EV Digest 3908
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Precharge Resistor Questions
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Fw: Electric Porsche
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Measure Battery Interal Resistance
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Thank you!
by "Rmanzan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: marketing hydrogen, Now charger connection safety.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by "Arthur Matteson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Measure Battery Interal Resistance
by Steven Tweed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Car Title Help: WAS - RE: 1980 rabbit on the tradin' post,
Free! see below!
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Measure Battery Interal Resistance
by Andrew Paulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) how far can you really go
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Switched Capacitor Circuit for Charge Equalization
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: marketing hydrogen, Now charger connection safety.
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Modular Charger
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Modular Charger
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Precharge Resistor Questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: marketing hydrogen, really
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Car Weight Loss
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Plug for Grassroots EV Videos
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Speak of the devil!
I was looking at SSRs today, but having a helluva time finding exactly what I need:
5v trigger with less than 100 milliamp draw Normally closed can switch 100V 10A
I tried digikey, but they only showed one that was out of stock, and couldn't find anything in Mouser, though I probably am not looking properly, being new to the "find the component" game.
Does anyone know where I should look?
-Cristin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hi David and All, --- Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Isn't there some sort of problem with batteries and > salt water? I seem to Only if you put it on them and even then not much other than corroding the terminals off if submerged. Much harder on the wires, connections but all manageable. I've seen cars underwater with their lights on for hrs so damage takes a while. Thankfully we saved the 2 girls with our dinghies at the Las Olas bridge, anchorage in Ft Laud. If the batts are put in the keel for ballast, they should have raised batt box sides so bilge water can't get to them. > recall either explosions or poison gas. > David C. Wilker Jr. > USAF (RET) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:42 PM > Subject: RE: Electric Sailboat conversion > > > >I am not affiliated with them but, there is a > commercial company here in > > FL that installs electric drive systems in boats > (mostly sail). They are > > up near Tampa, in Tarpon Springs. The company is > Solomon Technologies > > (http://solomontechnologies.com/). But way too pricey for what you get. Any good PM motor and a Sevcon regen controller or others will do the same for a lot less costs. Or sep-excited would be even cheaper and do regen, charging. And without regen, a series motor will work quite well. As for motors on sailboats, if possible use them as outboards by mounting them on gas outboard legs and only put them down when needed for powering or charging. This allows you to sail a lot faster during those unneeded times and need the motor less often. 2 motors are nice but not nessasary if you are any good at boat handling. 1 is more eff anyway as less drag underwater and a larger prop for the same power out. ] > > > > They are installing BLDC motors and control > systems. The company went > > public last year and claims a lot of proprietary > technology; however, I > > have seen a couple of the catamarans they have > installed drives in and > > its all pretty straightforward stuff. They replace > the existing inboard > > engine(s) with a BLDC motor(s). Other than maybe > the motor itself, all > > the rest is off-the-shelf stuff for BLDC drives. > They claim special > > design considerations and magnet technology for > the motors. They do nice > > work though. They are currently working with two > cat builders to install > > the drives systems at the factories. This way you > could order the boat > > with an electric drive. The two-motor setup on the > cats is quite nice > > for maneuvering, two joystick controls make > docking easy! > > > One of the boats is built over in South Africa and > I talked to one of > > the crew members who sailed it over. They said > normally the diesel gen > > would run about 16 to 18hrs a day underway, with > the PV and regen off > > the motors under sail, the diesel only 4 to 6 hrs. Now that's sad with all the trade winds going their way!!! It's 20knots of wind on a beam reach or downwind for the whole trip from SAmerica. > He said they want to > > increase the battery pack capacity and they only > lost a little under a > > knot of speed dragging the props. Times about 1440hrs, 60 days, that adds up!!! Another 10 days longer! > > > > It's almost perfect, the ability to travel, > produce (or harness, in the > > case of sailboats) the energy for travel, and > recharge all with > > alternative / renewable energy. I agree. One way to get around the drag of the props is to set the speed you want to go by the regen controller and it will level out the speed you go by helpping when you slow down on the back side of a wave and charging going down the wave. Especially useful in a monohull at about 1.3x hull speed. jerry dycus > > > > Shawn Waggoner > > Florida EAA > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > Behalf Of MYLES ANTHONY TWETE > > Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 18:25 > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Electric Sailboat conversion (was: RE: I > love batts, Low > > costs!! was Re: I hate batteries, comments) > > > > Jerry Dycus stated: > >> So to conclude, while EV's and sailboats can cost > too much, they don't > > have to if done right. > > > > There's a growing number of sailboat owners who > are ditching their > > diesels in favor of going electric w/generator > backup. Several are > > using ETEK or ADC motors, 1 or 2 banks of batts at > 36-48v and a 2kw > > Honda EU2000i genset. Most of the discussions are > taking place on the > > Electricboating and the Electricboats Yahoo > Groups. Discussions also > > occur at the EBAA (Electric Boating Assoc. of > America) site. > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/ > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ElectricBoating/ > > http://www.eboat.org/forum/ > > > > These conversions are occurring for all the right > reasons: energy > > efficiency, reduced noise and vibration, cost > effectiveness and > > reliability. > > > > -Myles Twete, Electric Bargeboat "Reach of Tide" > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---At 8:54 PM -0800 11-11-04, Lee Hart wrote:
The problem with the Magnecharger is that it has a) a conventional 60hz transformer for isolation, b) a PFC stage, c) the inverter to drive the high frequency transformer's primary (the paddle), and d) another DC/DC in the car to transform the high frequency transformer's secondary voltage to whatever you really wanted for charging. Each stage costs you efficiency, and by the time they got done, there were enough parts in there to build *four* chargers!
Are you sure about that Lee? The one I took apart did not have a isolation transformer at all. Here are the boards: http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/EV1Charger/AllBoards.JPG
Also, I've heard (but have not seen) that the car side only has a half a transformer and rectifier for power parts, not a DC to DC system... I may be wrongly informed on that.
-- -Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla. http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Lee, about how long does it take for the capacitors to charge up using this method? I think there might have been some discussion about charging times here a couple of weeks ago, but I wasn't sure of the conclusion. Thanks. Bill Dennis -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lee Hart Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 9:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Precharge Resistor Questions Bill Dennis wrote: > ...Precharge Resistor for Curtis controllers... Since the resistor > is connected across the terminals of the contactor, there is a > connection from the traction batteries to the Curtis controller > (i.e. a completed circuit) at all times when the battery pack is > connected, regardless of whether the key is on or not. This > precharges the capacitors in the controller and keeps them that > way even while the car is off. Is that correct? Yes. It minimizes wear and tear on the contactors and capacitors. But it also means the controller has to withstand the peak charger voltage (which is significantly higher than pack voltage). If the charger is not isolated, it puts significant stress on the controller from powerline surges and transients. And, with the capacitors always charged, the motor can lurch forward if the accellerator pedal is pushed, using the stored energy in the capacitors. > My question is: To provide extra safety in case a contactor were > to fail in the on position, I'm considering putting two contactors > in the circuit, one on the pack's positive side and one on the > negative side. A good idea. This is how my EV is built. If one can't break the circuit, the other one will. > so should I divide the resistor's value by two and put half the > ohms on each contactor? You can. But, I put the precharge resistor across only the positive contactor. The starting sequence is then to a) close the negative side contactor, b) wait for the controller to precharge, c) then close the positive side contactor. You can accomplish the sequencing a number of ways; manually, or with time delay relays, or with a circuit that senses when the controller has been precharged. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Thanks for the great info. That's impressively light. The 912's were lighter than the later 911's. I hear you about doing something irreversible to the car. I haven't hit that point yet, it'll be tough! --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Is 2350 an actual weighed or estimated weight? > > That the real weight, and for me it was an eye opener , less weight > is > better that more power ( I know this is apples to oranges with no > numbers > attached. ) > > That seems pretty > > light, I was estimating my 911 with 13 Orbital would be maybe 150 > > lbs more than that. > > This is on a 68 912 body , > > Did the car have any special weight loss efforts, > > like fiberglass body panels? I see in the pics it might have > lighter > > than stock seats. > > > yes its got lots of fiberglass body parts , that's why it looks > like a 959, > I did the battery boxes with steel , so there could have been some > weight > saving there. > > > Similarly, is the 85 mph top speed verified? Seems it could go > even > > faster. > > > It has a vw tranny so the gearing might not let it , It has a 156v > 1200 amp > rapture in it > > > 50 miles range sounds pretty good, I realize this is probably a > best > > case number. > That's for sure , :-) . I one time told him that " its customary > for > electric car drivers to say there cars will go about 1/2 the > distance that > they can really could go so people won't we disappointed " I also > pointed > out that even though I'd driven my ev ranger (20 golf cart bats) 76 > miles in > a EV rally I only clam a 30 mile range. He pointed out that nobody > gets the > gas mileage the car company's post and nobody expects to , > > Did you ever get a chance to do a real life test on > > range? > You don't have to drive an ev 100 miles to find out if it will go > that far. > You can get this information for your amp meter , and its fun to do > . First > get the ev warmed up with a 5 miles run then slow down to a speed > you want > to investigate or pick a distance . for example my Mazda pickup at > 20 mph > will use 30 amp , so after 5 hours of driving I'll have used 150 ah > which > I'm pretty sure I'll get from my 6v golf cart batts with this slow > drawl. > Paul's car uses 15 amps to go 25mph so with the excides giving 30ah > that 2 > hours or 50 miles , > > > I'm leaning towards having about twice that number of > > batteries, a 100 mile range would be incredible, but probably too > > much to hope for. > > Its the old speed or range thing , hard to have both. another nice > thing > about a light ev is the handling , Paul's car is a lot of fun being > so light > , it fly's around corners and the weight being low with a little > more in the > front , putting more batteries in for better distance will cost in > speed and > handling. . > > > > > Of course, any generic advice for me is appreciated! Do you have > any > > "If I were going to do a 911 again..." kinds of comments? > > > If I were to do it again , I'd do it again and again :-) this is a > great car > to do , there is lots of room for batteries , good air dynamics , > brakes are > already over sized , and when your done , you have a very nice car. > The one > problem with doing a fine car like this is that its hard to jump in > there > with the cutting torch, sawsall and cut away. That feeling of "what > am I > doing" is a hard one to fight , . > Steve Clunn ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Is there an "easy" way to measure a battery's internal resistance? I am measuring the voltage drop with a variety of loads, but I cannot get a "definitive" answer. thanks Don See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ <outbind://65/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: Re: marketing hydrogen, really > > The paddle is a major efficientcy hit, and it is THE most complicted and > > expensive way to transfer electrical power from the Grid to the EV. > > Eh, I'll check my numbers, but since the MC includes the charger, the > regulators, and all the other love I'd have to include the overall > efficiency compared to a complete PFC. What's the wall-to-battery > efficiency of a PFC 30 (that's a 6kw charger)? > I ran a new PFC30 this morning and got 93.7 Wall to load bank(prgrammable battery). I was stunned to find that 400 to 600 more watts made it to the load meter for the same line current. I had to check the line V just to make sure. 30.1 amps of line had been making 6100 watts, now it's making 6500 to 6600. APT forgot to tell me they were improving the IGBTs...at the expense of the Gate capcitance... this hosed the Negative drive supply... After a week of tearing out my hair and Spanking Joe with scope shots, that I have never seen before..... Not only do the IGBT take more gate turn off snort, they return about a %7 increase in efficientcy. NOW the PFC30s can go nose to nose with the PFC50s for watts in to watts out. Anything that needs 10,200 RPM fan speeds is NOT really eff... the rectifier modules... the last AC to DC convert on the toaster side in the car.. has twin 60mm fans one runs at 6000 rpm and the other at 10,200. I have one corpse here ... Then again... my stuff... even the PFC50s are not rated to 25Kw.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- :))
<<attachment: Price.scr>>
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--- Begin Message ---As I recall, when originally proposed the MagneCharger system was supposed to be able to work with any voltage. Somehow when GM implemented it, they ended up only able to support high voltage EVs. AFAIK it can't be used with anything more reasonable.
In looking at the programming, it should be able to support any type of set voltages. I suppose the best way to test would be to get another MC paddle port and EV200 core.
BTW, several years ago I fitted my Civic EV conversion with an Avcon receptacle. That proved handy, NOT. The only Avcon charge point in the Kansas City area is in my garage. I am considering switching it back to the male 240V 30A twist lock it originally had.
*nod* Regardless of the presence of the MC I like to keep the Dolphin's 110/220 charger as a backup. Slow as dirt, but gentle on the batteries (as is the MC now, limited to 6-7a charge rate)
Now if only I could find a small 240-208 transformer 4kw for isolation and to step down household voltage to something more gentle on the Dolphin.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---What I need:
5v trigger with less than 100 milliamp draw Normally closed can switch 100V 10A
I tried digikey, but they only showed one that was out of stock...
Digi-Key has quite a few relays to choose from. I'm looking at page 1183 (http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T043/1183.pdf) of the new catalog or 1085 of an old. I think the 425-1254-5 would satisfy your requirements. It has a "zero-cross circuit" and can switch 16A at 420RMS AC volts. Since it's a triac you'll need to continuously apply at least 25mA of load in order for it to stay on (experts please clarify this since triacs are behind my time). This is probably true in a situation you would want this relay for. Its input is an LED; put a 100 ohm resistor in series with it to limit current to 40mA at a 5V input. It is $7.00 and in stock.
couldn't find anything in Mouser, though I probably am not looking properly, being new to the "find the component" game.
Does anyone know where I should look?
#1. Obtain a catalog for each distributor (maybe even manufacturer) you want to consider buying from. To help you decide, distributors usually have a Line Card to showcase which manufacturers they carry. It is Digi-Key's first page. After a while you may find you have luck with certain companies' products - mine are TI and IR - so choose the distributors that carry all of what you want. I use DKC (Digi-Key Corp.) primarily for my electronics, and All Electronics is my second-most-common.
#2. Shy away from parametric searches. They don't usually have enough intelligence to sort out the right products and are often based on text comparisons as opposed to numerical comparisons. This is especially true for DKC. If you don't have a copy of the free catalog, use the Product Index (relays would be here http://dkc1.digikey.com/US/PDF/T043/P5.html).
#3. The index is a good start for finding something, true for at least DKC. They have sections as well, so you automatically know sort of where to start. Just browse through to get a feeling for the tables and organization; every distributor is different. After a while you will get very quick at finding a component.
#4. I generally find it isn't worth it to do price comparisons between distributors, and I usually just buy everything from the same place. I spend more time weighing the actual components. After all, if your product succeeds, you will have to order a bunch more anyway.
Good luck!
Arthur Matteson
- Custom Auto Electronics - Jackson, MI
- '80 Lectric Leopard, 'Little Homebrew AC'
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/awmatt
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Wow that's what I call regen. One thing that a company like this might have an advantage is if the systim works well and lasts they might know a thing or two about electrolisis and it's negetive effects. Trickly little things like effectively stopping it is a big plus for any electric system on a boat in salt water. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- What causes explosions on boats is gasoline. That's why they use diesel. Diesel smells so electric is a real joy. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
Isn't there some sort of problem with batteries and salt water? I seem to recall either explosions or poison gas.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: Electric Sailboat conversion
I am not affiliated with them but, there is a commercial company here in FL that installs electric drive systems in boats (mostly sail). They are up near Tampa, in Tarpon Springs. The company is Solomon Technologies (http://solomontechnologies.com/).
They are installing BLDC motors and control systems. The company went public last year and claims a lot of proprietary technology; however, I have seen a couple of the catamarans they have installed drives in and its all pretty straightforward stuff. They replace the existing inboard engine(s) with a BLDC motor(s). Other than maybe the motor itself, all the rest is off-the-shelf stuff for BLDC drives. They claim special design considerations and magnet technology for the motors. They do nice work though. They are currently working with two cat builders to install the drives systems at the factories. This way you could order the boat with an electric drive. The two-motor setup on the cats is quite nice for maneuvering, two joystick controls make docking easy!
The boats still require a generator to keep the batteries topped off and run all the heavy loads like reefers and A/C, but you can drag the props under sail and use the motor to regen and charge the batteries as well. Some builders are installing larger PV arrays to help with the recharging.
One of the boats is built over in South Africa and I talked to one of the crew members who sailed it over. They said normally the diesel gen would run about 16 to 18hrs a day underway, with the PV and regen off the motors under sail, the diesel only 4 to 6 hrs. He said they want to increase the battery pack capacity and they only lost a little under a knot of speed dragging the props.
It's almost perfect, the ability to travel, produce (or harness, in the case of sailboats) the energy for travel, and recharge all with alternative / renewable energy.
Shawn Waggoner Florida EAA
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MYLES ANTHONY TWETE Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 18:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Electric Sailboat conversion (was: RE: I love batts, Low costs!! was Re: I hate batteries, comments)
Jerry Dycus stated:So to conclude, while EV's and sailboats can cost too much, they don'thave to if done right.
There's a growing number of sailboat owners who are ditching their diesels in favor of going electric w/generator backup. Several are using ETEK or ADC motors, 1 or 2 banks of batts at 36-48v and a 2kw Honda EU2000i genset. Most of the discussions are taking place on the Electricboating and the Electricboats Yahoo Groups. Discussions also occur at the EBAA (Electric Boating Assoc. of America) site.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ElectricBoating/ http://www.eboat.org/forum/
These conversions are occurring for all the right reasons: energy efficiency, reduced noise and vibration, cost effectiveness and reliability.
-Myles Twete, Electric Bargeboat "Reach of Tide"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Perhaps it was the salt water mixing with the electrolyte and producing chlorine gas, then.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
What causes explosions on boats is gasoline. That's why they use diesel. Diesel smells so electric is a real joy. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Sailboat conversion
Isn't there some sort of problem with batteries and salt water? I seem to recall either explosions or poison gas.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: Electric Sailboat conversion
I am not affiliated with them but, there is a commercial company here in FL that installs electric drive systems in boats (mostly sail). They are up near Tampa, in Tarpon Springs. The company is Solomon Technologies (http://solomontechnologies.com/).
They are installing BLDC motors and control systems. The company went public last year and claims a lot of proprietary technology; however, I have seen a couple of the catamarans they have installed drives in and its all pretty straightforward stuff. They replace the existing inboard engine(s) with a BLDC motor(s). Other than maybe the motor itself, all the rest is off-the-shelf stuff for BLDC drives. They claim special design considerations and magnet technology for the motors. They do nice work though. They are currently working with two cat builders to install the drives systems at the factories. This way you could order the boat with an electric drive. The two-motor setup on the cats is quite nice for maneuvering, two joystick controls make docking easy!
The boats still require a generator to keep the batteries topped off and run all the heavy loads like reefers and A/C, but you can drag the props under sail and use the motor to regen and charge the batteries as well. Some builders are installing larger PV arrays to help with the recharging.
One of the boats is built over in South Africa and I talked to one of the crew members who sailed it over. They said normally the diesel gen would run about 16 to 18hrs a day underway, with the PV and regen off the motors under sail, the diesel only 4 to 6 hrs. He said they want to increase the battery pack capacity and they only lost a little under a knot of speed dragging the props.
It's almost perfect, the ability to travel, produce (or harness, in the case of sailboats) the energy for travel, and recharge all with alternative / renewable energy.
Shawn Waggoner Florida EAA
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MYLES ANTHONY TWETE Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 18:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Electric Sailboat conversion (was: RE: I love batts, Low costs!! was Re: I hate batteries, comments)
Jerry Dycus stated:So to conclude, while EV's and sailboats can cost too much, they don'thave to if done right.
There's a growing number of sailboat owners who are ditching their diesels in favor of going electric w/generator backup. Several are using ETEK or ADC motors, 1 or 2 banks of batts at 36-48v and a 2kw Honda EU2000i genset. Most of the discussions are taking place on the Electricboating and the Electricboats Yahoo Groups. Discussions also occur at the EBAA (Electric Boating Assoc. of America) site.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electricboats/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ElectricBoating/ http://www.eboat.org/forum/
These conversions are occurring for all the right reasons: energy efficiency, reduced noise and vibration, cost effectiveness and reliability.
-Myles Twete, Electric Bargeboat "Reach of Tide"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---The only way I know if for determining internal cell resistance is to apply a known load to the cell and calculate internal cell resistance by determining the voltage drop at that current. I have a couple of Alber Cellcorders that we use for large stationary battery testing that do this operation (plus more). If you're around the Madison Wisconsin area I'd be glad to do some testing for you. Steve -----Original Message----- From: Don Cameron To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/11/2004 11:15 PM Subject: Measure Battery Interal Resistance Is there an "easy" way to measure a battery's internal resistance? I am measuring the voltage drop with a variety of loads, but I cannot get a "definitive" answer. thanks Don See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ <outbind://65/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---I have one, Crydom D4840 SSR, 3-32V trigger, up to 480Vac operation at 40A. $15 plus shipping. Rod --- cristin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Speak of the devil! > > I was looking at SSRs today, but having a helluva > time finding exactly > what I need: > > 5v trigger with less than 100 milliamp draw > Normally closed > can switch 100V 10A > > I tried digikey, but they only showed one that was > out of stock, and > couldn't find anything in Mouser, though I probably > am not looking > properly, being new to the "find the component" > game. > > Does anyone know where I should look? > > -Cristin > >
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--- Begin Message --->I would be highly interested in buying this car as my first road >EV and have talked/emailed with Seth several times last week. Unfortunately >Seth doesn't have a title and I can neither register nor scrap >a vehicle without a title in Virginia (so what would I do with >the empty shell if I did transplant the stuff?). Ideally I >would like to play with the EV components in the current car >and drive it over the winter for very brief trips before >I tackle a transplant next spring. What you'll probably have to do is fill out the Affidavit in Lieu of Title, get it notarized, provide a Bill of Sale, and possibly fill out some other forms. Ask the DMV for details. I wouldn't bother with all that if the car is in bad shape, since you'd have to get it inspected to drive it. If it isn't likely to pass inspection, I would just buy it for parts and have a junkyard pick up the body when you're done with it (they can get a salvage title for it). David Thompson
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--- Begin Message ---The normal procedure, at least for R/C batteries, is to measure the voltage and current at two different loads. Call it, (V1,I1) and (V2,I2). Then R=dV/dI=(V1-V2)/(I2-I1). The derivative (subtraction) is needed to eliminate the load resistance from the answer. Andrew P On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 22:15:33 -0800, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there an "easy" way to measure a battery's internal resistance? I am > measuring the voltage drop with a variety of loads, but I cannot get a > "definitive" answer. > > thanks > > Don > > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ > <outbind://65/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/> > >
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--- Begin Message ---In researching the web, I stumbled across a paper called "Switched Capacitor System for Automatic Series Battery Equalization", located on: http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/batteq1.pdf I looked through the archives but could not find any reference to anyone using this type of a circuit for battery balancing. Has anyone tried this? The company Smart Spark Energy builds a unit, but appears only for OEM use. Don
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--- Begin Message ---I was thinking about the distance thing and how the numbers are all over the place , when somebody says 40 mile range you have to know the speed , ect. What about using the distance a car can go in one hour as a bench mark. This number would be easy to find. Take your batteries ah number at a c1 (or is that 1c) drawl and drive your car using that many amps . for example my Mazda pu with golf cart batteries would give 110 ah and driving at 110 would go 45mph so I could say it will go 45 miles in a hour or 45MIAH . My Porsche 924 with excides gives 30ah and will go 35mph on 30 amps so that would be 35miah. could write 35mph/1c . Steve Clunn
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--- Begin Message ---A good friend of mine is working on that system. Last time we talked he's not using it on EV size batteries yet. I'll let the list know when they start doing extensive testing with larger batteries. Rod --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In researching the web, I stumbled across a paper > called "Switched Capacitor > System for Automatic Series Battery Equalization", > located on: > http://www.smartsparkenergy.com/pdf/batteq1.pdf > > I looked through the archives but could not find any > reference to anyone > using this type of a circuit for battery balancing. > Has anyone tried this? > The company Smart Spark Energy builds a unit, but > appears only for OEM use. > > > Don > > >
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--- Begin Message -------- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Now if only I could find a small 240-208 transformer 4kw for isolation > and to step down household voltage to something more gentle on the Dolphin. > > Chris > I have 2 very big isolation transformers which I think are rated at 150 amps , My ev ranger is up where your at and needs a ride home , how about a trade? These where in a back up ups for the police station ,
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--- Begin Message ---Hi folks,
Who is using modular chargers (one charger per battery) and how well have they worked out? After playing all kinds of games with battery management systems (Ruman Mk1s, PowerCheqs) I have been dreaming of the simplicity of letting each battery have its own charger. My thoughts go like this:
Bulk charge using a large series charger (in my case a Zivan NG5 but could be some big crude off board thing as well). Shutdown the charger using the low battery alarm circuit on the E-meter when batteries are charged to 95%. Then the little individual charger take over (say 5 amp units) and handle the last 5% charge. Each battery gets just what it needs, and no battery gets over charged. Away from home opportunity charging, just use the little guys.
So what do you think? Anyone know a good source for a capable 12 volt 5 amp automatic charger at a good price?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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--- Begin Message ---cristin wrote: > I was looking at SSRs today, but having a helluva time finding > exactly what I need: > > 5v trigger with less than 100 milliamp draw > Normally closed > can switch 100V 10A Normally closed is rare; almost all are normally open. Also why only 100v? Are you switching DC? Most SSR "contacts" are AC only, and so come in 120vac, 240vac, 480vac etc. voltage ratings. If you want DC "contacts" and normally-closed, that is your problem; you're looking for two uncommon options at once. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---On Fri, 2004-11-12 at 10:16, Mike Chancey wrote: > Who is using modular chargers (one charger per battery) and how well have > they worked out? After playing all kinds of games with battery management > systems (Ruman Mk1s, PowerCheqs) I have been dreaming of the simplicity of > letting each battery have its own charger. My thoughts go like this: Didn't Jason Hills' MR2 use modular Zapi chargers? IIRC he reported rapid failure of his Optimas. I think the challenge is find a small, affordable _smart_ charger. Most small chargers are pretty dumb. Mark
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--- Begin Message ---Otmar wrote: > Are you sure about that Lee? > The one I took apart did not have a isolation transformer at all. > Here are the boards: > http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/EV1Charger/AllBoards.JPG They look like they are from the little 1.4kw portable unit. I was referring to the big 6.6kw and 50kw units. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Bill Dennis wrote: > Lee, about how long does it take for the capacitors to charge up? It depends on the controller; different brands and models have different amounts of capacitance. For example, the Curtis 1221-1231 series controllers have around 10,000uF as I recall. If you use the 250 ohm resistor Curtis suggests, the time to charge is about T = R x C = 250ohm x 0.01farad = 2.5 seconds. In this time, the voltage rises about 2/3rds of the way (i.e. on a 120v pack, it rises from 0 to 80v in 2.5 seconds). It rises another 2/3rd of the remaining voltage (120v-80v=40v to go) in the next 2.5 sec (i.e. from 80v to 105v in the next 2.5 sec). So after two time constants (5 sec) you are essentially there. If 5 seconds is too long, you can decrease the resistor value. However, it will get *hot* you leave it on all the time, and if the controller ever fails to precharge, it will likely burn up. An alternative I like is to use a light bulb as the precharge resistor. When cold, their resistance is very low, so they precharge faster. if the controller fails to precharge, the light bulb lights up as an indicator. Its resistance also goes up dramatically, so it self-limits the current. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---Correct. The 6.6 unit weighs a small ton. It's got iron in there.
Chris
They look like they are from the little 1.4kw portable unit. I was referring to the big 6.6kw and 50kw units.
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--- Begin Message ---This is a nice article on lightening a car: http://www.hotrod.com/howto/113_0310_loseii/index.html ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
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--- Begin Message ---Disclaimer: I have no financial interest in the success or failure of GrassrootsEV. I got some of Steve Clunn's videos http://www.grassrootsev.com . Great stuff! Even if you are buying professionally made parts (best thing for most people to do), I think they are still good to watch. You'll learn how the things go together, what is critical, and some tricks that can save money. Think of them as kind of like this discussion list with pictures. ===== __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
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