EV Digest 4077
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Used Hawkers
by "Mr23" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: DC/DC Converter manual?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Sick EV Humor Revisited
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) ~OT: Least aerodynamic vehicle ever made?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Big AC motor on Ebay
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Shunt, Fuses and Cable Connectors for sale
by "Jeff Dobereiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) EPIC info
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: EPIC info
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout).
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: NEDRA 100 mph Club Clarification
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Cursit questions (undervoltage lockout).
by "Keith Richtman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've used 3 of these in an Electrak E16 for the past couple of years (bought
at the same time as Lee's first set), and as many know the E16 typically
draws less than 100amps. I've used mine for mowing, pushing snow with the
blade, odd jobs, and running around the yard with one of the kids on my
lap... The voltage stiffness over the floodeds the ET formerly had made it
snappy to drive, and the significant weight drop is easier on the lawn. The
150lbs of batteries is enough for my 1/2 acre lot mowing, and is enough to
clear my 50 foot double wide driveway, and about 100 feet of street from my
driveway to the corner. Plenty for my use.
-Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: Used Hawkers
http://www.industrialliquidators.com/wesell/batteries.html
Are these the same Hawkers everyone likes so much?
$39.95, 51AH, 52lbs.
No; they are Hawker UPS batteries. They would work in an EV, but aren't
really built for high currents.
We bought 12 of them surplus for our BEST kid's EVs about 5 years ago,
and then 4 more two years ago from ABC Electronics in Minneapolis MN.
The price was about half of what these guys want.
They have worked out very well in our application, but we limit max
current to 20-30 amps with a circuit breaker. The ones that haven't been
dropped, run dead and left for 6 months, or charged in the reverse
direction (arrgh... kids!!!) have survived very well.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Bob Bath"
>Hey-- you didn't mention the manufacturer. I have
>one for DCP. What brand is yours? Or, what are you
>trying to achieve with the manual?
I just wanted to see what all it consisted of as far as
hooking it up went. I found a link to some info but the
link was broken:
http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/Converter.html
(Why is the efficiency so "bad" on those converters?)
Here is what I was thinking about:
Along with removing the stock gas motor, also remove the
stock wiring harness. It's old and I don't want to reuse
it. I also want to rewire the car to my liking.
Preliminary setup: 312 or 336 volt pack of Orbitals, PFC
Charger, 2k Zilla, 9" Warp. Some 12 volt DC/DC converter.
I don't want to run an auxiliary battery. I don't want to
use a "chassis ground" for my 12 volt wiring either.
I want to get an aftermarket fuse panel and have it
connected directly to the converter. LED lights all the way
around. Also have the horn, wipers, tach, speedo, and a
couple EV related gauges. That's it.
I'm also wondering about fuse panel "efficiency" if there is
such a thing..
Take a look at this traditional fuse panel for example:
http://www.painlesswiring.com/fuseblock.htm
Notice how it uses crimp on terminals.
Now take a look at this fuse panel:
http://www.americanautowire.com/Products/COMP9.htm
Notice how it uses "spring loaded" terminals like speakers
use.
Here is a video of them in use:
http://www.americanautowire.com/checkitout.htm
How good of a connection would those style connectors make?
How much resistance do crimped on terminals add to a wire?
The thing I like about the terminal less panel is just strip
the end of the wire and plug it in. Nice, quick, clean, and
simple...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Feb 2005 at 18:36, Mike Chancey wrote:
> With the batteries under the chassis
> there should be room under the hood for an on-board generator to extend the
> range as needed.
Unique Mobility built a true hybrid prototype like this for some entity in
Califonia, CARB perhaps, in the late 1980s. At the time there was a
proposal for California to commission the manufacture of some number of
hybrids. It never was clear to me what the fleet was to be used for, but in
any case the project was never carried out.
I got to take a quick look at it. Unique had fitted a Honda genset under
the hood. They used not a Unique, but rather a GE motor (!) for the drive.
I believe they used one of Unique's motors as a generator, though. It was
pretty darn crowded under that hood, IIRC.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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To die for an idea is unquestionably noble. But how much
nobler it would be if men died for ideas that were true!
-- H L Mencken
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On 5 Feb 2005 at 19:36, Don Cameron wrote:
> at 150V
> it will certainly kill you because you will be unable to let go of the
> circuit - your muscles will contract and hold on.
>
I don't want to encourage carelessness, but this is probably an individual
matter, with some people more sensitive than others. I've been bitten by a
144 volt pack, and pulled away (quickly). I've also gotten a hand across
800 volts worth of B+ supply in a tube amplifier, with a nasty burn
resulting but obviously I survived. (I might not have though if I'd gotten
one hand on B+ and the other on ground.)
Bottom line: respect high voltage but don't fear it.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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To die for an idea is unquestionably noble. But how much
nobler it would be if men died for ideas that were true!
-- H L Mencken
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--- Begin Message ---
<<This is it, originally linked to on the EVDL about three years ago-
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/fringengineer.html
Today, out of the blue, I recieved the following email, which appears to be
from the same person/wingnut.>>
Boy, Roy, you hit it on the head when you called him a wingnut! I had not seen
the original post before. Someone have any idea what "Resonant, Vectored
Transmission Applications" refers to?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on Cameron wrote:
Roland, thanks for the great reply. This is very useful information. But
it was not my question
My question was in regards to voltage levels: I have heard that 50 volts
can
**possibly** kill you, but at 150V it will **certainly** kill you because
you will be unable to let go of the circuit - your muscles will contract
and
hold on.
Is there any truth to this? Is 50V as dangerous as 400V? If not, why does
the higher voltage make it more dangerous? Simply because it takes more
insulation to protect from it?
Don
It is how you conduct the current that can/will kill you.
The "one hand behind the back" rule can/will save your life.
"Through the heart" is the one you want to avoid.
Yes... some folks are more sensitive to this stuff than others.
Use one hand only if there is a question.
I have been zapped by 144, 156, and even 240 nominal under charge with a
PFC-50 on Gone Postal. They were all one hand only encounters that enable me
to write about it here. :-0
DON'T let the current run through your body.
IIRC, 48V max is the industry standard for "safe" voltage.
Am I Lucky? Stupid? or what? :^D
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Don Cameron"
>My question was in regards to voltage levels: I have heard
>that 50 volts can
>**possibly** kill you, but at 150V it will **certainly**
>kill you because
>you will be unable to let go of the circuit - your muscles
>will contract and
>hold on.
This might still not answer your question exactly, but this
is my current understanding about this:
Say for example you were holding onto a wire, and it began
to shock you. The muscles in your hand and arm would
contract from getting shocked and you would not be able to
let go and would keep getting shocked. Now say for
example(don't try this), you touched a bare wire with the
back side of your hand. When you get shocked your muscles
will contract and jerk your hand away from the wire. But if
there was enough current, it might kill you so getting away
from it would be moot. With very low current, you still
have control. Take one of those little Duracell(or some
other brand) 9 volt batteries and put the two terminals on
your tongue to test if the battery is still good or not...
http://www.boysstuff.co.uk/Images/prod_center/9volt_lithium_200_51455_74887.jpg
Also, as you have heard a million times I imagine, "it's not
the voltage that kills you, it's the amps". Have a look at
the "Van de Graaf" generator on the bottom of this page that
puts out either 200,000 volts or 400,000 volts and the
picture beside it.
http://www.unitednuclear.com/new.htm
What I am still in the dark about are what are the real life
shock hazards in an EV. For example when I've got 28
batteries that I need to hook up, positive to negative,
positive to negative... And yeah, the tool I'll be using
will be insulated.
Let's say I have the entire car all wired up: motor to the
controller, to the pack and the on-board charger hooked to
the pack and also a 12v converter. Say like every few days
of driving I want to check to make sure everything is tight.
Any shock hazards when I'm touching the terminals, etc?
Does anyone get shocked working on these? Has anyone on
this list ever been shocked or nearly been shocked? Any
stories?
I only have 3 getting shocked stories, non EV related
thankfully:
One time there was this place that had horses and they had
an electric wire that went around by the fence to keep the
horses from getting to close to the top of the chain link
fence and getting scratched up. I took a really long piece
of grass and touch the wire with it. Luckily it was one of
those systems where it just pulses the wire. Anyways it
pulsed and the current shot right up my arm. Luckily I
dropped the piece of grass after I got shocked. Even
better, it wasn't just "ON" all the time and just pulsed..
That satisfied my curiosity with electric fences.
Range: 3 to 5 miles!
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47454
When I was young I had one of those H.O. gauge model
railroad sets. The train derailed in the tunnel, I put my
head down there to peak in the tunnel. The side of my face
touched both rails. Yeah, that opened my eyes! :)
One time I had this not so great extension cord. The end of
it was hard to plug into. I was really pushing hard on this
connector and my fingers slid down the insulated part and
touched the two prongs. That shot straight up my arm like
the electric fence did. I was suprised I was able to get
away from it and that it didn't shock me more then it did.
It doesn't take much to gain a lot of respect for
electricity. It reminds me a lot of being in close quarters
with a snake or a bear. You might think you have the
situation under control, but if you let your guard down, it
might just get you!
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--- Begin Message ---
Is it this?
http://www.getdetails.com/commentary/3for/Cabover.jpg
http://www.seattletruck.com/19904070.JPG
Every time I see one of those going down the highway, it
reminds me of the times I've had to carry 4x8 sheets of
plywood in the wind or on a gusty day. Or when a skydiver
lands on the ground on a windy day and the wind is almost
dragging him across the ground. Or if you've ever been in a
sailboat and seen first hand the power of the wind and how
it reacts to that sail. Or seen one of those "stunt kites"
being flown on a really windy day and the person flying it
trying not to get dragged across the ground.
Also, do the semi truck manufactures not care about
aerodynamics? Look at the huge flat surface this bumper
creates for example:
http://vw.cz/bigtrucks/images/peterbilt%20truck.jpg
http://troitsk.org/sites/elio/peterbilt.jpg
(Sorry about posting off topic, but I currently have no one
else to talk to about these things. Hopefully my last off
topic post. I just had to let this one be said as it's
really been on my mind a lot lately.)
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--- Begin Message ---
From: "David Roden"
>I've been bitten by a 144 volt pack
How did it happen?
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--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Roy LeMeur"
>I have been zapped by 144, 156, and even 240 nominal under
>charge with a
>PFC-50 on Gone Postal.
I'd like to know how so hopefully, the same won't happen to
me. How did you get shocked each time?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 Feb 2005 at 1:01, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> >I've been bitten by a 144 volt pack
>
> How did it happen?
>
I had the pack set up temporarily on the garage floor for testing, with the
end modules positioned so I could easily measure voltage with my DVM (first
mistake). My garage was and is a cluttered mess, and I had a bunch of stuff
taking up floor space in the same area (second mistake). I was squatting
down to connect a cable to the positive end, straddling some sundry junk. I
felt myself starting to lose my balance, instinctively put out my left hand
for stability, and stupidly laid it squarely on the negative terminal of the
battery. When I felt the shock, I jerked and fell backward into the front
of the car nearby, which gave me a bit of a bruise but probably helped keep
the shock from being any worse. I dropped the wrench, which fortunately
ended up under the car (I don't know how) and not on top of a battery.
I hope I'm not that stupid any more.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Cutting the space budget really restores my faith in humanity. It
eliminates dreams, goals, and ideals and lets us get straight to the
business of hate, debauchery, and self-annihilation.
-- Johnny Hart
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--- Begin Message ---
At 07:36 PM 5/02/05 -0800, Don wrote:
I am curious about working with high voltage. I have heard, that at 50
volts it possibly can kill you (given the right circumstances), but at 150V
it will certainly kill you because you will be unable to let go of the
circuit - your muscles will contract and hold on.
So what is the scoop? (besides the obvious: be very careful!)
Hi Don (and all)
It's not the volts, not the amps, its the milliamps. Across (through) the
heart is the - literal - killer. Lots of amps will do mechanical (cellular)
damage and may kill you, too (or cook you if high enough). Since blood is
full of iron and salts and stuff, it is a good conductor, so a shock that
has a path betwen two limbs has a predominance to travel through the heart.
Below a certain current a through-the-heart shock will not stop it. Above
another threshold the heart will contract tight, and restart on current
removal. If you continue to receive a stop-the-heart shock long enough, you
will die.
At current levels in between the not stop and full stop levels, the heart
will go into fibrillation (sp?). That is when the heart trembles instead of
pumping, and keeps on doing so, so you die.
The actual voltage that this occurs at will vary between individuals.
People with thick skin that is dry and low on electrolytes can sustain
quite high voltage shocks without reaching threshold. Others can get a
fatal shock at quite low voltages. I'm told that a US Navy tech having
heard the term 'internal resistance' thought that it referred to people,
and so he stabbed himself through the thumbs with a pair of multimeter
leads - and achieved enough current to kill him from 9V (no-one saw him do
it). Perhaps someone on list can confirm this? (might be a tale, Darwin
awards may have it).
The difference between AC and DC is that with AC the current goes away for
small moments of time 50 or 60 times per second (depending on where you
are). This allows the muscles to move in other (reaction) movements and
perhaps pull off the contact(/s). With DC you may be in a contraction
condition that 'clamps' you to the current path, that you cannot let go of.
So DC can be fatal in circumstances where AC may have allowed a let-go. I
have a tendency to do the 'back of hand touch' to wires that I have any
concerns about - no bites so far, but if there is a live one, the muscle
spasm should pull away.
I've had shocks of varying voltages, mostly DC (the penalty of working on
modern electronics). All of these have been in "safe" directions (across
hand or finger), mostly from picking up things with grounded frames and
accidentally (as if it would be any other way) touching a point that had
voltage relative to the frame.
48V nominal (around 55V actual, full charge for 48V battery) was chosen by
the telephone industry decades ago as a relatively safe voltage. You would
have to be particularly conductive or unlucky to get a lethal shock from
48V. People who do a lot of manual work and have thick skin on their hands
can (if dry) get a hand-to-hand shock from 240V that is only enough to give
them a 'bite' big enough to make them jump.
In a nutshell, voltage wise - 'it depends'. Play it safe, break your pack
voltage down if possible, don't work on pack voltages or mains voltages
when tired. Cover terminals that can have high potential to other points
(particularly if things can be dropped on them or can be lent on).
Be safe.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:49 AM 6/02/05 -0600, Ryan Stotts wrote:
What I am still in the dark about are what are the real life
shock hazards in an EV.
Let's say I have the entire car all wired up: motor to the
controller, to the pack and the on-board charger hooked to
the pack and also a 12v converter. Say like every few days
of driving I want to check to make sure everything is tight.
Any shock hazards when I'm touching the terminals, etc?
Does anyone get shocked working on these? Has anyone on
this list ever been shocked or nearly been shocked? Any
stories?
I haven't got that far yet, so this is just 'from first principles'. You
could try a 60W 110V light globe clipped to frame on one side and a
multimeter probe on the other. Anywhere you want to touch, stick the probe
first. Of course, if you stick the probe on pack B- and touch B+, you'd be
in trouble.
Luckily I
dropped the piece of grass after I got shocked. Even
better, it wasn't just "ON" all the time and just pulsed..
That satisfied my curiosity with electric fences.
Range: 3 to 5 miles!
Aaah, a cute little baby electric fence. Australian 'bull fence' energizers
are designed for fences of 50km (30 miles) and more.
One time I had this not so great extension cord. The end of
it was hard to plug into. I was really pushing hard on this
connector and my fingers slid down the insulated part and
touched the two prongs.
Here in Aus they are making extension leads with shrouds around the sockets
(an office worker was electrocuted by a window blind getting into the gap
between the plug and socket of an extension lead). Also a lot of plugs have
half of each pin (the half nearest the plug body) insulated as well, for
the same reason.
You might think you have the
situation under control, but if you let your guard down, it
might just get you!
A very good observation.
James.
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How about a direct drive setup with a dual shaft motor mounted transversely?
Just need a couple flange adapters and use the original drive axle layout,
they probably could be made out of the existing drive flanges scavenged from
the original transmission. Might have to get a new axle shaft made to use
the existing tripot inner joint but that would be a +, they slide in and out
and would just about eliminate end loading on the motor. Batterys in the
back would be no problem. I have had 1,500 + lbs in my `88 and it handled
the load fine. Beefier rear springs would be easy and one could also add
airbags to help share the load as well. David Chapman.
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--- Begin Message ---
>From: "David Chapman"
>How about a direct drive setup with a dual shaft motor
>mounted transversely?
My only question is at what RPM do 25" tires turn at 60 mph?
Or pick any other tire height or mph if it makes the math
any easier or more relevant. Anyone know how to figure
that? I searched online and all I could find were
"calculators" and tables that needed or included gear
ratios. Not just a formula to figure tire rpm at a given
speed like I was looking for.
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone
There's a nice looking AC induction motor up on Ebay.co.uk
Ebay.co.uk item no 3872399897
Leroy Somer 45kW 415v 3 phase 82amps, 2950 rpm double shaft
It's a bit big for a Mini, or I'd be tempted!
Maybe someone can use it?
No reserve, bidding starts at 45 UK pounds
I have no connection to the seller, just noticed it whilst looking
around & buying more things I don't really need.... ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:21 AM 2/6/2005, you wrote:
>From: "David Chapman"
>How about a direct drive setup with a dual shaft motor
>mounted transversely?
My only question is at what RPM do 25" tires turn at 60 mph?
Or pick any other tire height or mph if it makes the math
any easier or more relevant. Anyone know how to figure
that? I searched online and all I could find were
"calculators" and tables that needed or included gear
ratios. Not just a formula to figure tire rpm at a given
speed like I was looking for.
Try: http://www.csgnetwork.com/tireinfo4calc.html
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Some of the folks who have converted pickups still have carrying capacity.
I believe the easiest minivan to convert would be a Chevy Astro. It uses
the S-10 frame and a lot of the S-10 parts should fit, including a manual
tranny. Just beef up the suspension to handle whatever you want.
My TEVan weighs 5000+ pounds so the Caravan can be modified to handle the
weight, but probably not as easily as the Chevy.
Also, the Ford Aerostar sits on a Ranger chassis, so may be another good
candidate.
Dave Davidson
1993 Dodge TEVan
From: "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 21:29:14 -0800
There was considerable discussion several years ago about converting
minivans. As I recall a big problem is that if enough batteries are
installed to give decent range, then the weight of the batteries will fully
load the van and leave little or no capacity for hauling people or
cargo. What good is a van without capacity to haul people or stuff?
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is there a website or on EV list for Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
is a VW pick up lighter than a nissan or toyota pick up?
Marco Michon Fresno,CA
where the Sierra Nevada Mountians are Hidden(smog)
www.austinev.org/evalbum/487.html
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--- Begin Message ---
Ok, so my dad is really giving me flack to clean off his work bench. I
think some bigger things will be going on eBay, but I have hopes I can sell
these little things via the list or the EV trading post.
50 mv 500 A Deltec Shunt - 16$ Shipped
Two 100 Amp Fuses - 8$ Shipped
Four weird cable connector a jiggys? They seem to be rubber things with
like, holes for cables, and big metal things to hold them in? Pictures
should be at the trading post soon. - 20$ Shipped for all four
-Jeff
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25" tire times( pi ~ 3.1416)/12=ft./rpm=6.545 (magic number for a 25'
tire)
60mph times 5280/60=ft./min.
5280/6.545=806.72268rpm
Father Time
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> >From: "David Chapman"
> >How about a direct drive setup with a dual shaft motor
> >mounted transversely?
>
> My only question is at what RPM do 25" tires turn at 60 mph?
> Or pick any other tire height or mph if it makes the math
> any easier or more relevant. Anyone know how to figure
> that? I searched online and all I could find were
> "calculators" and tables that needed or included gear
> ratios. Not just a formula to figure tire rpm at a given
> speed like I was looking for.
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> fatal shock at quite low voltages. I'm told that a US Navy tech having
> heard the term 'internal resistance' thought that it referred to people,
> and so he stabbed himself through the thumbs with a pair of multimeter
> leads - and achieved enough current to kill him from 9V (no-one saw him do
> it). Perhaps someone on list can confirm this? (might be a tale, Darwin
> awards may have it).
I'm 99.997% certain that this is a Myth. Even though most multimeters are
powered by 9V batteries, this doesn't mean they put out 9V on the test
leads when measuring resistance. If they did, they would end up
destroying lots of expensive equipment. I used to have several hundred
glass-bodied, signal diodes until I wasted about 1/2 of them one day
amusing myself by hooking them directly across a 9V battery and watching
them expire in a brillant flash of light.
I've measured the actual output voltage on numerous meters and have yet to
come across one that put out more than 3V and that was an analog meter.
Every digital meter I've checked put out less than 2V.
I believe it requires about 100ma across the heart to kill you, so that
would mean his "internal resistance", from thumb to thumb, was less than
30 ohms??!!??
Sorry, I don't buy it.
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>>From: "David Chapman"
>>How about a direct drive setup with a dual shaft motor
>>mounted transversely?
>
> My only question is at what RPM do 25" tires turn at 60 mph?
> Or pick any other tire height or mph if it makes the math
> any easier or more relevant. Anyone know how to figure
> that? I searched online and all I could find were
> "calculators" and tables that needed or included gear
> ratios. Not just a formula to figure tire rpm at a given
> speed like I was looking for.
>
>
There are 5280 feet in one mile. Basic geometry states that the
circumference of a circle is equal to Pi (approx 3.14159) * Diameter.
So 25" * 3.14159 = 78.54" = 6.54 feet.
5280 feet / 6.54 = 806.7 revolutions per mile.
At 60 mph you are traveling 1 mile every minute so, that means 806.7 revs
per minute (RPM).
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speaking of dodge caravans...
I know we have some Chrysler EV experts on the list
here. does anyone have any information about the EPIC
vans that Chrysler made (i think/assume they were the
sucessor to the TEVans).
I know of one that may be surplused in the next year,
but i also know it hasn't moved under its own power
for about 1.5 years. Nothing wrong that i know of, it
just didn't get used for a long time and now the
'smart' charger won't start up (it has a big blue,
talking charge made by (i think) lockheed). When you
plug it in, it flashes its lights, you can hear some
relays click but no charge begins. I would like to
troubleshoot but I don't know the first thing about
their interlock circuits and logic etc.
anyway, i am interested in any info that is out there
on these vehicles cause i am hoping against hope that
I might be the recipient when it is surplused.
Maintanence info ? how do the batteries hold up ?
anyone own one ?
thanks,
~fortunat
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
http://my.yahoo.com
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Hello to all,
Marc Michon wrote:
> is there a website or on EV list for Bob Salem's Hot VW pick up
I was surprised to not find it on the EVDL Photo Album :-(
>
> is a VW pick up lighter than a nissan or toyota pick up?
Yes, it is.....way lighter and more compact than any of Nissan, Toyota, or
Mazda (before
it was turned into a Ford Ranger) from the mid 70's on when these all got porky
and
morphed from minitrucks into midsized machines, and still lighter than the
original
minitrucks. Unlike the stout body-on-frame mid 60s-early 70's Japanese
minitrucks that
were designed from scratch as trucks and could haul up to a full ton (early
Datsun PL520
models and special 1 ton Toyota), the little VW pickup is basically a Rabbit
with a big
open top trunk, an all unibody car-like minitruck, no beefy frame, and not as
rough and
tough as the early Japanese minitrucks. Also unlike the other minitrucks, the
VW pickup
retained the Rabbit's drivetrain...no rear wheel drive :-(
When it came on the market, though recognized as a good looking compact
addition to the
then very popular minitruck movement, it soon proved to be a disaster when used
by young
construction guys who would take them to the job site like all the other young
dudes with
their Datsuns, Mazdas, and Toyotas, only to get them stuck in the mud, when
with their
little beds weighted down stuffed full of work gear, their light front end
would simply be
a victim of wheel spin...no traction! Lot's of tales of Datsuns chained up to
the front of
VW pickups to pull them out of a slick situation.
Off the construction site, however, and onto the city streets running weekend
errands to
the Home Depot type stores to get bags of cement, wood for projects, or potted
Rhododendrons, the VW pickup was a slick looking, fun machine with great gas
mileage and
reliable operation. It also, could be turned into a very formidable street
machine with
readily available VW after-market performance parts. With its light curb
weight, you
didn't want to mess with a lowered, fat tired, high hp VW Rabbit pickup!
See Ya.....John Wayland
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Tom Shay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> There was considerable discussion several years ago about converting
> minivans. As I recall a big problem is that if enough
> batteries are installed to give decent range, then the weight
> of the batteries will fully load the van and leave little or
> no capacity for hauling people or cargo. What good is a van
> without capacity to haul people or stuff?
About the same as most of the pickup conversions, or car conversions
that retain their back seat ;^> Most of these are at or near GVWR
before the driver gets in.
Anyway, I suggest Chris get in touch with Randy and Canadian Electric
Vehicles if he is serious about convertine the Caravan. Randy converted
one a few years ago for a local florist, and the vehicle was/is used as
a delivery van, so it has some capacity left to haul stuff (though
admittedly flowers are not the heaviest cargo around ;^).
Cheers,
Roger.
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Fortunat Mueller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I know of [an EPIC] that may be surplused in the next
> year, but i also know it hasn't moved under its own
> power for about 1.5 years. Nothing wrong that i know
> of, it just didn't get used for a long time and now
> the 'smart' charger won't start up (it has a big blue,
> talking charge made by (i think) lockheed). When you
> plug it in, it flashes its lights, you can hear some
> relays click but no charge begins. I would like to
> troubleshoot but I don't know the first thing about
> their interlock circuits and logic etc.
I saw a lot of these sitting at Chrysler's proving grounds in AZ. I'm
not sure if it would also keep the charger from starting up, but you
might try boosting the 12V system battery. The 12V battery will go dead
if the vehicle is left sitting for any length of time, and this will
prevent the vehicle from 'starting' even though the traction pack is
fully charged. Perhaps it can also prevent the charger from starting
(lack of 12V power prevents some interlock relay(s) from closing)?
Also, there is a main disconnect which, if I recall correctly, is under
one side of the body. It was apparently a common prank among the
Chrysler guys to open the disconnect and then see how long it took the
next person to use the vehicle to figure out why it wouldn't start. If
the vehicle has been sitting this long, perhaps someone opened the main
disconnect deliberately, and no one else remembers now.
Good luck with 'inheriting' this vehicle; they are a great EV!
Cheers,
Roger.
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I have a question concerning the following
Curtis 1231-8601, 96-144V, 500A
Is there an undervoltage lockout, and if so
at what voltage.
I would like to use this model on my
golfcart (it has 8 Saft STM-180 NiCd batteries).
Thanks,
Rod
Otmar, (or anybody else that knows)
How close is the model above to the schematic
that you posted on your site?
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The 100 mph Club is obviously working. It's instilling competition and
discussion which is what we need.
>From my perspective and that of NEDRA's the more watt rod EVs we have out
>there the better.
I don't quite agree with Rich that we should wipe the slate clean every year.
To me, as kind of a PR person promoting electric drag racing, having those 100
mph club entries up on our web site is an important tool in promoting the fact
that EVs are not glorified golf carts.
We get people from all over the world who check out the NEDRA web site so this
is very important.
Its cool to have maybe a running competition amongst ourselves to wipe the
slate clean but I truly believe we need to do whatever we can to say to the
world we have EVs that have gone over 100 mph whether it was 10 years ago, 1
year ago or last month and have it documented as it is today.
It's a common question we all get asked. "How fast can it go?" If someone asks
you that, and your EV can go up to 70, 80 or 90 mph and people just say "Oh",
we can say, "If you want to see some EVs that can go over 100 mph check out
the 100 mph Club on the NEDRA site".
I'd really like to see Rich and Goldie as a member of the 100 mph Club and I'd
like to see him in it this year! And once he's in, he's in for as long as NEDRA
exists.
And I agree with Dave that the Maniac Mazda needs to come out of retirement.
See ya,
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
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Curtis specifies an undervolt cutback at 64V in their datasheet.
<http://www.curtisinst.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cProducts.DownloadPDF&file=1231C%2Epdf>
Keith
Rod Hower said:
> I have a question concerning the following
> Curtis 1231-8601, 96-144V, 500A
> Is there an undervoltage lockout, and if so
> at what voltage.
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Lets see.. now Wet floor, no negative side contactor..... and who knows What
Roy was doing to WHAT parts of Gone Postal.
Clearly he was working on the EV with the charger on...
Even I don't do that to Goldie.
I did mangage to discharge the DC buss ripple caps on a PFC50 last week. 300
VDC hurt rather much!
It was AC off, the DC side had been discharged.... But.. the AC Caps are
inside the rectifiers and up stream of the IGBTs... so they don't bleed off
very fast.
I had a hot cap, and I was feeling for where the hot spot was... and the
Buss bars where still hot in other ways....Ouch!
This was My old #1 PFC50 it has Elcon 30 series caps in it. We have not used
them since about # 10. We are on #30 now. So this condition is NOT very
common.
I have been meaning to upgrade that cap for years.. but it still works...I
am just worried...abit. This unit ate a module in testing about Christmas
time, I up graded the PCB from Rev3 to Rev 7... so it does not eat $80 parts
anymore... and the Caps still need up grading.. but that takes a new set of
copper bars.. Dad gets to do the pretty copper work.
I have not been bitten in the Lab with my chargers for years before this
Stunt... It sure is a Dire reminder to stay respectfull of all the Juice
that I push around on a daily bassis.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: High Voltage - let go!
> >From: "Roy LeMeur"
>
> >I have been zapped by 144, 156, and even 240 nominal under
> >charge with a
> >PFC-50 on Gone Postal.
>
> I'd like to know how so hopefully, the same won't happen to
> me. How did you get shocked each time?
>
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