EV Digest 4108
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Synthetic oil in Tranny & Diff.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Alignment
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Vicor DC/DC - IOTA power supplies
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Stuffing the brains into my variac
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Vespa conversion candidate on eBay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: She's dead Jim
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: She's dead Jim
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: She's dead Jim
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: More water dreams...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: She's dead Jim
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) brushes
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Is Dennis getting bored?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: brushes
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/17/2005 10:06:21 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Supposedly the EP lubes have more sulfur in them, which is corrosive to
the synchronizers in transmissions, and why they are recommended only
for axles.
Patrick
GL5 is an EP lube, and your right, they contain Sulfur and Phosphor
compounds. This is bad for any Transmissions with Bronze Synchros or copper
parts.
In my 1974 TR6 transmission GL4 was recommended because it has no Sulfur or
Phosphorus. In later years Triumph started using steel synchros and I have
heard GL5 is ok for them but I still wonder about bushings. I have no Idea
whether
specific Japanese or American transmissions have bronze bushings or copper
parts in them. GL4 is getting hard to find it seems there is no market for it.
Sta Lube still makes a GL4, it is available through NAPA stores. If you have
an older trans I would go with it. As far as Differential lube these are Hypoid
gears and require an EP lube.
Get the skinny on all your favorite lubricants from the horses mouth.
Roy Howell, Chief chemist Redline, in a page I found at the VTR (Vintage
Triumph
Register) site. Lubricants Notes from Redline
Rick Miller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Leave the rear alone, assuming you can even adjust it. Often there is a
lot of negative camber and a bit of toe in. The front can usually be
adjusted a lot. If you leave the caster alone (assuming that is
adjustable, and it may not be) then 0 camber and 0 toe should roll
well. A slight toe out is dynamically unstable but the torque caused by
tire patch thrust about the lower control arm elastomer bushings should
go a bit toe in, resulting in 0 toe. Might be twitchy on the brakes
that way as you get more toe out. This is as much a feel thing as
anything, espcailly in ruts on the excuses you guys have for road
surfaces out West with very friable asphalt with coarse stone.
Seth
On Feb 17, 2005, at 10:36 PM, Reverend Gadget wrote:
Depends on the manufacturer. I seen some at 0 and up
to 1/8" of toe in. Oval racers actually set their rear
end up off to the side to make use of the effect since
they only turn in one direction while racing.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Interesting. OK, I'll make a note to check rear
wheels
alignment. BTW, do you know if rear wheels must be
set
to "0" toe in (they are adjusted independently) or
what is
the recommended number?
Victor
Reverend Gadget wrote:
This is a common problem. It may be rear wheel
alignment. Have you ever seen a vehicle "crabbing"
down the street? where the rear end is slightly
off
from the front track, driving down the road at a
slight angle. check the rear end, if it is the
problem
it should fix the torque steer as well as the
rolling
resistance. It could be that one rear wheel is out
of
alignment causing the extra drag and the crabbing.
Gadget
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
ACRX normally uses 1Ah/mile, but this is not too
meaningful
for omparison at diferent voltages.
I consume ~200Wh/mile (@ 35mph), which is very
average.
Dragging rear brakes and wrong tires are
contributors to that.
Also, I suspect front alignment needs work and
here
is
the area you may know the answer at:
When I accelerate, the car pulls left a little,
and
when
slowing down using only regen on front wheels -
pulls right.
It doesn't pull at all if I use disk brakes.
Almost like having constant brake or friction
around
left (?) half shaft, so the torque of acceleration
or braking
is not divided quite evenly. Another reason in
theory may be that
the front tires diameters are differnt, but they
are
inflated
to the same PSI so I can't imagine this to be the
case.
Which suspension element or parameter (camber,
caster. etc)
can be responsible for this behavior? Or it is not
suspension at all?
The car is straight, never been in an accident.
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 2/16/05 6:48:04 PM Pacific
Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Or, let's compete who sips less Wh per 1/4
mile
provided
minimum speed is maintained. I WILL participate,
because put
efforts to optimize ACRX in that res >>
Hi Victor what would you suppose your amp hr used
in the qt.mi is?And what is
your car weight?The CE uses 1.1amp hr per qt.mi
run including the drive to
the lanes and back from the time booth.It weighs
1383lbs with me in it.Dennis
Berube
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I've never heard of any heat engine hitting 52%, do you have a reference?
Check out combined cycle power generation units: net efficiency as high as
58.4%
http://www.siemenswestinghouse.com/en/plantrating/index.cfm?session=506656x8
6053168
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
In response to the Vicor DC/DC question - what is your pack voltage?
I'm using 2 - 55 amp IOTA power supplies. Total cost was around $300.
My pack voltage is 144V. The IOTA power supply should work fine up to
156V. I've been pretty happy with the units. You can see mine
installed at:
http://www.evsource.com/images/conversion/underhood.jpg
They are on the left side under the little red case (which is the small
inverter for the zilla pump). Things have changed a bit since this
picture, and the aluminum electronics box is missing its cover, but this
gives you an idea of how I've sealed the power supplies from moisture.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1. Yes, but it won't be small, cool or cheap.
2. You will also need to change D2 to adjust for the pack voltage.
The pass transistor will need to be huge. Using the formula on the top of
page 3...
P=(Vin-Vbatmin) x 16 x Ifast
Vin would probably be about 170 volts (rectified 120 VAC)
Vbatmin would probably be about 100 volts (100 cells times 1 volt per cell)
I don't know why the 16 is there
Ifast is 10 amps.
70 Volts times 10 amps is 700 watts.
This number is believable.
If you multiply by 16 (as the formula says) then the transistor needs to be
rated at 11200 watts.
I don't believe this number since you can't get that amount of power out of
a 5-15 outlet.
Think about how big a 700 watt heater needs to be to stay under 150F and you
get a good idea of how big the heat sink needs to be to dissipate this
amount of power.
3. I would use a switch mode power stage to do this. A PFC charger power
stage should be a good foundation. I might even do it and put an application
note on the webpage to show how to do it (depending on how many people are
interested.)
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 8:25 AM
Subject: Fwd: Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
> --- Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > MAX712 is a nicad charging brain so all you need is already here just
read
> > datasheet, plus this one http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/an/AN3282.pdf to
> > accomodate any cells number, et voil� :^)
> >
> Ok, I have a few questions from a non-EE. The docs show a max charging
curent of 500mA. They also
> show how to fool the charger so it can handle 22 cells.
>
> 1. Can this be scaled up to handle 200 cells charging at 10 amps? (2 120
volt strings)
>
> 2. Is it just a matter of sizing the pass transistor?
>
> 3. Is anyone else going to try this?
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1. Use two single pole double relays and wire them like an automotive
electric window switch. Fire one relay to raise the voltage and the other
relay to reduce it. If you fire both relays, nothing happens.
2. Use a voltage divider to read the voltage. Scale it to fit in the ADC on
the chip.
3. Use a shunt and an amplifier to read the current. Adjust the amplifier
gain to make full current about 75% of the full scale input voltage of the
ADC on the chip.
4. The hardware is trivial. It is the software that will take some time.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:20 PM
Subject: Stuffing the brains into my variac
> I'm looking for component/circuit ideas for adding some brains to my
> charger. It is a simple rectified variac setup. The variac is motorized
> and I have a basic stamp I want to use as the brains. Anyone have any
> favorite ideas for measuring voltage and current and feeding the info to
the
> Stamp. Any good ideas about what to use to drive the motor? The variac
is
> rated for 20 amps and 180 volts. It's the Staco #033-6565 being sold at
> http://www.fairradio.com/variac.htm.
> I will be going on a business trip in a couple of weeks and thought this
> might be a good way to keep myself occupied in the hotel, but in order to
do
> so I will need to be prepared ahead of time.
>
> damon
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone else want to do a scooter conversion? I'm in the midst of the
eLamby, but this Vespa with a siezed motor would be a great candidate:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4528257277
It's in Fresno, so if someone in No.Cal gets the conversion bug, I'd love to
lend a hand, or at least moral support!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:23 AM -0800 on 2/16/05, Steven Lough wrote:
What's the POINT ! Look what happened when the MEDIA got hold of
the "car-In" sit in, on behalf of the Ford Ranger PU EV's just last
month.
I think the EV1 deserves at least as much fight. I concede, that if
the cars are already OUT of the leasees possession, one has yet
another hurdle to overcome, but ...on the other hand ANY EV
publicity is better than none...
They aren't just out of the lessees' possession, they're crushed and
stacked in the Arizona desert. If they were still in one piece, I
could see a point, but they aren't. They're dead parrots.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon ... It most likey is... but Altrax can't limit your contactor size or
the length of the wire leads. Putting a large enough contactor Say a
AlBright SW200 on a dinky controller and then having a few feet of 12 gage
cable can really add to the inductace on the contactor circuit. When Altrax
was DCP, we had a 50 amp Fet and a 3 amp snubber diode, and even at that
they got spanked from time to time.
Also I have a Ap Note from Otmar basicly Brow beating me into making
certain a snubber diode was a cross the relays in Gp.
Ot doen't have to warn me. I would have done it anyways. I do not have
snubber on my Bubbas. Since they take over contactor control inside the
relay.
Of you want to scare yourself put your finger across a Albright... fire up
the coil, and then let it go... while you are across the coil leads... You
won't do it again ...trust me on this.
Damon and I have seen 200 + volt spikes. This of course is not a real good
thing on 60 volt Fets.
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: She's dead Jim
> So I talked to Alltrax and while issuing me an RA Cliff gave me a pretty
> hard time about not having a diode across my main contactor. To be honest
> it wasn't there because I just dropped this controller in when I pulled
out
> my Curtis Controller which doesn't show a need for a diode. Could this
> really have contributed to the problem? I have no problem adding a diode,
I
> just couldn't get a satisfactory answer out of Cliff as to why in his mind
> this was so crucial. He even mentioned that in the install instructions
it
> is recommended, which I pointed out was not quite as forceful and stating
> that it is required. He just kept going on about how fields collapse and
> cause huge votage spikes, which I don't disagree with, I just don't see
how
> a diode across the main contactor does anything to limit damage to my
> controller from these spikes. I also don't understand why this seemingly
> important protection is not built into the controller itself.
>
> damon
>
>
> >--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > My Alltrax controller just blew up. It was quite a
> > > surprise. I had just
> > > headed out of my neighborhood on a beautiful 50
> > > degree day to test out my
> > > new battery arraingement, when I heard a fizzing
> > > noise and looked down to
> > > see sparks and smoke shooting out of the back of my
> > > controller. I cut the
> > > power and pulled off to the side of the road then
> > > pushed my motorcycle back
> > > home.
> > >
> > > I sent an e-mail to Alltrax to see what comes next.
> > > I can't see that it was
> > > anything I did and I just bought the controller last
> > > summer so hopefully it
> > > is a warranty repair type of deal. If not it may be
> > > time to start selling
> > > off components and move on to a different hobby.
> > >
> > > damon
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >=====
> >'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> > ____
> > __/__|__\ __
> > =D-------/ - - \
> > 'O'-----'O'-'
> >Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> >wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also I have a Ap Note from Otmar basicly Brow beating me into making
certain a snubber diode was a cross the relays in Gp.
:-)
Ot doen't have to warn me. I would have done it anyways. I do not have
snubber on my Bubbas. Since they take over contactor control inside the
relay.
You Wish!
Kilovacs have a very crude PWM in the contactor (which causes a lot
of electrical noise) but I don't think it includes snubbing action.
Use the diodes I sent you, they were chosen to work properly on the
Bubbas as well as others.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis writes:
There are 30 ep16 hawkers in 1 string
I should have known!
Rate a controller at 29 batteries and Dennis will run it at 30!
Sheesh, Racers! what can you do? :-)
That's 1.1 Ahr at a nominal 360V so that's a bit under 400 W/hr or
probably closer to 300 W/hr considering battery sag. All that for
about 1 mile of driving including exceeding 100 mph and stopping
again in a 1400 lb car.
Wow! That's some amazing efficiency!
For comparison my Sprint would do 140 Wh/mile, but that was at only
60 mph flat and level on the highway, and my 914 does about 240
Wh/mile at 60 mph. Try accelerating and stopping and it gets much
worse.
For an even better comparison I just looked up an old time slip.
California Poppy needs 7 Ahrs at 240V to do the same 1/4 mile run
including burnout and return to the pits. Except that my runout had
more uphill (Sears Point) so I would need less energy to get back to
the pits. So that's 1680Wh to Dennis' 400. On a 3000 lb 914 to a 1400
lb dragster. And the dragster is quicker too.
Oh, and Dennis, I've just put a special Hairball 2+ in the production
schedule for you. It will have a beefed up precharger to turn on
reliably at 390V in your hot weather. The last thing I'd want is for
a over-voltaged precharger to hold you up when your racing is going
so well.
Have fun!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wrote:
That's 1.1 Ahr at a nominal 360V so that's a bit under 400 W/hr or
probably closer to 300 W/hr considering battery sag. All that for
about 1 mile of driving including exceeding 100 mph and stopping
again in a 1400 lb car.
This got me to thinking, how much energy is in the car when it
crosses the line?
I'm going to assume that he is doing 100 mph on these runs, but doing
the math (possibly incorrectly) makes me wonder about that.
So, Let's see if I can do this....
KE = (1/2)mv^2
KE = Energy (in Joules)
m = mass (in kilograms)
v = velocity (in meters/sec)
100mph, = 45 m/S (online calculator)
1400 lbs = 635 kg. (handy calculator)
= 1.29 MJ / 3600 = 357 w/hr. (1 joule is 1 Watt/second, so there
should be 3600 J in a W/hr.
Hey Dennis, How fast are you going during these 1.1 Ahr runs? I'm
guessing it's closer to 90 mph which would be 282 W/hr, still some
amazing efficinecy.
Is my math off here?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I guess what I am most interested in is why or how this race came into
being. I understand how NEDRA drag racing came about because I was there.
It was because we already had several electric car drag racers out there
and they decided they wanted to hold their own events. I guess my question
would be: How many solar powered dragsters are currently out there? I've
never seen one at a NEDRA event even showing up to do demos or to try and
spark interest. Just my curiosity acting up again.
Are you absolutely sure you were there? (kidding you Roderick) :^D
Like Duh! this is a completely different thing Rod.
This is a totally different take on it coming from the Solar Raycing
community.
I don't think we have seen too many of these guys at NEDRA EVents :^D
I would bet money that there "are not any" solar electric drag racers out
there.
We have been tossing ideas around endlessly at work, FT (Don Crabtree) and I
have spent a bunch of time talking about it. Still trying to get the Cloud
brothers interested... :^0
It may come down to who can spend the most money for the best and most and
lightest weight PV cells (can you say ISS?) that will fit within the 7' by
20' maximum platform specified.
In the future, they will definitely have to have wattage classes.
Sorta like NEDRA should have done instead of voltage classes. (ooops,
should have deleted that :-)
We shall see...
Anyone planning to step up to the plate?
As in any kind of racing, I can see this leading to improvements in PV
direct-to-motor interfaces.
In many installations (especially third-world), PV panel to water pump motor
is the most basic need.
This seems like a potentially productive area for research and development.
P.S. Hey Rod! Do you happen to remember who it was that built the renewable
energy part of the EV Parts webstore from scratch? See ya at the races :^D
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon Henry wrote:
>> Could this really have contributed to the problem?
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Perhaps, since you could have been subjecting the controller to
> spikes of a few times your pack voltage when the contactor opens.
> The spikes would be on the KSI input, if you wire the controller
> according to their suggestions.
How doe they have you wire the Alltrax controller so that the inductive
spike across the contactor's *coil* could possibly appear on the KSI
line? Isn't the contactor coil driven from the 12v system, which is
isolated from the propulsion pack?
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver wrote:
Bill Dennis wrote:
>> What makes DC controllers over 156V so much more expensive to build
>> than those with lower voltages? What's magical about the 156V number?
Nothing, really. The higher the voltage, the more the parts cost. The
rated voltages of diodes, capacitors, and transistors go up in more or
less standardized steps. With capacitors for example, your steps are
generally 100v, 160v, 200v, 250v, 350v, etc. For transistors and diodes,
you generally see 100v, 200v, 300v, 400v, etc.
A "156v" controller is really built with 200v parts, because a 156v pack
on charge can hit 200v. Add 1 more battery for 168v nominal, and you'll
have to use the next step bigger parts for your capacitors, transistors,
and diodes. This steps up the price accordingly.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> True; but higher efficiency is not always better. The above changes
>> lower efficiency, but increase the power-to-weight ratio. If they also
>> reduced cost, you would have *lots* of people that saw the motor as
>> "better".
> Ok, ok, I see your point. However, since I'm primarily interested in
> efficiency, "I" wouldn't call it an improvement ;-)
Ok; if efficiency is your god, then wind your motor with silver wire!
Silver also happens to be mechanically stronger than copper, which also
helps.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> He mentioned spikes of 40,000 volts, which leads me to believe
>> he was thinking of something else.
>> One can only wonder what... the voltage spike across a 48V coil
>> (in your e-motorcycle's case) isn't going to get anywhere near
>> that level.
Frank Schmitt wrote:
> Keep in mind we're talking about the same circuit that's used to
> drive spark plugs in an ICE. It will spike to whatever voltage it
> takes to keep the current flowing through the coil.
The circuit is the same, but an ignition coil is built considerably
different than a contactor coil. The ignition coil is wound to maximize
the inductive kick. It is actually a step-up autotransformer, not a
simple coil. They also wind it to minimize the capacitance and maximize
the leakage inductance, which further increase the peak voltage.
A contactor has a closed magnetic circuit (when pulled in); this slows
the rate of collapse of the field, and thus reduces the peak voltage
kick. Its coil also has considerable capacitance between the turns --
this coupled with the inductance forms a resonant circuit to further
limit the rate of rise in voltage.
As a result, you are unlikely to see more than about 10 times the
voltage on a contactor coil. Note that this is still 120 volts on a 12v
coil, or 480 volts on a 48 volt coil!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I guess what I am most interested in is why or how this race came into
being. I understand how NEDRA drag racing came about because I was there.
It was because we already had several electric car drag racers out there
and they decided they wanted to hold their own events. I guess my question
would be: How many solar powered dragsters are currently out there? I've
never seen one at a NEDRA event even showing up to do demos or to try and
spark interest. Just my curiosity acting up again.
Are you absolutely sure you were there? (kidding you Roderick) :^D
Like Duh! this is a completely different thing Rod.
This is a totally different take on it coming from the Solar Raycing
community.
I don't think we have seen too many of these guys at NEDRA EVents :^D
I would bet that there "are not any" solar electric drag racers out there.
We have been tossing ideas around endlessly at work, FT (Don Crabtree) and I
have spent a bunch of time talking about it.
It may come down to who can spend the most money for the best PV cells to
fit within the 7' by 20' maximum platform required.
We shall see...
Anyone planning to step up to the plate?
As in any kind of racing, I can see this leading to improvements in PV
direct-to-motor interfaces.
In many installations (especially third-world), PV panel to water pump motor
is the most basic need.
This seems like a potentially productive area for research and development.
P.S. Hey Rod! Do you happen to remember who it was that built the renewable
energy part of the EV Parts webstore from scratch? See ya at the races :^D
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
<SNIP>
They aren't just out of the lessees' possession, they're crushed and
stacked in the Arizona desert. If they were still in one piece, I could
see a point, but they aren't. They're dead parrots.
That was my impression as well, until I was informed by Ron Freund from the
EAA that the last 100 to 150 EV1s in California have not reached the end of
their leases and been turned. He assured me that while their time is
running out, they aren't gone yet. As I said before, in this case it seems
like it would be worth the attempt to save them. If he is mistaken, then
it is indeed pointless, but he seems to know what he is talking about. I
was very doubtful about the Ranger sit-in, and said so on the EVDL, but
after seeing the results, I have to admit that it apparently can work, at
least against Ford. While I am not optimistic about GM, I wouldn't mind
them getting a black eye in at least some of the media over this.
The thing that burns me is the taxpayer dollars that went to the auto
makers to develop advanced batteries (which they mostly didn't), then to
develop electric cars (which they mostly didn't), and then to put in
charging stations (which we mostly can't access). All this so they can
just crush the cars? Saying it isn't cost effective or profitable is one
thing, doing it with my tax dollars and still paying big salaries and fat
retirements is quite another.
Yes, I know that is business as usual, but it still leave me a bit POed.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I don't like about these solar vehicles is that they are totally
unidimensional, of course, drag cars, top fuelers, funny cars etc, are also,
but what I would like to see are not just plain "range" or "speed"
competitions for solar vehicles, but competitions that mock everyday life,
in that way inventors and manufacturesrs would generate a rational vehicle
that could be of public intrest.
Who would like to go to work at 60 mph flat on his belly, sealed inside an
unventilated canister virtually with no steering and brakes ?
(Well, maybe I would, but that is not the point :))
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de damon henry
Enviado el: viernes, 18 de febrero de 2005 0:25
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: RE: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
If you want to see something a bit more exciting and high paced you are
always invited to my house to watch the slugs race out of the wetlands and
into my wife's garden ;-)
>From: "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
>Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 18:23:11 -0800
>
>I was getting excited about the competition until I read rule #1. Now all
>I
>can think is...boring. The competition will probably be decided by who has
>the most cash and best connections to obtain the highest efficiency solar
>cells.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Behalf Of Lightning Ryan
>Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 5:11 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
>
>
>Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > I've never heard of any heat engine hitting 52%, do you have a
>reference?
>No, just dreaming, like the 30% Fresnel Concentrator setup, which would
>probably be better, and would shurely top any plain pv (even high end).
>
> > As for the slow startup time, well it's a drag race....
> > rev the engine and dump the clutch ;-)
>Ya, but the rules say...
>
>2. Batteries, capacitors, flywheels, or energy storage devices
> (if any) must be completely de-energized and in an uncharged
> state prior to the start of each race heat.
>
>So, When exactly is the "start of each race heat"?
>Does that include the trip from the pits to the starting line?
>
>1. Solar-only powered dragsters will race head-to-head using
> only solar electric cells and electric motors.
>
>Looks like stirlings are out, "only solar electric cells".
>
>L8r
> Ryan
>
> > Roy LeMeur wrote:
> >
> >> For additional rules and information you can check out the web page:
> >> http://users.applecapital.net/~jim/solardragrace.htm
>
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The only reason I could think of for destroying the cars would be to protect
some revolutionary design or invention in them, but since that is not the
case, and car makers are talking about cost efectiveness, why not sell them
and recover some of the money invested, it's something I just don't
understand.
Ivo.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Mike Chancey
Enviado el: viernes, 18 de febrero de 2005 9:46
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
Michael Hurley wrote:
<SNIP>
>They aren't just out of the lessees' possession, they're crushed and
>stacked in the Arizona desert. If they were still in one piece, I could
>see a point, but they aren't. They're dead parrots.
That was my impression as well, until I was informed by Ron Freund from the
EAA that the last 100 to 150 EV1s in California have not reached the end of
their leases and been turned. He assured me that while their time is
running out, they aren't gone yet. As I said before, in this case it seems
like it would be worth the attempt to save them. If he is mistaken, then
it is indeed pointless, but he seems to know what he is talking about. I
was very doubtful about the Ranger sit-in, and said so on the EVDL, but
after seeing the results, I have to admit that it apparently can work, at
least against Ford. While I am not optimistic about GM, I wouldn't mind
them getting a black eye in at least some of the media over this.
The thing that burns me is the taxpayer dollars that went to the auto
makers to develop advanced batteries (which they mostly didn't), then to
develop electric cars (which they mostly didn't), and then to put in
charging stations (which we mostly can't access). All this so they can
just crush the cars? Saying it isn't cost effective or profitable is one
thing, doing it with my tax dollars and still paying big salaries and fat
retirements is quite another.
Yes, I know that is business as usual, but it still leave me a bit POed.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005
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Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.8 - Release Date: 14/02/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/17/05 11:33:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<
Hey Dennis, How fast are you going during these 1.1 Ahr runs? I'm
guessing it's closer to 90 mph which would be 282 W/hr, still some
amazing efficinecy.
Is my math off here?
-- >>
These runs are113mph now,but 3 weeks ago before the battery proplems I was
going 123 to 124 mph. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rich and All,
What are the options to charge a 144vdc pack
of t-105's that's automatic as the customer isn't that
technical.
Do Lesters go this high?
What other chargers will work. Price?
Anyone have a used one for sale?
Sharon really needs help here and we should
give it as they are one of the few people building
EV's now!!!
Thanks,
jerry dycus
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well I definitely have a solution!!
>
> But not for $300 Bucks.
> That price is a boost transformer and bridge
> rectifier, and a stop watch and
> meters.
>
> Hands off PFC charging.. from 100 to 240 input and
> 12 to 450 VDC output is
> what I sell.
>
> It still baffles me that somebody would spend a
> couple of thousand bucks on
> a battery pack, and then Cheap out on a third world
> charger.
>
> I learned long ago, a good charger hand build or not
> was worth every penny.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:38 PM
> Subject: help
>
>
> >
> > Hi Guys, can any one in the group make me a 144
> volt batterycharger
> > @110 volt input??or know where I can get one for
> about 300$ were in
> > a bind, we have a Ranger sitting here all done and
> billed out. Now
> > were starting our 6th truck. prob is that this
> coustmer wanted to
> > have us get a charger.and not buy his
> own.Something happened with
> > the building of the charger, now were in a sticky
> situation. I
> > could really use your guys help...Thanks Sharon
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I lost the e mail with info for getting brushes that Otmar posted , can anyone
repost it , or send it to me , thanks Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/17/05 11:33:46 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< This got me to thinking, how much energy is in the car when it
crosses the line?
I'm going to assume that he is doing 100 mph on these runs, but doing
the math (possibly incorrectly) makes me wonder about that.
So, Let's see if I can do this....
KE = (1/2)mv^2
KE = Energy (in Joules)
m = mass (in kilograms)
v = velocity (in meters/sec)
100mph, = 45 m/S (online calculator)
1400 lbs = 635 kg. (handy calculator)
= 1.29 MJ / 3600 = 357 w/hr. (1 joule is 1 Watt/second, so there
should be 3600 J in a W/hr.
Hey Dennis, How fast are you going during these 1.1 Ahr runs? I'm
guessing it's closer to 90 mph which would be 282 W/hr, still some
amazing efficinecy.
Is my math off here?
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
When the CE ran the 6.5 amp hr JCI inspira batteries it used 3 to 3.5ah at
336 volts to run the qt.mile in 8.9 seconds per the JCI rep.that observed the
run.The CE was however lighter by over 150 pounds. It also did NOT have
variable brush timing at that time... Dennis Berube
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------
Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The brush WEB site is:
http://www.helwigcp.com/
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:19 AM
Subject: brushes
I lost the e mail with info for getting brushes that Otmar posted , can
anyone repost it , or send it to me , thanks Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to be so down on the manufacturers, but they are clearly working
hard
against EVs. Too much risk for less money to be made; much better to
direct
the tide of public acceptance toward the more complex solutions that will
generate higher profit margins. Like hybrids and FCEVs
I would *love* for someone to prove me wrong. I don't hold out much hope.
Chris
The way to do it is to get enough conversions on the road , at some point
the car manufacturers will do a flip flop , and there will be all electrics
by them . I think this is the job at hand right now , get as many conversion
out there with as many people driving them , . I think the "Fun factor" is
what is needed , saving money , environment , and dependence on oil are all
good , but , if we can sell EV's as fun and the next great auto hobby ect ,
that will be a step .
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
