EV Digest 3883
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Fwd: Re: Brake Retraction Springs Quote
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Fwd: Re: Brake Retraction Springs Quote
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: FCEV are EV's too
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: FCEV are EV's too
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Reinhard, Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Great big switch
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Running clutchless?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: FCEV are EV's too
by James Watson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Motorcycle transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Motorcycle transmissions
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by spidercats <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Gadget's BMW was RE: Motorcycle transmissions
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) RE: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> I'd give that one a long hard think before I replaced disc with
> drum brakes!
You're right -- in most cases, disk brakes are better than drum brakes.
The advantages outweigh the disadvantages.
> with normal, non-rusted, safe disc brakes there is minimal rolling
> resistance.
Minimal, yes. But there *is* drag. Every disk brake I've ever seen had
some drag. In many cases, it is rather significant. Whereas carefully
adjusted drum brakes can have zero drag. If you're building a solar car
or something to win some range contest, every little bit helps.
> a fair number of EV carry a pretty heavy load of batteries making
> the brakes more critical than with the ICE car it was before.
True. However, many EV are only used for low-speed, short-range,
around-town commuting. If this is how you drive, it is unlikely that you
will strain the brakes.
> if you don't have regen, you have no braking effect from the drive
> train, so your brakes are all you've got.
True; but if you *do* have regen, the brakes get a *lot* less use. Drum
brakes can suffice.
> Fourth, disc brakes are better brakes in general.
Probably true on average. However, there are big differences. A good set
of drum brakes can outperform a bad set of disk brakes. Given that
carmakers save every nickel they can, some car's disk brakes are pretty
bad!
> if a brake is dragging, it's not working right and you should fix it.
Except that most disk brakes have no adjustment to control drag. It is
what it is, and you are basically stuck with it (unless you are willing
to make "unautorized modifications").
Whereas drum brakes are pretty simple. It's easy to fiddle with them so
they don't drag at all.
> Disc brakes are just better technology.
Be careful with this kind of reasoning! "Better" is a judgement call. It
depends on your point of view, not objective facts. You can easily have
a situation where drum brakes are a better choice despite being an
earlier technology.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:39 AM 10/28/2004, you wrote:
> Disc brakes are just better technology.
Be careful with this kind of reasoning! "Better" is a judgement call. It
depends on your point of view, not objective facts. You can easily have
a situation where drum brakes are a better choice despite being an
earlier technology.
Like on really big trucks.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:23 PM
Subject: RE: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
> Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > As always Roger you have some good points, and missed some of
> > the angles that I am trying to make a point of.
>
> Thanks, Rich. I'll try to catch some of the angles that got away ;^>
>
> > The Warmth
> > level needs to be brought back from flame to a good heat...
>
> Whew! Much appreciated. ;^>
>
> > The simple thing is if the charger is set to say...191
> > volts, and the Regs are set to 14.8...Should a reg not do
> > it's thing... the charger doesn't really get to far ahead of
> > the game. It could if you have a really out of equalization
> > Battery... but generally... the abuse is minor. If you had
> > the charger set to 240 volts.... and no regs... Danger Will
> > Robinson Danger!!
>
> But this is exactly the scenario with a public charging station that has
> to safely charge 156V Goldie, 120V me, 300V+ Victor, etc. Clearly, the
> charger cannot be set safely for me any allow either of you to charge,
> nor can it be set safely for Victor and avoid frying our packs should we
> have a reg fault.
>
New format, on the parts we agree on I am deleting them... this thing is
getting long but covering aLOT of really important EV points.
Ok two points here... the Card swipe I refered to above was not only
credit data, but basic charger programming. Ie Max amp Max volts, and taper
down to current.
Some corse tuning is really a good idea. Right now we Key this into the
Software...on my old laptop.
And two... the Reg fed back data allows the battery module itself to
yank back the charger. This concept works for My Regs, and anyother BMS
module that can assert a 5 volt "BACK OFF!" signal.
Mk2Bs have this. This is as basic a command as you can get. and a analog
interface already exisits, the RegBuss.
> It might be possible for us to punch in some appropriate voltage and
> current limits into the pump before it starts cramming the amps into our
> pack, but I think that scheme would be doomed due to the likelihood of
> finger trouble/dyslexia, etc. when entering the limits.
>
The battery level tuned Reg solve this issue. Both Regs and Charge Vlim data
points have to fail to have a bad overcharge.
> > and we are still adding
> > software and control lines to cover the needed data points.
>
> Once again, I wasn't mentioning these things because I thought you
> weren't already aware of them; rather, I wanted to make the point that a
> public filling station will need something more elaborate than a set of
> regs and a big charger to make it safe for Granny.
>
The PC and the 1000s lines of code... are areal tool for this problem.
The other is the..actual charge PORT.. and how much brains and interlocks we
use and need. The Port issue is nasty enough that I have purposely kept it
out of the hard bidding process, Until my client settles on the one we
really are going to use. Right now it's a Anderson 175 amp Blue and a
RegBuss RJ14 plug. Pretty basic. The charger itself has a precharge
function, and a reverse polarity test, and a contactor that won't drop in
until all the saftey tests pass. The test points and ladder logic is getting
long...
> > Now you are talking about a all encompassing
> > BMS... it does everything... and that's a very large
> > project... as daunting as a 36Kw power stage and control.
>
> I agree that it is a big task, but not that I am necessarily envisioning
> an all-encompassing BMS. My key thought is that to be safe for the
> general public the charger must refuse to charge (or default to some
> 'safe' charge rate) if it determines that the required themal and/or
> voltage based shutdown signals from the battery are not present or
> functional. Your regs seem to have the capability to provide the
> required data and shutdown signal, but the default appears to be for the
> charger to run flat out in the *absence* of a signal from the regs
> (meaning that if the shutdown signal connection fails the charger cooks
> the pack instead of shutting down immediately), and it is not clear if
> there is a means for the charger to interrogate the regs to confirm that
> they are all present and accounted for prior to opening the throttle to
> danger levels.
>
Good point... You can assume that if the safeties are not there I am the
safety feed back, and the chargers all have amp control knobs on them. I
turn them down as I see trouble.. this is how it works right now since most
of the time I am testing the power stages... not the software control. I run
it manually... often when testing parts and controls.
> > But as always.... you digress from the main
> > points. We count on you Roger to slightly sidestep the issuse
> > to find points that can't be solved %100. If we deem a
> > Battery pack is unsafe to charge without a operating BMS...
> > Well then maybe the software should flag that point and
> > terminate the charge cycle... Happy??? We have planned for
> > the sky to fall.
>
> Sorry, I did digress. It is unfair to suggest that I did so to try to
> find points that can't be solved 100%, however. The point is that what
> you have today is *not* a complete quick charger that is ready for
> Granny to use. So, comparing the ease/speed that you can connect Goldie
> to your 36kW feed when it doesn't include the reg connections required
> for safety in general use, and the fill time does not include time
> required for the charger to confirm the pack is safe to charge, etc. to
> the actually implemented H2 refueling stations with their (probably)
> excessive safeties, etc. tilts things unfairly to your advantge.
>
Clearly I am still assembleing the needed gear, and brains and firmware.
Granny CAN charge with it... IF it is already programmed for her use.
Like it's ready for a fleet of Sparrows.... or any 156 volt AGM PbLa
pack......Right now!
Sorry I could not resist
> > I have assumed that liquid transfer is the faster
> > by far method. I am just letting you all know that some of us
> > are cutting the leads down, and at a pretty good rate. There
> > is now way we can transfer as much energy as a 1 inch nozzle
> > and Diesel. I just doubt that H2 is as fast and effortless as
> > our current fuels. Grant me that without cutting the concept
> > to little pieces that can be answered in a myriad ways...
>
> Agreed and done! ;^>
>
> I agree that quick charging advances may get the BEV to a similarly fast
> and effortless refill as H2, and that H2 may not be as fast and
> effortless as our present fuels. I'm pretty sure that H2 will still
> have an edge over the BEV refill time, but would sure like to be proven
> wrong ;^>
>
I am going to try!!
> > Just as I thought...
> > We are on the same side of the argument...
> > We just have to Joust about it....
>
> Yep, as usual ;^>
>
> (It *was* fun while it lasted, though, wasn't it? ;^)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
Uhhhh Hun!
I learned quite a bit...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bull Victor...
The charger will be universal, the software will be tailored to the User
and or customer.
Right now it's a Spectrol insulated screw driver and a deft hand on the AMP
knob.
Soon it will be:
Goldie [ENTER]
GONEPOSTAL[ENTER}
CALPOPE[ENTER]
Same profile as Gp by the way.
We intend to and are building a data base to do just this.
Asking for any charge profile is now just a coding effort. Joe actucally has
as charger doing negative and positive amps on command.
12 step??? ramped rates??/ hold times, pauses, pulses... we can do it.
And from 12 volts to 450, and from milliamps to dozzens of Kw.
It's still under construction.. but we have done all the above...
Eating DC would let us exceede the grid power limits while doing a Brainy
Dump charge cycle.
Yea Victor... you don't need it and can't use it... I know.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
> I know a PFC can eat DC, but this have nothing to do with my point.
> Take my pack - LiIons *requiring* slow charge (BTW with pulse
> variable current, but such control unit can be attached to a PFC).
>
> So how do I benefit from dump charger if my pack can eat only 15A?
> I *don't want* more than 30 amps because it will harm the pack.
>
> So my point again - the dump station isn't for everybody, and you can't
> make it universal because everyone's battery is different. If everyone's
> battery would be at least lead acid (but different voltages and
capacities),
> it would be easier to adjust monster charger, but still do dump charge.
>
> Perhaps no NiCD, LiIon, pretty much anything other than lead acid
> is allower to be dump charged, so the benefit of having such charger
> is proportionally reduced. Today - not a lot, as 95% of cars are still
> lead sleds. But wait a few years.
>
> Victor
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >>The problem with dump concept is assumption that everyone use batteries
> >>allowing dump charging. To make it universal is about as fifficult as
> >>
> >>
> >making
> >
> >
> >>universal charger for any laptop in existence.
> >>
> >>Victor
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >In case you don't know a PFC charger can suck DC, and boost it or Buck it
to
> >what ever voltage is nesssary.
> > It's entirely possible to have a Battery bank feed a PFC charger
stack
> >for even higher peak power levels. But now... it gets a LOT more
> >complicated....
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
>
> CH4 vs H2
>
> Each molecule takes up the same space in the tank. The CNG
> molecule holds 4 hydrogens and a carbon. This works out to about four
times
> the energy for that same sized tank.
>
> LNG is much much more compact.
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
> Whoops Bill if you oxidize the Ch4.. you a lot more from the Carbon
burning than a single H.
But in FC it's dumped over board.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am camled down...
What I ment was that we could use a combination of Dump pack, and the
grid as a supply to feed a PFC???
The PFC??? would be what is programmed to feed the target pack.. of Say...
Lions... You can't dump them just stuff 3C into them...
That at 400 volts is more than the dump pack can push.....
With a Back up pack, and Grid.. I can feed them at thier limit. That all my
client wants to do, Feed his Stuff at it's limit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
> Rich, that's OK, calm down. It has nothing to do
> with me. *Anyone* who dont use lead acid type battery
> is not your application simply because no other
> chemistry allows dump charging without harming
> battery.
>
> I'm not saying you're wasting your time.
> I'm not even saying you're wasting your time for me.
> I'm saying you cannot make universal dump charger
> for any battery, it simply has to do with non-lead acid
> battery chemistry, *not* with your ability to build
> power stuff or sense the market for the most green.
>
> Victor
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >VICTOR!!!
> >
> > You are NOT my application!!
> >If you don't need to recharge in a Day....
> >A service sized high speed charger is a waste of your time.
> >Don't Knock me for it, just because you don't need it.
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gadget..
What kind of trannsmissions to they offer??
I have heard Auto and CVT... any full manuals?
I would love to have one... but.....I have to con my Redhead out of her 3.8
liter minivan.
She of course needs a Auto tranny.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
>
> --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > We just double the pack size , put a plug on the
> > charge controller and
> > turn off the breaker to the fuel cell. Once in a
> > while, when we need to
> > go on a long trip we start the fuel-cell on board
> > generator!
>
>
> I just bought an Escape hybrid to today with that in
> mind. of course I will let my wife drive the thing for
> a while before I start playing with it. I have my
> plate full with some other ev projects first. I was
> really fun driving the thing around on the
> residential streets, it was in full ev mode for at
> least a mile before the motor kicked back on.
>
> If anyone in the Los Angeles area is looking for an
> Escape hybrid I know of a dealer here who has a lot
> full of them. I drove in today just to look and he had
> exactly what we wanted so we drove it home,
>
> Gadget
>
>
>
>
> =====
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because most of us don't have that luxury of sitting around and watching the
Grass grow.
I do a few charge cycles a day, Sitting around and watching 3 kw soak
into Goldie when I have a build crew begging for parts and tools is NOT
very relaxing.
Plus I normally have many oz of highly Caffinated liquids coursing through
me.
4kw was irritating slow yesterday, I need to up the charger cable size
to #8 from my old PFC30 so I can suck a full 6Kw. The 30 has the RegBuss
wired to it...
The Monster charger, does Not at the moment....
It will by Dark tonight....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 6:34 AM
Subject: RE: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
> At 10/27/2004 12:20 PM, you wrote:
> >Europositron may indeed be a load of BS. But if any technology does
emerge
> >that allows an EV to go 500 miles on a charge, Rich Rudman may be selling
> >quite a few more of his PFC50's. For example, if a car that goes 500
miles
> >gets 200Wh/mile, then you'd need 100000Wh to recharge it. With 50A *
220V =
> >11000W, you'd still need over 9 hours even with a PFC50 to charge the
thing
> >from home, best case.
> >
> >Bill Dennis
>
> After driving 500 miles I like to eat dinner, (1 hour), check email and
> read (1 hour), get a good 8 hours of sleep, take a shower and have
> breakfast (another hour). So 9 hours to recharge is no problem. Why do
> people always worry about how long it takes to do things that do not
> require constant monitoring.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There has to be some reason why no NiMh is used in phones or laptops
anymore. Could it be the NiMh guys got screwed by Li Ion comming in so
quick. The only market left for them is in consumer rechargables from aaa
to D cells you get a t Radio Shack. They missed the boat because their
prices were too high. Li Ion came in, under cut them & that is the end of
the story. Better product at a better price. Li Ion keeps getting better
but they better watch out for Zinc-Air. If that comes in and they figure
out how to increase the energy release say bye bye to Li Ion. I am not even
talking about Hydrogen because I forsee the 8 bucks per gallon scaring
everyone that would buy it away. Of course those selling love it. The
American public will drive electric cars before paying 8 bucks a gallon for
hydrogen. Lawrence Rhodes............
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I think it is very important to note that in a 5 year period in the
1990's the laptop and cellphone industries went from Nicad to Ni Mh and
at last to Li Ion. They never looked back. Nuf said. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
Higher charge density, expected life of maybe 3-4 years for a laptop, if
that, and I can tell you I've had LiIon batteries from Dell which started
having problems in less than 2 years (and others with the same part number
and rating, which did not). Plus I bet most laptop users don't discharge
past maybe 60-70% on at least half their cycles, maybe more. There's
probably research on it.
I charge mine (currently a Powerbook) probably 75% of the time I'm using
it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The guys in the lab coats sure didn't appreciate you sneaking up and
popping a paper bag behind them :-)
Really? What a joker. "Wisenheimer" so it's deserved. Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:08 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
I'm not sure everyone realizes the difference between when it burns, and
when it explodes. H2 will burn at an even wider concentration range, but
detonates over most of the range.
Also, last I paid attention, foolcell powered cars are still hybrid; they
still require a battery pack for load leveling. O.K., it could be ultra
caps as well, but it needs something. A shame, though. Design a real
good electric car, but replace most of the batteries with a fuel cell and
related support equipment.
Hey Bill, remember about 15 or so years ago when we saw _solid_ hydrogen?
The guys in the lab coats sure didn't appreciate you sneaking up and
popping a paper bag behind them :-)
- Steven Ciciora
Transfilling H2 is a tricky business.
It is not quite the same as CNG, and isn't remotely like LNG.
You have to be careful not to overheat the tank being filled. You also
have to be very careful not to fill an "empty" tank with air in it.
Sparks are an issue as the ignition temperature for H2 is just a few
hundred degrees C. The explosive limits are very board, as I recall they
are something like 2% to 95%. This means almost any mixture with air will
explode if confined. Also, the flame is invisible in daylight.
The good thing about hydrogen is that it is REALLY buoyant. If you
release
it outdoors, it goes straight up and is gone immediately.
The only compact way to store it in a vehicle is as a liquid. Not
terribly
convenient to transfer.
Why not simply leave it as LNG and use it in a hybrid car that will go
twice as far?
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the CVT and can't believe the performance!I
punched the thing at 60 and left my wife following me
in the BMW in the dust. I'll scan the specs and post
them to my site.
Gadget
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gadget..
> What kind of trannsmissions to they offer??
> I have heard Auto and CVT... any full
> manuals?
> I would love to have one... but.....I have to con my
> Redhead out of her 3.8
> liter minivan.
> She of course needs a Auto tranny.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
>
>
> >
> > --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > We just double the pack size , put a plug on
> the
> > > charge controller and
> > > turn off the breaker to the fuel cell. Once in a
> > > while, when we need to
> > > go on a long trip we start the fuel-cell on
> board
> > > generator!
> >
> >
> > I just bought an Escape hybrid to today with that
> in
> > mind. of course I will let my wife drive the thing
> for
> > a while before I start playing with it. I have my
> > plate full with some other ev projects first. I
> was
> > really fun driving the thing around on the
> > residential streets, it was in full ev mode for at
> > least a mile before the motor kicked back on.
> >
> > If anyone in the Los Angeles area is looking for
> an
> > Escape hybrid I know of a dealer here who has a
> lot
> > full of them. I drove in today just to look and he
> had
> > exactly what we wanted so we drove it home,
> >
> > Gadget
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> >
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
going that route. Until then the Horse is dead lets
stop beating it to death, unless you have a link of
actual products being sold today.
Here you go
http://www.fuelcellstore.com/cgi-bin/fuelweb/view=NavPage/cat=27
http://www.anuvu.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am a little stumped. I have been searching for a pack switch. Since I am
using a high voltage AC system (312VDC), I need a switch that can handle
this voltage. I have tried the local industrial electrical supply places,
and the switches are HUGE! Anybody have any other suggestions?
thanks
Don
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lots of good points have been brought up. One I haven't seen yet: If
you have a clutch you'll be more likely to shift, and be able to keep
the motor nearer its efficiency peak. This won't be a huge effect,
but a DC motor is about 5% more efficient near 4k rpm than below 2k
rpm.
Second, this won't matter much on the flats, but if you have hills
that 2 or more seconds you lose going 1st to 2nd can mean some mph
you lose that you have to reaccelerate to regain.
Third (now this is really scraping the bottom of the barrel :) ) with
the clutch you regain some of the motor's rotational inertia that
would otherwise be wasted heating up the synchro.
Now in favor of eliminating the clutch: You'll save about 1% of the
car's weight, so for steady state cruising you'll use 1% less energy
at low speeds, and about 0.5% less energy at highway speeds. All
things being equal, you'll use about 2% less energy to accelerate.
So to summarize and generalize, it's not a huge difference, we're
talking a couple percent. If the clutch encourages more shifting or
you do hills, keeping the clutch will be a bit more efficient. If its
flat, you pick the best gears (more likely if you do steady speeds),
then clutchless would be a bit more efficient.
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I find many of your comments to be of interest in the EV group. Could you
add me to your e-mailing list from your website??
Thanks,
Jim Watson
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Reverend Gadget
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:19 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We just double the pack size , put a plug on the
> charge controller and
> turn off the breaker to the fuel cell. Once in a
> while, when we need to
> go on a long trip we start the fuel-cell on board
> generator!
I just bought an Escape hybrid to today with that in
mind. of course I will let my wife drive the thing for
a while before I start playing with it. I have my
plate full with some other ev projects first. I was
really fun driving the thing around on the
residential streets, it was in full ev mode for at
least a mile before the motor kicked back on.
If anyone in the Los Angeles area is looking for an
Escape hybrid I know of a dealer here who has a lot
full of them. I drove in today just to look and he had
exactly what we wanted so we drove it home,
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with
shared engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor
this isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission
from the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably
< 18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900
- $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's
a small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you sure you want a transmission. I am running a 48V 400 amp Alltrax
controller, an ADC 6.7 inch motor and a single 14 to 41 gear ratio. It's
not quick for a motorcycle, but easily keeps up with cars. I top out at
just over 60mph, but could change that if I went to a 72V controller.
Unless you need drag racing type accelaration and a very high top end I
wouldn't bother with a transmission. Just pick an appropriate
motor/controller combo and select a decent gear ratio and you'll be fine.
You will already have a hard time finding space for enough batteries to get
decent range.
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Motorcycle transmissions
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:16:39 -0700
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV motorcycle,
and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with shared
engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this isn't
really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from the
motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably <
18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to the
demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900 -
$3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be cheaper,
but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/ considerably less
beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at the Metro
transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and modifying would be
necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other small-ish car transmissions.
I've even looked at the overdrive units found on (I think) Volvos; they're
2-speed, but the ration difference is really small. Also, the 2-speed
"transfer case" from a 4wd might be an option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though cost
and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's a
small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the frame),
I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This guy used a BMW- see Website: www.reverendgadget.com
Looked pretty straight forward.
With a Harley Pulley do you really need a clutch? Maybe a Honda CVT would do? Such as
the Silverwing uses. There is also the Ridley CVT for Harley's as well.
Those are the methods I am exploring when I build my Trimagnum EV.
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with
shared engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor
this isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission
from the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably
< 18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900
- $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's
a small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with
shared engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor
this isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the
transmission from the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike
(preferably < 18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be
enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due
to the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is
$900 - $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to
be cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference
is really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might
be an option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If
there's a small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill
(and the frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
I have been thinking along the lines of a scooter EV. Like you I thought
of transmission but my sloution is going thru the CV system attached to
the rear wheel blocks of most scooters. Otherwise Enfield India do
split motor / transmission units which are good for 60 - 80 mph
depending on the sprocket match up.
Sniper8052
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gadget's bike is badass! How does she perform though?
Brett
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:33 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
This guy used a BMW- see Website: www.reverendgadget.com
Looked pretty straight forward.
With a Harley Pulley do you really need a clutch? Maybe a Honda CVT would
do? Such as the Silverwing uses. There is also the Ridley CVT for Harley's
as well.
Those are the methods I am exploring when I build my Trimagnum EV.
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle, and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with
shared engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor
this isn't really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission
from the motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
Factors:
1) Torque rating -- Can it handle the torque / HP?
2) Price
3) Unit cannot be too much wider than the width of the bike (preferably
< 18")
4) Preferably, with input/output shafts parallel
5) Assuming an electric reverse (if any), 2 speeds (gears) should be enough
Options:
Harley transmission
BSA / Triumph transmission
Small car transmission (Geo Metro)
Custom
Something else
A Harley transmission is (by far) the easiest to acquire, though due to
the demand, often go for > $700 even for a used one. A new one is $900
- $3000. The BSA / Triumph transmissions (aka "preunit") tend to be
cheaper, but are more difficult to find. Also, they /appear/
considerably less beefy than the Harley & it's clones. I've looked at
the Metro transmission, and it appears a good deal of cutting and
modifying would be necessary. I'm open to suggestions for other
small-ish car transmissions. I've even looked at the overdrive units
found on (I think) Volvos; they're 2-speed, but the ration difference is
really small. Also, the 2-speed "transfer case" from a 4wd might be an
option.
I don't see a problem with using a "custom" type transmission, though
cost and availability is a concern.
I'm not locked into a "made for a motorcycle" transmission. If there's
a small car / ATV / Industrial(!) tranny that fits the bill (and the
frame), I'd be willing to consider it.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> There has to be some reason why no NiMh is used in phones or laptops
> anymore.
One reason is that these are low-current, long-running-time
applications. Cellphones and laptops are expected to run for many hours
on their batteries. LiIons work better at low currents.
Another is that consumers place a very high value on small size. They
want the smallest possible cellphone or laptop. LiIons have a higher
energy density (more watthours per pound).
And, people are willing to pay very high prices for phone and laptop
batteries. LiIons are far more expensive per pound or per watthour.
Doesn't matter -- people will pay it!
> The American public will drive electric cars before paying 8 bucks
> a gallon for hydrogen.
Maybe. The American public seems incredibly easy to con. Look at the
marketing gimmicks they use to sell cellphones and computers. What if
they apply them to cars?
Henry Ford once said, "If I could own the gas stations, I'd *give* away
the cars!" It would not surprise me if some in the auto industry are
looking at H2 as way to do this. Imagine... "Sign up here for a FREE
car! Plus our "modest" monthly fee for the special fuel it requires."
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I HAVE A USED HARLEY TRANS BEST CASE AN GEARS AVAIBLE WITH LESS THAN 1
MILE.$400.00 dENNIS
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Amen to that. One need only look at the current choices for political
office, from president to dogcatcher, to reach that conclusion. :-)
Sometimes I believe it's because they want someone just as ignorant and
selfish as themselves, as long as they think they're getting cut in for a
"piece of the action". If ignorance is bliss, then wisdom is folly.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:05 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: BOT: Re: Hydrogen fuel [vs. batteries]
Maybe. The American public seems incredibly easy to con. Look at the
marketing gimmicks they use to sell cellphones and computers. What if
they apply them to cars?
Henry Ford once said, "If I could own the gas stations, I'd *give* away
the cars!" It would not surprise me if some in the auto industry are
looking at H2 as way to do this. Imagine... "Sign up here for a FREE
car! Plus our "modest" monthly fee for the special fuel it requires."
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
