EV Digest 3925
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Alignment, vibration, U-joints, etc.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Motor grade building materials? String?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Alignment, vibration, U-joints, etc.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Gone Postal
by "Catherine C. Burgard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Traffic court
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Gone Postal
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Gone Postal
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: AC-DC/DC converters
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Hybrid compared to EV in fuel cost. (Going OT)
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) But what about the Ford Th!nk re-birth
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Basic controller question
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Alignment, vibration, U-joints, etc.
by D Franklin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Optima Group 31 amp/hr & E-Meter
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Gone Postal
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Gone Postal
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Controller Questions/Charger Questions
by "Catherine C. Burgard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Controller Questions/Charger Questions
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Basic controller question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Controller Questions/Charger Questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
With what you have said Lee it seems I can bulk charge with the Lester &
finish charge with three small variacs one on each string. Should give very
good control and be easy to wire. Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
OK, seems there is a problem parallel charging NiCads. Is this at
the begining charge or end charge.
It's at the end of charge. Many nicad chargers look for a voltage 'bump'
when the cell reaches full charge. With cells in parallel, the 'bump' is
reduced or missing if they reach full at different times.
If I seperately charge the NiCads to a point at what point can
they be paralleled if any?
You could bulk charge them in parallel; but separate and finish each
string separately.
Seems regen might be a problem.
Possibly; but usually regen won't bring them to a completely full
charge.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was thinking variacs for the end of charge. Anybody have a better idea
for a 120 or 220 small 120vdc charger? Lawrence Rhodes..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 8:53 PM
Subject: Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
I concur with Lee with some additional thoughts.
Doing buddy pairs with NiCads is a bad idea. They will tend to get
terribly
unbalanced if you do. The long overcharge at the end of the charge should
bring them back to equal state of charge.
Ideally, you should use them in two independent strings that can be
paralleled through bulk stage. When the current is stepped down near the
end
of charge, then the strings should be separated and charged separately
(either concurrently with two separate chargers or sequentially on one
charger).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Complicated NiCad charging?
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> OK, seems there is a problem parallel charging NiCads. Is this at
> the begining charge or end charge.
It's at the end of charge. Many nicad chargers look for a voltage 'bump'
when the cell reaches full charge. With cells in parallel, the 'bump' is
reduced or missing if they reach full at different times.
> If I seperately charge the NiCads to a point at what point can
> they be paralleled if any?
You could bulk charge them in parallel; but separate and finish each
string separately.
Seems regen might be a problem.
Possibly; but usually regen won't bring them to a completely full
charge.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If you want to avoid the hassle
> and expense of tooling, and don't feel your machining and other skills are
> up to the job, buy a professionally made adaptor.
I think the problem is - many times there wouldn't be one available. I
assume they only make professionally made adapter plates for certain kinds of
cars,
not any and every car that could be converted to an EV.
Unfortunately, I didn't receive a lot of the responses on my question because
for some reason I didn't receive the last few list EV digests. I did receive
this response though:
<<The motor shaft needs to be at the same angle as the rear axle input
shaft (parallel).>>
This is essentially the problem I was complaining about and was trying to get
away from in the first place - the problem of having to precisely align a
motor and either a transmission or a rear end. I theorized that U-joints would
allow me to get away with imprecise alignment, but apparently they would not.
I will still have to have the same angle, even if the two things I am trying
to connect do not line have to line up. How the hell would one even begin to
line up, say, a rear end and a motor that precisely anyway, especially at
distance? What do you do, mount a laser on the motor shaft and line that laser
beam up with the rear end input? CRAZY!
Thanks.
Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can't resist asking, why do you want to pull up the brushes? Is your
alias a hint?
--- Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All I'm really looking for is string or some other material
> with good flexibility, strength, and heat resistance that
> can be used to pull brushes away from the com bars.
> ...
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
www.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was thinking variacs for the end of charge.
> Anybody have a better idea
> for a 120 or 220 small 120vdc charger? Lawrence
> Rhodes..
A lot cheaper would be lightbulbs in series with a
bridge rectifier for each finish charger. Very safe
way to finish charge for your low amphr batts for the
batts though not isolated.
Bulk to 1.5vdc/cell and finish at 1.5 amps or so to
1.60-1.65vdc/ cell. You could use a modified Rudman
reg, relay with a voltage divider to turn them off and
another to turn the Lester off making it automatic.
What's your pack voltage? 120? If it is you may
need to feed the lightbulbs from a variac, other
autotransformer or reduce your number of batts/string
a few.
Lester rated voltage? Peak?
But until you have several cycles on your batts,
they won't be that balanced. Should get a lot better
after the cycling. You may find weak one during the
cycling, change them out.
I'd bulk charge thru diodes to elimitate some
switching, current feedback.
I agree with Joe and Lee about the buddy pairing
and the bump. Remember the bump after it reaches full
charge, drops so you need to turn them of before the
voltage drop or it will confuse many chargers.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> With what you have said Lee it seems I can bulk charge with the
> Lester & finish charge with three small variacs one on each string.
> Should give very good control and be easy to wire.
Well, it is easy to control. But it is an entirely manual system. You
will have to watch it every time, and manually adjust the voltage and
turn it off when done. One mistake, and you wreck an expensive set of
batteries.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What do you do, mount a laser on the motor shaft and line that
> laser beam up with the rear end input? CRAZY!
It's not really that critical, or that hard to get it right. You can
make an adapter plate yourself with hand tools; it's just tedious.
If you're a machinist, you have precision tools. You can measure exactly
where the motor shaft needs to be, and machine the adapter plate to put
it exactly there.
If you're working in your garage with hand tools, you're lucky to
achieve 1/16th" accuracy. So, you don't do it this way. Instead, you do
it by "cut to fit" techniques. For instance, to balance the flywheel on
the motor shaft, you run them on the bench with the flywheel bolts very
slighly loose, and tap the spinning flywheel with a hammer. When you tap
it into exactly the right spot, the vibration goes away. Shut it off and
tighten the bolts.
Or, if there's no play in the bolts, add one washer to one of the bolts,
run it to check for vibration, and figure out where and how many washers
to use to balance it by trial and error.
To center the motor on the adapter plate, make a plywood adapter plate
as a trial run. The holes are going to be a bit soft, so you can move
the motor and transmission around a bit relative to each other. Test fit
the motor and transmission together on the bench, and run them. When
they are lined up perfectly, the motor spins the fastest and draws the
least current.
Once you are satisfied that your plywood adapter is close to right, make
a metal copy. Make the holes a little big oversized, and repeat the
process to get the position right. Then tighten the bolts. Now drill a
couple of alignment holes thru adapter, motor and transmission, and
pound in a pin. Now you can remove the bolts, and when you put it all
back together again, the pins force the parts back into alignment.
There are all sorts of tricks for producing precision equipment without
precision tools.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I'm a postal employee. I saw that shirt on a web site and thought it was
great. Wasn't it for an EV postal dragster? Could you send me the site
address or and address where I could get one?
Thanks
Catherine
I was installing a 1k Zilla in a Sparrow last weekend
with the garage door open. The 60 something postal
dude stopped to deliver the mail and jumped out of his
truck to check out the EV. He knows I have many EV
toys and was really interested in the Sparrow. He had
many questions and then noticed my 'Gone Postal' Tee
shirt. You should of seen the 'grimace' on his face.
Anyhow, I had to describe what this machine was about
before I could get a reluctant approval.
This guy seems to really be into alternative energy
but I'm not sure he was 100% supportive of the 'gone
postal' T-shirt. Oh well, I get some funny looks at
my 7 year old B-ball games when they see the shirt,
unfortunately none have asked about it. I don't dare
wear the 'Suck Amps' T-shirts to the kids functions!!!
Rod
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Discover all that�s new in My Yahoo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Elsewhere though, this is very common, especially if you're from out of the
area. I still fume at being pulled over in a known speed trap. I knew it
was a speed trap and was doing the posted speed limit on the nose. However,
the cop could tell by my tags that I was several hundred miles from home
(but still within state (Texas)), pulled me over and gave me a ticket for 9
miles an hour over the speed limit. I was told I could either plead guilty
and pay the ticket, or post a bond of about 20 times the fine if I wanted to
plead not guilty and come back to fight the ticket in court. I paid the
ticket. By the way, this was a city cop patrolling the state highway which
just entered the city limits for a couple of miles. (Those of you who know
the area, this was Highway 190 - the ticket given by a local Nolanville
cop.)
These rackets are quite common, and some out of state drivers will actually
be taken to jail until someone wires them the cash to pay the fine or post
bond. Most local judges will automatically side with the cop, especially
since traffic court is not a court of record. You have to lose in traffic
court and appeal before you get into a court of record. Most people just
don't have the time or money to fight it to this level.
Dave
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Traffic court
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 10:41:31 -0800
Out here on the west coast..
A cop trumping up a charge and a Judge that plays that game will
get
both of them in jail and the offeneder a multi Million dollar harassment
settlement.
Know your rights, and Don't take crap from the public official that you pay
to enforce the laws.
Honest is honest, and fight to make it that way.
77 in work zone... is very foolish. Any way you cut it.
That this from a guy who considers I-5 his local race track.....there are
things you do and things that you don't.
We've had more than a few construction workers get driven over by Yuppies
and BMWs in a hurry.
A "Construction work Zone fines double", will drop me from 90+ to 70 on the
dot if so posted....
Also I would have thought about writing it all up... and posting it to the
local paper's website.
Public light is a rather clear and bright light.
If I am scrweing around, I pay the ticket, If I am just passing through...
and the cop is checking my nose hairs... I take it very seriously, and He
is
in greater legal danger than I. He better do the job right or I and my
legal
team will be talking to the guy who signs his paycheck.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Catherin,
You can go to www.evparts.com
or www.suckamps.com
Roderick Wilde (President of EVparts) built a postal
truck 'extreme EV'. I'll let Rich Rudman (wildman) or
Rod describe what parts are in the truck.
--- "Catherine C. Burgard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, I'm a postal employee. I saw that shirt on a
> web site and thought it was great. Wasn't it for an
> EV postal dragster? Could you send me the site
> address or and address where I could get one?
> Thanks
> Catherine
>
>
>
> I was installing a 1k Zilla in a Sparrow last
> weekend
> with the garage door open. The 60 something postal
> dude stopped to deliver the mail and jumped out of
> his
> truck to check out the EV. He knows I have many EV
> toys and was really interested in the Sparrow. He
> had
> many questions and then noticed my 'Gone Postal' Tee
> shirt. You should of seen the 'grimace' on his face.
>
> Anyhow, I had to describe what this machine was
> about
> before I could get a reluctant approval.
> This guy seems to really be into alternative energy
> but I'm not sure he was 100% supportive of the 'gone
> postal' T-shirt. Oh well, I get some funny looks at
> my 7 year old B-ball games when they see the shirt,
> unfortunately none have asked about it. I don't dare
> wear the 'Suck Amps' T-shirts to the kids
> functions!!!
> Rod
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Discover all that�s new in My Yahoo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I'm a postal employee. I saw that shirt on a web site and
thought it was great. Wasn't it for an EV postal dragster? Could
you send me the site address or and address where I could get one?
Thanks
Catherine
Visit EV Parts <http://www.evparts.com> or see more of the Postal Van
at <http://www.suckamps.com/>.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 6:32 PM -0500 11-20-04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Boys & Girls,
This may be common knowledge or I may have found A useful source of DC/DC
converters that have been overlooked. I recently Zorched the Vicor DC/DC I was
using and have been looking for a DC/DC that would accommodate the 228 V
traction pack in my car. I found an AC/DC converter by KEPCO (MOD
RKW12-27K) while
working on another project. When reading the spec sheet I found it will also
accept DC input. It will work on DC from 110 V to 370 V or AC from 85 V to 265
V. Hook it up and it works. It has the ability to be remotely activated via a
logic level input or a switch closure and multiple units can be hooked in
parallel for added current requirements. It also has short circuit output
protection, overtemp shutdown and it will shutdown if the fan stops.
It has a fan that runs whenever the unit is supplying current. however the
fan is quiet and is not noticeable in my car.
This model is rated at 300 watts (12v at 27Amps) and is small enough to be
mounted just about anywhere. There are 600watt & higher rated units available.
Just do a Google search on KEPCO to find your nearest vendor.
If this is old news my apologies if not I hope it is of use to the list
Pat Sweeney
KICKGAS 88 E-Fiero
Hey Pat,
Thanks,
That looks like it might help out some people with high voltage EV's.
Spec sheet is here:
http://www.kepcopower.com/specs/rkw-progspecs.pdf
Good news is that they can be adjusted up to 14.4V so they can
provide reasonable voltage for bright lights.
Bad news is that the current limit is rectangular and requires a manual reset.
(2) The current limit is rectangular. If overcurrent persists for
more than 30 seconds, the output shuts down. Reset by resetting the
RC terminals.
This means that one would ideally add a current cutback control loop
on the outside of it to make is act like a battery charger for the
12V battery. Sure wouldn't want it to trip and then end up with a
dead 12V battery.
I found it interesting that they are also power factor corrected.
You didn't list the prices and since people may care, here they are
along with the nominal cost per watt:
300W = $255 .85/W
600W = $395 .66/W
1500W= $925 .62/W
You can buy them direct from Kepco here:
http://www.kepcopower.com/rkwp.htm
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 03:49:53PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The guy said that if you floorboard a new Prius, the RPM will jump to
> and stay at 2300 RPM untill the car reaches the governed speed, 94 MPH.
> If he was correct, I dont see much use for a tach...
I'll say. 2300rpm sounds like the most fuel efficient setting too. I
wonder if the Highlander will do the same thing...
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
The voters have spoken. Let's hope we survive the result.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Enjoyed the video on the program "30 Minutes" on the death of the
Ford Th!nk, but what has become of the parent company back in
Scandinavia ?? and their desire to forge ahead on their own to produce
the car ?? Why didn't they cover THAT story ??
And where is Bruce Parmenter ?? I miss all his posts weekly, on EV
News gleaned from round the World/ and all over the Net....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
D Franklin wrote:
> So, are you saying I could use a two step controller, and have a
> resistor in series, with a contactor in parallel with the resistor?
Yes; that is exactly right. Such a controller has the following steps:
- all off
- 24v with series resistor
- 24v direct
- 48v with series resistor (often left out)
- 48v direct
This is how the controllers in two of my EVs worked, though they were
36v/72v.
> What would the resistor be made of? I have read about "carbon
> piles" but have never seen one.
You can make your own, but it's easier to buy one. Resistors aren't
expensive. For example, get a catalog from C&H Sales
, 1-800-325-9465. They have suitable high-power
resistors for $10-$30. As a first approximation, you want a resistance
of about R = 36v / 250a = 0.14 ohms.
C&H has one that is 0.171 ohms, 120a continuous, stock# RS9552, $29.95.
It is a nichrome wire helix ("spring") about 4.5" diameter by 16.5"
long, on a ceramic insulating support. You can tap it anywhere along its
length for less resistance. It's rated at about half the current, but
that's ok as you only use it for a few seconds at a time in an EV.
PS: C&H has your big diodes, too. For example, 800v, 300a, stock#
PD9802, $23.50.
A 'carbon pile' is a stack of carbon plates or disks, held together by a
long bolt. The more you tighten the bolt, the lower the resistance of
the stack. So, it is an adjustable resistor. You don't really need this
type for a starting resistor. They cost more, and aren't as good at
dissipating heat (the nichrome resistors can run red-hot without damage
-- you'd wreck a carbon pile if you tried that).
> Could I make my own resistor using a coil of undersized wire?
You can, but it won't last. I've made my own resistors from steel
banding strap. The metal expands and sags considerably as it heats up,
so you need a good set of supports to keep it from shorting. Steel (and
copper, and most other metals) also changes its resistance drastically
with temperature; nichrome is specially chosen so this does not happen.
> I hope I am not making all the high tech guys on this site uneasy
> by using such a crude setup. But I want to get my feet wet, and
> then possibly upgrade later.
Let 'em groan! :-) This is a tried and true technique for building EV
controllers that has been used for well over 100 years. It's crude, but
it works. As you say, you can always upgrade it later.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Ok, things are coming together. Thanks a lot for all the help and advice. I
think I will continue with the retactor plan, since it gives me some
flexibility with the number of batteries and voltages. I am thinking I can run
24v/48v, or 36v/48v like you did. I am going to buy that resistor(that's a
good site by the way). I am thinking about taking a little bit of risk and
buying some of those diodes that are on ebay right now. They are some sort of
Russian military surplus, rated at 160 amps. I can put two in parallel for 320
amps right? The price is right, and I found out shipping will be a little
high, but not too bad. I hope the government doesn't come knocking on my door!
I have been getting some of these drive ideas from the book "How to Convert To
An Electric Car", by Ted Lucas and Fred Riess. In their rectactor circuit,
they install fuses at the batteries(wisely so) to protect against a dead short
if one of the contactors happen to stick. I found some fuses that don't have a
bad price(250amp "mega fuse", $5.85 at Cloud electric), but let me throw this
at you. Would it be possible to take a rectangle piece of copper or brass,
drill mounting holes in each end, and cut it down in the middle, so there was a
reasonable chance it would melt in two before a fire started?
Dave F
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! � Get yours free!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I can contribute a little bit to this, since it applies to ICE cars that
I have restored and repaired. The other guys are right, that the motor and the
differential are, and need to be parallel. What you can do is buy one of those
circular bubble levels with the degree markings around it. Set the level on
the flat part of the yoke on the rearend, and read the degree of tilt. Most
car rearends are usually around 3 degrees tilted up at the nose. This method
of measuring is close enough, since the rearend goes up and down with the road
anyway. A lot of rearends move in an arc because of their control arms, so the
measurement is a compromise. If your ride height will drop a lot with the
batteries, you could take the measurement with them installed.
Once you get your motor/transimission installed, set the degree level on top of
the motor, and adjust it for about a 3 degree(or whatever matches the rearend
angle) downward slope toward the firewall. You should be able to move your
homemade crossmember up or down to achieve this.
I don't know how many of you guys work on cars with gasoline engines, but next
time you work on an old rear drive car that had a carb, look at the carb pad
mounting angle. The intake manifolds are machined at about a 3 degree angle,
so the carb float bowels stay level compared to the rearward slope of the
engine/tranny combo.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> If you want to avoid the hassle
> and expense of tooling, and don't feel your machining and other skills are
> up to the job, buy a professionally made adaptor.
I think the problem is - many times there wouldn't be one available. I
assume they only make professionally made adapter plates for certain kinds of
cars,
not any and every car that could be converted to an EV.
Unfortunately, I didn't receive a lot of the responses on my question because
for some reason I didn't receive the last few list EV digests. I did receive
this response though:
<shaft (parallel).>>
This is essentially the problem I was complaining about and was trying to get
away from in the first place - the problem of having to precisely align a
motor and either a transmission or a rear end. I theorized that U-joints would
allow me to get away with imprecise alignment, but apparently they would not.
I will still have to have the same angle, even if the two things I am trying
to connect do not line have to line up. How the hell would one even begin to
line up, say, a rear end and a motor that precisely anyway, especially at
distance? What do you do, mount a laser on the motor shaft and line that laser
beam up with the rear end input? CRAZY!
Thanks.
Sam
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Discover all that�s new in My Yahoo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would try to never remove the shunt negaitve battery side line Orange pin
#3 from the shunt. Until the positive Scaled voltage is removed then the 12
volts E-meter supply.
Alaway give a way for any voltage on the shunt lines to bleed of . Letting
these lines float up for any reason will kill or damage the meter.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Farver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Optima Group 31 amp/hr & E-Meter
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >Mark the group 31s where 90 amphours ... Right?? it's on the sticker...
Just
> >read it ....right????
> >The regulare Yts Group 24 are 55 amphours down from 65 when they first
> >released them.
> >80 might be what they are now.
> >
> >Disconnecting the E-meter, from it's analog ground pin(shunt Neg) While
it's
> >powered up,and the big voltage is still on..... Boy you are a Brave
> >Fellow!!!
> >
> >
> >
> AFAIK the emeter is grounded to the HV pack via the prescaler negative
> line.. not the shunt. (I'm a little slow at times, but not stupid.) If
> the shunt wires were part of the ground system they would be carrying
> current, and that would be bad for accuracy, yes?
>
> My Group 31's have a spot on the label for AH, but its blank.. only CCA
> is filled in.
>
> >If so, reset the meter, to amphours go for ride.... when battery stack
> sags
>
> Ugh.. I was afarid that would be the suggestion.
>
> Mark
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contact Rod Wilde at EVparts.com
1-360-385-7966
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catherine C. Burgard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: Gone Postal
> Hi, I'm a postal employee. I saw that shirt on a web site and thought it
was great. Wasn't it for an EV postal dragster? Could you send me the site
address or and address where I could get one?
> Thanks
> Catherine
>
>
>
> I was installing a 1k Zilla in a Sparrow last weekend
> with the garage door open. The 60 something postal
> dude stopped to deliver the mail and jumped out of his
> truck to check out the EV. He knows I have many EV
> toys and was really interested in the Sparrow. He had
> many questions and then noticed my 'Gone Postal' Tee
> shirt. You should of seen the 'grimace' on his face.
> Anyhow, I had to describe what this machine was about
> before I could get a reluctant approval.
> This guy seems to really be into alternative energy
> but I'm not sure he was 100% supportive of the 'gone
> postal' T-shirt. Oh well, I get some funny looks at
> my 7 year old B-ball games when they see the shirt,
> unfortunately none have asked about it. I don't dare
> wear the 'Suck Amps' T-shirts to the kids functions!!!
> Rod
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Discover all that's new in My Yahoo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Catherin,
> You can go to www.evparts.com
> or www.suckamps.com
> Roderick Wilde (President of EVparts) built a postal
> truck 'extreme EV'. I'll let Rich Rudman (wildman) or
> Rod describe what parts are in the truck.
>
> --- "Catherine C. Burgard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
Rod, and Catherin,
I am Madman....
Rod is Wildeman
Incedentally, I am wearing my Crew T-shirt today....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I'm in Templeton California.
Ok, I've been reading these post with great interest too. I will admit I don't
understand everything but that's what learning is all about:)
I had posted last week about my car, 60 volt pack, not being up to speed after
it was charged with my zivan K2. Turns out the charger is only charging for a
48 volt pack. So we took two batteries out. Charges fine. Down side is I
wanted the 60 volts for speed. You said you can go 55mph with 48v? Is that
because there is a transmission involved? I have a 1981 comutacar, no
transmission but the motor reverses. With 48v I can only go about 28mph. We
have a rolling terrain here.
I have a curtis 1205-201 rated for 36-48v. Could it be used to run my car with
60 volts? Would the modifications you were talking about work here?
How about the charger. Can it be upgraded for the 60 volts like Mike did on
his NG5? I know some people have more than one charger for there cars. The
guy that got me to this list is running 3 or 4 K2 chargers. What is the object
of that? Is it one charger for every 48 volts? How are they wired?
Thanks
Catherine
D Franklin wrote:
> So, are you saying I could use a two step controller, and have a
> resistor in series, with a contactor in parallel with the resistor?
Yes; that is exactly right. Such a controller has the following steps:
- all off
- 24v with series resistor
- 24v direct
- 48v with series resistor (often left out)
- 48v direct
This is how the controllers in two of my EVs worked, though they were
36v/72v.
> What would the resistor be made of? I have read about "carbon
> piles" but have never seen one.
You can make your own, but it's easier to buy one. Resistors aren't
expensive. For example, get a catalog from C&H Sales
, 1-800-325-9465. They have suitable high-power
resistors for $10-$30. As a first approximation, you want a resistance
of about R = 36v / 250a = 0.14 ohms.
C&H has one that is 0.171 ohms, 120a continuous, stock# RS9552, $29.95.
It is a nichrome wire helix ("spring") about 4.5" diameter by 16.5"
long, on a ceramic insulating support. You can tap it anywhere along its
length for less resistance. It's rated at about half the current, but
that's ok as you only use it for a few seconds at a time in an EV.
PS: C&H has your big diodes, too. For example, 800v, 300a, stock#
PD9802, $23.50.
A 'carbon pile' is a stack of carbon plates or disks, held together by a
long bolt. The more you tighten the bolt, the lower the resistance of
the stack. So, it is an adjustable resistor. You don't really need this
type for a starting resistor. They cost more, and aren't as good at
dissipating heat (the nichrome resistors can run red-hot without damage
-- you'd wreck a carbon pile if you tried that).
> Could I make my own resistor using a coil of undersized wire?
You can, but it won't last. I've made my own resistors from steel
banding strap. The metal expands and sags considerably as it heats up,
so you need a good set of supports to keep it from shorting. Steel (and
copper, and most other metals) also changes its resistance drastically
with temperature; nichrome is specially chosen so this does not happen.
> I hope I am not making all the high tech guys on this site uneasy
> by using such a crude setup. But I want to get my feet wet, and
> then possibly upgrade later.
Let 'em groan! :-) This is a tried and true technique for building EV
controllers that has been used for well over 100 years. It's crude, but
it works. As you say, you can always upgrade it later.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! � Try it today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Catherine wrote:
<SNIP>
I had posted last week about my car, 60 volt pack, not being up to speed
after it was charged with my zivan K2. Turns out the charger is only
charging for a 48 volt pack. So we took two batteries out. Charges
fine. Down side is I wanted the 60 volts for speed. You said you can go
55mph with 48v? Is that because there is a transmission involved? I have
a 1981 comutacar, no transmission but the motor reverses. With 48v I can
only go about 28mph. We have a rolling terrain here.
I personally would suggest that you not consider pushing your ComutaCar
more than about 40 mph. The short wheelbase and basically golf cart
suspension and steering is just not something that should be out on the
freeway sharing lanes with 5000 pound SUVs at 55 mph. All C-Cars are more
or less NEVs without the restrictions. I had my '75 Citicar/Comutacar
mixture up to 47mph on a long downhill run and scared the heck out of
myself. You might want to check out Scott Hull's page of improvements for
the C-Cars at:
http://www.m-cad.com/dp/ev/c-carupg.htm
He tested several battery configurations and changes in wheels and tires,
controllers and so forth. At 72 Volts he felt it was okay at 50 mph, but
not a freeway vehicle.
I have a curtis 1205-201 rated for 36-48v. Could it be used to run my car
with 60 volts? Would the modifications you were talking about work here?
I will leave it to the experts for the exact answer on this one, but I
think the only choice would be a higher voltage controller. I am fairly
sure thi\ere is no practical way to modify them.
How about the charger. Can it be upgraded for the 60 volts like Mike did
on his NG5?
I don't know how adjustable a K2 is, but the NG5 only was adjusting over a
fairly narrow range.
I know some people have more than one charger for there cars. The guy
that got me to this list is running 3 or 4 K2 chargers. What is the
object of that? Is it one charger for every 48 volts? How are they wired?
That sounds like Bruce Parmenter's S-10 Blazer. His EV has a 132 Volt
system. Each charger charges all the batteries in the pack, he just has
multiple chargers to allow faster charging. They work in
parallel. Basically, he can match the chargers to the available power
supply, and suck as many amps as he can. As his Album page says "With all
chargers on, delivers over 155 amps DC into pack (23 kw) for rapid 1 hour
recharging time. "
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
D Franklin wrote:
> I have been getting some of these drive ideas from the book "How to
> Convert To An Electric Car", by Ted Lucas and Fred Riess. In their
> rectactor circuit, they install fuses at the batteries (wisely so)
> to protect against a dead short if one of the contactors happen to
> stick.
Yes; that's a very wise idea!
> I found some fuses that don't have a bad price (250amp "mega fuse",
> $5.85 at Cloud electric)
The "mega fuse" is a very low quality 12v fuse automotive fuse. Don't
use it at 48v! It will melt open, but then it will just arc across and
the current will continue to flow!
> Would it be possible to take a rectangle piece of copper or brass,
> drill mounting holes in each end
Yes, you can make your own fuse. The problem, though, is that you will
also have to test it yourself, to determine what its current rating will
be. This is rather tedious.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Catherine C. Burgard wrote:
> I had posted last week about my car, 60 volt pack, not being up to
> speed after it was charged with my zivan K2. Turns out the charger
> is only charging for a 48 volt pack. So we took two batteries out.
> Charges fine.
Good! That's one problem solved.
> Down side is I wanted the 60 volts for speed. You said you can go
> 55mph with 48v? Is that because there is a transmission involved?
Right; it's not voltage that determines speed; it's horsepower. A
ComutaCar needs about 8-10hp to go 55 mph. Let's use 9hp, which is about
9kw from the battery as a talking figure. With the stock 48v battery
pack, 9000w / 48v = 187.5 amps. The 6v golf cart battery's voltage
actually sags a bit, so call it 200 amps.
With the stock gearing in the ComutaCar, the motor will only draw about
150 amps at 55 mph. Thus, it could go that fast downhill, but not on the
level. To get the motor to draw 200 amps from a 48v pack, you can a) use
larger diameter tires, b) change the differential ratio, c) add a
transmisison with overdrive, or c) add field weakening to the motor.
a. Larger tires
I drove a ComutaVan for many years. It is the "big brother of the
ComutaCar, and they are very similar. It came with miserable trailer
tires and rims. I installed 14" rims and larger diameter tires. This
required trimming the plastic body wheel well openings a bit, but they
fit.
b. Differential
My ComutaVan had a standard Dana rear axle, 5.17:1 ratio. They come in
many different ratios. If you have this rear end, it is possible to
change to a lower numerical ratio to go a bit faster (at the expense of
slower accelleration and slower hill-climbing).
But, if your ComutaCar has one of the golf car rear ends, you may not be
able to find one with a better ratio.
c. Transmission
ComutaCars have no transmission; just one gear. It's like they are
"stuck" in 2nd gear all the time. This is a compromise between a lower
numerical ratio for speed, vs. a higher numerical ratio for faster
accelleration and better hill climbing.
My ComutaVan had a 3-speed manual transmission (but no clutch). This
helped a *lot* at making it more drivable with the 3-step contactor
controller. Adding one to your ComutaCar should be straightforward,
though a lot of work.
d. Field weakening
This is done by adding a resistor and a contactor in series, which goes
across the motor's field winding. It partially shorts the field,
weakening it, which makes the motor try to run faster and draw more
current.
The downside is that the motor also runs hotter and less efficient. So,
this is only good for a brief burst of speed, or you will have to
significantly improve motor cooling.
> I have a 1981 comutacar, no transmission but the motor reverses.
> With 48v I can only go about 28mph.
Either you have a problem (soft tires, dragging brakes, misaligned front
suspension, bad batteries, etc.), or you have a much higher numerical
differential ratio that I did.
Install an ammeter in series with the batteries, and see how much
current it is drawing at that 28 mph top speed. Tell us the current, and
we can tell if there is a problem, or if you just have a very high
numerical differential ratio.
> I have a curtis 1205-201 rated for 36-48v. Could it be used to
> run my car with 60 volts?
No. It would fail. Actually, this strikes me as too small a controller
for this car. This is the kind of controller you'd put on a 600 lbs golf
cart, not a 1300 lbs. car.
> Would the modifications you were talking about work here?
Yes, they could. The ComutaCar came stock with a 24/48v contactor
controller.
> How about the charger. Can it be upgraded for the 60 volts
> like Mike did on his NG5?
I'm not the one to ask. I don't think a Zivan can be adjusted from 48v
to 60v, but maybe it can.
> The guy that got me to this list is running 3 or 4 K2 chargers.
> What is the object of that?
Probably just to charge faster. Or, he has a 72v pack which consists of
two 36v strings, and uses a separate 36v charger for each one.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
