EV Digest 4072
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: low rolling resistance tyres
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) More military NiCads up for auction
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Control question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) NiFE cells, was Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
hi evan
i agree totally that the data was unlikely to be hard
from my recomendation
however i would get some fun from it
as to building a test rig with one car tire at the
back - no problem
see - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
for the last stupid test rig i built
all of the factors like drag etc would of course be
the same in my test so they wouldn't affect the rating
of one tyre as better than another
regards
reb
no --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> That's basically what I'm doing, except I only
> need one tyre, and
> eliminate brake, steering and transmission drag, air
> resistance,
> driver influence, etc etc. Doing comparisons on the
> road is OK to say
> "these tyres are better than this one" but it's not
> giving me a number
> to put into calculations.
> Also, car tyres don't fit very well on karts or
> bikes :)
>
> Regards
> Evan.
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:09:19 +0000 (GMT), richard
> ball
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > how about
> > build a test rig go kart / bike
> > find a long hill
> > time yourself over a set distance
> > fit a different tire
> > try again
> > empirical data is always better than theory
> > admitedly this will only give you comparative data
> but
> > it seems we are only looking for which tyre is
> > 1st,2nd,3rd etc
> > does any one really care about numerical
> statistics or
> > are we trying to find out which is best ?
> > please feel free to comment if you think this is a
> > stupid idea
> > if you are looking for a kart/hill/driver - here i
> am
> > just send me a big pile of tires and i'll gladly
> test
> > them out.
> > regards
> > reb
> >
> >
> > --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > Well, I have an old trailer hub that I could
> use.
> > > I would fix it to
> > > a long beam and support the end on a pivot, the
> hub
> > > will have the test
> > > tyre mounted and then I will use a spring
> balance to
> > > see how much
> > > force is needed to start the tyre moving and
> keep it
> > > moving for a
> > > short distance. I could load the beam with an
> > > appropriate weight.
> > > The drawback is that the tyre is moving in a
> circle,
> > > albeit quite a
> > > big one. I am open to suggestions though :)
> > >
> > > On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:55:43 -0500, Philip
> Marino
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > How do you plan to test the tires?
> > > >
> > > > Phil Marino
> > > >
> > > > >From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > >Subject: low rolling resistance tyres
> > > > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:25:26 +0000
> > > > >
> > > > >I have been looking in the EVDL archives and
> on
> > > the web for rolling
> > > > >resistance coefficients of available car and
> > > motorcycle tyres, and
> > > > >have not found much. I have contacted
> several
> > > tyre companies and will
> > > > >post any data here but I don't expect to get
> much
> > > back from them.
> > > > > I have also asked a local tyre place which
> > > sells part-worn tyres, to
> > > > >give me some e.g. popular brands with
> punctures
> > > or sidewall damage to
> > > > >do comparison tests and hopefully calculate
> coe
> > > figures for them, but
> > > > >that might take some time.
> > > > >Does anyone have any numbers to share? All
> the
> > > tyre brochures say is
> > > > >"20% less rolling resistance!" - compared to
> > > what?!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
> > > Search!
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
___________________________________________________________
> > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:45:44 +0000 (GMT), richard ball
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi evan
> i agree totally that the data was unlikely to be hard
> from my recomendation
> however i would get some fun from it
> as to building a test rig with one car tire at the
> back - no problem
> see - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
> for the last stupid test rig i built
Heheh, what are the batteries doing out behind the back wheels?!
Bet that's fun to ride :)
> all of the factors like drag etc would of course be
> the same in my test so they wouldn't affect the rating
> of one tyre as better than another
Yeah up to a point.. the problem is that some factors are variable
(wind speed, exact vehicle path etc) and the differences between tyres
might be less than those factors.
But yes, it would be more fun than pulling a 1-wheeled trailer around
in circles in my barn..
Anyway I just got some data back from Conti - if I get a few examples
of available tyres I won't have to bother testing them myself.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi evan
you may notice from the photos of the trike that i
relocated the batteries in front of the axle after the
first disatrous test drive (crash)
the rig was only intended to try the motor controller
combination - of course i couldn't resist riding it
down the shop etc despite the fact that it had some
major design flaws of which i was only to aware whilst
building it
you are of course correct about the minor variations
and how big a difference this makes
the variations in tyres are as you say probably too
small to record in anything other tha lab conditions
sadly my own impatience has led to most of my
engineering career being based on "build it and see"
often with less than spectacular results
on the up side i have built literally thousands of
different things and most worked just fine
so some times guessing and trying are as good as
calculations and carefully set up tests
(some of the bad thins i've built have been the most
fun)
good luck wit your sensible method
let us know the results
regards
reb
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:45:44 +0000 (GMT), richard
> ball
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > hi evan
> > i agree totally that the data was unlikely to be
> hard
> > from my recomendation
> > however i would get some fun from it
> > as to building a test rig with one car tire at
> the
> > back - no problem
> > see - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
> > for the last stupid test rig i built
>
> Heheh, what are the batteries doing out behind the
> back wheels?!
> Bet that's fun to ride :)
>
> > all of the factors like drag etc would of course
> be
> > the same in my test so they wouldn't affect the
> rating
> > of one tyre as better than another
>
> Yeah up to a point.. the problem is that some
> factors are variable
> (wind speed, exact vehicle path etc) and the
> differences between tyres
> might be less than those factors.
>
> But yes, it would be more fun than pulling a
> 1-wheeled trailer around
> in circles in my barn..
>
> Anyway I just got some data back from Conti - if I
> get a few examples
> of available tyres I won't have to bother testing
> them myself.
>
>
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its best to do a deflection test of a tire too. This determines the load
rating at a certain PSI, that is mark on the side of the tire. Tire
manufactures about a 5 percent deflection test to rated there tires.
The more deflection a tires has, the more resistance to rolling it has.
Example on how this is done:
Air the tire to the maximum rating that is mark on the side of the time.
Such as 1500 lbs load rating at 35 PSI.
With the tire mounted on the car, lower it to the floor where it just
touches the floor surface.
Measure from the floor to the bottom edge of the wheel rim. Lets say you
have 5 inches.
Now lower the car down on the floor which should be a level area.
Measure it again and lets say you are at 4.75 inches. This would be about
just right. You have a 5 percent deflection rated. This means you have
1500 lbs per wheel or could have a total weight of 3000 lbs per axil.
If deflection measurements are over or under the 5 percent rate, than adjust
the PSI as needed.
Also the tire materials and compound effects the rolling resistance. The
best tire I ran was a Good Year Rayon Bias 8 ply air to 50 PSI. The EV
would roll down a 2 mile hill starting at 35 MPH at the top from my work
site and hit over 70 MPH at the bottom and
continue on another 2 miles to a exit of which I was now at 30 mph, then
going another 4 blocks that was a slight down hill all the way into my
garage.
The tires I am running are bad!! They are NYLON belted steel 8 Radial that
are rated at 2500 lbs at 65 PSI. The NYLON tire when setting, becomes out
of round and increases the resistance and a very rough ride.
When rolling down the hill, the speed actually decreases! which is
ridiculous. I went back to the tire vender and told him I thought you said
Radial tires have less rolling resistance then a Bias type!!
They say in some cases that the Bias Rayon may be better then the Radial
Nylon because this material makes the deflection too stiff. Today, they say
that the Radial Rayon is the Low Rolling Resistance tires.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: low rolling resistance tyres
> hi evan
> i agree totally that the data was unlikely to be hard
> from my recomendation
> however i would get some fun from it
> as to building a test rig with one car tire at the
> back - no problem
> see - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
> for the last stupid test rig i built
> all of the factors like drag etc would of course be
> the same in my test so they wouldn't affect the rating
> of one tyre as better than another
> regards
> reb
>
>
> no --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Richard,
> > That's basically what I'm doing, except I only
> > need one tyre, and
> > eliminate brake, steering and transmission drag, air
> > resistance,
> > driver influence, etc etc. Doing comparisons on the
> > road is OK to say
> > "these tyres are better than this one" but it's not
> > giving me a number
> > to put into calculations.
> > Also, car tyres don't fit very well on karts or
> > bikes :)
> >
> > Regards
> > Evan.
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:09:19 +0000 (GMT), richard
> > ball
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > how about
> > > build a test rig go kart / bike
> > > find a long hill
> > > time yourself over a set distance
> > > fit a different tire
> > > try again
> > > empirical data is always better than theory
> > > admitedly this will only give you comparative data
> > but
> > > it seems we are only looking for which tyre is
> > > 1st,2nd,3rd etc
> > > does any one really care about numerical
> > statistics or
> > > are we trying to find out which is best ?
> > > please feel free to comment if you think this is a
> > > stupid idea
> > > if you are looking for a kart/hill/driver - here i
> > am
> > > just send me a big pile of tires and i'll gladly
> > test
> > > them out.
> > > regards
> > > reb
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > Well, I have an old trailer hub that I could
> > use.
> > > > I would fix it to
> > > > a long beam and support the end on a pivot, the
> > hub
> > > > will have the test
> > > > tyre mounted and then I will use a spring
> > balance to
> > > > see how much
> > > > force is needed to start the tyre moving and
> > keep it
> > > > moving for a
> > > > short distance. I could load the beam with an
> > > > appropriate weight.
> > > > The drawback is that the tyre is moving in a
> > circle,
> > > > albeit quite a
> > > > big one. I am open to suggestions though :)
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:55:43 -0500, Philip
> > Marino
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > How do you plan to test the tires?
> > > > >
> > > > > Phil Marino
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > > >Subject: low rolling resistance tyres
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:25:26 +0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I have been looking in the EVDL archives and
> > on
> > > > the web for rolling
> > > > > >resistance coefficients of available car and
> > > > motorcycle tyres, and
> > > > > >have not found much. I have contacted
> > several
> > > > tyre companies and will
> > > > > >post any data here but I don't expect to get
> > much
> > > > back from them.
> > > > > > I have also asked a local tyre place which
> > > > sells part-worn tyres, to
> > > > > >give me some e.g. popular brands with
> > punctures
> > > > or sidewall damage to
> > > > > >do comparison tests and hopefully calculate
> > coe
> > > > figures for them, but
> > > > > >that might take some time.
> > > > > >Does anyone have any numbers to share? All
> > the
> > > > tyre brochures say is
> > > > > >"20% less rolling resistance!" - compared to
> > > > what?!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
> > > > Search!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________
> > > ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> > more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Why don't they just read the RPM off the roller?
As I understand it torque is calculated at the engine shaft (since you
may shift gears on the dyno). Engine RPM relative to wheel RPM is used
to calculate driveline ratios.
Also note that many dynos will only have a HV pickup designed to go on a
sparkplug wire. Some will have a LV pickup that goes over the power
lead to the ignition coil. Neither will work well with the low current
12v tach signal used in our EVs.
I've been trying to solve this problem for awhile.. and still have not
found a good solution. If I had saved the ignition coil and module from
the MR2 before conversion I could have used that to fire a sparkplug in
time with the tach signal. I have an ignition module/coil from an 88
Jeep Cherokee but it has 5 pins and I have no idea what the pinout is.
Mark Farver
Mark Farver
!DSPAM:420164999322136420805!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi roland
slowing down instead of speeding up going downhill !!
now that is a big difference
i wonder if you had a hill long enough what the final
rolling speed would be and if that final rolling speed
would be a good way of comparing one tyre against
another ?
reb
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Its best to do a deflection test of a tire too. This
> determines the load
> rating at a certain PSI, that is mark on the side of
> the tire. Tire
> manufactures about a 5 percent deflection test to
> rated there tires.
>
> The more deflection a tires has, the more resistance
> to rolling it has.
>
> Example on how this is done:
>
> Air the tire to the maximum rating that is mark on
> the side of the time.
> Such as 1500 lbs load rating at 35 PSI.
>
> With the tire mounted on the car, lower it to the
> floor where it just
> touches the floor surface.
>
> Measure from the floor to the bottom edge of the
> wheel rim. Lets say you
> have 5 inches.
>
> Now lower the car down on the floor which should be
> a level area.
>
> Measure it again and lets say you are at 4.75
> inches. This would be about
> just right. You have a 5 percent deflection rated.
> This means you have
> 1500 lbs per wheel or could have a total weight of
> 3000 lbs per axil.
>
> If deflection measurements are over or under the 5
> percent rate, than adjust
> the PSI as needed.
>
> Also the tire materials and compound effects the
> rolling resistance. The
> best tire I ran was a Good Year Rayon Bias 8 ply air
> to 50 PSI. The EV
> would roll down a 2 mile hill starting at 35 MPH at
> the top from my work
> site and hit over 70 MPH at the bottom and
> continue on another 2 miles to a exit of which I was
> now at 30 mph, then
> going another 4 blocks that was a slight down hill
> all the way into my
> garage.
>
> The tires I am running are bad!! They are NYLON
> belted steel 8 Radial that
> are rated at 2500 lbs at 65 PSI. The NYLON tire
> when setting, becomes out
> of round and increases the resistance and a very
> rough ride.
>
> When rolling down the hill, the speed actually
> decreases! which is
> ridiculous. I went back to the tire vender and told
> him I thought you said
> Radial tires have less rolling resistance then a
> Bias type!!
>
> They say in some cases that the Bias Rayon may be
> better then the Radial
> Nylon because this material makes the deflection too
> stiff. Today, they say
> that the Radial Rayon is the Low Rolling Resistance
> tires.
>
> Roland
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:45 AM
> Subject: Re: low rolling resistance tyres
>
>
> > hi evan
> > i agree totally that the data was unlikely to be
> hard
> > from my recomendation
> > however i would get some fun from it
> > as to building a test rig with one car tire at
> the
> > back - no problem
> > see - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
> > for the last stupid test rig i built
> > all of the factors like drag etc would of course
> be
> > the same in my test so they wouldn't affect the
> rating
> > of one tyre as better than another
> > regards
> > reb
> >
> >
> > no --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi Richard,
> > > That's basically what I'm doing, except I only
> > > need one tyre, and
> > > eliminate brake, steering and transmission drag,
> air
> > > resistance,
> > > driver influence, etc etc. Doing comparisons on
> the
> > > road is OK to say
> > > "these tyres are better than this one" but it's
> not
> > > giving me a number
> > > to put into calculations.
> > > Also, car tyres don't fit very well on karts or
> > > bikes :)
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Evan.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:09:19 +0000 (GMT), richard
> > > ball
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > how about
> > > > build a test rig go kart / bike
> > > > find a long hill
> > > > time yourself over a set distance
> > > > fit a different tire
> > > > try again
> > > > empirical data is always better than theory
> > > > admitedly this will only give you comparative
> data
> > > but
> > > > it seems we are only looking for which tyre is
> > > > 1st,2nd,3rd etc
> > > > does any one really care about numerical
> > > statistics or
> > > > are we trying to find out which is best ?
> > > > please feel free to comment if you think this
> is a
> > > > stupid idea
> > > > if you are looking for a kart/hill/driver -
> here i
> > > am
> > > > just send me a big pile of tires and i'll
> gladly
> > > test
> > > > them out.
> > > > regards
> > > > reb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > Well, I have an old trailer hub that I
> could
> > > use.
> > > > > I would fix it to
> > > > > a long beam and support the end on a pivot,
> the
> > > hub
> > > > > will have the test
> > > > > tyre mounted and then I will use a spring
> > > balance to
> > > > > see how much
> > > > > force is needed to start the tyre moving and
> > > keep it
> > > > > moving for a
> > > > > short distance. I could load the beam with
> an
> > > > > appropriate weight.
> > > > > The drawback is that the tyre is moving in a
> > > circle,
> > > > > albeit quite a
> > > > > big one. I am open to suggestions though :)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:55:43 -0500, Philip
> > > Marino
> > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > How do you plan to test the tires?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Phil Marino
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > > > >Subject: low rolling resistance tyres
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:25:26 +0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >I have been looking in the EVDL archives
> and
> > > on
> > > > > the web for rolling
> > > > > > >resistance coefficients of available car
> and
> > > > > motorcycle tyres, and
> > > > > > >have not found much. I have contacted
> > > several
> > > > > tyre companies and will
> > > > > > >post any data here but I don't expect to
> get
> > > much
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
Regards
Richard
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The tires when setting at work at a low temperature, become flat or out of
round. When rolling down hill, I had to apply power to keep it at 70 mph.
I also at one time ran a VW Bug down this hill, which is a very lite weight.
This car would get up to only 50 mph, because of the engine holding back
through a overall gear ratio of over 4 to 1.
These Nylon tires need a run out at about 50 mph for about 5 miles, before
they are rounded out.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: low rolling resistance tyres
> hi roland
> slowing down instead of speeding up going downhill !!
> now that is a big difference
> i wonder if you had a hill long enough what the final
> rolling speed would be and if that final rolling speed
> would be a good way of comparing one tyre against
> another ?
> reb
>
> --- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Its best to do a deflection test of a tire too. This
> > determines the load
> > rating at a certain PSI, that is mark on the side of
> > the tire. Tire
> > manufactures about a 5 percent deflection test to
> > rated there tires.
> >
> > The more deflection a tires has, the more resistance
> > to rolling it has.
> >
> > Example on how this is done:
> >
> > Air the tire to the maximum rating that is mark on
> > the side of the time.
> > Such as 1500 lbs load rating at 35 PSI.
> >
> > With the tire mounted on the car, lower it to the
> > floor where it just
> > touches the floor surface.
> >
> > Measure from the floor to the bottom edge of the
> > wheel rim. Lets say you
> > have 5 inches.
> >
> > Now lower the car down on the floor which should be
> > a level area.
> >
> > Measure it again and lets say you are at 4.75
> > inches. This would be about
> > just right. You have a 5 percent deflection rated.
> > This means you have
> > 1500 lbs per wheel or could have a total weight of
> > 3000 lbs per axil.
> >
> > If deflection measurements are over or under the 5
> > percent rate, than adjust
> > the PSI as needed.
> >
> > Also the tire materials and compound effects the
> > rolling resistance. The
> > best tire I ran was a Good Year Rayon Bias 8 ply air
> > to 50 PSI. The EV
> > would roll down a 2 mile hill starting at 35 MPH at
> > the top from my work
> > site and hit over 70 MPH at the bottom and
> > continue on another 2 miles to a exit of which I was
> > now at 30 mph, then
> > going another 4 blocks that was a slight down hill
> > all the way into my
> > garage.
> >
> > The tires I am running are bad!! They are NYLON
> > belted steel 8 Radial that
> > are rated at 2500 lbs at 65 PSI. The NYLON tire
> > when setting, becomes out
> > of round and increases the resistance and a very
> > rough ride.
> >
> > When rolling down the hill, the speed actually
> > decreases! which is
> > ridiculous. I went back to the tire vender and told
> > him I thought you said
> > Radial tires have less rolling resistance then a
> > Bias type!!
> >
> > They say in some cases that the Bias Rayon may be
> > better then the Radial
> > Nylon because this material makes the deflection too
> > stiff. Today, they say
> > that the Radial Rayon is the Low Rolling Resistance
> > tires.
> >
> > Roland
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: low rolling resistance tyres
> >
> >
> > > hi evan
> > > i agree totally that the data was unlikely to be
> > hard
> > > from my recomendation
> > > however i would get some fun from it
> > > as to building a test rig with one car tire at
> > the
> > > back - no problem
> > > see - http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/591.html
> > > for the last stupid test rig i built
> > > all of the factors like drag etc would of course
> > be
> > > the same in my test so they wouldn't affect the
> > rating
> > > of one tyre as better than another
> > > regards
> > > reb
> > >
> > >
> > > no --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Hi Richard,
> > > > That's basically what I'm doing, except I only
> > > > need one tyre, and
> > > > eliminate brake, steering and transmission drag,
> > air
> > > > resistance,
> > > > driver influence, etc etc. Doing comparisons on
> > the
> > > > road is OK to say
> > > > "these tyres are better than this one" but it's
> > not
> > > > giving me a number
> > > > to put into calculations.
> > > > Also, car tyres don't fit very well on karts or
> > > > bikes :)
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > > Evan.
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:09:19 +0000 (GMT), richard
> > > > ball
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > how about
> > > > > build a test rig go kart / bike
> > > > > find a long hill
> > > > > time yourself over a set distance
> > > > > fit a different tire
> > > > > try again
> > > > > empirical data is always better than theory
> > > > > admitedly this will only give you comparative
> > data
> > > > but
> > > > > it seems we are only looking for which tyre is
> > > > > 1st,2nd,3rd etc
> > > > > does any one really care about numerical
> > > > statistics or
> > > > > are we trying to find out which is best ?
> > > > > please feel free to comment if you think this
> > is a
> > > > > stupid idea
> > > > > if you are looking for a kart/hill/driver -
> > here i
> > > > am
> > > > > just send me a big pile of tires and i'll
> > gladly
> > > > test
> > > > > them out.
> > > > > regards
> > > > > reb
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > Well, I have an old trailer hub that I
> > could
> > > > use.
> > > > > > I would fix it to
> > > > > > a long beam and support the end on a pivot,
> > the
> > > > hub
> > > > > > will have the test
> > > > > > tyre mounted and then I will use a spring
> > > > balance to
> > > > > > see how much
> > > > > > force is needed to start the tyre moving and
> > > > keep it
> > > > > > moving for a
> > > > > > short distance. I could load the beam with
> > an
> > > > > > appropriate weight.
> > > > > > The drawback is that the tyre is moving in a
> > > > circle,
> > > > > > albeit quite a
> > > > > > big one. I am open to suggestions though :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:55:43 -0500, Philip
> > > > Marino
> > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > > > > How do you plan to test the tires?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Phil Marino
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: [email protected]
> > > > > > > >To: [email protected]
> > > > > > > >Subject: low rolling resistance tyres
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:25:26 +0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >I have been looking in the EVDL archives
> > and
> > > > on
> > > > > > the web for rolling
> > > > > > > >resistance coefficients of available car
> > and
> > > > > > motorcycle tyres, and
> > > > > > > >have not found much. I have contacted
> > > > several
> > > > > > tyre companies and will
> > > > > > > >post any data here but I don't expect to
> > get
> > > > much
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
> =====
> Regards
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
> http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you could get 2 tires you could put them on a regular trailer. Do
a coastdown test with your car with no trailer. Then load up the
trailer to 1/2 a car's weight, and coast down with the trailer. If
you are handy with a welder you could build a 1 wheel trailer and do
the same test.
Coastdown should be low speed to make aero drag negligible (like 20
mph to 10 mph) but not down to 0 mph.
mcar * (v2 - v1) / (t2 - t1) = ucar * mcar * g
(mcar + mtrailer) * (v2-v1)/(t2-t1)
= ucar*mcar*g + utrailer*mtrailer*g
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Richard,
> That's basically what I'm doing, except I only need one tyre, and
> eliminate brake, steering and transmission drag, air resistance,
> driver influence, etc etc. Doing comparisons on the road is OK to
> say
> "these tyres are better than this one" but it's not giving me a
> number
> to put into calculations.
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
see
http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf
pay particular attention to item 20.
it's in Virginia
32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
SAFT PN 017371-000
below is a small excerpt....
Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
CAPACITY
CELL QUANTITY 1
PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT ALLOY
PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG OPENINGS
VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
I would appreciate it if the successful bidder would offer me a hundred or
so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I can't handle that
quantity right now.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
richard ball wrote:
> Good point, Steve. I have some concerns as you do about high speed
> control...
My BEST kids built a vehicle like this; left and right bike wheels,
front and rear centered casters from a shopping cart. They switched the
left/right motors on to steer. It was extremely maneuverable, but
hopeless to get it to travel in a straight line on uneven terrain. They
added a steering tiller to steer the rear caster.
Another option is 4-wheel steering. To turn left, the front wheels turn
left and the rear ones simultaneously turn right. It can be set up so
the rear wheels follow the track of the front wheels, which is handy for
tight maneuvering. Also, you can steer all 4 wheels left at the same
time to crab sideways.
Yet another option is to use the strange hexapod wheels. They've used
them on robots, and some fork lifts. They are hard to visualize, and odd
even with a picture to look at. Imagine two disks mounted on your axle,
a short distance apart. Drill ~6 holes thru both around their rim.
Connect these holes with ~6 little axles. Now you have a "rim" that
looks a bit like a hamster wheel.
Put a little tire on each of these axles. Now instead of one big tire,
you have six little ones. These tires rotate freely on their shafts. Now
if you rotate the main rim with a motor, the whole hexapod wheel turns,
but you go nowhere because the little wheels just spin on their shafts
as they touch the floor.
But now... rotate one of the big disks, so its axles are skewed about
30-40 degrees. Hexapod wheels are used in pairs; skew the one on the
opposite side of the vehicle the opposite way. NOW when you rotate the
wheels, the vehicle moves! The left wheel may want to slip left, but the
right one wants to slip right; they cancel and you move ahead straight.
The tracks it leaves in soft dirt will look like that made by a farm
tractor's tires, with their big diagonal lugs.
Now... rotate the two wheels in opposite directions (one forward, one
backward). Amazingly, the vehicle moves straight SIDEWAYS. You steer by
controlling the differential speed between the left/right wheels. With 4
powered hexapod wheels (2 front, 2 rear), the vehicle can move straight
in any direction, including straight sideways, and turn in place, in
its.
A tracked vehicle can do all this, too. But, the hexapod wheels do it
without scrubbing; without friction, with very low rolling resistance.
Finally, you would think that hexapod wheels "bump" as they revolve. But
by shaping the six small tires properly, they are still "round" and roll
smoothly.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Those are NiFe cells, aren't they? Never heard of anyone using them
in an EV but you could always be the first :)
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:29:55 -0500 (EST), Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT ALLOY
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Evan Tuer wrote:
Those are NiFe cells, aren't they? Never heard of anyone using them
in an EV but you could always be the first :)
some of the TEVans used Eagle-Picher NiFe cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Evan and All,
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Those are NiFe cells, aren't they? Never heard of
> anyone using them
> in an EV but you could always be the first :)
That would be my bet. They are good but tend to
sag a lot under EV loads.
I think they are called edison type cells that was
the type used in the Baker Electics and some still run
their original batts after 100yrs!!!!
Jay Leno's Baker Electric still runs their
original batts in his. He said it got 109 mile range,
45mph but don't know if that's true.
Also were used in the T-vans in a bigger size I
believe.
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:29:55 -0500 (EST), Tim
> Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT
> ALLOY
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
Ok, time to put money where mouth is. I'd be interested in bidding on
this, getting a truck down there, and picking the darn things up. I even
have a hand pallet jack and live in MD (could rent a truck with a gate).
Heck I could pack my E20 in the truck and use it to tow the pallets
around if needed.
*BUT* There is no way in heck that I can handle that many batteries. My
wife would cry, my neighbors would be impressed, and I don't need that much.
So who wants to go in on this with me. Each person commits to bidding
$500 for this lot, if the final auction is less than $500*number of
people we refund the difference. In any case we also split the cost of
the truck evenly and you either fly out to pick up your share, or pay to
have it put into a U store.
Thoughts?
Chris
SAFT PN 017371-000
below is a small excerpt....
Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
CAPACITY
CELL QUANTITY 1
PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT ALLOY
PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG OPENINGS
VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
I would appreciate it if the successful bidder would offer me a hundred or
so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I can't handle that
quantity right now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris, I was just gonna propose the same to you.
Count me in.
Mad Mike Shipway
Baltimore county, MD
21207
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Zach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2005 07:47 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: More military NiCads up for auction
>
> > 32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
>
> Ok, time to put money where mouth is. I'd be interested in bidding on
> this, getting a truck down there, and picking the darn things up. I even
> have a hand pallet jack and live in MD (could rent a truck with a gate).
> Heck I could pack my E20 in the truck and use it to tow the pallets
> around if needed.
>
> *BUT* There is no way in heck that I can handle that many batteries. My
> wife would cry, my neighbors would be impressed, and I don't need that much.
>
> So who wants to go in on this with me. Each person commits to bidding
> $500 for this lot, if the final auction is less than $500*number of
> people we refund the difference. In any case we also split the cost of
> the truck evenly and you either fly out to pick up your share, or pay to
> have it put into a U store.
>
> Thoughts?
> Chris
>
>
>
> >
> > SAFT PN 017371-000
> >
> >
> > below is a small excerpt....
> >
> > Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
> > Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
> > ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
> > TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
> > TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
> > OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
> > TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
> > OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
> > OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
> > SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
> > CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
> > BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
> > PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
> > FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
> > SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
> > AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
> > TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
> > DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
> > LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
> > CAPACITY
> > CELL QUANTITY 1
> > PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT ALLOY
> > PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
> > NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
> > DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
> > CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
> > ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
> > INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
> > PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
> > CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG OPENINGS
> > VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I would appreciate it if the successful bidder would offer me a hundred or
> > so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I can't handle that
> > quantity right now.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm all for that plan too.
Unfortunately, the gov't won't go for it.
These have been classified a hazardous waste, before they will even
release them to *you* they will have to inspect and approve your
storage/handling facility. The quick and dirty plan will never fly.
We will need to come up with a storage facility that can house all of them
for a time period. The facility will need to be inspected PRIOR to being
awarded the bid. The transportation method will need DOT approval. And the
is an end-use certificate that will need to be filled out by someone that
basically is willing to accept ALL responsibility for them.
I just found out though..... you can bid on just the amount you want, for
this particular auction. Notice the auction says 236 packages. If it had
said 1 Lot then it would be an all or nothing bid.
Stay Charged!
Hump
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:01 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: More military NiCads up for auction
>
> Chris, I was just gonna propose the same to you.
> Count me in.
>
> Mad Mike Shipway
> Baltimore county, MD
> 21207
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Christopher Zach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2005 07:47 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: More military NiCads up for auction
>>
>> > 32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
>>
>> Ok, time to put money where mouth is. I'd be interested in bidding on
>> this, getting a truck down there, and picking the darn things up. I
>> even have a hand pallet jack and live in MD (could rent a truck with a
> gate).
>> Heck I could pack my E20 in the truck and use it to tow the pallets
>> around if needed.
>>
>> *BUT* There is no way in heck that I can handle that many batteries.
>> My wife would cry, my neighbors would be impressed, and I don't need
>> that
> much.
>>
>> So who wants to go in on this with me. Each person commits to bidding
>> $500 for this lot, if the final auction is less than $500*number of
>> people we refund the difference. In any case we also split the cost of
>> the truck evenly and you either fly out to pick up your share, or pay
>> to have it put into a U store.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > SAFT PN 017371-000
>> >
>> >
>> > below is a small excerpt....
>> >
>> > Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
>> > Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
>> > ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
>> > TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
>> > TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
>> > OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
>> > TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
>> > OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
>> > OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
>> > SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
>> > CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
>> > BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
>> > PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
>> > FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
>> > SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
>> > AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
>> > TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
>> > DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
>> > LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
>> > CAPACITY
>> > CELL QUANTITY 1
>> > PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT ALLOY
>> > PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
>> > NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
>> > DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
>> > CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
>> > ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
>> > INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
>> > PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
>> > CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG OPENINGS
>> > VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I would appreciate it if the successful bidder would offer me a
>> > hundred or so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I can't
>> > handle that quantity right now.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
