EV Digest 3887
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Battery Box Gauge
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Easy 300VDC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re:
by "Vanderwp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 3rd clutch option
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Clutchless
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Long, Data, Data)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Easy 300VDC
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Clutchless
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Battery Box Gauge
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: FCEV are EV's too
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: ETEK Motor Info
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: running clutchless
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Clutchless
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Clutchless: uP Control
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: FCEV are EV's too
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Thanks :)
by "Vanderwp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Dump charging profiles
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
> So, how could users who the charger doesn't know already quickly
> program their particular charge profile needs?
I think the only practical way to make a public charger work with all
types of batteries is to require that the battery pack include some sort
of "smart" control logic to identify what it is. The charger doesn't
depend on the user to set some control or enter some code; the charger
ASKS the battery pack what voltage and current it wants, and proceeds
accordingly.
The techies will want a PC in every battery pack, with a web interface
and WiFi port, and establish some elaborate protocol written in Java so
you can log onto your EV from your office to see how it's charging.
The luddites will just put a couple resistors on a little connector,
whose values define the current and voltage. When the pack reaches
"full", a relay or something in the EV will open these resistors to tell
the charge it wants "zero" current or volts.
Either way, it works. You can't have the wrong codes or a careless user
destroying a battery pack.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> For those who have built sheet metal or aluminum battery boxes,
> what gauge metal did you use?
Don't do this
-------------
My first EV's "battery box" was really just the bed of my Datsun pickup;
steel about 0.050" thick. I just placed the flooded golf cart batteries
directly on the floor of the bed, and built a wooden frame to wedge them
forward between the wheel wells and the cab. In about 2 years, they ate
holes in the floor, and rotted the wood. Of course, I was helping them
gas with my (err) 'enthusiastic' charging.
This worked
-----------
My second EV's battery box was made from 1" and 2" styrafoam sheets,
fiberglassed inside and out. The lid was the same fiberglass/foam
material. This box sat in a square angle iron frame, that rolled in/out
from the rear of the car for servicing. It held 14 6v golf cart
batteries, in a 2x7 array.
This box worked fine for over 10 years. When I retired it, it has
numerous stress cracks and a few minor water leaks, but had contained
all the acid and left the steel frame intact.
This also worked
----------------
My next EV was a used ComutaVan mail truck. It had two battery boxes,
each with six 6v golf cart batteries. The battery boxes were 5-sided,
0.090" aluminum sheet, with welded corners, and a drain hole in the
bottom center. The ComutaVan was 12 years old when I got it from a
junkyard. Even though the batteries had been left in until they died,
froze, and dumped their acid, the aluminum was in pretty good shape. The
only corrosion was around the steel bolts that they used to attach these
boxes to the frame.
I lined the boxes with 1" and 0.5" thick styrafoam, and replace the
batteries. The big Lester charger made them gas a lot, so the inside of
the box was frequently wet. So, I removed the batteries, put a big
10-mil polyethylene bag in the battery box, and then put the batteries
inside that. This kept the battery box dry, and prevented further
corrosion around the battery box mounting bolts. I sold it around 1998,
and the boxes were still good.
With steel
----------
My current EV's rear battery box is 3/16" steel plate, welded into the
vehicle's frame where the trunk floor, spare tire and gas tank used to
be. This is really much heavier than it needs to be. The surrounding
floor material is only 0.040" or so, and the frame rails about 0.080".
This box is painted with "Rustoleum" primer, then an overcoat of regular
car body paint. The box is lined with 1/4"-1/2" styrafoam. The batteries
are sealed lead-acids this time (Concordes AGMs). They've been in there
almost 7 years now, and though small amounts of acid have seeped onto
the terminals of a few, there is no battery box damage.
With plastic
------------
The front battery box on this EV is a 5-sided box made of 1/4"
polyethylene with welded corners, and a 3/16" polyethylene lid. It is
also lined with styrafoam (insulation is mandatory in cold climates). It
mounts in a steel angle iron frame. Polyethylene is immune to battery
acid, and there are no leaks or corrosion.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> For testing the various components **before** they are installed into the
> car, I am wanting to have a 300VDC 2kw power supply. Any suggestions for
> how I can do this **cheaply**?
>
> What comes to mind are:
> - a bunch more test batteries
> - a voltage double circuit of some sort
I am faced with this very problem! The Tango is running ~300vdc, and I
needed a source for testing various components for it.
The first test supply was a phase-controlled light dimmer circuit
feeding a 120vac-120vac isolation transformer. The secondary had a
fullwave doubler (2 diodes, 2 filter capacitors). It was unregulated;
just adjust the pot of the phase control to set the output voltage. It
was good for about 50 watts.
The second was made from parts from a dead computer switching power
supply. This one had a variac on the AC input, the switcher's power
switch, EMI filter, rectifiers, and filter capacitors. The output was
"hot" to the AC line, and could be adjusted from 0-400vdc. It was good
for about 300 watts.
The third was similar, but scaled up to handle up to 600w. The variac
was external (I just used my bench variac). This one also included
passive power factor correction (just an inductor and capacitor).
The fourth one consists of a big 2kw 60hz toroid isolation transformer
with 240vac secondary, EMI filter, and bridge rectifier with 2 diodes
and 2 SCRs. The bridge feeds a series inductor and big capacitor (which
will be a PFC stage when I get it finished). The control logic uses
phase control for soft-startv (slowly charge up the output capacitor to
avoid high AC inrush currents), and to regulate the voltage at the
desired level.
This is all leading towards a much bigger charger, of course :-)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hm. This sounds a lot like the MagneCharger standard. Each car had it's
own set of parameters and they sucked power from the teat at their own rate.
Unfortunate it got buried; I really like the concept (and re-programming
my MC controller to be easier on the batteries)
CZ
Lee Hart wrote:
Lightning Ryan wrote:
So, how could users who the charger doesn't know already quickly
program their particular charge profile needs?
I think the only practical way to make a public charger work with all
types of batteries is to require that the battery pack include some sort
of "smart" control logic to identify what it is. The charger doesn't
depend on the user to set some control or enter some code; the charger
ASKS the battery pack what voltage and current it wants, and proceeds
accordingly.
The techies will want a PC in every battery pack, with a web interface
and WiFi port, and establish some elaborate protocol written in Java so
you can log onto your EV from your office to see how it's charging.
The luddites will just put a couple resistors on a little connector,
whose values define the current and voltage. When the pack reaches
"full", a relay or something in the EV will open these resistors to tell
the charge it wants "zero" current or volts.
Either way, it works. You can't have the wrong codes or a careless user
destroying a battery pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone here have, or heard about the Columbia rear differential? It was
offered on some Fords, back around the post-WWII era. It was 2-speed, and
was very popular in hot rods. I think it may have been a light truck
rear-end, thus may have been fairly sturdy. Just another option, maybe.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: 3rd clutch option
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't be thinking clutch or not and shift to EVclutch or
ICE clutch.
The "ultimate" solution is probably to eliminate the clutch, but put a
tach on the motor and transmission shafts. Have a feedback and control
system that drives the motor speed to match the gear speed. Then you can
just drop it into any gear without grinding.
I think this is rarely done because it is trickier than it sounds! On
the other hand, maybe not enough people have tried...
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree with Damon mostly. But one thing he leaves out is aerodynamics.
With proper aero you can radically increase range. This is mostly with
motorcycles. At freeway speeds they get killed in the range department.
Cedrick Lynch can go 80 miles at 60 mph with his recumbent. This is on
level ground. He uses just 4 Optimas to do this. His vehicle only draws 2
hp to go 60 mph. That is the engineering needed to make it work. Lawrence
Rhodes........But then you are driving a little car and not a motorcycle
some would say.......................
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
>From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Motorcycle transmissions
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:22:51 -0700
Performance is my main reason for a transmission. I have an ICE
motorcycle, and I'd rather not "downgrade".
I'll let you in on a secret that I will probably get crucified for.
Anytime you convert from an ICE to a BEV it is going to be a downgrade.
You will certainly be able to get ICE like performance from an EM, but
don't expect to be able to get that kind of performance for more than 5
miles unless of course you are planning on wading into the very expensive
and practically uncharted territory of Lithium cells.
Our battery technology is still very limiting. You can build an EV for
speed or for range, but you still cannot have both, unless you are
willing to pay 10 times the price of a similar performing ICE.
I love my electric motorcycle and there are very good reasons for having
EV's and lots of situations where they fit the bill, but you will not be
able to build an electric motorcycle with the same perfomance and
functionallity as an ICE version. My motorcycle turned out to be a
compromise of performance and range. When I completely get my latest
NiCad pack built I expect to have between 15 - 20 miles range with small
car type performance and a total price tag of under $2000. I could get
it to what I was hoping to achieve when I first started the project,
which was to make my 26 mile one way commute to work over nasty hills and
with lots of freeway speeds if I went out and spent ~$6000 on some new
Li-Poly cells, but I don't see me going that route anytime soon. I
actually did take it to work one time last year with a very large pack of
NiCads, but I came up a couple miles short on range and a bit
underpowered on the hills. Still, my motorcycle (and most EVs) are put
together in such a way, that it is just awaiting the arrival of the
miracle battery to transform it into an ICE killer. Nothing else needs
to be changed. I just need to drop in the unobtanium wonder cells :-)
You can make a very high performance EV motorcycle, but when your buddies
invite you along on their Saturday morning ride up into the mountains,
you will find yourself leaving the EM at home.
damon
_________________________________________________________________
Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok that said I got all the info for the Ni Cads I have but the problem now
is three strings. I wonder if each string could be automated. When one is
charged relays kick in to go to the next string untill they are all charged.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
Joe has been doing RC sized NIcads with a PFC20 and the pre code for the
monster chargers for years.
The numbers just get bigger. And how and what we count.
The monster code tracks volts amps Amphours Kwhr, and graphs them
realtime.
This drive code makes the monster charger anything But Dumb. The data
logging and tracking is lab grade work.
We can do plots and send and post the results. We can create data logs on
every and any charge cycle. I want loadable personality files for evey
different client and or EV.
I am getting what I want... but slowly.
IF you can write down how you want us to charge a battery, We can do it.
So...we have little fear we can make it happen.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
Will that include Ni Cad. Can that be incorporated into the PFC's yet?
Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
>
> Victor..
> My high amp customer... Is NOT lead Acid.
> He wants more that I can bring him.
>
> He is NOT you. Or most of my other customers.
>
> The charger WILL be flexable... I could charge your Ev at 8 amps...
>
> The charger will need no further hardware efforts to cover just about
any
> voltage and charge curves.
> That's what I Promised my Client...
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
brian baumel wrote:
> A micro controller and gear boxes would make care of the shifting
> and RPM matching, but the question is, how does the uC know what
> RPM to atch? I can easily put an encoder on the flywheel, but what
> internal gear should I be tracking... and how?
I think the microcontroller would look at motor rpm, and the
transmission's output rpm (i.e. road speed). From these, it can learn
the gear ratios of each gear.
The microcontroller would also have sensors to know what gear the driver
wants to shift into. It would use this data to decide whether the motor
needs to speed up or slow down to match.
For example, you are driving in 2nd gear. You let up the throttle (motor
is now freewheeling), and move the gearshift lever to neutral (with no
load on the gears, it moves easily into neutral). Then, as you continue
to move the gearshift toward 3rd gear, it closes a switch that tells the
microcontroller, "Aha; he's heading for 3rd. That's a 3:1 ratio, and the
transmission's output shaft is spinning at 1000 rpm. The motor is at
4000 rpm; so slow it down to 3000 rpm." So, the microcontroller commands
the motor controller to slow down (use regen if available; or just
switch a resistor across the motor to use dynamic braking if not).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I measured it under 30vdc. It has an amber and green light plus a red light
for on. Amber for charge green for charged where it actually doesn't
charge. The light goes to green(using battery power for this) for a second
then goes to amber to charge again. As the battery gets to a higher charge
level the green light stays on for longer and longer. I have seen 15 second
green to one second amber. Again this is the Currie Fast Charger.
Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Long, Data, Data)
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I left my wife's electric bike on charge for 5 years. Her batteries
are the best we have. It is a Currie conversion with the fast charger.
Lawrence, do you know what her charger is actually doing? What charging
algorithm does it use? What voltage is it holding the batteries at
long-term? That will tell you why it worked when so many others don't.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, you can bridge rectify 220 VAC to about 310 VDC (Lee??). Use big
caps. Naturally, this solution is quite lethal and not recommended.
Don Cameron wrote:
For testing the various components **before** they are installed into the
car, I am wanting to have a 300VDC 2kw power supply. Any suggestions for
how I can do this **cheaply**?
What comes to mind are:
- a bunch more test batteries
- a voltage double circuit of some sort
thanks
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>(use regen if available; or just switch a resistor across the motor to use
>dynamic braking if not).
Lee, I asked a question similar to this a few days ago and didn't get a
response. Since the 1st part of my daily commute is 5.5 miles downhill,
regen wouldn't do me much good. But I would indeed like to use motor
breaking to save wear and tear on the brakes. Can you show a quick diagram
of how this breaking resistor would be connected in a DC motor/Curtis
controller setup, and a possibly what rating you would recommend for the
resistor? Thanks
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Right now...
> you load the code..
> key in C for taper charge
> there are 4 flavors Test, cycle,taper, and manual mode
> Give it a file name
> key in :
> Max volts
> Max current
> Max Amphoure
> Min amps to terminate charge cycle.
"cycle"... how do you discharge? Do you use a power stage of the pfc-xx
to pwm current into an external load bank?
What information can I get at inside the PFC charger? Can it tell me
input current and/or output current? Is it easy to control anything else
besides the (normaly externally adjustable) voltage setpoint and the
(normally externally adjustable) current limit pot?
- Steven Ciciora
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any recommendations for battery boxes that might be exposed to rain or
splashes?
Lee Hart wrote:
For those who have built sheet metal or aluminum battery boxes,
what gauge metal did you use?
Don't do this
-------------
My first EV's "battery box" was really just the bed of my Datsun pickup;
steel about 0.050" thick. I just placed the flooded golf cart batteries
directly on the floor of the bed, and built a wooden frame to wedge them
forward between the wheel wells and the cab. In about 2 years, they ate
holes in the floor, and rotted the wood. Of course, I was helping them
gas with my (err) 'enthusiastic' charging.
This worked
-----------
My second EV's battery box was made from 1" and 2" styrafoam sheets,
fiberglassed inside and out. The lid was the same fiberglass/foam
material. This box sat in a square angle iron frame, that rolled in/out
from the rear of the car for servicing. It held 14 6v golf cart
batteries, in a 2x7 array.
This box worked fine for over 10 years. When I retired it, it has
numerous stress cracks and a few minor water leaks, but had contained
all the acid and left the steel frame intact.
This also worked
----------------
My next EV was a used ComutaVan mail truck. It had two battery boxes,
each with six 6v golf cart batteries. The battery boxes were 5-sided,
0.090" aluminum sheet, with welded corners, and a drain hole in the
bottom center. The ComutaVan was 12 years old when I got it from a
junkyard. Even though the batteries had been left in until they died,
froze, and dumped their acid, the aluminum was in pretty good shape. The
only corrosion was around the steel bolts that they used to attach these
boxes to the frame.
I lined the boxes with 1" and 0.5" thick styrafoam, and replace the
batteries. The big Lester charger made them gas a lot, so the inside of
the box was frequently wet. So, I removed the batteries, put a big
10-mil polyethylene bag in the battery box, and then put the batteries
inside that. This kept the battery box dry, and prevented further
corrosion around the battery box mounting bolts. I sold it around 1998,
and the boxes were still good.
With steel
----------
My current EV's rear battery box is 3/16" steel plate, welded into the
vehicle's frame where the trunk floor, spare tire and gas tank used to
be. This is really much heavier than it needs to be. The surrounding
floor material is only 0.040" or so, and the frame rails about 0.080".
This box is painted with "Rustoleum" primer, then an overcoat of regular
car body paint. The box is lined with 1/4"-1/2" styrafoam. The batteries
are sealed lead-acids this time (Concordes AGMs). They've been in there
almost 7 years now, and though small amounts of acid have seeped onto
the terminals of a few, there is no battery box damage.
With plastic
------------
The front battery box on this EV is a 5-sided box made of 1/4"
polyethylene with welded corners, and a 3/16" polyethylene lid. It is
also lined with styrafoam (insulation is mandatory in cold climates). It
mounts in a steel angle iron frame. Polyethylene is immune to battery
acid, and there are no leaks or corrosion.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When you do the Cycle profiles, You need to toggle the charger logic from
charger to Windloaded.(programmable load bank)
And switch the output DC from a battery to a suitable resistor load bank.
And switch the input from Grid to the battery. Joe has relays that do this.
You can get input current
LEM current... sums of input to output current
output volts/100
Line VRMS
Yes we use the whole PFC power stage to do a voltage controlled load.
The output will current regulate at the max current, the input will run at
the desired voltage pot setting.
With the PC interface you can control the amps and the volts.
And... you can do this DC input, and Boost or buck the output. Depending on
the load resistance and the input power.
You can drain a 24 volt pack while stuffing the result into a 240 volt load.
I use 2 4500 watt water heater elements in parallel in a metal tool box full
of water. This has been pushed to over 18Kw for a few brief seconds without
hitting the output over voltage setting of 450 volts.
The math says I can do over 30Kw peaks with this...
You are going to need a Shunt to get really good amps numbers. The Amps that
we play with are scaled, and are tuned to our application.
The monster charger, has a Shunt in it, we don't take the current data from
the inside power stage control loops. The cycler works the same way as the
monster charger.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
> > Right now...
> > you load the code..
> > key in C for taper charge
> > there are 4 flavors Test, cycle,taper, and manual mode
> > Give it a file name
> > key in :
> > Max volts
> > Max current
> > Max Amphoure
> > Min amps to terminate charge cycle.
>
> "cycle"... how do you discharge? Do you use a power stage of the pfc-xx
> to pwm current into an external load bank?
>
> What information can I get at inside the PFC charger? Can it tell me
> input current and/or output current? Is it easy to control anything else
> besides the (normaly externally adjustable) voltage setpoint and the
> (normally externally adjustable) current limit pot?
>
> - Steven Ciciora
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am really thinking about getting one.
the Redhead says I need to pay off her Minivan before I can get another car
payment.
Who do I squeeze for Big checks?????
I tell ya if I get one... it's gonna be EXACTLY what I want...
Green of course. Titanium green Clearcoat metalic.
No 4 wheel drive.
Auto if I have no choice about the CVT.
the Nav/Audiophile/ Energy display.
tow hooks.
And the service manuals, and programming heads.
The curse here is I get stuck with a Red one....
400 to 500 miles a tank full, and I can haul a LOT more green boxes on each
trip from Portland.
Try to stuff 6 to 8 PFC 30s and a couple of 50 chassis in a extended Cab
Ranger..... it gets rather comffy... and I can't tip my seat back....
I am toying with sending my Trusty Red Ranger down the road to get a
Escape...
There's one In the Ford shop at Port Townsend Wa.....
I better NOT take my check book the next time I run up to Rod's EVparts....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Batie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 03:28:07PM -0700, Rich Rudman wrote:
> > ALLLLRIght!!!
> > A hybrid that can get with it.
> > And it's a Ford!!
> >
> > > I got the CVT and can't believe the performance!I
> > > punched the thing at 60 and left my wife following me
> > > in the BMW in the dust. I'll scan the specs and post
> > > them to my site.
>
> Now you're making me anxious for mine to arrive --- it's only a week
> and a half away now... (supposedly)
>
> --
> Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
> alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
> PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
> 27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
>
> This fall, we have the choice between a police state and a nanny state.
> Both want most of our money and liberty, but the liberties one will take
> are a lot more severe than the other...
>
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--- Begin Message ---
has any one run an etek at 60V ?
I've heard of running them up to 72V. Todd Kollin has run them that hot
in tweaked versions of his electric GPR.
I'm in the process of setting one up at 72V on a Stiletto chopper with a
freewheel and a higher power Alltrax controller. I shouldn't have any of
the ETEK/Alltrax runaway problems with the freewheel.
Don't forget to upgrade your brakes! I'm adding dual discs in the front
to the existing single disc rear.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message ---
I woulda use the best Steel I could get not the Best Aluminum...
When my feet and toes are in the way... a few Oz of billet steel is cheap.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:19 AM
Subject: Re: running clutchless
> <snip>
> > I am considering the same but I also like
> > the "mechanical fuse" aspect the clutch adds.
> >
>
> If you can search the archives, Bill Dube (sometimes spelled Bill Dube')
> had some good comments about the huge shock to the transmission when you
> hit a pothole.
>
> As for me, I'm going clutchless, but hopefully not shiftless. My AC motor
> can spin almost 10K rpm, and the thought of spinning a massive clutch
> plate that fast scares me. The balance shop would not touch it after I
> told him how fast it might go. And I was worried that the slighest
> imbalance would bend the motor shaft.
>
> What I ended up doing is machining an adaptor out of 7075 aluminum that
> holds the inner portion of the clutch. It still has the springs between
> the two parts of the clutch to help take up some of the shock, and a tiny
> amount of misalignment. As for shifting, since my controler supports
> regen, I believe I can make an embedded controller that will measure the
> motor speed and the speed of the gears I will shift to, and quickly match
> the RPMs for easier shifting.
>
> I probably didn't need my home made adaptor balanced because they only
> drilled two little holes (I'm sure just to make me feel like I got
> something for my money!).
>
> "What?!? you charged me $40 just to drill those two tiny little holes???"
> "No, I charged you one dollar to drill those holes. I charged you $39 to
> figure out where to put those holes!" :-)
>
> - Steven Ciciora
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee, in my previous question about the resistor, I was concerned that it
would still cause motor arcing in an ADC motor. So I was wondering it a
properly sized resistor could be used that would still provide some braking,
but limit current flow enough to prevent arcing.
Bill Dennis
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I tried this before and what I eventually came up with was to put a button
on the shift stick and I press it when downshifting which blips the motor
(through the uP) to 1500 rpm's to synchro match. It was impossible for me to
downshift otherwise. I'm using a Geo Tracker tranny with new synchros.
Upshifting takes 1-2 seconds. I use 2nd, 3rd & 4th. Occasionally I use 1st
when going up my 30% grade to my mountain ridge solar home.
Mark in Fincastle (Roanoke) VA
----- Original Message -----
From: "brian baumel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Clutchless
> I am also considering a clutchless system, actually a clutchless and
shiftless type of system. a micro controller and gear boxes would take care
of the shifting and RPM matching, but the question is, how does the uC know
what RPM to match? I can easily put an encoder on the flywheel, but what
internal gear should I be tracking....and how? I plan on keeping the clutch
in there for the "mechanical fuse" advantage...
>
> Brian B.
>
> Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> I am considering the same but I also like
> >> the "mechanical fuse" aspect the clutch adds.
> >>
> >
> >
>
> >If you can search the archives, Bill Dube (sometimes spelled Bill Dube')
> >had some good comments about the huge shock to the transmission when you
> >hit a pothole.
>
> good point
>
> >As for me, I'm going clutchless, but hopefully not shiftless. My AC motor
> >can spin almost 10K rpm, and the thought of spinning a massive clutch
> >plate that fast scares me. The balance shop would not touch it after I
> >told him how fast it might go. And I was worried that the slighest
> >imbalance would bend the motor shaft.
>
> >What I ended up doing is machining an adaptor out of 7075 aluminum that
> >holds the inner portion of the clutch. It still has the springs between
> >the two parts of the clutch to help take up some of the shock, and a tiny
> >amount of misalignment. As for shifting, since my controler supports
> >regen, I believe I can make an embedded controller that will measure the
> >motor speed and the speed of the gears I will shift to, and quickly match
> >the RPMs for easier shifting.
>
> Awsome, My first idea was to use PM motors and a lot of shifting and was
thinking of the same type of shift control.
>
> >I probably didn't need my home made adaptor balanced because they only
> >drilled two little holes (I'm sure just to make me feel like I got
> >something for my money!).
>
> >"What?!? you charged me $40 just to drill those two tiny little holes???"
> > "No, I charged you one dollar to drill those holes. I charged you $39 to
> >figure out where to put those holes!" :-)
>
> Here is how we balance grinding wheels
> 1. we have a pair of level parallel bars
> 2. we put wheel on shaft and let the heavy part find the low spot, and
mark it
> 3. for the wheels there are weights onthe hub we can move, but on the
flywheel I would drill the hole a tad then re-mount
> 4. place back on level at same location and rotate it 90 degrees either
way
> if it is balanced, it stays there, otherwise it falls back to the same
heavy point
> (I used to wonder if it would ever find a new spot, but it never did)
> repeat until done
> this is done on the grinding wheels or the oscilations cause ripples in
the surface, I think it would work for flywheels perfectly.
>
>
> I will be giving it a try sooner or later. :-)
>
>
>
>
> >>
> - Steven Ciciora
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
--- End Message ---
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They do sell it by itself- you have to go to the parts section. Also you can call
Customer servirce and they are glad to offer information. I priced it. Don't recall
the amount.
Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:He's also using a shaft drive, which would
pretty much lock me into
using a BMW rear end. I don't think you'd need a clutch, as you can
often shift ICE motorcycles without the clutch; it would be easier with
electric since you can effectively drop the engine torque to zero by
rolling off the throttle.
Doesn't look like Ridley sells the tranny separate, plus I'm concerned
about it's efficiency.
Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
>This guy used a BMW- see Website: www.reverendgadget.com
>Looked pretty straight forward.
>
>With a Harley Pulley do you really need a clutch? Maybe a Honda CVT would do? Such as
>the Silverwing uses. There is also the Ridley CVT for Harley's as well.
>
>Those are the methods I am exploring when I build my Trimagnum EV.
>
>
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
--- End Message ---
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I saw the Escape Hybrid at the Long Beach Auto Show yesterday. Asked the spokesmodel
about the battery specs. She knew it was 330V, but had no clue as to the capacity, or
the replacement price.
I also checked out the new Prius. Asked that rep about whether they had any plans to
beef up the battery. She asked, "what, you mean for more performance?" I said, "No,
so it can be driven longer distances in EV-mode." As soon as she heard the word "EV"
she responded with, "Oh no, the Prius doesn't have to be plugged in."
I love how they're trained to respond to any EV questions with this obvious spin. She
didn't even answer the question I asked. Pavlov conditioning?
Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: "Reverend Gadget
Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
I got the CVT and can't believe the performance!I
punched the thing at 60 and left my wife following me
in the BMW in the dust. I'll scan the specs and post
them to my site.
Gadget
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Gadget..
> What kind of trannsmissions to they offer??
> I have heard Auto and CVT... any full
> manuals?
> I would love to have one... but.....I have to con my
> Redhead out of her 3.8
> liter minivan.
> She of course needs a Auto tranny.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:18 PM
> Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
>
>
> >
> > --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > We just double the pack size , put a plug on
> the
> > > charge controller and
> > > turn off the breaker to the fuel cell. Once in a
> > > while, when we need to
> > > go on a long trip we start the fuel-cell on
> board
> > > generator!
> >
> >
> > I just bought an Escape hybrid to today with that
> in
> > mind. of course I will let my wife drive the thing
> for
> > a while before I start playing with it. I have my
> > plate full with some other ev projects first. I
> was
> > really fun driving the thing around on the
> > residential streets, it was in full ev mode for at
> > least a mile before the motor kicked back on.
> >
> > If anyone in the Los Angeles area is looking for
> an
> > Escape hybrid I know of a dealer here who has a
> lot
> > full of them. I drove in today just to look and he
> had
> > exactly what we wanted so we drove it home,
> >
> > Gadget
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> >
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---
Passive RF ID Tags Apporximatly $1.00
Can be read from some distance
http://www.intersoft-us.com/prodtag.htm Nails? Conspiricy, conspircy!
Once an associated profile is stored > 10amps is made available
Active RF Tags
http://www.activewaveinc.com/products_active_tags.html
no central database, info on tag itself 279 feet, can you believe it
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I agree with Damon,
Run the math on how much efficiency (and torque) the transmission will get
you vs. using a larger motor and more batteries.
I found that the Honda Goldwing transmission and engine massed 250 pounds
(110 kg), where the electric motor(5 hp) weighed only 50 pounds (23 kg).
If I guestimate 1/2 of that was transmission weight, then it was worth over
1 kilowatt-hour of batteries.
(The math:
I'm using Hawker Genesis, lead-acid,
12 volt, 26 Amp-hour, 26 pounds (10 kg).
5 of these is 1384 kwh, at 20 hour rate.
1110 kwh at 30 min, 940 kwh at 15 min)
It also opened up enough space to cleanly mount a total of 10 batteries
instead of my originally planned 6.
I should have gone with a larger motor, since the final drive ratio of 3.6:1
is a bit sluggish to start off.
If you've got a similar gas powered bike, take it out on some flat open
space and do a coast-down test to get some numbers of the actual power
requirements at various speeds.
You can look at the results of my coast down test of a Honda Goldwing at:
http://www.generalist.org/madmike/coastdown.html
it only shows 10 runs, but the numbers matched up with the mathematical
predictions, within my measurement error range.
I'd love to see the same tests done by other people on other bikes.
Anyone with a running electric motorcycle have any hard power vs. speed
measurements?
Mike Shipway
> -----Original Message-----
> From: damon henry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 06:28 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Motorcycle transmissions
>
> Are you sure you want a transmission. I am running a 48V 400 amp Alltrax
> controller, an ADC 6.7 inch motor and a single 14 to 41 gear ratio. It's
> not quick for a motorcycle, but easily keeps up with cars. I top out at
> just over 60mph, but could change that if I went to a 72V controller.
> Unless you need drag racing type accelaration and a very high top end I
> wouldn't bother with a transmission. Just pick an appropriate
> motor/controller combo and select a decent gear ratio and you'll be fine.
> You will already have a hard time finding space for enough batteries to
get
> decent range.
>
> >From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Motorcycle transmissions
> >Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:16:39 -0700
> >
> >Not sure if I asked the list before. I'm planning to do an EV
motorcycle,
> >and I'm looking for an appropriate transmission.
> >
> >Most motorcycle transmissions are integrated with the engine, with shared
> >engine oil and a wet clutch. Naturally, with an electric motor this
isn't
> >really an option, as you'd have to separate the transmission from the
> >motor, which seems needlessly difficult.
> >
--- End Message ---
