EV Digest 4011
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Torque converters for DD EV's, Re: KISS AC EV Drive System
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Hawker Odyssey float voltage
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Will Flexcharge work for NiCad?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Curtis 1231C-86XX Maximum Voltage
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: New 600-1,000 amp controllers, Was: Controller overvoltage
headroom, Re: TS cell info
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: "very important that you allow the battery to gas"?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Venturi Fetish
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Mantis Electric Bike (or is it a scooter?)
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: LED Head Lights?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Torque converters for DD EV's, Re: KISS AC EV Drive System
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Blueprinting electric motors
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 300zx
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Hawker Odyssey float voltage
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: High Power Zener
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: High Power Zener
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hm. That is a nice thought however the kids seem to have two speeds:
"Off" and "Full blast".
Currently I'm thinking of completely re-wiring the car by using a pair
of auto starter contactors in the back; one attached to a big resistor,
one bypassing said resistor for low and high speeds. Most times the kids
want it at "high" speed.
Problem is what I really need then is a resetting circuit breaker to
protect the motor, and something to re-enable the plug braking. Plug
brakes could probably be done with a 10amp relay and resistor set so
that it shorts across the motor when off and clears when on, powered by
the floor switch. Safety can be that the floor switch powers this relay,
the NO contacts short the motors across the resistor, and the NC
contacts engage the big contactors which drive battery power to the motors.
Hm
Chris
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are a few 6-15V kits on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7126297700 -- rated 20A
continuous, so maybe the momentary peak is higher? This does have a higher
rating than the other kits I've seen. Would a different MOSFET be enough to
upgrade the current rating?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok Rich, I'm convinced. I'd like to try three regs for an evil assignment.
These regs will be used on my most whacked set of Hawkers, charged in
parallel with six T105's by an Elec-Trak with the dumbest charger in the
universe: A transformer, 2 diodes, and a timer that sticks sometimes.
Do you take paypal?
Chris
Rich Rudman wrote:
ooooo!
There is a dawning of a light!!!
Why this happens needs to be solved my a Battery chemist.
But taking a long discharge on this battery, and fillin it up again... will
change the point at which it vents...
Things get funny after a long shelf life time. Regs help.... also being
less than totally abusive when bringing the Yts back on line helps.
This is the kind of abuse that EVers are really good at. Leave it parked
for months in the snow, light it up drain it, and then recharge it.
The concept of a "Commisioning charge" stolen from the NiCad curves comes to
mind. As a charge to bring them back from the Dead.
Venting BAD!!...let sit, discharge, try again .
And yes with 100 amps of charger.... I rarley sit and wait for a 2 amp
charger to get the job done slowly...
Speaking of that ... I better get a pass on the Orb pack this weekend.. I
have busted butt to get them into equalization... and the efforts are going
well. I don't want to loose that effort.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ooooo!
> There is a dawning of a light!!!
No, unfortunately not ;^>
> Why this happens needs to be solved my a Battery chemist.
That would be ideal. In the meantime, we know that separator dryout
increase O2 generation, and I would also suspect that this particular
battery is/was partially sulphated after having been allowed to
self-discharge to this level. Evidence of the sulphation theory is that
as the battery charged, its voltage rose fairly steadily at 2A up to
near 13.5V, then seemed to level off and perhaps even decrease slightly,
as it would if 'soft' sulphation were being reversed and the internal
resistance were dropping slightly as a result.
> But taking a long discharge on this battery, and fillin it up
> again... will change the point at which it vents... Things
> get funny after a long shelf life time.
Absolutely. I've found that letting YTs sit on a 15V 100mA limited
supply for about a week will also safely bring them right back up to
full capacity.
> Regs help.... also
> being less than totally abusive when bringing the Yts back on
> line helps. This is the kind of abuse that EVers are really
> good at. Leave it parked for months in the snow, light it up
> drain it, and then recharge it.
Well, this is my point really: this battery is an example of the state a
YT could reasonably be expected to be in when one digs their EV out of
the snowbank in the spring, and it was gassing *profusely* at just 14.3V
and <0.25A. That is, regs set to the normal 14.8V would have done
*nothing* to prevent this battery from venting.
I find it particularly interesting that this neglected YT ehxibits very
similar behaviour to that reported for new Orbitals... gasses at an
unusually low voltage and rests at a slightly lower than normal (for an
AGM) voltage.
> The concept of a "Commisioning charge" stolen from the NiCad
> curves comes to mind. As a charge to bring them back from the
> Dead. Venting BAD!!...let sit, discharge, try again .
Sure, though if you're going to steal something from the NiCad curves
you might just as well do Optima's recommended 4A for 16hrs comissioning
charge.
Unfortunately, as you say this battery will behave more normally as I
cycle it, which makes it difficult to test out commisioning charge
algorithms on it to see if I can find a way to bring it up more quickly
without venting, and without regs.
> And yes with 100 amps of charger.... I rarley sit and wait
> for a 2 amp charger to get the job done slowly...
Normally I wouldn't use a 2A charger either, but in this case I couldn't
in good conscience leave that YT sitting at 11.5V now that I knew about
it, and the bench supply was the easiest way to get some charge into it
right away.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Joe is doing a good job of hasshing this out with you, I have
> been laying low.... I am in no mood to fight.. but... you did
> pick on a few points that I feel I have to defend...
No problem, Rich; I really do appreciate you and Joe taking the time to
tag-team me! ;^>
I'm not interested in fighting, but in getting a better understanding of
the nitty gritty details.
> > The undesirable behaviour you describe is due to the
> > PFC charger's lack of intelligence.
>
> It's not sporting to blame lack of hardware
> intelegence....instead of the designer's lack of understanding...
Fair enough, but I really did mean that the behaviour described was
largely the result of the PFC's relatively limited intelligence, not
because of its (or any other) designer's lack of understanding.
Correct me if I am wrong, but once the PFC hits its voltage setpoint,
isn't the charge control limited to setting how long the timer lets the
charger run before shutting it down? If the PFC interprets the reg
cutback signal as essentially meaning that the pack has hit the voltage
setpoint, then the result would for sure be undercharged modules since
it will stop charging after a fixed duration instead of continuing until
all modules are full.
> The senario you are outlining is Reg protection
> without the bypass capability. Sounds like what happens when
> you run loadless Regs without the external loads hooked up.
> Been there ....
> The end result is the over voltaged regs shut the charger
> down... END of charge. You just end up waiting for the
> Stiffest smallest Monoblock to have to conduct all the
> current needed to fill the Largest lowest state of charge
> battery in the string. Your end of charge point is now locked up.
We may differ in our definition of 'shut the charger down'. If you are
charging at 80A when the first module's reg fires, you certainly
shouldn't have to go to 0A to get that module below the threshold again.
When the reg signals the charger to yank back, I am assuming it yanks
back just as much as is required to get the reg back off.
What I expect is that if the cutback signal and charger response are
implemented well, then the charger would run flat out until the first
sensor/reg signals and would then taper the output current so as to
maintain the *maximum* charge rate possible while keeping the cutback
signal inactive. This might, as you suggest, result in a really steep
taper.
One of two things will happen: either the current will cutback to a low
level that continues to charge the less full modules while keeping the
cutback signal off; or, the current will cutback to a low enough level
that the charger simply holds that current regardless of the cutback
signal because it has been determined that at that charge rate damage to
the full modules will be minimal.
Let's not restrict ourselves to what the present behaviour of the PFC or
any other charger is, but rather let's think about the behaviour we
could achieve.
> So Roger.... how many times have you charged a 10 Block
> string of AGM????
Is there something magic about the number 10? My experience is
primarily with shorter strings, like 6 modules, which is still plenty
long enough to see varying module voltages.
> You seam to lack the experience that you need to see why
> I am laughing at you so hard.
Which is precisely why I am participating in this discussion: to benefit
from your experience! This doesn't mean that I will blindly accept
anything you say without questioning it, of course, but make no mistake
I *do* repect your opinion and experience and consider what you report
against my own experience and knowledge before sending off yet another
barrage of questions. ;^>
> Even with solid voltage regulation on the entire string.
> Say 191 +- .5 volts. It is almost impossible to get all the
> batteries to rise above 14.8. Some do some don't, and with
> out regs acouple never will.
OK; let's consider this then. You've just stated that with or without
regs, some modules will not/never rise above 14.8V. So, what is so
special about getting the batteries to or above 14.8V? Once you get the
battery gassing its terminal voltage tells you little if anything about
its SOC; mostly it tells you about the recombination efficiency.
> If you install voltage sensors on all the regs, You will
> just slow the charge process down even farther, But you will
> properly protect the batteries.....
> Regs hurry this a up a LOT.
> Without some bypass current you get protection, without
> any Action to solve the problem.
Right; I'm not arguing that regs do/don't allow a faster charge.
I think I confused the issue with the voltage sensor suggestion but now
that we agree that voltage sensors would provide exactly the same
protection as the regs (i.e. would yank back the charge current so that
the fullest battery's voltage remains "safe") would we can forget about
that and focus on the much more interesting apsect of fully charging
AGMs with/without the benefits of regs.
> > What you seem to be describing here (non-bypassed modules
> > charging at 3A) is the constant current finish portion (or
> > the very tail end of the absorption), such that the charger
> > is pumping a constant 3A into the string and the active
> > reg(s) are locked full on so that the bypassed modules are
> > seeing *no* charge current.
>
> Umm Really no current???? If you say so. But the battery
> continues to take some charge current, Just what it wants,
Hang on, Rich; Joe wrote:
> With regulators installed on each monoblock, the 15.0 will be
> clamped to ~14.5 to keep it from gassing excessively while
> the other monoblocks continue charging at 3 amps.
Which tells me that the charger is pushing 3A into the pack, and
therefore this is the current going into the modules whose regs are
inactive.
My response was written as a question, seeking confirmation that the
situation for the active reg(s) is as Joe seemed to be implying, which
is that one or more of the active regs was full on. If the regs can
bypass up to 3A and the charger is being held back to 3A, this suggests
that at least one reg is locked on, and therefore preventing its module
from seeing *any* charge current. If this were not the case, then the
charger could pump more than 3A into the string and the active regs
would just run at a higher duty cycle to keep the charger current
through the protected modules the same.
Joe later clarified that a 1-2A finish rate is used rather than a 3A
rate, so that the regs are blinking rather than locked on.
> Yea really long durations... like days....
> Nice if you are doing emergency lighting and UPS work,
> Where you have months on your hands.
> Not so nice if your client is standing around twiddling
> his thumbs and wants to get back to Work before dinner time.
UPS charging assumes constant voltage, and yes this can translate to
48hrs or more for a full charge. The whole point of the constant
current finish phase we EVers typically use is to accelerate this, and I
may be suggesting that perhaps a non-reg approach is to hold the current
at the highest rate possible without the highest voltage module going
over our 'safe' threshold, and once the current falls to a suitably low
level, switch to a constant current finish to bring them all to full.
> Are we making progress Roger???, or are you just going to
> argue some more?
Yes absolutely! ;^>
> Do you have a test pack???? Are you seeing
> the same things as I do????
I have test packs (YTs and other AGMs), and I do see many of the same
things you do. However, I haven't got a set of regs, so I am relying on
you being able to stop laughing at me long enough to help me to fully
understand how a pack behaves with regs, and all of the reasons why you
think what regs do (or seem to do) for you is so crucial to properly
charging AGMs.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus wrote:
> > Since hydraulic torque converters multiply
> the
> > torque about 2.5-3 times, wouldn't it help a
> direct EV
> > drive make more torque while keeping amps down?
> And
> > allow a higher top speed?
> > Anyone know of a self contained one that
> could be
> > used for a series motor of about 50hp peak?
>
> Yes; there are free-standing torque converter sold
> in all sizes. They
> are used in various industrial machines.
>
> What I haven't found is a free-standing torque
> converter that also has a
> locking clutch. A torque converter is great while
> accellerating, but for
> cruising you want to lock it to eliminate its
> losses.
That was what I was hoping for, a locking torque
converter.
If they are fairly tight, losses won't be too bad
if they have a low coupling speed in a non locking
type.
I'll see if I can find one at a reasonable price.
Regretfully I don't think belt type torque
converters can handle a series motor's torque.
Before too long the continuously variable ratio
transmissions from Honda, Saturn will be in the junk
yards, maybe they can be made to work.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I got an Odyssey PC625 battery to replace the U1 flooded I was using as
the 12v battery in my Jeep. As my DC/DC converter is always on, I want
to make sure I have the ignition-off voltage set correctly.
The Odyssey factory website says a proper charger is one that "would
bring the battery up to 14.5V then switch to a float voltage of 13.6V"
So is 13.6V good? Will the float voltage need to be changed based on
temperature? The Odyssey is a noticeable improvement over the flooded I
had as the voltage never sags below 12 volts like it used to.
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Drat. So before I re-wire this, does anyone have any thoughts or
> recommendations for a 12 volt electronic speed control? Must be able to
> handle 40amps max.
>
> Thanks!
> Chris
>
http://www.ifirobotics.com/speed-controller-selection-guide.shtml
These controllers were used on a grade school solar vehicle project
sponsored by NASA. This will at least give you another example for
comparison shopping. Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The price is right if you could use a Variac for the source this might be
the answer to controlled charging of NiCad cells. Below is the letter from
Flexcharge and their URL:
Our charge control will work with most sources as long as it is within
the amperage range of the controller. An NCHC60/48 would be a 60 amp
max. 48 volt controller. The price is $233.00 plus freight of $10.00 or
less. The controller will let the battery voltage of ( in your case) 40
cells, rise to 62 volts and then turn off and let the voltage drop to
about 55 volts and turn back on again. We don't regulate the incoming
voltage or amperage but watch the battery voltage very close. Even
though you are monitoring only 40 cells you can pass a higher voltage
through the switching contactor so you are able to charge any number of
cells you want to up to the capacity of your charge source. Flooded
cell NiCad's can usually be charged by voltage monitoring with no
problem. Dry sealed NiCad's are a completely different story and our
control will not work on them.
I didn't read the complete spec sheet you sent me but am sure this will
work. The down side is we are assuming all the cells are healthy. If
you had a bad cell on the system and it was not part of the 40 cell
group it could cause a problem. You will need to be the judge as to if
this will work for you or not. Most of the other systems we have done
this on were lead acid batteries. I do know if you push NiCad's too
hard up or down they get very hot but your limiting factor would be the
capacity of the charging source. If it can only make 20 amps that is
the maximum the battery can receive. Our controller lets the battery
tell it how much charge it wants and turns off at the peak set limit but
lets all of the charge available, get to the battery.
Take a look at our web site where there is a page showing the charge
process graph.
Don Seelye
SES Flexcharge
A Division of Seelye Equipment Specialists
1217 State St.
Charlevoix, MI 49720
231-547-9430 FAX 231-547-5522
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site www.flexcharge.com
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Victor contollers that I saw on the IFI Robotics website below all
appear to require a PWM input signal as provided by a R/C receiver
output. Did I miss ones that can be controlled by a simple pot input?
Another source:
I have bought both 12V and 24V controllers from Diverse Electronics:
http://divelec.tripod.com/id1.html
and have had good luck with them on a kid sized go-kart. I think they
would be very suitable for a PowerWheels vehicle too.
have fun!
Andrew
Mark Thomasson wrote:
Drat. So before I re-wire this, does anyone have any thoughts or
recommendations for a 12 volt electronic speed control? Must be able to
handle 40amps max.
Thanks!
Chris
http://www.ifirobotics.com/speed-controller-selection-guide.shtml
These controllers were used on a grade school solar vehicle project
sponsored by NASA. This will at least give you another example for
comparison shopping. Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Frank, thanks for the info. TS cells go from 4.25V full to 2.8V empty,
though most people consider 3.0V the empty point. So it's quite a wide
range. But knowing that 180 volts is the upper limit is good. 40 TS cells
would be at 170V when fully charged, but the nominal voltage of 3.6V/per
cells give 144V.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Frank Schmitt
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Curtis 1231C-86XX Maximum Voltage
Mine regularly saw 180V without problems (right after an equalizing
charge).
But is the maximum-to-nominal-OCV ratio for LiIon all that different
from PbA? (I missed the first part of the discussion).
-Frank
On Jan 7, 2005, at 10:47, Bill Dennis wrote:
> I asked this question here a few days ago and even sent an Email to
> Curtis,
> but haven't heard a response from either one. The 1231C-86XX can
> handle a
> "nominal" voltage of 144V, but obviously the batteries charge up to a
> higher
> voltage than that initially. So should I consider 13.2V * 12 = 158.V
> to be
> the max, or something 14.4V * 12 = 172.8V to be the max? I'm trying to
> determine the maximum equivalent number of TS cells at 4.25V that I
> could
> use. Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am working on a forklift which has a dual motor setup, the controllers
are separate with a steering sensor and controller to make them work
together.
Mike G.
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Doug and All,
--- Doug Hartley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was refering to an SRE SC325 900 Amp programmable
I looked but couldn't find a 900 amp model of
theirs, SREcontrols.
Did find some interesting units though including
600 amp, 72-96vdc units which also have dual motor
support for about $850 from Cloud Electric?. They
don't know much about them though.
Another interesting one was 1,000 amps at 48vdc!
Anyone using any of these?
They sound like worthwhile units for us.
Especially those of us who want good power from lower
voltages. And the dual motor support has me intrigued.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
controller. I don't
know if other models have similar over-voltage
limits. This limit is
probably set as one of its safety features. Lots of
parameters could be
re-programmed, like low battery cut-off, but I
didn't see this one in the
manual.
Regards,
Doug
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:39 PM 1/7/05 -0500, you wrote:
Hm. That is a nice thought however the kids seem to have two speeds: "Off"
and "Full blast".
Currently I'm thinking of completely re-wiring the car by using a pair of
auto starter contactors in the back; one attached to a big resistor, one
bypassing said resistor for low and high speeds. Most times the kids want
it at "high" speed.
You don't want auto starter contactors. Their pull-down coils are not
rated for continuous use, only momentary. They will burn out. Try a golf
cart supply shop for a continuous rated contactor.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh that's very nice. The MCIPC-12 looks perfect; has forward and reverse
and even regen. Plus a current fold back under overload conditions.
The big question is does it regen when you lift your foot from the
throttle to slow the thing down (plug brake the motor to zero RPM). I'm
guessing I could get a 1-2% range improvement from the regen :-)
$100 is a bit expensive compared to $10, but it's got regen! :-)
Chris
Andrew Letton wrote:
The Victor contollers that I saw on the IFI Robotics website below all
appear to require a PWM input signal as provided by a R/C receiver
output. Did I miss ones that can be controlled by a simple pot input?
Another source:
I have bought both 12V and 24V controllers from Diverse Electronics:
http://divelec.tripod.com/id1.html
and have had good luck with them on a kid sized go-kart. I think they
would be very suitable for a PowerWheels vehicle too.
have fun!
Andrew
Mark Thomasson wrote:
Drat. So before I re-wire this, does anyone have any thoughts or
recommendations for a 12 volt electronic speed control? Must be able to
handle 40amps max.
Thanks!
Chris
http://www.ifirobotics.com/speed-controller-selection-guide.shtml
These controllers were used on a grade school solar vehicle project
sponsored by NASA. This will at least give you another example for
comparison shopping. Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another way to reduce the water comsumption is to install Hydro Cells or
Back East Solar: Water-Miser Vent Caps -
http://www.backeastsolar.com/pr_batteries_watermiser
I had Hydro Cells on my old batteries, but my new batteries are higher, and
should have at least 3 inches of space above the batteries.
Hydro Cell Company said to install a filter air input at one end of the
battery enclosure and a exhaust port at the other end using a low CFM
explosion proof fan to exhaust the air.
This allow air or oxygen to mix with the hydrogen inside the battery cap,
which allow it to return as water.
I install this system 4 years ago on my Trojan T-145's and had to only do
two full watering using only 2 gallons for each watering.
Note: Only add water at beginning of charging and add enough to go 1/4 inch
above the plates. You will find that at end of charge, that this
electrolite level will rise. If the level is not up to specific level at
end of charge, then add more on the next charging cycle.
If you add water at end of charge, you may dilute the electrolite to a lower
specific gravity.
The battery tops are very clean like the day I install them.
If you have any room above the batteries or even in a open non-enclose
battery, it would be best to used the Water-Miser Vent Caps. These caps do
not have to be remove when filling your batteries.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: "very important that you allow the battery to gas"?
> On sealed AGM....
> You can gas, but your should never Vent.
>
> Big difference in concepts...
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 12:28 PM
> Subject: "very important that you allow the battery to gas"?
>
>
> > "You may have heard of people trying to be clever and cut
> > down on the water consumption, so they change their charger
> > back to avoid the gassing state, don't do that. It is very
> > important that you allow the battery to gas, vigorously, the
> > gassing actually stirs this electrolyte. You will get long
> > life and good capacity."
> >
> > http://geocities.com/brucedp/evbatt.html
> >
>
>
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There's a NEDRA SP-A record waiting to be set...
http://autoshow.edmunds.com/news/autoshow/articles/103625/page005.html
David Thompson
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This is probably one of the smallest EVs you'll ever see:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/01/mantis_electric.php
I could see taking this on a commuter train as a way to go between the
train station and final destination...
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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Call me a skeptic, but someone's going to have to show me before I'd
consider LEDs as headlights.
The Luxeon tech I mentioned is a whole different ballgame compared to
"superbright" LEDs. The problem with most LED lighting solutions is the
fact that the LED doesn't throw all that much light, and the focusing
optics are usually crap, and you end up with a very short light zone
where all is very diffuse and no usability as a headlight. These
clusters work well for hikers who don't need the throw, but are
practically useless for any vehicle travelling above 20mph.
You are very correct that the wattage number is meaningless. Lights are
measured in "candlepower' (I'm assuming this is vernacular for
"candelas" or something), and "lumens". Usually though, most lights do
not provide these numbers. Go to the hardware store and look at 100
flashlights. Only a couple will have any meaningful illumination data
listed.
The Luxeon tech, as I mentioned, is a point source with MUCH more
lumenosity, and the quality Luxeon products combine each point source
projector with an individual reflector and individual focusing optics
for a truly impressive light throw. These usually meet or exceed all but
the brightest incandescent bulbs.
The bike light product we use is a single Luxeon element instead of a
triple cluster in order to save power. Even with a single Luxeon
element, the product is rated at over 1000 candlepower.
How low exactly is the power draw? I haven't measured it on the bench,
but 4 AA batteries will power a Luxeon bike light for over a month of
nightly use. I'd estimate something like 40 hours of full power and
brightness runtime off of 4 AAs.
I'm convinced that Luxeon tech will completely replace incandescent
headlights and flashlights. It's a "no compromise" technology that lasts
thousands of times longer than an incandescent bulb and draws very low
power. The automakers know this and many of the concept cars they are
building already utilize them.
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
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jerry dycus wrote:
That was what I was hoping for, a locking torque
converter.
If they are fairly tight, losses won't be too bad
if they have a low coupling speed in a non locking
type.
I'll see if I can find one at a reasonable price.
Regretfully I don't think belt type torque
converters can handle a series motor's torque.
Before too long the continuously variable ratio
transmissions from Honda, Saturn will be in the junk
yards, maybe they can be made to work.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
Sorry I don't know much about automatics. What makes the converter out
of an automatic transmission unsuitable?
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7944661385&category=63692>
They seem fairly inexpensive, but I don't know what work they would
require to operate.
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
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I am watching and learning from this discussion. Well said on both sides,
gentlemen.
I'm hearing a lot of discussion about balancing voltage on 12 volt modules
in an EV battery. What I'm NOT hearing from either of you (though I may
have missed it) is discussion of two issues:
1. The voltage of the 12v module does not necessarily indicate its real
state of charge.
2. Ten or 12 modules, all at nearly the same voltage, may very well have
cells with widely divergent voltages.
Actually, Roger *almost* brought #1 up when he reported on his YT which was
gassing at 14.3 volts and under 3 amps. I'd guess that this module is
partly sulfated and thus its gassing voltage is lower. At that voltage,
it's as charged as it's going to get. Roger is at the threshold of this
issue when he says "regs set to 14.5 or 14.7 or 14.8V wouldn't do a damn
thing to protect this battery." (OTOH one might argue that it's just about
toast already.)
To elaborate on point #2: Cells within a block vary in temperature, from the
outside to inside ones. This, and manufacturing tolerances, guarantee that
you are always going to have to gas some cells in order to charge others.
That's a fact of life, no?
Comments? Reactions?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Americans are satisfied with things because they are large; and
if not large, they must have cost a great deal of money.
-- Lepel Henry Griffin, ca. 1885
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
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We are all kids, only the toys have changed :-)
I picked up some aluminum plate to make my motor adapter for the 300zx
this weekend.
It proved fruitful to show up at 4:30 on a friday with cash in hand, I
got two "reminents" for a great price. I think he gave me the whole
piece instead of cutting off what I needed because it was so late.
The list of peopel that want to see this 300zx when I finish is really
getting long.
I noticed the warp 9 has a large bore in the shaft, Does anyone know if
that was intended to be clearance for the transmission pilot, I am at a
minimum of 2.3 inches from transmission to motor face at the moment. Is
that "normal"
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
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----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: 300zx
> Thanks Steve, that's a good data point. How much does each battery
> weigh?
there excides 3600 golf carter's , I belive there 65 lbs, so almost 1700 lbs
of batteries , its better that 1/3 of the weight in batteries , . If "
sombody " was doing a zx and had 25 orbitals instead this would end up
around 3600 , and a car that could handel the power, .
I don't know if you are looking to give this car a name or not, but if you
are my suggestion is
Porky Pig
Th th thaaaats all folks....
damon
My Mazda pu with trailer and lawn mower comes in at 5800 , and has been
bringing home the bacon almost a year now. I've been towing that lawn
trailer around my town with different ev's for over 10 years , most of the
time , when I meet somebody new they already know me as the "guy with the
electric truck towing the lawn trailer , , not the guy with the electric
Porsche.
Steve Clunn
> --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I weighted the 26 Golf carted 300zx yesterday at the junk yard ,
> > 4,580 lbs ,
> > Its doing a little better , as the brakes are not scrubbing , .
> > Steve Clunn ,
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
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At over 14 volts, the battery will be overcharged and eventually dry out.
How much over 14 will determine how long it takes for the damage to occur.
13.6 volts will keep the battery charged very nicely. If you never turn off
the DCDC converter, you can set it slightly lower. If you do turn off the
DCDC converter when you are not driving it, you can set it higher.
In cold weather, the setpoint can go up to charge it faster. The problem is
that a higher setpoint can damage (overcharge) in hot weather. 13.6 volts is
a good compromise for all temperatures.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: Hawker Odyssey float voltage
> Hi,
>
> I got an Odyssey PC625 battery to replace the U1 flooded I was using as
> the 12v battery in my Jeep. As my DC/DC converter is always on, I want
> to make sure I have the ignition-off voltage set correctly.
>
> The Odyssey factory website says a proper charger is one that "would
> bring the battery up to 14.5V then switch to a float voltage of 13.6V"
> So is 13.6V good? Will the float voltage need to be changed based on
> temperature? The Odyssey is a noticeable improvement over the flooded I
> had as the voltage never sags below 12 volts like it used to.
>
> -Nick
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
>
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No. To absorb the full charger current, the device will need to dissipate
quite a lot of energy.
It can use a smaller dissipater if the device has the ability to turn down
the charger current.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 3:11 AM
Subject: High Power Zener
> To protect a TS cell from over-voltage, can it be as simple as clamping a
1%
> 4.2V or 4.3V Zener dialog across the cell terminals?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
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The device is designed to go across a single cell and disconnect the load if
the cell is over charged or over discharged. The switches are inappropriate
for a long series string of cells.
Other manufacturers make these devices for series strings of cells. One of
those would be more appropriate.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: High Power Zener
> Would this make life any easier?
>
> http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MC33349-D.PDF
>
> Appears as though they are 0.40 each, but may not handle the power or may
> require expensive external components.
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: January 7, 2005 11:33 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: High Power Zener
>
> Bill Dennis wrote:
> > To protect a TS cell from over-voltage, can it be as simple as
> > clamping a 1% 4.2V or 4.3V Zener dialog across the cell terminals?
>
> Yes, in principle. But, real zeners aren't good enough. Zeners around 4.3v
> have a very soft threshold, large variations between devices, and drift a
> lot with temperature. For example a 1N5336 4.3v 5% 5w zener
> draws:
> 1ma at 3.0v
> 25ma at 3.6v
> 110ma at 4.0v
> 290ma at 4.3v
> 550ma at 4.5v
> 1100ma at 4.7v
>
> Note that it still draws 25ma at 3.6v; so it would run down a fully
charged
> battery just from sitting for weeks. And the clamping action is very soft,
> and would let the cell go over 4.3v even with only 290ma of charging
> current.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!"
> -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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I think a vaiac charger can Quickly murder your NiCd batteries.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> > I've backed down from three strings of NiCads in the truck. Going
> > one string in a recumbent motorcycle. I've seen some higher voltage
> > drill gun chargers that might work. I think.
>
> Just remember that 99% of consumer chargers are designed to be cheap,
> cheap, and cheap. They have no interest or incentive to make them work
> well. Most of these chargers will slowly murder your batteries.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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