EV Digest 3884
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Running clutchless?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Long, Data, Data)
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Dump Charging...- for PbA only.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Running clutchless?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Dump Charging... Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Dump Charging...- for PbA only.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Big trucks
by "Simon Sandvik" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Gel Cel Etiquette
by michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) ETEK Motor Info
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Battery Box Gauge
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) 200sx preliminary design review
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Solectra Question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Dump Charging...- for PbA only.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Long, Data, Data)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Running clutchless?
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
richard ball [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> does an one here use a torque converter and auto box?
> does this set up work any better than gear
> transmission?
Randy at Canadian Electric Vehicles has done a number of conversions
with automatic transmissions.
I recently had the opportunity to drive one of his latest, a newer model
Toyota Echo (unfortunately not the hatchback that looks like it should
be electric ;^), which uses both a torque converter and auto box. It
works great!
Efficiency is probably a bit lower than a manual version would be, so if
range is critical this may not be that way to go, however, it does make
for a very user friendly conversion.
I've driven two other local EVs that retained automatic trannies.
One was a Ford Fiesta, and the auto tranny and torque convertor were
specifically retained to make this conversion 'joe sixpack proof'. The
car's owner wanted to be able to toss the keys to any bystander and have
them be able to take the car for a drive without any special
instruction, and without any worry that the uninitiated would fry the DC
motor's commutator holding the car on a hill by applying a bit of
throttle.
The other was an '80's Omni that retained the auto tranny, but not the
torque convertor (as I recall). Due to the slight delay required for
the tranny's oil pump to build pressure to engage the clutches after the
motor started spinning, this car typically launched with a bit of a
jerk.
The Echo that CEV converted idles the traction motor so that oil
pressure is maintained and provides a very smooth operation. My only
complaint with this setup is that it used a Curtis 'C' model controller,
and so 'whines' while sitting still with the key on (since very low duty
cycle is required to idle the motor)! It goes silent as soon as you
apply more throttle and begin moving, but I'd suggest avoiding the 'C'
model Curtis controllers if you go this route.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Most consumer-grade chargers provide essentially worthless indicators of
> the battery's actual state of charge.
ok, I keep hearing this, but I'm stuck with the 3amp charger that came with my
HCF 707, for the time being (sure, I'd love to have one of Rudman's chargers -
who wouldn't?)
this charger simply goes from an orange LED to green LED when its "finished"
charging... I often let it sit for about an hour after its switched to green, but
should I be letting it go for a while longer on a more regular basis?
will I get SOME semblance of balancing and realistic finishing charge this way,
or am I likely to boil my batts if I'm not careful?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
Bull Victor...
You are as polite as always...
The charger will be universal, the software will be tailored to the User
and or customer.
Just get the point Rich: of course you can have a profile for my pack stored
in the software and I'd happily charge then. But the charger doesn't
have to be
a dump charger ot 36kW charger - any (ANY, not just me) user with
non-lead acid battery will NOT be able to take advantage of dump
charging which was the only my point in a first place. I won't let you
go get
close to ACRX with your 175A Anderson, as I ded it with 8A very happily
now :-)
So if you can do 8A with your monster charger, I can too with my
little one at home. So, your service is pointless to me, and again,
perhaps to ALL people using non-lead acid batterues who doesn't
want/need power your chargers are capable of.
Yes, 95% use them, and will take advantage of it just bekause they
have to since their packs are doof for 30-40 real mikes a day.
No argument there, so you'll have your market for some time.
That is until LiIons are cheaper than lead, then people won't be able to
take
advantage of your chargers and you will have to re-think your
"the more amps - the better" strategy.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
It's my understanding that any chemestry can be charged
as quickly as it can be charged (obviousely), though they
are rarely charged that fast because the grid pipe is
generally to small, and few people have dump packs.
You meand as fast as discharged? No, this is not the case.
Try to charge SAFT NiCDs with 150A they allow for discharges.
Other than immediate void the warranty, they will survive,
perhaps, 20 cycles.
I have some Li-ions in a 24v scooter, I can discharge
a single cell at 2Amps in about 20 minutes, and they
recharge as quickly as they can in about 120 minutes.
While charging it peaks at about 0.7A, from 0% to 50%
charge takes about 45 minutes.
No matter how large you scale up my Li-ion pack it can
still be fully charged in 120 minutes, 50% charged in
45 minutes, and 25% charged in about 20 minutes.
Depending on how large it is a 25% charge might be
75 miles worth of a 50kWh 300 mile battery pack.
Let's say that 50kWh pack is made up of 6800 cells,
each capable of charging at [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 2.8 Watts
which comes out to 19kW, at 120v That needs 160Amps.
So, Dump Charging would be usefull for even these
exotic and unusuail types of batteries...
I don't see any reason that a PFC couldn't be used
by anyone at a Fast Charge Station regardless of chemistry.
It is not PFC or non-PFC issue. Read the specs what
the battery requires and you will find out that dump
charging capability is way overkill for any battery other
than lead acid.
PbA is the Simplest, Choose the number of batteries or
autodetect the length of the string and charge!
PbA is the ONLY chemistry tolerating well charging as fast
as discharging. Simple as that.
Other chemistries CAN be charged with different degree of
success wit hthe currents equal to that of discharging them,
but at the expense od life time or BMS complexity.
Assume LiIons CAN be charged with 175A current.
WHen first cell reach full, the charger throttles back
to, say, 70A. CAn you imagine a shunt reg bypassing 70A?
Like 100 of them?
And if you throttle back to manageable 5A, why have
monster charger at all?
Yes, I know, Rich will scream I'm not his application,
but it has nothing to do with me, it is just a property of
other chemistries. And if this thinkers his ribs,
well, be it.
Anyone could say what I said, I just happen to know
by now more about LiIons charging than Rich.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
I am camled down...
What I ment was that we could use a combination of Dump pack, and the
grid as a supply to feed a PFC???
The PFC??? would be what is programmed to feed the target pack.. of Say...
Lions... You can't dump them just stuff 3C into them...
That at 400 volts is more than the dump pack can push.....
With a Back up pack, and Grid.. I can feed them at thier limit. That all my
client wants to do, Feed his Stuff at it's limit.
OK, all clear. I have no idea what your clients require for themselves,
so cannot comment.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I drive "clitchless" and am happy. I do have the clutch but it doesn't
disengage
completely and I have no need to fix it since cannot really take advantage
of fully functional clutch. When I need to switch gears, it is doable
without
clutch, although takes longer and requires some practice.
Victor
Mark Fowler wrote:
Clutchless works for me.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Natoli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 28 October 2004 6:30 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Running clutchless?
Hello all,
this lurker is about to start on his first conversion (small car), and,
following on from the recent (and very helpful!) discussion over
flywheel
machining, I had the following question:
Is there any reason to keep the clutch/flywheel assembly?
My conversion is going to be a commuter, so quick changes down the drag
strip aren't a must. Judging by my calcs, I figure I'll have the odd
change
from 2nd to 3rd gear in the zippier parts of my commute... and I'm just
working on the assumption that changing gears without a clutch will be
pretty straightforward with an EV (ie. come off "gas", drop in neutral,
push
toward desired gear and let the synchro do its thing... which I'm
guessing
should be pretty easy without the inertia load of the ICE and
paraphernalia). Is this correct?.
If I can, I wouldn't mind losing the entire weight of that assembly, and
losing the inertial mass of the flywheel (not to mention fewer moving
parts). Is there anything obvious I've forgotten? Any reason why I
really
ought to keep the clutch/flywheel in this situation? On the other hand,
are
there any EV-ers here who've happily done away with the clutch?
Cheers,
Claudio
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
I think Victor was making the point that it's hard enough to
standardise on an AC feed connector, let alone a wide-range, safe,
high current DC connector AND a standard "dump charge protocol" to
interface with everyone's different battery management solutions.
However, as a community, we should manage to make a better job of it
than the big automakers did with their deliberately diverse charger
options.
No, actually AC feed connector is easiest part of the task, and not even
as much engineering task (suitable ones do exist), but regulations and
NEC interference issue.
If future battery will be specifically made to be capable of accepting
high rate charge, people will use it.
My point was, provided it is exist already and installed on every gas
station today, I'll still come home and plug in at home overnight.
I don't NEED to plug in somewhere to get 80% full in 20 min if
I have more than enoug juice to not requiring this. So these
stations will be really useless to me unless I take EV away from home.
Then, yes, I'd take advantage of them, but as often as I do far away,
I could take gas car too.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rev. Gadget has a nice K series BMW conversion. Those are cheap used. The
tranny is seperate. Very smooth & quiet. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:16 AM
Subject: Motorcycle transmissions
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV motorcycle,
and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with shared
engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this isn't
really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from the
motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably <
18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900 -
$3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/ considerably
less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at the Metro
transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and modifying would be
necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other small-ish car transmissions.
I've even looked at the overdrive units found on (I think) Volvos; they're
2-speed, but the ration difference is really small. Also, the 2-speed
"transfer case" from a 4wd might be an option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though cost
and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's a
small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the frame),
I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow damon. I have a Lectra with a 12 to 54 gearing. I also have an A89. I
keep up with traffic but can't go past 40 at all. I have a 400 amp Curtis
48v. I think however Rev. Gadgets bike also uses a 6.7 but is at 72v. He
says he keeps it in 2nd all the time. It has a 250 pound pack. I'm
switching to an etek and gearing it 16 to 54. It should do 45 and still
climb hills. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: Motorcycle transmissions
Are you sure you want a transmission. I am running a 48V 400 amp Alltrax
controller, an ADC 6.7 inch motor and a single 14 to 41 gear ratio. It's
not quick for a motorcycle, but easily keeps up with cars. I top out at
just over 60mph, but could change that if I went to a 72V controller.
Unless you need drag racing type accelaration and a very high top end I
wouldn't bother with a transmission. Just pick an appropriate
motor/controller combo and select a decent gear ratio and you'll be fine.
You will already have a hard time finding space for enough batteries to
get decent range.
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Motorcycle transmissions
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:16:39 -0700
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV motorcycle,
and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with shared
engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this isn't
really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from the
motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably <
18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900 -
$3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/ considerably
less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at the Metro
transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and modifying would be
necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other small-ish car transmissions.
I've even looked at the overdrive units found on (I think) Volvos; they're
2-speed, but the ration difference is really small. Also, the 2-speed
"transfer case" from a 4wd might be an option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though cost
and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's a
small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the frame),
I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.reverendgadget.com/subpage1.html here is the direct url.
Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Weisenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
This guy used a BMW- see Website: www.reverendgadget.com
Looked pretty straight forward.
With a Harley Pulley do you really need a clutch? Maybe a Honda CVT would
do? Such as the Silverwing uses. There is also the Ridley CVT for Harley's
as well.
Those are the methods I am exploring when I build my Trimagnum EV.
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with
shared engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor
this isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission
from the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably
< 18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900
- $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's
a small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"a dump charger ot 36kW charger - any (ANY, not just me) user with
non-lead acid battery will NOT be able to take advantage of dump
charging which was the only my point in a first place. I won't let you "
Victor, making such absolute statements like this will come back and bite
you. There are always exceptions.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another thought to consider is if you keep the voltage up you don't need a
trannsmission if you gear it right. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "spidercats" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with shared
engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this
isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from
the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably <
18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900 -
$3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's a
small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
I have been thinking along the lines of a scooter EV. Like you I thought
of transmission but my sloution is going thru the CV system attached to
the rear wheel blocks of most scooters. Otherwise Enfield India do split
motor / transmission units which are good for 60 - 80 mph depending on the
sprocket match up.
Sniper8052
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ive given up on the transmission idea and just conected my etek to the rear wheel by a
bit of chain
so far so good
reb
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Another thought to consider is if you keep the voltage up you don't need a
trannsmission if you gear it right. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "spidercats"
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
> Eric Poulsen wrote:
>
>> Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
>> motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
>>
>> Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with shared
>> engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this
>> isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from
>> the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
>>
>> Factors:
>>
>> 1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
>> 2) Price
>> 3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably <
>> 18")
>> 4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
>> 5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
>> enough
>>
>> Options:
>>
>> Harley transmission
>> BSA / Triumph transmission
>> Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
>> Custom
>> Something else
>>
>>
>> A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
>> the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900 -
>> $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
>> cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
>> considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
>> the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
>> modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
>> small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
>> found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
>> really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
>> option.
>>
>> I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
>> cost and availability is a concern.
>>
>> I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's a
>> small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
>> frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
>>
>> Anyone out there have any suggestions?
>
>
> I have been thinking along the lines of a scooter EV. Like you I thought
> of transmission but my sloution is going thru the CV system attached to
> the rear wheel blocks of most scooters. Otherwise Enfield India do split
> motor / transmission units which are good for 60 - 80 mph depending on the
> sprocket match up.
> Sniper8052
>
>>
>>
>>
>
Regards
Richard
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andre Blanchard wrote:
"a dump charger ot 36kW charger - any (ANY, not just me) user with
non-lead acid battery will NOT be able to take advantage of dump
charging which was the only my point in a first place. I won't let you "
Victor, making such absolute statements like this will come back and bite
you. There are always exceptions.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
Please, don't take it literally. ANYTHING stated on this
list in particular or in life in general will have
an exeptions, and this is expected and understood
without reminding. If one-two (or one- two hundred)
guys will risk to dump charge their LiIon packs
*as we know them today*, my statement in general
is still valid - it is not recommended and acceptable
practice as far as general public we're discussing is
concerned.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Low resistance Nicads, like the RC modelers like to use, can be
charged fast. http://www.powerstream.com has a Nicad they claim can
be charged at a 4C rate with little temperature rise.
It would take ~3000 to 6000 little Nicads like this to do an EV
(which White Lightning, the salt flats racer, did).
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> It is not PFC or non-PFC issue. Read the specs what
> the battery requires and you will find out that dump
> charging capability is way overkill for any battery other
> than lead acid.
> ...
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Part of the difference is the NiCads I use. With Lead Acid my top speed
drops a bit as they tend to sag more. I'm not sure if we have the exact
same motor either. Mine is one of the surpluss Tropica motors. It has a
nameplate rating of 72 volts. I do fine up hills, but judging from your
lower top end, I'll bet yours climbs stronger then mine.
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:05:16 -0700
Wow damon. I have a Lectra with a 12 to 54 gearing. I also have an A89.
I keep up with traffic but can't go past 40 at all. I have a 400 amp
Curtis 48v. I think however Rev. Gadgets bike also uses a 6.7 but is at
72v. He says he keeps it in 2nd all the time. It has a 250 pound pack.
I'm switching to an etek and gearing it 16 to 54. It should do 45 and
still climb hills. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message ----- From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: Motorcycle transmissions
Are you sure you want a transmission. I am running a 48V 400 amp Alltrax
controller, an ADC 6.7 inch motor and a single 14 to 41 gear ratio. It's
not quick for a motorcycle, but easily keeps up with cars. I top out at
just over 60mph, but could change that if I went to a 72V controller.
Unless you need drag racing type accelaration and a very high top end I
wouldn't bother with a transmission. Just pick an appropriate
motor/controller combo and select a decent gear ratio and you'll be fine.
You will already have a hard time finding space for enough batteries to
get decent range.
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Motorcycle transmissions
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:16:39 -0700
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with shared
engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this
isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from
the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably <
18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900 -
$3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's a
small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
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How much electric horsepower would you need when driving a big truck @ 50 mph with a
60.000 kg total weight?
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I am very nearly ready to return the Gogomobil to service as my
cross-town commute-mobile (and laugh-getter). I am using 4 Optima
buddy-pairs to power it, and I have 2 electric wheelchair/scooter gel
cells that I want to use for the 12v power. As I have no real experience
with gel cells, I have questions (and the EVDL ALWAYS has answers!)
I am planning on using a 12v charger to begin with ('til I find a
suitable 48v DC/DC) and a Rudman reg on each battery. They will also be
run as a buddy-pair as they fit so nicely in the remaining space in the
rear battery compartment..
What do I need to do differently in their care and charging from the
Optimas?
Thank you-
Michael B.
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--- Begin Message ---
I just stumbled accross this link... a more modern version of what
actually happened. (Good thing Bill doesn't have access to supercaps!)
<http://www.pcweenies.org/toon_archive.php?toon=609>
> The guys in the lab coats sure didn't appreciate you sneaking up and
> popping a paper bag behind them :-)
>
> Really? What a joker. "Wisenheimer" so it's deserved. Lawrence
> Rhodes...
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Does anyone on this list have experience and/or data on the Etek Motor
at 72VDC? Are they still in production? I have seen references on a few
sites about not being in production. If these aren't commonly available
anymore, what would be a good comparable motor other than the PERM motor
that was discussed a few days back?
I would like to use the Etek in an EM application, but was concerned
about running it at 72VDC and the availability.
Thanks!
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
www.floridaeaa.org
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Victor..
My high amp customer... Is NOT lead Acid.
He wants more that I can bring him.
He is NOT you. Or most of my other customers.
The charger WILL be flexable... I could charge your Ev at 8 amps...
The charger will need no further hardware efforts to cover just about any
voltage and charge curves.
That's what I Promised my Client...
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For those who have built sheet metal or aluminum battery boxes, what gauge
metal did you use? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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Hi Everyone,
As some of you might know, I'm using the 200sx conversion for my senior
computer engineering design project at Utah State University. I'm doing
it solo, and it has been more work than the average joe puts in on a
project. But I'm so glad I'm doing it.
The biggest part of the senior design is getting a feel for how projects
are done in industry. I'm presenting a preliminary design review to my
professor next Monday (gee, a little late in the game for a
*preliminary* design review, isn't it? :)). If anyone wants to take a
look at what I'm presenting, I'd appreciate any feedback. It still has
to go to my editor, so there will be some changes. But I could have
technical mistakes in it - I haven't been recovering very well from the
time zone change after my 2 week stay in Russia.
Here's the links. I don't have them posted on the EV Source website
anywhere yet. Anyone who has visited the site in the last 4 months
knows it needs some updating:
http://www.evsource.com/conversion/BPEVC_PDR.swf (flash version)
http://www.evsource.com/conversion/BPEVC_PDR.pdf (PDF version)
You can send any comments/corrections directly to me off-list
([EMAIL PROTECTED]). Oh, and if you recognize any of the pictures as
being hijacked from your website - sorry. I guess consider this as
asking permission :)
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
5% off all items in our Top-Line Shop from November to Christmas!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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I caught the comment about the solectra ac being a deal, and the motor
is! what I couldn't find was how much does the controller cost? anyone?
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David Dymaxion wrote:
Low resistance Nicads, like the RC modelers like to use, can be
charged fast. http://www.powerstream.com has a Nicad they claim can
be charged at a 4C rate with little temperature rise.
It would take ~3000 to 6000 little Nicads like this to do an EV
(which White Lightning, the salt flats racer, did).
That is RC model battery. IT does not requires a BMS which should handle
4C current too - you're forgetting that. A collection of enough loose
batteries
capable of handling 4C charge each, is not a ready to use traction pack.
Have you seen non-flooded NiCD EV size battery? Forget toy RC battery
if you're serious and want 5-7 years of the pack life, about the same as
the car
itself. I'd like to learn if it exists. The only one intended for the
job (SAFT)
I know. Ask them if they will keep your warranty after 4C charging.
Doing thoudands of D cells just because nothing else is available
is just as impractical and hobby-like s doing thousands of 18650 cells
ACP did for show where the cost was not a priority but PR and being
first were.
An individual or a single company doing weird things is not an indication
that it is acceptable by masses solution.
And how long an RC model battery last? Let's rephrase it - how much does
the owner care if replacement is so cheap - few dollars? Convenience of
15 min recharge between flights worth throwing it away after 50-100 cycles.
I'm sure every moderer carries on the field one -two spare batts just in
case.
Can you aford couple of EV traction packs laying around just in case?
Now, I'm not saying that it is impossible to make fast recharging
non-lead acid
battery. But I don't see why would anyone seriously bother if relatively
slow one
already fits normal human driving abilities - 5-6 hrs of driving time a
day easy.
8 hrs doable. More than 8 hrs are so rare cases (compare to average), that
no one will develop special batteries just for those people. Take a hybrid
instead if you do 400 miles a day every day.
I'm loosing interest to argue - future will show where we're going. It
is all
speculation at this point anyway.
Victor
Victor
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Sam Uzi wrote:
> I'm stuck with the 3amp charger that came with my HCF 707...
> this charger simply goes from an orange LED to green LED when
> its "finished" charging... will I get SOME semblance of balancing
> and realistic finishing charge this way, or am I likely to boil
> my batts if I'm not careful?
There is no way to know what these lights mean. You'll have to put a
voltmeter and ammeter on it to find out.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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EVAmeria makes adapters for clutchless operation. Here's a web page of
someone who uses one:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4429/cl3.htm
Bill Dennis
I had my own shaft adapter made and its much smaller and lighter than
the EVAmerica unit. The secret, that I learned from Scott Hull, is to
buy a Ruland shaft coupler. The O.D. of the adapter is the O.D of the
coupler, about 2 inches. The catch is you need something with the
tranny input splines on it that is large enuf to machine down to the
motor shaft diameter (generally 1 1/8") and cut a key way into. For
the aircooled VW transaxles you can use the reverse gear from a later
VW Bus (you can almost use the reverse gear of a Bug, but be careful
as the OD is not true to the splines inside.)
The VW Beetle transaxle can have the pilot shaft removed as the input
shaft is not supported by any bearing except it. I've been running
the EV Buggy that way for almost 5 years now without trouble. Many
(most?) FWD transaxles don't require an input shaft bearing either.
Most RWD transmissions require that the input bearing be supported.
The Ruland coupler insert for the transmission end could be built to
provide this support.
Clutchless shifting an EV with a clutch is harder than it needs to be
because of the inertia of the clutch and flywheel. Clutchless
shifting of an ICE is more of an RPM matching game and not really
like a clutchless EV. Information about the specific tranny would
allow people to make more specific comments.
Neon
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