EV Digest 3960
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: The 200sx is alive!!
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Ampabout, or That EV Grin
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Most people wouldn't admit this...
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Warning: The Hydrogen Economy May Be More Distant Than It Appears
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Warning: The Hydrogen Economy May Be More Distant Than It Appears
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: (fwd) Re: NEON- Bombarding Transformer Power
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: eCycle, new thread
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: (fwd) Re: NEON- Bombarding Transformer Power
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Automotive execs should read 'State of Fear'
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Millipak vs inductance of PERM PMG 132 motor
by mark ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Millipak vs inductance of PERM PMG 132 motor
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Troubleshooting the ADC
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: simple and cost effective
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Troubleshooting the ADC
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Factory Service Manuals
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: eCycle, was Re: Real or Memorex?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Warning: The Hydrogen Economy May Be More Distant Than It Appears
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Factory Service Manuals
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Warning: The Hydrogen Economy May Be More Distant Than It Appears
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) hub motors, where can I find them forsale to the general public?
by Bob Hoehne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) OT: Re: Warning: The Hydrogen Economy May Be More Distant Than It Appears
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
nice work ryan. when I get the 240Z done, you, me, and steve clunn
should get our 240Z, 300ZX and 240SX together for a little
Datsun-nissan party :) Oh, and John Wayland can come too.
Congratulations again,
seth
On Dec 12, 2004, at 1:48 AM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hello Everyone,
After a year of planning, preparing, stealing homework time, and
freezing my rear off, I took the 200sx Electric Conversion out for a
spin! I'm not a ball-baby, but a few tears of joy were spilt. Wow!
Driving an electric is so amazingly cool! It was pretty darn zippy!
I was trying to be gentle with things, but the stylus just went crazy
dialing in 1000amps on the Palm pilot. That Zilla delivers! I can't
imagine what a Z2K would be like.
After the excitement of driving it around and taking neighbors for
rides (I live in an apartment complex and all my neighbors have kept
tabs on the conversion), the reality of battery management hit. Poor
Rich is stuck with all my PFC specific questions.
I'm just soaking it all up. There are lots of things to still be
done, but IT DRIVES!!
Thanks so much to *everyone* on this list for all the help, advice,
and guidance. There is no way in the world this would have happened
if it weren't for all the knowledge and encouragement this list has
given me. I hope I can give back some of what I've received.
Thanks again!
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
Christmas Discounts throughout the season!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--
'72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Congrats on getting an EV, now there are two in Brunswick (well sort
of).
I'm guessing you're stationed at BNAS? Next time you're back in
Brunswick, drop me an email. I'm on Maine St out by Parkview Hospital.
Come over and see the 240Z.
(the other) Seth
On Dec 13, 2004, at 6:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is probably going out as HTML but I can't access my smtp server
here in Japan so maybe someone who actually recieves it can forward it
in text form so the Digesters on the list can get it too. Thanks.
Wow, that sounds so good. Ampabout. I've wanted to be able to
write
that for so long and now that I'm "in the club", I can. I bought the
72v
1980 Volkswagen Rabbit from Seth and I couldn't have a bigger EV grin.
First, I want to say thanks again to Seth for selling his car at such a
bargain price. Arigato, arigato, arigato. I couldn't have afforded an
EV
without his generosity. He could have easily sold it whole or parted it
out for more money. I'd also like to thank the Academy........ ;-) And
my apologies to the guy on the list who was selling the Elcar and to
Snow EV. I had planned on buying an Elcar and a new controller from
Snow
but this opportunity came along and I couldn't pass it up.
My first EV grin with the Rabbit happened in Seth's driveway. Before
we hooked it up to my truck to tow it home, we drove it around for a
few
minutes so he could show me how to properly drive it. Throughout the
entire buying process he kept emphasizing how slow it is with just a
6.7" motor but it honestly has plenty of oomph for a simple commuter,
which is what I want out of this car. We hooked it up with a bumper tow
kit and I towed it home to Brunswick, ME. When I got home I took my
kids
for a ride around the block and my oldest daughter christened it Mouse,
because, she said, it's as quiet as one. I think she likes the car as
much as I do.
I'm in Japan right now and I don't know when I'll get back with many
tours extended because of O.I.F., but it shouldn't be, at the worst,
more than six months. When I get back I plan on going through the
entire
car to get it ready for the road. Seth gave me a lot of information
about Mouse but if any previous owners are on the list please send me
information about the history of the car; how did it catch on fire, who
originally commissioned the conversion, etc.
The car is in very rough shape. Don't take what I'm saying as
complaining, I'm just explaining what condition it's in. Even in the
condition it's in now, I honestly feel it is a privilege to own and
drive and I grin even when I'm just thinking about it. The interior is
in bad shape. When I took my brother for a spin he said, not in a
demeaning way, it smells like a first car. I plan on stripping
everything out and thoroughly shampooing the interior. I also need to
find a new rear seat and make a headliner. Both were damaged in a
battery fire. I'm going to line the interior with Dynamat to make it
even quieter, does anyone know of a cheaper option to deaden sound?
There is lots of corrosion which needs to be dealt with and I'm going
to
go through the brakes and repack the bearings to make sure they are up
to snuff. Here is a list of the rest of the things I want to do to the
car:
-I'm going to replace the battery pack. I need to keep costs as low
as possible so I want to try and keep the motor and controller (a 6.7"
and a Curtis) and maximize what they are capable of. My commute is only
about 12.5 to 13 miles so I don't need a huge battery pack. I haven't
used the online range calculator (here in on base in Japan our only
online access is dialup with 15 hours a month so I have to budget my
time) but I believe the 72v pack should be more than sufficient. The
only question is how I will compose the pack. Twelve 6v floodeds or two
strings of six 12v Exide orbitals? What are the advantages to two
strings as opposed to the 6v? Disadvantages? With two strings of 12v
Exides, would the performance increase be noticeable and would I get
the
same or nearly the same range? If I keep the 6.7" and used the 12v
battery pack, will I need to cool the motor with a blower? Should I
cool
it anyhow? Any other options I don't know about? Can the Curtis and ADC
handle 12v Exides? Performance isn't vital to me but I admit it would
be
nice to have. Whichever battery pack I choose, I'm going to put a
battery balancer system on it to make them last as long as possible.
What are the name of the balancers that have the flashing LEDs?
-A new charger is needed also. It currently has a Lester but I need
a smart charger that I can plug in when I get home and the pack is
ready
to go in the morning. I remember Victor once saying that a good charger
is even more important than getting the most advanced batteries. What
are my options? I want a smart charger that I can use for the 72v pack
I
currently have but that can be also used with up to 144v if I ever
change the system.
-I believe the 8" has the same bolt pattern as the 6.7". If I ever
find an 8 incher at a bargain price I'd like to swap them out. I think
the Curtis is 72v at 400 amps. Could I use this controller with an 8"?
What would be the effect on performance and range?
-I recently bought a plastic welder and I am going to use it to
build new battery boxes out of plastic and put battery heaters in them.
Currently the forward 4 batteries aren't covered and the rear batteries
are enclosed in plywood. What do most people use for heaters? Is it run
separately off of 110v AC or is it powered through the charger when the
batteries are charging? I also plan to put a belly pan on the car to
smooth out the airflow and enclose the engine compartment. At 72v and a
commute with a maximum speed of 40 mph this car won't see any highway
speeds for the near future. How much of a difference would a bellypan
make in regards to range for a low speed EV? Is it worth the extra
weight or should I just enclose the engine compartment and leave the
rest of the belly exposed. I also might replace the aging Goodyear
Invictas with newer LLR tires. It depends on what kind of condition the
Goodyears are in.
-The trainy is very sloppy. I usually can't tell if I'm in 1st or
2nd and I have to physically hold it in reverse to make sure it doesn't
pop out of gear. Is this a problem with the transmission or is it a
shifter problem? I'm also going to replace the xmsn fluid with
something
less viscous like Redline MT-90 or 75w90. Any other ideas?
-There is a lot of corrosion on the motor itself. Should I take it
off or would it be better to just leave it? I wouldn't want to take the
chance on getting something inside the motor and damaging it when it
would have been ok to just leave it on the motor. But then I also want
something that looks nice.
-Seth included a lot of extra parts in the sale, among them a
kilowatt meter like you find on the side of a house to track total
energy used. How do you reset these meters to zero? How do I hardwire
it
to the pack? Are there any precautions I need to take to keep any
damage
from occurring to the pack or charger?
That's about all I have time to write for now. If anyone has any
other ideas on how I can improve this EV please feel free to pass it
along. Also, Japan is awesome! They have such cool cars. Everywhere I
look, I see great candidates for conversion to EV. It's nice to see a
society not obsessed with gas guzzling SUVs. The only humvees I see
around here aren't driven by Soccer Moms but by people actually in the
military. Imagine that ;-).
John Shelton
1980 72 volt Rabbit
__________________________________________________________________
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--
'72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...I haven't timed in yet in the 0-60, but when I get things figured
out good, I'll go out late at night and play around to get numbers.
Then I'll award the best guess with that CafeElectric T-shirt. I hope
I win :) It's not real fair - I can tally up everyones guesses and
average them out. But I'll be fair and shoot something off - 12.5.
If anyone still wants to put in a guess, let me know.
I'll guess 13. I can always use more T-shirts :) Lets see some photos.
seth
--
'72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Very interesting- During the political races it was
all hyped up that Fuel cells were nearly there. Now
this pops up after the elections. Too bad the truth
was not published then. But then who would of read it
except for us. And just and FYI here is an interesting
picture of a 2004 desktop as described by Popular
Mechanics in 1954. A little off topic but I thought it
might bring a laugh or two.
--- "Brown, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just got my new Popular Science magazine and low and
> behold they have a GREAT article debunking many of
> the myths surrounding the "hydrogen economy".
>
> The article is also on their website at:
>
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/generaltech/article/0,20967,927469,00.html
>
<http://www.popsci.com/popsci/generaltech/article/0,20967,927469,00.html>
>
>
> The ten items they talk about.
>
> 1. HYDROGEN IS AN ABUNDANT FUEL
> 2. HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS WILL END GLOBAL WARMING
> 3. THE HYDROGEN ECONOMY CAN RUN ON RENEWABLE ENERGY
> 4. HYDROGEN GAS LEAKS ARE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT
> 5. CARS ARE THE NATURAL FIRST APPLICATION FOR
> HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS
> 6. THE U.S. IS COMMITTED TO HYDROGEN, POURING
> BILLIONS INTO R&D
> 7. IF ICELAND CAN DO IT, SO CAN WE
> 8. MASS PRODUCTION WILL MAKE HYDROGEN CARS
> AFFORDABLE
> 9. FUEL CELL CARS CAN DRIVE HUNDREDS OF MILES ON A
> SINGLE TANK OF HYDROGEN
> 10. IF NOT HYDROGEN, THEN WHAT?
>
>
>
> Jay
>
>
>
__________________________________
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Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to the article, power plants produce twice as many emissions
nationally as the car tailpipes. So even for a BEV, would we be increasing
emissions by using electricity?
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 9:03 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Warning: The Hydrogen Economy May Be More Distant Than It
Appears
Very interesting- During the political races it was
all hyped up that Fuel cells were nearly there. Now
this pops up after the elections. Too bad the truth
was not published then. But then who would of read it
except for us. And just and FYI here is an interesting
picture of a 2004 desktop as described by Popular
Mechanics in 1954. A little off topic but I thought it
might bring a laugh or two.
--- "Brown, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just got my new Popular Science magazine and low and
> behold they have a GREAT article debunking many of
> the myths surrounding the "hydrogen economy".
>
> The article is also on their website at:
>
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/generaltech/article/0,20967,927469,00.html
>
<http://www.popsci.com/popsci/generaltech/article/0,20967,927469,00.html>
>
>
> The ten items they talk about.
>
> 1. HYDROGEN IS AN ABUNDANT FUEL
> 2. HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS WILL END GLOBAL WARMING
> 3. THE HYDROGEN ECONOMY CAN RUN ON RENEWABLE ENERGY
> 4. HYDROGEN GAS LEAKS ARE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT
> 5. CARS ARE THE NATURAL FIRST APPLICATION FOR
> HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS
> 6. THE U.S. IS COMMITTED TO HYDROGEN, POURING
> BILLIONS INTO R&D
> 7. IF ICELAND CAN DO IT, SO CAN WE
> 8. MASS PRODUCTION WILL MAKE HYDROGEN CARS
> AFFORDABLE
> 9. FUEL CELL CARS CAN DRIVE HUNDREDS OF MILES ON A
> SINGLE TANK OF HYDROGEN
> 10. IF NOT HYDROGEN, THEN WHAT?
>
>
>
> Jay
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:28:16 -0500 (EST), Derrick J Brashear
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Neon John wrote:
>
>> Panty-waisted limp wrists, liberal drones and the computer.helpless use
>> MacOS.
>
>MacOS is Unix. I have code in the Linux kernel, and a pile of other
>projects, so I must be one of the first 2;-)
Ohhh, my sympathies. I've done my best to leave the hacking world behind,
though it seems impossible with the current state of Linux. I WAS amazed
that apple went out on a limb that far. I'd love to see what they did to
make Linux user-proof.
>
>> WinXP on this laptop
>
>not geeky enough. i had linux on my laptop before the current mac.
Well I DO have to get some actual work done here and there. You know,
QuickBooks, Excel, Corel, that kind of stuff. yeah, I've tried StarOffice
and GIMP but they're pathetic jokes compared to the real things. I would
NOT have microslob stuff here if I didn't have to.
>
>more on-topic, i have this vague plan to use a gps receiver, gpsd, and
>possibly an extension to xastir to help me track energy usage, eventually.
>in particular, tracking elevations, distances and speeds (hopefully
>against battery use, but i need more gear for that) will tell me what kind
>of efficiency i see, and give me hints what to do about it.
I ran into a guy at a hamfest last summer who was selling a pile of
Trimble OEM GPS modules and active antennae very cheap. I bought several.
I wrote Trimble and got them to send me the developer's docs and utilities
gratis. Very nice little receiver. I made up a TTL/RS-232 board to
interface it to this laptop and ran around for awhile with it feeding
Street Atlas. It showed much less static scatter than the DeLorme
hockeypuck receiver bundled with SA. I might even be able to find the
guy's card among my desk.debris if you're still interested.
I've been thinking along the same lines but I think that would end up
being a rather large software project. There's an outfit in England,
can't recall the name right now even though I've bought their products,
that offers a black box solution. It's a gps-based data logger designed
for car racing applications. It contains a high performance (10 updates
per second) GPS receiver feeding a rather conventional automotive data
logger. It uses the GPS data to generate a best guess layout of the track
to display the logged data on. Or one can run the track edge to record
the layout. It computes a number of parameters such as speed, hp, torque,
drag, etc plus it has a visual basic interface for custom derived
measurements.
Feed one of the analog inputs with shunt output and another with scaled
pack voltage, perhaps another with throttle position and there you are.
The basic system is about $500, depending on the exchange rate. About
$1000 will get you a version with a high performance, high precision GPS
receiver (ovenized oscillator, etc). If you're at all interested, I'll
try to dig around and find my dead tree file.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am doing research to build my own e-cycle. all
ideas appreciated. It will be built on a tadpole
trike format. I have gotten that far. I would like
to start with a greenspeed and heinzman motor wisolar
cells like on their website but it costs too much and
I am leaning toward a "totally electric solution. by
this I intend to pedal a generator not the bike. also
I would like to stear it like a robot or tracked
vehicle and use regen for 90% of the breaking also by
wire not physical linkage. I will have a physical
emergency break and emergency cut off but all the rest
by wire. this is about as far as i have gotten into
the design. so the first thing I would like
help/advice with is the pedal generator. all I have
come across use either a bike in a stand or a huge
flywheel neither of which will work for my project. I
am looking for a reduction gear driven generator that
is in the 80 to 150 watt catagory. If any of you know
of one of the that is premade i would appreciate info.
kEVs
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'd tried contacting them in April of 1999, and
> commented that it seemed to be "vapor-ware" (e.g.
> mostly smoke and mirrors):
>
http://solstice.crest.org/discussion/ev/199904/msg00906.html
> Here is the core of the email:
> ------------------
> I sent for the info package, and gripped about the
> web page being fluffy, with no hard numbers and got
> this reply:
> "
> The brochure we are sending you should answer many
> of your questions. The
> web page was designed to have you respond to us
> with inquiries. The
> eCycle is expected to be available next year and
> should retail for about
> $4000. You are welcome to come visit us and see
> that the eCycle is not
> vapor ware. Please let us know if you have any
> further questions.
> "
> That was it, not even a sig line. The return
> address was ""eCycle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" but the
> sender was "[EMAIL PROTECTED] (ecycle)".
> ------------------
> Here it is 4 1/2 years later and we still only see
> the smoke.
> OTOH, my Honda Goldwing conversion is still not
> done, and has only been driven around the block at
> 25mph with borrowed plates. But then I'm a hobbyist,
> I don't claim to do this for a living.
>
> Mike Shipway
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 06:35 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: eCycle, was Re: Real or Memorex?
> >
> > Ken quickly there are more problems than just the
> hype with Ecycle...
> > Where they go thier motors designed... how the
> controllers were intended to
> > work were all problematic.
> > There was a lack of solid enginnering support,
> and then a LOT of upset
> > customers....
> > They got the flash and smoke down, but they got
> there with a shakey
> > foundation. Now what they really need is solid
> product or we write them all
> > off as Scam artists.
> > What hurts is all ther promblems could have been
> solved with a couple of
> > phone calls to the right motor and controller
> folks....here on this list.
> > Thier drive was a BLDC drive, the motor in the
> Ecycle is the same kind as
> > the one in the Minibike from hell, and I have a
> marine drive that used the
> > proto type they cloned thier big motor from.
> > I have driven the marine motor out on Lake Mead,
> and the Minibike has been
> > seen in a number of places.
> > So... They needed a motor/controller Geek.
> > They kept biffing the controller. Then said it was
> too hard to make, and
> > took advanced designs.
> > There are atleast 6 of us here on this list,
> besides me....That consider
> > BLDC simple design work nowdays.
> >
> > The 'could have beens' in this light EV world are
> what is ripping my heart
> > out. The Greed, before the hard work to make a
> real difference, just
> > tarnishes the whole buisness.
> >
> >
>
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004, Neon John wrote:
Panty-waisted limp wrists, liberal drones and the computer.helpless use
MacOS.
MacOS is Unix. I have code in the Linux kernel, and a pile of other
projects, so I must be one of the first 2;-)
Ohhh, my sympathies. I've done my best to leave the hacking world behind,
though it seems impossible with the current state of Linux. I WAS amazed
that apple went out on a limb that far. I'd love to see what they did to
make Linux user-proof.
MacOS is unix, not linux. linux is a unix clone, close enough, not not
unix. basically, unless you run terminal.app or x11.app and get an xterm,
you won't notice that it's unix. if you just run word, excel, safari,
mail.app, it's just a pretty gui with some applications.
i run about a dozen xterms, several other apps, a few of them java, a web
browser, a mail client, and virtualpc. i'm strange;-)
WinXP on this laptop
not geeky enough. i had linux on my laptop before the current mac.
Well I DO have to get some actual work done here and there. You know,
QuickBooks, Excel, Corel, that kind of stuff. yeah, I've tried StarOffice
and GIMP but they're pathetic jokes compared to the real things. I would
NOT have microslob stuff here if I didn't have to.
microsoft office runs on unix. macos is unix, remember;-) gimp wants to be
photoshop. photoshop *is* photoshop.
I ran into a guy at a hamfest last summer who was selling a pile of
Trimble OEM GPS modules and active antennae very cheap. I bought several.
SVee6 CM3? I have a pile. A company called bgmicro.com had them for like
$15 or $20 and I bought a bunch. I got Motorolas sans antenna from them a
few weeks later.
I wrote Trimble and got them to send me the developer's docs and utilities
Available as PDF online. Or you can just flash NMEA firmware onto them and
it's "just a GPS receiver".
I've been thinking along the same lines but I think that would end up
being a rather large software project. There's an outfit in England,
if you start looking at open source, most of the pieces you want exist.
gpsd multiplexes and parses nmea data from the gps. xastir will display
maps, and does basically everything short of route finding. if you're in
the u.s., a primitive route finder using (free) us census data is
available, but the census data lacks elevations. you can get elevations
out of usgs data. so you need a script to conflate the line graphs with
elevation data, and then you could write a "least grade" route finder.
sick, huh?
then it's just a matter of interfacing with current draw from the car, and
battery monitoring.
Feed one of the analog inputs with shunt output and another with scaled
pack voltage, perhaps another with throttle position and there you are.
will you mock me if i suggest there's probably a cheaper way, involving a
usb audio dongle?
The basic system is about $500, depending on the exchange rate. About
$1000 will get you a version with a high performance, high precision GPS
receiver (ovenized oscillator, etc). If you're at all interested, I'll
try to dig around and find my dead tree file.
i'm at least curious. don't waste a lot of time on it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[The audio book version is flying by on Usenet right now. ]
Automotive execs should read 'State of Fear'
The Detroit News 12/15/04
Detroit automakers are suing to overturn a California regulatory
body's requirement that carbon dioxide emissions of cars sold there
be reduced 30 percent by 2013. Global warming is a federal issue,
not a state issue, lawyers for the automakers cautiously assert.
But a far better argument might be: What global warming?
Oh, I know, there is a consensus among scientists that global
warming is real, that it's caused by man-made emissions of
greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and that unless those
emissions are reduced -- and quickly -- mankind will suffer some
terrible consequences.
But there remain strong reasons to be skeptical of the global
warming scenarios peddled by scientists on the United Nations
payroll.
The gap between theory and reality is so wide, in fact, that a
famous novelist, Michael Crichton, has penned a whole novel arguing
that global warming is, well, fiction.
Titled State of Fear, the novel turns the world upside down: The
environmentalists become the bad guys, a wealthy retired
industrialist becomes the good guy and the scientist turns out to be
James Bond. The industrialist learns of shenanigans at an
environmental organization he has been generously funding. When he
starts asking questions he soon uncovers a dastardly plot to cover
up the truth about climate change -- which is that there is no
scientific consensus, except that generated by garbage-in,
garbage-out computer models.
Truth be told, State of Fear is pretty bad -- 603 pages of stick
figures and preachy dialogue, laced with implausible action
sequences amid lots of charts and footnotes about temperature
trends. When is the last time you read a novel with a lengthy
bibliography at the end?
But Crichton isn't chopped liver. He is the author of such
successful blockbusters as The Andromeda Strain and Jurassic Park.
State of Fear already is climbing the best-seller lists. And global
warming enthusiasts are clearly worried.
A scurrilous smear, complained the Natural Resources Defense Council
to the New York Times. Crichton's selective citation of isolated
data gives the book an undeserved aura of authority, asserts the
NRDC.
That's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, though. NRDC is
the outfit that gave us, among other things, the infamous Alar
scare, which nearly put the apple farming industry out of business
in the late 1980s by falsely claiming that a growth-regulating
chemical widely used by apple farmers could cause cancer in
children. And while Crichton may have been selective in his use of
sources, nobody questions that those sources exist -- and that they
challenge the so-called global warming consensus.
A careful reading of studies by many true scientists shows that even
they have lots of serious questions about the hypothesis that
greenhouse gas emissions will lead to an unmanageable meltdown.
Recent efforts to portray a one-degree warming in the 20th century
as unusual have come under severe attack as ignoring evidence that
the climate has long been subject to far more severe natural
fluctuations.
Crichton, a Harvard Medical School graduate (and the creator of the
hit TV series, ER), has always expressed great faith in science --
but also warned about its misuses, which have been alarmingly
regular. Indeed, he likens the scientific community's public embrace
of global warming to its shameful embrace a century ago of eugenics,
which held that there was a crisis of the gene pool that was leading
to deterioration of the human race -- an idea that Adolf Hitler used
to justify his extermination policies. And the research behind
eugenics was funded by such establishment institutions as the
Rockefeller Foundation and the Carnegie Foundation.
No, Crichton doesn't produce any smoking guns (except in the hands
of his fictional bad guys). But let's hope a few automotive execs
buy State of Fear. If they do nothing more than read Crichton's
bibliography, they would come to understand that there are far more
solid grounds on which to object to California's mischief than which
level of government has jurisdiction over what.
________________________________________
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Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone out there had any experience with the SEVCON Millipak 4q controller-in
particular I am trying to find out if a 19uh DC permanent magnet PMG 132 motor
made by PERM GMBH can be used without an addional inductor in series with the
SEVCON controller. Lacking an answer to this first question-from the few web
hits I have found on the SEVCON controller, it appears that it has been used
with the ETEK motor. Any idea what the inductance of the ETEK motor is?
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any idea what the inductance of the ETEK motor is?
My notes on E-Tek:
3/5/03 Measured at 28 micro henries. This was on a low current
handheld meter. hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> > We need a 12 jumper cable test to find out if both field pair
> > are in parallel.
>
> I got a chance to do a "12 volt" test. Unfortunately, it wasn't much of
> a 12 volt test as I never saw 12 volts with the motor running.
>
> See, the only spare 12 volt battery I have around is a hurt flooded one
> which my Wrangler did a good number on. So there was some bad voltage
> sag. I did two tests, with the Tach sensor ON and the motor hooked
> through the shunt.
>
> Try 1:
> Motor RPMs: 1000
> Motor Amps: 52A
> Volts: 10.60
>
> Try 2 (after charging the battery for awhile):
> Motor RPMs: 1100
> Motor Amps: 51A
> Volts: 11.32
It does indeed sound like there is still trouble inside the motor. I
would expect it to draw more like 30 amps no-load. There are four field
coils; I wonder if only two are still connected due to your damaged
terminal.
Note that the voltage you applied doesn't really affect the no-load
current much. Voltage just changes the speed. The current is the same
because the torque is the same (i.e. almost zero) in each case.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm afraif your LiIons won't be too happy in a 100V system.
This does not answer your question about controller though,
just wanted to sugest you to consider max battery current
for decent battery life, not only its capacity for range.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
EV folks
Hopefully a simple question. If you had 30x200A Li ion batteries giving just
over 100 Volts and intend to use an advanced dc 9.1inch motor, which would be
the preferred controller? (advanced dc don't seem to want to tell me!) I've
heard a Curtis may not be too happy with this set up. Right or wrong?
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
> I would expect it to draw more like
> 30 amps no-load.
I forgot to mention that this test was done with the motor still
installed in the Jeep. I had the clutch pedal pushed to the floor. But,
the motor was still spinning my aluminum hub/flywheel, and pressure
plate.
When I get the motor out of the Jeep I'll run a 12 volt test again so I
can do it with nothing attached to the motor shaft...
Thanks,
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
---------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2004-12-15 at 11:31, Lee Hart wrote:
> Nick Viera wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > We need a 12 jumper cable test to find out if both field pair
> > > are in parallel.
> >
> > I got a chance to do a "12 volt" test. Unfortunately, it wasn't much of
> > a 12 volt test as I never saw 12 volts with the motor running.
> >
> > See, the only spare 12 volt battery I have around is a hurt flooded one
> > which my Wrangler did a good number on. So there was some bad voltage
> > sag. I did two tests, with the Tach sensor ON and the motor hooked
> > through the shunt.
> >
> > Try 1:
> > Motor RPMs: 1000
> > Motor Amps: 52A
> > Volts: 10.60
> >
> > Try 2 (after charging the battery for awhile):
> > Motor RPMs: 1100
> > Motor Amps: 51A
> > Volts: 11.32
>
> It does indeed sound like there is still trouble inside the motor. I
> would expect it to draw more like 30 amps no-load. There are four field
> coils; I wonder if only two are still connected due to your damaged
> terminal.
>
> Note that the voltage you applied doesn't really affect the no-load
> current much. Voltage just changes the speed. The current is the same
> because the torque is the same (i.e. almost zero) in each case.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody know of a source for Factory Services Manuals besides helminc.com?
I bought the service manual for my EV from them, and I'd like to buy one for
my ICE car, too (2004 Nissan Quest), but helminc.com doesn't seem to carry
it. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was it, not even a sig line. The return address was ""eCycle"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>" but the sender was "[EMAIL PROTECTED] (ecycle)".
------------------
Here it is 4 1/2 years later and we still only see the smoke.
That's very funny. When I emailed them about the same time, I got a
similar response signed "Smokey".
I just figured it was confirmation of the smoke and mirrors appearence
this company has or that their engineer spends his time smoking and
dreaming rather than building and selling.
As for their motors and controllers, I knew there were some early
problems, but I didn't know they were widespread and ongoing.
I know that companies hype vaporous product all the time but for some
reason the BEV ecycle just struck a chord with me in terms of approach,
styling, and performance and has remained one of my biggest personal
disappointments or letdowns in this EV space. I actually saved money for
over a year for one of these. Glad I didn't risk sending it to them...
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> According to the article, power plants produce twice as many
> emissions nationally as the car tailpipes. So even for a BEV,
> would we be increasing emissions by using electricity?
The answer depends on a) what emissions you count as "pollution", and b)
what fuel is used to generate the electricity (coal, oil, natural gas,
hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, etc.).
The article focused on CO2, which is not yet considered a pollutant in
the USA. Thus CO2 emissions here are not regulated or limited. But it is
becoming clear that CO2 is causing global warming; thus much of the rest
of the world is working to reduce it.
Burning any fuel produces CO2 (gasoline, oil, natural gas, coal, wood,
alcohol, etc.) The more you burn, the more CO2 you make. The only way to
reduce CO2 is to burn less fuel. That's why it is politically unpopular
in the US; Americans don't *want* to burn less gas, oil, or coal!
If you charge your EV with electricity from a power plant that burns
coal, oil, or natural gas; then you *are* relocating your vehicle's
emissions to the power plant's smokestack. If this is an old, dirty
plant, its emissions will be worse than a new car with the latest
pollution control equipment.
But if you charge your EV with electricity from a non-fuel burning power
plant (hydro, nuclear, wind, solar, etc.), then you *are* reducing CO2
emissions.
Of course, the truth is that your electricity comes from a mix of power
plants, some of both kinds. The national average is about 50-50, and
varies depending on where you live, the time of day, year, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's out of stock for my '95 Odyssey, too.
TRY E-BAY! Seriously!
$29.95 for a $65 manual!
(;-p
--- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anybody know of a source for Factory Services
> Manuals besides helminc.com?
> I bought the service manual for my EV from them, and
> I'd like to buy one for
> my ICE car, too (2004 Nissan Quest), but helminc.com
> doesn't seem to carry
> it. Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to the article, power plants produce twice as many emissions
nationally as the car tailpipes. So even for a BEV, would we be
increasing emissions by using electricity?
This is an old argument, and that sounds to me like a sketchy factoid.
Whenever these numbers are batted around, it's always assumed that all
the cars in the picture are new, state of the art, and ultra low
emissions. This is obviously not the case in most of America. Even in
California where emission standards and car tailpipe sniffing are all
the rage, there are still many thousands (if not millions) of cars on
the road that smoke and stink to high heaven.
My take on all this is that it is easier and cheaper to monitor,
maintain, and scrub emissions from central power production locations
than from millions of older leaky cars that may or may not be properly
maintained and inspected. It's simply common sense.
Just because we do not currently clean emissions from coal burning power
plants nearly enough, doesn't mean that we can't improve that picture in
the future.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been searching for a few weeks now. I've found several companies claiming
to make such devices, I've seen pictures of many prototypes for years... But
now that I'd like to aquire some, I've found that to be the problem. If anyone
here could point me to a supplier, that'd be great.
Thanks,
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>According to the article, power plants produce twice
>as many emissions
>nationally as the car tailpipes. So even for a BEV,
>would we be increasing
>emissions by using electricity?
As Lee Hart pointed out, it depends on powerplant and what
is being compared.
One study by the California Air Resources Board showed
electric vehicles with power plant emissions factored in
would produce 98% fewer toxic emissions than an average 2002
model year car [1]. Another study shows that BEVs, in
contrast to a typical ICE vehicle, will produce 96% fewer
hydrocarbons, 99% less carbon monoxide, and 67% less
nitrogen oxides, while increasing production of sulfur
oxides and particulates, using America�s total power
generation mix, while still displacing the pollution away
from population centers [2]. In 1993, the Green Car journal
reported that from a strictly coal-fired plant,
hydrocarbons, nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide, and
particulate matter were reduced by a combined 71%[3].
However, one must keep in mind the dates said studys were
made and where the data was taken. One could argue that
newer cars are far cleaner than they were 10+ years ago(When
the data from two of the studys was presented), while
conversely, one could also argue that not only do most
people not own new cars, but the cars are only as clean as
'advertised' when they are in peak operating condition and
have been given time to warm up, and when their emissions
systems aren't degraded in any way. One could also point out
the fallacy on how the EPA conducts their measurements,
which could easily lead to a study that can be biased in
either arguments favor. You could also critiscize the orgin
of the study itself as coming from a source that may or may
not have an agenda to push.
But my own opinion? Displacing the pollution away from
population centers, whether it is increased or decreased, is
a plus, considering the damage associated with air
pollution. Without many recent sources to compare, it's hard
to compare with certainty EVs and ICEs in pollution, given
that no accurate figures have been given on the real
pollution associated with an ICE, but more or less favorable
figures to the ICE, with the same being said about the
certain emissions of some power plants. It only takes a few
people with a set agenda to skew the numbers, and it can in
fact work both ways. My viewpoint is by far closer to the
environmentalists than the execs, as you can tell, but form
your own opinion, and don't take my word for it. Likewise,
take numbers with a grain of salt.
Sources:
[1]
http://www.eaaev.org/Forms-Docs/eaaflyer-autoemissions.pdf
�Page 2 �According to the California Air Resources Board
(CARB), even when taking into account power plant emissions,
ZEVs are 98% cleaner than the average 2002 model year
vehicle and 95% cleaner than the lowest emitting
conventional vehicle (not including the well-to-tank
emissions for gas powered vehicles).�
[2] http://www.radix.net/~futurev/pwrplnt.pdf �Page 3 -
According to the chart presented in the study, 96% fewer
hydrocarbons, 99% less CO, 67% less NOx, 203% more SOx, and
112% more particulates would be produced by an EV in
contrast to a typical ICE car. However, it notes that all of
the emissions are displaced away from population centers in
the cities.
[3] �The Green Car Journal�, 1993, page 116--The chart
shows that coal fired plants produce total combined 71.2%
less pollutants, HC,CO,NOx & PM than comparative ICE
engines. This is due primarily to the coal gasification
(electrostatic smokestack precipitators) process regulated
by the EPA.
--- End Message ---
