EV Digest 4099
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Honda, Nissan join suit against CA
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) optima vs flooded
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: hopper cars
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: optima vs flooded...again
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Watering BB600's.
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Watering BB600's.
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Field excitation
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV snow blowers?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: More water dreams...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV snow blowers?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: 1970s Cars
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: optima vs flooded...again
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Battery resting voltage...
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) looking for a RAV4 EV
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
J Mac wrote:
Looks like I need to clarify what I'm looking for.
I need a small electric bike/motorcycle/car that can tow a small trailer
that has a heavy freezer on it, roughly 800 lbs. + the driver. The EV will
make lots of stops & needs to get good mileage per charge.
Any direction & help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mac
Welcome to the EVDL Mac!
You haven't mentioned the speed the vehicle needs to travel at, but assuming
it could be at slow speeds (like a bicycle) the following may be of value.
Googling "recumbent trike" or "recumbent electric trike" can be quite
productive.
The following link can be a great launching point, it provides access to
lots of companies worldwide producing lightweight haulers, with and without
electric assist.
In particular the classification titled "Cargo haulers & Trailers"-
http://www.ihpva.org/SourceGuide/Vehicles/
IHPVA is the International Human Powered Vehicle Association-
http://www.ihpva.org
Also check out-
http://www.christianiabikes.com/english/uk_main.htm
http://www.greenspeed.com.au/
http://www.wizwheelz.com/
and... the state-of-the-art tadpole recumbent.... (you haul it, it hauls
you)--
http://www.windcheetah.co.uk/
You may also want to check out the Yahoo groups "power assist" list-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/power-assist/
One link leads to another! :^D
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:18:04 -0800, "Patrick Maston"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Are you serious??
No, I'm John.
>
>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/14/05 3:33:28 PM >>>
>
>Here's my note:
>
>Thank you for stepping away from your pseudo-econazi persona long
>enought
>to help sue the state of California into some semblence of rationality
>over the global warming fiction and other transportation balderdash.
>
>John
>
>---
>John De Armond
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
one quick thought:
Battery life may be seriously compromised if you reduce the range,
getting deeper discharges each trip.
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I get to work I'll gather togather some info, I work in another
department and aren't up on all the specs
If I remember correctly there are 3 sizes and 3 presure ratings
corresponding to number of plys of corded rubber.
Unlike other bags out there they do no grow in diameter as they are
inflated. I have heard the high pressure units tested to like 900 psi
but 125 will give you a lot of lifting force
I'll get the specs but imagane 7" as 3"radius lifting area and we are
talking 27square inches, thats 27lbs/psi or 3375 lbs of lift per bag,
you will want to turn the pressure down
Perhaps you will need the controller too. It has 18 buttons on it 9 up
and 9 down (left front, right front, left rear, right rear,
front,rear,left,right,and ALL) This will allow you to keep things level
We have made an air jack and my boss used 1 bag to lift his Diesal
Suburban.
http://www.slamspecialties.com/ click on bags and specs to get
pressure charts and inflation heights
Look in catalog to see the controllers
DONT get the big valves! it will hop your batterpack , I have seen
vehicles 4 feet off the ground, under all 4 wheels
get the simple controller with just the 8 outputs
Our demo unit uses a water manifold, used to plum molds :-) ,to mount
the valves on and I thing you will find that scenario perfect for your app.
http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/slamspecdoub.html these guys have
some prices, they are in catalogs and such now. I thought they cost
more, it has been a year since I looked at the prices,
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Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:53:21 +0000, J Mac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looks like I need to clarify what I'm looking for.
>
> I need a small electric bike/motorcycle/car that can tow a small trailer
> that has a heavy freezer on it, roughly 800 lbs. + the driver. The EV will
> make lots of stops & needs to get good mileage per charge.
Ice cream delivery?
Perhaps you need a milk float :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And a Wayland sound system to play the ICE CREAM SONG? LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 7:53 PM
Subject: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
Looks like I need to clarify what I'm looking for.
I need a small electric bike/motorcycle/car that can tow a small trailer
that has a heavy freezer on it, roughly 800 lbs. + the driver. The EV
will make lots of stops & needs to get good mileage per charge.
Any direction & help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mac
= = =
Looking for electric vehicle with good range (50 miles +) & that can tow
around 900 lbs.
Please send suggestions/links/ideas/contacts.
Thanks!
Mac
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doesn't 40 batts at 2600 additional lbs overweight the vehicle? How did you
beef up the suspension & brakes? On my Geo Tracker I had to remove the rear
wheel pressure regulator to get good braking with 20 batts. BTW last night
i put rubber poochees (engine mounts) on my TLGwindpower.com windmill to
reduce lamination flabulation (resonance >25mph). It worked great and is
doing a good job of charging the electric lawnmower and running the solar
system too. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
> Hello to All,
>
> J Mac wrote:
>
> > Looking for electric vehicle with good range (50 miles +) & that can tow
> > around 900 lbs.
> >
> > Please send suggestions/links/ideas/contacts.
>
> Midsized pickup, 9 inch series wound motor, 5 speed tranny, 40, T-105 6V
golf car
> batteries @120V. A real 120 miles range under ideal conditions, 80 or so
under less than
> ideal conditions, and able to tow 4000+ lbs. for 45 miles at 50-55 mph.
>
> See the EV photo Album and check out Red Beastie in the Toyota section:
>
> <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html>
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are they buddy pairs or two strings in parallel?
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
> Hello to All,
>
> J Mac wrote:
>
> > Looking for electric vehicle with good range (50 miles +) & that can tow
> > around 900 lbs.
> >
> > Please send suggestions/links/ideas/contacts.
>
> Midsized pickup, 9 inch series wound motor, 5 speed tranny, 40, T-105 6V
golf car
> batteries @120V. A real 120 miles range under ideal conditions, 80 or so
under less than
> ideal conditions, and able to tow 4000+ lbs. for 45 miles at 50-55 mph.
>
> See the EV photo Album and check out Red Beastie in the Toyota section:
>
> <http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html>
>
> See Ya......John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lower weight will help acceleration a bit. Depends on how light the car is.
Might be doable with a Sentra. Lots of room very light. Might a bypass
contactor help? LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "a.k. howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: optima vs flooded...again
Greetings everyone.
I'm looking for your knowledgeable opinions concerning this possibility.
The candidate: a early 1980's Datsun sedan. It has a 114 volt system
containing 19 T-105 type batteries.
The possiblilities: A new pack of ten 12 volt optima d-31 (75 ah) for 120
volts. Pack would weigh about 600 lbs.
Or putting in a new pack of 19 t-105's weighing about 1200 lbs.
Range is not an issue. Candidate vehicle not expected to exceed 20 miles
before recharging.
Acceleration is very important, to keep up with average traffic,
especially when starting out when a stoplight turns green. Long moderate
grades (3-4 percent) are involved here.
In the summer 110 degrees in the shade is common.
Charger issues have been addressed.
Please do not use cost as a factor here.
Watt do you think. Regards, A.K. Howard in Las Vegas.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I used rubber poochees to eliminate lamination flabulation on my
transformer. Works well on the vacuum pump too (and roof mount windmill).
(wife stopped whining) Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Does Such an Electric Vehicle Exist?
> ... The charger needs divorce papers to come with it (very loud
> transformer)and the vehicle is
> loud at low motor speeds but they are durable and seemingly powerful.
> Lawrence Rhodes.........
>
> Would isolating the transformer with rubber padding or similar material
> help? I assume it is vibrating against a solid metal object.
>
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
> "I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of
elimination"
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Nick,
The resting voltage of Trojans batteries will be about 2.1 volts per cell
after about two weeks of resting!
It is recommended to add only water at the beginning of a charge cycle. If
the batteries are at 50 percent discharge, then eyeball the level at that
time. If any of the electrolyte is below any of the plates, than add just
enough water to get about 1/2 above the plates. NOT TO THE BOTTOM OF THE
FILLER NECK!!
When a battery discharges, the electrolyte will drop and when it is charge,
the electrolyte will rise.
After the charge cycle, than eyeball the level of the electrolyte again. If
it is not up to the bottom of the filler neck, DON't ADD WATER AT THIS TIME.
Wait until you discharge the batteries to about 50 percent and do you
adjustment there.
Adding water on the discharge cycle, the charging will mix the water better.
If you add water at the end of the charging cycle, the water is just setting
on top of the acid.
If a battery sets for a long time with out any maintaining charge, this
seperation will cause the electrolyte at the bottom to be about 1.300
Specific Gravity or greater and the top to be about 1.250 or less.
If your batteries electrolyte is setting at 1.265 to 1.275 and you add water
at the end of cycle, you are than diluting the electrolyte at that time. It
is like mixing sulfuric acid which is about 1.800 SG with water which has a
SG of 1.000 to get 1.300 SG initial mixing which will heat up during this
mixing. The specific gravity will than float down to about 1.275 during
cool down.
So if you add too much or more water than the battery had in initial mixing,
you could be reducing the electrolyte specific gravity below 1.265 at a
correct charge level.
At least once a month, check the level, the specific gravity, the voltage of
each battery and the CELL VOLTAGE OF A BATTERY that may be lower than any
other battery. I don't do all these steps all at once. One month I may
check the level, and the next check the specific gravity and so on.
TO CHECK THE CELL VOLTAGE, I used a 3 volt cell tester made by CALVAN. The
test probes are CAD coated which are about 3 inches long. You insert one
probe in to one cell and the other in a adjacent cell. This reading should
be the same for each cell of the battery.
If your battery cells are unbalanced at more than 5 percent of each other, I
DON'T LET MY CELLS, BECOME MORE THEN 0.02 VOLTS OF EACH OTHER, then you
should do a balance charge of the battery to about 2.6 volts per cell. This
will be 10.5 volts for your 8 volt batteries. I do this balance charge
about once a month, if any of my cells are more than 0.02 volt difference.
Your normal daily maximum charge could be 210 volts for these 168 volt
battery pack, which is about 2.5 volts per cell. Other batteries at a lower
amp hour are normally charge at 2.46 volts per cell.
To increase a cell that has weak specific gravity, after a full charge, you
may have to cook it out by bubbling it out, by overcharging with a balance
charging voltage.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:24 PM
Subject: Battery resting voltage...
> Hi,
>
> I recently watered the 20 Trojan T-875 batteries which are in my Jeep.
> As per Trojan's recommendation, I added water after a charge cycle, and
> used distilled water.
>
> Before the watering, I'd noticed that after the charger would finish,
> the battery pack voltage would fall until it hit about 168 volts, where
> it would rest (no load on the batteries). According to specs, 100%
> state of charge open circuit voltage should be about 8.49 volts per
> battery or 169.9 volts for the pack.
>
> Well, now when the charge cycle ends, I see the battery voltage rest at
> 163 to 164 volts. Even if I disconnect all loads immediately after the
> charger times out, the voltage will fall (fairly quickly) until it gets
> to 163-164 volts. I've also just noticed that the pack voltage seems to
> sag a lot more than it used to under load, and my range has decreased.
>
> Did I do something wrong here? I've now charged the batteries 4 times
> since adding water, and nothing seems to be improving. Maybe this is all
> a coincidence and has nothing to do with my watering the batteries?
>
> P.S. I do still have a Lee Hart battery bridge LED circuit connected to
> the pack while driving. I've yet to see any of the red LEDs light up...
>
> -Nick
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 21:24:22 -0600, Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Well, now when the charge cycle ends, I see the battery voltage rest at
> 163 to 164 volts. Even if I disconnect all loads immediately after the
> charger times out, the voltage will fall (fairly quickly) until it gets
> to 163-164 volts. I've also just noticed that the pack voltage seems to
> sag a lot more than it used to under load, and my range has decreased.
Nick, based on what you told us before, you've almost certainly got
reversed or damaged cells in your pack. That could cause this
behaviour.
Another possibility is that the volt meter you've been using is unreliable.
> P.S. I do still have a Lee Hart battery bridge LED circuit connected to
> the pack while driving. I've yet to see any of the red LEDs light up...
Bad cells should show up here. Are you sure the circuit is working?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
On 14 Feb 2005 at 21:04, Chris Zach wrote:
Are the TEVan watering circuits one long string or a bunch of little ones?
I don't know how the TEVan is set up, but Saft's documentation recommends
limiting voltage across a single watering circuit to 60 volts.
would it not be possible to essentially put a T
fitting on the top of each BB600 cell ...
Scroll to the bottom of this page :
http://www.tokki.org/ev/pages/saft.htm
for a drawing of the Saft watering caps and a description of their
operation.
I knew I'd seen those diagrams somewhere!
I've been looking for that diagram without success, however I did find
another brand, designed for large lead-acid batteries in fork-lifts. It
seems to be functionally very similar to the above Saft system, except
it also has float to moderate the fill rate and an overflow (water, not
electrolyte) path, in case of failure of the other parts. They say it
fails in the too much watering direction, instead of the too dry
direction. But of course they also say it almost never fails.
http://www.phlsci.com/Water_Injectors/water_injectors.html
It also has a nice (mostly) plain english section on the anatomy and
history of VRLA and the use of catalysts in Lead-acid cells.
http://www.phlsci.com/VRLA_Catalyst/vrla_catalyst.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight E.P. (Extreme pressure)
Amsoil doesn't make this oil. Is there a Synthetic that has this spec.?
The book specifies "Axle" for the oil in the differencial. What is Axle
oil? I was going with their recomendation of the 75-90 Gear Lube. Lawrence
Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Scroll to the bottom of this page :
http://www.tokki.org/ev/pages/saft.htm
for a drawing of the Saft watering caps and a description of their
operation.
*nod* That does fix the venting problem. I wonder if SAFT either has a
patent on this design, or if they would just sell the caps in big
quantity. With no moving parts they should be an easy manufacture.
This also explains something about the tradeoff of the BB600's: They
don't have the platinum catalyst for recombination for a reason. If they
had that they would use less water but the recombination would create a
lot of extra heat during charging. Tradeoff is no catalyst=burns more
water but doesn't require so much cooling.
Interesting.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Markus L wrote:
I was toying with adding an electronic field-control circuit to the
Elec-trak E20.
... to be able to slow the tractor using regen. braking. ...
I just hate it when I go down hill and touch the brake just a
bit the tractor actually may speed up ...
As an ET driver it is rather counterintuitive, but when going down a
hill, your best bet is to have it in a relatively low gear and "give it
some gas" with the 'accelerator' pedal. The natural reaction is of
course that pushing down the pedal will make you go faster... but
keeping your foot off the pedal just leaves the motor to freewheel. By
keeping the pedal part way down, the relays/contactors are engaged and
it will let regen occur and slow you down. The unnerving side effect is
that if regen isn't slowing you down enough, when you first hit the
brake pedal you may speed up for a second as the motor/regen drops out
and you wait for the mechanical brakes to catch up.
(This assumes a stock ET... an electronic controller changes all this)
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Hartley wrote:
> The mayor of St-Jerome is very pro-EV,
cool place to live!
The electric snowblower was built by Jean-Marie Dubois, now living near
St-Jerome. It is battery operated, and currently powered by 2 Orbital
12V batteries. ... It has a small traction
motor and a larger blower motor, which can be separately controlled. I
am working with him to develop a controller which implements the
improvements and way of operation covered by his his patent (pending),
to make it very easy for anyone to use, and more efficient.
Sounds nice... so when can we buy one? ;-)
More to the point, how long does it last on those two batteries?
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is a Lee Hart battery bridge LED ? Specs?
Tks
Rush
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
P.S. I do still have a Lee Hart battery bridge LED circuit connected to
the pack while driving. I've yet to see any of the red LEDs light up...
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 2/14/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> would it not be possible to put a T fitting on the top of each BB600
> cell, with a length of tubing going into the cell terminated right
> where the cell is at full water level?
I don't think it will work with a single tube, but some watering systems
are quite similar. They have two tubes to each cell. The lower ends of
the tubes end at the desired water level. The tubes connect from cell to
cell, daisy-chain fashion. You pump electrolyte (not water) in one tube.
When the level is low, only air comes out the second tube and goes to
the next cell. When the cell reaches the desired level, the second tube
touches. All further electrolyte pumped in just passes on to the next
cell.
The process is repeated in the next cell, and the next, and so on to the
end. You keep pumping until liquid comes out of the last cell's tube.
A couple weaknesses: First, you must pump fresh electrolyte, not water.
Otherwise, all the water passing thru the first cell will dilute its
electrolyte until it is useless. So, you have an electrolyte reservoir,
and run the circulation pump until only electrolyte is coming back from
the last cell. Now add water to the reservoir to bring it back to the
'full' mark. Run the pump a little longer thoroughly mix this watered
down electrolyte through all cells.
Second, when the tubes are full of electrolyte, you have a conductive
path from cell to cell. Current flows thru this path. In effect, you
have a resistor between cells. This causes a high self-discharge
current. it's not high enough to be dangerous, but you will have to blow
air thru the tubes when finished so you don't leave that liquid there.
But, this has the advantage that you can run that air pump any time to
keep batteries vented.
This system is used on large cells, such as those in big battery backup
systems with tons of cells.
On smaller systems (like in EVs), they usually add check valves, floats,
etc. to reroute the flow, so you can just pump water to each cell.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
> 20 Trojan T-875 batteries... Before watering, battery pack 168 volts
> (no load on the batteries). According to specs, 100% state of charge
> open circuit voltage should be 8.49 volts/battery or 169.9 volts for
> the pack.
Ok. That all sounds right.
> Well, now when the charge cycle ends, I see the battery voltage rest at
> 163 to 164 volts.
That's only 2.04v/cell. Either the pack is not fully charged, you have a
bad battery somewhere, or there is some load left connected.
I don't think it could be consequence of watering. You would need to
have FAR too much water to lower the voltage this much. I don't think
it's possible to add this much water without it overflowing out the top.
> I've also just noticed that the pack voltage seems to sag a lot more
> than it used to under load, and my range has decreased.
These symptoms also point to either under-charged batteries, or a bad
one somewhere in the pack. (Or, less likely, a broken voltmeter that's
lying to you, and cold batteries due to the winter weather).
> P.S. I do still have a Lee Hart battery bridge LED circuit connected to
> the pack while driving. I've yet to see any of the red LEDs light up...
Good. That tells me there are no dead cells.
But, I think I would check all your individual battery voltages. It
still may reveal a "stinker". Then I'd try a long low-current equalizing
charge, to see if perhaps your charger isn't charging enough.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A patent on battery powered snow blowing?
Oh I think I could claim "prior art" on this one :-)
Chris
Jim Coate wrote:
Doug Hartley wrote:
> The mayor of St-Jerome is very pro-EV,
cool place to live!
The electric snowblower was built by Jean-Marie Dubois, now living
near St-Jerome. It is battery operated, and currently powered by 2
Orbital 12V batteries. ... It has a small traction
motor and a larger blower motor, which can be separately controlled.
I am working with him to develop a controller which implements the
improvements and way of operation covered by his his patent (pending),
to make it very easy for anyone to use, and more efficient.
Sounds nice... so when can we buy one? ;-)
More to the point, how long does it last on those two batteries?
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Valvoline has a Full synthetic Gear Oil - SAE 75W-90 which is call SynPower.
Is for all standard and limited slip hybroid differentials. I also use it
in my standard transmission.
http://www.valvoline.com
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:01 AM
Subject: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
> The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight E.P. (Extreme pressure)
> Amsoil doesn't make this oil. Is there a Synthetic that has this spec.?
> The book specifies "Axle" for the oil in the differencial. What is Axle
> oil? I was going with their recomendation of the 75-90 Gear Lube.
> Lawrence
> Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight EP (Extreme pressure)
> Amsoil doesn't make this oil. Is there a Synthetic that has this spec?
> The book specifies "Axle" for the oil in the differencial. What is
> Axle oil? I was going with their recomendation of the 75-90 Gear Lube.
"Axle" oil is gear lube -- smae thing. And, all gear lubes will have the
EP additives, both regular and synthetic.
I think the AMSoil is 75-90w "gear lube" and is synthetic.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
You can get Mobil 1 synthetic at WalMart for example:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Other_Products/Mobil_1_Fully_Synthetic_Gear_Lube_75W-90LS.aspx
This stuff is interesting. Click on "where to buy" and see
if any place locally to you sells it:
http://www.royalpurple.com/prodsa/mgeara.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:01 AM
Subject: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight E.P. (Extreme
pressure)
Amsoil doesn't make this oil. Is there a Synthetic that has
this spec.?
The book specifies "Axle" for the oil in the differencial.
What is Axle
oil? I was going with their recomendation of the 75-90 Gear
Lube. Lawrence
Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What is a Lee Hart battery bridge LED ? Specs?
It's been published on the EV list numerous times. Basically, it's 3
LEDs and 2 resistors. It makes a bridge that compares the two halves of
a battery pack, and lights if they are more than 2v different. It thus
lights when any cell in the pack goes dead.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's a 1971 Opel GT for sale on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6783&item=
7954424822&rd=1
It's got some body rust. I think these cars weighed slightly over 2000
pounds. 5 days left on auction. Current bid $450.00
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
John Westlund [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> a.k. howard wrote:
>
> >The possiblilities: A new pack of ten 12 volt optima
> >d-31 (75 ah) for 120
> >volts. Pack would weigh about 600 lbs.
> >
> >Or putting in a new pack of 19 t-105's weighing
> >about 1200 lbs.
>
> Neither.
>
> How about 26 Optima D750 yellowtops in series for 312V or
> two strings of 156V in parallel? Would weigh 1,170 pounds.
> You'd have amazing range AND acceleration, regardless of
> whether either is an issue or not.
Nope. You're assuming a blank sheet of paper while a.k. is re-fitting
an existing EV.
Since he is starting with a 114V system, he is most likely looking to a
120V pack to avoid having to replace his controller and DC/DC, etc. with
higher voltage units.
Of the options he is considering, a single string of group 31 Optimas
makes most sense.
Buddy-paired smaller YTs will *hurt* acceleration because of the
increased weight and negligible increase in power (the only power
increase would be as a result of reduced pack sag since it is a pretty
safe bet that any controller originally on a 114V pack of floodeds will
not be more than a 500-550A Curtis, and therefore cannot take full
advantage of a single string of YTs nevermind a buddy-paired string).
By all means avoid buddy-pairs if at all possible; if a group 31 YT will
satisfy the range requirement, then it is a superior choice to a
buddy-pair of smaller batteries.
a.k.: is 120V the maximum pack voltage you can use without replacing the
controller, etc.? (i.e. if your controller & DC/DC will take 144V, you
might want to consider going there). What is the typical current draw
of the present vehicle? (or, how long does the 20mi trip take?) What is
the present vehicle's Wh/mi? (i.e. how many Ah (more importantly, Wh)
does it need for your 20mi trip; will a single string of group 31 YTs do
the trip on about 50% DOD?)
If your max current is relatively modest, then there may be other AGMs
worth considering (or even gels), since with Optimas you may be paying
for peak current capability that you can't use and other batteries are
available in sizes that might offer you the range you need.
Since your range needs are modest, you might even consider a 120V pack
of 8VGCs (15x8V) as a lighter alternative to the 114V (19x6V) pack.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence wrote:
>The Electravan 750 manual specifies 90 Weight E.P. (Extreme pressure)
>Amsoil doesn't make this oil. Is there a Synthetic that has this spec.?
>The book specifies "Axle" for the oil in the differencial. What is Axle
>oil? I was going with their recomendation of the 75-90 Gear Lube.
If they want "axle" oil or "E.P" oil instead of "gear" oil they are most
likely saying they want you to use GL-5 gear oil instead of GL-4 gear oil.
These two ratings are NOT interchangable. Transmissions generally run GL-4
and rear axles run GL-5 (note: always check the book - there are MANY
exceptions.)
My suggestion for GL-5 is Mobil 1 gear oil (full synthetic.) My suggestion
for GL-4 is Redline MTL.
Paul G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
this is just the information I needed to evaluate the status of
my T105s... thank you very much
Markus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Roland Wiench
> Sent: Dienstag, 15. Februar 2005 09:19
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Battery resting voltage...
>
>
> Hello Nick,
>
> The resting voltage of Trojans batteries will be about 2.1
> volts per cell
> after about two weeks of resting!
>
> It is recommended to add only water at the beginning of a
> charge cycle. If
> the batteries are at 50 percent discharge, then eyeball the
> level at that
> time. If any of the electrolyte is below any of the plates,
> than add just
> enough water to get about 1/2 above the plates. NOT TO THE
> BOTTOM OF THE
> FILLER NECK!!
>
> When a battery discharges, the electrolyte will drop and when
> it is charge,
> the electrolyte will rise.
>
> After the charge cycle, than eyeball the level of the
> electrolyte again. If
> it is not up to the bottom of the filler neck, DON't ADD
> WATER AT THIS TIME.
> Wait until you discharge the batteries to about 50 percent and do you
> adjustment there.
>
> Adding water on the discharge cycle, the charging will mix
> the water better.
> If you add water at the end of the charging cycle, the water
> is just setting
> on top of the acid.
>
> If a battery sets for a long time with out any maintaining
> charge, this
> seperation will cause the electrolyte at the bottom to be about 1.300
> Specific Gravity or greater and the top to be about 1.250 or less.
>
> If your batteries electrolyte is setting at 1.265 to 1.275
> and you add water
> at the end of cycle, you are than diluting the electrolyte at
> that time. It
> is like mixing sulfuric acid which is about 1.800 SG with
> water which has a
> SG of 1.000 to get 1.300 SG initial mixing which will heat up
> during this
> mixing. The specific gravity will than float down to about
> 1.275 during
> cool down.
>
> So if you add too much or more water than the battery had in
> initial mixing,
> you could be reducing the electrolyte specific gravity below
> 1.265 at a
> correct charge level.
>
> At least once a month, check the level, the specific gravity,
> the voltage of
> each battery and the CELL VOLTAGE OF A BATTERY that may be
> lower than any
> other battery. I don't do all these steps all at once. One
> month I may
> check the level, and the next check the specific gravity and so on.
>
> TO CHECK THE CELL VOLTAGE, I used a 3 volt cell tester made
> by CALVAN. The
> test probes are CAD coated which are about 3 inches long.
> You insert one
> probe in to one cell and the other in a adjacent cell. This
> reading should
> be the same for each cell of the battery.
>
> If your battery cells are unbalanced at more than 5 percent
> of each other, I
> DON'T LET MY CELLS, BECOME MORE THEN 0.02 VOLTS OF EACH
> OTHER, then you
> should do a balance charge of the battery to about 2.6 volts
> per cell. This
> will be 10.5 volts for your 8 volt batteries. I do this
> balance charge
> about once a month, if any of my cells are more than 0.02
> volt difference.
>
> Your normal daily maximum charge could be 210 volts for these
> 168 volt
> battery pack, which is about 2.5 volts per cell. Other
> batteries at a lower
> amp hour are normally charge at 2.46 volts per cell.
>
> To increase a cell that has weak specific gravity, after a
> full charge, you
> may have to cook it out by bubbling it out, by overcharging
> with a balance
> charging voltage.
>
> Roland
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:24 PM
> Subject: Battery resting voltage...
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I recently watered the 20 Trojan T-875 batteries which are
> in my Jeep.
> > As per Trojan's recommendation, I added water after a
> charge cycle, and
> > used distilled water.
> >
> > Before the watering, I'd noticed that after the charger
> would finish,
> > the battery pack voltage would fall until it hit about 168
> volts, where
> > it would rest (no load on the batteries). According to specs, 100%
> > state of charge open circuit voltage should be about 8.49 volts per
> > battery or 169.9 volts for the pack.
> >
> > Well, now when the charge cycle ends, I see the battery
> voltage rest at
> > 163 to 164 volts. Even if I disconnect all loads
> immediately after the
> > charger times out, the voltage will fall (fairly quickly)
> until it gets
> > to 163-164 volts. I've also just noticed that the pack
> voltage seems to
> > sag a lot more than it used to under load, and my range has
> decreased.
> >
> > Did I do something wrong here? I've now charged the
> batteries 4 times
> > since adding water, and nothing seems to be improving.
> Maybe this is all
> > a coincidence and has nothing to do with my watering the batteries?
> >
> > P.S. I do still have a Lee Hart battery bridge LED circuit
> connected to
> > the pack while driving. I've yet to see any of the red LEDs
> light up...
> >
> > -Nick
> > 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> > http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm finally ready to buy a RAV4 EV if I can find
anyone who wants to sell one.
(Okay, go ahead and laugh now.)
Seriously -- please let me know if you hear of one.
Thanks,
=====
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Vehicle Association
415-681-7731
www.sfeaa.org
There are 941 electric vehicles and neighborhood electric vehicles in San
Francisco (DMV statistics). No gas, no oil, no noise, and no emissions -- no
kidding!
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What is a Lee Hart battery bridge LED ? Specs?
It's been published on the EV list numerous times. Basically, it's 3
LEDs and 2 resistors. It makes a bridge that compares the two halves of
a battery pack, and lights if they are more than 2v different. It thus
lights when any cell in the pack goes dead.
I think this is the circuit in question:
http://www.socalev.com/Main_Frame/upgrades.htm
--- End Message ---
