in refueling time since the single fillup allows it to
Ahh, but you are comparing Apples and Pomegranates.
H2 car - you drive to a station, stand in the rain, and wait while it's
filled. Walk through the rain to pay.
EV car - you go home, plug in, and go eat dinner. Ignore until morning.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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Zinc air has double the energy density of Lithium Ion or 8 times the density
of lead acid. Lawrence Rhodes......
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On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:15:24 -0400, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ah, the power of vaporware. A proven formula:
>
> Make up a catchy name for the latest flavor of Improbable Technology.
> Find some college prof to prostitute his name to your venture.
> Put up a flashy web site making all sorts of forward-looking statements
> Soak the investors
> Repeat as often as necessary to make a career.
Well, we've had more than our share of those in the battery realm.
What do you make of this, by the way? :
http://www.europositron.com/en/partanen.html
My favorite bit:
"We believe that in the next few years, Aluminium will establish
itself as the technology of choice for EV'S. It is anticipated that it
will be possible to store 50 kW-Hr in 150Kgs at a material cost of USD
300."
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The Little Car that Could,
by Shnayerson.
about the EV1.
On Oct 27, 2004, at 5:35 AM, Simon Sandvik wrote:
Do you guys know of any new good books about EVs?
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Hi all,
I have heard some where that certian controllers with re-gen can be set up for
variable re-gen. how is this done?
my best guess is that a second pot box is attached to the brake. when the brake is
depressed the brake signal is sent to the controller as it is for normal re-gen
operation but with variable re-gen the throttle input is switched to the brake pot box
when this occurs?? so the throttle input would be controlling the braking....would get
the same effect as if you pressed the brake and throttle at the same time. but that is
only a guess... I have a Zapi H2B. has anyone have previous experience with this?
Thanks
Brian B.
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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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I could envision that mechanical stress on the interconnects
(maybe age related) disconnected the cells from eachother, thus
no closed circuit can be formed anymore.
If this would be the case then the battery could also not be
charged anymore.
Just my 2 cents
M
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James D Thompson
> Sent: Mittwoch, 27. Oktober 2004 07:38
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Battery at Zero volts?
>
>
> >> Curiousity leads me to wonder just what you have to do to
> a 12-volt PbA
> >>battery so that its resting voltage is 0.
> >
> >Run it completely down and then:
> >
> >a) lay a short across the terminals and leave it there for a
> few days.
> >b) drain out all the electrolyte.
> >c) neutralize the electrolyte by adding soda or aqua ammonia.
>
> I'm pretty sure I didn't do a), and I know I didn't do b) or c). Any
> other ways to do it?
>
> David Thompson
>
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Now if only Amtrak and Metrolink would consider the "Green Goat"
for their operations. It seems a perfect replacement for locos in
Metrolink trains and Amtrak Pacific Surfliners: trains no longer than
six rather lightweight passenger cars, which stop every three to
10 miles.
Tim
------
> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 04:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: EVLN(Union Pacific Low-Emission Green Goat Locomotives)
> To: evlist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> EVLN(Union Pacific Low-Emission Green Goat Locomotives)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> OMAHA, Neb., Sept. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- Union Pacific Railroad has
> expanded its extensive air emission reduction program by
> acquiring two types of new high-tech locomotives for switching in
> rail yards.
>
> Union Pacific has ordered a prototype diesel "truck-engine"
> switch (TES) locomotive and has leased a newer version of a
> hybrid electric locomotive known as the "Green Goat." The
> railroad was the first to test the original Green Goat hybrid in
> Roseville, Calif., two years ago.
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On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 09:43, brian baumel wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have heard some where that certian controllers with re-gen can be set up for
> variable re-gen. how is this done?
> my best guess is that a second pot box is attached to the brake. when the brake is
> depressed the brake signal is sent to the controller as it is for normal re-gen
> operation but with variable re-gen the throttle input is switched to the brake pot
> box when this occurs?? so the throttle input would be controlling the
> braking....would get the same effect as if you pressed the brake and throttle at the
> same time. but that is only a guess... I have a Zapi H2B. has anyone have previous
> experience with this?
The Metricmind AC systems offer variable regen. The controller has a
second input for a brake potbox. Trying to make the throttle potbox
input do double duty would be difficult... easier to just add another
input.
Mark
> Thanks
> Brian B.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:38:27 -0400, James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>>> Curiousity leads me to wonder just what you have to do to a 12-volt PbA
>>>battery so that its resting voltage is 0.
>>
>>Run it completely down and then:
>>
>>a) lay a short across the terminals and leave it there for a few days.
>>b) drain out all the electrolyte.
>>c) neutralize the electrolyte by adding soda or aqua ammonia.
>
> I'm pretty sure I didn't do a), and I know I didn't do b) or c). Any
>other ways to do it?
Oh, I thought this was a tongue-in-cheek question.
The most usual cause of a battery suddenly going to zero volts is an
internal inter-cell connector opened. These connectors are made of lead,
subject to the same corrosion as the rest of the battery, and tend to be
quite small in consumer-grade batteries such as our old favorite, the golf
cart battery.
An open cell connector will obviously prevent the battery from accepting
any charge so zero current with the charger connected is the confirmatory
diagnostic.
Another possible cause of zero volts is all the cells being shorted. I
can't say that I've ever seen this but it's certainly possible if the
battery is grossly abused such as gross and prolonged overcharging. In my
high school days I once piped all the vents of an old battery together and
then grossly overcharged it to produce H2/O2 to make exploding balloons
and the like. The plates warped fairly rapidly, shorting several cells
which prompted me to look elsewhere for my gas. I suppose that if I'd
continued to abuse the thing all the cells would have shorted.
Leaving a battery long term in a discharged state can eventually result in
near zero volts. Even after years of sitting, however, the battery will
accept a bit of current, maybe no more than a few ma, even if it won't
take a charge. That a little current will flow distinguishes this failure
mode from an open cell connector.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It's called NiMH. Southern California Edison has
> several vehicles with well over 100,000 miles, all
> with over 80% of pack capacity left...
> Li-ion pack will also likely outlast your car as
> long as unknown calender life issues don't interfere.
> Li-ion is not as non-toxic (or "almost edible") as
> NiMH but in relative terms to a PEM, they are
> non-toxic.
Ah, but these are generalities that are largely unproven. For every
battery technology, there are *huge* differences between the best and
the worst -- much larger than the average difference between
technologies.
It's like saying, "Men are taller than women". That's true, on the
average. But the difference in average height is so small as to be
unimportant, and it is easy to find women far taller than men.
You can find examples of *every* battery technology that can last
100,000 miles -- lead-acid, nickel-iron, nicad, nimh, lithium... The
trouble is, they are all special versions, optimized for life. The
optimizations make them too expensive to be practical, so they are only
used for "cost is no object" demos -- not in the marketplace.
In the real world, buyers care more about cost per mile. ICE cars
*could* have a $1000 battery that would last for the life of the car --
but we don't. Customers would rather pay only $50 per battery and
replace it every 30,000 miles or so. That is far cheaper over the life
of the car.
I think that demanding 100,000 mile batteries is a red herring. It just
provides additional excuses not to proceed with EVs, for no real
benefit. Battery technology keeps improving; who would want to be stuck
with the same old battery for 20 years?
Nimh cells are "relatively" non-toxic, but you'd still die if you ate
even a small one. The electrolyte is potassium hydroxide, and the
metal-hydride electrolyte is a witches brew of exotic metals.
There is a perverse danger to a "non-toxic" battery. Given human nature,
people will just throw them in the trash rather than recycling. So, they
may *contribute* to pollution problems rather than solving them. At
least with lead-acid and nicads, we *know* they are toxic, and so have
laws against dumping them. As a result, large lead-acids and nicads are
widely recycled. The best possible use for lead, nickel, cadmium, etc.
from batteries is to use it to make new batteries.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Evan Tuer wrote:
> I don't think the gyroscope provides "staying upright" force, it is
> just used by the computer to work out how to keep the wheel under you
> - a bit like the segway..
>
> Still though, it looks a bit scary!
So does a bicycle -- yet it works!
There is actually a long history of one-wheeled (monocycle) vehicles.
Some, like this one, have a small gyroscope and a complex auto-balancing
system.
Others just have a huge gyroscope that holds it upright by brute force.
I've seen pictures of one using this method being ridden across a river
on a log!
Others are basically a giant ball, with the driver inside. A ball can't
fall over, so it is unconditionally stable. The ball is either clear, or
has holes or windows so the driver can see.
Others are a big wheel, with the driver riding inside it, so low that
the center of gravity is below the axle. These are unconditionally
stable fore-aft, though too much torque can make them "gerbil" (wheel
sits still and driver spins around inside it :-)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Ahh, but you are comparing Apples and Pomegranates.
H2 car - you drive to a station, stand in the rain, and wait while it's
filled. Walk through the rain to pay.
EV car - you go home, plug in, and go eat dinner. Ignore until morning.
--
I am, by no means, a fan of hydrogen. But let's be fair about this. I
haven't stood in the rain to buy gasoline for years. All of the stations
I've used (or have even seen) have had more than adequate canopies over the
pumps for shelter from the rain.
Neither have I had to walk anywhere to pay for the fuel in recent years-
I've always paid at the pump with a credit card ( under the same shelter) .
I see no reason to think that hydrogen re-fueling stations ( if they ever
exist) would have un-sheltered pumps and require walking somewhere to pay.
Phil Marino
Rochester, NY
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