EV Digest 4018
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: LED Head Lights?
by Bob Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Wiring problem appears...thanks snow :(
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Individual battery monitoring
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: LED Head Lights?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Saving the environment
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Individual battery monitoring
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Battery Research: Too Little, Too Late?
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wiring problem appears...thanks snow :(
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Individual battery monitoring
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: LED output
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Wiring problem appears...thanks snow :(
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Saving the environment
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Legal? : incandescents vs LED, efficency is relative measurement
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Vectrix vs eCycle
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 11" Warp Specs
by UWStudent EVProject <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Radio Interfeence
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fw: Hybrid Cars
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Radio Interfeence (dead raptor)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Fw: Hybrid Cars
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee;
Here is a press release from Luxeon.
They are quoting 120 Lumens from the 5 watt devices and 30 lumens from
the 1 watt devices.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2002/4/prweb36940.htm
Bob
Lee Hart wrote:
I could not find any measures of illumination on luxeon's website.
Markus L wrote:
I found the following numbers at http://elektrolumens.com/Luxeon.html
Luxeon Power Light Sources emit up to 325 lumens of white light, as
much as 790 lumens of red light, and comparable brightness in other
colors, depending on configuration.
Ok, that's a start. What product produced these numbers? How much power
did it require to produce this much light?
Numbers expressed like this are still nearly meaningless. "I am up to
100 years old" is technically true, but it tells you nothing about how
old I actually am.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone!
Well, the thick slush and snow here in northern Utah brought out a
design flaw in the 200sx. I'm kicking myself so hard. I have all my
wiring and electrical components (except for my vacuum pump which is
still pretty well protected) in a weatherproof box under the hood. The
only other exception to this is an Anderson connector on my 2/0 main
cables and the Ferraz/Shawmut fuse. These are both along the bottom
side of the chassis. I put the fuse there because I had seen pictures
of blown fuses before, and didn't want that in my electrical box to rain
down on the Zilla, or in the passenger compartment. Well, it turns out
there would have been a great place to put it in the battery area of the
passenger compartment. The Anderson connector was placed where it was
because it was the first easily accessible place closest to the
electrical box into which the 2/0 cables run.
The snow and slush got all over the connector and fuse - caking them in
it. I didn't notice anything wrong until I pulled in and went to
charge. Then my GFCI tripped immediately as I plugged in. My guess was
that either the fuse or the Anderson connector were making a path to the
chassis ground. I spent some time cleaning them off, and make a few
attempts to plug back in. When I got them cleaned off pretty good (they
were still pretty wet), I finally got it to charge without tripping the
GFCI.
It will be a major pain to make the change now. I will probably have to
buy more cable and a few lugs. And it will probably take several hours.
It would have been so easy to do it correctly from the start. I just
didn't think it would be a problem. So anyone out there planning a
conversion, keep your main cables nice and sealed - i.e. don't put any
connections where they can get plastered with snow, ice, or water.
Now for a question - what should I do? Now that school has started
again, I just don't have the time to re-work things. I plan on doing it
in the summer. I'm thinking of getting some sort of plastic sheet and
protecting it that way.
Another question - what is the best way to measure a path to ground? My
first thought was checking the resistance. My cheapo Wal-mart
multimeter shows a huge *negative* resistance (like in the 100k region)
in one polarity, and infinite in the other polarity. But if I measure
the voltage drop from different places along the battery pack and the
chassis, I get a voltage drop. It's never as high as the pack voltage,
but was pretty close before I removed any snow. Even after the GFCI
wasn't tripping, I could still get a 50 or 60 volt drop from the high
point in the pack and the chassis. It seems like it should be
tripping. Can anyone explain why I'm getting the readings I'm getting?
Is this the best way to tell if my pack is isolated from the chassis?
This worries me. I'm sure there is still moisture on the fuse and
Anderson connector, which is probably why I'm still getting a voltage
drop. Since V=IR, if I'm reading 50V, then the resistance could be 200k
and the current flowing would be .25mA....right?
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Breakage is the mechanical red-light of racing,
If you red-light once in a while you are pushing the edge, if you
red-light a lot, you are loosing.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been off-list for a while but am now back, and I'd like to know if
anyone knows of a solution for my application.
I've got a set of Evercel batteries for my Solectria E-10 truck, to
replace the lead-acid group 24's in there now. I am working on getting
the time to rework some things on the truck so it can accomodate them
with proper ventilation, but before I install them, I want to be sure I
have a battery monitoring system set up for the pack. There will be 24
batteries, 2 strings of 12, for 144V. I want to be able to keep track
of temperature and voltage on each of the batteries at all times, both
while charging and discharging. Isolation between the modules is critical.
I want to have the temperatures and voltages logged into a small onboard
computer, so the temp/voltage sensors would have to have some sort of
computer interface capability. This would be important to make sure I
comply with the charging guidelines for these batteries, and it would
enable me to make sure I catch any problems before they get out of
hand. Primarily, if the battery temperature is too high, I want the
system to inhibit charging until the temperature drops to a safe reading.
Are there off-the shelf sensors that will do this? If not, can someone
point me to someone who would be able to help implement this system?
I'd appreciate any feedback.
-Tom
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Lee;
>
> Here is a press release from Luxeon.
>
> They are quoting 120 Lumens from the 5 watt devices and 30 lumens from
> the 1 watt devices.
>
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2002/4/prweb36940.htm
>
> Bob
I doubt a press release will impress Lee, but it does show my household 11
watt/600 lumen CFs are almost twice as efficient at "seeing the road" light, if
not as good in the "being seen" department.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Matt,
The only e-bike I can think of that comes close to what you are looking for
is the Vectrix scooter (www.vectrixusa.com), which has a 62 mph top speed
and up to a 70 mile range. It has a 3.7 kWh NiMH battery pack which takes
about two hours to charge. But it is not available yet. Later this year
Vectrix will start the process of tooling up their 31,000 sq. ft. European
factory in Wroclaw, Poland, where they will begin producing 500 bikes a
month late this year. The bikes will go on sale in the UK late this year or
early next year. The UK distributor is Alex Bamberg, who is based in
Hampshire. He has two websites: www.autoft.com and www.zevltd.com. The
price throughout Europe will be around 6-7,000 euros, similar to
petrol-powered maxi-scooters of comparable performance, such as the Suzuki
Burgman 400 and the Yamaha Majesty 400.
I took the Vectrix scooter for a long test ride last year (including with my
wife on the back as a passenger) and was pleased with the bike's
performance, which lived up to the company's claims. I was one of the first
prospective customers in the US to sign up on Vectrix's website to reserve
an order. I had been under the impression that Vectrix would start US
production and sales sometime in 2006, but the company recently revealed in
an audio interview on EV World (www.evworld.com) that they have now pushed
back their US launch until 2007 or 2008. Bummer! But the European launch
is apparently still on track for late 2005/early 2006.
Otherwise, if you are not willing to wait a year, your only alternatives
right now are the many moped-class electric scooters with a 30 mph top speed
and 30 mile range, such as those from EVT, Oxygen, Swap, Peugeot, etc. They
cost around 2-3,000 euros. There are two retailers in the London area which
sell these moped-class e-scooters: www.ebikecentral.co.uk and
www.harishs-autos.co.uk. There is also a retailer in the central England
area of Nottingham and Leicester which sells these e-scooters:
www.granbyscooters.co.uk.
There is also one other possibility that I am aware of, although you will
again have to wait until later this year. Jukka Jarvinen of FEVT
(www.fevt.com) in Finland is planning to launch a commercial venture to
increase the range (currently 30 miles) of EVT 4000e moped-class electric
scooters (www.evtworld.com) by swapping out their stock lead-acid batteries
for Thunder-Sky (www.thunder-sky.com) lithium-ion batteries. As I
understand it, this will still be a 30 mph moped-class scooter, but Jukka
claims that he has achieved a range of over 100 miles with the TS li-ion
batts. I believe that Jukka is now in the final stages of development of
his battery management and charging system for the TS li-ions, so the
modified EVT 4000e li-ion scooters with a 100+ mile range might be available
for sale in Europe sometime later this year. I would guess that the price
might be around 4,000 euros. You should contact Jukka at www.fevt.com to
check on all of this. As you said that you have been lurking here for ages,
I guess you probably read the very lively discussions on this list over the
last few weeks about Thunder-Sky li-ions, wherein a number of different
viewpoints and opinions were expressed. If you missed those threads, I'd
encourage you to go back and look through the archives so that you can get
an idea of the pros and cons of using these Thunder-Sky li-ions (just as
there are pros and cons and trade-offs with any battery choice).
Good luck,
Charles Whalen
----- Original Message -----
From: "spidercats" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 6:37 PM
Subject: Saving the environment
Hi,
I have been lurking for ages now waiting for something to come along
which would suit me. I did think of building my own EV Bike but it
seems there are a lot smarter people out there than I and I don't have
any of the skills or finance to make the mistakes I would need to in
order to build something from scratch.
So my questions, given the rather alarming predictions of global
meltdown and CO2, emissions, are;
Does anyone out there have knowledge of a long range motor scooter or
motor bike with a capability to cruise at about 40mph? The range would
need to be around 90miles to cover my commute although I might be able
to get away with 50 to 70 and a recharge at work or otherwise, does
anyone know of an EV builder in the UK that would be able to build such
a beast?
All the best
Matt G
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been off-list for a while but am now back, and I'd like to know if
anyone knows of a solution for my application.
I've got a set of Evercel batteries for my Solectria E-10 truck, to replace
the lead-acid group 24's in there now. I am working on getting the time to
rework some things on the truck so it can accomodate them with proper
ventilation, but before I install them, I want to be sure I have a battery
monitoring system set up for the pack. There will be 24 batteries, 2
strings of 12, for 144V. I want to be able to keep track of temperature
and voltage on each of the batteries at all times, both while charging and
discharging. Isolation between the modules is critical.
I want to have the temperatures and voltages logged into a small onboard
computer, so the temp/voltage sensors would have to have some sort of
computer interface capability. This would be important to make sure I
comply with the charging guidelines for these batteries, and it would
enable me to make sure I catch any problems before they get out of hand.
Primarily, if the battery temperature is too high, I want the system to
inhibit charging until the temperature drops to a safe reading.
Are there off-the shelf sensors that will do this? If not, can someone
point me to someone who would be able to help implement this system? I'd
appreciate any feedback.
-Tom
Hi Tom
Welcome back to the EVDL.
The EVBMS Yahoo group is very active and has some of the best minds from
this list on it.--
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVBMS/
IIRC, Sheer has substantial experience with using Evercels in an EV and BMS
engineering.
Good Luck!
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration http://klanky.com
-- Animation Projects
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The power gap between current needs and what batteries can deliver for
electronics today
reflects a decision made years ago to all but abandon basic battery research in
favor of
more flashy fuel-cell technology, says Donald Sadoway, a battery expert and
professor of
materials engineering at MIT. "All the agencies in Washington said summarily,
'We're out
of battery research,'" he says.
http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/story/0,10801,98804,00.html
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try this...
-Connect a 10K resistor in series with the positive of your multimeter set
to Milliamps.
-Ground the negative meter lead.
-Connect the resistor to pack positive and read the milliamps (note the
polarity) as I1.
-Connect the resistor to pack negative and read the milliamps (note the
polarity) as I2
-Compute the total resistance to ground using R=(Pack Voltage)/(I1-I2).
-Subtract the 10K ohms from R to get the equivalent leakage resistance.
This should give a reasonably repeatable measurement of the leakage
resistance.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 9:03 PM
Subject: Wiring problem appears...thanks snow :(
> Another question - what is the best way to measure a path to ground? My
> first thought was checking the resistance. My cheapo Wal-mart
> multimeter shows a huge *negative* resistance (like in the 100k region)
> in one polarity, and infinite in the other polarity. But if I measure
> the voltage drop from different places along the battery pack and the
> chassis, I get a voltage drop. It's never as high as the pack voltage,
> but was pretty close before I removed any snow. Even after the GFCI
> wasn't tripping, I could still get a 50 or 60 volt drop from the high
> point in the pack and the chassis. It seems like it should be
> tripping. Can anyone explain why I'm getting the readings I'm getting?
> Is this the best way to tell if my pack is isolated from the chassis?
> This worries me. I'm sure there is still moisture on the fuse and
> Anderson connector, which is probably why I'm still getting a voltage
> drop. Since V=IR, if I'm reading 50V, then the resistance could be 200k
> and the current flowing would be .25mA....right?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ryan
> --
> - EV Source -
> Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
RS485 types:
http://partner.advantech.com.tw/epartner/Files/Temp/1-LG0N1.pdf
http://partner.advantech.com.tw/epartner/Files/Temp/1-1L6QV-2.pdf
Each unit supports 8 analog inputs. The 4017 will read 8 battery voltages
and the 4018 will read 8 thermocouples.
These are also available in Ethernet models as 6017 and 6018.
http://www.advantech.com/products/Model_Detail.asp?model_id=1-LS7FX&PD=
http://www.advantech.com/products/Model_Detail.asp?model_id=1-LS7G7&PD=
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Individual battery monitoring
> I've been off-list for a while but am now back, and I'd like to know if
> anyone knows of a solution for my application.
>
> I've got a set of Evercel batteries for my Solectria E-10 truck, to
> replace the lead-acid group 24's in there now. I am working on getting
> the time to rework some things on the truck so it can accomodate them
> with proper ventilation, but before I install them, I want to be sure I
> have a battery monitoring system set up for the pack. There will be 24
> batteries, 2 strings of 12, for 144V. I want to be able to keep track
> of temperature and voltage on each of the batteries at all times, both
> while charging and discharging. Isolation between the modules is
critical.
>
> I want to have the temperatures and voltages logged into a small onboard
> computer, so the temp/voltage sensors would have to have some sort of
> computer interface capability. This would be important to make sure I
> comply with the charging guidelines for these batteries, and it would
> enable me to make sure I catch any problems before they get out of
> hand. Primarily, if the battery temperature is too high, I want the
> system to inhibit charging until the temperature drops to a safe reading.
>
> Are there off-the shelf sensors that will do this? If not, can someone
> point me to someone who would be able to help implement this system?
> I'd appreciate any feedback.
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee said:
LUMENS are a measure of illumination -- the total quantity of light
delivered in all directions.
CANDELA are a measure of brightness -- how bright the light appears in
ONE direction only.
[headlight usage] requires illumination; lots of lumens or
candlepower.
No offense Lee, but you are lost in a text book and talking out of both
sides of the equation. First you say that it is lumens that is the
critical factor, than you say that headlights need lots of lumens OR
candlepower (candelas).
Honestly, this is why conversations like this make me crazy. You counter
practical experience with technical doublespeak, discounting real
experience saying that only the abstract numbers matter. Then when
someone bothers to FIND you a number, you discount it as well as
marketing BS, then quote technical doublespeak back in return.
If you are looking for a low power alternative that competes nicely with
incandescent, then luxeon is the current option. If you want to wait for
confirmation by a major independent lab telling you what is equivalent
and what isn't, then keep burning your incandescents as you will be
waiting a while (and Lee will have problems with the lab's work
anyway).
Honestly, I don't believe that the numbers are going to be helpful,
because the products can be driven at different power levels for
different luminosities anyway, and it is very hard to judge abstract
equivalencies between disparate products and technologies without seeing
what these products do when installed on the vehicle.
Out in the street in the REAL world (where the rubber meets the road), a
prospective lighting source either HAS what it takes or it DOESN'T.
Luxeon is the real deal. I know this from lots of personal experience.
Accept that or not, as you like.
My original statement stands. A triple cluster of luxeon elements
combined with the focusing optics will THROW enough light ahead of you
to be a suitable replacement for a basic headlight at a MUCH lower power
level. Luxon tech is small, lightweight and even scalable! If you want
more light, you can add more focused luxeon elements for more
illumination ahead of you and STILL be way under what a pair of
incandescents will draw.
The tech may or may or may not meet your personal standards and
requirements, but it does meet mine and I am VERY happy with the low
temp, low power draw, high output, focused beam, luxeon products that I
have been using on my high speed EVs for most of 2004.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What you have done is the #1 cause of EV fires that I know of. Salt
slush in Anderson connectors results in a short that doesn't pop the
fuse but becomes a big arc welder. Which sets the vehicle on fire
after a bit. It usually happens on charger and a GFCI won't stop a
battery fed fire when it start at the high overcharge voltage as the
batteries finish charging. The arc starts, a GFCI if present should
strip, but now the arc is established and it continues relatively
silently until someone sees the smoke.
You say you can't fix it? IMO, then stop driving it. Charge the
batteries and disable the traction pack by breaking the strin ing the
middle.
If you know you are going to change it, then maybe you could "pot" the
fuse with a tube or three of RTV, and the same with the Anderson
connectors. Not that traction wires should ever run along the bottom of
the car, they are asking to be compromised or severed.
Crouse Hinds Cam-Lok makes the connector that should replace that
Anderson. Not nearly as easy to use as an Anderson, but actually made
for that environment.
Good luck
Seth
On Jan 11, 2005, at 12:03 AM, Ryan Bohm wrote:
Hi everyone!
Well, the thick slush and snow here in northern Utah brought out a
design flaw in the 200sx. I'm kicking myself so hard. I have all my
wiring and electrical components (except for my vacuum pump which is
still pretty well protected) in a weatherproof box under the hood.
The only other exception to this is an Anderson connector on my 2/0
main cables and the Ferraz/Shawmut fuse. These are both along the
bottom side of the chassis. I put the fuse there because I had seen
pictures of blown fuses before, and didn't want that in my electrical
box to rain down on the Zilla, or in the passenger compartment. Well,
it turns out there would have been a great place to put it in the
battery area of the passenger compartment. The Anderson connector was
placed where it was because it was the first easily accessible place
closest to the electrical box into which the 2/0 cables run.
The snow and slush got all over the connector and fuse - caking them
in it. I didn't notice anything wrong until I pulled in and went to
charge. Then my GFCI tripped immediately as I plugged in. My guess
was that either the fuse or the Anderson connector were making a path
to the chassis ground. I spent some time cleaning them off, and make
a few attempts to plug back in. When I got them cleaned off pretty
good (they were still pretty wet), I finally got it to charge without
tripping the GFCI.
It will be a major pain to make the change now. I will probably have
to buy more cable and a few lugs. And it will probably take several
hours. It would have been so easy to do it correctly from the start.
I just didn't think it would be a problem. So anyone out there
planning a conversion, keep your main cables nice and sealed - i.e.
don't put any connections where they can get plastered with snow, ice,
or water.
Now for a question - what should I do? Now that school has started
again, I just don't have the time to re-work things. I plan on doing
it in the summer. I'm thinking of getting some sort of plastic sheet
and protecting it that way.
Another question - what is the best way to measure a path to ground?
My first thought was checking the resistance. My cheapo Wal-mart
multimeter shows a huge *negative* resistance (like in the 100k
region) in one polarity, and infinite in the other polarity. But if I
measure the voltage drop from different places along the battery pack
and the chassis, I get a voltage drop. It's never as high as the pack
voltage, but was pretty close before I removed any snow. Even after
the GFCI wasn't tripping, I could still get a 50 or 60 volt drop from
the high point in the pack and the chassis. It seems like it should
be tripping. Can anyone explain why I'm getting the readings I'm
getting? Is this the best way to tell if my pack is isolated from the
chassis? This worries me. I'm sure there is still moisture on the
fuse and Anderson connector, which is probably why I'm still getting a
voltage drop. Since V=IR, if I'm reading 50V, then the resistance
could be 200k and the current flowing would be .25mA....right?
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would love to get a Vectrix, too, but so far it has been all PR, no
product. More PR than eCycyle, even.
Seth
On Jan 11, 2005, at 1:53 AM, Charles Whalen wrote:
Hi Matt,
The only e-bike I can think of that comes close to what you are
looking for
is the Vectrix scooter (www.vectrixusa.com), which has a 62 mph top
speed
and up to a 70 mile range. It has a 3.7 kWh NiMH battery pack which
takes
about two hours to charge. But it is not available yet. Later this
year
Vectrix will start the process of tooling up their 31,000 sq. ft.
European
factory in Wroclaw, Poland, where they will begin producing 500 bikes a
month late this year. The bikes will go on sale in the UK late this
year or
early next year. The UK distributor is Alex Bamberg, who is based in
Hampshire. He has two websites: www.autoft.com and www.zevltd.com.
The
price throughout Europe will be around 6-7,000 euros, similar to
petrol-powered maxi-scooters of comparable performance, such as the
Suzuki
Burgman 400 and the Yamaha Majesty 400.
I took the Vectrix scooter for a long test ride last year (including
with my
wife on the back as a passenger) and was pleased with the bike's
performance, which lived up to the company's claims. I was one of the
first
prospective customers in the US to sign up on Vectrix's website to
reserve
an order. I had been under the impression that Vectrix would start US
production and sales sometime in 2006, but the company recently
revealed in
an audio interview on EV World (www.evworld.com) that they have now
pushed
back their US launch until 2007 or 2008. Bummer! But the European
launch
is apparently still on track for late 2005/early 2006.
Otherwise, if you are not willing to wait a year, your only
alternatives
right now are the many moped-class electric scooters with a 30 mph top
speed
and 30 mile range, such as those from EVT, Oxygen, Swap, Peugeot, etc.
They
cost around 2-3,000 euros. There are two retailers in the London area
which
sell these moped-class e-scooters: www.ebikecentral.co.uk and
www.harishs-autos.co.uk. There is also a retailer in the central
England
area of Nottingham and Leicester which sells these e-scooters:
www.granbyscooters.co.uk.
There is also one other possibility that I am aware of, although you
will
again have to wait until later this year. Jukka Jarvinen of FEVT
(www.fevt.com) in Finland is planning to launch a commercial venture to
increase the range (currently 30 miles) of EVT 4000e moped-class
electric
scooters (www.evtworld.com) by swapping out their stock lead-acid
batteries
for Thunder-Sky (www.thunder-sky.com) lithium-ion batteries. As I
understand it, this will still be a 30 mph moped-class scooter, but
Jukka
claims that he has achieved a range of over 100 miles with the TS
li-ion
batts. I believe that Jukka is now in the final stages of development
of
his battery management and charging system for the TS li-ions, so the
modified EVT 4000e li-ion scooters with a 100+ mile range might be
available
for sale in Europe sometime later this year. I would guess that the
price
might be around 4,000 euros. You should contact Jukka at www.fevt.com
to
check on all of this. As you said that you have been lurking here for
ages,
I guess you probably read the very lively discussions on this list
over the
last few weeks about Thunder-Sky li-ions, wherein a number of different
viewpoints and opinions were expressed. If you missed those threads,
I'd
encourage you to go back and look through the archives so that you can
get
an idea of the pros and cons of using these Thunder-Sky li-ions (just
as
there are pros and cons and trade-offs with any battery choice).
Good luck,
Charles Whalen
----- Original Message ----- From: "spidercats"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 6:37 PM
Subject: Saving the environment
Hi,
I have been lurking for ages now waiting for something to come along
which would suit me. I did think of building my own EV Bike but it
seems there are a lot smarter people out there than I and I don't
have
any of the skills or finance to make the mistakes I would need to in
order to build something from scratch.
So my questions, given the rather alarming predictions of global
meltdown and CO2, emissions, are;
Does anyone out there have knowledge of a long range motor scooter or
motor bike with a capability to cruise at about 40mph? The range
would
need to be around 90miles to cover my commute although I might be able
to get away with 50 to 70 and a recharge at work or otherwise, does
anyone know of an EV builder in the UK that would be able to build
such
a beast?
All the best
Matt G
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bruce and All,
--- Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At this point I would like to see a DOT approved
> replacement rather than heated discussion as to what
> looks good enough. Rather than what is the
> measurements or what is the comparison. If we could
> have a good link to a DOT approved replacement that
> would be super. However so far the only site I have
> found talked about xenon as headlight and LED for
> Tail
> and marker lights and the possible future of an LED
> headlight. The luxeon technology looks good for some
> applications however it does not suggest it is good
> for automotive headlights yet.
I believe it is required for any required
headlight or tail light to be DOT approved so not to
cause accidents by blinding other drivers.
When I converted imported gray market euro cars
to US DOT we had to change these at a large cost
dispite their being better lights usually.
I personally won't use other than approved
headlights for legal reasons.
Another thing is LED's are more, are? like lasers
in that their beams are very narrow allowing a much
brighter measurement dispite much less light power
out. So in reality it puts out much less light
overall. To get wider beams nessasary they use lenses
to spread the light to get useful lighted area but
this cuts average light per sq ft of lit area. If
using a frosted lens to get light pattern like a
normal light bulb the light on surfaces gets really
bad.
The only real way to tell is to try one and see
if it will do the job it seems. Some bike units do
quite well for them but may be not enough for a faster
vehicle.
HTH's,
jery dycus
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would love to get a Vectrix, too, but so far it has been all PR, no
product. More PR than eCycyle, even.
Respectfully Seth, I and many others have at least ridden the Vetrix,
and as far as I know, every report I've seen from actual riders is that
they were impressed with the performance of the prototypes. The Vectrix
product is solid, and has the best user control that I have EVER seen in
an ANY motorcycle or scooter EV, gas or hybrid.
I don't know of anyone who has ridden the BEV or hybrid eCycle
prototypes, nor has the eCycle hybrid cycle prototype shown up at any
conferences (to my knowledge), nor is their product even assembled or
planned for production at this time (to my knowledge).
I'd love to read that the Vectrix is going on sale in North America this
year as well, but at least it is going into production in Europe, and
I'm guessing that if you want one bad enough, you'll be able to import
one.
The Vectrix is real. The eCycle isn't. That's the bottom line.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Megasite
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah we had that problem too, I have contacted Net Gains and they are supposed
to get me more specific info on the 11" Warp. I will post what info I receive...
-Stephen
>Tom Shay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm interested in the Warp 11-inch motor but haven't yet found
>detailed information about it. Your comment, Rod, comparing
>the 11-inch motor to two 8's suggests that details about the 11-inch
>are available. I'd like to make comparisons myself of the 11-inch
>Warp to other motors. Where can I find the information I need?
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page � Try My Yahoo!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
At least EVerybody with a PFC series charger. Anybody else getting "hash" or
the hissys on your FM radio while charging? Havent seen anything on that ,other
than electronic noise in the EV while driving. Rich? Is there an easy "Fix" to
clean up radio reception, especially the FM bands, Don't care about AM don't
listen there. A filter? I think that it , the noise, is carried on the AC house
lines, rather than an RF thing. My old Bad Boy Variac setup never had that
effect, although my Blue Box half wave across both 120 sides of the 3 wire
hookup to ground makes RF big time.
Now to this AM's problems. My Rapter just went to sleep, right in the
garage! No smoke, charge works, line contacter pulls in and..........nothin!
Damn car won't go. It's been sitting out the snow and ice in an unheated
garage, not the semi heated garage it is used to. It's way to show it's
distain?Animate perversity of inaninite objects?
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
Sent this note to the SF Chronicle, from the links in EV world. They, SF
Chronicle asked for responses, so I did. Letya know if I get an answer.They
would probably be surprised that somebody in CT would respond.
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Rice
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:29 AM
Subject: Hybrid Cars
Hi ! Nice Folks at SF Chronicle;
Da ja vue as some folks say! Seems that California can't try to clean up it's
OWN air.
Remember the CARB? Ca Air Resources Board? They tried and almost succeeded in
getting Electric Cars into production. Like ONE percent of cars sold in Ca were
to be electric. GM built the fine EV-1, Ford imported the Think Commuter car
from Norway. In fact they EVEN bought the company. Many EV's were running
around in CA, with their happy owners trying to buy out their leases. NO way
would they actually SELL you an EV. I tried to buy the first EV-1 I drove, the
GM guy laughed, said that they would NEVER sell the car outright. I said" I
guess that you don't want anyone running around with only ONE moving part in
your motor, thumbing your nose at EVery gas station, filling up at home?"He
didn't SAY outright , only nodded in agreement.
As we have the best Govt. Oil Money can buy, as well as the biggest CARtel
in the World, wasn't long Big Money went to work changing, or pulling teeth
from ANY Ca law that could rock the boat, even though it is the Titanic. With
FOUR MORE YEARS staring us in the face, things aren't gunna change, at least
for the better. Fuel Cells? Hah! We in the EV fraturnity call them Fool Cells,
a thing to suck up Govt grants to " research" into making it work. Too many
steps, none efficient to make them work, be easier and cheaper to just charge
the advanced battery system of a Electric car. Oil companies have bought into
battery research, to squelch any promising systems, as they own most of the
photovoltaic panel outfits. God forbid! Free power, we're talking here. They
haven't taxed sunlight or wind yet. But if this technology cought
on.......Hell! they have a tax on electrics in Or, because they aren't using
ang gas!! Hybrids, too, I think?
Electrics have, by politics become the preserve of the backyard builders. I
converted my old VW Rabbit to electric 5 years and 70 thousand miles ago. The
Internet is our link to the world, Over a thousand folks from all walks of life
subscribe to the Electric Vehicle Discussion List at SanJoseState U. in Ca. We
share tech stuff, good friends and ideas, always ready to help "newbees" drive
electric. Ca. leads the way, with many chapters of the Electric Auto Assoc.
Right in SF you have several chapters.
I'm in Connecticut, read your article on line, and took your challenge to
write back. Small World! But we have to think that way. What with China looking
for it's piece of the Oil pie, and other developing countries, we have nowhere
to go but UP in prices and scarsity. Not to mention that all that oil, where
EVER it comes from ,fouls our air, drains our national resources. BIG bux going
overseas to folks that hate us. Speaking nationwide, as CT's air is as crappy
as CA, we sit downwind from NY and NJ.
Thanks for hearing me out.
Bob Rice
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(snip)
My PFC really does a number on my wife's wireless keyboard located about
50' away :-)
Yes, my Rapter did this as well. Contactor never went in. Turned out to
be a pre-charge resistor that turned into charcoal. If you open it up,
and yours is like mine, it will be obvious...
I think the replacement is 15 Ohms, 25W or something. DCP will tell you.
Might be worth opening it up to have a look before mailing it off.
- Steven Ciciora
> Now to this AM's problems. My Rapter just went to sleep, right in the
> garage! No smoke, charge works, line contacter pulls in
> and..........nothin! Damn car won't go. It's been sitting out the snow
> and ice in an unheated garage, not the semi heated garage it is used
> to. It's way to show it's distain?Animate perversity of inaninite
> objects?
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi bob
this is a great letter I hope it get pubished. can I
cut and paste it to my senator as you have said what I
believe better than I can
thanks
keith
> From: Bob Rice
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:29 AM
> Subject: Hybrid Cars
>
>
> Hi ! Nice Folks at SF Chronicle;
>
> Da ja vue as some folks say! Seems that California
> can't try to clean up it's OWN air.
>
> Remember the CARB? Ca Air Resources Board? They
> tried and almost succeeded in getting Electric Cars
> into production. Like ONE percent of cars sold in Ca
> were to be electric. GM built the fine EV-1, Ford
> imported the Think Commuter car from Norway. In fact
> they EVEN bought the company. Many EV's were running
> around in CA, with their happy owners trying to buy
> out their leases. NO way would they actually SELL
> you an EV. I tried to buy the first EV-1 I drove,
> the GM guy laughed, said that they would NEVER sell
> the car outright. I said" I guess that you don't
> want anyone running around with only ONE moving part
> in your motor, thumbing your nose at EVery gas
> station, filling up at home?"He didn't SAY outright
> , only nodded in agreement.
>
> As we have the best Govt. Oil Money can buy, as
> well as the biggest CARtel in the World, wasn't long
> Big Money went to work changing, or pulling teeth
> from ANY Ca law that could rock the boat, even
> though it is the Titanic. With FOUR MORE YEARS
> staring us in the face, things aren't gunna change,
> at least for the better. Fuel Cells? Hah! We in the
> EV fraturnity call them Fool Cells, a thing to suck
> up Govt grants to " research" into making it work.
> Too many steps, none efficient to make them work, be
> easier and cheaper to just charge the advanced
> battery system of a Electric car. Oil companies have
> bought into battery research, to squelch any
> promising systems, as they own most of the
> photovoltaic panel outfits. God forbid! Free power,
> we're talking here. They haven't taxed sunlight or
> wind yet. But if this technology cought
> on.......Hell! they have a tax on electrics in Or,
> because they aren't using ang gas!! Hybrids, too, I
> think?
>
> Electrics have, by politics become the preserve
> of the backyard builders. I converted my old VW
> Rabbit to electric 5 years and 70 thousand miles
> ago. The Internet is our link to the world, Over a
> thousand folks from all walks of life subscribe to
> the Electric Vehicle Discussion List at SanJoseState
> U. in Ca. We share tech stuff, good friends and
> ideas, always ready to help "newbees" drive
> electric. Ca. leads the way, with many chapters of
> the Electric Auto Assoc. Right in SF you have
> several chapters.
>
> I'm in Connecticut, read your article on line,
> and took your challenge to write back. Small World!
> But we have to think that way. What with China
> looking for it's piece of the Oil pie, and other
> developing countries, we have nowhere to go but UP
> in prices and scarsity. Not to mention that all that
> oil, where EVER it comes from ,fouls our air, drains
> our national resources. BIG bux going overseas to
> folks that hate us. Speaking nationwide, as CT's air
> is as crappy as CA, we sit downwind from NY and NJ.
>
> Thanks for hearing me out.
>
> Bob Rice
__________________________________________________
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