EV Digest 3969
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: An Invitation to: The Nets Best Alternative Fuel Vehicle
Forums!
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: An Invitation to: The Nets Best Alternative Fuel Vehicle Forums!
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: I need Nicad batteries
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV digest 3968
by justin vandeusen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_EV_digest_3968?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: I need Nicad batteries
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV Taxes
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Just saying....
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) 2005 Tour de Sol announcement
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Manzanita Micro
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Hello Everyone,
> >
> I am new to the group but would like to invite
> anyone
> and everyone to come and visit my new forum set up
> for
> all types of alternative fuel vehicles including
> EV's.
<..snip..>
>
> -Justin
>
> > wwww.guffs.net/forums
Hi Justin,
Sorry to say this, but it looks like a dead fish to me.
I'm on forums using your same software with 2000+ members but I don't
see yours going that way.
As long as you require someone to register before they get to read a
post my humble prediction is that you'll drop into oblivion quite
quickly. I certainly won't join something so inconvenient.
We live in a fast paced world, with free information a given. I check
over 300 posts a day, running on a 3mb+ line. You'll need to do
better than that to catch us I think....
Now, back to the easy access wonderful simple text EVDL....
Thanks to everyone who is posting for making this one of my top lists!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:51:36 -0800, Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>As long as you require someone to register before they get to read a
>post my humble prediction is that you'll drop into oblivion quite
>quickly. I certainly won't join something so inconvenient.
>
>We live in a fast paced world, with free information a given. I check
>over 300 posts a day, running on a 3mb+ line. You'll need to do
>better than that to catch us I think....
Yep. First thought is, why yet another alternative fuel forum? Aren't
there enough already? Second thought, just another web-based board to
ignore. I'm like Otmar, I don't have the time to go out and search down
boards, nor the memory to remember to do so. And even on a 3mb DSL line,
most are slow because the host server is inadequate. Third thought, even
if I worked around the above issues, I don't have the patience to screw
around with all the formatting problems. 6 pt text and these old eyes
just don't go together.
>
>Now, back to the easy access wonderful simple text EVDL....
Amen. The web is good for many things but nothing beats a mailing list
for an online community.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>These are good batteries. Just be sure you are "up
>to" the task of
>properly maintaining them. Many beginning EVers
>murder their first pack
>from ignorance and abuse; it would be a shame for
>this to happen to an
>expensive pack of nicads.
That's what made me shy away from them, not to mention the
watering. The promise of power AND range is so darn tempting
though. With a decently-engineered EV, I could get 60+ miles
highway out of those BB600 NiCds without that nasty
Peukert's effect. For a similar cost to Optimas to boot. But
I know I'd f--- them up, some how, given this is going to be
my first EV. I'd go SAFT, if they had more power, but they
don't. 250 amps for a 6V nominal battery will simply not cut
it. If it was a 12V battery and it remained fairly stiff at
that draw, then I'd be giving them a look...
I'm worried about the Orbitals or Optimas I will be using,
no matter how forgiving I hear they are. I'm going to have
to treat the pack right with a PFC charger. I'm probably not
going to get Rich Brown performance out of my first EV, but
I'd eventually like to get it up there, or faster. *eyes
Otmar's 914 with jeaulosy*
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"Justin,
I tried this,
wwww.guffs.net/forums
just to see what you had, but
I got a generic page,
http://templates.doteasy.com/ErrorPages/error404/
Let us know when it works."
Hehe, sry In my original message I place four wwww
instead of three for the link. It should be
www.guffs.net/forum
Sry for the mistake!
--- Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> EV Digest 3968
>
> Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Fwd: [eaaev] EAA Funds CalCars' PRIUS+ Plug-in
> Hybrid
> by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 2) hydrogen vs. solar
> by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 3) Just saying....
> by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 4) Re: Just saying....
> by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 5) EV Taxes
> by "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 6) An Invitation to: The Nets Best Alternative
> Fuel Vehicle Forums!
> by justin vandeusen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 7) Re: Just saying....
> by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 8) Re: An Invitation to: The Nets Best Alternative
> Fuel Vehicle Forums!
> by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 9) Re: Just saying....and winter driving
> by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 10) Re: Just saying....
> by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 11) RE: The 200sx is alive!!
> by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 12) Re: Just saying....
> by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 13) Re: Was: 200sx GVWR, now CivicwithACord GVWR
> by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 14) Re: Just saying....
> by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 15) Re: Heater/defroster ideas?
> by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 16) I need Nicad batteries
> by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 17) Re: I need Nicad batteries
> by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 18) Re: Heater/defroster ideas?
> by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 19) Re: An Invitation to: The Nets Best Alternative
> Fuel Vehicle Forums!
> by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.1 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:01:23 -0800 (PST)
> From: Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Fwd: [eaaev] EAA Funds CalCars' PRIUS+
> Plug-in Hybrid
> To: SFEAA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> [email protected]
>
> Hooray for the EAA for backing the CalCars
> Initiative!
>
> --- Kim Rogers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:03:13 -0800
> > Subject: [eaaev] EAA Funds CalCars' PRIUS+ Plug-in
> > Hybrid
> >
> >
> > Great news!! The Electric Auto Association (EAA)
> has
> > voted to support the
> > California Cars Initiative (CalCars), contributing
> > funds and urging its
> > members to join the effort to make "plug-in hybrid
> > electric vehicles"
> > (PHEVs) available to drivers worldwide.
> >
> > Please see http://www.eaaev.org/ for the latest
> > press release with details.
> > ------------------------------------------
> > Kim Rogers
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.2 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:07:51 -0800 (PST)
> From: Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: hydrogen vs. solar
> To: SFEAA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [email protected],
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Three interesting articles in the San Francisco
> Chronicle today:
>
> One on the hydrogen fuel boondoggle:
>
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/20/MNGEPAEI591.DTL
>
> One on how a Berkeley solar-power company had to go
> all the way to Germany to do a booming business:
>
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/20/MNGRAAEL4B1.DTL
>
> And a third on how Gov. Schwarzenneger says he wants
> solar panels on a million homes but proposes
> incentives that pale in comparison with Germany's:
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/20/MNGD1AEFM31.DTL
>
> If you want to take this opportunity to send a
> letter
> to the editor (which is the most-read section of any
> newspaper, people), email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> =====
> Sherry Boschert
> President
> San Francisco Electric Auto Association
> 415-681-7716
> www.sfeaa.org
>
> There are 941 electric vehicles and neighborhood
> electric vehicles in San Francisco (DMV statistics).
> Driving with no gas, no oil, no noise, no emissions
> -- no kidding!
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.3 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:57:37 -0500
> From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Ev" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Just saying....
>
> I'd just like to say for the record that out of four
> cars in my driveway
> this morning (with the temps at 6 degrees):
>
> The van was stuck in a parking lot with frozen
> brakes
> The Porsche 944S had solid frozen doors
> And the 911L flat-refused to turn over.
>
> The only car that worked was the Prizm. Fired right
> up, warmed up the
> inside with the heater at the cost of 1.5ah on the
> pack, and took me to
> the train station, kids to school and wife for
> groceries. Also probably
> the only car that could make it up a driveway of
> ice.
>
> Once again: Impressed with Hawkers. Even cold they
> can still get the car
> going (albeit with a gentle throttle). Yes the range
> is probably less
> than 50%, but we can get it all done with 10-15 mile
> hops.
>
> I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an AGM
> equipped car in
> sub-freezing temps?
>
> Chris
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.4 message/rfc822
> From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Just saying....
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:21:27 -0600
>
> >I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an
> AGM
> >equipped car in
> >sub-freezing temps?
>
> Since I have yet to get a working EV on the road, I
> have no
> advice, but I'd be very interested in seeing how it
> would
> perform in the cold with battery heaters to keep
> them at
> about 85 degrees or so.
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.5 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:16:35 -0000
> From: "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: EV Taxes
>
>
> Hi Guys, I got the info on Fed Tax credits, Its full
> of it ! ! !.
> I called my congressman from Ks, and told him
> about it, He told me
> to have all of you write your congressmen,and tell
> them the same
> thing, That there is NO tax credits for
> conversions... They only
> give tax brakes for cars built by the atuo
> companys,silly isnt it ,
> because there arnt any of them building any I
> understand..
> His office people from Wichita are comeing tomarrow
> to our shop to
> see what were doing, and try and get more info on
> the field of EVs.
> Sen Pat Roberts wants to have a bill made up for
> retroactive
> service,about 2 years back. this way we can all gain
> from it.
> There was a bill in congress about tax
> credits,,im told,, that
> didnt pass because of 1 oil well in alaska, that
> killed it,,SSDD.
> He wants to have the bill redrawn and see if it
> can pass, did I
> stir up a pot of it or what???? any way I sure hope
> it can help us
> all,,,Seeya sharon
>
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.6 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 15:42:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: justin vandeusen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: An Invitation to: The Nets Best Alternative
> Fuel Vehicle Forums!
> To: [email protected]
>
> (Hope this works)
>
> Hello Everyone,
>
> I am new to the group but would like to invite
> anyone
> and everyone to come and visit my new forum set up
> for
> all types of alternative fuel vehicles including
> EV's.
> I would like to try to make the forums
> the premiere forum to go for any and all information
> regarding AFV's. I hope no one feels threatened by
> the
> invitation (particuarly the mods here), I only made
> the gesture out of interest of this group and the
> subject matter. From what I have read so
> far, this looks like a good group of people who
> enjoy
> sharing their knowledge and skills to help others in
> their EV adventures. I myself want to join the frey
> soon with a 144VDC Compact Pickup Conversion this
> Spring. I can't wait! I enjoyed what I have read so
> far and plan to keep reading and start contributing
> what I can for theEV group here. Thanks for reading
> this message, hope to see you on the boards
> and here in the EV Group!
>
> -Justin
>
> wwww.guffs.net/forums
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.7 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:16:55 -0500
> From: Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Just saying....
>
> Well, last year it got cold after the quantum
> performance drop, but I
> could still get about 15-17 miles out of it. I think
> I did a bad thing
> by trying to up the charge voltage to compensate for
> the cold; might
> have wound up drying the pack further.
>
> The nice part is the performance is still "good". By
> good I mean I can
> draw 120 amps with a running voltage of 290, and 150
> with a running
> voltage of 285 after 10ah. This is on a 300 volt
> base pack, so not too bad.
>
> How do flooded cars work? I know the E20 (6 T105's)
> will still put out
> in the snow, but range is half at best.
>
> Chris
>
>
> John Westlund wrote:
>
> >>I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an
> AGM
> >>equipped car in
> >>sub-freezing temps?
> >
> >
> > Since I have yet to get a working EV on the road,
> I have no
> > advice, but I'd be very interested in seeing how
> it would
> > perform in the cold with battery heaters to keep
> them at
> > about 85 degrees or so.
> >
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.8 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:01:45 -0800 (PST)
> From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: An Invitation to: The Nets Best
> Alternative Fuel Vehicle Forums!
> To: [email protected]
>
> Justin,
> I tried this,
> wwww.guffs.net/forums
> just to see what you had, but
> I got a generic page,
> http://templates.doteasy.com/ErrorPages/error404/
> Let us know when it works,
> Rod
> --- justin vandeusen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > (Hope this works)
> >
> > Hello Everyone,
> >
> > I am new to the group but would like to invite
> > anyone
> > and everyone to come and visit my new forum set up
> > for
> > all types of alternative fuel vehicles including
> > EV's.
> > I would like to try to make the forums
> > the premiere forum to go for any and all
> information
> > regarding AFV's. I hope no one feels threatened by
> > the
> > invitation (particuarly the mods here), I only
> made
> > the gesture out of interest of this group and the
> > subject matter. From what I have read so
> > far, this looks like a good group of people who
> > enjoy
> > sharing their knowledge and skills to help others
> in
> > their EV adventures. I myself want to join the
> frey
> > soon with a 144VDC Compact Pickup Conversion this
> > Spring. I can't wait! I enjoyed what I have read
> so
> > far and plan to keep reading and start
> contributing
> > what I can for theEV group here. Thanks for
> reading
> > this message, hope to see you on the boards
> > and here in the EV Group!
> >
> > -Justin
> >
> > wwww.guffs.net/forums
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.9 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:14:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Just saying....and winter driving
> To: [email protected]
>
> Chris,
> My TEVan is parked until the salt is off the roads,
> there are very few replacement parts for a salt
> corroded TEVan. When I worked at GE I drove a TEVan
> that belonged to Chrysler. I didn't care what broke
> or corroded, I didn't own the vehicle and they paid
> to
> fix any problems I had.
> The van drove great in snow except for the low
> ground
> clearance on the back roads that had 8" plus of snow
> piled up between the tire tracks. The van did a
> fine
> job of 'plowing' the snow and flatening out this
> snow
> sticking up with the battery packs as the snow
> blade.
> I was also able to do John Wayland type peel outs
> with
> a TEVan (OK, it was snow, but the tires spun
> freely).
> Didn't have too much problem with range, the NiCd's
> performed well and kept the van warm while
> transporting the toddler to the baby sitter.
> P.S. you scored extra bonus points with the wife for
> using the EV for transportation on a snowy day.
> Rod
> --- Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Well, last year it got cold after the quantum
> > performance drop, but I
> > could still get about 15-17 miles out of it. I
> think
> > I did a bad thing
> > by trying to up the charge voltage to compensate
> for
> > the cold; might
> > have wound up drying the pack further.
> >
> > The nice part is the performance is still "good".
> By
> > good I mean I can
> > draw 120 amps with a running voltage of 290, and
> 150
> > with a running
> > voltage of 285 after 10ah. This is on a 300 volt
> > base pack, so not too bad.
> >
> > How do flooded cars work? I know the E20 (6
> T105's)
> > will still put out
> > in the snow, but range is half at best.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > John Westlund wrote:
> >
> > >>I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an
> > AGM
> > >>equipped car in
> > >>sub-freezing temps?
> > >
> > >
> > > Since I have yet to get a working EV on the
> road,
> > I have no
> > > advice, but I'd be very interested in seeing how
> > it would
> > > perform in the cold with battery heaters to keep
> > them at
> > > about 85 degrees or so.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.10 message/rfc822
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Just saying....
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:14:33 -0700
>
> Hello John,
>
> I have run my EV at temperatures of 33 below zero
> with a wind chill at 50
> below. The car was setting in the parking lot at
> work for about 9 hours.
>
> Every body else had to go out and start there ICE
> cars every fours hours. I
> ended up jumpering a lot of ICE's and had no problem
> starting up and moving
> thru a foot of snow like a snow plow.
>
> This gave everybody a track to follow.
>
> It was a clear day which cause a lot of heat to
> radiant off which gave these
> low temperatures. I park my car with the glass hatch
> back facing the sun.
> This warms up the battery compartment which kept it
> above 70 degrees all day
> long.
>
> Also I have my battery box enclosure tripled
> insulated with three layers of
> 2 inch foam with a six inch air space between two
> layers of foam.
>
> Each layer of foam was also cover with a layer a
> carpet, the battery
> container slides in another enclosure which is foam
> and carpet insulation.
>
> On a cloudy day, this compartment has at time remain
> above 70 degrees over a
> 8 hour period.
>
> At home in or outside garage, I would plug in a
> battery heater, the ones
> made by KAT'S which also makes engine heaters.
>
> I found it was best to take that energy to maintain
> 70 degrees, and heat my
> garage at 70 degrees instead with a heating system.
>
> I also insulated my garage walls to 65 R-Factor
> using 2 layers of 10-Factor
> Foam and 3 layers of 15-Factor Foam. Also the
> ceiling in a combination of
> foam and fiberglass insulation that is insulated to
> 136-Factor. The Garage
> door is a double foam door that is 29-Factor.
>
> Its now takes less energy to continues maintain 70
> degree heat. The
> advantage here is, that not only are you heating the
> batteries, but the
> whole car. This helps maintain the battery
> temperature at 70 degrees.
>
> Also in summer, the area below the glass hatch that
> is over the battery is
> shaded with a solar reflected material and is air
> vented. The maximum
> temperature these batteries got, was 85 degrees with
> a outside surface
> temperature of 110 degrees.
>
> To see this Car, just type in your search engine:
>
> Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro
>
> You do not need any http www dot com or
> anything like that
>
> Roland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 3:21 PM
> Subject: Re: Just saying....
>
>
> > >I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an
> AGM
> > >equipped car in
> > >sub-freezing temps?
> >
> > Since I have yet to get a working EV on the road,
> I have no
> > advice, but I'd be very interested in seeing how
> it would
> > perform in the cold with battery heaters to keep
> them at
> > about 85 degrees or so.
> >
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.11 message/rfc822
> From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: The 200sx is alive!!
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:20:19 -0700
>
> Well, I can confirm the rumor: the 200sx is indeed
> alive. Ryan was
> gracious enough to let me come up to visit (and
> drive!) the 200sx this past
> weekend. I even got to smell that stinker Orbital
> he reported. Ryan did an
> awesome job on this car, and I learned a lot just
> looking at some of the
> solutions he devised. BTW, he did it all in less
> than 8 months, while
> simultaneously working on his degree to boot--and
> without a garage! Thanks
> for the visit and the inspiration, Ryan.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.12 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:50:39 -0800
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Just saying....
>
> >>I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an
> AGM
> >>equipped car in
> >>sub-freezing temps?
> >
> >Since I have yet to get a working EV on the road, I
> have no
> >advice, but I'd be very interested in seeing how it
> would
> >perform in the cold with battery heaters to keep
> them at
> >about 85 degrees or so.
>
> Invest enough in heating up a cold lead pack and you
> may be better off with a
> NiCd pack that doesn't care how cold it is. You
> could end up with a pretty high
> kwh/mi in the Great White North if you factor in
> heating requirements to
> maintain battery performance - anyone know how well
> a NiCd pack handles the
> Arctic chill?
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.13 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:58:18 -0500
> From: "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Was: 200sx GVWR, now CivicwithACord
> GVWR
>
> I think you need to drive the car and see if the
> brakes fade on hard
> stops. Work up to this slowly 25mph ...stop check
> your distance do this
> several times and if your distances change
> drastically then you need to
> up grade the brakes. Increase you speeds ten mph and
> retest but be
> careful. I did this test on a race track at some
> very high speeds and
> learned a lot. Like it takes the same amount of
> braking force to slow
> from 100 mph to 70 mph as it does to go from 70 mph
> to zero.
> Disclaimer I am not an expert please use this
> information at your own risk.
> Mike G.
>
> Bob Bath wrote:
>
> >Well, timing is perfect, as I got weighed today,
> post
> >conversion.
> >Stock Civvy (DX 4 dr). 2220
> >Final Weight 3300
> >Batteries weight (18 x 71): 1278
> >Motor 120 lbs.
> >
> >That means I lost around 270 lbs. in engine block;
> >controller and charger make up the remaining 20 or
> so.
> >
> >At 2220 lbs, available cargo cap. is listed as 850.
>
> >That means GVWR is 3070. So before I hop inside,
> I'm
> >over by 230 lbs. Add 160 of me, and I'm almost 400
> >over.
> >
> >Okay, so about that brake upgrade... (:-<
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >--- Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>The owner's manual for my Ranger lists four
> GVWR's,
> >>one for each
> >>combination of manual/auto transmission and rear
> >>axle ratio. Given
> >>that everything else is the same on the vehicle,
> >>something as simple
> >>as the transmission and axle ratio can make a
> >>difference in GVWR.
> >>
> >>Tim
> >>
> >>-------
> >>From: "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>Date: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:58 pm
> >>Subject: Re: GVWR, was: The 200sx is alive!!
> >>
> >>One of the factors in the gvwr is the size of the
> >>brakes. Remember this
> >>vehicle has to STOP !
> >>Mike G.
> >>
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Do You Yahoo!?
> >>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> >>protection around
> >>http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >=====
> >'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> >Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came
> out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas
> for your kids?
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do
> good.
> >http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.14 message/rfc822
> From: Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Just saying....
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:11:43 -0500
> To: [email protected]
>
> They love it. NiCad forces had no battery heat
> AFAIK, and the Ovonics
> NiMH was OK in the cold without heat, although there
> was a performace
> loss. Not as bad as cold Gel batteries, but there.
> Gel needed heat.
> Even so, the heat was at times marginally enough.
>
> Seth
> On Dec 20, 2004, at 9:50 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> >>> I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an
> AGM
> >>> equipped car in
> >>> sub-freezing temps?
> >>
> >> Since I have yet to get a working EV on the road,
> I have no
> >> advice, but I'd be very interested in seeing how
> it would
> >> perform in the cold with battery heaters to keep
> them at
> >> about 85 degrees or so.
> >
> > Invest enough in heating up a cold lead pack and
> you may be better off
> > with a
> > NiCd pack that doesn't care how cold it is. You
> could end up with a
> > pretty high
> > kwh/mi in the Great White North if you factor in
> heating requirements
> > to
> > maintain battery performance - anyone know how
> well a NiCd pack
> > handles the
> > Arctic chill?
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.15 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:21:23 -0500
> From: "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Heater/defroster ideas?
>
> I like it but the paper did not mention the btu's
> available only the
> temperature of 130'. In comparison a typical ICE
> heater is the same temp
> as the engine approx 200'f it sounds to me like the
> heat exchanger
> would need to be rather large.
> Mike G.
>
> Doug Weathers wrote:
>
> >
> > On Friday, December 17, 2004, at 06:43 PM, M.G.
> wrote:
> >
> >> How about a chemical reaction that could be
> undone ( recharged ) at
> >> the same time the batteries were being charged?
> >> MikeG.
> >
> >
> > That's a really interesting idea. Something like
> sodium acetate, like
> > in those reusable heat packs?
> >
> > http://www.9thtee.com/reheater.htm
> >
> > Actually, I just found a nice page on other phase
> change materials for
> > heat storage:
> >
> >
>
http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumerinfo/factsheets/b103.html
> >
> > It sounds like packaging is not yet fully worked
> out.
> >
> > And this would be fairly heavy, too. I wonder if
> the extra complexity
> > and weight would be worth the savings in
> electricity (from not using
> > resistive heating from the traction pack) ?
> >
> > --
> > Doug Weathers
> > Bend, OR, USA
> > http://learn-something.blogsite.org
> >
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.16 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:27:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: I need Nicad batteries
> To: EVList <[email protected]>
>
> Well, I've thought long and hard about a traction
> pack and I'm set on using NiCads. I'm going this
> route primarily for cold weather tolerance, but also
> because they can last a long time if treated
> well. Thanks to Seth I now have a 96volt pack. I'm
> actually looking for more though. This first
> pack is slated for a car I just bought, but the real
> project I want BB600s for will require quite
> a few more. By myself I'd like to find a couple of
> hundred (for an AC EV.) I don't want to speak
> for anyone else, but I know there are a few others
> in the area who might join me in a bulk
> purchase, if I could find them. So, here's my
> question; Does anyone know of a source of BB600
> NiCads? Does anyone have a pallet of them sitting
> around they'd like to sell? Is there another
> reasonably priced (i.e. not Saft) alternative? I've
> spoken with the people at SG Photo and their
> well has just about dried up.
>
> These first ones will go in an existing EV I just
> picked up for my first project. It has 8
> Interstate floodeds that have been sitting so long
> (maybe 10 years) that I have no hope they will
> work. The car was professionally converted a long
> time ago and they seem to have done a pretty
> good job. Curtis controller, ADC motor, Russco
> heater, but no charger. The Interstates were a
> little heavy for this car, so lightening the load is
> a big plus. They designed it to use an
> external charger, but it burned up in a fire. The
> car is a 1968 Saab 96. It's in remarkably good
> shape for the age, but I discovered some rust in the
> pan near the rear axle. I'm not sure if I
> should fix the body or use the components in another
> donor. Time will tell. First I've got to
> evaluate the parts and see if the car is
> salvageable. Does anyone have any experience fixing
> old
> Saabs? I want to sell the car after I get it going
> so I don't think I can get away with bondo and
> duct tape.
>
> Wish me luck,
>
> Dave Cover (No longer a lurker, but not a driver
> yet!)
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.17 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 22:51:52 -0800
> From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: I need Nicad batteries
>
> Dave Cover wrote:
> > Well, I've thought long and hard about a traction
> pack and I'm set
> > on using NiCads. I'm going this route primarily
> for cold weather
> > tolerance, but also because they can last a long
> time if treated
> > well.
>
> These are good batteries. Just be sure you are "up
> to" the task of
> properly maintaining them. Many beginning EVers
> murder their first pack
> from ignorance and abuse; it would be a shame for
> this to happen to an
> expensive pack of nicads.
>
> > the real project I want BB600s for will require
> quite a few more.
> > By myself I'd like to find a couple of hundred
> (for an AC EV.)
>
> Be aware that these are flooded nicads, and need a
> lot of watering. That
> will be a very tedious job with hundreds of cells!
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.18 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:10:24 -0600
> To: [email protected]
> From: Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Heater/defroster ideas?
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Apparently this didn't go the first time, so I will
> try again.
>
> For anyone interested in using a hair dryer as a
> heat source you might want
> to check out a switch I ran across at, of all
> places, Home Depot. I was
> shocked to notice they carry those old style surface
> mount light switches,
> and that they are still AC/DC rated. While I
> haven't tried one for this,
> it looks to me like they would be perfect for
> switching a hair dryer on and
> off without the expense and complexity of relays. A
> flea market hairdryer,
> some sort of fusing, a $4 switch from Home Depot,
> and instant heat. You
> should be warmer without spending $20. On the down
> side, it looks like
> they are only rated for 10 Amps. I found a picture
> of one on the web at:
>
>
http://www.levitonproducts.com/Catalog/Model_1210.htm?SID=V8RG5A7FCQGS8PADTG4AQB6HRTUU6R53&PID=1208
>
> BTW, on my Civic EV I went with dual ceramic
> elements salvaged from two
> cube heaters. Three relays with caps for snubbers,
> and a little wiring and
> fantastic heat. The E-meter reports them pulling 31
> Amps at full power
> which at 156+ Volts means 4800 watts, supposedly
> that works out to about
> 16,000 BTUs. Needless to say I have to turn it down
> pretty quick. The
> relays are controlled by an old Honda blower switch
> mounted in place of the
> original temp control knob (panel still looks
> stock). Low is one half of
> one element powered or about 1200 Watts, medium is
> one half of each element
> powered, or about 2400 Watts, and high is the whole
> thing. Combined with
> the three fan settings it gives me nine possible
> temp settings. Today I
> really needed it, as it was only 12 degrees when I
> came outside. Ouch!
>
> I also have a 900 Watt AC powered Artic-Thaw heater
> I found at NAPA a
> couple of years ago. It is apparently a fairly
> common product in Canada
> used on ICE cars (since they plug in to run the
> block heater they might was
> well warm the interior too.) The mounting bracket
> permanently mounts in
> the car, and the heater clips into it, so you can
> take it out in warm
> weather. It came with a delay timer, but I found a
> seven day timer to use
> instead.
>
> I picked up a 12 Volt electric blanket on Ebay that
> my wife thought was the
> best thing ever, though she usually kept it in our
> ICE Honda. Of course it
> got shut in the door and ruined, so I may have to
> get another one.
>
> Stay warm,
>
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at:
> http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at:
> http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.19 message/rfc822
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:05:40 -0800
> From: Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: An Invitation to: The Nets Best
> Alternative Fuel Vehicle Forums!
>
> I think the correct URL is:
> http://wwww.guffs.net/forum/
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2004 at 05:01:45PM -0800, Rod Hower
> wrote:
> > Justin,
> > I tried this,
> > wwww.guffs.net/forums
> > just to see what you had, but
> > I got a generic page,
> > http://templates.doteasy.com/ErrorPages/error404/
> > Let us know when it works,
> > Rod
> > --- justin vandeusen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > (Hope this works)
> > >
> > > Hello Everyone,
> > >
> > > I am new to the group but would like to invite
> > > anyone
> > > and everyone to come and visit my new forum set
> up
> > > for
> > > all types of alternative fuel vehicles including
> > > EV's.
>
> <..snip..>
>
> > >
> > > -Justin
> > >
> > > wwww.guffs.net/forums
> > >
> > >
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > > protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from
> message *
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<<SECURITY WARNING >>>>
YOU ARE USING A 2.0.10 PHPBB, upgrade to 2.0.11 !!!
there is a BIG security hole in first one, novice hacker can recover your FTP
password and delete all.
Don't ask me how i'm aware of that :^(
Philippe
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : [email protected]
Cc :
Date : Tue, 21 Dec 2004 05:10:50 -0800 (PST)
Subject : Re: EV digest 3968
"Justin,
I tried this,
wwww.guffs.net/forums
just to see what you had, but
I got a generic page,
http://templates.doteasy.com/ErrorPages/error404/
Let us know when it works."
Hehe, sry In my original message I place four wwww
instead of three for the link. It should be
www.guffs.net/forum
Sry for the mistake!
--- Electric Vehicle Discussion List
<[email protected]> wrote:
************************ ADSL ILLIMITE TISCALI + TELEPHONE GRATUIT
************************
Surfez 40 fois plus vite pour 30EUR/mois seulement ! Et t�l�phonez partout en
France gratuitement,
vers les postes fixes (hors num�ros sp�ciaux). Tarifs tr�s avantageux vers les
mobiles et l'international !
Pour profiter de cette offre exceptionnelle, cliquez ici :
http://register.tiscali.fr/adsl (voir conditions sur le site)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> Well, I've thought long and hard about a traction pack and I'm set
> on using NiCads. I'm going this route primarily for cold weather
> tolerance, but also because they can last a long time if treated
> well.
One of the strong points of the Tour de Sol was the strong emphasis on
collecting data. So it attracted people and organizations that were doing just
that. One of the best cases of long term, open, detailed evaluation of battery
technology in vehicles is this one; I reviewed a draft of the paper ...
Research Report Publication for State Study No. SPR-2223,
"Evaluation of Alternate Fuel Light Trucks and Automobiles"
REPORT: Sime, J.M., "Evaluation of Nickel Cadmium Battery-Electric
Subcompact Automobile in Connecticut as a Alternative for Work-trips
and Commutes," Report No. 2223-1-04-5, May 2004
Thank you again for your assistance with the earlier review of the
draft report, which has now been published.
Linked for your use is the electronic version of the published
report. Bookmarks have been created within the Adobe PDF document
that match the report's table of contents. These will ease
navigation and may allow you the option of reading the document
without printing. The report is freely available at
http://www.ct.gov/dot/LIB/dot/documents/dresearch/CT-2223-1-04-6.pdf
This research report presents interim results from a 30,000-mile
evaluation of a subcompact electric car powered by nickel cadmium
batteries (15,600 Watt-Hr NiCd). The study examines claims that
the NiCd-powered BEV will provide not less than 70 miles per
recharge year-round for 65,000 miles or more. Connecticut is a
small state (50 miles from north to south and 100 miles from east to
west), so a 70-mile range has the potential to be adequate for
service as a short-range fleet vehicle and may be able to meet 20 to
30 percent of the fleets' daily driving needs.
In cases where I was not able to answer questions posed by
reviewers, I will continue to look for information and address those
issues as best I can in future interim reports or the final report.
If you would like a paper copy of this report, please send me your
mailing address (see my return email address below).
Jim
James M. Sime, P.E.
Manager of Research
Connecticut DOT
280 West Street
Rocky Hill, CT 06067-3502
Tel. 860-258-0309
Fax 860-258-0399
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.ct.gov/dot/research
Snarfed from the paper ...
Rideshare managed the conversion of the lead-acid BEV subcompact to a
NiCd BEV in 1999. The car manufacturer performed the conversion. The
NiCd pack consists of 26 six-volt batteries (pack capacity is 15,600
Watt-hours) and had a battery-pack replacement value in 1999 of
$8,450. A favorable cost-per-mile statistic for battery-replacement
was possible if the NiCd battery were as long-lived as was claimed.
The driving range design goal for the NiCd-powered BEV was to provide
not less than 70 miles per recharge year-round. Eight (8) ConnDOT
research personnel were approved as drivers. Rideshare provided
automobile insurance coverage. The evaluation of the NiCd BEV
included the following: observations and data gathered by driver
participants in commuting and work trips, data gathered through the
American Tour del Sol (ATdS) electric vehicle road rally,
troubleshooting and repair after breakdowns, and subsequent data
analyses. The combination of driving activities conducted under a
variety of battery states-of-charge, weather, traffic, and roadway
conditions was anticipated to provide a balanced first-hand evaluation
of 1999 production BEV technology with a NiCd battery system.
...
Data and written comments about the performance of the BEV in daily
commuter service were manually recorded for every drive during the
four-year period, spring 1999 to spring 2003.
Anyone considering NiCd batteries, or any other detailed evaluation, would
probably benefit from reading this report.
Jim says he is willing to talk with people who want to ask questions about the
report.
--
Mike Bianchi
Foveal Systems
973 822-2085 call to arrange Fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com
http://www.FovealMounts.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took a deduction for my conversion 5 years ago and one about 10 years ago
(and I think one about 30 years ago). But I heard the EV credit was removed
by the present administration this year.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 6:16 PM
Subject: EV Taxes
>
> Hi Guys, I got the info on Fed Tax credits, Its full of it ! ! !.
> I called my congressman from Ks, and told him about it, He told me
> to have all of you write your congressmen,and tell them the same
> thing, That there is NO tax credits for conversions... They only
> give tax brakes for cars built by the atuo companys,silly isnt it ,
> because there arnt any of them building any I understand..
> His office people from Wichita are comeing tomarrow to our shop to
> see what were doing, and try and get more info on the field of EVs.
> Sen Pat Roberts wants to have a bill made up for retroactive
> service,about 2 years back. this way we can all gain from it.
> There was a bill in congress about tax credits,,im told,, that
> didnt pass because of 1 oil well in alaska, that killed it,,SSDD.
> He wants to have the bill redrawn and see if it can pass, did I
> stir up a pot of it or what???? any way I sure hope it can help us
> all,,,Seeya sharon
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My pack of 18-T875 works fine in cold weather (Colorado winter weather
is usually about 25F, with occasional drops to sub zero), I have the
battery heaters turned on and set at 80F +- 5 (each battery box is
individually controlled and insulated). Now almost 10000 miles on the
T875's and no sign of aging problems!
Lynn
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Zach
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 1:58 PM
To: Ev
Subject: Just saying....
I'd just like to say for the record that out of four cars in my driveway
this morning (with the temps at 6 degrees):
The van was stuck in a parking lot with frozen brakes
The Porsche 944S had solid frozen doors
And the 911L flat-refused to turn over.
The only car that worked was the Prizm. Fired right up, warmed up the
inside with the heater at the cost of 1.5ah on the pack, and took me to
the train station, kids to school and wife for groceries. Also probably
the only car that could make it up a driveway of ice.
Once again: Impressed with Hawkers. Even cold they can still get the car
going (albeit with a gentle throttle). Yes the range is probably less
than 50%, but we can get it all done with 10-15 mile hops.
I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an AGM equipped car in
sub-freezing temps?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear Friends of the Tour de Sol:
I am happy to announce that NESEA will be holding a Tour de Sol May 13-16,
2005, in the Mid-Atlantic States. It will include all traditional Tour de Sol
events such as technical testing, and competitive events for efficiency,
greenhouse gas emissions, range, handling, and acceleration. Details about the
public events, and the location of all the activities will be posted on the
Tour de Sol web site in January.
Have a wonderful Holiday!
And we look forward to working with you to create a great 2005 Tour de Sol!
Sincerely,
Nancy Hazard
For the NESEA staff and Tour de Sol volunteers
--
Mike Bianchi, for the Tour de Sol and NESEA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey EVlister folks...
My Website is down.. sorry I have a few providers that goofed...
I did not dry up and blow way... It should be back up in a couple of hours
Rich Rudman
Manzantia Micro.
Manzanitamicro.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lynn, it's always good to learn from your posts. I
still can't shake that grind from the tranny, and
instead of listening to it and worrying about the
tranny coming apart, I will purchase a new one. I'm
sure Nels did a great job on yours, and his heart is
_definitely_ in the right place, but through a variety
of twists, I'm guessing the adapter plate is a few
thousandths off, which is causing it. Tranny
specialists are saying that is consistent with my
noise.
My question:
You are taking the voltage to 186 on an average charge
(per Nawaz' suggestion), and upping it to 190 or so on
an equalizing? Obviously you're putting on more miles
than me (80/day vs. my 80/week at best) but how often
are you EQ'ing?
Many thanks, and Merry Christmas!
--- "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My pack of 18-T875 works fine in cold weather
> (Colorado winter weather
> is usually about 25F, with occasional drops to sub
> zero), I have the
> battery heaters turned on and set at 80F +- 5 (each
> battery box is
> individually controlled and insulated). Now almost
> 10000 miles on the
> T875's and no sign of aging problems!
>
> Lynn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 1:58 PM
> To: Ev
> Subject: Just saying....
>
> I'd just like to say for the record that out of four
> cars in my driveway
>
> this morning (with the temps at 6 degrees):
>
> The van was stuck in a parking lot with frozen
> brakes
> The Porsche 944S had solid frozen doors
> And the 911L flat-refused to turn over.
>
> The only car that worked was the Prizm. Fired right
> up, warmed up the
> inside with the heater at the cost of 1.5ah on the
> pack, and took me to
> the train station, kids to school and wife for
> groceries. Also probably
> the only car that could make it up a driveway of
> ice.
>
> Once again: Impressed with Hawkers. Even cold they
> can still get the car
>
> going (albeit with a gentle throttle). Yes the range
> is probably less
> than 50%, but we can get it all done with 10-15 mile
> hops.
>
> I like electrics. Reliable. Any hints running an AGM
> equipped car in
> sub-freezing temps?
>
> Chris
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
