EV Digest 3931
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Fwd: Re: After a simple voltmeter circuit using LEDs
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: After a simple voltmeter circuit using LEDs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Modular Charger
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: charge algorithm question (related to modular chargers)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Modular Charger
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) remove from list
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: After a simple voltmeter circuit using LEDs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: After a simple voltmeter circuit using LEDs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Modular Charger
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Fwd: Re: Modular Charger
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Fwd: Re: Modular Charger
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: After a simple voltmeter circuit using LEDs
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: After a simple voltmeter circuit using LEDs
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Death of Ev enthusiast
by Brad Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: fuel gauge and clutchless shifting
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) rav 4 for lease?/sale
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) we have Chevrolet S-10EV's for sale
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Death of Ev enthusiast
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Death of Ev enthusiast
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Modular Charger
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Making 240VAC out of 2 x 120VAC
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Death of EV author
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Actually when you drive the green LED over 15.6 volts it turns yellow
> and keeps getting brighter till burnout.
>
> Likewise at 10.9 volts the red is *just barely* coming on, on bright by
> 10.6 and brighter as the battery sinks into reverse-ville.
>
> My orig design called for a 3 color LED, but with the yellow option on
> the green/red ones, I didn't need it.
>
> A row of LEDs per battery would mean 500+ LEDs and 500 wires running
> around. Too complex and too much space.
Apparently this is not expandable in the way I envisioned. I liked the idea of
the little Jameco
kit Lee mentioned and thought more along those lines. Just two wires per
battery to sense voltage
(or optoisolators, I don't know how those work) and a simple module in the
dash. I don't know why
you'd want 500+ LEDs and wires. If you have a 20 battery pack, you need 20 LED
meters. I thought
at most you would have, say 6 or 7 LEDs per battery. That's still a fair number
but reasonable.
You could build it into a nice package to fit in the dash or nearby. Wouldn't
you just need a 12
volt supply from your DC-DC and the 20 lines to the batteries?
Yes/no/maybe?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>>at most you would have, say 6 or 7 LEDs per battery. That's still a fair
number but reasonable. You could build it into a nice package to fit in the
dash or nearby. Wouldn't you just need a 12 volt supply from your DC-DC and the
20 lines to the batteries?<<<
I know practically nothing about electronics, but I've seen multicolor,
multilead LEDs that can put out a full spectrum from a single unit - that could
give you 7 outputs (white/blue/green/yellow/orange/red/violet) per battery.
Alternatively, how about a single set of LEDs (or one of the above) with a
number readout for which battery is being monitored and just have the system
"scoll through the pack".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tuesday, November 23, 2004, at 08:54 AM, Eric Poulsen wrote:
Now that I think about it, I think that the PFC + regs would be a
better choice, but I'm still kinda on the fence.
I sat on that particular fence for quite a while myself. I eventually
stepped down into the Manzanita Micro meadow, because I don't know what
I'm doing yet and the PFC + Rudman Regulators are engineered as a
system and have been well tested by lots of people on the list, who
speak well of the support that Rich and co. offers.
I still think modular chargers make more sense, but I realize I'm not
yet qualified to put together a modular charger system on my own that
would work as well as the Manzanita Micro system. Lee Hart kindly sent
me the plans for the modular charger system he designed for the Tango,
which looks more like the sort of thing I'd like to have in my own
vehicle, but I'm not up to the task of building and maintaining them.
Plus they'd cost rather a lot more money, too.
A bunch of Soneils wouldn't work particularly quickly on their own, and
adding a bulk charger again makes a system that's not been engineered
and tested *as a system*. Maybe I'll feel brave enough to roll my own
system sometime in the future, but not with my first vehicle.
Actually, what I'd like to see the most is a modular system that is not
only a charger but a controller as well. I've posted about it before.
Ken Trough just posted about a NASA-developed switching matrix that can
switch batteries in and out of service for either charging or powering
the vehicle. My idea is essentially the same thing, but the switching
matrix is distributed through the battery pack, making it into
basically a high-tech intelligent contactor controller.
The benefit is complete flexibility in designing or redesigning your
vehicle (add or subtract batteries at will), and a simpler design task.
No more deciding which controller or charger - just get one module per
battery. You could mix different battery chemistries, too, as long as
each module knew how to treat its own battery. Low batteries would no
longer limit your range - they stop getting discharged before they get
damaged. It just makes all kind of sense to me.
Drawbacks include a high cost per module and the possibility that I'm a
complete nutjob.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had a pulse charger in my last motorhome. I hated the charger. It took
about three days to bring the batteries back up from a long boondocks
campout. Why do they put 50 amp AC to DC converters in motorhomes but only 4
amp chargers?
It took some flooded batteries from 60% of rated capacity to 20% of rated
capacity in about 6 months. The water level dropped to about half full
during that time in storage while I was not using it.
It took some AGM batteries from 30% of rated capacity to 80% of rated
capacity in about 6 months. I was really surprised at the increase after the
experience with the flooded batteries.
The AGMs liked the charger and the flooded battery hated it.
The charger must match your application and your batteries. Some marriages
work out and others end early.
I would use the 1214R with flooded batteries and the 1212SR with AGMs.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 6:16 PM
Subject: charge algorithm question (related to modular chargers)
>
> I am about to purchase my second modular charger
> set (only 3 12V chargers) have mostly boiled down
> the decision between two different soneil chargers,
> the 1212SR and the 1214S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like the ACPropullion system- It claims to
provide both AC motor controller with a BMS all in one
unit. They a pretty expensive but they are also
competitive if you compare the Semeins A/C Motor &
controller price without the BMS. The AC-150 unit it
the controller.
--- Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, November 23, 2004, at 08:54 AM, Eric
> Poulsen wrote:
> >
> > Now that I think about it, I think that the PFC +
> regs would be a
> > better choice, but I'm still kinda on the fence.
> >
>
> I sat on that particular fence for quite a while
> myself. I eventually
> stepped down into the Manzanita Micro meadow,
> because I don't know what
> I'm doing yet and the PFC + Rudman Regulators are
> engineered as a
> system and have been well tested by lots of people
> on the list, who
> speak well of the support that Rich and co. offers.
>
> I still think modular chargers make more sense, but
> I realize I'm not
> yet qualified to put together a modular charger
> system on my own that
> would work as well as the Manzanita Micro system.
> Lee Hart kindly sent
> me the plans for the modular charger system he
> designed for the Tango,
> which looks more like the sort of thing I'd like to
> have in my own
> vehicle, but I'm not up to the task of building and
> maintaining them.
> Plus they'd cost rather a lot more money, too.
>
> A bunch of Soneils wouldn't work particularly
> quickly on their own, and
> adding a bulk charger again makes a system that's
> not been engineered
> and tested *as a system*. Maybe I'll feel brave
> enough to roll my own
> system sometime in the future, but not with my first
> vehicle.
>
> Actually, what I'd like to see the most is a modular
> system that is not
> only a charger but a controller as well. I've
> posted about it before.
> Ken Trough just posted about a NASA-developed
> switching matrix that can
> switch batteries in and out of service for either
> charging or powering
> the vehicle. My idea is essentially the same thing,
> but the switching
> matrix is distributed through the battery pack,
> making it into
> basically a high-tech intelligent contactor
> controller.
>
> The benefit is complete flexibility in designing or
> redesigning your
> vehicle (add or subtract batteries at will), and a
> simpler design task.
> No more deciding which controller or charger -
> just get one module per
> battery. You could mix different battery
> chemistries, too, as long as
> each module knew how to treat its own battery. Low
> batteries would no
> longer limit your range - they stop getting
> discharged before they get
> damaged. It just makes all kind of sense to me.
>
> Drawbacks include a high cost per module and the
> possibility that I'm a
> complete nutjob.
>
> --
> Doug Weathers
> Bend, OR, USA
> http://learn-something.blogsite.org
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I just stumbled onto this site this morning:
http://www.electric7.com/
It is an AC drive NiMH powered EV project, using NiMH batteries salvaged
from hybrid electric cars. Anyone know anything about this one? Do those
look like Prius batteries?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
*nod* They look like prismatics. I've been fiddling with the idea of
building a 300 volt pack-o-prismatics (7ah) as a range booster/short
range pack for the Prizm to save wear and tear on the Hawkers.
A *REAL* interesting question would be to find someone with a Prius,
then hook up some monitoring wires to the pack to measure battery sag
and voltage while the electric motor is charging/draining the batteries.
Chris
Mike Chancey wrote:
Hi folks,
I just stumbled onto this site this morning:
http://www.electric7.com/
It is an AC drive NiMH powered EV project, using NiMH batteries salvaged
from hybrid electric cars. Anyone know anything about this one? Do
those look like Prius batteries?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
>From the EVDL archives,
Couldn't find out any other info.
From: Carlton Brown
Subject: RE: IN-1 (Insight clone of EV-1) kit thought
(was: build proposed...
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 14:42:33 -0700
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brusa has told me that the NLG5xx will work off of
110V, with reduced
charging power. Assuming this is true, it would offer
dual voltage
charging, an option that might prove to be popular.
Carl
--- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I just stumbled onto this site this morning:
>
> http://www.electric7.com/
>
> It is an AC drive NiMH powered EV project, using
> NiMH batteries salvaged
> from hybrid electric cars. Anyone know anything
> about this one? Do those
> look like Prius batteries?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at:
> http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at:
> http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
could you please remove me from the email list.
thanks.
jon wold
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Cover [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > I'm in the build and torture phase at the moment, so the specifics are
> > subject to change if
> > something goes poof in the torture test.<grin>
> >
> > I'll post a link to the circuits to all this stuff when I get it finalized.
> >
>
> This sounds like an excellent project. I think it would be pretty cool to
> have a grid of LEds on
> the dash showing you real time what your pack is doing. If it gets too bright
> you could semi-hide
> it behind a smoke glass window to subdue it a little. Just enough to keey an
> eye on the pack, but
> not enough to blind you at night. And if you have a stinker in the pack, it
> will stand out.
The LM3914 chips have a single pin that adjusts the current (and thus the
brightness) to the LEDs from 2 to 30 mA, based on the current thru that pin
(0.2-3 mA). Therefore, a simple variable resistor can control the brightness.
I've not tried controling multiple circuits with a single pot, but it might
work. I'll let you know.
> I'd love to do the same but my electronics abilities don't go much farther
> than wiring and
> soldering what someone else has figured out for me. If you post more info
> about this project could
> you also include details of how you incorporate the opto isolators and
> details like that?
>
Look at the spec sheets for this chip, you find several interesting and easy
looking connection diagrams.
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LM3914.html
I especially like the variants that make the display switch from Bar to Dot
mode(page 12) or Flash (page 13).
I'll post more details as I try things (and hopefully not blow them up).
Mike Shipway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the subject of alternetive voltage circuits, a must read is Gordon
Stallings' web page about his battery monitor project:
http://genki.home.ionet.net/BattMon/BattMonArticle.html
It's well written up and displays 13 bar graphs on a slick LCD display.
I believe it was this page that inspired me to look into opto isolators and
putting a resistor or fuse on each battery sense wire.
I especially like his mounting of the resistor inside the collar of the ring
connector, it looks very "finished".
His circuit, alas, ran him $500 in one off quantities of parts.
Mike Shipway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Friday, November 26, 2004, at 02:55 AM, Bruce Weisenberger wrote:
Sounds like the ACPropullion system- It claims to
provide both AC motor controller with a BMS all in one
unit.
Not really - they have one big box with everything in it. I envision
one small box per battery, and when you put them all together, you have
everything you need.
They a pretty expensive but they are also
competitive if you compare the Semeins A/C Motor &
controller price without the BMS. The AC-150 unit it
the controller.
I expect the AC Propulsion solution (designed for a specific vehicle)
to be popular with car companies who mass-produce their vehicles. I
expect the modular approach to be popular with hobbyists,
experimenters, and people who want great flexibility. Unfortunately
the modular approach will almost certainly be more expensive than the
monolithic approach, so I may never see it happen.
--- Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Tuesday, November 23, 2004, at 08:54 AM, Eric
Poulsen wrote:
Now that I think about it, I think that the PFC +
regs would be a
better choice, but I'm still kinda on the fence.
I sat on that particular fence for quite a while
myself. I eventually
stepped down into the Manzanita Micro meadow,
because I don't know what
I'm doing yet and the PFC + Rudman Regulators are
engineered as a
system and have been well tested by lots of people
on the list, who
speak well of the support that Rich and co. offers.
I still think modular chargers make more sense, but
I realize I'm not
yet qualified to put together a modular charger
system on my own that
would work as well as the Manzanita Micro system.
Lee Hart kindly sent
me the plans for the modular charger system he
designed for the Tango,
which looks more like the sort of thing I'd like to
have in my own
vehicle, but I'm not up to the task of building and
maintaining them.
Plus they'd cost rather a lot more money, too.
A bunch of Soneils wouldn't work particularly
quickly on their own, and
adding a bulk charger again makes a system that's
not been engineered
and tested *as a system*. Maybe I'll feel brave
enough to roll my own
system sometime in the future, but not with my first
vehicle.
Actually, what I'd like to see the most is a modular
system that is not
only a charger but a controller as well. I've
posted about it before.
Ken Trough just posted about a NASA-developed
switching matrix that can
switch batteries in and out of service for either
charging or powering
the vehicle. My idea is essentially the same thing,
but the switching
matrix is distributed through the battery pack,
making it into
basically a high-tech intelligent contactor
controller.
The benefit is complete flexibility in designing or
redesigning your
vehicle (add or subtract batteries at will), and a
simpler design task.
No more deciding which controller or charger -
just get one module per
battery. You could mix different battery
chemistries, too, as long as
each module knew how to treat its own battery. Low
batteries would no
longer limit your range - they stop getting
discharged before they get
damaged. It just makes all kind of sense to me.
Drawbacks include a high cost per module and the
possibility that I'm a
complete nutjob.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just stumbled onto this site this morning:
http://www.electric7.com/
It is an AC drive NiMH powered EV project, using NiMH batteries salvaged
from hybrid electric cars. Anyone know anything about this one? Do those
look like Prius batteries?
What I want to know is, have there REALLY been enough hybrids junked
already to be able to salvage batteries?
And what are they using for a charger? Those photos never loaded on my
computer.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I just stumbled onto this site this morning:
http://www.electric7.com/
It is an AC drive NiMH powered EV project, using NiMH batteries
salvaged from hybrid electric cars. Anyone know anything about this
one? Do those look like Prius batteries?
I still love the idea of a Electric 7!
Those certainly look like Prius batteries to me. I'd guess about 4.5
Prius packs.
Am I the only one concerned about the gear ratio?
Can they really get a high enough numerical (low gear) ratio in a
differential to run that motor up to speed?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I expect the AC Propulsion solution (designed for a specific vehicle)
> to be popular with car companies who mass-produce their vehicles. I
> expect the modular approach to be popular with hobbyists,
> experimenters, and people who want great flexibility. Unfortunately
> the modular approach will almost certainly be more expensive than the
> monolithic approach, so I may never see it happen.
I thought AC Propulsion quoted about $25K for a controller/motor combination
when I talked with
them on the phone. I think a hobbyist could do a lot for $25K.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check the price of a Semiens lately?
Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:--- Doug Weathers wrote:
> I expect the AC Propulsion solution (designed for a specific vehicle)
> to be popular with car companies who mass-produce their vehicles. I
> expect the modular approach to be popular with hobbyists,
> experimenters, and people who want great flexibility. Unfortunately
> the modular approach will almost certainly be more expensive than the
> monolithic approach, so I may never see it happen.
I thought AC Propulsion quoted about $25K for a controller/motor combination
when I talked with
them on the phone. I think a hobbyist could do a lot for $25K.
Dave Cover
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 11:29:10AM -0800, Electro Automotive wrote:
>
> And what are they using for a charger? Those photos never loaded on my
> computer.
I think his web server might be overloaded.
Try this:
http://www.electric7.com.nyud.net:8090/
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also try
www.carltonbrown.com
--- Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 11:29:10AM -0800, Electro
> Automotive wrote:
> >
> > And what are they using for a charger? Those
> photos never loaded on my
> > computer.
>
> I think his web server might be overloaded.
>
> Try this:
>
> http://www.electric7.com.nyud.net:8090/
>
> > * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from
> message *
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I've seen multicolor, multilead LEDs that can put out a full
> spectrum from a single unit - that could give you 7 outputs
> (white/blue/green/yellow/orange/red/violet) per battery.
Yes; they are expensive, but cute. Saves a lot of panel space, too! But
it will take a bit more circuitry to drive them.
The circuit I posted a few months back with a red, yellow, and green LED
required separate wires for each LED. These red/greed/blue LEDs have 4
leads; one for each anode and a common cathode.
My circuit had a zener, resistor, a red, a yellow, and a green LED all
in series. The LEDs had a resistor in parallel to trim the exact voltage
where they began to light (something like 120, 150, and 180 ohms as I
recall). This was adequate for a quick-and-dirty low/medium/high
display, but the LED brightness varied noticeably with battery voltage.
> Alternatively, how about a single set of LEDs (or one of the above)
> with a number readout for which battery is being monitored and just
> have the system "scoll through the pack".
Yes, this would work too. There are *endless* numbers of schemes to do
this, each with its own strengths and weaknesses. You just have to pick
one that you like, and that matches your skills.
Just remember that the Perfect is the enemy of the Good. Don't strive
for perfection, and design a system so complicated that you never get it
built or installed, and so have nothing in instead!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's three that I know of now.
E2V's Kit-E-Kat (based on a Tiger kit)
The Electric 7 (based on a Birkin S3)
My EClubman (based on PRB - Birkin S3)
Does anyone have any contact details for the owner of the Electric 7
(Carlton Brown?)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Otmar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 27 November 2004 6:46 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Impressive NiMH conversion on the Web
>Hi folks,
>
>I just stumbled onto this site this morning:
>
>http://www.electric7.com/
>
>It is an AC drive NiMH powered EV project, using NiMH batteries
>salvaged from hybrid electric cars. Anyone know anything about this
>one? Do those look like Prius batteries?
I still love the idea of a Electric 7!
Those certainly look like Prius batteries to me. I'd guess about 4.5
Prius packs.
Am I the only one concerned about the gear ratio?
Can they really get a high enough numerical (low gear) ratio in a
differential to run that motor up to speed?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 24 Nov 2004 at 12:38, Lee Hart wrote:
> > Any idea if superglue is a good heat conductor?
>
I don't know whether it's a GOOD heat conductor, but I've seen what feels
and looks like RTV silicone used to mount semiconductors to a chassis in
VERY cheap electronic devices.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Americans are satisfied with things because they are large; and
if not large, they must have cost a great deal of money.
-- Lepel Henry Griffin, ca. 1885
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I am not sure but it looks lsimilar to the NLG (Brusa) charger software
I used with their 4xx series units. Maybe it is a later release?
Seth
On Nov 26, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Electro Automotive wrote:
I just stumbled onto this site this morning:
http://www.electric7.com/
It is an AC drive NiMH powered EV project, using NiMH batteries
salvaged from hybrid electric cars. Anyone know anything about this
one? Do those look like Prius batteries?
What I want to know is, have there REALLY been enough hybrids junked
already to be able to salvage batteries?
And what are they using for a charger? Those photos never loaded on
my computer.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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A local auto repair has 3 of the ICE versions parked in front and a trailer with
BirkinSport.com on it, but the site has no other info. I've seen one of them
running around town - cute but kinda noisy.
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Noted EV book author dies:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/25/books/25perrin.html?oref=login
--
Brad - voice mail: 703-935-7647
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Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Voltage by itself is not a good indicator of state of charge. You also
need to take the battery current (and to a lesser extent, temperature)
into account.
well the plan is to actually take samplings of the motor shunt every second or
so. accumulate that into a variable, lets say X. take samplings until the
battery voltage reaches a certian voltage such as 70V. at wich point the total
AH represented by X would be my "Fuel" scale. would that work?
You can measure voltage alone under no load. After a several-hour rest,
13.0v is about 100% SOC, and 12.0v is 0% SOC.
You can measure voltage under load, and use 10.5v as the 0% SOC "dead"
ending point.
Or, you can have your microcomputer monitor battery voltage, current,
and temperature, and use a more complicated algorithm.
Most switchers run fine on DC, so I don't understand what the MOSFET is
for. The main problem I see is that some switchers use a voltage doubler
configuration on their input, and this circuit does need AC. So, are you
inverting the AC input so you can keep the voltage doubler?
after examining the schematic, I noticed a transformer that converts the
incoming voltage to usable level for a 5V regulator that is used by the
circuit. also it looks like some of the circuitry uses the incoming sine wave
(in this case a square wave) as a clock reference. for this particular
switching pwr supply at least.....
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! � Get yours free!
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:04:59 -0000
From: "joe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: rav 4 for lease?/sale
There is an ad in the Wednesday LA times for a RAV 4 electric lease transfer
option. It is listed for 38,500.
The phone number is 818-761-9172.
That is all I know. Good luck.
Joe Padula
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Saw this on another list. Thought some of you might like the info.
LR.......
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 04:36:44 -0000
From: "oldnixie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Yes Virginia! we have Chevrolet S-10EV's for sale
Though we have kept it a secret for nearly a year, we sell Gen2 Chevrolet S-
10EV's.
Our sales backlog had kept us very busy, selling only by word of mouth. We
are finally geting ahead of the orders.
Yes, these are extraordinary OEM EV's you can actually OWN, for half the
price of a Toyota Rav4 EV lease assumption (previous EVFS list post).
In stock now:
(1) 1998 NiMH S-10EV, 20k miles (including a full coverage warranty and LPI
gen2 charger) $19,500
(1) 1997 Panasonic PbA S-10EV, 9k miles (including a full coverage warranty
and LPI gen2 charger) $12,750
If you are interested in either, please visit the web site below.
http://www.evbones.com
Chevrolet S-10EV sales and support
Thanks for your time, Jeff
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Okay, so I'm a bit late in responding, but I don't think anyone else
gave you a clear answer. It's due to the fact that your Raptor limits
output *current,* not *power.*
If you start out in 4th gear, you are no doubt going to be sourcing the
full 600A motor side, which means the Raptor is going into current
limit. However, since the motor's not spinning at full speed yet,
there's no back EMF and the output voltage is very low. Say, for
example, the output voltage is 10V -- this is 10V * 600A = 6kW output
from the controller. Now since power out = power in, if you have a
120V pack, that means you're only drawing 6000/120 = 50A battery-side.
Thus your Raptor's doing its job at 600A, but if you're not delivering
maximum power to the motor. 6kW will get you nowhere fast. Much
better is to start in first or second, at which point the motor quickly
spins up and generates back EMF, but you don't want EMF to go so high
that it keeps you from drawing the full 600A. Kind of a delicate
balance.
Anyway, I believe the solution to your problem is to buy a Zilla, or
deal with slow acceleration. Sorry :/
-Ben
Hi,
Here's something which I've wondered about for a while:
I have a Raptor 600 controller, on which I have the potentiometer for
current limit turned all the way up (max current). I have a 0-400 amp
ammeter on the battery side of the controller, with the shunt inserted
between the controller/motor (-) buss bar and the (-) contactor.
Watching the ammeter while driving around, I notice that the higher the
gear I'm in, the less battery amps I can pull. For example, I can get
the ammeter to read 400 amps (peg) if I floor it in 1st gear. However,
if I shift to 2nd gear, I can't seem to pull more than about 350 amps
with the accelerator floored. 3rd gear starts to get bad, as I can't
get
more than about 280 amps, and 4th gear is practically unusable as I
can't seem to pull more than about 210 amps, no matter what. And I do
have to start out in 1st gear because I can't get going in any
reasonable amount of time from 2nd (3rd is impossible).
I realize that there is a difference in battery and motor amps, but I
don't fully understand why. Is it because of a difference in input vs.
output voltage of the controller, or what?
My biggest problem is that my acceleration in the higher gears is
horrible because I can't seem to pull enough current from the
batteries.
I realize that this is probably because the Raptor is hitting it's max
output of 600 motor amps and is going into current limit as the LEDs
indicate (In fact, according to the LEDs, my controller is always in
current limit when I floor it, no matter what gear). What I don't
understand is this: why does it hit current limit so much sooner in the
higher gears (and less battery amps get drawn)? I'm guessing it is
related to torque and the transmission?
Thanks for any insight on this.
-Nick
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On 26 Nov 2004 at 17:54, Brad Waddell wrote:
> Noted EV book author dies:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/25/books/25perrin.html?oref=login
>
The New York Times page requires registration. Could you please at least
tell us who it is?
Thanks.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Their talk was the talk of sordid buccaneers: it was
reckless without hardihood, greedy without audacity,
and cruel without courage; there was not an atom of
foresight ... in the whole batch of them, and they did
not seem aware these things are wanted for the work of
the world.
-- Joseph Conrad, "Heart of Darkness"
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Noel Perrin. Try this more accessible link.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/obituaries/articles/2004/11/23/noel_perrin_at_77_teacher_writer_of_essays_on_rural_life/
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What are the drawbacks to using a large buck converter to produce
around 18V, then using smaller, regulated buck converters in parallel
on each individual battery? Would that just be overkill? It's sort of
like using Rudman regs, only each reg is actually a small switching
power supply. But, design is simplified since it's only stepping down
from 18V.
I suppose one large drawback is that the main unit for a 20A charger
would have to produce 20A * # of batteries = lots of amps, but it might
make a little more sense than using that many individual power
supplies. Then again, I suspect if it were really nothing wrong with
it, someone would be doing it already.
-Ben
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I know this has been covered in depth, and I know the risks and dangers
as previously discussed in depth.
Apparently you can't combine 2 120VAC feeds if there is a GFCI on either
of them as combining the two feeds will make the GFCI trip. I was
wondering about using two UPSs on the same project.
Could you support the two 120VAC legs on two UPS boxes and still combine
the two 120VAC outputs from the two UPSs into the single 240V socket?
The 240V electronics we are using will fry if one of the 120V legs goes
down unexpectedly, so we were looking for some measure of protection and
thought that the 30 seconds of power and the alarm that the UPSs could
provide would give us enough time to shut everything down to protect
it.
I was concerned that by combining the output of two 120V UPS outlets,
I'd essentially have the same issue as the GFCI and would trip a breaker
or smoke a UPS.
Any input or insight? Thanks in advance.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
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The author in question was an EV author and Dartmouth professor for more
than fourty years. Noel Perrin died on Sunday at his home in VT at age
77 of a degenerative neurological disorder. He wrote (among other books)
"Solo: Life With an Electric Car" in 1992 about a cross country trip
that apparently involved little driving and abundant towing.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
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