EV Digest 3924
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Quick switch question
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: High Capacity Li-Polymer Cells
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Basic controller question
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re; Line stabilizer, transformers eff questions
by "Jim Waite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Basic controller question
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Basic controller question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Quick switch question
by "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Quick switch question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New electric mass transit system proposed
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: spam: RE: EVDL poll where do you live ?
by David Amies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EVDL poll where do you live ?
by David Amies <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: spam: RE: EVDL poll where do you live ?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Alignment, vibration, U-joints, etc.
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) 200sx conversion Q&A's
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Basic controller question
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Recognizing excellence in our EV Album. Thanks, Mike!
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Quick switch question
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Basic controller question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Complicated NiCad charging?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Basic controller question
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Hybrid compared to EV in fuel cost. (Going OT)
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Hybrid compared to EV in fuel cost. (Going OT)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Basic controller question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) EV's + on TV Alert, PBS Great Cars series
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Basic controller question
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) AC-DC/DC converters
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: Basic controller question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Optima Group 31 amp/hr & E-Meter
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Basic controller question
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Basic controller question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Question: If I need a SPDT switch, and someone makes a DPDT switch that
I like, can I solder and wire across the poles and center points of the
switch making it able to carry twice as much current?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
4.5V/cell max is at the extsreme end of the graph at -18 deg C. What they
don't say, is that it is likely the internal cell temperature that matters
and not the ambient air temperature, anyway, that is what I think. So if
you just got home from driving the car (pickup) and put it on charge, even
in cold weather you are likely to require maximum voltages in the range of
4.25 to 4.35V/cell, since the cells should usually be a lot warmer than the
outside air temp at this time. (I am just going to go outside and look at
mine to see how it is doing at end of charge and -1 deg C ambient.) If you
leave the batteries unheated and unused for a couple of weeks, and you want
to charge them at -20deg C, it may be better to turn on the battery heaters
for a few hours first, and then charge at a more "normal" voltage range.
Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: High Capacity Li-Polymer Cells
Doug Hartley wrote:
With this shipment I received a very attractive packet of sales
literature/data sheets, showing all the TS batteries and vehicles they
make. It included graphs showing the temperature characteristic of
charging (6.75mV increase in charge voltage per deg. C drop in
temperature, graph starting from 4.25V per cell at 20 deg C, down to -18
deg. C requiring 4.50V) and discharging temperature characteristic
(20mV drop per deg. C reduction in temperature, showing from 3.0V at 20
deg. C to 2.0V at -30 deg. C ambient temperature).
Best Regards,
Doug
I did receive it too - the first time I sewe temp compensation
requirements. But, we will question
TS about validity of this data, especially suggested charging at above
4.5V (if I remember) at cold temps.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will a permanent magnet motor controller (Curtis PMC) operate a series wound
motor?
The motor to be driven is a GE 9.9kw series wound from a forklift.
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jerry,
My guess is it's an SCR (or triac)-controlled multi-tap autotransformer
(although "tap
switchers" can be either an isolated primary/secondary xfmr or a non-isolated
autotransformer).
See pg 4 for a brief explanation and discussion of the types and expected
efficiency:
http://www.electro-meters.com/Assets/PDF_files/Superior/whrcat.pdf
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought PMC stood for permanent magnet controller, but I am not sure now. I
am still wondering what my options are as far as controllers, and the ones that
are designed for motors with only two connections.
D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Will a permanent magnet motor controller
(Curtis PMC) operate a series wound motor?
The motor to be driven is a GE 9.9kw series wound from a forklift.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Discover all that�s new in My Yahoo!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Discover all that�s new in My Yahoo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"PMC" has nothing to do with the type of motor the unit controls. These
initials date from Curtis's past - I think they were the initials of the
controllers' designers. PMC used to manufacture road EV controllers in the
1970s and 80s. Curtis bought them out, in the early 1980s IIRC. Some of
the long-time EV parts dealers here probably have more accurate information
on this history.
What model of Curtis controller do you have?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a
little longer.
-- Henry Kissinger
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Question: If I need a SPDT switch, and someone makes a DPDT switch that
> I like, can I solder and wire across the poles and center points of the
> switch making it able to carry twice as much current?
Quick answer... yes. Switch contacts in parallel that are operated
simultaneously can generally be wired in parallel to carry twice the
current.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sort of.... You will need to make sure the current shares well between the
two contacts in parallel. If you use short wires, any resistance on one
contact will transfer current to the other contact causing it to be
overloaded. Using equal length and longer wires will make the contacts share
current much better allowing the pair to carry a larger percentage of the
total rated current .
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:10 PM
Subject: Quick switch question
> Question: If I need a SPDT switch, and someone makes a DPDT switch that
> I like, can I solder and wire across the poles and center points of the
> switch making it able to carry twice as much current?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pretty neat idea - 4-seat monorails that go a computer-controlled 180mph on the
"El", but get fully-charged nEV drives attached underneath when they come back
"to land".
Their calculator shows only 13.5sq ft frontal area, 0.09 Cd, and 300lb weight,
but that's just for the high-speed pod - looks like all the nEV power system
slips in below the centerline: http://www.tritrack.net/powermodes.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, Maybe you want to look into using PHP to create those Gifs.
here's an example you can use, you just need a web server with php.
Dave
http://amies.no-ip.com/dev/test/imagetest2.php?
addr=ten[dot]no[dot]edonretni[at]ad
======================php code======================
<?php
if ($_GET['addr'] != "") {
$msg = $_GET['addr'];
$msg = preg_replace("/\[dot]/",".",$msg);
$msg = preg_replace("/\[at]/","@",$msg);
$final = "";
for ($i=0; $i<=strlen($msg); $i++) {
$final .= substr($msg, strlen($msg)-$i, 1);
}
$msg = $final;
$im = @imagecreate (120, 20)
or die ("Cannot Initialize new GD image stream");
$background_color = imagecolorallocate ($im, 200, 200, 200);
$text_color = imagecolorallocate ($im, 0, 0, 255);
imagestring ($im, 1, 5, 5, $msg, $text_color);
} else {
$im = imagecreatetruecolor(1,1);
imagealphablending($im, FALSE);
imagesavealpha($im, TRUE);
$bg = imagecolorallocatealpha($im, 255, 0, 0, 125);
imagefilledrectangle ($im, 0, 0, 1, 1, $bg); # Make transparent
}
header ("Content-type: image/png");
imagepng ($im);
?>
======================php code======================
On 8 Nov 2004, at 11:35, Mike Chancey wrote:
Ken Trough wrote:
I'm going to create a global map with names and email addresses. I'll
post a link when I'm done.
PLEASE use some sort of encryption on the email addresses. That kind
of email list is just the thing spam-bots look for. On the EV Album
the email addresses are shown as gif images rather than plain text.
This hides them from spam-bots. It is a pain to make all those gifs,
but it does the job. There are other more advanced methods, but that
is the one I use.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also Brisbane, Australia.
Brian where in Brisbane are you? I'm In Tingalpa (4173). Do you have an
EV? I don't but would like to.
Dave.
On 7 Nov 2004, at 16:41, Brian Hay wrote:
Brisbane,
Australia.
--
Regards,
Brian Hay.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://amies.no-ip.com/dev/test/imagetest2.php?
addr=ten[dot]no[dot]edonretni[at]ad
That's really clever David! Thanks for the tip.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:21 PM
Subject: RE: Alignment, vibration, U-joints, etc.
>
> >Was reading about some people who had problems with flywheel vibration
> >after
> >machining an adapter plate, blah blah. Seems this is a common.
>
> This is not a common problem. We've sold hundreds of adaptors, and I
can't
> recall ever having vibration as an issue.
I think its a little like making your own motor controller , you do it for
the fun and learning , you don't expect the first to work perfect the
first time .
If you want to avoid the hassle
> and expense of tooling, and don't feel your machining and other skills are
> up to the job, buy a professionally made adaptor.
This will get the job done , so you can move on to the next thing. I bought
my first adaptor plate form Electro Automotive over 10 years ago and it is a
work of art , worked perfect and is still working in Paul's 959 Porsche.
The other side of the coin is when you have the parts ( going from one ev to
another) , don't have a lot of money , have the time , lathe , torch and
arc welder , using my trick to line the motor to the tranny it can be done.
here are a few pic's of ones I've done
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/406i.jpg
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/500m.jpg
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/244d.jpg
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/388j.jpg
Steve Clunn
www.grassrootsev.com
> Shari Prange
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and everyone else,
My EV Album page is a bit outdated. I've been meaning to e-mail Mike to
have it changed. The 200sx has the following specs:
Motor: Prestolite MTC-4001
Controller: Zilla Z1K
Batteries: 12 Exide Orbital 34XCD
System Voltage: 144V
Charger: PFC-20
Heater: 2 -1500W Ceramic Elements
DC/DC: 2 Iota 55 amp supplies in parallel for a total of 110 amps
Curb Weight: 2850 (I don't know where the 1850 came from! A mistake I
think).
Conversion Cost: Around $7500
OT: Ryan, I've taken an interest to your 200SX. How much
weight have you been able to remove from it?
I apologize to anyone who had tried to follow my conversion site. I've
had to choose between getting the conversion done or spending time
documenting what I've done so far. I chose to get it done, and then
complete the conversion site. Only so much time available with a
family, going to school, and working
As you see from the specs above, the weight listed on the EV album page
was wrong. 1850 lbs would be awesome! Car weight with driver as per
the truck stop scale was 2820 a couple days before really starting the
conversion. I'd suggest to anyone converting a car to do this - I even
wish I'd gone to two different scales to be completely sure. Here's the
math on my estimated final EV weight:
2820 - 380 (underhood stuff) - 30 (gas tank) - 90 (full tank of gas) -
25 (exhaust) - 20 (rear seats) = 2275
2275 + 100 (motor) + 30 (adapter & coupler) + 20 (AC/PS mount) + 15
(accessory motor) + 30 (Zilla + other electronics) + 492 (batteries) +
20 (charger) + 30 (cables, lugs, terminals) + 25 (battery rack) + 30
(misc. stuff) = 3067 lbs (again, that's with the driver, ~165
lbs).......ouch. That's the first time I've done that whole exercise.
Those are all estimates though. The final word will be when I go drive
back to the scale.
0-60 in 7.5
seconds seems really quick for a 120V conversion and a Zilla
1k, I'd figure you'd need at least 156V to achieve that in
an 1,850 pound car. Maybe it's time for me to do some
calculations on the Pestolite motor.
Well, I could be dreaming. I've had a hard time weaseling 0-60
estimates out of other people based on my system. I guess the ultimate
test will be when I drive it. That should be soon :) I could get 0-60
in about 11 seconds with the original turbo ICE. I'm hoping for at
least that, and hopefully better. Anyone care to share any guesses on this??
Also, do you have a breakdown of all the parts you are
planning? $7,000 seems pretty cheap, or does that count in
the grants you are going for?
I won't give a specific cost breakdown, or I might get scared at what
I've actually spent! But opening my money tracking program and pulling
up all costs for the EV, it is in the $7000 range as it stands right
now. I got my motor from Bob Boyd who was selling it on eBay about a
year ago. That is what tipped me over the edge and made me do it. Who
could resist such a great deal on a motor (< $700!). I've bought some
things on eBay, asked parts suppliers for bulk discounts, pulled some
other strings, found good deals, and done most everything I could do on
my own (welding (okay, so my brother actually did this for me as well as
some painting), battery box fabrication, etc.). There are some cheaper
options available for conversions under 156V. Cheaper Zilla, cheaper
DC/DC, etc. My figures don't count in grant(s).
If anyone has any questions, let me know. There could be some error in
the numbers I gave, but it's all pretty close.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
5% off all items in our Top-Line Shop from November to Christmas!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I keep seeing controllers like this on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26222&item=3853455831&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Is their only disadvantage the 48 volt top end?
David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"PMC" has nothing to do with the type of motor the unit controls. These
initials date from Curtis's past - I think they were the initials of the
controllers' designers. PMC used to manufacture road EV controllers in the
1970s and 80s. Curtis bought them out, in the early 1980s IIRC. Some of
the long-time EV parts dealers here probably have more accurate information
on this history.
What model of Curtis controller do you have?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a
little longer.
-- Henry Kissinger
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
---------------------------------
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Meet the all-new My Yahoo! � Try it today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey all,
I just sent Mike some pics that I have twin prints
of, so that my CivicWithACord's page can be updated. I
wanted to suggest that each one of us who has a page
maintained by Mike remember to "gift" him with a small
donation.
I think his site speaks more about the reasons we
should do this than I could, but the fact is, he
doesn't charge us a dime, and the Album and Trading
Post are FANTASTIC. How many of us have bought via
the post? Sold by it? How many of us have suggested
to a friend that they look on the 'Post or Album to
get more information?
I know we all are sinking our $$ into our projects,
but I'm leading by example, and sending in some gravy
when I update. Each one of us, whether EEs, MEs, or
welders, know that our time is valuable. Mike's been
to gracious to charge us thus far, doing it for the
good of the cause. Who knows, maybe it can cover the
cost of a new pack o' batteries for him!
gratefully,
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not a good idea, because the contacts are rated for a certain amperage, and
will tend to burn if the load is not shared equally. And I don't know of a
good way to ensure that the load will be shared.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:10 PM
Subject: Quick switch question
> Question: If I need a SPDT switch, and someone makes a DPDT switch that
> I like, can I solder and wire across the poles and center points of the
> switch making it able to carry twice as much current?
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I keep seeing controllers like this on ebay.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26222&item=3853455831&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
>
> Is their only disadvantage the 48 volt top end?
>
It's an older model, but if correctly reconditioned, it should work as well as
any other. Always makes me hesitant to bid when the shipping cost is jacked up,
though. Doesn't Alltrax make a 48-72V version that can be cranked as high as
650A? Anyone know the price on that model?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, seems there is a problem parallel charging NiCads. Is this at the
begining charge or end charge. If I seperately charge the NiCads to a point
at what point can they be paralleled if any? (I am thinking a three Variac
setup might be needed.) Seems regen might be a problem. Lawrence
Rhodes............
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is a variety of EV motor controllers for sale, AllTrax, Curtis, Zilla-
12v to 48v-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?id=262
48v to 72v-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?id=272
72v to 348v-
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?id=277
To get an idea of what others have used to convert to EV,
There are hundreds of converted vehicles of all descriptions here with
photos and specs-
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
HTH!
> I keep seeing controllers like this on ebay.
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26222&item=3853455831&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
>
> Is their only disadvantage the 48 volt top end?
>
It's an older model, but if correctly reconditioned, it should work as well
as
any other. Always makes me hesitant to bid when the shipping cost is jacked
up,
though. Doesn't Alltrax make a 48-72V version that can be cranked as high
as
650A? Anyone know the price on that model?
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 07:21:21AM -0800, Edward Ang wrote:
> So, everytime you use the pack
> energy, you are wasting a lot more when the ICE tries
> to recharge it later.
I suspect you're right, but it's kind of a game to see how much I can
do pure electric despite their efforts.
> You get better MPG if you keep a moderate
> acceleration. This way only the ICE is being used to
> accelerate. Also, an ICE is most efficient if it is
> heavily loaded.
The Escape has a tach that the Prius I rented didn't, and it's been too
long that I don't remember the sound of the Prius, but the Escape is not
at all afraid to red-line the engine. The CVT is definitely set up to
run the engine at the RPMs you need for the power you're asking for, but
I would think it's got to suck for mileage. On the other hand, I would
hope their engineers know where the engine is most efficient for the
power setting, and fuel injected doesn't have the same considerations
that carbuerated does...
> sometimes have to push the EV mode button I installed
> to force the ICE to shut off under these situations.
I have a two mile commute, so the engine gets warmed up enough to shut
off about the time I get there. I really hope there's a hidden ev mode
option waiting to be discovered in the Escape. Or that there will be one
in the Highlander...
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
The voters have spoken. Let's hope we survive the result.
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: NickLondon81
<<The Escape has a tach that the Prius I rented didn't, and it's been too
long that I don't remember the sound of the Prius, but the Escape is not
at all afraid to red-line the engine. The CVT is definitely set up to
run the engine at the RPMs you need for the power you're asking for, but
I would think it's got to suck for mileage. On the other hand, I would
hope their engineers know where the engine is most efficient for the
power setting, and fuel injected doesn't have the same considerations
that carbuerated does...>>
I recently went to a hybrid car service seminar.
The guy said that if you floorboard a new Prius, the RPM will jump to and stay
at 2300 RPM untill the car reaches the governed speed, 94 MPH.
If he was correct, I dont see much use for a tach...
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Here is a variety of EV motor controllers for sale, AllTrax, Curtis, Zilla-
>
...or, for that matter (if you like to shop around),
http://www.cloudelectric.com/category.html?UCIDs=1215202 (but no price posted
on this size of SRE unit)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
Was watching TV when a commerical came on
and surfed over to PBS and the what normally was a
series about car makes and their history, had a great
show.
It was about the Bibibium? Challenge and has
many different types of alt fueled cars. Including the
T-Zero, Zap's mini-car like NEV.
A high point was in a 2 sec shot showed Dr
Porsche's early hybrid car's rear hub motor wheel!!!!
If anyone has details, pics on this cool EV wheel
motor please share them!!! It looked a lot like an
E-tek with the brushes on the rim edge.
If someone could pick the pic off the
program would be cool.
It played at 5pm EST here in Tampa but may
play at other times in your area.
I think the URL is www.greatcarstv.com
Enjoy,
jerry dycus
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I have done some research, and have been to all the sites you guys listed. I
would naturally take the route advised by the vendors on the sites, and do the
normal routine most others have done on their project sites, if I had enough
money to spend. I am trying to save as much money as possible for the
batteries.
Most guys are running at least 96 volts and up. I thought I would have to do
the same. But the more research I do, the more I learn that there is just too
many variables to know what my particular set-up will need. I would like to be
able to achieve 55mph. I have learned that less load on my series motor, means
it will turn faster. I have also did some research on field weakening, which
will make the motor go faster. The car I am using is a 86 chevette with a 4
speed. I plan on using the clutch, and shifting gears as much as possible to
keep the amp draw down.
I had made up my mind that I was going to use a contactor/diode series parallel
setup for the controller. It has 12, 24, and then 48v steps. I would need 3
contactors for speed control, and 1 for the main. I have these. But I also
need 7, 250 amp diodes, 6 for the control and one to clamp the motor winding.
I only have two of these, and have found they can be quite expensive. There
are a few on ebay, but then you add up the cost, and thats when I re-visited
the Curtis and other 48 volt controllers. And that's what started the original
question; "Can I jump the series motor connections, S2 to A2, and then hook S1
and A1 to a controller that only has two connections for the motor instead of
3?"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Here is a variety of EV motor controllers for sale, AllTrax, Curtis, Zilla-
>
...or, for that matter (if you like to shop around),
http://www.cloudelectric.com/category.html?UCIDs=1215202 (but no price posted
on this size of SRE unit)
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Hi Boys & Girls,
This may be common knowledge or I may have found A useful source of DC/DC
converters that have been overlooked. I recently Zorched the Vicor DC/DC I was
using and have been looking for a DC/DC that would accommodate the 228 V
traction pack in my car. I found an AC/DC converter by KEPCO (MOD RKW12-27K)
while
working on another project. When reading the spec sheet I found it will also
accept DC input. It will work on DC from 110 V to 370 V or AC from 85 V to 265
V. Hook it up and it works. It has the ability to be remotely activated via a
logic level input or a switch closure and multiple units can be hooked in
parallel for added current requirements. It also has short circuit output
protection, overtemp shutdown and it will shutdown if the fan stops.
It has a fan that runs whenever the unit is supplying current. however the
fan is quiet and is not noticeable in my car.
This model is rated at 300 watts (12v at 27Amps) and is small enough to be
mounted just about anywhere. There are 600watt & higher rated units available.
Just do a Google search on KEPCO to find your nearest vendor.
If this is old news my apologies if not I hope it is of use to the list
Pat Sweeney
KICKGAS 88 E-Fiero
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Welcome to the EV list!
D Franklin wrote:
> Most guys are running at least 96 volts and up.
Yes; mostly because that suits the motors most people have.
> I would like to be able to achieve 55mph.
How fast you can go has nothing (directly) to do with voltage. It's
really just a matter of how much horsepower your EV needs to go that
fast, and whether the motor, controller, and batteries can deliver it.
> The car I am using is a 86 chevette with a 4 speed.
Ok; that can work. (Wretched car, by the way. I used to drive one). I'd
guess you will need 10-15 horsepower to push it down the road at 55 mph.
That would take roughly 48v at 250a, 72v at 150a, 96v at 125a, etc.
> I had made up my mind that I was going to use a contactor/diode
> series parallel setup for the controller. It has 12v, 24v, and then
> 48v steps.
Ok; this is called the "rectactor" setup. If you do not include a
starting resistor step, then you will get a nasty "lurch" when first
starting out. You would have to start moving by slipping the clutch,
like a regular ICE. However, even at 12v the series traction motor will
be spinning considerably faster than an ICE. Workable, but pretty crude
an finicky to drive.
I would suggest dropping the 12v step, and replace it with 24v with a
starting resistor in series. This uses 3 contactors, 2 big diodes, and
the starting resistor. Add a 4th contactor and resistor if you want to
add field weakening.
> [diodes] can be quite expensive.
Yes; but they are pretty easy to find surplus. Even new, they are
cheaper than contactors.
> Can I jump the series motor connections, S2 to A2, and then hook
> S1 and A1 to a controller that only has two connections for the
> motor instead of 3?"
Yes; that is how you normally do it. The series motor only has two
connections that way. It won't be reversible, but you have a
transmission to provide reverse. It won't do Curtis-style plug braking,
but you won't have a controller to do that anyway.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> OK, seems there is a problem parallel charging NiCads. Is this at
> the begining charge or end charge.
It's at the end of charge. Many nicad chargers look for a voltage 'bump'
when the cell reaches full charge. With cells in parallel, the 'bump' is
reduced or missing if they reach full at different times.
> If I seperately charge the NiCads to a point at what point can
> they be paralleled if any?
You could bulk charge them in parallel; but separate and finish each
string separately.
Seems regen might be a problem.
Possibly; but usually regen won't bring them to a completely full
charge.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Rich Rudman wrote:
Mark the group 31s where 90 amphours ... Right?? it's on the sticker... Just
read it ....right????
The regulare Yts Group 24 are 55 amphours down from 65 when they first
released them.
80 might be what they are now.
Disconnecting the E-meter, from it's analog ground pin(shunt Neg) While it's
powered up,and the big voltage is still on..... Boy you are a Brave
Fellow!!!
AFAIK the emeter is grounded to the HV pack via the prescaler negative
line.. not the shunt. (I'm a little slow at times, but not stupid.) If
the shunt wires were part of the ground system they would be carrying
current, and that would be bad for accuracy, yes?
My Group 31's have a spot on the label for AH, but its blank.. only CCA
is filled in.
>If so, reset the meter, to amphours go for ride.... when battery stack
sags
Ugh.. I was afarid that would be the suggestion.
Mark
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Lee A. Hart wrote;
Welcome to the EV list!
Thanks for the welcome.
I'd
guess you will need 10-15 horsepower to push it down the road at 55
mph.
That would take roughly 48v at 250a, 72v at 150a, 96v at 125a, etc.
Ok. This gives me some numbers to think about.
I would suggest dropping the 12v step, and replace it with 24v with a
starting resistor in series. This uses 3 contactors, 2 big diodes, and
the starting resistor. Add a 4th contactor and resistor if you want to
add field weakening.
So, are you saying I could use a two step controller, and have a resistor
in series, with a contactor in parallel with the resistor? This is
sounding better all the time. One question though; What would the resistor
be made of? I have read about "carbon piles" but have never seen one.
Could I make my own resistor using a coil of undersized wire? I would suspect
though, the wire would get hot, so it would have to have good insulation'or
some sort of form I could wrap it around that would cool it, and be a insulator
too if the wire insulation failed. If I made my own resistor somehow, I could
move a tap along it's length till I got a good take off speed.
I hope I am not making all the high tech guys on this site uneasy by using such
a crude setup. But I want to get my feet wet, and then possibly upgrade later.
Dave F
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I concur with Lee with some additional thoughts.
Doing buddy pairs with NiCads is a bad idea. They will tend to get terribly
unbalanced if you do. The long overcharge at the end of the charge should
bring them back to equal state of charge.
Ideally, you should use them in two independent strings that can be
paralleled through bulk stage. When the current is stepped down near the end
of charge, then the strings should be separated and charged separately
(either concurrently with two separate chargers or sequentially on one
charger).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > OK, seems there is a problem parallel charging NiCads. Is this at
> > the begining charge or end charge.
>
> It's at the end of charge. Many nicad chargers look for a voltage 'bump'
> when the cell reaches full charge. With cells in parallel, the 'bump' is
> reduced or missing if they reach full at different times.
>
> > If I seperately charge the NiCads to a point at what point can
> > they be paralleled if any?
>
> You could bulk charge them in parallel; but separate and finish each
> string separately.
>
> Seems regen might be a problem.
>
> Possibly; but usually regen won't bring them to a completely full
> charge.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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D Franklin wrote:
> So, are you saying I could use a two step controller, and have a
> resistor in series, with a contactor in parallel with the resistor?
Yes; that is exactly right. Such a controller has the following steps:
- all off
- 24v with series resistor
- 24v direct
- 48v with series resistor (often left out)
- 48v direct
This is how the controllers in two of my EVs worked, though they were
36v/72v.
> What would the resistor be made of? I have read about "carbon
> piles" but have never seen one.
You can make your own, but it's easier to buy one. Resistors aren't
expensive. For example, get a catalog from C&H Sales
<www.candhsales.com>, 1-800-325-9465. They have suitable high-power
resistors for $10-$30. As a first approximation, you want a resistance
of about R = 36v / 250a = 0.14 ohms.
C&H has one that is 0.171 ohms, 120a continuous, stock# RS9552, $29.95.
It is a nichrome wire helix ("spring") about 4.5" diameter by 16.5"
long, on a ceramic insulating support. You can tap it anywhere along its
length for less resistance. It's rated at about half the current, but
that's ok as you only use it for a few seconds at a time in an EV.
PS: C&H has your big diodes, too. For example, 800v, 300a, stock#
PD9802, $23.50.
A 'carbon pile' is a stack of carbon plates or disks, held together by a
long bolt. The more you tighten the bolt, the lower the resistance of
the stack. So, it is an adjustable resistor. You don't really need this
type for a starting resistor. They cost more, and aren't as good at
dissipating heat (the nichrome resistors can run red-hot without damage
-- you'd wreck a carbon pile if you tried that).
> Could I make my own resistor using a coil of undersized wire?
You can, but it won't last. I've made my own resistors from steel
banding strap. The metal expands and sags considerably as it heats up,
so you need a good set of supports to keep it from shorting. Steel (and
copper, and most other metals) also changes its resistance drastically
with temperature; nichrome is specially chosen so this does not happen.
> I hope I am not making all the high tech guys on this site uneasy
> by using such a crude setup. But I want to get my feet wet, and
> then possibly upgrade later.
Let 'em groan! :-) This is a tried and true technique for building EV
controllers that has been used for well over 100 years. It's crude, but
it works. As you say, you can always upgrade it later.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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