EV Digest 4080
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Once a rolling science project always a rolling science project...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) February NBEAA meeting announcement
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Source for GE motor brushes?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: More military NiCads up for auction
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Once a rolling science/ Pro ev batts
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Converting a Dodge Caravan
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: GE forklift "EV100" controller on Ebay
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Dyno Was: WarP 11 and 13 questions
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Realistic Cooling Was: ETEK problem found.
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) RE: High Voltage - let go!
by "johnk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: High Voltage - let go!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/7/05 2:14:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<
Isn't the tire growth due to spinning at high RPM?
If you dyno at the same RPM, shouldn't the gro >>
Yes the tire growth is due to spinning the tires at hi rpm.I would think the
tire growth is not nearly as great on the chassis dyno. We have a very
recent picture of the current eliminator crossing the finish line with over 2
inches of tire growth and a very distorted back end of the tire.I sent this
picture to Rich Rudman(cost me 20 bucks) to post on the ev album,its one of the
best shots ever of the CE,with all its new graphics.The tires in the static
position hang over the rims almost 3 inches.The tires would grow another 2 in.
with speeds in excess of 150. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Final testing underway and going in production as we speak...
To fit on Kokam cells it its better to re-shape PCBs a bit, but
this is not a requirement.
Victor
ProEV wrote:
Of course, this is all just playing with numbers until a solid BMS is
available. Victor? Rich? Lee?
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone
In my hunting around for more stuff I don't need,
I noticed this has just come up on Ebay here in the UK.
I can't make out the details in the photo of the
test report, but did notice a big "EV100" sticker
in one of the photos.
Anyone know any more about this controller?
Is it worth buying, even if just for the bits?
( there's a few nice contactors in there! )
Ebay.co.uk item no. 3872636279
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
( I'm now waiting for DHL/HM Customs to give
me my shiny new PFC30 that Rich Rudman sent over.
It's so close....yet so far away... it's torture! ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Isn't the tire growth due to spinning at high RPM?
> If you dyno at the same RPM, shouldn't the growth be the same?
Envision a top fuel dragster doing a burnout; you've probably noticed
how the rear of the vehicle lifts up as the tires grow.
On a chassis dyno, the vehicle is restrained from moving forward by
tether straps that attach between the rear of the vehicle and the shop
floor. These straps will counter the tendency of the vehicle to lift
freely as the tires try to grow with RPM, which may cause the amount of
tire growth to differ between the dyno and real world.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter and all,
Sustained 5mA through you is enough to kill you! Not 100 mA.
Please don't test this.
Victor
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I believe it requires about 100ma across the heart to kill you, so that
would mean his "internal resistance", from thumb to thumb, was less than
30 ohms??!!??
Sorry, I don't buy it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all EV'ers
Here's the info on the "Kyoto Day" event which will
be our Feb NBEAA get-together.
There will be "Sushi gatherings" at four restaurants
in the area organized by Climate Protection Campaign and
the North Bay Chapter of the Electric Auto Association
to celebrate the Kyoto treaty going into effect (well
for most of the world, anyway)...
Osake rest. in SR,
Sushi Tozai in Sebastopol,
Kyoto rest. in Rohnert Park and
Kabuki rest. in Petaluma.
We'll be having show'n'tell of EVs and other AFVs at
Osake Restaurant in Santa Rosa, and we are hoping that other
"green" organizations will participate, but please feel
free to show off your greenhouse gas reduction technology
at any of the locations! Hosts will be local government
officials, for example in Santa Rosa, Steve Rabinowitsh
will be "hosting".
For participants, the date is
February 16th, from 7-9pm,
please call ahead for reservations and identify yourselves
as part of the Kyoto celebrations and 20% of your tab will
go towards Climate Protection Campaign and the Community
Clean Water Institute.
Contact info for EV show'n'tell:
Osake Restaurant, 2446 Patio Court (Montgomery Village),
Santa Rosa, CA95405. Tel: (707) 542-8282
If you have any ideas for other locations, activities,
press/media coverage, etc., please let Nick Carter
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) or
Ann Hancock ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) know asap!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My basic EVA style S-10 conversion has about 500 pounds of 'official'
capacity left as I recall. Not as good as a stock truck but still
usefull. I have often carried lumber etc with no problems, and about 500
pounds of electric tractor (ie an Elec-Trak w/out batteries) on a 200
mile trip. For shorter trips (~ 10 miles) I have carried 900 pounds of
tractor (ET with batteries) with the truck feeling a little weird as top
heavy and carried 1/2 ton loads of gravel or compost with no problems.
Well, the gravel chipped the paint but no mechanical problems.
Steve down in Florida uses his electric truck to carry his landscape
equipment... I'm not sure what the total weight is (or maybe he pulls it
in a trailer?)
Tom Shay wrote:
Converted pickups do have poor load carrying capacity. My Ranger pickup
is an example. With 20 T-105 batteries its unloaded weight was almost 200
lbs over the manufacturers specified gross weight. With its beefed up
springs, tires and rear axle, I considered it adequate for hauling two
> people and a few small things. I never did try to haul more than
> about 200 lbs payload.
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Goody
That was a little longer than my OK
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: Source for GE motor brushes?
> >Otmar,
> >
> >I just recently had to find brushes for my Elec-trac GE sep-ex motor.
> >I called Repco, talked to Scott Tussey, and he dug up the right
> >brushes for me. He was VERY helpful and knowledgeable. He said he's
> >been selling brushes since '72. I highly recommend him:
> >
> >http://www.repcoinc.com
> >Repco Inc.
> >6 Eves Dr,
> >Marlton NJ 08053
> >Scott Tussey
> >1-800-822-9190
> >
> >Hope this helps
> >
> >Markus
>
> Thanks a bunch Markus,
> Your lead turned out to be the best one for me.
> I just ordered a set of brushes from Scott, he was very knowledgeable
> about them.
>
> If anyone needs brushes, these guys know their stuff and had the best
> prices as well.
>
> --
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The TEVan manual lists GVW as 5900 pounds, with payload capacity of 5
passengers plus 50 pounds, or 840 pounds total cargo capacity. The front
struts, springs, spindles are unique to the TEVan. The rear suspension uses
AWD front mounts, custom springs, and a reinforcement plate between the AWD
rear mounts and the chassis.
TEVans are standard short Caravans, but they sit about 2 or 3 inches higher
than a regular Caravan. You can certainly tell when getting in and
out. Some of that is certainly due to the larger wheels and tires, but
some has to be the suspension. The battery pods are placed to sit up
against the floor between the cross member sections of the floor.
If I still had mine I would measure the ground clearance, but Rod has it
now so I will leave it to him.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did not see anybody named on LeRoy on the sale list .
Can you provide a link or a number...
Mike G.
Reverend Gadget wrote:
Does anybody have any idea of how many cells are
available?
Gadget
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is anybody interested in making a group buy on
these?
I need about 200 cells..
Mike G.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
see
http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf
pay particular attention to item 20.
it's in Virginia
32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
SAFT PN 017371-000
below is a small excerpt....
Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item
Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
CAPACITY
CELL QUANTITY 1
PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT
ALLOY
PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG
OPENINGS
VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
I would appreciate it if the successful bidder
would offer me a hundred or
so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I
can't handle that
quantity right now.
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back in 1995 I had a test drive in the Epic at the
Chrysler proving grounds in Auburn Hills, MI. We went
up the
biggest grade on the test track (which was the largest
proving grounds in the world at the time). There was
4 adults in the
Epic and it took the hill with impressive hill
climbing ability. Coming back down was scary, this is
a steep grade!.
So much for the EV mandate, this Epic was very
impressive.
Rod
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Chris Zach wrote:
>
> > This might mean I could convert it to electric.
> Has anyone ever
> > converted a Caravan, thoughts on battery placement
> and what kind of
> > adapter could fit the 3 speed transmission?
> >
> > Chris
>
> Chrysler did:
>
>
http://www.autointell-news.com/news-2000/May-2000/May-23-00-p4.htm
>
> Here are the specs:
>
> http://www.metricmind.com/misc/epic.pdf
>
> Victor
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OOPs I just reread the sale list ans saw his name at the begining.....
M.G. wrote:
I did not see anybody named on LeRoy on the sale list .
Can you provide a link or a number...
Mike G.
Reverend Gadget wrote:
Does anybody have any idea of how many cells are
available?
Gadget
--- "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is anybody interested in making a group buy on
these?
I need about 200 cells..
Mike G.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
see
http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf
pay particular attention to item 20.
it's in Virginia
32,096 pounds of aircraft NiCad cells.
SAFT PN 017371-000
below is a small excerpt....
Characteristics Data for 6140-00-881-6887 Item
Name: BATTERY,STORAGE
Requirement Statement Clear Text Reply
ITEM NAME BATTERY,STORAGE
TERMINAL QUANTITY 2
TERMINAL TYPE TAP-SCREW
OVERALL LENGTH 3.135 INCHES NOMINAL
TEMP RATING -22.0 DEG FAHRENHEIT
OVERALL HEIGHT 9.400 INCHES NOMINAL
OVERALL WIDTH 1.390 INCHES NOMINAL
SEPARATOR MATERIAL PLASTIC
CASE MATERIAL PLASTIC
BATTERY ELECTROLYTE ALKALINE
PORTABILITY METHOD ANY ACCEPTABLE
FORDING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
SUBMERSIBILITY NONSUBMERSIBLE
AMPERE HOUR CAPACITY 34.00
TIME CAPACITY IN HOURS 2.00
DISCHARGE TIME IN MINUTES 1.0
LOW TEMP AMPERE HOUR 12.00
CAPACITY
CELL QUANTITY 1
PLATE MATERIAL NICKEL-IRON COBALT
ALLOY
PLATE QUANTITY PER CELL 31
NONSPILLING FEATURE NOT INCLUDED
DISCHARGE RATE IN AMPS 772.00
CHARGE INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
ELECTROLYTE LEVEL INDICATOR NOT INCLUDED
INTEGRAL CHARGING FACILITY NOT INCLUDED
PLATE TYPE POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE
CASE DESIGN TYPE FILLING PLUG
OPENINGS
VOLTAGE IN VOLTS 1.2
I would appreciate it if the successful bidder
would offer me a hundred or
so cells at cost :-). I was going to bid, but I
can't handle that
quantity right now.
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 10:27 AM
Subject: Maniac Mazda more Street than White Zombie? OT: Zombie Range
> John Wayland wrote:
>
>
> Whoa, 35-40 miles range? At what speed? At acceleration
> enough to keep up with traffic?
>
This seems quite beleavable , but how about some numbers , at 50 mph how
many amp dose it pull.
> Those tires are anything but low rolling resistance, and
> with no transmission, you're going to be guzzling amps like
> hell just to get the thing moving.
not with the two motors in series , But as the car has had both tranny and
no tranny , any info on what is the most eff.
Not only that, but if I
> remember correctly, the car can only make one 1/4 mile pass
> before it runs out of juice?
>
but a fast one , this dosn't count , although I'd be interested to know the
ah used my guess it less that 10 ah .
Steve Clunn ,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a TEVan being parted out in Vail Colorado as we speak. I believe
it HAD the NiFe batteries.
I'll look up his e-mail address and forward it when I get home.
Jim - 93 Dodge TEVan
(20K miles and counting)
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>From: "Rod Hower"
>Coming back down was scary, this is a steep grade!
Hmm.. That makes me wonder about EV's in mountainous areas.
In a gas powered vehicle, the transmission can be put in a
lower gear and use "engine braking" on decent so the brakes
don't get burnt up / catch fire. How does an EV handle a
mountain decent?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm, odd that they would pick 5ma as the limit for GFI circuit breakers,
since this is supposed to be a "Safe" level.
If fact according to this website:
http://campus.umr.edu/smartengineering/mands/electricshock.html
5ma is barely noticeable, just below "Mild Sensation"
10ma causes Pain
20ma Muscle paralysis
50ma Breathing stops
100ma Almost certain death
But, hey, they are only a university website, so what do they know. The
fact that these numbers kive with my memory from text books is also
irellevent, I guess.
Hmm, interesting, they also state that AC current is 5 times more
hazardous than DC current (stronger muscle contractions, lowers skin
resistance, etc.)
P.S.
In response to Lee, the fact that you once read on a website, that someone
else supposedly sent an email, stating that they once read a safety
report, etc. etc. Isn't really proof either. The internet is FULL of
nonsense and outright lies.
The Darwin story is here:
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html
Note it says "Unconfirmed" and the math doesn't seem to work out.
I'm not even sure the Simpson 260 can source that much current on the test
leads. Anyone have a Simpson 260? How much current does it put out went
set to the x1 ohms scale?
> Peter and all,
>
> Sustained 5mA through you is enough to kill you! Not 100 mA.
> Please don't test this.
>
> Victor
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>
>> I believe it requires about 100ma across the heart to kill you, so that
>> would mean his "internal resistance", from thumb to thumb, was less than
>> 30 ohms??!!??
>>
>> Sorry, I don't buy it.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good question. I have come down small mountains in MD using regen on the
Prizm; it allows one to maintain 60mph down a mountain grade with over
100 amps (30kw) of charging to the batteries. Of course going up the
grade you will be pulling 120-140amps constant.
The biggest problem with regen is that if the batteries are full it
doesn't work.
Chris
Ryan Stotts wrote:
From: "Rod Hower"
Coming back down was scary, this is a steep grade!
Hmm.. That makes me wonder about EV's in mountainous areas.
In a gas powered vehicle, the transmission can be put in a
lower gear and use "engine braking" on decent so the brakes
don't get burnt up / catch fire. How does an EV handle a
mountain decent?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's a GE SCR control, I'm guessing it's for
a dual motor forklift control, either 36 or 48V.
You could use the contactors for other EV projects if
you have 24, 36 or 48V for the coil.
GE uses a PWM control for the contactors with current
limit, so it's difficult to tell what the coil voltage
is in this application.
Rod
--- Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> In my hunting around for more stuff I don't need,
> I noticed this has just come up on Ebay here in the
> UK.
>
> I can't make out the details in the photo of the
> test report, but did notice a big "EV100" sticker
> in one of the photos.
>
> Anyone know any more about this controller?
> Is it worth buying, even if just for the bits?
> ( there's a few nice contactors in there! )
>
> Ebay.co.uk item no. 3872636279
>
>
> Richard Bebbington
> electric Mini pickup
>
> ( I'm now waiting for DHL/HM Customs to give
> me my shiny new PFC30 that Rich Rudman sent over.
> It's so close....yet so far away... it's torture!
> ;-)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Testing is going well. The Kokam/EaglePicher batteries are doing
everything
> we ask of them.
>
> Let see. Your bike weighs 500 Lbs. From the pics, it looks like Saft
100's.
> If so, they weigh 30 lbs each, so that
> should be about 240 lbs. of batteries and 260 lbs of Bike.
>
> So replaced those with 12 of the 40 amp-hr Kokam/EaglePicher at 1.76 lbs
> each for a
> total of 21.12 lbs. That will save you around 220 lbs.
>
Glad to hear this , I'm just as excited about EV's that go far as those that
go fast , and think about Victor's car with 300v 70ah pack that weights how
much?
I asked Jon the web master of www.grassrootsev.com about having a web page
for ev's that have gone more that 100 miles on a charge , a spin off of the
100mph club , he liked the idea and will do it , . Any ideas on how to make
this turn out ? anyone with an ev that has gone over 100 miles on a charge
can send the info to Jon or me , e mail is on the web site.
> >
> Of course, this is all just playing with numbers until a solid BMS is
> available. Victor? Rich? Lee?
> >
> > I'm sure hoping that the guys at ProEV have good luck with those big
Kokam
> > LiPoly cells, as right now that is the only battery I see with potential
> > to make my EM everything I want it to be. In the meantime though I am
> > delighted to have something that is not perfect, but still a lot of fun!
> >
> > damon
> >
Well said ,
steve clunn
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't plan on doing any personal testing, but
I researched electrocution in my engineering college
library when I was really bored.
They actually tested 'let go' current on college
students that must have been cash poor.
Women tended too not let go around 12 mA, males around
17 mA. Of course this depends alot on size.
Ventricullar fibrulation occurs around 100mA as Peter
stated, this is when the heart stops. Much higher
current will burn the current paths, I.e your nervous
system etc but not necessaraly stop the heart.
Voltage? this doesn't mean much, it depends on the
dielectric breakdown between your contant point and
the exit point for the current. If your hot and
sweaty and you have a good connection to ground the
voltage will be much lower to kill you. The skin is a
dielectric and once this path is broken the current
will flow through the nervous system and any other low
resistance path to ground. I think the best rule is
to use the one hand behind the back rule with
insulated shoes.
Keep your hands clean and use rubber gloves.
Respect electricity, don't fear it.
Comman sense tells me getting in to my car and driving
to work is far more dangerous than almost any other
activity I'm involved in, most people don't think
about this. Get on the cell phone and drive? probably
the most dangerous thing you can do, I think I'll go
sky diving...........
Rod
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter and all,
>
> Sustained 5mA through you is enough to kill you! Not
> 100 mA.
> Please don't test this.
>
> Victor
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
>
> > I believe it requires about 100ma across the heart
> to kill you, so that
> > would mean his "internal resistance", from thumb
> to thumb, was less than
> > 30 ohms??!!??
> >
> > Sorry, I don't buy it.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The TEVan is sitting in a heated motor home
garage at the father-in-laws house.
I'll do some measurements this weekend.
I will say that I've bottomed out on many speed
bumps in parking lot's, but that was on Chryslers
dime.
I drive mine much slower!.
Just heard the father-in-law on the amatuer radio.
One of his motor home buddies picked up a 800,000
dollar motor home and had to buy a 'small' motor home
to tow so he could go to those hard to obtain sites
with a 800,000 dollar motor home. I was amused by
this, a motor home towing a motor home. And the oil
is burning faster..........
Rod
--- Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The TEVan manual lists GVW as 5900 pounds, with
> payload capacity of 5
> passengers plus 50 pounds, or 840 pounds total cargo
> capacity. The front
> struts, springs, spindles are unique to the TEVan.
> The rear suspension uses
> AWD front mounts, custom springs, and a
> reinforcement plate between the AWD
> rear mounts and the chassis.
>
> TEVans are standard short Caravans, but they sit
> about 2 or 3 inches higher
> than a regular Caravan. You can certainly tell when
> getting in and
> out. Some of that is certainly due to the larger
> wheels and tires, but
> some has to be the suspension. The battery pods are
> placed to sit up
> against the floor between the cross member sections
> of the floor.
>
> If I still had mine I would measure the ground
> clearance, but Rod has it
> now so I will leave it to him.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at:
> http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at:
> http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
This Epic had regen, so assuming the batteries
where not full, it had plenty of capacity to
pump energy back in. I suppose this would be a
problem
if your house was on top of a very big hill.
Rod
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >From: "Rod Hower"
>
> >Coming back down was scary, this is a steep grade!
>
> Hmm.. That makes me wonder about EV's in
> mountainous areas.
> In a gas powered vehicle, the transmission can be
> put in a
> lower gear and use "engine braking" on decent so the
> brakes
> don't get burnt up / catch fire. How does an EV
> handle a
> mountain decent?
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Steve down in Florida uses his electric truck to carry his landscape
> equipment... I'm not sure what the total weight is (or maybe he pulls it
> in a trailer?)
>
>
I have a trailer and probable less than 100 lbs on the ball , but total
weight of all (truck 4400 ) is around 6000 ,
I've loaded it down with lots of batteries many time ( for other cars ) ,
but I then drive slow.
> Tom Shay wrote:
> > Converted pickups do have poor load carrying capacity. My Ranger
pickup
> > is an example. With 20 T-105 batteries its unloaded weight was almost
200
> > lbs over the manufacturers specified gross weight. With its beefed up
> > springs, tires and rear axle, I considered it adequate for hauling two
> > people and a few small things. I never did try to haul more than
> > about 200 lbs payload.
my old ranger started with 20 golf cart bats then when I put a t rex in it I
cleaned up my yard of batteries and put them in the back , just to try it ,
added another 18 , had them pushed up close to the cab in the bed , and was
quite happy with the way it rode , but I didn't drive it over 45 mph and
had bigger springs on it . There is a big difference between what's safe at
45 mph and what safe at 65. the truck had better pick up with the 20
batteries though. I did use this for the lawn business also , which was
probable close to 7000 lbs ,
Steve Clunn
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> 1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
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--- Begin Message ---
> I suppose this would be a
problem
if your house was on top of a very big hill.
I'm beginning to think that every EVer lives on top of a steep hill.
Regen won't help you going out, and climbing that last hill on the way
back really puts the edge on your batteries (I live on top of a 30
second 30kw hill)
Kind of like the 50 foot tree that grows at the end of every runway in
the US :-)
Chris
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, regen is natural solution for mountain areas.
Christopher Zach wrote:
Good question. I have come down small mountains in MD using regen on the
Prizm; it allows one to maintain 60mph down a mountain grade with over
100 amps (30kw) of charging to the batteries. Of course going up the
grade you will be pulling 120-140amps constant.
The biggest problem with regen is that if the batteries are full it
doesn't work.
Chris
You have to plan your route - if you leave on the mountain and heading
to work downhill every morning, you should deliberately NOT to charge
your pack completely overnight, so that the battery can accept full
regen ALL the way down. Of course, regen is no substitute for charging
(no profile, etc) so at the bottom of the hill the battery must still
be not quite full; else it will require low current equalizing and
indeed you will loose your regen.
Victor
'91 ACRX something different
p.s. Haven't changed brake pads since 1996 even though converted
to AC setup in 1999. Nearing anniversary of 50,000 electric miles,
most of which with regen...
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--- Begin Message ---
At 10:37 PM 7/02/05 +0000, Richard Bebbington wrote:
Hi everyone
In my hunting around for more stuff I don't need,
I noticed this has just come up on Ebay here in the UK.
I can't make out the details in the photo of the
test report, but did notice a big "EV100" sticker
in one of the photos.
Anyone know any more about this controller?
Is it worth buying, even if just for the bits?
( there's a few nice contactors in there! )
Ebay.co.uk item no. 3872636279
Hi Richard (and all)
What I could make from the sticker photo would indicate Battery volts maybe
48, current limit maybe 200. There look to be maybe 8 contactors, which
would seem to indicate two motors/reversing and full throttle bypass.
Want to make a rip-snorter go-cart?
James
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--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps 5mA is a reasonable compromise: if you pick say 1mA, appliances
will trip as soon as the air gets moist or contacts dirty enough.
>10 mA - too dangerous.
100 mA will stop a heart but one don't need to stop it that way to die.
Not the expert in this, but if you grab a wire with enough voltage
on it to cause 5mA flowing through you and unable to release it,
some irreversible electrolysis will likely get you in coma and disrupt
breathing because of the chest muscles contraption, so you may die
from oxygen depletion in a few minutes before heart actually stops.
Not even mentioning dying from secondary inguries when people
gets shocked, loose conciousness and balance and fall head down
on a concrete floor or off ladders and die then. Happens all the time.
Victor
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Hmm, odd that they would pick 5ma as the limit for GFI circuit breakers,
since this is supposed to be a "Safe" level.
If fact according to this website:
http://campus.umr.edu/smartengineering/mands/electricshock.html
5ma is barely noticeable, just below "Mild Sensation"
10ma causes Pain
20ma Muscle paralysis
50ma Breathing stops
100ma Almost certain death
But, hey, they are only a university website, so what do they know. The
fact that these numbers kive with my memory from text books is also
irellevent, I guess.
Hmm, interesting, they also state that AC current is 5 times more
hazardous than DC current (stronger muscle contractions, lowers skin
resistance, etc.)
P.S.
In response to Lee, the fact that you once read on a website, that someone
else supposedly sent an email, stating that they once read a safety
report, etc. etc. Isn't really proof either. The internet is FULL of
nonsense and outright lies.
The Darwin story is here:
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html
Note it says "Unconfirmed" and the math doesn't seem to work out.
I'm not even sure the Simpson 260 can source that much current on the test
leads. Anyone have a Simpson 260? How much current does it put out went
set to the x1 ohms scale?
Peter and all,
Sustained 5mA through you is enough to kill you! Not 100 mA.
Please don't test this.
Victor
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I believe it requires about 100ma across the heart to kill you, so that
would mean his "internal resistance", from thumb to thumb, was less than
30 ohms??!!??
Sorry, I don't buy it.
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--- Begin Message ---
Not exactly a real Dyno, but I ran accross this last night.
http://www.auterraweb.com/
This is the universal OBD-II interface and Palm software
that I use in my Insight. They have a NEW! Dyno Scan!
I'm going to go home and update my old Scan-Only software
to the new Dyno-Scan and see what it will do. They say
that it does engine HP/Torque, 0-60, 1/4 mile, and mileage.
Anyway, I guess it doesn't do much good without OBD,
just thought I'de mention it as yet another method.
Might be cheaper and more accurate than other windshield Dynos.
L8r
Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
Regarding the ETEK and a realistic cooling solution.
Here's an overview of what we've been talking about...
The ETEK heats up fast because it's rotor has little to no mass
with which to absorb the heat. Cooling is a requirement!
It's simple enough to add forced air cooling and there are
various ways to plum the forced air. It needs to be an
external fan for low RPM cooling, and would be ideal to not
waste power running the fan if the motor doesn't need cooling.
The major problem seems to be that it's difficult to
imposible to determine the rotor temperature quick enough
to enguage the cooling fan in time to preven a meltdown.
So, how about using motor current to determine when to turn
on the cooling system! One could build a tunable circuit based
on a shunt (which may already be there to measure Motor Amps).
You could tune the threshold from 50 to 150+ amps. Depending
on your paranoia level or normal non-cooling crusing amps level.
This would ensure that the cooling system is enguaged the instant
that it's needed, when the amps are high and rotor is warming up.
It might continue cooling for some tunable interval after current
falls below the threshold.
I'm thinking it would close a relay for the cooling fan circuit.
Anyone want to take a stab at a circuit to do this?!
L8r
Ryan
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--- Begin Message ---
Greetings,
I hate to come out larkdom, but I'm afraid if I don't say something,
someone might die. NFPA 70E is the national standard for electrical
safety[hard period]. I cannot point you to a link because there is none. If
you want read 70E you must buy it or find a very good library. The best
experts for EV enthusiast are going to be power conversion engineers and
electrical safety officers from the national labs. Not your bother the
electrician or Joe the TV guy. So if you have question about electrical
safety try getting a hold of someone from Sandia, SLAC, LBL, ArGON,
Fermi-lab.
Here are few things you guys have kicked around but to my estimation
didn't
pin down.
The 5mA number is cited in 70E. This is a current it takes to put heart
into fibulation.
High Voltage = 50V and above! Go ahead and work on your 48V buss with
bare
hands, but I wouldn't.
The 10 joule limit. This is the limit for stored energy the tells you
when
to put on your PPE (personal protection equipment). Lets face it a battery
bank = mega joules = safety equipment.
Skin Resistance = 50 ohms typical. the problem here is once skin is
punctured that's it! This is why taking the Simpson meter in the ohms mode
and to sticking the sharp probes in your temples is a bad idea!
Arc Flash Point. This is where your engulfed in a plasma ball that is
ten
times hotter then the sun. For the EVers this should not be an issue but you
need to know that it takes 480v (577 peak) and 10,000 amps to vaporized
yourself. I'm fearful that someday someone will build a EV with 600v motor
and some really fast batteries.
1 amp for one second. This is lower limit for cooking yourself. Not
much is
it? Electricial burns are like radiation burns. The doctor has to wait to
see how much damage there is before he cuts something off.
I have scared you yet? I hope so, because some of you need it. I know
there
are a bunch of really bright people out there. But please don't assume
anything when it comes to electricial safety.
I really think there's a need for a EV builders safety manual and best
practices guide. More and more people will be rolling their own EV's and it
would be real nice if not one of them got hurt. A few bad accidents will set
EVs back decades and invite government interference.
John K
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 8:25 PM -0500 2-7-05, Steve Clunn wrote:
Not only that, but if I
remember correctly, the car can only make one 1/4 mile pass
before it runs out of juice?
but a fast one , this dosn't count , although I'd be interested to know the
ah used my guess it less that 10 ah .
My 914 uses about 4 to 6 ahr at 240V for a quick 1/4 mile run and the
return. (I forgot the actual number but 4.3 sticks in my head) That
gives you a ballpark figure.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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--- Begin Message ---
This seems to be a really good medical research paper on the subject:
http://www.pulpny.org/BiksonMSafeVoltageReview.pdf
They found multiple studies citing as little as 25 mA as a lethal
current (breathing muscles paralysis).
They also comment that it is common for safety standards to go some
factor safer than studies showing lethality levels -- so 5 mA would
be a 5x safety factor below a potentially lethal 25 mA.
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmm, odd that they would pick 5ma as the limit for GFI circuit
> breakers,
> since this is supposed to be a "Safe" level.
>
> If fact according to this website:
> http://campus.umr.edu/smartengineering/mands/electricshock.html
>
> 5ma is barely noticeable, just below "Mild Sensation"
> 10ma causes Pain
> 20ma Muscle paralysis
> 50ma Breathing stops
> 100ma Almost certain death
>
> But, hey, they are only a university website, so what do they know.
> The
> fact that these numbers kive with my memory from text books is also
> irellevent, I guess.
>
> Hmm, interesting, they also state that AC current is 5 times more
> hazardous than DC current (stronger muscle contractions, lowers
> skin
> resistance, etc.)
>
> P.S.
> In response to Lee, the fact that you once read on a website, that
> someone
> else supposedly sent an email, stating that they once read a safety
> report, etc. etc. Isn't really proof either. The internet is FULL
> of
> nonsense and outright lies.
>
> The Darwin story is here:
> http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html
> Note it says "Unconfirmed" and the math doesn't seem to work out.
>
> I'm not even sure the Simpson 260 can source that much current on
> the test
> leads. Anyone have a Simpson 260? How much current does it put out
> went
> set to the x1 ohms scale?
>
> > Peter and all,
> >
> > Sustained 5mA through you is enough to kill you! Not 100 mA.
> > Please don't test this.
> >
> > Victor
> >
> > Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I believe it requires about 100ma across the heart to kill you,
> so that
> >> would mean his "internal resistance", from thumb to thumb, was
> less than
> >> 30 ohms??!!??
> >>
> >> Sorry, I don't buy it.
> >
> >
>
>
=====
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