EV Digest 3970
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: OT Re: Energy required to manufacture EV batts
by Dick Farfel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: EV Taxes
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EV calender
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Austin Public Charging
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: EV calender
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Splined shafts
by Dragan Stancevic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV Taxes
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EV Taxes
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Ampabout ... its a fashion statement
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: hydrogen vs. solar
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: hydrogen vs. solar
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Making EV conversions new vehicles, Re: EV Taxes
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Splined shafts
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Making EV conversions new vehicles, Re: EV Taxes
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Zamboni conversion
by "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Making EV conversions new vehicles, Re: EV Taxes
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers That Refuse to Die!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
aceee.org sells a book that breaks down energy costs
to manufacture car bodies, engines, batteries, and so
on.
--- Claudio Natoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> > This one gave me a chuckle: Usually when people
> ask
> > this type of question, they are petrol. industry
> > shills. Then a flame war erupts, as EV enthusiasts
> ask
>
> Ugh. That was definitely not my intention, but I can
> see how that would pan out. :-)
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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--- Begin Message ---
ebay item #4512963146
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4512963146&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
300HP electric motor that operates from 2 car
batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels.
Fully self contained and self charging. At last look
the bidding for plans only is up to $1026. Why did I
have to be born with a conscience? What a great scam.
Just thought you all might like a look
Chimer
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
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--- Begin Message ---
Actually the EV credit was scheduled to phase out this year, but Congress
passed, and the President signed, a two year extension.
However, the Federal deduction doesn't include any provisions for a
do-it-yourself conversion *directly*. It only applies to a car that was
purchased by you as a first owner. Now, having said that, Sharon, and
Steve, this may have some application to you. If someone were to take an
older car and convert it, then apply for a new VIN to re-title as a *new*
electric car, then it meets the provision of the law and the purchaser can
take a deduction based on the cost differential of the electric car vs. a
comparable ICE car. The key here is that for all intents and purposes this
is to be considered a NEW CAR, so it must be titled as a 2004 ClunnCar
model Electric or a 2004 Sharons-Hope Electric or somesuch.
So, the Tango has 2 more years to get going....unfortunately the Sparrow
needs another wheel to qualify.
The rule applies most directly to NEV's, since they're for all
practicality the only EV's you can purchase today.
There is also a rule that allows a deduction for "installation of
alternative fuel equipment" or something like that. It is intended to help
pay for charging infrastructure. I'll have to research it a little more to
see if it applies to conversions, but I don't think it does.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:42 AM
> To: goodsharonwbird; [email protected]
> Subject: Re: EV Taxes
>
>
> I took a deduction for my conversion 5 years ago and one about 10 years
> ago
> (and I think one about 30 years ago). But I heard the EV credit was
> removed
> by the present administration this year. Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 6:16 PM
> Subject: EV Taxes
>
>
>>
>> Hi Guys, I got the info on Fed Tax credits, Its full of it ! ! !.
>> I called my congressman from Ks, and told him about it, He told me
>> to have all of you write your congressmen,and tell them the same
>> thing, That there is NO tax credits for conversions... They only give
>> tax brakes for cars built by the atuo companys,silly isnt it , because
>> there arnt any of them building any I understand.. His office people
>> from Wichita are comeing tomarrow to our shop to see what were doing,
>> and try and get more info on the field of EVs.
>> Sen Pat Roberts wants to have a bill made up for retroactive
>> service,about 2 years back. this way we can all gain from it.
>> There was a bill in congress about tax credits,,im told,, that
>> didnt pass because of 1 oil well in alaska, that killed it,,SSDD.
>> He wants to have the bill redrawn and see if it can pass, did I
>> stir up a pot of it or what???? any way I sure hope it can help us
>> all,,,Seeya sharon
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chimer,
I just did a search on Baldor's web site for a 300 Hp
motor. It weighs 2300 lbs (AC induction, 3 phase,
460Vac).
Not sure about the dimensions, but I don't think it
will fit in my TEVan (darn, I guess I'll have to
settle for the 200Hp flux capacitor version).
Rod
--- Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ebay item #4512963146
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4512963146&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
>
>
> 300HP electric motor that operates from 2 car
> batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels.
> Fully self contained and self charging. At last look
> the bidding for plans only is up to $1026. Why did
> I
> have to be born with a conscience? What a great
> scam.
>
> Just thought you all might like a look
>
> Chimer
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search.
> Learn more.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just did a little research of the sellors buying
habits. And it looks like he owns a dirt bike that he
keeps crashing, bought an X-box, sold said X-box, just
sold his video camera, bought a get rich scheme and a
how to sell on ebay kit... do you think there is a
section in that kit on snake oil?
Gadget
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chimer,
> I just did a search on Baldor's web site for a 300
> Hp
> motor. It weighs 2300 lbs (AC induction, 3 phase,
> 460Vac).
> Not sure about the dimensions, but I don't think it
> will fit in my TEVan (darn, I guess I'll have to
> settle for the 200Hp flux capacitor version).
> Rod
>
> --- Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > ebay item #4512963146
> >
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4512963146&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
> >
> >
> > 300HP electric motor that operates from 2 car
> > batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels.
> > Fully self contained and self charging. At last
> look
> > the bidding for plans only is up to $1026. Why
> did
> > I
> > have to be born with a conscience? What a great
> > scam.
> >
> > Just thought you all might like a look
> >
> > Chimer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> search.
> > Learn more.
> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >
> >
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
Last year someone (I can't remember who, but thanks again) did us a great
EV favour by producing a calender of EV photos. It has been a great talking
point in our lunchroom at work, and since it is nearly finished, does
anyone have a calender for next year in the works?
Thanks
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Austin EV fans,
I have a fiend who works for the City of Austin. He says all new city
facilities, such as the new city hall, are being constructed with public
charging available in the parking lots and garages. Do we have a map or
list of public
charging locations in Austin, like the west coasters have for their major
cities? Thanks, Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
JamesBruce Parmeter put one together last year. Don't know where the link
is... Also, the Vancouver BC (Canada) group - VEVA - has produced an EV
calendar for the past 3-4 years. -Ed ThorpeEBEAA--- On Tue 12/21, James Massey
< [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:From: James Massey [mailto: [EMAIL
PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:38:28 +1100Subject: EV
calenderHi allLast year someone (I can't remember who, but thanks again) did us
a great EV favour by producing a calender of EV photos. It has been a great
talking point in our lunchroom at work, and since it is nearly finished, does
anyone have a calender for next year in the works?ThanksJames MasseyLaunceston,
Tasmania, Australia
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
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--- Begin Message ---
A quick question on transmission input shafts.
Does anyone know how to find out the type of spline on the transmission input
shaft for a particular car or truck. The clutch has some marks but a google
search didn't come up with anything interesting.
Thanks.
--
Peace can only come as a natural consequence
of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If someone were to take an
> older car and convert it, then apply for a new VIN to re-title as a *new*
> electric car, then it meets the provision of the law and the purchaser can
> take a deduction based on the cost differential of the electric car vs. a
> comparable ICE car. The key here is that for all intents and purposes this
> is to be considered a NEW CAR, so it must be titled as a 2004 ClunnCar
> model Electric or a 2004 Sharons-Hope Electric or somesuch.
>
You make it sound so easy :-) A few weeks ago I had some body give me a
1990 Toyota ( I think , torcell) in great shape , inside and out , but the
motor was bad , , sounds good so far , well it seems that the hurricane blow
out the motor ( ya started smoking cas of the stress it went through ) ,
and the owner got money for it but had to turn in the title , . I;m told I
can get a salvage title for it , but will have to take it in to have it
inspected , . I'm wondering if anybody has done this ? Its a little bit of a
catch 22 , I wouldn't convert a car till I had a title of it , and they want
to inspect it before giving it a title. Maybe retitling it as you say might
be the way.
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could just use it for off-road (Drag racer) and then you wouldn't need
plates or a title? Just my two cents...
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: EV Taxes
If someone were to take an
older car and convert it, then apply for a new VIN to re-title as a *new*
electric car, then it meets the provision of the law and the purchaser
can
take a deduction based on the cost differential of the electric car vs. a
comparable ICE car. The key here is that for all intents and purposes
this
is to be considered a NEW CAR, so it must be titled as a 2004 ClunnCar
model Electric or a 2004 Sharons-Hope Electric or somesuch.
You make it sound so easy :-) A few weeks ago I had some body give me a
1990 Toyota ( I think , torcell) in great shape , inside and out , but
the
motor was bad , , sounds good so far , well it seems that the hurricane
blow
out the motor ( ya started smoking cas of the stress it went through ) ,
and the owner got money for it but had to turn in the title , . I;m told I
can get a salvage title for it , but will have to take it in to have it
inspected , . I'm wondering if anybody has done this ? Its a little bit of
a
catch 22 , I wouldn't convert a car till I had a title of it , and they
want
to inspect it before giving it a title. Maybe retitling it as you say
might
be the way.
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just sent an email asking to see the time slip for the 14 second
ET. I started to say what I really thought and then erased it to see
what kind of BS answer he had. I'm sorry, but I have no tolerance for
this type of BS that diminishes the advancement of EVs. These people
deserve whatever happens to them. That is all I will say on this
subject.
Roderick
I just did a little research of the sellors buying
habits. And it looks like he owns a dirt bike that he
keeps crashing, bought an X-box, sold said X-box, just
sold his video camera, bought a get rich scheme and a
how to sell on ebay kit... do you think there is a
section in that kit on snake oil?
Gadget
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chimer,
I just did a search on Baldor's web site for a 300
Hp
motor. It weighs 2300 lbs (AC induction, 3 phase,
460Vac).
Not sure about the dimensions, but I don't think it
will fit in my TEVan (darn, I guess I'll have to
settle for the 200Hp flux capacitor version).
Rod
--- Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ebay item #4512963146
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4512963146&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
>
>
> 300HP electric motor that operates from 2 car
> batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels.
> Fully self contained and self charging. At last
look
> the bidding for plans only is up to $1026. Why
did
> I
> have to be born with a conscience? What a great
> scam.
>
> Just thought you all might like a look
>
> Chimer
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
search.
> Learn more.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--
Roderick Wilde
Vintage Golf Cart Parts
Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Phone: 360-385-4868
Fax: 360-385-7922
107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Glad your back Bruce.
Have missed your numerous postings.
Sorry to hear about your PFC-50.
How long till you get a PFC-30 even with money in hand ?
Right now my EV has a newly discovered motor mount problem.
My new unused PFC-30 sits in the box.
Having received a new fashionable Blue Prius Saturday has been timely.
One Blue Prius next to one Blue EV Rabbit looks cool.
But with the weather and no garage to work in its been slow getting the
ol EV Rabbit going.
Iv gotten spoiled and lazy.
Missing not having a Th!nk because of the convenience of a modern clean
working EV and its size.
The Think was just perfect for city jaunts and simply fun to be in.
A Prius when in EV mode feels like a faint glimmer of having a gorgeous
modern EV production car.
It serves well as the all around family car. Moving 3 adults and 2 kids
its energy consumption is fairly conservative.
Living in hill country takes more energy either way getting here to
there.
Happy to say my solar system cranked out 10 KWH on this clear mid
December day, isn't it a shame one can't plug in a Prius today.
Cheerio,
Danny...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:07:51 -0800 (PST), Sherry Boschert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One on how a Berkeley solar-power company had to go
> all the way to Germany to do a booming business:
> http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/20/MNGRAAEL4B1.DTL
The following statement is wrong:
A law that has been in effect for a year stipulates that the nation's
electric utility companies must buy all wind and solar power generated
by residential, commercial and industrial users at a price 10 times
higher than the rate that users are charged for the electricity provided
by the utilities from coal, nuclear or natural gas plants.
Typical end consumer prices are about 0.20 US$/kWh.
A renewable energy producer gets about (1 EUR -> 1.30 US$):
Wind 0.12 US$/kWh first 5 years,
and then a minimum of 0.08 US$/kWh
Solar 0.60 US$/kWh minimum
Solar-Roof (<= 30 KW) + 0.15 US$/kWh
Solar-Roof (> 30 KW, < 100 KW) + 0.12 US$/kWh
Solar-Roof (> 100 KW) + 0.11 US$/kWh
Solar is guranteed for 20 year, after that the utilities pay market
price. Nevertheless this is a pretty good investment for home owners
because it gives a return of investment of more than 8 %. This could be
even higher if special low interest loans are used.
So the producer gets about 5 times more than the normal rate for solar
only. In total the program currently increases the price per kWh less
than 1 US cent for all consumers.
The only question I have is whether it would be much more efficient for
stopping increase of CO2 and other emissions by spending this money
directly for building modern GUD power stations in China. GUD power
stations are cheap and can be build for less than 500 US$/KW.
Emil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 12:07:51 -0800 (PST), Sherry Boschert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And a third on how Gov. Schwarzenneger says he wants
> solar panels on a million homes but proposes
> incentives that pale in comparison with Germany's:
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/20/MNGD1AEFM31.DTL
The Schwarzenegger bill seems to be just to complicated. The best is
really something like the EEG in Germany. Give the investors fixed
income, decreasing over time (rates are reduced 5 % a year in Germany)
and the market will do the rest.
Even China now works on something like the EEG. The chinese industry
expects an investment volume of about 65 billion US$ till 2020. This
high volume will drop productions costs rapidly.
I wonder when the US industry will see this high potential and starts
lobbying the government massively to change the direction of energy
politics.
Emil
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve and All,
--- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> If someone were to take an
> > older car and convert it, then apply for a new VIN
> to re-title as a *new*
> > electric car, then it meets the provision of the
> law and the purchaser can
> > take a deduction based on the cost differential of
> the electric car vs. a
> > comparable ICE car. The key here is that for all
> intents and purposes this
> > is to be considered a NEW CAR, so it must be
> titled as a 2004 ClunnCar
> > model Electric or a 2004 Sharons-Hope Electric or
> somesuch.
This is what I suggested to Sharon and her husband
to do on the phone if posting to the list doesn't
help. But each state is different.
> >
> You make it sound so easy :-) A few weeks ago I had
> some body give me a
> 1990 Toyota ( I think , torcell) in great shape ,
> inside and out , but the
> motor was bad , , sounds good so far , well it seems
> that the hurricane blow
> out the motor ( ya started smoking cas of the stress
> it went through ) ,
> and the owner got money for it but had to turn in
> the title , . I;m told I
> can get a salvage title for it , but will have to
Don't bet on it. You'll have to trace down all the
previous owners back until it was registered and pay
any sales taxes. In your case the owner is known so
not bad.
> take it in to have it
> inspected , . I'm wondering if anybody has done this
What you need in Fla is a receipt for the car
parts, along with ALL, repeat, ALL reciepts for motor,
ect, then build it as an EV and retitle it as
assembled from parts EV.
This gives you a new VIN, thus a new car as far
as legal, tax goes.
My E-Woody was done this way and registered as an
assembled from parts EV. Needed receipts for the wood,
motor, trans, suspension, epoxy, ect.
> ? Its a little bit of a
> catch 22 , I wouldn't convert a car till I had a
> title of it , and they want
I'd start with a titled car so there was no
question and retitle it as the best way to go to get
fed tax breaks at the least hassle..
> to inspect it before giving it a title. Maybe
> retitling it as you say might
> be the way.
Inspections are easy here as long as you have
receipts for everything. Mostly they want to make sure
nothing is stolen and the lights, brakes, horn work
and can go 40 mph in Fla.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
> steve clunn
>
>
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Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you bring it to a machinist, they probably can. It is probably an
involute spline, which can be looked up in the Machinery's Handbook
(Industrial Press) if you take a few measurements. If course, bringing
the clutch disc to the machinist is probably easier than a
transmission.
If it is a common hot rodded car then speed shops may also know.
Seth
On Dec 22, 2004, at 12:57 AM, Dragan Stancevic wrote:
A quick question on transmission input shafts.
Does anyone know how to find out the type of spline on the
transmission input
shaft for a particular car or truck. The clutch has some marks but a
google
search didn't come up with anything interesting.
Thanks.
--
Peace can only come as a natural consequence
of universal enlightenment. -Dr. Nikola Tesla
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody alerted eBay to the fact that this is a potential scam????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
> I just sent an email asking to see the time slip for the 14 second
> ET. I started to say what I really thought and then erased it to see
> what kind of BS answer he had. I'm sorry, but I have no tolerance for
> this type of BS that diminishes the advancement of EVs. These people
> deserve whatever happens to them. That is all I will say on this
> subject.
>
> Roderick
>
>
> >I just did a little research of the sellors buying
> >habits. And it looks like he owns a dirt bike that he
> >keeps crashing, bought an X-box, sold said X-box, just
> >sold his video camera, bought a get rich scheme and a
> >how to sell on ebay kit... do you think there is a
> >section in that kit on snake oil?
> >
> > Gadget
> >
> >
> >--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Chimer,
> >> I just did a search on Baldor's web site for a 300
> >> Hp
> >> motor. It weighs 2300 lbs (AC induction, 3 phase,
> >> 460Vac).
> >> Not sure about the dimensions, but I don't think it
> >> will fit in my TEVan (darn, I guess I'll have to
> >> settle for the 200Hp flux capacitor version).
> >> Rod
> >>
> >> --- Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > ebay item #4512963146
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4512963146&rd
=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 300HP electric motor that operates from 2 car
> >> > batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels.
> >> > Fully self contained and self charging. At last
> >> look
> >> > the bidding for plans only is up to $1026. Why
> >> did
> >> > I
> >> > have to be born with a conscience? What a great
> >> > scam.
> >> >
> >> > Just thought you all might like a look
> >> >
> >> > Chimer
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________
> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >> > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> >> search.
> >> > Learn more.
> >> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >=====
> >visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
>
> --
>
> Roderick Wilde
> Vintage Golf Cart Parts
> Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
> www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Phone: 360-385-4868
> Fax: 360-385-7922
> 107 Louisa Street
> Port Townsend, WA 98368
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Guys, there's a piece that's missing here:
A VIN # is a manufacturers' code just behind the
windshield, on the dash, and also stamped into the
firewall.
Look, I did the same thing you all did (see
"receipts", below), and got my $1500 from the great
state of OR for doing so. But the car still has the
same VIN #.
Are you saying that since my registration has now
changed to all-electric power, that I should've
applied as a "2004 CivicWithACord", and I could
collect (what would be in a more sensible country) a
tax rebate on my fed. taxes? Unfortunately, I listed
it as a 1992 Civic, but just checked the "electric"
box on the reg. forms.
Sounds like time to talk to a tax guy...
--- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Steve and All,
> --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > If someone were to take an
> > > older car and convert it, then apply for a new
> VIN
> > to re-title as a *new*
> > > electric car, then it meets the provision of the
> > law and the purchaser can
> > > take a deduction based on the cost differential
> of
> > the electric car vs. a
> > > comparable ICE car. The key here is that for all
> > intents and purposes this
> > > is to be considered a NEW CAR, so it must be
> > titled as a 2004 ClunnCar
> > > model Electric or a 2004 Sharons-Hope Electric
> or
> > somesuch.
>
> This is what I suggested to Sharon and her
> husband
> to do on the phone if posting to the list doesn't
> help. But each state is different.
>
> > >
> > You make it sound so easy :-) A few weeks ago I
> had
> > some body give me a
> > 1990 Toyota ( I think , torcell) in great shape
> ,
> > inside and out , but the
> > motor was bad , , sounds good so far , well it
> seems
> > that the hurricane blow
> > out the motor ( ya started smoking cas of the
> stress
> > it went through ) ,
> > and the owner got money for it but had to turn in
> > the title , . I;m told I
> > can get a salvage title for it , but will have to
>
> Don't bet on it. You'll have to trace down all
> the
> previous owners back until it was registered and pay
> any sales taxes. In your case the owner is known so
> not bad.
>
> > take it in to have it
> > inspected , . I'm wondering if anybody has done
> this
>
> What you need in Fla is a receipt for the car
> parts, along with ALL, repeat, ALL reciepts for
> motor,
> ect, then build it as an EV and retitle it as
> assembled from parts EV.
> This gives you a new VIN, thus a new car as far
> as legal, tax goes.
> My E-Woody was done this way and registered as
> an
> assembled from parts EV. Needed receipts for the
> wood,
> motor, trans, suspension, epoxy, ect.
>
> > ? Its a little bit of a
> > catch 22 , I wouldn't convert a car till I had a
> > title of it , and they want
>
> I'd start with a titled car so there was no
> question and retitle it as the best way to go to get
> fed tax breaks at the least hassle..
>
> > to inspect it before giving it a title. Maybe
> > retitling it as you say might
> > be the way.
> Inspections are easy here as long as you have
> receipts for everything. Mostly they want to make
> sure
> nothing is stolen and the lights, brakes, horn work
> and can go 40 mph in Fla.
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
>
> > steve clunn
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage
> less.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got to rethinking my last comment on this subject.
In reading over the ad, did he mean to say "24" car batteries instead of the
printed "2"? If the car moved at all, he could not have done it with just 2
batteries. He could not run the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds on 2 car batteries.
Could he run the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds on 24 batteries?
Did he print "300" hp thinking that "30" hp sounds incorrect for something
that should be all powerful? What car owner buys an ICE with just 30 hp?
In the short term, I assume car batteries will produce like deep cycle
batteries.
If this is not a fraud, he lives in Tallahassee and has built 7 of these
vehicles. Has anyone seen or heard of these vehicles?
Just some thoughts...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 2:50 AM
Subject: Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
> I just sent an email asking to see the time slip for the 14 second
> ET. I started to say what I really thought and then erased it to see
> what kind of BS answer he had. I'm sorry, but I have no tolerance for
> this type of BS that diminishes the advancement of EVs. These people
> deserve whatever happens to them. That is all I will say on this
> subject.
>
> Roderick
>
>
> >I just did a little research of the sellors buying
> >habits. And it looks like he owns a dirt bike that he
> >keeps crashing, bought an X-box, sold said X-box, just
> >sold his video camera, bought a get rich scheme and a
> >how to sell on ebay kit... do you think there is a
> >section in that kit on snake oil?
> >
> > Gadget
> >
> >
> >--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Chimer,
> >> I just did a search on Baldor's web site for a 300
> >> Hp
> >> motor. It weighs 2300 lbs (AC induction, 3 phase,
> >> 460Vac).
> >> Not sure about the dimensions, but I don't think it
> >> will fit in my TEVan (darn, I guess I'll have to
> >> settle for the 200Hp flux capacitor version).
> >> Rod
> >>
> >> --- Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > ebay item #4512963146
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4512963146&rd
=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 300HP electric motor that operates from 2 car
> >> > batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels.
> >> > Fully self contained and self charging. At last
> >> look
> >> > the bidding for plans only is up to $1026. Why
> >> did
> >> > I
> >> > have to be born with a conscience? What a great
> >> > scam.
> >> >
> >> > Just thought you all might like a look
> >> >
> >> > Chimer
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________
> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >> > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced
> >> search.
> >> > Learn more.
> >> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >=====
> >visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
>
> --
>
> Roderick Wilde
> Vintage Golf Cart Parts
> Specializing in Parts for Harley and many other mature carts
> www.vintagegolfcartparts.com
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Phone: 360-385-4868
> Fax: 360-385-7922
> 107 Louisa Street
> Port Townsend, WA 98368
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi from Canada it's been a few years since I last subscribed to the ev list. at
that time I was converting a massey 135 tractor over to electric and the
assistance I received from the group was great. That conversion can be viewed
here http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/196.html my second conversion was a HDB
Zamboni viewed here
http://www.canev.com/Customers/Zamboni/Zamboni.html
I am now converting a model 400 as it is smaller and has a sharper turning
radius then the HDB, I am having a hard time locating a motor. The 400 has a
ford gas motor that drives a sundstrand series 18 hydrostatic transmission with
the hydraulic pump piggybacking on the trans, after talking with a sundstrand
rep he believes that a 20 hp motor would work. I am looking for a 20 hp, 72
Volt dc motor at around 3000 rpm , I believe it will have to be a shunt or
compound motor as it will be on all the time with speed/direction control of
the Zamboni done with the transmission. It is the shunt or compound issue that
I am having trouble with, lots of series traction motors but I need more rpm
control then starting torque.
Anyone have any suggestions or ideas?
Thanks
Ellery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I did a (very)little research.
See:
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch12.html#d0e10778
Under the clean fuel vehicle property section....
You can basically take a $2000.00 deduction for the cost of installing
clean fuel vehicle property and it's supporting infrastructure..
i.e electric motor and batteries.
OR
you can take a deduction for purchasing a new electric vehicle.
So I was wrong before, there is a way to get a federal deduction for doing
an EV conversion
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Lee Hart wrote:
> John, thank you for providing so many good data points to support my
> little chart. Everything you said fits in with it perfectly! :-)
Happy to help out, Lee. And thank you, for giving me the opportunity to clarify
the waters
you muddied up with your chart.
> Most of your anecdotes provide excellent examples of the Optimas and
> Hawkers high peak power capabilities -- just as I said.
Well, you were correct about their high power capabilities...that part, you got
right :-)
> And, there were no examples of long range EVs with these batteries -- as I
> said.
There aren't a lot of examples of long range type EVs that use the high power
spirited
type AGMs, primarily because those who use these batteries are focused on
acceleration,
handling, braking, and over-all 'fun factor' over range per charge. They don't
want to
make their ride weigh too much, thus, they most always use the lightest pack
possible. To
get high range per charge while using lead acid batteries (whether AGM type or
wet cell
type), you need close to a 50% battery to vehicle weight ratio (BVR). Those
who use
flooded type 6V batteries are forced to use a high weight pack by nature of the
low 6V
potential of each module, in order to get the pack up to an acceptable voltage
level of at
least 120V.
> (There are some examples, though. One is Alan Cocconi's Honda Civic with an
> amazing 26 Optimas jammed in, though he also used a generator trailer to
> extend his range, so it wasn't all due to the batteries).
>
Correction. His car went 105 miles @ 55 mph without any assist from the gas
generator.
> While you've had good *calendar* life with these batteries, I'll bet
> your *cycle* life is pretty low. You don't use these vehicles every day;
> in fact, if they have lasted 7 years, I'd guess you cycle them a couple
> times a month on average. That's 7 years x 12 months x 2 cycles/month =
> 168 cycles. In this kind of service, your batteries *will* last many
> years. They will die of old age or some other abuse rather than from
> cycle life.
You are correct for the most part, though Blue Meanie gets driven considerably
more than
this.
> Have you actually done an amphour capacity test on any of these
> batteries? I'm curious to know what they actually deliver.
The Optimas in Blue Meanie delivered between 25-31 ahrs when relatively new.
The current 5
year old pack is definitely getting tired, and can now only deliver 18-22 ahrs.
I'd
estimate there's 300-350 cycles on them. As to the nearly 8 year old Hawkers
that were
used under severe conditions...yes, their ahr capacity is only a fraction of
what it was
when they were new. The fact that they can still deliver BIG currents after all
their
abuse and after so many years though, is still impressive.
> Many of the applications you mentioned are not at all stressfuly from an
> amphour
> perspective -- they just required high peak power for brief periods of
> time.
I'd have to say you're correct about this. All the more reason, that AGMs work
best for
me. Flooded types would have long ago either sulfated to death, corroded
everything around
them, or have been destroyed from that over-zealous right foot of mine.
>I should have labeled my chart "Cycle Life" instead of just "Life".
Yes, you should have.
> What I intended to say was that you'd get more total miles out of a pack
> of floodeds, and less out of Hawker or Optima typ AGMs.
If you had said that, you still would have been wrong. You only get more total
miles from
a pack of floodeds, 'if' you have a HUGE volume of batteries, and 'if' you
limit discharge
currents to the point where the vehicle has sub-standard performance. Again I
say, size
the flooded pack to the same weight as the typical 600-700 lb. pack of AGMs is
in a hi pro
EV, then pull astronomical currents at their much lower pack voltage to be
competitive
with the high voltage string of AGM (that would have to be in the neighborhood
of 2000+
amps for a lowly 72V pack to keep up with a 192V AGM pack at 1000 amps), and
you would get
less total miles out of a pack of floodeds, and, battery failures about once a
week from
melted off posts, warped plates, or exploding batteries!
I'll give you this much.....two identical vehicles, both with 1200 lb. battery
packs, one
an AGM pack the other floodeds, both restricted to low performance with 400-500
amp
controller limits...then yes, the flooded pack would give more range per charge
'and'
about double the cycle life.
> You supported this with your comments on the golf cart batteries in the
> Red Beastie. They provided far more range than your Hawker or
> Optima-powered EVs. I'd guess that its pack delivered 2-3 times more
> miles than your Optima-powered Blue Meanie.
Lee, for crying out loud, Red Beastie had 2500 lbs. of batteries! Of course it
had more
range. Of course it gave more total miles as well, again, because the batteries
had it on
easy street all their lives and never, ever saw high currents. The pack had
approximately
33,000 miles on it when I sold the truck...very impressive life, but only
because the
truck was designed to always pamper the low power floodeds.
I have no problem with flooded type 6V golf car batteries. In fact, I use them
in many
applications. As long as you are ready to accept their shortcomings, they are
great
batteries. As I've stated, a have a bank of 6, Trojan T-145s serving as a
steady, reliable
power supply in my service truck as the 1500W (can actually make 200 watts)
inverter's
power source. Because I've set it up as a series-parallel pack, even at peak
dischareg currents of 185 amps, each battery is limited to about 62 amps
discharge
current. They deliver great performance, and at average discharge currents of
about 20-40
amps, they should last years and years and will deliver most all of their rated
750 cycles....cool.
These batteries work out well in an EV conversion though, 'only' when they are
used in
large numbers, only when the pack is heavy, and only when used
in a low performance application. This is the only way they can deliver their
high cycle
life and high range per charge. This is why I have a big problem when being
compared to
the powerful alternatives of the AGM styel batteries like Optimas, Hawkers,
Orbitals, and
now the new Dekas Intimidators, one lists them as having
high life and high range, because if you're going to compare them directly to
other
batteries that 'can' allow an EV to have gas car performance in most aspects,
then the
rating for the 6V golf car batteries should only be considered when they too,
can deliver this
kind of performance.
> And, you are correct that you need a bigger, heavier pack to get a given
> amount of power from flooded golf cart batteries. Their power capability
> is low, as shown in my chart. I'd guess that for a given amount of peak
> power, you need twice the weight in flooded batteries to match the best
> AGMs.
>
> If you build an EV with flooded batteries, and then try to pull huge
> currents from them, they don't abruptly die. But, you *will* drastically
> shorten their life. So, there is a trade-off point -- a current above
> which you'd get better life and lower cost-per-mile with AGMs.
Let's stop here...we are in total agreement.
See Ya......John Wayland
--- End Message ---
