EV Digest 4031
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Politics vs. advocacy (was: Re: Backdoor Politics)
by "Klemkosky, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Power steering
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power steering
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Backdoor Politics...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Power steering
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) conversion body modifications
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Call for a separate list? Re: Backdoor Politics
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Backdoor Politics...
by "Klemkosky, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Fork lift parts for EV conversions, was EV truck? save the EV Rangers)
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Transmissions
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Drunk on hydrogen.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) to buy or to build...ebike dreams.
by "a.k. howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fork lift parts for EV conversions,
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: to buy or to build...ebike dreams.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Backdoor Politics...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
by Martin Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Call for a separate list? Re: Backdoor Politics
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Tricky: Charger sizing for 24V 300Ah Concorde's
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Power steering
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Transmissions
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) INDUSTRIAL REMOTE CONTROL SYS
by "SCOTT O'QUINN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Building big EVs, was Re: EV Pusher Trailers?
by Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Transmissions
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Tricky: Charger sizing for 24V 300Ah Concorde's
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: to buy or to build...ebike dreams.
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yawn. Again, what does this have to do about
buidling EV's???? This is wasted bandwidth. Until the
gov't attempts to "ban" EV's I don't think these types
of topics are relevant.
--Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat Jan 15 19:25:12 2005
Subject: Politics vs. advocacy (was: Re: Backdoor Politics)
The thing is, the movement against EV's is happening on a bipartisan
basis--from Republican presidents to Democratic California governors
and CARB members, to senators and representatives on both side of
the aisle. Some have malicious intent, some are just paid off by
automakers and energy companies, and the rest believe the hype and
blindly follow whatever they read in the paper and see on TV.
The real problem here is automakers and oil companies. They are doing
whatever it takes to secure their current business plans of high-margin
oil and high-margin SUV's and large cars.
I'm all for EV advocacy on this list, including write-in campaigns to 'right
the wrongs' perpetrated by biased or ignorant journalists and pundits. If
we don't advocate for EV's, they will be taken away--first by removing
existing charging infrastructure, then by outlawing NEV's, and finally by
outlawing conversions. It can happen very quickly, and it's up to the
people on this list to be vigilant of these attacks.
I'm all for eliminating political attacks on this list, but if advocacy is moved
to another list, then I fear that we'll be undermined without even knowing
about it. EV'ing won't be any fun if it gets limited to racetracks by
lawmakers.
Tim
-------
> Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:23:04 -0700
> To: [email protected]
> From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Backdoor Politics...come on guys, knock it off!
>
> There has been no objection whatsoever in the past about the
> discussion of identical negative EV comments made on TV, radio, or in
> magazines. We collectively write letters to the author or the publisher. We
> send educational Emails collectively. We discuss the best course of action
> to fix the damage done and perhaps attempt to educate the misinformed
> author of the negative comments.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A wet cell battery at discharge, the electrolyte will lower. If it is just
above the plates at discharge, do not add any water at this time.
At full charge, then note what the level is. Lets say its about 1/2 inch
from the fill mark. Then at the next discharge, add about 1/2 inch of water.
The water will mix better while charging. If you add it at end of charge,
the top portion of the electrolyte will be more water or lower specific
gravity than the bottom of battery cell.
If you test the specific gravity at this time, it will show weaker, because
you are only pulling a sample of the top of the fluid which will be weaker
and not mix thru out.
Just go ahead and charge it to the specific gravity or to the 100 percent
charge level. If the electrolyte starts to come to high, then just remove
some as you are charging.
Caution: make sure you turn off the charger every time you start to remove
the excess electrolyte, It could shock you if you are touching a grounded or
earth ground.
My large 300 amp hour Tudor Cells would discharge where the electrolyte
would be just 1/4 inch above the plates, and when charging would rise to the
full level, a difference of about 2 inches! I find out what my maximum
discharge voltage would be at 1/4 inch above the plates, and stop
discharging at that time.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:24 PM
Subject: Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
> I have a small pack of bb600 cells that I attempted to charge for the
> first
> time today.
>
> When I received them they appeared to be semi-dry. I added water to 1/4
> inch above the bottom of the fill tube. When I charged them the water
> level
> rose dramatically. I was concern that they might overflow. Should I not
> have added the water?
>
> For charging I put them in series and applied a constant 10 amp charge.
>
> One cell rose to 1.70 volts by 15 amp hours. The other cells were settled
> in around 1.4 volts. I figured the high cell was bad and removed it from
> the group then resumed charging at 10 amps. Any hope for the 1.7-volt
> cell
> or is it just bad?
>
> I had recalled reading that the cells should be charged to 1.65 volts. At
> 45ah the voltage had only risen to 1.45 to 1.46 volts per cell. 45ah
> seamed
> like a lot for 30ah cells, and a coupled of the cells had began venting.
> I
> stopped charging at this point. Are the cells fully charged or should I
> continue charging? What is the best way to determine when they are full?
>
> There is not much info on the web on these guys. Does anyone have a
> charging profile for these cells that I could use?
>
> Thanks
> Jerald Dodson
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You certainly shouldn't have watered them.
There are manuals for this, but if you are commissioning them, then
a) the current was too high
b) they need 50-70Ah, IIRC
c) commissioning voltage is very high, but your current was too high,
also.
Try to find a manual, but I think I did 5-6A and peaked at ~1.65V.
After more than 60Ah in a 30Ah cell.
I don't know what the weakened electrolyte will do, if it wasn't
distilled water, then you may as well recycle them now. If it was, then
maybe Jerry dycus has a suggestion.
Seth
On Jan 15, 2005, at 8:24 PM, Dodson wrote:
I have a small pack of bb600 cells that I attempted to charge for the
first
time today.
When I received them they appeared to be semi-dry. I added water to
1/4
inch above the bottom of the fill tube. When I charged them the water
level
rose dramatically. I was concern that they might overflow. Should I
not
have added the water?
For charging I put them in series and applied a constant 10 amp charge.
One cell rose to 1.70 volts by 15 amp hours. The other cells were
settled
in around 1.4 volts. I figured the high cell was bad and removed it
from
the group then resumed charging at 10 amps. Any hope for the 1.7-volt
cell
or is it just bad?
I had recalled reading that the cells should be charged to 1.65 volts.
At
45ah the voltage had only risen to 1.45 to 1.46 volts per cell. 45ah
seamed
like a lot for 30ah cells, and a coupled of the cells had began
venting. I
stopped charging at this point. Are the cells fully charged or should
I
continue charging? What is the best way to determine when they are
full?
There is not much info on the web on these guys. Does anyone have a
charging profile for these cells that I could use?
Thanks
Jerald Dodson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVDL,
What are some different types of power steering options available, and
what have you used that worked well?
Felix
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>What are some different types of power steering options
>available
It seems to me that a conversion to either a manual rack or
manual gear box would be ideal. With narrow front tires and
a manual rack, it feels just like power steering. I have
manual steering on my fuel car and I wouldn't have it any
other way. Can't wait till I convert it to electric..
What type of vehicle are you converting? Did they ever
release a model that had manual steering?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> In a nutshell, I agree with Wayland and respectfully
> disagree with Bill Dube. I think we need to do a soul
> search on this list because I'm thinking of dropping
> off as well. Getting 50+ emails a day would not be
> so bad if I didn't delete most of them because of off
> topic discussions or political BS.
>
>
>
> --Mark
One way to cut down on the number of posts is to insist that those that are
questions which may have been answered before first be researched on the Yahoo
or other EVDL archives. That isn't very user-friendly, and it may take quite a
while to find answers, but it can be done. Is this what you want? I know I have
found answers to my questions by this kind of research, but have also had to
post here when I *knew* things had already been covered years or even months
before.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am accustomed to both power and manual steering. Just trying to
find out different options are available and what people have used for
power steering before.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Experienced EV converters (or others with an opinion.)
In planning the conversion of my truck I have been reading Convert It
and Build your own electric vehicle. In build you own..., the author
discusses the reductions in the coefficient of drag possible by sealing
off the engine compartment.
Do many converters do this, and if so how?
John O'Connor
He with ICE parts littering the garage floor in Sacramento, California.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about keeping it close to home by seeing if sjsu
will give us an new "bev@" list "Be ev", for all the
people who want to share their non-technical ev passions.
I would go ahead and subscribe (not to steer others away).
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm.... Maybe I was not clear with my point. I am
really tired of the crying and whining about the evils
of Ford, GM, Rush Limbaugh, the evil right wing, etc,
etc. I my opinion, none of this helps anyone build their
own EV. I was under the impression that this list was
to help EV'ers build, not a rah-rah session for the
environmentalists to practice their rhetoric (which,
by the way, I do take offense to).
If people kept their post "on topic", the volume of
emails would reduce substantially...
--Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat Jan 15 21:54:05 2005
Subject: Re: Backdoor Politics...
> In a nutshell, I agree with Wayland and respectfully
> disagree with Bill Dube. I think we need to do a soul
> search on this list because I'm thinking of dropping
> off as well. Getting 50+ emails a day would not be
> so bad if I didn't delete most of them because of off
> topic discussions or political BS.
>
>
>
> --Mark
One way to cut down on the number of posts is to insist that those that are
questions which may have been answered before first be researched on the Yahoo
or other EVDL archives. That isn't very user-friendly, and it may take quite a
while to find answers, but it can be done. Is this what you want? I know I have
found answers to my questions by this kind of research, but have also had to
post here when I *knew* things had already been covered years or even months
before.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 06:03:41 -0800 (PST), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With some mods like running forklift motors at
> twice the voltage, using 2 forklift chargers, ect we
> can teach you, you can convert a S-10, ect for under
> $5,000, much less if you are a good scrounger, do most
> your own work.
> This can get you into EV's at a low cost while
> you learn what you really need.
Ok, that is it, that will be my first project. How about the Ford
Ranger, would you consider it suitable, and if so what year should I
look for, or should I go with the S-10? $5,000 before batteries, what
about the donor vehicle? Where do you suggest I start looking for a
forklift motor? Should I look for the oldest one I can find? Where
do I start? How about four wheel drive, I really want to experience a
4X4 EV, but should I stay away from it for my first conversion? .
I am starting to feel excited again, this is so much better than
discussing skanky politics, I hate that garbage anyway. You're right
John Wayland, this is way more appealing!
Felix
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVDL,
I have always disliked automatic transmissions, and preferred manual
over automatic. Will someone explain to me how much of a hassle it is
to use an automatic transmission with an EV, and what the pros and
cons are.
I understand that manual transmissions are the way to go with EV. Can
an EV work without a clutch, if so what are the advantages and
disadvantages? Are
EV harder on transmissions than ICE?
I would like to know about CVT. Are they efficient? Do they actually
work, if so how do they function? Can they be optimized customized
and modified? Are there any on the market, if so are they expensive,
where could I get one? What RPM HP and how much torque can they
handle?
Felix
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice little rant by a physics teacher. Uses Rav4 EV in one of his
arguments.
http://www.therant.info/archive/000519.html
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings,
The question here is to buy or to build. I am looking to use an
electric bicycle type of EV for the following.
I have a nine mile one way commute. Its mostly flat or very slight
long grades, with a 3 percent half mile upgrade at one end.
Speed is not real important, I think i will be happy with a maximum
speed of 20 mph.
Range is very important. I want to be able to do nine to ten miles
comfortably on a single charge. I am willing to carry a second
battery pack.
I don't plan to pedal my bike, I'd rather use the electric power
mode at all times.
I do want the ability to climb steep grades, say up to 8 percent
without burning things up, i am willing to accept a reduction in
speed for that.
I plan to use the bike 250 to 300 days a year, pretty much whenever
it is dry and the forecast is to be dry. Most of my one way trips
outside of work are less than ten miles in length.
If I buy, I am most interested in one of the Tidalforce bikes,
probably the IO stepthru model. I have considered an Iacocca folding
ebike as well.
If I build, Im probably looking at installing a hub motor setup on
a mountain bike with road tires.
36 volts is the lowest voltage I would use. I plan to use nimh
batteries, maybe liions in the future. I'm willing to have multiple
battery packs and chargers.
I live in a second story apartment. Hopefully with a little power I
could power the bike slowly up the stairs. That is, to walk it up the
stairs with some power to the wheels. Of course I wouldn't attempt to
ride it upstairs.
I consider my planned use for the bike to be severe service,
multiple stoplights, roads are pretty smooth, and using it day in and
day out. I have no plans to use the bike off road. I hope i can find
something that will hold up over time and give me years of trouble
free service.
I do realize that battery packs and tires will have to be replaced
every so often. I hope that the bike itself, motor, controller, etc
would not fail on me quickly. In short I am looking for something
quite durable.
This will be my first EV.
Hope this helps, and I thank you in advance for your wisdom and
your help. Regards, A.K. Howard, Las Vegas, NV. Board member Las
Vegas Electric Vehicle Association.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:23 AM 16/01/05 -0600, Felix wrote:
Ok, that is it, that will be my first project. How about the Ford
Ranger, would you consider it suitable, and if so what year should I
look for, or should I go with the S-10? $5,000 before batteries, what
about the donor vehicle? Where do you suggest I start looking for a
forklift motor? Should I look for the oldest one I can find? Where
do I start? How about four wheel drive, I really want to experience a
4X4 EV, but should I stay away from it for my first conversion? .
Hi Felix (and all)
How much is your time worth in place of paying $?
If you can put the time in, you will save heaps, meet some new and
interesting people and have a heap of fun whilst collecting bits for your
vehicle.
Vehicle: ask around your local dismantlers and car dealers. You are looking
for a vehicle that fits your basic parameters (Extended cab or whatever),
preferably with a dead/dying ICE. Unless you really want/need 4WD, then
stay with 2WD for first conversion (IMHO).
Forklift bits: Ask around your local industrial salvage dealers, forklift
repair companies, etc. A whole forklift with bad batteries will probably be
the cheapest overall. Look for one with a large single traction motor
driving a diff' or transmission, instead of any wheel motor or most
dual-motor types. (although if you can find a 72V airport truck/conveyor
truck etc you may get all you need for a first conversion, and dual
motors). If you are lucky you will be able to find a dead-battery fork that
you can buy and dismantle in the salvage yard, just taking what you need.
Look for the newest and biggest fork - it'll still be 15 to 20 years old
(most likely). You can use contactors and stuff from these vehicles as well
(with certain considerations). You may get lucky enough to find a fork that
used a transmission, that has a bell-housing adapter on the end of the
motor - then you have the fun of finding the matching transmission (my most
recent motor - a Hitachi - has a starter-motor hole cover cast into the end
of the motor). The Traction motor usually has a shaft sticking out, the
Hydraulic pump drive motor almost always has a female splined shaft so is
harder to adapt to an automotive transmission (but may have identical brush
holders and brushes, providing spares). The charger may be able to be
rewound or reconfigured to be used at a higher voltage (although it would
probably need new 'smarts').
Hope this helps you get started.
James
'78 Daihatsu 1300kg truck under conversion (with an ex-forklift motor and
contactors, plus rewound ex-forklift charger transformer)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have a nine mile one way commute. Its mostly flat or very slight
> long grades, with a 3 percent half mile upgrade at one end.
> Speed is not real important, I think i will be happy with a maximum
> speed of 20 mph.
> Range is very important. I want to be able to do nine to ten miles
> comfortably on a single charge. I am willing to carry a second
> battery pack.
> I don't plan to pedal my bike, I'd rather use the electric power
> mode at all times.
> I do want the ability to climb steep grades, say up to 8 percent
> without burning things up, i am willing to accept a reduction in
> speed for that.
> I plan to use the bike 250 to 300 days a year, pretty much whenever
> it is dry and the forecast is to be dry. Most of my one way trips
> outside of work are less than ten miles in length.
All kinds of hub motors and Currie-type bolt-ons to peruse. What is available
locally, or is there nothing around you can "see and touch"? [Buying
sight-unseen is one major drawback of the internet] Do you already have a bike
you ride and are comfortable on? I have a "Chinese Junk" scooter that can give
me 30mph for 10-12mi, but it can't handle very steep hills, being a 500 watt
model geared for 30mph! A higher-wattage version would be another alternative
to consider, though.
You know what the oldtimers of the list say: don't daydream, go out and
make it/buy it/ build it and get on the road!
PS: Isn't Gail a member of the LVEVA?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> If people kept their post "on topic", the volume of
> emails would reduce substantially...
I read everything in the hope the OT stuff has some pertanence, but it would be
nice just to see some effective reply editing. I've dropped off the list in the
past for the opposite reason: dissection and argument back and forth about
minutiae, especially unproven theories...ya wanna say "stop arguing and show me
the numbers"!
And this kind of stuff is totally on-topic!
I guess it's the arguing, not the content, that can get to *me*.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IIRC 1.45-1.47 was the charge point that Bill Mulgrew came up with for his
BB600s. When they were charged beyond this they had problems. Make sure your
vent rubbers are still in good shape, flexable and resiliant. And you dont
top off nicads of this type until they are charged. If you water them before
charging they will overflow. David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:24 PM
Subject: Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
I have a small pack of bb600 cells that I attempted to charge for the first
time today.
When I received them they appeared to be semi-dry. I added water to 1/4
inch above the bottom of the fill tube. When I charged them the water
level
rose dramatically. I was concern that they might overflow. Should I not
have added the water?
For charging I put them in series and applied a constant 10 amp charge.
One cell rose to 1.70 volts by 15 amp hours. The other cells were settled
in around 1.4 volts. I figured the high cell was bad and removed it from
the group then resumed charging at 10 amps. Any hope for the 1.7-volt
cell
or is it just bad?
I had recalled reading that the cells should be charged to 1.65 volts. At
45ah the voltage had only risen to 1.45 to 1.46 volts per cell. 45ah
seamed
like a lot for 30ah cells, and a coupled of the cells had began venting.
I
stopped charging at this point. Are the cells fully charged or should I
continue charging? What is the best way to determine when they are full?
There is not much info on the web on these guys. Does anyone have a
charging profile for these cells that I could use?
Thanks
Jerald Dodson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BillDube wrote:
"There has been no objection whatsoever in the past about the
discussion of identical negative EV comments made on TV, radio, or in
magazines. We collectively write letters to the author or the publisher."
That would be fine if true Bill, but these guys are venting in their
disappointment at loosing an election. They are going well beyond the
discussing EVs and are insulting anyone who might have voted the
"wrong way".
"It is important to take a breath and think, "What is different
about this specific instance?" The logical answer is "Nothing." "
Reread the earlier messages in the thread; you will find that they are
'gratuitous'.
As the Republicans were out of 'power' for 40 years, it is felt by
many folks that the current situation is unnatural and unfair. More
'violations' will occur as so many are raised to believe they are gods
chosen (on both sides of the ballot actually). React to bad press with
care and start planning your contributions to the party of your choice.
______________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 17:34:47 -0600 (CST), "Christopher Robison"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On the other hand, I also feel that while some are interested in EVs
>because it's novel or unique, or presents an compelling engineering
>challenge or cool geek factor, a lot of us also do this [perhaps
>primarily] because it fits with strongly held beliefs about the world, the
>environment and our role in it. I think there's a lot of commonality in
>these views (though clearly it's not universal) and therefore I think a
>lot of people post inappropriate material on this list under the
>assumption that most listmembers would agree with them.
See, you're no different than the fundie christians who think that
everyone should agree with and be forced to share (at the end of a gun
barrel if necessary) their beliefs. History is rife with
religious-inspired massacres that make Hitler look like a piker.
Your pseudo-religious environmental belief system makes you blind to the
rest of the world that does NOT share your beliefs. Indeed, we think you
to be at best, misinformed and at worst, fools. That most of us heretics
don't make a lot of noise, I think, reflects a higher level of maturity,
courtesy, respect for others and respect for the list charter.
>>I also think that in the appropriate setting, these conversations might
>not be entirely fruitless. Instead of proscribing outright a behavior
>which seems a strong temptation for many of us, perhaps what's called for
>here is a separate discussion list, focusing on the political and social
>issues of EVs and EV advocacy? Anything from PR action plans to
>philosophical discussions to pundit-bashing, where folks are free to rant
>and be ranted at...
>
>If there's enough interest in this sort of thing, I'd be happy to lend a
>server to the task as long as bandwidth remains tolerable.
I think a separate list is the perfect solution. Y'all could rant among
yourselves, "preach to the choir", as it were, and this list could get
back to what we ALL share in common, an interest in electric powered
vehicles.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What would be a suitable amperage - talking decent switch mode chargers
- for charging a bank of AGM's at 315Ah/C20 at 24V in a sailing boat?
The batteries get discharged rather too shallow than too deep generally,
and get charged a little by rotating the prop, when appropriate, and a
solar panel. Last summer I didn't have grid at the dock, boat usage was
low and the bank kept over 80% charge at all times.
I anticipate/hope that I will use more of the capacity in the future and
so may need external charging.
The sizing suggestions given by manufacturers are usually for cyclic use
as in a road EV or fork lift. Do I need to charge the batteries at 30
amps or is less better? when the bank sits for a week or two and then
gets discharged to 80-60% SOC again... highly irregular charging pattern
with solar "pushing" 1A or 7-9Ah daily, prop regeneration adding 0-4A
when the wind is good.
Should I just bite my esthetic eye and add solar panels in all
impossible places? Solar is not cheap but neither are good chargers, if
I need 30A or more current capacity from one, and only every now and then.
Do AGM's in general, or Concorde PV batteries in particular, need the
occasional hit from C3 charging current? The usage is more like off-grid
PV with the exception that solar panel capacity is pitiful right now.
Pekka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have the Toyota electric power steering pump on my 94 Prizm/Corolla.
The pump comes from an MR2. Personally I think it's the greatest thing
since sliced bread: None of my Porsches (914 and 911) have power
steering, but they have very big steering wheels. Modern cars with PS by
default have little wheels, and trying to get proper leverage is a pain
in the rear.
The only "issue" with electric PS is it takes a *lot* of power at 12
volts. Think 80-90 amps or so peak. So you want to wire the pump close
to the battery, control it with a contactor, and use heavy wire.
Otherwise it's great. Mine is pretty quiet, the coolant pump makes more
noise.
Chris
Felix Gardner wrote:
EVDL,
What are some different types of power steering options available, and
what have you used that worked well?
Felix
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--- Begin Message ---
--- Felix Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> EVDL,
>
> I have always disliked automatic transmissions, and
> preferred manual
> over automatic. Will someone explain to me how much
> of a hassle it is
> to use an automatic transmission with an EV, and
> what the pros and
> cons are.
Something about welding the torque converter up. This
isn't my area, though... Hopefully someone else hits
it..
>
> I understand that manual transmissions are the way
> to go with EV. Can
> an EV work without a clutch,
yes.
if so what are the
> advantages and
> disadvantages?
Smoother shifts, for advantages.
Are
> EV harder on transmissions than ICE?
Quite the contrary. The flywheel is trying to even
out explosions in an ICE. In an EV, there are no
explosions; nothing to "even out". So your clutch
will last longer. At the same time, electric motors
have instant torque, not torque around a specific band
of RPMs. Thus, they CAN be harder (such as if you're
throwing 1000 amps at a 9 or 11" motor in drag racing.
But for everyday use, they are much _easier_ on
trannies.
>
> I would like to know about CVT. Are they efficient?
> Do they actually
> work, if so how do they function? Can they be
> optimized customized
> and modified? Are there any on the market, if so
> are they expensive,
> where could I get one? What RPM HP and how much
> torque can they
> handle?
>
> Felix
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone on the list had any experience with remote control equipment ?
we are trying to modify a smell piece of equipment to run remotely with a
CATTRON controller but we can't come up with controller actuator setup to
control the hyd . ANY help would be appreciated .
SCOTT
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For a range extender for prolonged trips, what size generator would
would be required to power a Ford Ranger conversion? What information
do I need to know to select one?
Felix
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My first EV a 1975 Chevelle had a 350 GM automatic transmission. It only
lasted 1000 miles, before it need to be overhaul!
The problem was at that time, was there was no good stall kits for these
transmissions that they used for drag racing. It was to lock up the
transmission at startup. Still from 0 to 100 rpm the series DC motor would
violent accelerated up to this RPM until it received some load.
We try everything, install a electric pump on the auto tran fluid, did more
mods by trans shop that were experts at the time.
We self solve the problem, which was so easy. The motor has a pilot shaft
of the front or if you don't have one, one can be added by drilling and
tapping the motor shaft and screw on a extension shaft.
Connect to this motor pilot shaft, a load is applied to the motor by
connecting a alternator, a power steering, vacuum pump, air conditional,
etc. to this pilot shaft.
Install a idle stop on the accelerator control, that can be control by a
switch by user. We adjusted it for about 600 RPM idle speed. At this speed
the alternator which is also a inverter kicks in and all systems come up to
working order.
When the motor is now preload at 600 RPM and the speed stays constant, we
now can engaged the auto trans at no problem.
The motor ampere additional draw is between 4 to 6 amps. On long coast
downs, we would kick off the idle control, and now the motor ampere is at 0,
but all accessories are still going. This acts like a light compression
braking of a ICE.
Did a second mod by using a standard transmission with a idle control.
Added a circuit control to the idle control, so when I undepress the
accelerator while the EV speed is higher than what the 600 rpm can drive,
the idle control go off during coast down, to take advantage of zero power
and a somewhat REGEN feel to the car.
Still have this system in my EV today, and it works great.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Felix Gardner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 11:44 PM
Subject: Transmissions
> EVDL,
>
> I have always disliked automatic transmissions, and preferred manual
> over automatic. Will someone explain to me how much of a hassle it is
> to use an automatic transmission with an EV, and what the pros and
> cons are.
>
> I understand that manual transmissions are the way to go with EV. Can
> an EV work without a clutch, if so what are the advantages and
> disadvantages? Are
> EV harder on transmissions than ICE?
>
> I would like to know about CVT. Are they efficient? Do they actually
> work, if so how do they function? Can they be optimized customized
> and modified? Are there any on the market, if so are they expensive,
> where could I get one? What RPM HP and how much torque can they
> handle?
>
> Felix
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the battery manufacturer should have this , but in general if it
is a day sailer, and you charge thru the week and run on the weekends,
then just holding at a float voltage of 13.6-13.8V is generally good.
Often the float voltage is printed on the top, as is the cyclic
voltage. C/20 is slow for cyclic charging, an I don't have a goood
number for that charge, which would charge until overcharge, then drop
to float. I suspect something like 14.1V at a low C/20 cyclic rate, but
determining overcharge termination at C/20 is something I don't know
how to do off the top of my head.
Seth
On Jan 16, 2005, at 7:16 AM, pekka wrote:
What would be a suitable amperage - talking decent switch mode
chargers - for charging a bank of AGM's at 315Ah/C20 at 24V in a
sailing boat?
The batteries get discharged rather too shallow than too deep
generally, and get charged a little by rotating the prop, when
appropriate, and a solar panel. Last summer I didn't have grid at the
dock, boat usage was low and the bank kept over 80% charge at all
times.
I anticipate/hope that I will use more of the capacity in the future
and so may need external charging.
The sizing suggestions given by manufacturers are usually for cyclic
use as in a road EV or fork lift. Do I need to charge the batteries at
30 amps or is less better? when the bank sits for a week or two and
then gets discharged to 80-60% SOC again... highly irregular charging
pattern with solar "pushing" 1A or 7-9Ah daily, prop regeneration
adding 0-4A when the wind is good.
Should I just bite my esthetic eye and add solar panels in all
impossible places? Solar is not cheap but neither are good chargers,
if I need 30A or more current capacity from one, and only every now
and then.
Do AGM's in general, or Concorde PV batteries in particular, need the
occasional hit from C3 charging current? The usage is more like
off-grid PV with the exception that solar panel capacity is pitiful
right now.
Pekka
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Not for a commissioning charge, that is too low. I would terminate
higher, as the charge profile was basically flat with a pronounced peak
whn charging at C/5. I measured cell by cell, but I can't find my
commissioning charge notes. A google on bb600 nicad will show my
discharge test for 10 in series. It is an Excel document
Seth
On Jan 16, 2005, at 4:57 AM, David Chapman wrote:
IIRC 1.45-1.47 was the charge point that Bill Mulgrew came up with for
his BB600s. When they were charged beyond this they had problems. Make
sure your vent rubbers are still in good shape, flexable and
resiliant. And you dont top off nicads of this type until they are
charged. If you water them before charging they will overflow. David
Chapman.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dodson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 6:24 PM
Subject: Questions about charging bb600 Nicads
I have a small pack of bb600 cells that I attempted to charge for the
first
time today.
When I received them they appeared to be semi-dry. I added water to
1/4
inch above the bottom of the fill tube. When I charged them the
water level
rose dramatically. I was concern that they might overflow. Should I
not
have added the water?
For charging I put them in series and applied a constant 10 amp
charge.
One cell rose to 1.70 volts by 15 amp hours. The other cells were
settled
in around 1.4 volts. I figured the high cell was bad and removed it
from
the group then resumed charging at 10 amps. Any hope for the
1.7-volt cell
or is it just bad?
I had recalled reading that the cells should be charged to 1.65
volts. At
45ah the voltage had only risen to 1.45 to 1.46 volts per cell. 45ah
seamed
like a lot for 30ah cells, and a coupled of the cells had began
venting. I
stopped charging at this point. Are the cells fully charged or
should I
continue charging? What is the best way to determine when they are
full?
There is not much info on the web on these guys. Does anyone have a
charging profile for these cells that I could use?
Thanks
Jerald Dodson
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--- Begin Message ---
www.rabbittool.com has been around for ages, and they offer kits and
bikes. If they have been around a while that means they haven't
shortchanged people continually, like some others. Just opinion, and I
never have bought anything, but they are worth a look. NiMH packs up to
"M" cells, with automated chargers.
Seth
On Jan 16, 2005, at 2:07 AM, a.k. howard wrote:
Greetings,
The question here is to buy or to build. I am looking to use an
electric bicycle type of EV for the following.
I have a nine mile one way commute. Its mostly flat or very slight
long grades, with a 3 percent half mile upgrade at one end.
Speed is not real important, I think i will be happy with a maximum
speed of 20 mph.
Range is very important. I want to be able to do nine to ten miles
comfortably on a single charge. I am willing to carry a second
battery pack.
I don't plan to pedal my bike, I'd rather use the electric power
mode at all times.
I do want the ability to climb steep grades, say up to 8 percent
without burning things up, i am willing to accept a reduction in
speed for that.
I plan to use the bike 250 to 300 days a year, pretty much whenever
it is dry and the forecast is to be dry. Most of my one way trips
outside of work are less than ten miles in length.
If I buy, I am most interested in one of the Tidalforce bikes,
probably the IO stepthru model. I have considered an Iacocca folding
ebike as well.
If I build, Im probably looking at installing a hub motor setup on
a mountain bike with road tires.
36 volts is the lowest voltage I would use. I plan to use nimh
batteries, maybe liions in the future. I'm willing to have multiple
battery packs and chargers.
I live in a second story apartment. Hopefully with a little power I
could power the bike slowly up the stairs. That is, to walk it up the
stairs with some power to the wheels. Of course I wouldn't attempt to
ride it upstairs.
I consider my planned use for the bike to be severe service,
multiple stoplights, roads are pretty smooth, and using it day in and
day out. I have no plans to use the bike off road. I hope i can find
something that will hold up over time and give me years of trouble
free service.
I do realize that battery packs and tires will have to be replaced
every so often. I hope that the bike itself, motor, controller, etc
would not fail on me quickly. In short I am looking for something
quite durable.
This will be my first EV.
Hope this helps, and I thank you in advance for your wisdom and
your help. Regards, A.K. Howard, Las Vegas, NV. Board member Las
Vegas Electric Vehicle Association.
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