EV Digest 3906
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) How to put pictures on album, - from Ed. Gordon in Plymouth, Devon, UK
by "jeanedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Antique book: was Re: ruminitions on energy
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) I hate batteries
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: I hate batteries
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: How to put pictures on album, - from Ed. Gordon in
Plymouth, Devon, UK
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 1980 rabbit on the tradin' post
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fw: Electric Porsche
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: I hate batteries, comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 1980 rabbit on the tradin' post, Free! see below!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) SAFT NiCads @8,000 miles (was: I hate batteries)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Precharge Resistor Questions
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Stewart Freaks Branson on Daily Show
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: SAFT NiCads @8,000 miles (was: I hate batteries)
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Stewart Freaks Branson on Daily Show
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: WATTABMR- Damage report (safty ideas)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Popeye's EV?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: marketing hydrogen, Now charger connection safety.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Precharge Resistor Questions
by "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: WATTABMR- Damage report (safty ideas)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This is a FAQ, I'll bet, but please forgive novitiate ignorance,
how do I put a picture of the TWEV on the album ?
(And, - is it OK to do that ?)
Cheers
Ed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The closest I can find is on www.bibliofind.com for $75
The title and date look right, but again, I am at work and don't have the book
handy to refer to, but I think this is a later edition than mine.
Title:
SELF-PROPELLED VEHICLES. A Practical Treatise on the Theory, Construction,
Operation, Care and Management of All Forms of Automobiles.
Publisher: Theo. Audel & Co.,
Place of Publication: NY:
Date of Publication: 1908.
Edition: 3rd ed.
Binding: 8vo. Red cloth. TEG. 598 ppg (including index),
Condition: VG (spine sunned/bit of wear at spine ends/corner tips worn).
URL(check this out, small enough to work in email!!):
http://tinyurl.com/4fjum
This weekend I'll try to unpack the part of my library that probably has that
book and the scanner in it (Moved last May, still finding things).
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lightning Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 03:20 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: ruminitions on energy
>
> > This same book has fascinating diagrams for contactor controllers for EVs.
> > One was a single unit that switched from 2 to 48 volts in 2X increments via
> > a long wooden lever handle. On the bottom end of the handle was a bunch of
> > spring loaded contacts that slid along multiple arcs of stationary contacts.
> > I bet it sparked impressively!
> > I'll see if I can find a scanner and put some of these pages on the web.
>
> That would be Great!!!
>
> I'de love to see as many contactor controllers as you can scan!
> Heck, I'll probably buy that book, if it's available anywhere!
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I have only 7700 miles on my US125's 20ea for 120V system and my battery
scanner is showing #13 and #15 running dead after only 15 miles of travel, used
to have 30 mile range. Previously I had 14 of the US8VGC-HD-s which went 10k
miles.
In my Electro-Metro I used regular-bimbo Sam's T-105's (Trojan) (14ea) and got
14K miles but when switched to 14ea US8VGC's I only got 9k miles. I thought the
125's would last at *least* 14k miles since I charge at both ends, work & home
and only drive 15 miles to work now (with some running around for parts at
lunch <10 miles).
I payed $1200 for the 125's, guess I'll go back to 20 T105's from Sam's (but
they stopped putting handles on them, dumb) or some other el cheapo place. Does
anyone know of a better golf cart battery that doesn't cost an arm & a leg? I'd
love to have NiMh etc, but don't see how I could afford >$10k for a pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also had the Trojans 220 AH which are now simular to the T105's. I don't
drive that much a year and it takes me over 10 years to put on 15K miles. I
was be able to get 12 years on these batteries with 4 replacements.
I now have the T145's which I bought directly from Trojan. I now have 4
years, with no replacements and they are still in balance in with 0.01 volt
of each other in 26 batteries and 0.02 in the others.
These batteries have a insertion tab for a removable handle.
I normally drive about a week before charging, and they are charge up to 80%
in about 40 minutes and 100% in 60 minutes with a PFC-50B.
These units cost me about $80.00 each.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:52 AM
Subject: I hate batteries
Well, I have only 7700 miles on my US125's 20ea for 120V system and my
battery scanner is showing #13 and #15 running dead after only 15 miles of
travel, used to have 30 mile range. Previously I had 14 of the US8VGC-HD-s
which went 10k miles.
In my Electro-Metro I used regular-bimbo Sam's T-105's (Trojan) (14ea) and
got 14K miles but when switched to 14ea US8VGC's I only got 9k miles. I
thought the 125's would last at *least* 14k miles since I charge at both
ends, work & home and only drive 15 miles to work now (with some running
around for parts at lunch <10 miles).
I payed $1200 for the 125's, guess I'll go back to 20 T105's from Sam's (but
they stopped putting handles on them, dumb) or some other el cheapo place.
Does anyone know of a better golf cart battery that doesn't cost an arm & a
leg? I'd love to have NiMh etc, but don't see how I could afford >$10k for a
pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ed wrote:
This is a FAQ, I'll bet, but please forgive novitiate ignorance,
how do I put a picture of the TWEV on the album ?
(And, - is it OK to do that ?)
Cheers
Ed.
Hi Ed and all,
Actually the EV Photo Album is only slightly connected with the EV List. I
created it as a place to show off EVs since everyone spoke about their EVs
and no one could see them. Many of the Album entries do not belong to
folks on the EVDL. Yours is quite welcome as well.
To submit your EV to the Album, just go to http://www.austinev.org/evalbum
and click on the "ADD YOUR EV" button at the top of the page. This will
take you to http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/albumsubmission.html Follow
the instructions there, email or snail mail me some pictures and fill out
the form. When you press the "Submit Your EV" button at the bottom of the
form, it emails me the form results, and sends a copy to you to as well.
Once I have the pictures and form results, I create the webpage and upload
it to a temporary location for review. I then send you an email with a
link to the temp page, asking you to review it and verify it came out as
you wished. You then look it over and let me know what corrections are
needed. Once you have approved it, I then move it to the regular Album
area, and add it to the index. I then send another email with its new
location.
This is a very hands on solution, but it does work. We are now up to 561
entries, so it is getting more than a bit ponderous. I have been
considering a reconstruction to automate things a bit and drive the system
from a database, but so far I haven't had the time to make any headway with
that.
Anyway, send me some pictures, fill in the form, and I will get started on
your page.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
Webmaster
EV List Photo Album
http://evalbum.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Never got anytone who was willing to show up with money to take the
wabbit off my hands so it is on the tradin' post now.
Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:04 AM
Subject: Electric Porsche
> I am enjoying your videos. I'm impressed at the practical and cost
> effective engineering of your solutions.
>
If you have lots of time and not much money than making your own adaptor
plate is possible with just the average shop tools .
I'm still looking for video form other people's projects , with there Ideas
, to mix with mine. Anybody sending me something will get my video on
converting there gas car to electric for free.
> Didn't you build the electric Porsche on Paul's Exotics?
I did the electric part , Paul did the body and interior ,
http://www.worldclassexotics.com/
>
> Is 2350 an actual weighed or estimated weight?
That the real weight, and for me it was an eye opener , less weight is
better that more power ( I know this is apples to oranges with no numbers
attached. )
That seems pretty
> light, I was estimating my 911 with 13 Orbital would be maybe 150
> lbs more than that.
This is on a 68 912 body ,
Did the car have any special weight loss efforts,
> like fiberglass body panels? I see in the pics it might have lighter
> than stock seats.
>
yes its got lots of fiberglass body parts , that's why it looks like a 959,
I did the battery boxes with steel , so there could have been some weight
saving there.
> Similarly, is the 85 mph top speed verified? Seems it could go even
> faster.
>
It has a vw tranny so the gearing might not let it , It has a 156v 1200 amp
rapture in it
> 50 miles range sounds pretty good, I realize this is probably a best
> case number.
That's for sure , :-) . I one time told him that " its customary for
electric car drivers to say there cars will go about 1/2 the distance that
they can really could go so people won't we disappointed " I also pointed
out that even though I'd driven my ev ranger (20 golf cart bats) 76 miles in
a EV rally I only clam a 30 mile range. He pointed out that nobody gets the
gas mileage the car company's post and nobody expects to ,
Did you ever get a chance to do a real life test on
> range?
You don't have to drive an ev 100 miles to find out if it will go that far.
You can get this information for your amp meter , and its fun to do . First
get the ev warmed up with a 5 miles run then slow down to a speed you want
to investigate or pick a distance . for example my Mazda pickup at 20 mph
will use 30 amp , so after 5 hours of driving I'll have used 150 ah which
I'm pretty sure I'll get from my 6v golf cart batts with this slow drawl.
Paul's car uses 15 amps to go 25mph so with the excides giving 30ah that 2
hours or 50 miles ,
I'm leaning towards having about twice that number of
> batteries, a 100 mile range would be incredible, but probably too
> much to hope for.
Its the old speed or range thing , hard to have both. another nice thing
about a light ev is the handling , Paul's car is a lot of fun being so light
, it fly's around corners and the weight being low with a little more in the
front , putting more batteries in for better distance will cost in speed and
handling. .
>
> Of course, any generic advice for me is appreciated! Do you have any
> "If I were going to do a 911 again..." kinds of comments?
>
If I were to do it again , I'd do it again and again :-) this is a great car
to do , there is lots of room for batteries , good air dynamics , brakes are
already over sized , and when your done , you have a very nice car. The one
problem with doing a fine car like this is that its hard to jump in there
with the cutting torch, sawsall and cut away. That feeling of "what am I
doing" is a hard one to fight , .
Steve Clunn
> Many thanks!
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark;
Gees! I thought I had it bad with batteries!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 8:52 AM
Subject: I hate batteries
Well, I have only 7700 miles on my US125's 20ea for 120V system and my
battery scanner is showing #13 and #15 running dead after only 15 miles of
travel, used to have 30 mile range. Previously I had 14 of the US8VGC-HD-s
which went 10k miles.
I would think that your "duty cycle " would be easy on batteries?? only
15 miles a day. Gees! I can see your disapointment. I have beaten a hellova
lot of batteries to death in the last 5 years. Ran a lot of used ones at
first, Trojan T 105's at first 22k from my FIRST pack, with the 3 speed
contactor controller, no less! Tried US'es, used, they didn't last more than
a few months, but they were used, too, no way to tell HOW used. Cells died
right and left! They went to the recyling center real quick! My battery guy
suggested Dyno batteries, out of Seattle. OK awile, but I did the NO NO, ran
them DEAD, car would hardly go, that was the end of them!I did that to the
Trojans, too, but they didn't seem to care....as much. In about 6k miles
their version of the T 125 were shot. They had a 2 year gaurantee, he gave
me a NEW set. Gees! A battery guy that honored the 2 year gaurentee a year
and change early. I passed them on to Tony Ascrizzi for HIS Rabbit. He has a
far less demanding cycle on his driving cycle. Some of the Red Beastie T
105's soldier on in my Rabbit today, as we played musical batteries awile. I
went through a set of T 145's, about 21k, in the meantime. They went damn
quick, when they went. At first one would do the "Trojan Teakettle, one cell
would be boiling over. Junk it, sigh! Then a few weaks later another! They
go in sympathy with the last one. I started looking for a few used ones from
my battery guy. Nope, none in right now. A month later I could BARELY get
the 26 miles to the RR, work, I HAD to plug in for sure. When they were
newer a 56 mile RT was no problem. A few of the healthyer ones are in my
Electrac for now. They fit fine in my higher battery box I built it.
Planning on winter snowthrowing duty wth the E 20, the rest of them I gave
away to a guy on the Electrac List
I hava new, well used a bit set of T 145's to switch over to, but the
set of T 105's are doing fine, although I sure notice a drop in range in the
cold now. I keep the Rabbit in a warmer than outside ,attached garage, The
PFC 20 heats it a little.
Never tried the 8 volters, havent heard anything good about them on the
List Mark do ya have a battery distributer near you? A place that recieves
truckloads of batteries. When they get them by the ton mile they get
damaged, dinged, blemmed. they can't sell them new, but they may blow them
out cheap? Rather then scrapping them. Or a used set? I have had good luck
with used. But stick with Trojans! I have tried others but end up with a
carload of Trojans. I had mix and match Trojans and US'es, awile, the USes
don't play well with Trojans, they boiled away, in discust, right quick!
In my Electro-Metro I used regular-bimbo Sam's T-105's (Trojan) (14ea) and
got 14K miles but when switched to 14ea US8VGC's I only got 9k miles. I
thought the 125's would last at *least* 14k miles since I charge at both
ends, work & home and only drive 15 miles to work now (with some running
around for parts at lunch <10 miles).
I payed $1200 for the 125's, guess I'll go back to 20 T105's from Sam's (but
they stopped putting handles on them, dumb) or some other el cheapo place.
Does anyone know of a better golf cart battery that doesn't cost an arm & a
leg? I'd love to have NiMh etc, but don't see how I could afford >$10k for a
pack.
If ya find that, we'd all like to know<g>!
The age old problem. We ALL hate batteries, but what are ya gunna do? I
think that battery longevity depends on THAT production run THAT day, for
the same#$%^ battery! Howcom I get 20 k out of one set, 6k out of anotherI
sound like a plug for Trojan, sorry, but I have had the best results with.
Maybe at the cost of gas and Diseasel goes up to the World price we will
actually save money with electrics? Like if all the money I have spent on
EV's went for Diseasel Fuel for my Diesel Rabbit, I'd be ahead of the game,
anyhow? I figure that the more I use the EV the less that I crap up the air.
And that's a good thing, for sure, less noise, parts to replace, on and on.
A EV is a bit like a sailboat. To keep a sailboat up is hidiously
expensine, you could say the hell with it and buy a stinkpot(motor boat) but
there is something we sailers love about a sailboat. she slips through the
water so easily, silently, when you're trimmed just right, beautiful,
relaxing! You sailers know what I mean. "Raghaulers "to the Motor , no
engine , if it was a true "Motor" boat, wouldn't it be electric? GM would be
General ENGINES? Sigh! Boat crowd, but no gas or Diseasel stink out on the
water, of course you share the racket and stink with everybody ELSE out on
the water. So I EV , but don't really look at how much it costs, My
hobby, like I coulda kept the boat, and spent as much money, or MORE for the
few daze I would have time to use the#$%^ thing. But I use the EV daily, to
work, and all the other enchanting places I hafta go, EVery day.
My two cells worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth;
I'm surprised! When Mark an' I bought it in Delaware we had to beat out
about a duzen OTHER folks to get it! It isn't pretty, anymore, it wasn't
EVer pretty, but it WAS usable, folks ,and parts on the hoof for another
Rabbit or Jetta.
Free FREE! Anybody in thre East Coast buys this Bunnny, and gives it a
loving home. I hava 88 Jetta I wanna get rid of. Please take it too! Whadda
deal! Transfer all the eklectricals over.
OK ya don't even hafta buy the bunny, but make Seth's day!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:44 AM
Subject: 1980 rabbit on the tradin' post
> Never got anytone who was willing to show up with money to take the
> wabbit off my hands so it is on the tradin' post now.
>
> Seth
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:52 AM 11/11/2004, you wrote:
Well, I have only 7700 miles on my US125's 20ea for 120V system and my
battery scanner is showing #13 and #15 running dead after only 15 miles of
travel, used to have 30 mile range. Previously I had 14 of the US8VGC-HD-s
which went 10k miles.
The above was one of the prime motivations for changing over to
NiCads. I was sick and tired of changing out batteries and fussing over
batteries.
I have about 8,000 miles on my SAFT STM100-MRE flooded NiCads at
this point. I can't tell any difference from when I first installed them.
So far, so good. Perhaps they will last the projected 100,000 miles. We
shall see.
With 735 lbs of NiCads, I can go about 40 miles at 80 MPH, or 80
miles at 40 MPH. With the same weight in AGM lead-acid, I could only go 30
miles at 65 MPH. Of course, the HP dropped from 200 HP down to 100 HP when
I made the change to NiCads, but I'm OK with that.
The only pain with the NiCads has been the cooling system. Each
battery has two cooling jackets, one on either side. There are 24
batteries, and they each connect to the supply and return manifolds. I
ended up with about 150 hose connections. There is also a lot of CPVC pipe
with its connections. I have just finally managed to rid the system of
leaks. It has taken about a year to accomplish this. A large part of this
time was spent finding the "right" glue to connect CPVC to acrylic, and
also finding the "right" hose clamps.
The central watering plumbing, on the other hand, worked perfectly
from the first day. It also keeps the terminals and battery tops
electrolyte free. It takes about 10 minutes of my time and about two
gallons of distilled water every 3 months.
I enjoy commuting in the car much more now that I have a large
margin in the available energy. I can run an errand on the way to work, or
go out to dinner directly after work and not worry about running out of
juice. Also, during a dinner out, I don't have to worry about leaving the
pack discharged while I linger over dessert. The NiCads don't care what
state of charge you leave them in. No sulfation to worry about. Also, they
don't care if you run them completely flat. You can creep the last few
blocks home with a "dead" pack with no harm done.
Another advantage is the absence of temperature sensitivity.
Winter or summer, the car has the same range.
Of course, the big disadvantage is cost. These 6 volt modules cost
about $400 each. This makes a conversion nearly as expensive as a brand new
hybrid. Then again, my "fuel" cost is less than $0.02 per mile.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a question about the Precharge Resistor for Curtis controllers when
using two contactors, but first I want to verify I understand correctly what
the resistor is doing.
Since the resistor is connected across the terminals of the contactor, there
is a connection from the traction batteries to the Curtis controller (i.e.,
a completed circuit) at all times when the battery pack is connected,
regardless of whether the key is on or not. This precharges the capacitors
in the controller and keeps them that way even while the car is off. Is
that correct?
My question is: to provide extra safety in case a contactor were to fail in
the on position, I'm considering putting two contactors in the circuit, one
on the pack's positive side and one on the negative side--so should I divide
the resistor's value by two and put half the ohms on each contactor?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:05:38 -0500
From: RemyC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Stewart Freaks Branson on Daily Show
November 9, 2004
Comedy Channel
Daily Show
Stewart totally stumped Virgin Billionaire Sir Richard Branson last night on
the Daily Show, leaving on his face a total state of bewilderment, fear and
anxiety. Branson assisted in the funding of the first commercial man flight
into space recently. Yet Branson ruffled in his seat, leaning back as far as
he could trying to avoid this question.
Stewart:
"What about this, putting up a prize for somebody to invent something to get
us off the internal combustion engine? What do you think of that?"
[Monster applause and screams of yeahs!!!]
"Get like an X-Prize type thing, like what they did with space travel...
what do you think of that?"
Branson:
[Uncomfortable giggle]
"uhu... that's hu... hu... yeah... hu... that makes a lot of sense... what's
the"
[Wringing his hands and chuckling uncomfortably as if the question had been
a joke!]
Stewart:
"How about giving me some seed money?"
[Branson leans back in disbelief as he slips his hands behind his head.]
Branson:
"Ah, ah, ah... hum... OK!"
Stewart:
"What do you think of that? You could set this thing up, and people could,
it could be like a private industry thing, there's got to be a way, I mean
we can fake diamonds, there's got to be a way we can make fake oil or
something, you know what I'm saying, it's just carbon for God sake..."
Branson:
"Water"
Stewart:
"Water? It's water?"
Branson:
"Hum..."
Stewart:
"An engine that could run on water? Set up a prize!!!"
Branson:
"Well I 've just given you the answer, so I want the money."
Stewart:
"Oh, you're gonna do it?"
Branson:
"No water!"
Stewart:
"What, cars run on water?"
Branson:
"Yeah, they could do..."
Stewart:
"What, on hydro electric cells or something like that?
Branson:
"Something like that... I don't know... I'm trying, I'm trying to get my
money back."
[Long pause]
Stewart:
"I'm telling you something, this could be a great thing."
Branson:
"ok"
Stewart:
"Seed money!"
Branson:
"Alright... (to the audience) everybody chip in here?"
Stewart:
"YOU're the BILLIONAIRE!!!"
Stewart:
"What's the next challenge?"
Branson:
(Trying to get back to talking about his reality show...)
"They're going into space... on Virgin Galactic."
Stewart:
"I freaked you out, didn't I?"
Branson:
"You completely freaked me out..."
Stewart
"I can't believe I'm comforting a billionaire... It's gonna be OK, you can
buy this network and kick me off the air."
---
This once again proves that you can do anything you want in this world,
except rock the oil economy apple cart... Stewart touched on a taboo, and in
front of millions of people proved once again that the only allowable way to
make money in America is to play by the rules, and the rules say, don't
touch the oil companies who own the banks who own even billionaires like Sir
Richard Branson.
Just for the record, I made the exact same proposal in the late 80's at the
Virgin office in London to a room full of befuddled Virgin executives. Since
then Virgin Airlines has moved their International office to Norwalk
Connecticut, where I live... so watch me go down in a few days with print
outs of this post, and copies of Electrifying Times, probably to get
escorted out again!
Branson runs a great Rock & Roll airline... but he's a total Trilateral
sell-out! I fear John Stewart just jumped the shark last night. By the way,
for those of you still interested, Branson's reality show is a crashing
bore...
Remy C.
ET webed
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For me, Saft nicad is the way to go to have "money back" out of our
batteries.
Other solution would be a perfect EE designed EV using cheap golf cart
batteries but we all know perfect design don't exist...murphy's law.
hating my batteries ? no !
i take care of and love my batteries :^)
Philippe
Citröen electric Saxo, 120V of STM5-MRE Saft nicad.
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:46 PM
Subject: SAFT NiCads @8,000 miles (was: I hate batteries)
> At 06:52 AM 11/11/2004, you wrote:
> >Well, I have only 7700 miles on my US125's 20ea for 120V system and my
> >battery scanner is showing #13 and #15 running dead after only 15 miles
of
> >travel, used to have 30 mile range. Previously I had 14 of the
US8VGC-HD-s
> >which went 10k miles.
>
> The above was one of the prime motivations for changing over to
> NiCads. I was sick and tired of changing out batteries and fussing over
> batteries.
>
> I have about 8,000 miles on my SAFT STM100-MRE flooded NiCads at
> this point. I can't tell any difference from when I first installed them.
> So far, so good. Perhaps they will last the projected 100,000 miles. We
> shall see.
>
> With 735 lbs of NiCads, I can go about 40 miles at 80 MPH, or 80
> miles at 40 MPH. With the same weight in AGM lead-acid, I could only go 30
> miles at 65 MPH. Of course, the HP dropped from 200 HP down to 100 HP when
> I made the change to NiCads, but I'm OK with that.
>
> The only pain with the NiCads has been the cooling system. Each
> battery has two cooling jackets, one on either side. There are 24
> batteries, and they each connect to the supply and return manifolds. I
> ended up with about 150 hose connections. There is also a lot of CPVC pipe
> with its connections. I have just finally managed to rid the system of
> leaks. It has taken about a year to accomplish this. A large part of this
> time was spent finding the "right" glue to connect CPVC to acrylic, and
> also finding the "right" hose clamps.
>
> The central watering plumbing, on the other hand, worked
perfectly
> from the first day. It also keeps the terminals and battery tops
> electrolyte free. It takes about 10 minutes of my time and about two
> gallons of distilled water every 3 months.
>
> I enjoy commuting in the car much more now that I have a large
> margin in the available energy. I can run an errand on the way to work, or
> go out to dinner directly after work and not worry about running out of
> juice. Also, during a dinner out, I don't have to worry about leaving the
> pack discharged while I linger over dessert. The NiCads don't care what
> state of charge you leave them in. No sulfation to worry about. Also, they
> don't care if you run them completely flat. You can creep the last few
> blocks home with a "dead" pack with no harm done.
>
> Another advantage is the absence of temperature sensitivity.
> Winter or summer, the car has the same range.
>
> Of course, the big disadvantage is cost. These 6 volt modules
cost
> about $400 each. This makes a conversion nearly as expensive as a brand
new
> hybrid. Then again, my "fuel" cost is less than $0.02 per mile.
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
> > Back to the original question, I recommended a zero crossing solid state
> > relay because I KNOW that it works, I know WHY it works and I've scoped
> > out the circuit to verify the theory.
>
> Why does it work?
>
A couple points first,
The inrush being attributed the residual magnitizim from the last time
it was operated is Bunk. If this was true, the fact of turn on and turning
off a transformer would dramaticly change the permanent magnetism effects.
Some days your hammer would stick to the transformer some it would not. And
this never happens in the real world.
And 2 the Zero crossing solid state relay was designed to reduce the inrush
in inductive loads. So... it was designed to reduce this effect. Knowing the
solid state Physics... if fun.... but Just knowing what works and what does
not is more important.
Firing off a 37.5 Kw transformer in the monster charger... is a hit and miss
event some times the lights dimm and the 75Kva outside thumps... and
sometimes it does not. It all depends on the phase angle the the breaker
closes on. And yes... I need to know how to kick in our main start relay, at
the best time. I believe that this transformer does have inrush minimizing
winding efforts. I have never opened the 100 amp line feed, and the 200 amp
breaker doesn't know it's being abused.
It's good to know that Vacume seal relays can be trigger to close at the
zero crossing point... Now I need to make that curcuit work.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: marketing hydrogen, really
> > The
> > underground storage tank has 24-hour electronic monitoring and the pump
> > requires a security code to use.
>
> So in other words it's not *really* a commercial pump. It's just for show.
>
> Chris
>
> Put a &$&#*&*( 50kw Magnecharger there. More people could use it.
>
Put a 50 Kw conductive port there and we ALL would beable to use it.
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There is an article in today's LA Times citing a GM executive at the
hydrogen station event as saying it would take $12 billion to install a
pump at 12,000 gas stations nationwide. That figures out to $1,000,000
per pump. I guess he was including the infrastructure?
/Bob
On Wednesday, November 10, 2004, at 08:52 PM, Rich Rudman wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: marketing hydrogen, really
The
underground storage tank has 24-hour electronic monitoring and the
pump
requires a security code to use.
So in other words it's not *really* a commercial pump. It's just for
show.
Chris
Put a &$&#*&*( 50kw Magnecharger there. More people could use it.
Put a 50 Kw conductive port there and we ALL would beable to use it.
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Put a 50 Kw conductive port there and we ALL would beable to use it.
True, however MagneCharger is the solution where you could stick the
paddle in your mouth and have nothing go wrong. It's just really a safe
solution. The fact that my 4 year old can plug in the electric car and
I'm comfortable with this says a lot.
Chris
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:34 AM
Subject: Stewart Freaks Branson on Daily Show
> Branson runs a great Rock & Roll airline... but he's a total Trilateral
> sell-out! I fear John Stewart just jumped the shark last night. By the
way,
> for those of you still interested, Branson's reality show is a crashing
> bore...
>
> Remy C.
> ET webed
>
Although it's funny that sombeody freaked Branson out..
I see that Remy's complete underdstanding of how the world really works.
Is just as Flawed as Ever.
Trilateral What???
For 99.999% of the world if it ain't Gas or Diesel they can't move. This
fact is going to take Decades to over come.. Even if we get favorable funds
from Billionares, and have a understanding public.
It's not the Big Corp Guys that are the stick in the Muds, it's Joe Six
pack, and the Soccer Moms.
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Danny Ames wrote:
> This concerns me as I also have a Todd and PFC.
> I wonder what kind of safety device options are easy and simple?
> ...is it feasible to use a voltage clamping device like a
> varistor, is there even something bigger and watty enough to
> handle that?
A characteristic of a boost converter (like the PFC) is that if it loses
its load at full power, the output voltage can overshoot severely. You
have a big inductor, charged up to a high current. When the transistors
in the PFC turn off, that inductive energy has to dump somewhere.
Normally, it dumps into the load. With no load, it dumps into the output
capacitors. This significantly raises the voltage on these capacitors
(and anything else still connected, like perhaps your Todd).
I'm sure Rich Rudman or Joe Smalley can tell you what measures are
already inside the PFC to protect itself from this sort of event. They
can also tell you the inductance of the boost inductor; by knowing that,
and the current it is at when the fault occurs, we can calculate how
many joules the MOV(s) on the output would need to be to handle it.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Stick that paddle in your mouth.... and pray it does not go active, or else
all your fillings would melt in your head!!
The paddle is a major efficientcy hit, and it is THE most complicted and
expensive way to transfer electrical power from the Grid to the EV.
And GM tried to tie up the market with it, and then left California with the
Bill and no support or EVs.
Nope sorry I can't buy it as a viable charger.
Nice to have
Nice over the hill and far away design.
It is the altimate violater of the Kiss pricnicple.
The implied safety gain.... is out wieghed by the fact that GM killed it,
and over sold the idea. Now...If we could cut it's cost in about 1/8, and
make it as reliable as a Anderson connector... I would be interested in it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: marketing hydrogen, really
> > Put a 50 Kw conductive port there and we ALL would beable to use it.
> True, however MagneCharger is the solution where you could stick the
> paddle in your mouth and have nothing go wrong. It's just really a safe
> solution. The fact that my 4 year old can plug in the electric car and
> I'm comfortable with this says a lot.
>
> Chris
>
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Spinach extends battery life
American scientists have discovered a way to trap the power
of spinach to run laptop computers and cellular phones.
Researchers at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, the
University of Tennessee, the United States Naval Research
Laboratory and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
are converting the energy of photosynthesis to extend the life
of batteries used in portable electronic devices, The New York
Times reported Thursday. "This really shows that there is a
way of using biologically produced molecules and coupling them
directly into applied electronic circuitry," said Barry Bruce
of the University of Tennessee-Knoxville and one of the
scientists working on the project. "This opens up a gateway
for applied application, whether you want to make DNA wires
or enzymatically based reactor cells." The researchers say
commercial applications are years away, adding the discovery
chips away at the barriers between nature and technology.
While past efforts have created currents of only a few hours,
this project has produced electrical current that lasted three
weeks.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
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At 1:09 PM -0500 11-11-04, Christopher Zach wrote:
Put a 50 Kw conductive port there and we ALL would beable to use it.
True, however MagneCharger is the solution where you could stick the
paddle in your mouth and have nothing go wrong. It's just really a
safe solution. The fact that my 4 year old can plug in the electric
car and I'm comfortable with this says a lot.
Chris
If your kid had a big enough mouth, it could stick a conductive Avcon
in it's mouth and nothing would go wrong either.
GM eventually had to admit that their system only had a "perceived"
safety benefit, not a actual one.
I still think the Avcon is a good solution. I use it every day.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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You could try what I did. I have a contactor on the negative lead of the
traction pack that is controlled by the key and another contactor on the
positive lead of the traction pack that is controlled by the Zilla
controller. The precharge circuit is only across the contactor on the
positive lead.
With the key off the traction pack is disconnected on both + & -
leads. There is a leakage path across the positive contactor provided by
the precharge circuit but no return path because the negative contactor
is open.
You would have to make c circuit to have the positive contactor latch
with an input from the key in the start position.
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bill Dennis
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:24 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Precharge Resistor Questions
I have a question about the Precharge Resistor for Curtis controllers
when
using two contactors, but first I want to verify I understand correctly
what
the resistor is doing.
Since the resistor is connected across the terminals of the contactor,
there
is a connection from the traction batteries to the Curtis controller
(i.e.,
a completed circuit) at all times when the battery pack is connected,
regardless of whether the key is on or not. This precharges the
capacitors
in the controller and keeps them that way even while the car is off. Is
that correct?
My question is: to provide extra safety in case a contactor were to
fail in
the on position, I'm considering putting two contactors in the circuit,
one
on the pack's positive side and one on the negative side--so should I
divide
the resistor's value by two and put half the ohms on each contactor?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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The PFC lit up without a load.
It lit the Red Safety LED at 450 volts... IT's Oh Crap! signal.
The Todd is good to about 200 volts.... OoooPS! Game over.
I try never to unload a Charger while it's on.
Firing up the charger without the Battery hooked up ... Is bad Juju.... It
happens, It has blow a few units. But they are getting to be very far and
few nowdays.
I lit my PFC30 up the other day, and forget to drop in the main, But I have
a DCP/DC/DC ... and it's good to 450 also. The the regular voltage control
circuit caught it. I got just a yellow and Blue.
A MOV would have to become active at less than 200 volt so save the Todd. If
I did a MOV in a charger... it would be to save the charger.... not the
Todd.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: WATTABMR- Damage report (safty ideas)
> Danny Ames wrote:
> > This concerns me as I also have a Todd and PFC.
> > I wonder what kind of safety device options are easy and simple?
> > ...is it feasible to use a voltage clamping device like a
> > varistor, is there even something bigger and watty enough to
> > handle that?
>
> A characteristic of a boost converter (like the PFC) is that if it loses
> its load at full power, the output voltage can overshoot severely. You
> have a big inductor, charged up to a high current. When the transistors
> in the PFC turn off, that inductive energy has to dump somewhere.
> Normally, it dumps into the load. With no load, it dumps into the output
> capacitors. This significantly raises the voltage on these capacitors
> (and anything else still connected, like perhaps your Todd).
>
> I'm sure Rich Rudman or Joe Smalley can tell you what measures are
> already inside the PFC to protect itself from this sort of event. They
> can also tell you the inductance of the boost inductor; by knowing that,
> and the current it is at when the fault occurs, we can calculate how
> many joules the MOV(s) on the output would need to be to handle it.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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