--- Begin Message ---
Hi Felix,
I understand now. For our snowy winters, I drive a '96 Ford Ranger XLT
4x4 Supercab that weighs about 4,600 pounds, so I see where you're
coming from.
GAWR is "Gross Axle Weight Rating." If you check the tag on your door
jamb, you'll see how much each axle is rated to carry. The GVWR is the
total weight rating of the truck, irrespective of each axle's GAWR. Unlike
GAWR, GVWR must take into account your brakes, engine output, cooling
system, etc., so it's typically lower than the combined axle ratings. (In
fact, if your owner's manual is like mine, it will list different GVWR,
depending on whether the truck is 2WD or 4WD, automatic or manual,
and the rear axle ratio supplied.)
If you're looking at keeping your truck's stock carrying capabilities, you'll
be somewhat hard pressed due to the increased weight from the batteries.
In addition, if you're running a DC setup, you'll have no regen braking, so
you'll need to increase your braking capabilities to compensate. Other
than that, as long as you don't exceed your GAWR, you'll probably be okay
as far as carrying capacity. (If you're hauling something heavy, you can
always go the trailer route, too.)
Tim
------
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:35:55 -0600
> From: Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> > I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4 weighs 3 tons. Even my
> > F-250
> > weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460 and beefy tranny.
>
> I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8 Toyota Tundra. I
> wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the vehicle so I looked
> in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me what the
> importance is of the difference between the two measurements GAWR and
> GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no load or the
> vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any concern for vehicle
> weight before). I believe the ratings are the maximum acceptable
> vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely clear to me.
>
> The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota Tundra w/access cab
> V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does seem rather high
> to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the vehicle then using
> Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize truck can handle
> around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck around that
> average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV conversion to perform,
> even out perform, the stock.
>
> I decided to do some more research . . . .
>
> I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota website. Now I
> know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR, but GAWR is not
> clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
>
> When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I really know what
> the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the same weight
> capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle the stock maximum
> weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of bricks around at
> 80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to converting a fullsized
> truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a fullsize truck. But
> until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change my mind later and
> scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to all of myself.
>
> I looked at the Landrover conversion, very impressed. Now I know that
> an EV is capable of handling any weather condition, even fording.
> What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all the components to
> ensure they can handle these conditions. I am mostly concerned about
> fording, how well does an electric motor preform submerged? What
> about battery compartments flooded with water? Which electric
> components can handle being wet and which can not?
>
> As I continure with this discussion group and my readins I am learning
> exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL facinates me, and it is so
> simple, just people typing emails and sending links to different
> sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am learning more I am
> gaining more confidence in approaching people with conversations about
> EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the Landrover
> conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked me what magazine I
> had been reading. He seemed to think I had been looking at a 4x4
> magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I started to explain to
> him some of the sources that I am aquiring information from. When I
> informed him that most of the sources I know of are only avaliable via
> the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an older fella and not
> very internet savy, but he is every interested and wants to know a lot
> more. I explained to him that an electric motor far more efficient
> than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in EVen more. Is there
> an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take to work and share
> with my coworkers?
>
> Felix
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.11 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:00:51 -0600
> From: Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: How to take action, EM, EV truck? (was: RE: save the EV Rangers)
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Yes, very well.
> Let me start.
>
> Where I work we all drive either forklifts, powered pallet jacks, or
> the Cushman Minute Miser. The warehouse is enormous, and there are
> very many people working there. The other day I was conversing with
> one of the maintenance men who keep the machines running and the
> batteries charged. They are very smart and know a lot about electric
> drive systems, batteries, hydraulics, etc. I had never realized I was
> amongst such experienced gurus.
>
> Some people have typed in their posts that it is impossible for them
> to talk with coworkers at work about EV, but for me, no one has yet
> turned away when I say electric car. I am immediately asked, "What
> about an electric truck (mostly everyone drives either a small pickup,
> a full sized truck, or an enormous 4X4), can they go as fast and far
> as one of those cars?" This is probably because everyone I work with
> have already witness the versatility and abilities of EV.
>
> What can I say to people I work with to get them more interested in EV?
>
> Felix
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.12 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:33:28 -0600
> From: Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Politics and EV can not be separated, no matter how hard anyone tries.
> Sort of like a magnet, one end is always the opposite of the other no
> matter what, it is just that way. Living in the US, there is no way
> to separate politics from anything, not even the simple act of putting
> on a shirt.
>
> It is important for one to express his or her idealism, understanding
> of perception, and internalization when ever those courses may arise.
> This helps us remain in control of our personality. It is also
> equally important to digest the results and responses to our
> expressions, this is instructional and helps us learn. As a result me
> may value each other more, or we may value each other less. Either
> way it is a progression, sort of like an electric motor. It won't
> turn if there is no conflict and disturbance between the magnet
> forces, or if the current doesn't change the fields in the motor.
>
> Personally politics is important to me, very important. I have lost
> long time friends because of conflicts of political ideas. Often
> times I miss them, but some people change rapidly and some slowly. If
> members of the EVDL are more comfortable without the discussion of
> politics it is understandable. Yet there is still no way to escape
> the politics of our endeavors.
>
> Felix
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.13 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:03:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Fork lift parts for EV conversions, was EV truck? save the EV
> Rangers)
> To: [email protected]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi Felix and All,
> --- Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Yes, very well.
> > Let me start.
> >
> > Where I work we all drive either forklifts, powered
> > pallet jacks, or
> > the Cushman Minute Miser. The warehouse is
> > enormous, and there are
> > very many people working there. The other day I was
> > conversing with
> > one of the maintenance men who keep the machines
> > running and the
> > batteries charged. They are very smart and know a
> > lot about electric
> > drive systems, batteries, hydraulics, etc. I had
> > never realized I was
> > amongst such experienced gurus.
> >
> > Some people have typed in their posts that it is
> > impossible for them
> > to talk with coworkers at work about EV, but for me,
>
> Some Ev'ers can be quite intense about them!!
>
> > no one has yet
> > turned away when I say electric car. I am
> > immediately asked, "What
> > about an electric truck (mostly everyone drives
> > either a small pickup,
> > a full sized truck, or an enormous 4X4), can they go
> > as fast and far
> > as one of those cars?" This is probably because
> > everyone I work with
> > have already witness the versatility and abilities
> > of EV.
>
> As you are finding out, EV's are everywhere.
> Something you might consider is using forklift
> components for your conversion.
> One's from a larger junked forklift would work
> well in a pickup like a S-10, ect. The E parts last
> almost forever so even 40yr old ones with a little
> maintaince will work well for it.
> Also rebuilding an EV motor is much easier,
> quicker than a gas one. This is a main reason Detroit
> hates EV's as they make a lot of their profit for
> after the sale parts sales, service.
> With some mods like running forklift motors at
> twice the voltage, using 2 forklift chargers, ect we
> can teach you, you can convert a S-10, ect for under
> $5,000, much less if you are a good scrounger, do most
> your own work.
> This can get you into EV's at a low cost while
> you learn what you really need. And people you already
> know can help you, i.e., the forklift mechanics.
> I prefer the older S-10's, Blazers that were
> lighter to get better range because of less weight,
> smaller frontal area both lowering drag, thus costs
> and increasing range, top speed.
> There are aero tricks to increase top speed, range
> too.
> There are many used pick-up Ev's that come up for
> sale for about the same price as it costs to convert
> one as if done right, keep their value. When gas
> prices go up as they will, their value goes up too.
> Used Ev's have increased it seems about 30% in the
> last 2 yrs while the prices of other used vehicles
> have dropped.
> LandCruiser's get good money so consider selling
> it and using the money to buy a dead S-10, ect and
> convert it. If you want higher speeds the Landcruiser
> isn't a good one as it has the aero of a brick!! Or
> keep it as a back-up.
> >
> > What can I say to people I work with to get them
> > more interested in EV?
>
> Tell them about lower fuel costs as most EV's get
> much better fuel costs than gas, diesel versions, even
> including batt costs if done right. This saving will
> grow over the yrs.
> Instant starting even in the coldest weather,
> pre-heating the cab, instant heat without warm-up,
> cool factor, ease of owner repair, fueling at home
> saving time, cash, secure fuel source if Saudia
> Arabia, Iran, ect goes down as they will, amoung other
> reasons.
> For fording, you can put the batts in the bed and
> use a sealed motor if that's important to you.
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
> >
> > Felix
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.14 message/rfc822
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:35:15 EST
> Subject: RE:CE news
> To: [email protected]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> The ce had a great nite.The new zilla allows me to do a different type of
> burnout now. I used the valet mode last nite with 2000 amps and way less than
> 100
> volts to do the burnout.The amps keep the tires spinning but they do not grow
> like the old zilla setup,so I now have a completly preped surface.I forgot to
> set the normal mode in the 3rd run last nite,the car had a great 1.4something
> 60ft.(even with the brush mechenism fully advanced.I leave it advanced for
> bracket racing)but by the time was 3 -400ft out she fell on her face,until I
> reached for the normal mode button.With 2 11.94 runs with .015 reaction times
> I
> put her in the trailer.A quick wipe down and its off to the 1st points race
> on
> Sunday. Dennis Kilawatt Berube
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.15 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:08:02 -0800 (PST)
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
> To: [email protected]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I am not sure if there are any "magazines" like HOT
> ROD or ROAD & TRACK but if you join the EAA on the web
> at www.eaaev.org or via mail:
>
> EAA Membership
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
>
> they will sent your their publication called CURRENT
> EVENTS which will give you some general information
> about what is happening in the EV world
>
> good luck
> keep learning
> keith EVansickle
> --- Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4
> > weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
> > > weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460
> > and beefy tranny.
> >
> > I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8
> > Toyota Tundra. I
> > wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the
> > vehicle so I looked
> > in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me
> > what the
> > importance is of the difference between the two
> > measurements GAWR and
> > GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no
> > load or the
> > vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any
> > concern for vehicle
> > weight before). I believe the ratings are the
> > maximum acceptable
> > vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely
> > clear to me.
> >
> > The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota
> > Tundra w/access cab
> > V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does
> > seem rather high
> > to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the
> > vehicle then using
> > Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize
> > truck can handle
> > around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck
> > around that
> > average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV
> > conversion to perform,
> > even out perform, the stock.
> >
> > I decided to do some more research . . . .
> >
> > I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota
> > website. Now I
> > know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR,
> > but GAWR is not
> > clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
> >
> > When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I
> > really know what
> > the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the
> > same weight
> > capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle
> > the stock maximum
> > weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of
> > bricks around at
> > 80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to
> > converting a fullsized
> > truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a
> > fullsize truck. But
> > until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change
> > my mind later and
> > scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to
> > all of myself.
> >
> > I looked at the Landrover conversion, very
> > impressed. Now I know that
> > an EV is capable of handling any weather condition,
> > even fording.
> > What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all
> > the components to
> > ensure they can handle these conditions. I am
> > mostly concerned about
> > fording, how well does an electric motor preform
> > submerged? What
> > about battery compartments flooded with water?
> > Which electric
> > components can handle being wet and which can not?
> >
> > As I continure with this discussion group and my
> > readins I am learning
> > exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL
> > facinates me, and it is so
> > simple, just people typing emails and sending links
> > to different
> > sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am
> > learning more I am
> > gaining more confidence in approaching people with
> > conversations about
> > EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the
> > Landrover
> > conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked
> > me what magazine I
> > had been reading. He seemed to think I had been
> > looking at a 4x4
> > magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I
> > started to explain to
> > him some of the sources that I am aquiring
> > information from. When I
> > informed him that most of the sources I know of are
> > only avaliable via
> > the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an
> > older fella and not
> > very internet savy, but he is every interested and
> > wants to know a lot
> > more. I explained to him that an electric motor far
> > more efficient
> > than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in
> > EVen more. Is there
> > an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take
> > to work and share
> > with my coworkers?
> >
> > Felix
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.16 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:21:30 -0800 (PST)
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Longer range thought.
> To: [email protected]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I accually considered this but it would take three EVs
> and there are no pubilc charging stations along the
> way so I would have to arrange charging commercially
> and the resistance to letting me plug in was to great
> so I bought an INSIGHT--not as good as an all electric
> but will make my 100 mi commute
>
>
> --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I often thought of setting up 2 EV's to solve long
> > day problems.If your house
> > is in the middle of the day, like mine:
> > home->work->home->(errands or
> > school)->home, you can just switch cars mid-day
> >
> > But what about if you had to commute 60 miles each
> > way and time was the
> > limit on chargeing at the destination or you had to
> > charge a distance
> > from work, like at a garage or a fellow EV'ers.
> > Why not have 2 EV's leave one at or near destination
> > and just drive the
> > few miles to pick it up after work and swap.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 -
> > Release Date: 1/12/2005
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.17 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> From: "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Longer range thought.
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:29:36 -0500
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> > I often thought of setting up 2 EV's to solve long day problems.If your
> house
> > is in the middle of the day, like mine: home->work->home->(errands or
> > school)->home, you can just switch cars mid-day
> >
> Looking for a reason to get that second ev :-) that sounds like a good one.
> On Tusday's I do a lot of driving somdays over 100 miles , lawn work in
> the moring 25 miles , My Okeechobee run at noon ,which is 60 (30 miles each
> way then) , then a 8.30 music pratice another 25 miles . Yes I charge
> everwhere, with my PFC buck 20 , could I use a 50 oh ya :-) I have 2 ev's
> but need to do some odds and ends on the one and have found I can do
> everthing with one , . Most of the time I don't pull more that 75 ah out of
> my 25 6v golf cart bats .
>
>
> > But what about if you had to commute 60 miles each way and time was the
> > limit on chargeing at the destination or you had to charge a distance
> > from work, like at a garage or a fellow EV'ers.
> > Why not have 2 EV's leave one at or near destination and just drive the
> > few miles to pick it up after work and swap.
> >
>
> really hard to justify that 2nd " You already have one what do ya,,,,," am
> I reading between the lines.
>
> It's to bad that we are not allowed to drive 40 on a road posted at 55 or 60
> , an ev that could go 30 miles at 60 mph would probable do the 60 mile run
> at 40 mph , yes it would take another hour ,so if you are willing to pay
> your self $10 to drive your EV That extra 20 mph or ev would have to cost
> you less than $2500 per year ( 250 days x your 1 hour pay) .
>
> But as we don't have this freedom , we have to push thing to the limit .
> I've often though while towing my trailer , if it was a trailer full of
> batteries how things would be , and I'm sorry to say , not that good , as
> the weight of the trail and batteries adds to your total weight , I'm about
> 1/3 batteries , with a trailer loaded down with another 25 golf carts I'd be
> 1/2 which would be better but would it be worth it , . So the 2 ev's looks
> like a better solution , with driving them 1/2 way ect .
> another reason for that 2nd is so you can sell it , :-) and spreed the ev
> word . At one point I had to choose between 2 ev's or one ev and one gas .
> I've been very happy with my 2 evs.
>
> along the lines of getting better range , I've notice how much better my ev
> dose after a few miles of driveling , some of this is the tranny/ rear oil
> getting warmed up , what about rapping them to keep the heat in . I've used
> the "great stuff" foam that they sell at the building supply store for
> insulation , could enclose the tranny in it , fill up the tunnel with it .
>
> Steve Clunn www.grassrootsev.com
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.11 - Release Date: 1/12/2005
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.18 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 07:49:59 -0800 (PST)
> From: Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
> To: [email protected]
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-51958925-1105804199=:42276"
>
>
> Electrifying Times (www.electrifyingtimes.com) puts out a newspaper about the
> thickness of the
> Gocery Store Globe. Not sure of frequency. I uses the online links.
>
>
> keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I am not sure if there are any
> "magazines"
> like HOT
> ROD or ROAD & TRACK but if you join the EAA on the web
> at www.eaaev.org or via mail:
>
> EAA Membership
> 4189 Baker Ave.
> Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
>
> they will sent your their publication called CURRENT
> EVENTS which will give you some general information
> about what is happening in the EV world
>
> good luck
> keep learning
> keith EVansickle
> --- Felix Gardner wrote:
>
> > > I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4
> > weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
> > > weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460
> > and beefy tranny.
> >
> > I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8
> > Toyota Tundra. I
> > wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the
> > vehicle so I looked
> > in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me
> > what the
> > importance is of the difference between the two
> > measurements GAWR and
> > GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no
> > load or the
> > vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any
> > concern for vehicle
> > weight before). I believe the ratings are the
> > maximum acceptable
> > vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely
> > clear to me.
> >
> > The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota
> > Tundra w/access cab
> > V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does
> > seem rather high
> > to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the
> > vehicle then using
> > Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize
> > truck can handle
> > around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck
> > around that
> > average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV
> > conversion to perform,
> > even out perform, the stock.
> >
> > I decided to do some more research . . . .
> >
> > I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota
> > website. Now I
> > know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR,
> > but GAWR is not
> > clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
> >
> > When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I
> > really know what
> > the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the
> > same weight
> > capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle
> > the stock maximum
> > weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of
> > bricks around at
> > 80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to
> > converting a fullsized
> > truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a
> > fullsize truck. But
> > until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change
> > my mind later and
> > scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to
> > all of myself.
> >
> > I looked at the Landrover conversion, very
> > impressed. Now I know that
> > an EV is capable of handling any weather condition,
> > even fording.
> > What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all
> > the components to
> > ensure they can handle these conditions. I am
> > mostly concerned about
> > fording, how well does an electric motor preform
> > submerged? What
> > about battery compartments flooded with water?
> > Which electric
> > components can handle being wet and which can not?
> >
> > As I continure with this discussion group and my
> > readins I am learning
> > exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL
> > facinates me, and it is so
> > simple, just people typing emails and sending links
> > to different
> > sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am
> > learning more I am
> > gaining more confidence in approaching people with
> > conversations about
> > EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the
> > Landrover
> > conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked
> > me what magazine I
> > had been reading. He seemed to think I had been
> > looking at a 4x4
> > magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I
> > started to explain to
> > him some of the sources that I am aquiring
> > information from. When I
> > informed him that most of the sources I know of are
> > only avaliable via
> > the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an
> > older fella and not
> > very internet savy, but he is every interested and
> > wants to know a lot
> > more. I explained to him that an electric motor far
> > more efficient
> > than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in
> > EVen more. Is there
> > an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take
> > to work and share
> > with my coworkers?
> >
> > Felix
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
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>
>
> e is also electri
>
> ---------------------------------
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> ATTACHMENT part 2.19 message/rfc822
> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619)
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> From: Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:59:29 -0500
> To: [email protected]
>
> Hi John,
>
> Once again, I ask you to please stay on the list. I enjoy reading your
> posts and particularly like the tales from the drag strip. I know I'm
> not the only one in that boat.
>
> Seth
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2005, at 3:24 PM, John Wayland wrote:
>
> > Hello to All,
> >
> > I'm just about ready to call this list quits, and sign off for good.
> > How many times have I
> > and others begged our co-listers to keep their political views to
> > themselves, and stay on
> > topic? Now, here comes the new 'sneaky' trend that several have
> > recently used. You know
> > who you are, and you know the drill.....you come on, blather on
> > bashing this person, then
> > this one, touting your political beliefs, then, you say...'Oh, sorry,
> > I better not discuss
> > politics', or 'Please take any further discussion of this topic
> > off-list'....as if saying
> > that after you've had your say, makes it all 'OK'. It doesn't! The
> > list charter is
> > clear... NO POLITICS.
> >
> > Intentionally violating the list charter and the wishes of others by
> > being political and
> > taking your shots, then hiding behind a closing comment that you
> > 'think' makes it all OK,
> > doesn't cut it.
> >
> > Examples:
> >
> > John Bryan:
> >
> >> There was one called Fahrenheit 9/11 that looked awefully
> >> interesting....I then approached
> >> a very attractive woman who was standing on the curb and said
> >> "quite a movie huh?". She replied that "everyone should watch it
> >> before they vote".
> >>
> >
> > Bob Rice:
> >
> >
> >> Govt consperesy here? Of course they will go off in a
> >> tirade over the last prez #$%^&! NOBODY here voted for "W"around
> >> here in
> >> CT. Watched "Farenheit 911" again, on DVD . God HELP America. OK I'll
> >> quit
> >> ranting here. This is a EV List, not politcs.
> >>
> >>
> > Chris Tromley:
> >
> >> I'm not so sure he should
> >> leave Bush alone yet though....prove beyond any doubt that it's
> >> perfectly OK to be an
> >> evil, murderous, thieving despot, as long as you play nice and make
> >> your vast oil
> >> reserves available to the US. It *is* all about oil. Sorry, I know
> >> that's
> >> OT and political, but I'm feeling pretty pi**ed off too. Please take
> >> any
> >> further discussion of this topic off-list.
> >>
> >
> > Thankfully, David Dymaxion posted the following:
> >
> >
> >> Please, no political firestorm on the EVDL. I'd love it if any of the
> >> NEDRA greats could set Rush Limbaugh straight about EVs being slow
> >> and unloved!
> >>
> >
> > This, is how to state an opinion and make a call to action. Notice, he
> > did not bash
> > anyone, he did not rant on and on about politics, and he was still
> > able to make his point.
> > To further underscore this, note that I 'am' a fan of Rush, but since
> > I do not blindly
> > agree with all he says, and, since I feel he is way off here, I'm
> > taking David's
> > suggestion to heart and am crafting a response.
> >
> > It pains me to see people I consider close EV friends, good guys who
> > are welcome and hang
> > out here at the Wayland EV laboratory and juice bar, posting political
> > rants on the list.
> > I must tell you all, there's a lot of lip biting on this end of the
> > data stream, and
> > there's a lot I'd like to let loose with, but I resist, and I will
> > continue to do so.
> >
> > What's it going to take, to make you guys simply stop? The EV List is
> > supposed to be a
> > fun, enlightening and informative place where we can all get together
> > in our common bond
> > that is our love for EVs. It's a place where newbies can get educated,
> > a place where racers
> > share what they've learned at the track, a place where you can find
> > hard-to-get parts, a
> > place where you can ask others who may have done what you're
> > considering doing, a place where
> > brilliant engineers are happy to answer questions, and it's a place
> > where friends are
> > made. Please, don't turn it into an unfriendly place by posting stuff
> > that has no business here.
> >
> > See Ya...John Wayland
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> '72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2.20 message/rfc822
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:13:40 -0700
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 8:08 AM
> Subject: Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
>
>
> > I am not sure if there are any "magazines" like HOT
> > ROD or ROAD & TRACK but if you join the EAA on the web
> > at www.eaaev.org or via mail:
> >
> > EAA Membership
> > 4189 Baker Ave.
> > Palo Alto, CA 94306-3908
> >
> > they will sent your their publication called CURRENT
> > EVENTS which will give you some general information
> > about what is happening in the EV world
> >
> > good luck
> > keep learning
> > keith EVansickle
> > --- Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > > I'm still trying to figure out what kind of 4x4
> > > weighs 3 tons. Even my F-250
> > > > weighed only 5,200 pounds, and that's with a 460
> > > and beefy tranny.
> > >
> > > I shamefuly drive a gas snorting inefficient 4x4 V8
> > > Toyota Tundra. I
> > > wanted to know about the maximum capacity of the
> > > vehicle so I looked
> > > in the owners manuel. It is not exactly clear to me
> > > what the
> > > importance is of the difference between the two
> > > measurements GAWR and
> > > GVWR, or weather the ratings are the vehicle with no
> > > load or the
> > > vehicle with maximum load (never realy had any
> > > concern for vehicle
> > > weight before). I believe the ratings are the
> > > maximum acceptable
> > > vehicle load capacity, although it is not competely
> > > clear to me.
> > >
> > > The weight 6030 lb comes from the GVWR of a Toyota
> > > Tundra w/access cab
> > > V8 SR5 grade and a GAWR of 3760 lb. The weight does
> > > seem rather high
> > > to me, but if it is the maximum capacity of the
> > > vehicle then using
> > > Victor's logic, assuming that the average fullsize
> > > truck can handle
> > > around 6000 pounds, I want to model a fullsize truck
> > > around that
> > > average. Mirroring Victor who wants his EV
> > > conversion to perform,
> > > even out perform, the stock.
> > >
> > > I decided to do some more research . . . .
> > >
> > > I found the dimensions of the Tundra on the Toyota
> > > website. Now I
> > > know the difference between Curb weight and GVWR,
> > > but GAWR is not
> > > clear to me. The curb weight of the Tundra is 4600.
> > >
> > > When I convert the Tundra (which will not be until I
> > > really know what
> > > the hell I am doing) I want to keep as close to the
> > > same weight
> > > capacity as possible. I want to design it to handle
> > > the stock maximum
> > > weight. Of corse I don't expect be hauling loads of
> > > bricks around at
> > > 80 MPH! What I mean is, when I get around to
> > > converting a fullsized
> > > truck, I want it to be as sturdy and strong as a
> > > fullsize truck. But
> > > until then I am just asking, and maybe I'll change
> > > my mind later and
> > > scrap the whole idea, I am remaining objective to
> > > all of myself.
> > >
> > > I looked at the Landrover conversion, very
> > > impressed. Now I know that
> > > an EV is capable of handling any weather condition,
> > > even fording.
> > > What I am wondering is what needs to be done to all
> > > the components to
> > > ensure they can handle these conditions. I am
> > > mostly concerned about
> > > fording, how well does an electric motor preform
> > > submerged? What
> > > about battery compartments flooded with water?
> > > Which electric
> > > components can handle being wet and which can not?
> > >
> > > As I continure with this discussion group and my
> > > readins I am learning
> > > exponentionaly everyday about EV. The EVDL
> > > facinates me, and it is so
> > > simple, just people typing emails and sending links
> > > to different
> > > sites, awsome. I never imagined this. As I am
> > > learning more I am
> > > gaining more confidence in approaching people with
> > > conversations about
> > > EV. I started talking to a cowoker today about the
> > > Landrover
> > > conversion, he was immediatly interested and asked
> > > me what magazine I
> > > had been reading. He seemed to think I had been
> > > looking at a 4x4
> > > magazine or a science magazine of some kind. I
> > > started to explain to
> > > him some of the sources that I am aquiring
> > > information from. When I
> > > informed him that most of the sources I know of are
> > > only avaliable via
> > > the internet he was a little discouraged, he is an
> > > older fella and not
> > > very internet savy, but he is every interested and
> > > wants to know a lot
> > > more. I explained to him that an electric motor far
> > > more efficient
> > > than an ICE and he was shocked, this drew him in
> > > EVen more. Is there
> > > an EV magazine I could subcribe to that I could take
> > > to work and share
> > > with my coworkers?
> > >
> > > Felix
> > >
> You could used the following calculation to find out how much energy is
> needed. It works for my EV which at one time which weigh 8000 lbs using
> Exide Tudor 300 Amp Hour industrial battery cells, which weigh over 3000 lbs
> and are 20 inches high.
>
> It is known by experimentation that it takes:
>
> 2400 watts to propel 100 lbs of weight to 50 mph and run for 60 minutes with
> a gear ratio of one to one or 1:1.
>
> Therefore:
>
> 2400 watts = 100 lb = 50 mph = 60 min = 1:1 ratio
> 192000 = 8000 = 50 = 60 min = 1:1
> 48000 = 8000 = 50 = 60 = 4:1
>
> If 48000 watts / 300 Amp Hour = 160 volts therefore
>
> 300A @ 160V= 8000 lb = 50 mph = 60 min = 4:1 ratio
> 252A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 4:1
> 49A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 19.46:1 1st
> 69A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 13.92:1 2nd
> 172A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 5.57:1 3rd
> 210A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 4.56:1 4th
> 233A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 4.11:1 5th
> 246A @ 190V= 8000 50 60 3.90:1 6th
>
> I now don't drive that far any more on my daily routes, so I reduce the
> batteries to 240 Amp hour to 180 volts which are only 12 inches high and do
> not go below 5.57:1 gear ratio.
>
> At 6000 lbs the results are now:
>
> 36000 Watts = 6000 lbs = 50 mph = 60 min = 4:1 gear
>
> 240A @ 150V = 6000 50 60 4:1
> 200A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 4:1
> 195A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 4.11:1
> 175A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 4.56:1
> 143A @ 180V = 6000 50 60 5.57:1
>
> It seems that all the above calculations are proportional to each other,
> except in speed.
>
> If I'am going 50 mph on a clean level grade, with now wind and high pressure
> tires at 65 PSI, then it will range from 140 to 170 amps.
>
> If at 25 mph it does not drop to one half of 143 amps or about 72 amps, it
> is now at 40 to 50 amps. So a reduction factor of up to 0.60 can be apply to
> the 72 amps to get 40 to 50 amps.
>
> The Horse Power required can be calculated by:
>
> If it takes 143 amps at 180 volts to push a weight to 50 mph using a gear
> ratio of 5.57:1 then:
>
> 143A x 180V = 25740 watts
>
> 25740 w / 746 = 34.5 HP
>
> My motor is 32 HP at 6000 RPM @ 165V - 175A.
>
> You can adjust your gear ratio, battery voltage and battery amp hour to give
> the results you will need.
>
> Roland
>
> 27000 watts / 746 =
>
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
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