EV Digest 4064
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re Electro truck
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: ADC Motor questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zilla /palm (better serial terminal?)
by "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Magnetic blowouts for contactors
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Duct cooling an ETEK (Re: ETEK problem found.)
by "MYLES ANTHONY TWETE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: My Battery Pack Specifications
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV too quiet
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electro truck
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Duct cooling an ETEK (Re: ETEK problem found.)
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Magnetic blowouts for contactors
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Opps! Answer to decoding .TRC file
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV too quiet
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) "Bad" laptop packs
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Re Electro truck
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Electravan rust fix
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Opps! Answer to decoding .TRC file
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) serial terminal - zilla
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Metallic Power Shuts Doors
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Buss bars for Electravan
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Buss bars for Electravan
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: serial terminal - zilla
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Electro truck
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: My Battery Pack Specifications
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) AVCON DS-50
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Buss bars for Electravan
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David ,
Try the Motorcycles & Bicycles category the # is 030357 It expires on
the 1st now at $1500
Good luck, Bill
Subject:
Re: 1999 electro truck
From:
"David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:
Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:40:15 -0700
To:
<[email protected]>
Bill,
Couldn't find the auction you were referring to. I did see some
outhouses going cheap and a strange looking plasma cutter in
"Humptulips" but no electric truck anywhere in Wa. Got an item #? David
Chapman.
----- Original Message ----- From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: 1999 electro truck
Hi Folks there is a '99 72 volt electro truck on the gsa web site
http://gsaauctions.gov in Wa. closing 2/1. I wonder if it could be
improved by going to 96 or even 120 volt? Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No cooling needed... they have thier own internal fans.
blow the crap out of it. Find a 12 volt battery and jumper cables... Run
motor. listen for bad things.
Get some commutator stones from Grainger. Get the 3/8 by 3/8 white stones.
run motor stone motor until the com is prefectly clean. Let run on 12 volts
for about 10 hours.
It should draw less than 30 amps and run at over 1000 rpm on 12 volts. Do
this until the comm gets a light straw color or golden brown. Reinstall. Be
happy.
If you need to pull and inspect all 8 brushes. All should be polished and
show swept marks from leading edge to trailing edge. Replace any that are
cracked chipped or worn much more than others. All 8 should be withing .250
of the length of each other. Look for melted copper brush leads, or loose
and damaged leads.
If the slots have copper or are stuffed full of carbon, scrape it out with a
steel screw driver. Blow out dust.
Then spin it for ever.
It's pretty simple motor service...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 7:54 AM
Subject: ADC Motor questions
> I got my new (used) motor (ADC FB1-4001-A) on the bench and gave a good
looking over. It had been
> sitting in a car, in the pine forrest, for about ten years. It spun
freely, the brushes had plenty
> of life left, the commutator looked ok, all the connections looked good,
even touched it in a few
> places with a meter. It looked like it would fire right up if I applied a
little juice.
> Considering that I bought the whole car for $600, I was pretty happy. So I
did what anyone would
> do, I took it all apart. Well, I had to see what was inside one these
things!
>
> So, I have a few questions;
>
> The bearings spin freely, no roughness or noise. They look like sealed
bearings but there was some
> old semi-hardened grease on the outside. Maybe someone was trying to do
some maintenance and
> smeered some on. Are the bearings on this thing pretty durable? Since I'm
already in here should I
> replace them anyway? Not sure how much replacements are.
>
> The commutator was dark but no grooves. Should I do anything more than
clean it up a bit? Make
> sure the gaps are clean? I'm a little hesitant to do anything like file it
back down to shiny
> metal. I don't have easy access to a lathe.
>
> The case is still solid but they did install it under a couple of
batteries and time and battery
> acid corroded the outside a little. I was able to scrape of most of the
scale and rust off. There
> is no place where the pitting went more that a sixteenth to three thirty
secondths in depth. Is it
> worth it to sand blast it and paint it up?
>
> I've read enough about cooling to want to add some to this motor. I
recently retired an old Sears
> Microwave and got two nice squirrel cage blowers from it. The problem is
they run great on 110 AC.
> Is there any way to use them in the EV without supplying 110v AC? (I'll
probably be using a 120v
> DC traction pack.) The motors are pretty integral with the fans, no good
way to swap them out.
>
> When I get it back together, can I fire it up with a little low voltage? I
read a post where
> someone reccomended running in new brushes with 12 volts for a while. I
also read where a motor
> with no load can tear itself apart if too much juice is applied.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar writes:
> I'm not sure about the hour, but there are things that can be done
> with the EVDash program that Pete Ohler wrote and generously
> provides...I was never able to get it to work in my car.
> I think my E-meter is too old and the data stream was not what it
expected.
> Or maybe the OS in my Palm was too new.
I was thinking that it might be a data format issue which wouldn't allow
EVdash to work with my Palm M-105 and a Link10w/serial, but I just checked
the data w/Hyperterminal on my laptop and found that the Link10 data seems
to match what the EVdash source does expects.
More likely (and what Pete Ohler suggested to me) is that the EVdash
program was compiled with a very early version of the Palm OS. A year ago
I was told he wouldn't have the time to update it for newer OS versions but
that I was free to take a stab at it. Now that I have Code Warrior for the
Palm I'm looking at modifying/compiling EVdash to work w/PalmOSv3.5 which
my M105 uses. At least that'll be a start. When the results look good
I'll let folks know.
-Myles Twete, Portland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reading this subject on Magnetic blowouts, what if you used a magnet that
has both a negative and a positive poles on both ends, that is attach to the
side blowout covers on a contactor?
Did I say, a negative & positive end magnet, yes.
This was demonstrated to me back in the 60's by A.P. Howard, a Geo Physics
Scientist, that I work in the field, mapping out the magnetic fields of the
earth.
This would be good for a kid for Show and Tell, which He said he can make a
magnet with a neg & pos pole at both ends.
Take about 100 of those 1/4 inch diameter by 1 inch magnets that you get at
a hobby shop, and threw them in one big pile. Let them form a large round
diameter magnetic about 1 to 2 inches in diameter to about 4 to 6 inches
long.
Now, take one single 1/4 inch magnet and start to move it across the face of
the larger magnet you made. As you move across the magnet, you will find
that the smaller magnet you are holding will attract on one single magnet in
the group and than repelled on any one single magnet that surrounds that
center magnet.
You will find that each adjacent magnet in the group will be the opposite
polarity than the next one.
If you take one single roll of these magnets and glue them to the side of
the blow out covers, what will be the effects?
My large open type 600 amp CableForm contactors have four small square flat
type magnets with a hole in it, glue to both sides of the blow out covers.
The same end of a bar magnet attracts these magnets on both sides.
So when reading the Email, I thought, what was the polarity of the magnets?
If you take a compass to find out what the polarity is, is the compass
needle pointing north really negative attracting a positive north pole, or
is it a positive attracting a negative north pole.
This is what A.P Howard ask me to determined.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Magnetic blowouts for contactors
> At 10:13 PM +1100 1-29-05, James Massey wrote:
> >Hi all
> >
> >Some time ago there was discussion on magnetic blowouts used on
> >contactors, and specifically adding them to contactors without them
> >to increase their capacity.
> >
> >I have searched and I can't find any posts that actually stated the
> >polarity of magnets relative to the arc paths.
> >
> >A Dogpile search under Lenz's law turned up a lot of statements of
> >Lenz's law that didn't help one bit (and quite a few Lenz, lawyers),
> >but in a link from a listed page I found:
> >http://www.cyberclassrooms.net/~pschweiger/magnetism.html with a lot
> >of bits of information including a diagram of "right hand rule" of
> >magnetic force (Extend the right hand so that the fingers point in
> >the direction of the magnetic field and the thumb points in the
> >direction of the current. The palm of the hand then pushes in the
> >direction of the magnetic force).
> >
> >If I interpret this correctly, I can install magnets into my
> >contactors in the following manner:
> >
> >Conventional current flow "out of the 'page'" in the upper contact,
> >"into the 'page'" in the lower contact, to push the arcs away from
> >center. The contacts are a normal moving-bar contactor.
> > ___
> >[S-N] (out) [S-N]
> > | |
> > | o |
> > | |
> >[N-S] ( in) [N-S]
> > ---
>
> As I understand it, this will blow one arc outward and one arc inward
> (essentially both in the same direction) either up or down, I don't
> know which.
> ___
> [S-N] (out) [S-N]
> | |
> | o |
> | |
> [S-N] ( in) [S-N] Warning! I may have out and in reversed!
> ---
> This is how the Albright magnets are set up. I'm not clear about
> which one is + and which is - (in/out) since I don't have anything
> handy to tell me north and south of the magnets. I've looked all over
> for that darn compass!
>
> Here is my email with the discussion from the last time it came up.
>
> At 6:34 PM -0700 9-17-04, Otmar wrote:
> >To: [email protected]
> >From: Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Contactor polarity
> >Cc:
> >Bcc:
> >X-Attachments:
> >
> >At 5:58 PM -0700 9-17-04, Lee Hart wrote:
> >> >>> I have Curtis/Albright SW80 contactors. Where
> >>>>> does the + go? To the + battery or the + motor?
> >>
> >>Lee Hart wrote:
> >>>> The polarity only matters if the contactor has magnetic blowouts,
> >>>> and even then, only if the design is assymetric (contacts are
> >>>> not round, and have more space on one side than the other).
> >>>>
> >>>> Albright contacts are symmetrical; therefore, it doesn't matter
> >>>> which way you wire the polarity.
> >>
> >>Otmar replied:
> >>> I think I'd disagree.
> >>>
> >>> As I see it, wire it one way and the arc is blown out into open air,
> >>> That's a good thing. Wire it backwards and the arc is pushed in
> >>> towards the center of the contactor, towards the shaft and hardware
> >>> which could carry current and result in a meltdown.
> >>>
> >>> What am I missing here?
> >>
> >>Hmm... now you have me wondering, too. I have an Albright SW80 here.
> >>It's contacts are round, and the case is perfectly symmetrical. It
> >>shouldn't make any difference if the arc blows out the left or right
> >>side.
> >
> >Aha! This is where we differ.
> >As I understand it, it's not left or right, but out or in.
> >
> >During a normal inductive break, I see the arcs (and the traces on
> >the contacts) starting at the center of the contact and blowing
> >outward, out the side opening that you can see the contacts through.
> >It does this on both sides. Therefore the magnets must be reversed
> >on one side.
> >
> >OK, I just checked. I happen to have a SW200 on my heater.
> >One flat side of the contactor (spanning both contacts) has north
> >towards the contacts, and the other has south. Since power on one
> >contact goes up and the other side goes down, this makes sense that
> >the arcs will always blow outward if properly connected.
> >
> >Picture and movie of arc here:
> >http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/SW200/
> >
> >The movie
> >http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/SW200/SW200Arc.MOV
> >is a bit too slow to really see the arc move, but in real life it's
> >possible to see it.
> >
> >In the picture,
> >http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/SW200/SW200ArcMark.JPG
> >you can clearly see the lines that the arc leaves on the contact as
> >it progresses outward. Also, you can see the burn on the edge of the
> >contact where the arc burns out. Just where you want it. :-)
> >
> >This contactor is hooked up with the + terminal on battery positive.
>
> btw, this was at about 6 amps at 240V.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
> http://www.CafeElectric.com
> Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough writes:
> ...it WOULD be worth installing a squirrel cage fan as Roderick suggested.
> A tiny bit of forced air cooling goes a whole heck of a long way toward
> keeping a motor cool.
I strongly agree.
But all you need is a good muffin fan.
My ETEK running w/36v system under an outboard motor cowling would begin
getting hot to the touch at 60-80amps even with air being forced out of the
cowling. Even mounting a muffin fan axially directly above the brush
housing and blowing through the housing and armature slots wouldn't keep it
cool. Then it dawned on me that I had 2 problems:
1) the blown air won't much go through the slots unless forced.
2) the heated air was mixing with the cooling air, raising the average temp
over time.
Solution:
First, I tried a quick and dirty forced air solution by creating a "duct
tape" shroud between the ETEK and the 7inch, 48v muffin PABST fan. VOILA!
Air was rushing out the slots and was warming nicely while the case kept
cool. Full speed and a steady 150amps and the case only gets warm. I
later built an aluminum shroud and sealed all the gaps with aluminum tape.
Next, I built an exhaust plenum which mated with the top of the fan.
Finally, I reversed the direction of the fan so it sucks----sure, the fan
hates the higher temps, but now the air pulls up through the motor the cool
bottom air in the outboard motor cowling, sends it through the heater
(motor), the fan, the exhaust chamber upper part of the motor cowling ,then
out without mixing.
Here'tis: http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/492.html
-Myles Twete
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Now if you meant $1.75/wh, I know of a battery that can get pretty close.
Actually, I screwed up the cost completely. $0.65 per wh is what I meant.
David Thompson, not that I'm going to get anything at that price either...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Need to throw watts at the problem, Turn up the stereo :-)
In a DC EV, you have one heck of a power amplifier under the hood. We know
that ADC motors do a respectable job of reproducing that 2k chopping
frequency that the Curtis controllers generate at low duty cycle.
So, controller designers - how about adding frequency modulation on your
chopping rate? You should be able to generate quite a few interesting
sounds, and perhaps with quite a bit of volume, too.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
When the president does it, that means it is not illegal.
-- Richard Nixon
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< Hi David ,
Try the Motorcycles & Bicycles category the # is 030357 It expires on
the 1st now at $1500
Good luck, Bill >>>
It might make a nice NEV with that 25mph top speed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
...it WOULD be worth installing a squirrel cage fan
I strongly agree.
But all you need is a good muffin fan.
Your solution definitely works.
My solution for forced air cooling is to locate the air inlet near the
front of the ride and install the squirrel cage fan there. The cage fan
allows you to use small diameter ducting so that all can be tucked up
inside the body work.
I then run the ducting to the motor and into the back of the motor using
a shroud to seal it. This takes cool air from the front of the ride and
pushes it through the motor, exhausting out the front. This also insures
that no debris can get sucked into the motor as the intake is far away
from it.
Just another technique to consider. It's worked very well for me in the
past. We did a feature a couple of years ago on this technique and it
has now been duplicated all over the world with great success.
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:05 AM 29/01/05 -0800, Otmar wrote:
As I understand it, this will blow one arc outward and one arc inward
(essentially both in the same direction) either up or down, I don't know which.
___
[S-N] (out) [S-N]
| |
| o |
| |
[S-N] ( in) [S-N] Warning! I may have out and in reversed!
---
This is how the Albright magnets are set up. I'm not clear about which one
is + and which is - (in/out) since I don't have anything handy to tell me
north and south of the magnets. I've looked all over for that darn compass!
Here is my email with the discussion from the last time it came up.
At 6:34 PM -0700 9-17-04, Otmar wrote:
Thanks Otmar, I thought it was longer ago than that.
Yet again I've overlooked the #%&!! obvious, that having 'flipped' the
direction of the current, I failed to 'flip' the direction that the arc
needs to travel. As for polarity, I'll put some magnets into the holes and
do a test. The bodies have + marked, but no magnets at this time.
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
I was checking because I was pretty sure there was a way to save my SIADIS
display settings and mail you the file. I found a surprise.
In 6 Timing diagram, if you hit S for save, there is S for saveScale but of
more immediate interest there is A for saveASCII. This saves each graph as a
different file .DIA file which import easily into Excel. The solution was
there all the time.
I wonder if we can use what you have figured out to 'read' live the data
coming from the inverters. The big flaw with SIADIS is that KW-HRS data does
not seem to be available as a display. As far as I know (Victor, please
correct me if I am wrong), You can only see this information by going to 9
Utilities then 2 Statistics which will show you KW-Hrs used since last
reset. This means there is no way to come up with a display to show % of
charge left.
Using something like Labview, I can send and receive from the serial port.
It would be nice to be able to get the data directly and use it to come up
with some % remaining or with RPM, miles remaining display.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I actually did this by accident back in 1990
when I was designing a darlington transistor
control for a Caterpillar forklift. There was a
subroutine in my software that caused the PWM
frequency to change with accelerator position. I was
able to 'play a tune' with the motor. I think I was
even more impressed than my boss! This didn't end up
being a feature on this production forklift
unfortunately.
Rod
--- David Roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Need to throw watts at the problem, Turn up the
> stereo :-)
>
> In a DC EV, you have one heck of a power amplifier
> under the hood. We know
> that ADC motors do a respectable job of reproducing
> that 2k chopping
> frequency that the Curtis controllers generate at
> low duty cycle.
>
> So, controller designers - how about adding
> frequency modulation on your
> chopping rate? You should be able to generate quite
> a few interesting
> sounds, and perhaps with quite a bit of volume, too.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while
> you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See
> http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
> When the president does it, that means it is not
> illegal.
>
> -- Richard Nixon
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was having a pretty high success rate getting useable li-ion cells from "dead"
battery packs, but have had a run of dead ones. These were all made with 4
paralleled 17500 cells - none of the several hundred cells I previously tested
had such a high failure rate, but they were also 17670's or 18650's, in pairs
and a few triplets.
I try to trickle charge each pack directly (I discard all the BMS boards),
10-20% I have to break up and try at 4.25V per "set", and a third of these get
broken into individual cells when that doesn't work - a single 14.4V/3.6Ah pack
that won't charge might be 4 pairs of cells, which can have 3 good pairs and a
single good cell.
We'll see how these do in my eLamby, but it won't get more "outdoor work" done
until a bit warmer weather.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doh, and such an obvious category choice too, LOL. Thats probably the only
auction category I DIDNT look in. Looks like it would be a nice piece
especially if one could regear it for highway speeds. Not what I need right
now tho. Hope someone on the list gets it and finds a good use for it.
Thanks again, David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 12:46 PM
Subject: Re Electro truck
Hi David ,
Try the Motorcycles & Bicycles category the # is 030357 It expires on
the 1st now at $1500
Good luck, Bill
Subject:
Re: 1999 electro truck
From:
"David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:
Fri, 28 Jan 2005 23:40:15 -0700
To:
<[email protected]>
Bill,
Couldn't find the auction you were referring to. I did see some
outhouses going cheap and a strange looking plasma cutter in
"Humptulips" but no electric truck anywhere in Wa. Got an item #? David
Chapman.
----- Original Message ----- From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:54 AM
Subject: 1999 electro truck
Hi Folks there is a '99 72 volt electro truck on the gsa web site
http://gsaauctions.gov in Wa. closing 2/1. I wonder if it could be
improved by going to 96 or even 120 volt? Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another company bites the dust. Zinc air is a great technology. I've seen
it in action. Boggles the mind that they couldn't make a working product.
In the late ninties I saw a golf cart go 1000 miles on one charge. Wish I
had the prototype in my bike or car. Lawrence Rhodes....
From:
http://www.socaltech.com/fullstory/0001124.html
Friday, October 29, 2004
Metallic Power Shuts Doors
The San Diego Union Tribune is reporting that Carlsbad-based Metallic Power
has shut its doors. Metallic Power was developing zinc fuel cell technology,
and had raised over $40M in venture funding from Perseus, Cinergy Ventures,
CDP Capital, and others. The company had produced a prototype of its
technology, but had been unable to manufacture it economically.
From:
http://www.idfuel.com/index.php?p=74&more=1&c=1
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I brushed of the rust and used a rust encaptualation product on the front
battery box I then used Blackjack roofing tar in all corners of the box
and reinstalled the factory plactic liner. The rear box lost the bottom so
I will do the same on the exposed bed. It went through in one place.
That'll get extra paint. Putting a wood bottom in the box for support. I'm
a little worried about the US batteries. They are a bit taller than the
stock batteries.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another company bites the dust. Zinc air is a great technology.
Maybe for batteries....
Metallic Power was developing zinc fuel cell technology, and had
raised over $40M in venture funding...<SNIP>...but had been unable to
manufacture it economically.
Another example that throwing large sums of money at fool cells will not
automagically make them cheap to produce.
How much could have been accomplished if that $40M had been spent on
pure battery technology development? It's heartbreaking, really. There
is SO MUCH money available to throw at fool cells, yet companies that
are PROVING that BEV technology is reliable, practical, and cost
effective (with volume production) continue to scrape by on tablescraps
with no big investment in the space.
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
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--- Begin Message ---
Fantastic - good job on finding this feature.
Yes my hope is that if we can crack the file format, it may lead to
monitoring the controller line in real time. I have done a lot of searching
on the net for the protocol, but all I could find was the protocol for the
Siemens industrial motor controllers.
I will still keep at it to see what I can find out.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: ProEV [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: January 29, 2005 4:21 PM
To: [email protected]; Victor Tikhonov; Don Cameron
Subject: Opps! Answer to decoding .TRC file
Don,
I was checking because I was pretty sure there was a way to save my SIADIS
display settings and mail you the file. I found a surprise.
In 6 Timing diagram, if you hit S for save, there is S for saveScale but of
more immediate interest there is A for saveASCII. This saves each graph as a
different file .DIA file which import easily into Excel. The solution was
there all the time.
I wonder if we can use what you have figured out to 'read' live the data
coming from the inverters. The big flaw with SIADIS is that KW-HRS data does
not seem to be available as a display. As far as I know (Victor, please
correct me if I am wrong), You can only see this information by going to 9
Utilities then 2 Statistics which will show you KW-Hrs used since last
reset. This means there is no way to come up with a display to show % of
charge left.
Using something like Labview, I can send and receive from the serial port.
It would be nice to be able to get the data directly and use it to come up
with some % remaining or with RPM, miles remaining display.
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
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With this topic about the serial communications and the Palm, I thought
I'd chime in. I find the Zilla serial interface totally adequate. I'm
very glad I mounted a Palm on my lower dash. It is so nice to have
instant access to settings on the Zilla. I think once the average
driver gets things set the way they want, they won't mess much with the
settings. Especially with the availability of the valet mode - just
mount an extra switch somewhere accessible to the driver, and you have a
second set of programmed settings at your fingertips. Like when you
take your EV to get new tires and the workers all decide to take the car
for a spin to see how fast it will go. There is some temptation though
to leave it on full power so they really think you are cool :)
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
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I attempted to get hold of them a while back. The
spec's looked good but their plans had holes the size
of the moon. They were basing off of main stream
acceptance and a refueling structure that was non
exsistant. Had they proposed it as a battery instead
and sold to EV'er I think they would have done quite
well. They only wanted to sell to Auto OEM's which
didn't want electric vehicle in the first place.
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Another company bites the dust. Zinc air is a
> great technology.
>
> Maybe for batteries....
>
> > Metallic Power was developing zinc fuel cell
> technology, and had
> > raised over $40M in venture funding...<SNIP>...but
> had been unable to
> > manufacture it economically.
>
> Another example that throwing large sums of money at
> fool cells will not
> automagically make them cheap to produce.
>
> How much could have been accomplished if that $40M
> had been spent on
> pure battery technology development? It's
> heartbreaking, really. There
> is SO MUCH money available to throw at fool cells,
> yet companies that
> are PROVING that BEV technology is reliable,
> practical, and cost
> effective (with volume production) continue to
> scrape by on tablescraps
> with no big investment in the space.
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX - 801-749-7807
> message - 866-872-8901
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
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Going 1/16" buss bars 1" wide. I'm not going to tin. Just smear conductive
grease on the contact surface. I want good contact. Just use a thick
washer? I've heard there are special washers that help. I've heard a spear
cutter or a fine jigsaw is best for cutting sheet copper. I got some
heatshrink. Another technique is copper pipe smashed at the ends covered
by PVC tubing. Anybody done this? Might be a cheap solution. Lawrence
Rhodes......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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At 10:53 PM 29/01/05 -0800, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Going 1/16" buss bars 1" wide.
That's about 40mm square - according to my table that'll give you
continuous current rating of 210A, for a temperature rise of 65deg C. There
will be heating at high amps from the resistance of the buss bars. But I'm
not experienced enough to comment as to if that'll be a problem.
I'm not going to tin. Just smear conductive grease on the contact surface.
I want good contact.
Tinning would help good contact more than conductive grease.
Just use a thick washer? I've heard there are special washers that help.
Here in Aus they are called Belleville washers (not certain that's how
they're spelt). Look like a flat washer that has been coned slightly. Made
of spring steel, the only ones I've seen are always black. Buy from a
reputable supplier, and test them to be sure they are spring steel. I
believe the best way to install them is alternate sides: ()(), but others
can probably comment better.
I've heard a spear cutter or a fine jigsaw is best for cutting sheet
copper.
I use a fine bladed jigsaw or hacksaw on copper, with cutting compound if
I'm cutting any size.
I got some heatshrink.
Glue lined? Would help reduce corrosion of the bars.
Another technique is copper pipe smashed at the ends covered by PVC
tubing. Anybody done this?
Might be a cheap solution. Lawrence Rhodes......
Although I can't realy comment, I don't like the sound of PVC covering and
not sure that you'd get enough cross-section of bar from flattened tube
unless you are into a fairly big size.
James.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:34 PM
Subject: serial terminal - zilla
> With this topic about the serial communications and the Palm, I thought
>I'd chime in. I find the Zilla serial interface totally adequate.
Me to , now that I know how to enter things , I set my battery amp to 150
the other day to see what that was like , with motor amp at 1000 it still
had the same , good pickup from a stand still , reset it to 500 where I
think the golf cart batteries will be happy. All easy to do. I was wandering
how the hair ball relates to the controller. If you had a 2k hv hair ball
and a 1k lv controller and didn't have the setting right for the 1k would it
try to get 2k out of the 1k controller, .
steve clunn
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I retrofitted one of these back in 1995 with
a GE shunt system. Top speed was 30 MPH and
load capacity was 1500 lbs. I used the test vehicle
to haul an EZGO golf cart to the house in NC. We also
did some steep hill testing in CA when Rick Doran
worked
for Taylor-Dunn. We drove it to the test site and
back
on a major street (can't remember the name, but
Disneyland was on the same road). Luckily no cops
pulled us over, not sure if it was street legal.
They were originally hoping to use it as a delivery
truck in Mexico City.
This would be a nice work truck if somebody had low
speed deliveries with short distance runs.
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> <<< Hi David ,
> Try the Motorcycles & Bicycles category the # is
> 030357 It expires on
> the 1st now at $1500
> Good luck, Bill >>>
>
> It might make a nice NEV with that 25mph top speed.
>
>
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www.metricmind.com sells Li-ion cells for $2.00/Ah in quantities > 100.
Since each cell is 3.6V nominal, that's 3.6Wh for $2.00, or about $0.55/Wh.
If you can find a BMS for 20% the cost of the batteries, then you'd pay
about $0.66/Wh.
Example, buy 101 of the 90Ah cells for $18,180. Purchase a BMS for $3600.
Total cost: $21,780. Total Wh: 32,724. Cost per Wh: ~$0.66.
Add in a boost pack of cheap Hawkers for acceleration and the cost goes down
to below $0.65/Wh.
Does this meet the specs in your original post? Pretty close, except for
the Wh deliverable (32,000 vs. 13,000). However, going 300 miles on 13,000
Wh comes to 43Wh/mile (or 69Wh/mile if you meant 300 km), so the original
specs probably couldn't be met by a 4-wheel vehicle in any case.
Original Spec: This method:
300V system 360V system
100A continuous That's 1.1C for 90Ah cells--a bit high
But why is 100A continuous necessary
at 300V?
300A peak Boost pack meets this
Sag to 280V Boost pack helps with this
800 lbs. max 511 lbs of Li-ion +
267 lbs of Hawkers
300 (miles?) Build an aero frame that gets 100Wh/mile
300 (km?) Build an aero frame that gets 160Wh/mile
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James D Thompson
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 3:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My Battery Pack Specifications
>Now if you meant $1.75/wh, I know of a battery that can get pretty close.
Actually, I screwed up the cost completely. $0.65 per wh is what I meant.
David Thompson, not that I'm going to get anything at that price either...
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I have one now from a Th!nk. What is it good for other than fueling my
friends factory EV's. Is the EAA still selling the inlet?
Is it worth anything in trade? I was going to put an Avcon in my EV's.. Is
there an advantage using AVCON for safety? I saw in the Archieves that this
paddle may not fit all Avcon inlets. Thanks for any help.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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You might consider how we do it in the power business, as the techniques
are well proven.
I highly recommend you silver plate at least the mating surfaces. This is
the stuff you do it with.
http://www.cool-amp.com/page3.html
This is a powder that you wipe on with a wet cloth that leaves a silver
plating. In hostile environments, the whole bus is plated. In benign
environments, only the mating surfaces.
Note too, that Cool-Amp sells a silver loaded conductive past. One of the
few I've seen that is actually "conductive" in a current handling sense.
It's best to bolt the connections using fasteners of like material. Hard
copper or phosphor-bronze for copper bus bars and aluminum fasteners for
aluminum. The reason is to manage thermal expansion. Steel and copper
have widely varying thermal expansion coefficients so the joint is likely
to loosen over many thermal cycles. It is important to maintain a "gas
tight" seal between the conductors or else corrosion will intrude.
Maintaining the proper tension is integral to that.
The washers you're thinking of are probably Belleville washers. A washer
made of spring steel that has had the center pushed out a bit so that it
forms a truncated cone. There are several problems with a Belleville in
this application. One, the spring tension has to be matched to the
fasteners. If the tension is too low, the washer doesn't function and
simply mashes down to a flat one. If too high then the washer isn't
compressed or the fastener is over-stressed by the installer forcing
compression. Both mating surfaces are sharp and will dig into soft metal
like copper. That means that at least one hardened flat washer must be
used between the Belleville and the bus. This introduces yet another
layer of thermal incompatibility. You'll be much better off putting out
the extra effort to get the proper fasteners. Check McMaster-Carr or any
of the other MRO outfitters.
The usual method of making up a joint is to drill either 3 diagonal (for
small bars) or 5 (4 corners and one in the center) smaller holes rather
than one or two large ones. The multiple small fasteners spread the force
more evenly and much better resist thermal effects.
For cutting, I just use a fine toothed saw. Big jobs have on hand a
shear-type cutter but that's impractical for small jobs. Be sure to bevel
the cut edges so that spurs won't get in the way of a secure joint.
Ordinary copper pipe works OK for short runs of moderate current. It
isn't as conductive as bus bar. The wall thickness is also pretty light.
Nonetheless it can serve in a pinch.
John
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 22:53:51 -0800, "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Going 1/16" buss bars 1" wide. I'm not going to tin. Just smear conductive
>grease on the contact surface. I want good contact. Just use a thick
>washer? I've heard there are special washers that help. I've heard a spear
>cutter or a fine jigsaw is best for cutting sheet copper. I got some
>heatshrink. Another technique is copper pipe smashed at the ends covered
>by PVC tubing. Anybody done this? Might be a cheap solution. Lawrence
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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