EV Digest 3890
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Stm 180 nicad charging
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: ETEK Motor Info
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motorcycle Range, speed, Re: Motorcycle transmissions
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Battery Desulficators
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: FCEV are EV's too Escapes by Ford, somewhat.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Partisan political posts: PLEASE READ (list policy)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Running clutchless?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Seasons Greetings; it's Witchcraft!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Seasons Greetings; it's Witchcraft!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: ETEK Motor Info
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: ETEK Motor Info
by "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Small EV motors, Re: ETEK Motor Info
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Small EV motors, Re: ETEK Motor Info
by "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Battery Desulficators
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Power Steering Pump Connections - confirmation
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Power Steering Pump Connections - confirmation
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Small EV motors, Re: ETEK Motor Info
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) EV for sale $1000 or less in NH (rough!)
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Small EV motors, Re: ETEK Motor Info
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I'm charging the SAFT STM 100 MRE with a PFC-20.
Although not ideal, it seems to be doing an adequate job with a
little manual help from me.
I set the time-out on the longest time setting. It is something
like an hour. I set the trigger voltage to 192 volts (for my 144 volt
pack). This results in about 5 a-hrs of overcharge. Since my commute uses
about 50 A-hrs, this is very close to the mark, but not quite there. On
each weekend, I turn the voltage up three turns, set the current to about 7
amps, and give the pack about 15 a-hrs of overcharge. This seems to make
them happy. I then turn the voltage pot down exactly three turns (I have a
screwdriver with a mark on it) and set the charger current back to 12 amps
(so I don't trip the 20 amp breaker on my 120 volt plug-in at work.)
If you don't give the recommended "overcharge" on each cycle, the
batteries won't deliver 100% of their capacity. They will deliver about
90%. When I give them their "equalize" charge on the weekend, they have
more capacity the next discharge cycle, but not the one after that.
If I lightly discharge after an equalize charge, The batteries go
to the trigger voltage before the a-hrs are returned. The E-meter shows -10
amp-hrs (or a touch more) at the end of the "normal" charge cycle.
I'm working on an embedded system to read the E-meter and command
the charger, but I am only about 1/2 way done. It has been gathering a bit
of dust lately, truth be told.
At 06:33 PM 10/30/2004, you wrote:
Hi Folks,
Does anyone have any experience with the PFC XX series chargers to
charge various size packs of Saft stm180 nicads in 192 and up to 300 volt
configurations.
Issues I am wondering about are the commissioning charge of almost 450 volts
for a 300 volt pack, and settings for the typical 10% over charge. As I
will be
getting quite a few of these 6 volt blocks and since they are the size of
typical golf cart
batteries I plan to upgrade a couple of my EVs.
Bill Brinsmead, Reno Nv.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
> I have had two failures in ten years.
> Both times I fixed it with JBWeld.
> Neither repair has failed.
> I think it worked because I did a good prep job before using the JBWeld.
Hi Joe,
Did you use the regular JB Weld, or the JB Weld ~Quick~. Would you elaborate
on what you did to prep?
Does it matter what polarity the magnets are put it at? I had a plan to
check them with a compass needle so that all the North edges face the same
direction. Good plan, or does it matter?
The magnets were removed and fiddled around with and then placed back
inside the case with no thought as to what polarity issues might be lurking
down the road. Many of the remaining magnets look as if they don't have
enough adhesive to properly hold them in place. One person recomended
removing the other magnets as well and re-glueing all of them at once. My
instinct here is one of "don't fix it if it isn't broken", but if I'm
turning the motor and magnets start dropping from heat or whatever, I may
have bigger problems than some chipped edges from manually removing on my
terms while re-glueing the other three.
Thanks,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I seen someone was looking for an epoxy to do glue permanent magnets back
> into the barrel. All I can say is good freaking luck. My self and over 50
> other rebuild shops have tried this, and with epoxys design for this vary
> task. I do not know of one person that has yet to be successful.
> I think, do not know for sure, that when the motors were originally
> constructed, the magnets were not charged until after they were installed.
> But for whatever reason, we have never seen anything work at reinstalling
> them. Thousands of PMGR starter barrels are thrown each day because there
is
> no way of fixing/repairing/rebuilding them.
> What we do with the motors that are too expensive to throw away, is simply
> return them to the original manufacturer for the repair. If they say they
> won't, contact me and I will try and find a large enough shop that can
make
> the repair. I.e. install a new magnet and charge it.
> Raymond
Hi Raynond,
Perhaps the issue is more to do with the glue medium than anything else. The
stuff my magnets are held in with looks like a yellowish goo resembling
common rubber cement. Underneath the three that came loose, it's obvious
that there simply wasn't enough ~goo~ installed.
This is a used motor I acquired from a person on the EVDL for a nice price
and it's perfect for the intended application....other than the magnets
coming loose. There's no data on the motor, no manufacturers I.D, nothing,
not even specs. I wouldn't know who to send it to, nevermind the fact that
it is likely way out of warranty. I have essentially no money in this motor,
so if $5.00 worth of JB Weld will hold it together for a while, I'm in
there!!
I appreciate your input and will pass along your contact info to someone who
needs a field pressed out of a series motor and pressed back into another
barrel. The things we do for fun and to save a couple pounds is sometimes
astounding, huh?
Thanks and kind regards,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Joseph H. Strubhar wrote;
> There is a better product in my opinion - I think it is called Supermend
and
> is sold at BiMart.
Hi Joseph,
BiMart is a new one to me. Is Supermend made by Duro, Loc-tite or some other
company??
We used it for magnets in a Tecumseh electric start
> engine; the key to getting it to stay was good prep and lots of pressure
on
> the part while it cured.
>
Can you elaborate on exactly what you did to prep yours? And how does one
apply lots of pressure on curved ferrite magnets without breaking them? Can
you define how much lots is as well please?
Thanks and regards,
Rick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 23:40:07 -0700, "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Did you use the regular JB Weld, or the JB Weld ~Quick~. Would you elaborate
>on what you did to prep?
I've never had any problem gluing field magnets either. Most any high
strength slow cure epoxy will work. I use one made by Dexter.
My surface prep consists of very thorough degreasing and cleaning of the
frame and magnets and roughing of the frame surface with an engraving
tool. I just let the point of the tool bounce off the metal.
My trick for holding the magnets in place is to push a small inner tube
such as that for a wheelbarrow tire into the frame and then inflating with
10-15 psi, whatever pressure the tube will withstand without blowing out
the ends. This generates several hundred pounds of pressure mashing the
magnets against the frame.
If the motor is to be used in high temperature service, Contronics
http://cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ (among others) makes high temperature epoxy
that is VERY strong.
>
>Does it matter what polarity the magnets are put it at? I had a plan to
>check them with a compass needle so that all the North edges face the same
>direction. Good plan, or does it matter?
Yes, orientation matters. Best way to get it right is to check the
polarity of each magnet before it is removed. It will normally be stuck
to the armature but can be checked before forcing them apart.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Miles and All,
It probably takes less than that to burn them
up.
I toasted my commutator in less than 1 second
on 36 vdc and through a resistor starting on a small
rise.
I'd find it hard to believe I put over 500
amps thru the 3rd speed GC resistor used.
I went back to my Citi-car motor after
rebuilding it's old brush, brush holder was replaced
and seated well and no problens since.
It had a problem I believe was the leads to
the brushes were corroded from our moist Fla air over
35 yrs.
If you run 72vdc on the E-tek for more than a
few seconds on it the current it will pull trying to
get to 6,000 rpm would be quite high. And it's rpm
rating is only 4,000 rpm.
Now by setting the controller so that the
motor only sees 50-55vdc from a 72vdc pack it can
work, but for other than racing, I wouldn't run it at
72vdc to the terminals!
HTH's,
jerry dycus
--- MYLES ANTHONY TWETE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> First, I don't have experience with my ETEK at 72v,
> but only 36v for my electric boat:
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html
>
> But, here's something to consider:
>
> The ETEK motor has only something like 32milli-ohms
> of resistance. Thus, the stall current at 48v
> computes to be about 1500amps. So at 72v, the ETEK
> stall current would be about 2250amps. While
> inductance, series resistance and of course motor
> speed help to reduce the stress on the controller,
> it's something to consider.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i've never rated JB weld
it seems inferior to devcon belzona etc
i wonder if temperature has anthing to do with this as i'm usually gleing things at
below 15 C
any one any ideas ?
obviously i do prep the surfaces properlt
reb
Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Joseph H. Strubhar wrote;
> There is a better product in my opinion - I think it is called Supermend
and
> is sold at BiMart.
Hi Joseph,
BiMart is a new one to me. Is Supermend made by Duro, Loc-tite or some other
company??
We used it for magnets in a Tecumseh electric start
> engine; the key to getting it to stay was good prep and lots of pressure
on
> the part while it cured.
>
Can you elaborate on exactly what you did to prep yours? And how does one
apply lots of pressure on curved ferrite magnets without breaking them? Can
you define how much lots is as well please?
Thanks and regards,
Rick
Regards
Richard
---------------------------------
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
heres some data on mine have 3,000 miles on it
www.austinev.org/evalbum/487.html
45 mph 3960w the sweet spot
50 mph 4320w
55mph & full acceleration 8640w
Marco
----- Original Message -----
From: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: EV digest 3889
>
> EV Digest 3889
>
> Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
> by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 2) Re: Battery Box Gauge
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 3) Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Prelim Data Conclusions)
> by "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 4) Re: Motorcycle Range, speed, Re: Motorcycle transmissions
> by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 5) Rf Tags
> by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 6) Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
> by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 7) Re: Running clutchless?
> by Jon Glauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 8) Re: Scooter battery balancer ( Prelim Data Conclusions)
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 9) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
> by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 10) Re: Help! Fave brands/combin. of vac. pumps/switches?
> by Gary Graunke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 11) Re: Battery Box Gauge
> by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 12) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
> by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 13) Re: Help! Fave brands/combin. of vac. pumps/switches?
> by Sam Thurber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 14) Re: Help! Fave brands/combin. of vac. pumps/switches?
> by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 15) Re: Clutchless
> by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 16) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
> by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 17) Re: Battery Strings
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 18) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
> by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 19) Re: Dump Charging "Profiles" !
> by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 20) Stm 180 nicad charging
> by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 21) Re: Glueing Permanent Magnets Back In
> by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 22) Re: Stm 180 nicad charging
> by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 23) Re: Gel Cel Etiquette
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 24) Re: Great big switch
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough wrote:
> One of the NEV guys asks: "Is there a "fast charge/discharge"
> unit I can buy?"
Commercial products exist of course, but they are built (and priced) for
a large company. I don't know of anything for under $1000.
At work, we generally used a commercial programmable load box, a
programmable power supply, and a PC. This is several thousands dollars
worth of equipment.
I've built my own at home. It consists of a Rudman regulator, a bunch of
power resistors on a heatsink with a fan, and a relay. It's all housed
in a cheap 120vac heater cabinet that I scrounged the ceramic element
out of. I use it with a commercial 12v 30amp battery charger.
The Rudman regulator is modified, so it turns on at 15v and turns off at
10.5v. Its "external load" output operates a 12v 40amp SPDT relay, which
switches the battery between load resistor and charger. The old "heat"
switch now selects off, 4amp, 12amp, 18amp, or 25amp load resistors.
I've documented it earlier on the EV list (see the archives).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: FCEV are EV's too
> I saw the Escape Hybrid at the Long Beach Auto Show yesterday. Asked the
spokesmodel about the battery specs. She knew it was 330V, but had no clue
as to the capacity, or the replacement price.
>
> I also checked out the new Prius. Asked that rep about whether they had
any plans to beef up the battery. She asked, "what, you mean for more
performance?" I said, "No, so it can be driven longer distances in
EV-mode." As soon as she heard the word "EV" she responded with, "Oh no,
the Prius doesn't have to be plugged in."
>
> I love how they're trained to respond to any EV questions with this
obvious spin. She didn't even answer the question I asked. Pavlov
conditioning?
>
> Richard
> Hi All;
Ditto, Jack Gretta an' I arrived about the same time in our EV's at the
Ford place in Old Saybrook, CT .He in his MG Midget, I in my Rabbit. I drove
past the big glass fronted showroom, looking for a place to PARK, among the
new unsold vehicles. the voltures, ops, SALES folks came out right away. "
Electric" they said, I said " You have a 'lectric here, too, that we'd like
to meet" Turned out they knew Jack, hell! He had bought his wife's car ,a
Taurus, or Sable ,thing from their establishment, a few years ago. I guess
our rather ratical outlook, I grinningly asked for a THINK. Hah! But, credit
due here, they actually HEARD of it, assured me that they were "Not
Available" Duh! Well, when they had determined that we wern't checkbook in
hand to BUY a Escape, the welcome went damn cold. I HATE car dealerships!
The one down the road, in Old Saybrook,Toyota, didn't want to hear about it
when my Peius muffler fell apart last spring. Lorenson Toyota couldn't be
bothered with a warrenty repair. !!! "Take it back where you got it!" I
DID, Tony Ascrizzi had got it, I bought it from him, Westboro Toyota in MA.
fixed it cheerfully. But I had to drive it up to MA a 100 mile trip! But it
was better than a 1600 bux fix locally!
Back to the story. "Well, we have a few perspective buyers coming in to
drive it" Our welcome went cold. I asked if we could SEE the Escape." Sure,
it's out back" We went "out back" $$$34500 in change to drive it home! Oh
joy! It was unlocked, popped the hood to see the engine room. Feh! Not much
to see 'cuz of the plastic "Hybrid" cover over everything. The battery hides
where the spare tire well usually lives. Of course the " High Voltage"
stickers are a dead givaway. Can't really SEE anything, all safely covered
up from prying fingers or eyes. Damn good thinhg it is as it is a 300 volt
system! But no ride. That damn car sat there over an hour, NOBODY drove it
or even LOOKED at it. IE he coulda flipped us the leys and said: "You have
about 15 minutes, half hour, try it, see what ya think" it was very neatly
done inside, nothing that anybody couldnt just put key in , start, put in
drive and aim it. No tuitorial on how to drive it, like my Prius, just turn
the key and go! 9500 miles later, never opened the hood ' cept to check the
oil, water, etc, something you do with ANY ICE car!
They didn't say we COULDN'T drive it."Come back , maybe next
wednesday," IF it isn't sold!Yeah! Right! the last one sold off the lot in a
day. Glad biz is good, but it won't be MY bix! Phooey! I can buy a nice set
of exhotic batteries for my next ev with 34k IF I had it to begin with, All
I saw in the Escape was a four place car. Hmmm? Like my Prius. OK I couldn't
do much four wheelin' in a Prius, as I could in the Escape, but in CT that
'aint my thing.
Somebody else will have to give you a drivers report, I guess? Sigh!
Still All Electric, for now
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the second partisan politically-flavored post recently on this list. I'm
really shocked and surprised, mainly because the person who posted it is a
relatively experienced list member and should know better.
Look, folks. Politics these days is a deeply polarizing subject, and it's
getting worse all the time. When you post partisan political material here,
the following things happen:
1. People who don't agree with you get mad.
2. The list starts to fill up with posts attacking you.
3. The list fills up even more with posts defending you.
4. But - NOBODY HERE CHANGES HIS MIND.
5. And - people who come here to learn about EVs can't get a word in
edgewise for all the roaring flames.
Reread point 4 above.
Reread point 5 above.
Read them again.
And just in case it STILL hasn't sunk in: partisan political posts have NO net
persuasive effect at all. All they do is ruin things for the rest of us.
It's a complete waste of your time and ours to post political stuff here. So
why bother?
As assistant administrator of this list, I've been as kind as possible to folks
who do this. I know that people are passionate about this subject.
Unfortunately, their emotions apparently trump their reason, and they forget
themselves. I understand that, but that doesn't make it an appropriate or
acceptable use of the list.
Political posts on nonpolitical lists are like cancers: invasive growths that
crowd out healthy tissue and eventually kill the host organism. The best
treatment for cancer is prevention, and the second best is prompt removal.
Without wanting to sound too dramatic, I'll just say that the next person who
posts off-topic and/or partisan political material here will get ONE warning.
On the next inappropriate post from that person, be it a day later or a year
later, I'm going to petition for that person's removal and permanent ban from
the list - with no further warning.
Do not think that this will not happen, folks.
A few years ago, the AE list's value was destroyed by partisan bickering.
The EV list is too valuable a resource to allow that to happen here. And I
really don't want to see this turn into a moderated list.
Come on, gang. We're all adults here. Use a little self-control and self-
discipline. Argue all you want to about flooded vs. AGM, AC vs. DC, dual vs.
single motor. But keep the partisan politics to yourself - or expect to be
removed from the discussion.
I also beg of the rest of you: when a person DOES post a partisan message,
PLEASE IGNORE IT. If you feel you must respond to it, direct your
response to me instead. Don't post to the list. Don't even send private email
to the person who posted. Email me, and I'll handle the situation.
Thanks folks. And especially thanks to those who held their fire on this one.
That's the kind of restraint we need from everyone.
David
Assistant EV List Administrator and Topic Cop
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Running clutchless?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Claudio Natoli" <
>
> >
> > Is there any reason to keep the clutch/flywheel assembly?
> >
> Hi EVerybody;
And you can speedshift! But don't try it IF you arent damnshure you can!
For my 400 amp Turnpike launches I speed shift from third to forth in the
Rabbit, with the ampmeter and "Gas" pedal floored. But you wouldn't be able
to do it without the million pound Diseasel flywheel! I might add that the
clutch doubles as a torque limiter, or I'd be changing trannys like Rod in
Gone Postal!If I turned the T Wrecks up to full boil!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
A change of pace for the season ;
They came, of course, at the Engineers call,
The Witches, the Broomsticks, the cats an' all.
He led the Hags to a passenger train.
The Diseasels were trying to drag in vain.
Now then .Says he " You've had you're fun.
Here are the cars you've got to run
You may keep your black cats to hug, but,that silver train
you've got to lug"
Since then, on many a train you'll see.
A broomstick, plain as plain can be.
On every stick, there's a witch astride.
As for that old hag, you can't see her.
But if you listen you can hear her black cat's purr!
And now and again, as a train goes by,
you can catch a gleam from her wicked eye.
Often you've looked at an electric train.
But what moved it was not so plain.
It couldn't be those wires above?
For they could neither push nor shove.
Where was the motor that made it go?
You couldn't guess, but now you know!
Apologies to Oliver Wendell Holmes!.........and you folks that don't live around E
railroads or Light Rail.
You older Listers may remember this one from ''97, first time around
OK Back to Dump Charging and gluing pole pieces back in!
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rick,
I'll see what was used on the original print for that
motor. I'll talk to our manf. plant about their
process for gluing the magnets (assuming there are
prints still left!!!).
Rod
--- Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> > I seen someone was looking for an epoxy to do glue
> permanent magnets back
> > into the barrel. All I can say is good freaking
> luck. My self and over 50
> > other rebuild shops have tried this, and with
> epoxys design for this vary
> > task. I do not know of one person that has yet to
> be successful.
> > I think, do not know for sure, that when the
> motors were originally
> > constructed, the magnets were not charged until
> after they were installed.
> > But for whatever reason, we have never seen
> anything work at reinstalling
> > them. Thousands of PMGR starter barrels are thrown
> each day because there
> is
> > no way of fixing/repairing/rebuilding them.
> > What we do with the motors that are too expensive
> to throw away, is simply
> > return them to the original manufacturer for the
> repair. If they say they
> > won't, contact me and I will try and find a large
> enough shop that can
> make
> > the repair. I.e. install a new magnet and charge
> it.
> > Raymond
>
> Hi Raynond,
>
> Perhaps the issue is more to do with the glue medium
> than anything else. The
> stuff my magnets are held in with looks like a
> yellowish goo resembling
> common rubber cement. Underneath the three that came
> loose, it's obvious
> that there simply wasn't enough ~goo~ installed.
>
> This is a used motor I acquired from a person on the
> EVDL for a nice price
> and it's perfect for the intended
> application....other than the magnets
> coming loose. There's no data on the motor, no
> manufacturers I.D, nothing,
> not even specs. I wouldn't know who to send it to,
> nevermind the fact that
> it is likely way out of warranty. I have essentially
> no money in this motor,
> so if $5.00 worth of JB Weld will hold it together
> for a while, I'm in
> there!!
>
> I appreciate your input and will pass along your
> contact info to someone who
> needs a field pressed out of a series motor and
> pressed back into another
> barrel. The things we do for fun and to save a
> couple pounds is sometimes
> astounding, huh?
>
> Thanks and kind regards,
>
> Rick
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> They came, of course, at the Engineers call,
> The Witches, the Broomsticks, the cats an' all...
Great repost, Bob! Here's my contribution to the season (also a repost).
EV Monster Mash
by Lee A. Hart
I was working in the lab, late one night
When my eyes beheld an eerie sight
I got in my car, to go out for a bite
But I turned the key, and to my delight
refrain (It's an EV)... It's now my new EV
(It's an EV)... It runs electrically
(It's an EV)... It's now pollution free
(It's an EV)... They'll sell no gas to me!
Once it was a Rabbit, old and grey
But my trusty tools stripped its engine bay
In its place, I installed a big ADC
>From a Ebay bargain Igor happened to see
refrain
When the batteries died, I just used my head
They say I'm good at bringing life to the dead
And now I can charge as fast as I like
By arranging a suitable lightning strike
refrain
Out from the crypt Drac's voice did ring
Seems he'd discovered some little thing
He'd picked up a cell, and took a big bite
And said, "You know, blood's an electrolyte!"
refrain
The time slips hidden underneath the seat
Tell me Igor's racing when the dragsters meet
Igor, if you want to win that dare
Let's add the knife switch from our electric chair
refrain
I can't tell you how much joy I've got
Scaring people to death in the parking lot
So now, to electrocute your car, too
Call your EV vendor; tell him "Boris sent you!"
Happy Halloween!
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:37:25 -0800 (PST), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Miles and All,
> It probably takes less than that to burn them
>up.
> I toasted my commutator in less than 1 second
>on 36 vdc and through a resistor starting on a small
>rise.
> I'd find it hard to believe I put over 500
>amps thru the 3rd speed GC resistor used.
> I went back to my Citi-car motor after
>rebuilding it's old brush, brush holder was replaced
>and seated well and no problens since.
Jerry,
Can you elaborate a bit on your ETEK problems? I was planning on using an
ETEK on my Citi. Actually 2, cog belted together on a 72 volt battery and
controller.
Do you think there was something wrong with the motor? It's hard to
imagine passing enough current through the stock starting resistor to
smoke an ETEK that fast. If it did then I must re-think my plans.
John
> It had a problem I believe was the leads to
>the brushes were corroded from our moist Fla air over
>35 yrs.
> If you run 72vdc on the E-tek for more than a
>few seconds on it the current it will pull trying to
>get to 6,000 rpm would be quite high. And it's rpm
>rating is only 4,000 rpm.
> Now by setting the controller so that the
>motor only sees 50-55vdc from a 72vdc pack it can
>work, but for other than racing, I wouldn't run it at
>72vdc to the terminals!
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
>
>--- MYLES ANTHONY TWETE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> First, I don't have experience with my ETEK at 72v,
>> but only 36v for my electric boat:
>> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html
>>
>> But, here's something to consider:
>>
>> The ETEK motor has only something like 32milli-ohms
>> of resistance. Thus, the stall current at 48v
>> computes to be about 1500amps. So at 72v, the ETEK
>> stall current would be about 2250amps. While
>> inductance, series resistance and of course motor
>> speed help to reduce the stress on the controller,
>> it's something to consider.
>>
>> -Myles Twete, Portland
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
>http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> It probably takes less than that to burn them up.
> I toasted my commutator in less than 1 second on 36 vdc and through a
resistor starting on a small
> rise.
Good point Jerry-
There's a difference between the extrapolated stall current from
manufacturer's graph versus at what current things begin to fry or fuse.
For current limits, it's best to use the lesser of the two. Still, 1-sec
is a long time compared to the PWM switching time of our modern controllers
(under 70us). So, well before the brushes and commutator have a chance to
heat up and fry, a controller's output stage can get substantially stressed
from a low-R, low-L motor. The ETEK's not too stressing on the controllers
I've used thus far (Curtis 1206 by EZ-GO and an ALLTRAX AXE4824?).
Allegedly, similar controllers have a more difficult time dealing with
lower L/R of a Lynch motor though. And these stresses happen regardless of
static motor current limit settings on the controller.
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 01:37:25 -0800 (PST), jerry
> dycus
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Miles and All,
> > It probably takes less than that to burn
> them
> >up.
> > I toasted my commutator in less than 1
> second
> >on 36 vdc and through a resistor starting on a
> small
> >rise.
If it can't take a second at about 350 or so amps
then it's probably not good for heavier, 1,000 lb plus
EV's. Now in a motorcycle is another story where it
would make a good 1.
> > I'd find it hard to believe I put over 500
> >amps thru the 3rd speed GC resistor used.
> > I went back to my Citi-car motor after
> >rebuilding it's old brush, brush holder was
> replaced
> >and seated well and no problens since.
>
> Jerry,
>
> Can you elaborate a bit on your ETEK problems? I
> was planning on using an
> ETEK on my Citi. Actually 2, cog belted together on
> a 72 volt battery and
> controller.
My E-woody is a little lighter than the Citi-car
and the same top speed when it's running 36vdc, on
48vdc it runs 57 mph. I was planning 2 E-teks but my
other motor died so tried it alone and paid the price.
It lasted 2 weeks, about 300 miles. The com was broken
in.
2 could work if you plan to keep the speeds
aroung 45mph because of the Citi-car's aero.
But you live in a hilly area I believe so that
should be taken into account.
Too bad for me as I really liked it's top speed
power, all round eff.
But for starting torque the 3.5hp-36vdc Citi-car
motor I'm running again would probably beat 2 E-teks
and the power at top speed goes to the
E-teks. But if you can't start up a hill?
With the 2 e-teks you could series-parallel them
which would help some but not as much as a series
motor.
One good thing if using an E-controller it's
current limits would help save the commutators.
The problem with the motor is the com is just
the edge of the single loop of flat wire winding that
was machined flat about 3/32" wide and about 144 of
them, 8 pole.
The current is divided into 4 brush sets but the
brushes, com are small.
Now I'm thinking of either a shunt, sep ex,
motor or building my own.
But will I have the same starting problem with
the shunt as the PM e-tek?
Any good, reasonable costs, sep-ex motors,
controllers about 72vdc out their that would work for
a 1200 lb ev direct drive?
>
> Do you think there was something wrong with the
> motor? It's hard to
> imagine passing enough current through the stock
> starting resistor to
> smoke an ETEK that fast. If it did then I must
> re-think my plans.
Yeah, that really bothered me in the pocket book!
I never thought it would go so easily with that
resistor there. My series motor works easily with it
starting up the same rise at the local library.
In flat Fla 2 E-teks would work for you but in
Tenn?
jerry dycus
>
> John
> > It had a problem I believe was the leads
> to
> >the brushes were corroded from our moist Fla air
> over
> >35 yrs.
> > If you run 72vdc on the E-tek for more
> than a
> >few seconds on it the current it will pull trying
> to
> >get to 6,000 rpm would be quite high. And it's rpm
> >rating is only 4,000 rpm.
> > Now by setting the controller so that the
> >motor only sees 50-55vdc from a 72vdc pack it can
> >work, but for other than racing, I wouldn't run it
> at
> >72vdc to the terminals!
> > HTH's,
> > jerry dycus
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus said:
> Any good, reasonable costs, sep-ex motors,
> controllers about 72vdc out their that would work for
> a 1200 lb ev direct drive?
If you can find someone with a GE programmer, I have a couple of 350A 72V
sep-ex controls I would sell cheap. I also have the GE motors to match,
but they are GEM NEV motors, so no front bearing. Curtis also makes
sep-ex controllers.
Keith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Commercial products exist of course, but they are built (and priced)
for a large company. I don't know of anything for under $1000.
Thanks for the details Lee! I suspected as much, but it is great to get
the definative word. I'll pass this along to the NEV folks.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am just about to get the power steering pump hoses made up at the local
hydraulic shop, and I wanted to confirm that I have the connections correct:
- from high pressure side of pump to high pressure side of steering rack
- from low pressure side of steering rack to cooler
- from cooler to top of reservoir
- from bottom of reservoir to low pressure side of pump
Does this sound right?
thanks
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do not know for sure, but shouldn't the cooler get the high pressure (hot)
fluid, at the output of the pump?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:43 PM
Subject: Power Steering Pump Connections - confirmation
I am just about to get the power steering pump hoses made up at the local
hydraulic shop, and I wanted to confirm that I have the connections
correct:
- from high pressure side of pump to high pressure side of steering rack
- from low pressure side of steering rack to cooler
- from cooler to top of reservoir
- from bottom of reservoir to low pressure side of pump
Does this sound right?
thanks
Don
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And if you can't get a GE controller programmer, and can get a Curtis
programmer, I have a 1244 sep-ex controller (72V, 600A) I bought off
Keith that I never used. But he probably wants less for the GE than I
want for the sep-ex Curtis.
Seth
On Oct 31, 2004, at 3:52 PM, Keith Richtman wrote:
jerry dycus said:
Any good, reasonable costs, sep-ex motors,
controllers about 72vdc out their that would work for
a 1200 lb ev direct drive?
If you can find someone with a GE programmer, I have a couple of 350A
72V
sep-ex controls I would sell cheap. I also have the GE motors to
match,
but they are GEM NEV motors, so no front bearing. Curtis also makes
sep-ex controllers.
Keith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, here is the deal. I got in on this station car. A 1980 VW Rabbit.
72V 400+ amp Curtis series wound, K&W BC-20 charger. It is rough, and
located in Southern NH. I bought it cheap. $500. Electro Automotive
kit with a 4 speed, a 6.7" motor. Slow, but useable. E-meter. I never
got to a point where I could use it as a station car. So I can store it
over the winter, or sell it. I have balanced the batteries a bit. I
also have a few DC-DC converters for it. It has invicta GLRs on 3
wheels. I have a few more alloys for it. I might even have swaybars and
snow tires for it. Steve Cicorcia sent me capacitors for PFC correction
for the K&W but I haven't installed them.
It is rough, it had a rear battery box fire, but has been repaired. It
has abused floodies in it. I figure the couple of DC-DC converters
makes it worth $700. You pick it up. No title. If you want it
registered in NH, I can do that, but it becomes a hassle so the price
goes to $1000. A NH registration might come with a title, I dunno.
Many thanks to Bob Rice who delivered it to me. Unfortunately when I
quit Solectria I no longer was at a place where a station car made
sense, so it is your gain.
A warning: if I get a bunch of people who want it, it is $700 or best
offer, as in highest offer. Remeber, it is rough, but I figure a
controller, transaxle and charger are worth that. You could buy the
clean 1992 VW jetta in the yard too (my parents' old car), and have a
great clean car to swap it all into. A 144V system would be nice, too.
Seth Allen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Keith,
I have the programmer, but can't part with it since
the TEVan also uses the same one!
I may be interested in the the motors.
Seth has an Autocad drawing for a coupler that will
fit the splines of this motor. He sent one to me
which I used on my Dyno setup at work. We
convienently had aluminum end bells that fit this
motor that required a few holes drilled.
I pressed a bearing on the coupler that Seth sent and
was running in no time.
I might also be interested in a control. Most of the
junk I have sitting around is 1st generation before
the bugs were worked out.
Thanks,
Rod
--- Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus said:
> > Any good, reasonable costs, sep-ex motors,
> > controllers about 72vdc out their that would work
> for
> > a 1200 lb ev direct drive?
>
> If you can find someone with a GE programmer, I have
> a couple of 350A 72V
> sep-ex controls I would sell cheap. I also have the
> GE motors to match,
> but they are GEM NEV motors, so no front bearing.
> Curtis also makes
> sep-ex controllers.
>
> Keith
>
>
--- End Message ---
