EV Digest 4029
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: How to take action, EM, EV truck? (was: RE: save the EV Rangers)
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Longer range thought.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: CE news
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) EV Marriage made in Heaven ? FlexCar and EV Club
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Help Field excitation
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) NO POLITICS - READ THIS
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Charging Trade-offs (was: The Amazing Little Hawkers.)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV digest 4028
by Stephen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) 400 amp DC circuit breaker on Ebay
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: CE news
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Charging Trade-offs (was: The Amazing Little Hawkers.)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by "Klemkosky, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Call for a separate list? Re: Backdoor Politics
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
by "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Call for a separate list? Re: Backdoor Politics
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Call for a separate list? Re: Backdoor Politics
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you! Well said, John - I too have been resisting the urge!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
> Hello to All,
>
> I'm just about ready to call this list quits, and sign off for good. How
many times have I
> and others begged our co-listers to keep their political views to
themselves, and stay on
> topic? Now, here comes the new 'sneaky' trend that several have recently
used. You know
> who you are, and you know the drill.....you come on, blather on bashing
this person, then
> this one, touting your political beliefs, then, you say...'Oh, sorry, I
better not discuss
> politics', or 'Please take any further discussion of this topic
off-list'....as if saying
> that after you've had your say, makes it all 'OK'. It doesn't! The list
charter is
> clear... NO POLITICS.
>
> Intentionally violating the list charter and the wishes of others by being
political and
> taking your shots, then hiding behind a closing comment that you 'think'
makes it all OK,
> doesn't cut it.
>
> Examples:
>
> John Bryan:
>
> > There was one called Fahrenheit 9/11 that looked awefully
interesting....I then approached
> > a very attractive woman who was standing on the curb and said
> > "quite a movie huh?". She replied that "everyone should watch it before
they vote".
> >
>
> Bob Rice:
>
>
> > Govt consperesy here? Of course they will go off in a
> > tirade over the last prez #$%^&! NOBODY here voted for "W"around here
in
> > CT. Watched "Farenheit 911" again, on DVD . God HELP America. OK I'll
quit
> > ranting here. This is a EV List, not politcs.
> >
> >
> Chris Tromley:
>
> > I'm not so sure he should
> > leave Bush alone yet though....prove beyond any doubt that it's
perfectly OK to be an
> > evil, murderous, thieving despot, as long as you play nice and make your
vast oil
> > reserves available to the US. It *is* all about oil. Sorry, I know
that's
> > OT and political, but I'm feeling pretty pi**ed off too. Please take
any
> > further discussion of this topic off-list.
> >
>
> Thankfully, David Dymaxion posted the following:
>
>
> > Please, no political firestorm on the EVDL. I'd love it if any of the
> > NEDRA greats could set Rush Limbaugh straight about EVs being slow
> > and unloved!
> >
>
> This, is how to state an opinion and make a call to action. Notice, he did
not bash
> anyone, he did not rant on and on about politics, and he was still able to
make his point.
> To further underscore this, note that I 'am' a fan of Rush, but since I do
not blindly
> agree with all he says, and, since I feel he is way off here, I'm taking
David's
> suggestion to heart and am crafting a response.
>
> It pains me to see people I consider close EV friends, good guys who are
welcome and hang
> out here at the Wayland EV laboratory and juice bar, posting political
rants on the list.
> I must tell you all, there's a lot of lip biting on this end of the data
stream, and
> there's a lot I'd like to let loose with, but I resist, and I will
continue to do so.
>
> What's it going to take, to make you guys simply stop? The EV List is
supposed to be a
> fun, enlightening and informative place where we can all get together in
our common bond
> that is our love for EVs. It's a place where newbies can get educated, a
place where racers
> share what they've learned at the track, a place where you can find
hard-to-get parts, a
> place where you can ask others who may have done what you're considering
doing, a place where
> brilliant engineers are happy to answer questions, and it's a place where
friends are
> made. Please, don't turn it into an unfriendly place by posting stuff that
has no business here.
>
> See Ya...John Wayland
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Felix Gardner wrote:
Some people have typed in their posts that it is impossible for them
to talk with coworkers at work about EV, but for me, no one has yet
turned away when I say electric car. I am immediately asked, "What
about an electric truck (mostly everyone drives either a small pickup,
a full sized truck, or an enormous 4X4), can they go as fast and far
as one of those cars?" This is probably because everyone I work with
have already witness the versatility and abilities of EV.
What can I say to people I work with to get them more interested in EV?
Felix
Hi Felix
You could show them some examples of hotrod EVs,
here are a few...
tZero - 300 mile range, 0-60 in 3.8 seconds-
http://www.acpropulsion.com/ACP_tzero/SEMAtrip2003.htm
World's Quickest Electric Bike-
http://www.killacycle.com
World's Quickest Electric Car-
http://www.wurts.net/ElectrifiedMotorSports/
White Zombie-
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/035.html
The Tango-
http://www.commutercars.com/
Otmar's 914 Porsche-
http://evcl.com/914/
Gone Postal-
http://www.suckamps.com/
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
Maniac Mazda-
http://www.evparts.com/about/index.php?show=mazda.ihtml
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/047.html
Lightning Rod II Street Rod-
http://www.evparts.com/about/index.php?show=roadster.ihtml
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/wilde/sterfo1.htm
Lectro Rover 4x4-
http://www.evparts.com/about/index.php?show=rover.ihtml
The Buckeye Bullet - 314 mph-
http://www.buckeyebullet.com/
The Roger Hedlund 100 MPH Club-
http://www.nedra.com/100mph_club.html
NEDRA Record Holders-
http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html
More than 500 EVs of all descriptions with specs-
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
This stuff outta get 'em goin'
:^D
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> I often thought of setting up 2 EV's to solve long day problems.If your house
> is in the middle of the day, like mine: home->work->home->(errands or
> school)->home, you can just switch cars mid-day
>
> But what about if you had to commute 60 miles each way and time was the
> limit on chargeing at the destination or you had to charge a distance
> from work, like at a garage or a fellow EV'ers.
> Why not have 2 EV's leave one at or near destination and just drive the
> few miles to pick it up after work and swap.
Could be done! This is one of many novel strategies:
- Have a swap-able battery pack. Leave a pack and a charger at various
strategic locations.
- Have a multi-stage EV, like rockets using a 1st/2nd/3rd stage to
go higher than any one could by itself. For example, tow a battery
trailer, which you discharge and drop off somewhere along the way,
then continue without it. Or, carry a smaller EV (Ebike, Emotorcycle).
Drive to a location where you can park and plug in, and use the
Ebike to finish the ride to work.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 1/15/2005 6:39:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The ce had a great nite.The new zilla allows me to do a different type of
burnout now. I used the valet mode last nite with 2000 amps and way less
than 100
volts to do the burnout.The amps keep the tires spinning but they do not
grow
like the old zilla setup,so I now have a completly preped surface.I forgot
to
set the normal mode in the 3rd run last nite,the car had a great
1.4something
60ft.(even with the brush mechenism fully advanced.I leave it advanced for
bracket racing)but by the time was 3 -400ft out she fell on her face,until I
reached for the normal mode button.With 2 11.94 runs with .015 reaction
times I
put her in the trailer.A quick wipe down and its off to the 1st points race
on
Sunday. Dennis Kilawatt Berube
Hey Dennis, this was a nice quick run down of what happened last night with
your electric dragster, but other than us gear heads, the rest of the list
probably thinks you're just getting over a hangover from to many Whiskey Sours.
Glad to see you and your car are back "on track" go kick some ICE bracket
butt.
Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's official ! The FlexCar chapter in Seattle, is giving special
membership and discounts to any one in the Seattle EV Association
driving/owning an Electric Vehicle or a Neighborhood EV !
I think this is a marriage made in EV Heaven. Here is how it works.
An EV owner/user signs up, takes a $50 discount, and drives to any one
of many FlexCar parking lots round Seattle. Park your EV, pick up your
Honda, or even a few Honda Hybrids, and drive your 50 100 150 mile trip.
Some FlexCar pick-up points will even allow you to charge your 20 to 40
mile/per/charge EV while you make your 100, 200 mile trip.
I know there are other FlexCar outlets in Portland OR. and I think
San Francisco too. Our local manager, Tracy Carroll,one of the
origional FlexCar founders, should spread the concept to their other
outlets.
Here below is a Press-Release-announcement I sent to our local NPR Radio
station (KUOW ) here in Seattle, a few days ago:
"The Seattle EV Association and FlexCar have teamed up to offer a
winning combination to folks who wish to own an EV but often need a
vehicle to go a greater distance. Special FlexCar membership discounts,
as well as free parking at FlexCar pick-up locations have been offered
to any SEVA member owning and operating an EV or NEV. Also in some
FlexCar locations modest Re-Charging facilities may be offered as well,
thereby greatly enhancing the operating characteristics of EV ownership."
AS a follow up to this, Tracy has a FlexCar customer who works at
another NPR station here in the Seattle area ( KEXP 90.3 Mhz ) and
Tracy and I will be interviewed on the 25th on the above subject for a
program which will be aired on their local program "Sustain ability" on
the 28th or 29th...(not sure)
GOOD NEWS ALL ROUND YES !!
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the Alltrax ET controller will do what you want.
http://www.alltraxinc.com/old/Elec-Trak.htm
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament],
"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will
the right answers come out?" I am not able rightly to apprehend the
kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.
-- Charles Babbage
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been busy the last few days and I'm just now catching up on the list.
I was about to post the following note when I saw John Wayland's comment -
he said almost everything I intended to say. But I'd like to amplify it a
bit, and add something from the assistant list administrator's point of
view.
We have some newbies here who don't know about the fairly solid gentlemen's
(and ladies') agreement here to avoid politics. They have something of an
excuse. What's sad, though, is that some of the noise is coming from
longtime contributors who SHOULD know better and seem to have forgotten.
EV folks come in all kinds of political flavors, from far left to far right,
top to bottom, inside to outside, Atlantic to Pacific, Mars to Venus. Given
the polarization that exists, any time someone brings up partisan politics,
someone else is going to get REALLY mad. Then the flames rise and the noise
of argument gets so loud that nobody can hear the talk about EVs any more.
Look, folks. What we all have in common is an interest in EVs. Leave the
partisan politics out of it, COMPLETELY. If it makes you feel better, write
what you think, but then DELETE IT and post without the political rant.
Here's the threat: I don't like going through the process of having people
removed from this list, but I will do it for those who can't control their
impulse to start an argument. If that's the only way the rest of us can
carry on talking about EVs, so be it. But I continue to believe that MOST
of the list members want to keep the peace.
John is right, the "stealth politics" is unacceptable. Saying "I know I
shouldn't do this, but I can't stop myself" is only half true. Damn right
you know you shouldn't, but "I can't stop" is rubbish. You are an adult.
They are YOUR typing fingers under YOUR control. That is what separates
humans from animals: controlling themselves for the good of society or
themselves, not always doing what impulses suggest. That's self control.
If you won't use that control, then we don't want you here.
NO PARTISAN POLITICS ON THIS LIST. Is that so tough?
I'm not saying you can never discuss politics here. Part of EV policy is
tied up in politics, and in some cases it's unavoidable. But there's a
world of difference between saying something like "in the current situation,
we probably shouldn't expect any legislation to support EVs," which is
nonpartisan and emotionally neutral, and some of the comments we've had
recently. I hope you see the difference. If not, email me privately and
we'll discuss it.
Many heartfelt thanks to those who have refused to fan the flames here. I
appreciate and admire your restraint, and I hope that others will follow
your example.
As for the most recent issue, here's the nonpartisan response.
Like every other commercial radio and television program, the Limbaugh
show's primary purpose is to sell advertising time. It doesn't matter
whether the politics of a show is left, right, up or down. In these sorts
of programs, announcers' comments may or may not be their own opinions, may
or may not be based in fact. (There's a famous story in the radio business
about the newly hired talk show host who, 5 minutes before his first
airshift, stuck his head into the program director's office to ask: "I
forget, am I supposed to be pro-gun or anti-gun?")
Accuracy doesn't matter anyway. The programs (and the commentary) are
intended to draw and hold the audience their advertisers want to reach.
Period. Some items may be spot on, others partly accurate; probably some
are pure opinion or even hearsay. These programs should be considered
entertainment, not news.
If it makes you feel better, use the contact information that's been posted
here to inform the relevant person. But I warn you, not only will you be
wasting your time, you'll end up feeling worse! Broacasters no longer are
required to present opposing viewpoints; the Fairness Doctrine was repealed
years ago. Commercial radio and television program producers owe the public
almost nothing (unless they're stockholders ;-). In fact, you're apt to
find that if any use at all is made of your letter, it will be to ridicule
you. Do you really want that?
Lawsuit? Don't waste your time there either. There's no legal basis for
it. Slander is "Oral communication of false statements injurious to a
person's reputation," and no person's reputation has been impugned here.
One man expressed his opinion about EVs. He's entitled to do that. He
happens to have a big soapbox. So it goes. Welcome to the real world:
Freedom of the press belongs to the man who can buy one.
If you really want to try to change Limbaugh's mind, unquestionably the
best way is to get him into in a real world EV. It doesn't even have to be
Blue Meanie fast, either - just reasonably competent, something that can
handle the expressway with aplomb and go 50 miles in a day (point out that
that's 18,000+ miles per year). Whether there's any way to make that
happen, I don't know. How about a simple invitation called in?
Raving about this will just eat you up. Posting partisan political rants
may very well get you bounced from this list. So don't! Instead, turn your
anger to something constructive.
I say forget what Rush Limbaugh - or anybody else - thinks. Build your EV.
Drive it. Improve it. Drive it some more. Improve it some more. Tell
everyone who will listen that it WORKS: your own irrefutable proof that the
naysayers are wrong.
Then, get out there and promote EVs. Contact the local paper, have them do
an article. Start a club. Show off your car. Volunteer to drive it in the
Memorial Day parade. Take it to the local drivein when they have "ride
days." Host conversion workshops. Look at the kind of grassroots EV
promotion that Steve Clunn does for an example, and adapt it to your
situation.
Whatever you do, quit bellyaching about politics. We have what we have,
whether you agree with it or not. If you like it, support it; if you don't,
work to change it. But when it comes to EVs - just forget it. Get out
there and make something!
David Roden
Assistant EV List Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Transformer charger, maximum amps (20A or so into each string) until first
regulator reaches bypass voltage.
Reduce charging rate and continue until all regulators are bypassing.
Time to allow all batteries to settle to this state of charge.
Inhibit the regulators and pulse charge at around 10 amps 15 seconds on,
45 seconds off, for a certain time, to add that negative plate charge).
See any problem with this?
Should work great.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:24 PM 1/14/2005, John Wayland wrote:
Hello to All,
I'm just about ready to call this list quits, and sign off for good. How
many times have I
and others begged our co-listers to keep their political views to
themselves, and stay on
topic? Now, here comes the new 'sneaky' trend that several have recently
used. You know
There has been no objection whatsoever in the past about the
discussion of identical negative EV comments made on TV, radio, or in
magazines. We collectively write letters to the author or the publisher. We
send educational Emails collectively. We discuss the best course of action
to fix the damage done and perhaps attempt to educate the misinformed
author of the negative comments.
It is important to take a breath and think, "What is different
about this specific instance?" The logical answer is "Nothing."
This instance itself isn't any different. We should act towards
this instance as we have acted towards the previous instances. We should
discuss what we can do to fix the damage done. We should write a collective
letter to both the author of the false statements as well as the network
and the broadcasters, just as we have always done in the past.
I recall numerous and lengthy posts by John Wayland about a local
newspaper reporter that was hostile towards EVs. This time, however, it is
the identical EV bashing, but on a national broadcast, yet John objects to
comments made in this thread that mirror his own comments about that local
reporter. John needs to think about why he so strongly objects to this
thread, yet originated many identical threads in the past.
Comments about the false and misleading statements of Rush
Limbaugh (or anyone else) regarding EVs is completely within the scope of
this list. This is not a "political" discussion. It is a discussion about
blatant EV misinformation spread in a public forum. Just because the
statements were made by a "political" figure, does not automatically make
the discussion about those statements "political."
"
If the same comments had been made by Road and Track or Motor
Trend or your local newspaper, no one (including john) would be objecting
to the "political" nature of the thread. John would be adding in his two
cents (more like five pages) with the rest.
Most folks on this list drive EVs and promote EVs to help dispel
the misconceptions and misunderstandings about EVs. We consider it our
civic duty. If the public is told that EVs are slow, useless, and driven
only by "kooks" that don't even like them themselves, we need to work
together to repair the damage done.
If you are ready to quit the EV list because someone said
something negative about foolish comments made by Rush Limbaugh, you need
to seriously rethink your priorities.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota website. Now I
know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR, but GAWR is not
clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
GAWR is the "gross axle weight rating": The amount of weight that can
be placed on or over each axle. Not all vehicles have an even 50-50
weight distribution (especially a truck with an empty bed). GVWR should
be less than the sum of the axle GAWRs, and not all vehicle have equal
axles either.
--
++++++++Big+++Father+++A+++++++++
V. Rev. Stephen M. Arenburg +
Former Science Head, SDHS +
www.easternorthodoxcatholic.org +
www.avonmaitland.on.ca +
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.12 - Release Date: 1/14/05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got a 400 amp, 160 V DC Heinemann breaker for sale on Ebay ( no bids
yet and $9.95 minimum) .
It's at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3866589352&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT
and the item number is 3866589352.
I bought it for my Echo, but decided to go breaker-less. I'l have two
contactors ( one at each end of the controller) and, in a real emergency (
if the controller AND both contactors fail) , there's always the clutch.
Phil Marino
Rochester, NY
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Dennis, this was a nice quick run down of what happened last night
with
your electric dragster, but other than us gear heads, the rest of the list
probably thinks you're just getting over a hangover from to many Whiskey
Sours.
Glad to see you and your car are back "on track" go kick some ICE bracket
butt.
Jim
Funny, thats kinda what I was thinking too. Was about to call/email him to
see what he was up to. I had just about figured that Dennis had given up his
lucrative Welder Repair business and EV Recordholding lifestyle for the
glitter and rush of professional gambling and touring EV exhibitor. Keep in
touch Dennis, we er love ya!! DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If you are ready to quit the EV list because someone said
> something negative about foolish comments made by Rush Limbaugh, you need
> to seriously rethink your priorities.
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
A waste of bandwidth or just off-topic - long posts may be too little editing
rather than too much bandwidth, and if the topic is related to EVs, aren't we
on-topic? You know what they say about brevity...(it's the soul of getting to
the point).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:11 PM 15/01/05 -0700, Bill Dube' wrote:
Transformer charger, maximum amps (20A or so into each string) until
first regulator reaches bypass voltage.
Reduce charging rate and continue until all regulators are bypassing.
Time to allow all batteries to settle to this state of charge.
Inhibit the regulators and pulse charge at around 10 amps 15 seconds on,
45 seconds off, for a certain time, to add that negative plate charge).
See any problem with this?
Should work great.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Thanks, Bill. I've read a lot and listened a lot, but there is always a
"gotcha", if you don't ask.
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sorry, but I thought this list was more technical
in nature and was supposed to stay away from the
ideological viewpoints. I could care less about WHY
people own or love EV's on this list. I DO care about
the technical issues and breakthroughs that are
made.
In a nutshell, I agree with Wayland and respectfully
disagree with Bill Dube. I think we need to do a soul
search on this list because I'm thinking of dropping
off as well. Getting 50+ emails a day would not be
so bad if I didn't delete most of them because of off
topic discussions or political BS.
--Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat Jan 15 12:23:04 2005
Subject: Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
At 01:24 PM 1/14/2005, John Wayland wrote:
>Hello to All,
>
>I'm just about ready to call this list quits, and sign off for good. How
>many times have I
>and others begged our co-listers to keep their political views to
>themselves, and stay on
>topic? Now, here comes the new 'sneaky' trend that several have recently
>used. You know
There has been no objection whatsoever in the past about the
discussion of identical negative EV comments made on TV, radio, or in
magazines. We collectively write letters to the author or the publisher. We
send educational Emails collectively. We discuss the best course of action
to fix the damage done and perhaps attempt to educate the misinformed
author of the negative comments.
It is important to take a breath and think, "What is different
about this specific instance?" The logical answer is "Nothing."
This instance itself isn't any different. We should act towards
this instance as we have acted towards the previous instances. We should
discuss what we can do to fix the damage done. We should write a collective
letter to both the author of the false statements as well as the network
and the broadcasters, just as we have always done in the past.
I recall numerous and lengthy posts by John Wayland about a local
newspaper reporter that was hostile towards EVs. This time, however, it is
the identical EV bashing, but on a national broadcast, yet John objects to
comments made in this thread that mirror his own comments about that local
reporter. John needs to think about why he so strongly objects to this
thread, yet originated many identical threads in the past.
Comments about the false and misleading statements of Rush
Limbaugh (or anyone else) regarding EVs is completely within the scope of
this list. This is not a "political" discussion. It is a discussion about
blatant EV misinformation spread in a public forum. Just because the
statements were made by a "political" figure, does not automatically make
the discussion about those statements "political."
"
If the same comments had been made by Road and Track or Motor
Trend or your local newspaper, no one (including john) would be objecting
to the "political" nature of the thread. John would be adding in his two
cents (more like five pages) with the rest.
Most folks on this list drive EVs and promote EVs to help dispel
the misconceptions and misunderstandings about EVs. We consider it our
civic duty. If the public is told that EVs are slow, useless, and driven
only by "kooks" that don't even like them themselves, we need to work
together to repair the damage done.
If you are ready to quit the EV list because someone said
something negative about foolish comments made by Rush Limbaugh, you need
to seriously rethink your priorities.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I also tend to find myself on Wayland's side of the argument, a list
should stick to its intended topic so members aren't flooded with email
they never "asked" to receive by subscribing.
On the other hand, I also feel that while some are interested in EVs
because it's novel or unique, or presents an compelling engineering
challenge or cool geek factor, a lot of us also do this [perhaps
primarily] because it fits with strongly held beliefs about the world, the
environment and our role in it. I think there's a lot of commonality in
these views (though clearly it's not universal) and therefore I think a
lot of people post inappropriate material on this list under the
assumption that most listmembers would agree with them.
I also think that in the appropriate setting, these conversations might
not be entirely fruitless. Instead of proscribing outright a behavior
which seems a strong temptation for many of us, perhaps what's called for
here is a separate discussion list, focusing on the political and social
issues of EVs and EV advocacy? Anything from PR action plans to
philosophical discussions to pundit-bashing, where folks are free to rant
and be ranted at...
If there's enough interest in this sort of thing, I'd be happy to lend a
server to the task as long as bandwidth remains tolerable.
Opinions?
--Christopher Robison
AustinEV
Klemkosky, Mark A said:
> I'm sorry, but I thought this list was more technical
> in nature and was supposed to stay away from the
> ideological viewpoints. I could care less about WHY
> people own or love EV's on this list. I DO care about
> the technical issues and breakthroughs that are
> made.
>
> In a nutshell, I agree with Wayland and respectfully
> disagree with Bill Dube. I think we need to do a soul
> search on this list because I'm thinking of dropping
> off as well. Getting 50+ emails a day would not be
> so bad if I didn't delete most of them because of off
> topic discussions or political BS.
>
>
>
> --Mark
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sat Jan 15 12:23:04 2005
> Subject: Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
>
> At 01:24 PM 1/14/2005, John Wayland wrote:
>>Hello to All,
>>
>>I'm just about ready to call this list quits, and sign off for good. How
>>many times have I
>>and others begged our co-listers to keep their political views to
>>themselves, and stay on
>>topic? Now, here comes the new 'sneaky' trend that several have recently
>>used. You know
>
> There has been no objection whatsoever in the past about the
> discussion of identical negative EV comments made on TV, radio, or in
> magazines. We collectively write letters to the author or the publisher.
> We
> send educational Emails collectively. We discuss the best course of action
> to fix the damage done and perhaps attempt to educate the misinformed
> author of the negative comments.
>
> It is important to take a breath and think, "What is different
> about this specific instance?" The logical answer is "Nothing."
>
> This instance itself isn't any different. We should act towards
> this instance as we have acted towards the previous instances. We should
> discuss what we can do to fix the damage done. We should write a
> collective
> letter to both the author of the false statements as well as the network
> and the broadcasters, just as we have always done in the past.
>
> I recall numerous and lengthy posts by John Wayland about a local
> newspaper reporter that was hostile towards EVs. This time, however, it is
> the identical EV bashing, but on a national broadcast, yet John objects to
> comments made in this thread that mirror his own comments about that local
> reporter. John needs to think about why he so strongly objects to this
> thread, yet originated many identical threads in the past.
>
> Comments about the false and misleading statements of Rush
> Limbaugh (or anyone else) regarding EVs is completely within the scope of
> this list. This is not a "political" discussion. It is a discussion about
> blatant EV misinformation spread in a public forum. Just because the
> statements were made by a "political" figure, does not automatically make
> the discussion about those statements "political."
> "
> If the same comments had been made by Road and Track or Motor
> Trend or your local newspaper, no one (including john) would be objecting
> to the "political" nature of the thread. John would be adding in his two
> cents (more like five pages) with the rest.
>
> Most folks on this list drive EVs and promote EVs to help dispel
> the misconceptions and misunderstandings about EVs. We consider it our
> civic duty. If the public is told that EVs are slow, useless, and driven
> only by "kooks" that don't even like them themselves, we need to work
> together to repair the damage done.
>
> If you are ready to quit the EV list because someone said
> something negative about foolish comments made by Rush Limbaugh, you need
> to seriously rethink your priorities.
>
>
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> =(___)=
> U
> Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a small pack of bb600 cells that I attempted to charge for the first
time today.
When I received them they appeared to be semi-dry. I added water to 1/4
inch above the bottom of the fill tube. When I charged them the water level
rose dramatically. I was concern that they might overflow. Should I not
have added the water?
For charging I put them in series and applied a constant 10 amp charge.
One cell rose to 1.70 volts by 15 amp hours. The other cells were settled
in around 1.4 volts. I figured the high cell was bad and removed it from
the group then resumed charging at 10 amps. Any hope for the 1.7-volt cell
or is it just bad?
I had recalled reading that the cells should be charged to 1.65 volts. At
45ah the voltage had only risen to 1.45 to 1.46 volts per cell. 45ah seamed
like a lot for 30ah cells, and a coupled of the cells had began venting. I
stopped charging at this point. Are the cells fully charged or should I
continue charging? What is the best way to determine when they are full?
There is not much info on the web on these guys. Does anyone have a
charging profile for these cells that I could use?
Thanks
Jerald Dodson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
I think this is a good idea, a list for the EV
political side that allows people to promote EV's in
this matter and keep the EVDL dedicated to technical
EV questions that we all learn from.
So, bring it on Chris
Thanks,
Rod
--- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I also tend to find myself on Wayland's side of the
> argument, a list
> should stick to its intended topic so members aren't
> flooded with email
> they never "asked" to receive by subscribing.
>
> On the other hand, I also feel that while some are
> interested in EVs
> because it's novel or unique, or presents an
> compelling engineering
> challenge or cool geek factor, a lot of us also do
> this [perhaps
> primarily] because it fits with strongly held
> beliefs about the world, the
> environment and our role in it. I think there's a
> lot of commonality in
> these views (though clearly it's not universal) and
> therefore I think a
> lot of people post inappropriate material on this
> list under the
> assumption that most listmembers would agree with
> them.
>
> I also think that in the appropriate setting, these
> conversations might
> not be entirely fruitless. Instead of proscribing
> outright a behavior
> which seems a strong temptation for many of us,
> perhaps what's called for
> here is a separate discussion list, focusing on the
> political and social
> issues of EVs and EV advocacy? Anything from PR
> action plans to
> philosophical discussions to pundit-bashing, where
> folks are free to rant
> and be ranted at...
>
> If there's enough interest in this sort of thing,
> I'd be happy to lend a
> server to the task as long as bandwidth remains
> tolerable.
>
> Opinions?
>
> --Christopher Robison
> AustinEV
>
>
>
> Klemkosky, Mark A said:
> > I'm sorry, but I thought this list was more
> technical
> > in nature and was supposed to stay away from the
> > ideological viewpoints. I could care less about
> WHY
> > people own or love EV's on this list. I DO care
> about
> > the technical issues and breakthroughs that are
> > made.
> >
> > In a nutshell, I agree with Wayland and
> respectfully
> > disagree with Bill Dube. I think we need to do a
> soul
> > search on this list because I'm thinking of
> dropping
> > off as well. Getting 50+ emails a day would not
> be
> > so bad if I didn't delete most of them because of
> off
> > topic discussions or political BS.
> >
> >
> >
> > --Mark
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sat Jan 15 12:23:04 2005
> > Subject: Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys,
> knock it off!
> >
> > At 01:24 PM 1/14/2005, John Wayland wrote:
> >>Hello to All,
> >>
> >>I'm just about ready to call this list quits, and
> sign off for good. How
> >>many times have I
> >>and others begged our co-listers to keep their
> political views to
> >>themselves, and stay on
> >>topic? Now, here comes the new 'sneaky' trend that
> several have recently
> >>used. You know
> >
> > There has been no objection whatsoever in
> the past about the
> > discussion of identical negative EV comments made
> on TV, radio, or in
> > magazines. We collectively write letters to the
> author or the publisher.
> > We
> > send educational Emails collectively. We discuss
> the best course of action
> > to fix the damage done and perhaps attempt to
> educate the misinformed
> > author of the negative comments.
> >
> > It is important to take a breath and
> think, "What is different
> > about this specific instance?" The logical answer
> is "Nothing."
> >
> > This instance itself isn't any different.
> We should act towards
> > this instance as we have acted towards the
> previous instances. We should
> > discuss what we can do to fix the damage done. We
> should write a
> > collective
> > letter to both the author of the false statements
> as well as the network
> > and the broadcasters, just as we have always done
> in the past.
> >
> > I recall numerous and lengthy posts by
> John Wayland about a local
> > newspaper reporter that was hostile towards EVs.
> This time, however, it is
> > the identical EV bashing, but on a national
> broadcast, yet John objects to
> > comments made in this thread that mirror his own
> comments about that local
> > reporter. John needs to think about why he so
> strongly objects to this
> > thread, yet originated many identical threads in
> the past.
> >
> > Comments about the false and misleading
> statements of Rush
> > Limbaugh (or anyone else) regarding EVs is
> completely within the scope of
> > this list. This is not a "political" discussion.
> It is a discussion about
> > blatant EV misinformation spread in a public
> forum. Just because the
> > statements were made by a "political" figure, does
> not automatically make
> > the discussion about those statements "political."
> > "
> > If the same comments had been made by
> Road and Track or Motor
> > Trend or your local newspaper, no one (including
> john) would be objecting
> > to the "political" nature of the thread. John
> would be adding in his two
> > cents (more like five pages) with the rest.
> >
> > Most folks on this list drive EVs and
> promote EVs to help dispel
> > the misconceptions and misunderstandings about
> EVs. We consider it our
> > civic duty. If the public is told that EVs are
> slow, useless, and driven
> > only by "kooks" that don't even like them
> themselves, we need to work
> > together to repair the damage done.
> >
> > If you are ready to quit the EV list
> because someone said
> > something negative about foolish comments made by
> Rush Limbaugh, you need
> > to seriously rethink your priorities.
> >
> >
> >
> > _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> > \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > =(___)=
> > U
> > Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
Chris,
I think this is a good idea, a list for the EV
political side that allows people to promote EV's in
this matter and keep the EVDL dedicated to technical
EV questions that we all learn from.
So, bring it on Chris
Thanks,
Rod
Christopher Robison wrote:
> I also tend to find myself on Wayland's side of the
> argument, a list
> should stick to its intended topic so members aren't
> flooded with email
> they never "asked" to receive by subscribing.
> > On the other hand, I also feel that while some are
> interested in EVs
> because it's novel or unique, or presents an
> compelling engineering
> challenge or cool geek factor, a lot of us also do
> this [perhaps
> primarily] because it fits with strongly held
> beliefs about the world, the
> environment and our role in it. I think there's a
> lot of commonality in
> these views (though clearly it's not universal) and
> therefore I think a
> lot of people post inappropriate material on this
> list under the
> assumption that most listmembers would agree with
> them.
> > I also think that in the appropriate setting, these
> conversations might
> not be entirely fruitless. Instead of proscribing
> outright a behavior
> which seems a strong temptation for many of us,
> perhaps what's called for
> here is a separate discussion list, focusing on the
> political and social
> issues of EVs and EV advocacy? Anything from PR
> action plans to
> philosophical discussions to pundit-bashing, where
> folks are free to rant
> and be ranted at...
> > If there's enough interest in this sort of thing,
> I'd be happy to lend a
> server to the task as long as bandwidth remains
> tolerable.
> > Opinions?
> > --Christopher Robison
> AustinEV
Ken Trough has the V is for Voltage forums-
http://www.visforvoltage.com/forums/
Check out the "EV Politics" section...
Folks on the left and right could go there and just bash each other to death
:^D
It could be just like "EV Crossfire" :^D (apologies to Jon Stewart)
Then we could get back to discussing EVs on this list.
-------------
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
