EV Digest 3888
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: other side of the coin - Re: Hydrogen fuel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Cluthless or not
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery Box Gauge
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Easy 300VDC
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 3rd clutch option
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) OT: Missing Explosives
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) borohydride FC
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) ProEV's Electric Imp next race is November 13-14
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ProEV's Imp on track!
by "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: OT: Missing Explosives
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Looking for some advice.... (for Rich Rudman)
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Battery Strings
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Dump charging profiles
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: OT: Missing Explosives
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Help! Fave brands/combin. of vac. pumps/switches?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Help! Fave brands/combin. of vac. pumps/switches?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Clutchless
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery Box Gauge
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery Box Gauge
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Fw: Fiat 500 - Newsletter
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Curtis KSI Terminal
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Motorcycle Range, speed, Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Curtis KSI Terminal
by "Rob Morden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Battery Box Gauge
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) lose wire/part 2
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: Battery Box Gauge
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
Victor..
My high amp customer... Is NOT lead Acid.
He wants more that I can bring him.
He is NOT you. Or most of my other customers.
The charger WILL be flexable... I could charge your Ev at 8 amps...
The charger will need no further hardware efforts to cover just about any
voltage and charge curves.
That's what I Promised my Client...
Rich,
Perfect, I'd have no problem with that charger.
I also have no problem with smaller on-boad one,
so perhaps won't have a need to use a large one ever.
But, as you say, others will, since it is universal
charger.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Indy cars have a throttle blip built into the shifting paddles, The
sequential tranny with dog clutches make it workable
A sequential tranny would be awsome if the vehicle has regen :-)
Still QM or Tilton will probably be my dream set-up whats another $750
-$1,000 :-)
http://www.performancebodies.com/2002%20catalog/clutches/clutch.html#sonic
http://www.performancebodies.com/2002%20catalog/clutches/clutch.html
only 9 lbs and 750 LB-feet of torque
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use 3.2mm (1/8 ") thick aluminum for both boxes, no problem at all.
The batteries are not lead acid though.
Same for ultracaps box.
Victor
Roland Wiench wrote:
If it aluminum, than 1/4 inch thick. It was than coated about 1/8 thick acid
proof material that is similar to truck bed liners.
It was strong enough, so the battery container could be removed with
batteries with a fork lift, or jacks and dollys.
This box was bolted to the frame with 3 welded on 4 inch aluminum box beams
that is fasten with 12 1/2 inch grade 8 bolts. The minute movements of the
frame did not effect the box.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 9:53 PM
Subject: Battery Box Gauge
For those who have built sheet metal or aluminum battery boxes, what gauge
metal did you use? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rectify 240V mains?
Use iso trhnsformer just in case. Also autotransformer
on the input side will allow adjust the voltage to the one
you want. Make sure filter caps have margin in terms of
amx voltage.
What are you testing?
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
For testing the various components **before** they are installed into the
car, I am wanting to have a 300VDC 2kw power supply. Any suggestions for
how I can do this **cheaply**?
What comes to mind are:
- a bunch more test batteries
- a voltage double circuit of some sort
thanks
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone thought about sprint car clutches? I remember a cone type
advertised in circle track magazine.
Mike G.
Jeff Shanab wrote:
Maybe we shouldn't be thinking clutch or not and shift to EVclutch or
ICE clutch.
ICE are big with lots of mass cause it helps the ICE be more like an
electric motor.
EV needs light, small dia, high torque.
Are there any clutches on lightweight flywheels, like the tilton
racing clutch, that we can retrofit.
Feroomagnetic clutches? eletromagnetic industrial clutches?
how about a band clutch and a planatery gear set, we could then put a
10K rpm AC on a stock tranny :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No need to invent the wheel - this is done and I saw the charging
stations in
Europe implementing it. Actually, the charger *has* to be dumb - it is only
a remote controlled power stage. A car has charge controller in its
battery pack,
containing only one profile for that battery. The charge controller is
being part of
BMS controller too. Far easier than for thousands (hopefully) public
chargers
holding info about potential tens of thousands of customers.
This is how it is being set up in my car now - a charge controller
continuously
monitors the battery and BMS and tells the power stage how to adjust its
output
to meet the requirements.
Critical point is my controller continuously (about every 200 ms) tell
the charger what
to output, not uploading entire profile at once and press "start button"
leaving the rest
up to the charger. Loose updating signal for more than 2 periods (400
ms) and power
stage shuts off.
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
Lightning Ryan wrote:
So, how could users who the charger doesn't know already quickly
program their particular charge profile needs?
I think the only practical way to make a public charger work with all
types of batteries is to require that the battery pack include some sort
of "smart" control logic to identify what it is. The charger doesn't
depend on the user to set some control or enter some code; the charger
ASKS the battery pack what voltage and current it wants, and proceeds
accordingly.
The techies will want a PC in every battery pack, with a web interface
and WiFi port, and establish some elaborate protocol written in Java so
you can log onto your EV from your office to see how it's charging.
The luddites will just put a couple resistors on a little connector,
whose values define the current and voltage. When the pack reaches
"full", a relay or something in the EV will open these resistors to tell
the charge it wants "zero" current or volts.
Either way, it works. You can't have the wrong codes or a careless user
destroying a battery pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
given all the hoorah over the missing explosives in Iraq, here's a way to
put it in perspective, at least from my line of work.
360 tons might be hard to visualize.
360 tons equals 720,0000 lbs in weight.
Maximum weight for a fully loaded Class 8 semi tractor/trailer rig is 80,000
lbs.
Allowing all 80,000 lbs as cargo, that's 9 fully loaded semi's worth of high
explosive.
If you subtract vehicle weight from that total, say 15,000 lbs, we're
talking on the order of 11 to 12 semi trailer loads.
That's a lot of bang in anyone's book.
that's what all the uproar is about.
Latest word is that the Army believes they had someone go in and move the
stuff, they just can't remember who or where to. After 20 years in the
military, the possibility that they just simply lost track of the stuff is
not only highly plausible, hell, I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck
that's what actually happened. Someone just forgot to file the paperwork
letting the chain of command know where the heck they parked this stuff.
Even the Navy has pulled some good ones. In 1980 the carrier Enterprise was
in overhaul at Puget Sound. A shipyard worker noticed that there was a solid
bulkhead in one spot where a watertight door should have been, and the plans
indicated that there should be a compartment behind it. When they cut thru
the bulkhead, they found a completely furnished machine shop that no one had
known existed for over 20 years. when they built the ship, someone just
forgot to install the bloody door.
Just hope it doesn't take the Army as long to figure out what happened with
this mess.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ok, here's a new potential power source - hopefully not too OT
a borohydride FC
given the info below, at the current $50/kilo cost of borohydride, 240wh (the
capacity of my scooter's batts) would cost around $5.60 (not including the
initial FC purchase cost of $360) - not at all competative with
socket-electricity... but if the price drops to $1/kilo, then the cost becomes
$0.112 for 240wh, which is only about one order of magnatude more than
socket-electricity... not economical, but in the range where one can start making
arguments about the convenience of solid fuel, etc...
(caveat: my math may be off, as I'm whacked on caffine right now)
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1211&e=10&u=/pcworld/20041028/tc_pcworld/118376&sid=95612664
direct borohydride fuel cell [...] available in the first few months of 2006, and
will cost around $90
[...]measure 80 millimeters by 84.6 millimeters by about 3 millimeters, and will
be able to produce 20 watts of power[...]
The chemical typically costs about $50 per kilogram, and at this price, a
cartridge of it will cost about $1.40 [...] A cartridge...will provide three
hours to four hours of power [...] several U.S. and European chemical companies
and they are eager to sign up to mass produce sodium borohydride. In about five
years, we could see the price dropping to $1 per kilo ...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Though we have made major progress on the BMS system in the Electric Imp,
the system is still too unreliable to take it out on a race track.
To show that we have not been totally slacking, we have done some updating
of the website. There are three new pages under Electric Imp Project/ Work
History. These cover assembling the Kokam cells, building cables and
installing the cells in the car.
We will be working hard to make the Palm Beach Road Racing Classic, November
13 -14. A group of vintage racecars will be running the same weekend, so it
should be a fun.
Hope to see EVers there.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Go to www.ProEv.com . Then the Electric Imp Project / Work History. June 13,
June 19 and June 22 shows how the batteries are connected and installed.
Hope this helps.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Rassweiler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: ProEV's Imp on track!
Mark,
I started to type a short reply, but it required pictures. I will post
them on the website later this week. When they are up, I will email you.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 12:32 AM
Subject: RE: ProEV's Imp on track!
Hi Cliff,
Can you tell us a bit more about how the Kokam cells are mounted and
connected together?
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My favorite flavor of ice cream is Blackberry.
Neither this information nor the information about missing explosives in
the middle east have ANYTHING to do with the topics here.
PLEASE stay on topic. Posting "OT" in the subject line does NOT make off
topic posting acceptable.
This list goes out all over the planet and is quite busy enough with all
the on topic data that flows through it. Please don't sully this
excellent resource with such off topic posts.
They are offensive and inappropriate.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First
Goldie has really terrible traction!! The only reason she sticks is I
pull the hammer way back to get the tires to regrip. Once into 3rd the tires
can take full throttle form the old Raptor and older
Yts.
Well, you do a good job of feathering the juice then! That's part of dialing
in a car IMHO.
I am not sure putting a couple of grand into the old rusting chassis is the
best use of my funds.
I agree. That's from LOTS of experience with my own variety of rusted-out
Mad Max mobiles when I lived in OH. Get a good solid car. AZ is full of
decent donors that usually have bad interiors and paint, but little or no
rust, none being the rule.
Though bagging 100 in the quarter in Old Goldie, would be a nifty stunt.
Doing it with a single motor, and single controller would really wake up the
Nedra, "More is always better" Boys.
That would be a really neat acheivement. It's good to have a goal. I
remember the old ICE adage of; There's no replacement for DISplacement. I
think that the newer, lighter cars, like the FWD Old's of a few years ago
proved that we've come a long way. Still about 2/3 of the weight of the old
442's, about half the displacement and faster in the quarter mile than the
original.
Don't forget to have fun. Every time I set out to get revenge or prove
something to others', I come home with my hip pockets spanked. It's all in
the fun of doing stuff. If you approach it from that perspective, everybody
seems to go home happy.
I have used the 15 min epoxy for gluing magnets into BLDC rotors. Get the
slower curing stuff that has atleast a 200F working temp. The slower to cure
stuff has a higher PSI strength rating.
Okay, thanks. I looked at ACE hardware yesterday, but nothing had a temp
rating except for the JB Weld Quick, and it didn't have a PSI rating. I'll
keep looking. There's goota'be something out there.
I gotta grab the Movie. Anybody got it on CD or DVD yet??
I may have been missing that thread.
BoB???
If all else fails, I'll burn you a copy of my VHS, if that would suffice for
meeting your standards of quality and convenience. Let me know.
Good luck with Goldie. Hope you can get a new, lightweight pack to help get
physics biased in the direction of success Rich.
Thanks and regards,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> (+) B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B (-)
> | | | | | | | | | |
> B B B B B B B B B B
You'll probably get some better answers than mine...
I think there was one minor consideration regarding
which of the first and last posts you use for power.
By connecting to the opposite sides of the string(s)
more ballanced current draw extends their life.
These two both allow you to use one regulator per pair.
+==+B-===+B-===+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-===+B-===+B-
| | | | | || || || || || | | | | |
+B-===+B-===+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-===+B-===+B-==-
Or ( This is nearly identical, less redudnant wires )
+==+B-===+B-===+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-===+B-===+B-
| | | | | | | | | | |
+B-===+B-===+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-===+B-===+B-==-
This next way may be easier to wire, but would require
twice the regulators and the strings would probably
have a greater change of going out of ballance.
In your diagram String1 would do most of the
work, while String2 does less, because there
is more resistance added by the + and the -
cables that connect String2 to String1.
(+) B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B (-) String 1
| |
B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B String 2
But here, String1 has less wire on the + and more on the -
ballanced by String2 with less wire on - and more on the +
+==+B-===+B-===+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-===+B-===+B-
| |
+B-===+B-===+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-+B-===+B-===+B-==-
I hope this is making some sense, as I'm not entirely sure
that I'm explaining it correctly, but I think your original
setup is the best with one minor change of moving the main
cable at one end of the string(s) to the other side. Like so:
> (+) B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B
> | | | | | | | | | |
> B B B B B B B B B B (-)
L8r
Ryan
ps. Even so It seems like a very minor tweek to me.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That sounds even better...
How cheap/simple can the charge controller be?
Does the PFC do this? We know it does profiles...
It would have to be "attractive" to EVery users.
As simple as a single overvoltage/regulator control.
Up to a Regulator add on interface.
All the way to a highly intigrated BMS.
L8r
Ryan
PS. Talk about versitility, Dumb, Profiled, Remote controlled, ...
AC-DC, DC-DC, Up or Down, Wow... ( Can't wait till I need one! )
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
No need to invent the wheel - this is done and I saw the charging
stations in
Europe implementing it. Actually, the charger *has* to be dumb - it is only
a remote controlled power stage. A car has charge controller in its
battery pack,
containing only one profile for that battery. The charge controller is
being part of
BMS controller too. Far easier than for thousands (hopefully) public
chargers
holding info about potential tens of thousands of customers.
This is how it is being set up in my car now - a charge controller
continuously
monitors the battery and BMS and tells the power stage how to adjust its
output
to meet the requirements.
Critical point is my controller continuously (about every 200 ms) tell
the charger what
to output, not uploading entire profile at once and press "start button"
leaving the rest
up to the charger. Loose updating signal for more than 2 periods (400
ms) and power
stage shuts off.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Passive RF ID Tags. Apporximatly $1.00. Can be read from some distance
Why would you *want* to read them from a distance? How would you know
you aren't reading the charge profile from the car *next* to yours?
You already have wires from the charger to the car. It makes sense to
use the same cable to make the data connection.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AMEN
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Trough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Missing Explosives
> My favorite flavor of ice cream is Blackberry.
>
> Neither this information nor the information about missing explosives in
> the middle east have ANYTHING to do with the topics here.
>
> PLEASE stay on topic. Posting "OT" in the subject line does NOT make off
> topic posting acceptable.
>
> This list goes out all over the planet and is quite busy enough with all
> the on topic data that flows through it. Please don't sully this
> excellent resource with such off topic posts.
>
> They are offensive and inappropriate.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX - 801-749-7807
> message - 866-872-8901
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You may remember on my last post that I had a pump
turning on every brake depression. I have a Thomas,
which is noisy, and now have found out that the switch
which came with it, cuts in at 20. That gives me just
2" Hg of wiggle room between actuations. No wonder!
So I swapped out the one for one from EV parts. No
matter how I seem to set it, it has the same issues.
Now to top it off, since I've added a relay, I get
chattering (a half-cycle on the pump, then it switches
off, then on for a half-cycle in 10 seconds or so).
The Rabbit used another manufacturer. I swear, I
must've gotten 4 actuations or so.
The point is, I put $300 or so in for the Thomas
setup, $25 in for a different switch. $300 in for
what I thought might be a faulty brake booster. Now
I'm about to spend $210 for a new vac. pump, and $95
for a square D switch.
What are you using. Answer please only if satisfied
with noise levels, and # of actuations.
Thanks _so_ much! I _REALLY_ want to get this rig
back on the freakin' ROAD!!!
Sign me,
Grinless in So. OR.
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just get a BRUSA pump ($309 as of today) which includes contactless
switch too. Light, quiet and reliable; you could of gotten it in a first
place...
Yes, I am satisfied about noise level. I can only hear it when not in
motion.
Yes, I' am satisfied with amount of actuations - one for every two
depressions (no tank) but I don't really know since can't heat it anyway.
Thus don't really care.
Yes, you might think I'm biased, but I'm replying because it is indeed
good product and I'm happy customer myself, not because I sell it.
Well, all I can suggest is just ask others on the list who use it.
Victor
Bob Bath wrote:
You may remember on my last post that I had a pump
turning on every brake depression. I have a Thomas,
which is noisy, and now have found out that the switch
which came with it, cuts in at 20. That gives me just
2" Hg of wiggle room between actuations. No wonder!
So I swapped out the one for one from EV parts. No
matter how I seem to set it, it has the same issues.
Now to top it off, since I've added a relay, I get
chattering (a half-cycle on the pump, then it switches
off, then on for a half-cycle in 10 seconds or so).
The Rabbit used another manufacturer. I swear, I
must've gotten 4 actuations or so.
The point is, I put $300 or so in for the Thomas
setup, $25 in for a different switch. $300 in for
what I thought might be a faulty brake booster. Now
I'm about to spend $210 for a new vac. pump, and $95
for a square D switch.
What are you using. Answer please only if satisfied
with noise levels, and # of actuations.
Thanks _so_ much! I _REALLY_ want to get this rig
back on the freakin' ROAD!!!
Sign me,
Grinless in So. OR.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
That sounds even better...
How cheap/simple can the charge controller be?
Does the PFC do this? We know it does profiles...
PFC does more than this. If Rich would sell just power stages with separate
voltage and current limit control inputs (nothing else) that would be it.
I know, but preferrably isolated.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Since the 1st part of my daily commute is 5.5 miles downhill, regen
> wouldn't do me much good.
Understood -- there's no room in the batteries to put the captured
energy.
> But I would indeed like to use motor braking to save wear and
> tear on the brakes. Can you show a quick diagram of how this
> braking resistor would be connected in a DC motor/Curtis
> controller setup, and a possibly what rating you would recommend
> for the resistor?
There are several ways to do this.
Plug braking
------------
Curtis controllers usually have "plug braking". Their manual shows how
to wire it up. Basically, you have a reversing contactor reverse the
field, and a diode that shorts out the armature. Now, when the
controller applies current to the motor, it causes the armature to act
as a generator. The energy is shorted by the internal diodes on A2.
Unfortunately, these diodes are small (like half the size of the normal
freewheel diodes), so the braking current is necessarily small to keep
from frying them. This form of plug braking adds a little bit of drag,
like engine braking on an ICE.
Dynamic braking
---------------
This is when you have a big resistor to burn up the braking energy as
heat. The simplest scheme is to add a contactor and resistor in series,
right across the motor armature. When you want motor braking, let up the
throttle (controller fully off) and close the braking contactor.
Residual magnetism in the field provides a weak field, to generate a
small armature voltage (typically a few volts or less). The resistor
converts this to heat, giving you a modest amounto of braking torque.
A more complicated scheme is to use the controller to power just the
field, and connect the armature to a much larger braking resistor.
Higher field currents (controlled by the controller) can produce large
amounts of braking force. However, the normal ADC series motors many EVs
use are not well suited to high braking currents; the brushes will arc
much worse than at the same current/voltage during motoring operation.
I don't know if you can get enough braking force from your motor without
undue brush arcing. It's one of those things you just have to experiment
with.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
> How cheap/simple can the charge controller be?
My thought is that it should be a simple protocol. The Mentzer charger
used with the Badicheq system had such a system. The charger was
basically just a current source that could deliver up to 168vdc at 0-12
amps. The current it actually delivered was controlled by a PWM signal
from the EV's BMS. The PWM signal was 2 KHz, 20%-80% to indicate
0-12amps.
Another example is the Vicor Batmod module. A single module has an
isolated filtered DC output, 5-16.5vdc and 0-14.5a. The max voltage
limit and max current limit are set with resistors on two pins, VTRIM
and ITRIM. Any number of modules can be slaved together, to form
arbitrarily high power chargers.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric Poulsen wrote:
> Any recommendations for battery boxes that might be exposed to rain or
> splashes?
All of the ones I described are "out in the weather", and subjected to
rain, snow, mud, dust, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did the lids have an overlap lid, like a shoebox? Was there a gasket?
Did you use those snap-down buckles (I dunno what they're called) to
hold the tops on? How did you handle weatherproofing where the cables
entered / exited?
Lee Hart wrote:
Eric Poulsen wrote:
Any recommendations for battery boxes that might be exposed to rain or
splashes?
All of the ones I described are "out in the weather", and subjected to
rain, snow, mud, dust, etc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe this would come in handy for a three wheeler or Marko. Lawrence
Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: 500 Mania
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 9:23 AM
Subject: Fiat 500 - Newsletter
500 Mania
di Fassiotti Ivano
V. Mad. della Vittoria, 219
66100 Chieti
P.Iva:01951280690
Tel.Fax: 0871-560992
WWW.500MANIA.IT
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Complete 5 speed transmission for Fiat 500 and 126.
On request: short or long ratio.
Price: 1500,00 Euro - Plus shipping costs.
Contact us for more details.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cambio completo a 5 marce per Fiat 500 e 126.
A richiesta con rapporti corti o lunghi.
Prezzo: 1500 Euro + spese di trasporto.
Contattateci per maggiori informazioni.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The diagrams in the Curtis manual for the 1231C controller shows the KSI
connected to the full traction pack voltage via a relay. But the manual's
text mentions that anything higher than 8V will activate the KSI. So can it
just be hooked up to the car's 12V battery (via the keyswitch) instead,
doing away with the need to purchase a separate relay? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mike and All,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I agree with Damon,
As do I. Unless you have big hills, very heavy
loads, direct drive is a lighter, better way to go.
The secret is a motor that turns 5-6,000 rpms so
that you are always in first gear.
As most motorcycle wheels turn about 700-1,000rpm
you can use a 5-7 to 1 gear ratio giving plenty of
torque, tractive effort and still get good top speed.
You can do this by getting a 36vdc, golf cart or
other low voltage motor and running it at 72vdc batt
pack or field weakening on a higher voltage motor to
increase the motors rpm.
I also agree with Lawerance in that the way to
get range, top speed in a motorcycle is a good fairing
as almost all the drag is aero.
You don't need a fully enclosed body though would
be nice, just a good fairing that is slightly taller,
wider than your body, motorcycle coming back to just
past the handlebars.
It would allow 2x or more the range, higher top
speed for those freeway trips at a much lower costs
than anything else you could do like more power,
li-ions!!!
The combo of BB6600 ni-cads and a fairing would
really make a good, long range cycle with plenty of
power. For the same weight about 2X the Orbital's or
other AGM's range.
Also the fairing would add about 10mph to a
cycle's 1/4 mile top finishing speed and about 1/2 sec
or more from the time slip.
The answer isn't more power, batts, it's
lowering the drag!
HTH's,
jerry dycus
.
> Run the math on how much efficiency (and torque) the
> transmission will get
> you vs. using a larger motor and more batteries.
>
> I found that the Honda Goldwing transmission and
> engine massed 250 pounds
> (110 kg), where the electric motor(5 hp) weighed
> only 50 pounds (23 kg).
> If I guestimate 1/2 of that was transmission weight,
> then it was worth over
> 1 kilowatt-hour of batteries.
> (The math:
> I'm using Hawker Genesis, lead-acid,
> 12 volt, 26 Amp-hour, 26 pounds (10 kg).
> 5 of these is 1384 kwh, at 20 hour rate.
> 1110 kwh at 30 min, 940 kwh at 15 min)
> It also opened up enough space to cleanly mount a
> total of 10 batteries
> instead of my originally planned 6.
>
> I should have gone with a larger motor, since the
> final drive ratio of 3.6:1
> is a bit sluggish to start off.
>
> If you've got a similar gas powered bike, take it
> out on some flat open
> space and do a coast-down test to get some numbers
> of the actual power
> requirements at various speeds.
> You can look at the results of my coast down test of
> a Honda Goldwing at:
> http://www.generalist.org/madmike/coastdown.html
>
> it only shows 10 runs, but the numbers matched up
> with the mathematical
> predictions, within my measurement error range.
>
> I'd love to see the same tests done by other people
> on other bikes.
>
> Anyone with a running electric motorcycle have any
> hard power vs. speed
> measurements?
>
> Mike Shipway
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: damon henry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 06:28 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: Motorcycle transmissions
> >
> > Are you sure you want a transmission. I am
> running a 48V 400 amp Alltrax
> > controller, an ADC 6.7 inch motor and a single 14
> to 41 gear ratio. It's
> > not quick for a motorcycle, but easily keeps up
> with cars. I top out at
> > just over 60mph, but could change that if I went
> to a 72V controller.
> > Unless you need drag racing type accelaration and
> a very high top end I
> > wouldn't bother with a transmission. Just pick an
> appropriate
> > motor/controller combo and select a decent gear
> ratio and you'll be fine.
> > You will already have a hard time finding space
> for enough batteries to
> get
> > decent range.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
That will work if the traction pack -ve is connected to the chassis ground
BUT that is a really dangerous thing to do with traction packs of the kind
of voltage you are probably using with the 1231c. It also makes it
virtually impossible to charge with a GFCI I understand. I haven't actually
checked the circuits but if the controller has an internal connection
between pack -ve and chassis I will be really disturbed.
My car when I bought it had this arrangement and merely the thought of being
able to lean on the car body and make myself the resistor in an 100V DC
circuit with unlimited (for all intents and purposes) amperage terrifies me.
Rob Morden
Aurora IL
'87 Plymouth Horizon, 96V, T105s, 1231c and a 9" ADC
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 1:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Curtis KSI Terminal
The diagrams in the Curtis manual for the 1231C controller shows the KSI
connected to the full traction pack voltage via a relay. But the manual's
text mentions that anything higher than 8V will activate the KSI. So can it
just be hooked up to the car's 12V battery (via the keyswitch) instead,
doing away with the need to purchase a separate relay? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You should build a heavy enough battery box out of metal or very thick
fiberglass, if fasten directly to the frame of a vehicle.
If the box is inside the vehicle, you can get by with 1/4 inch plastic or
fiberglass.
My battery boxes are a double container type. The first outside container,
is the sheet metal enclosure which is part of the EV structure.
In case of lot of open areas, I used 1/8 neoprene rubber skirting around the
suspension components to prevent splase up.
The inside box which is about 4 inchs away from the other box, is made out
of 1/4 inch expoxy coated fiberglass.
I went to a fiberglass company and had them made up fiberglass sheets in 1/4
inch by 4 feet by 8 feet dimensions. I assemble them by cutting them to
size and reinforceing the corners on the outside with fiberglass 1/4 angle
pieces they also made up.
The top edge of the boxes also had a 1/4 inch by 2 by 2 inch angle attach to
it, to perform a 2 inch lip that goes outward from the edge.
The top covers on the inside box, is a 1/4 inch fiberglass sheet that is
hinge. It seals to the box lip by a double seal 4 rib type close foam
rubber strip .
The inside cover overlaps this edge about a inch, leaving about 1 inch of
this lip expose.
>From this 1 inch expose lip on the battery box, there is another cover with
rubber seals that is fasten down on the inside lip to the out side lip of
the out side box.
There is a 4 inch gutter space between the inside box and out side box or
enclosure of the EV. This space is used for cable and wire channels and
exhaust and intake air flexible 1/4 inch PVC hoses.
The entry holes in these boxes have glue in PVC plumbing type fittings that
are like chase nipples to smooth out these entries.
After the cables go through these entries, I used 3-M windsheld putty which
I pack around the cables at these entries. This comes in 1/8 inch strips
which are very sticky. I find its better than electrical duct putty which
is not as sticky.
Then there is another top cover that covers the whole top unit. This top
cover is built just like a trunk of a car. There is a verticle 20 gage
steel edge that has trunk type weather stripping that goes over this edge.
This top covers also hinges. It could be the whole bed of a pickup box,
that hinges and performs this top second weather seal.
My top cover is a hatch cover over the bed of the pickup box.
In your search engine, see:
Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro I
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Box Gauge
> Did the lids have an overlap lid, like a shoebox? Was there a gasket?
> Did you use those snap-down buckles (I dunno what they're called) to
> hold the tops on? How did you handle weatherproofing where the cables
> entered / exited?
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> >Eric Poulsen wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Any recommendations for battery boxes that might be exposed to rain or
> >>splashes?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >All of the ones I described are "out in the weather", and subjected to
> >rain, snow, mud, dust, etc.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
, I didn't have much time but was thinking about at least do somthing
> on it ,so I though I'd mount the hair ball , while moving things around .
> the 2 small 18 gage wires that go from each side of the battery +
contactor
> which the old dcp also used
Lucky for me the controller wasn't hurt. but I didn't find this out till the
end of the day. The car has been sitting of a while and with the hurricanes
or for what ever reason , the motor would not spin. I'll skip the part where
I got everything hooked up and it didn't go , then put the controller in
my work truck and it did. Yes there was a few low points but when it ran in
the work truck I was feeling a lot better, put evething back in the Porsche
and nothing , so at that point I hook a 12 v battery up to the motor ( after
unhooking the controller) and the motor doesn't spin , a very small spark
was made when I connect the wire . I take off the shield and turn the motor
a little to see if something was stuck and where the brushes were sitting
looks different the rest of the com like a dark gum built up on it. 12v now
spins the motor .... well that's the first time for me on that problem , .
now to re a wake these excide orbitals.
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, very nice, clean job! Do those switches actually do something or
largely for show? I like the idea of individual gauges and aircraft style
indicator lights for this vintage of a car. Do you have the indicator
lights with custom text (e.g. "Controller Temp" or "Accessory Battery Low")?
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: October 30, 2004 6:18 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Battery Box Gauge
You should build a heavy enough battery box out of metal or very thick
fiberglass, if fasten directly to the frame of a vehicle.
If the box is inside the vehicle, you can get by with 1/4 inch plastic or
fiberglass.
My battery boxes are a double container type. The first outside container,
is the sheet metal enclosure which is part of the EV structure.
In case of lot of open areas, I used 1/8 neoprene rubber skirting around the
suspension components to prevent splase up.
The inside box which is about 4 inchs away from the other box, is made out
of 1/4 inch expoxy coated fiberglass.
I went to a fiberglass company and had them made up fiberglass sheets in 1/4
inch by 4 feet by 8 feet dimensions. I assemble them by cutting them to
size and reinforceing the corners on the outside with fiberglass 1/4 angle
pieces they also made up.
The top edge of the boxes also had a 1/4 inch by 2 by 2 inch angle attach to
it, to perform a 2 inch lip that goes outward from the edge.
The top covers on the inside box, is a 1/4 inch fiberglass sheet that is
hinge. It seals to the box lip by a double seal 4 rib type close foam
rubber strip .
The inside cover overlaps this edge about a inch, leaving about 1 inch of
this lip expose.
>From this 1 inch expose lip on the battery box, there is another cover
>with
rubber seals that is fasten down on the inside lip to the out side lip of
the out side box.
There is a 4 inch gutter space between the inside box and out side box or
enclosure of the EV. This space is used for cable and wire channels and
exhaust and intake air flexible 1/4 inch PVC hoses.
The entry holes in these boxes have glue in PVC plumbing type fittings that
are like chase nipples to smooth out these entries.
After the cables go through these entries, I used 3-M windsheld putty which
I pack around the cables at these entries. This comes in 1/8 inch strips
which are very sticky. I find its better than electrical duct putty which
is not as sticky.
Then there is another top cover that covers the whole top unit. This top
cover is built just like a trunk of a car. There is a verticle 20 gage
steel edge that has trunk type weather stripping that goes over this edge.
This top covers also hinges. It could be the whole bed of a pickup box,
that hinges and performs this top second weather seal.
My top cover is a hatch cover over the bed of the pickup box.
In your search engine, see:
Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro I
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Box Gauge
> Did the lids have an overlap lid, like a shoebox? Was there a gasket?
> Did you use those snap-down buckles (I dunno what they're called) to
> hold the tops on? How did you handle weatherproofing where the cables
> entered / exited?
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
> >Eric Poulsen wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Any recommendations for battery boxes that might be exposed to rain or
> >>splashes?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >All of the ones I described are "out in the weather", and subjected to
> >rain, snow, mud, dust, etc.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
