EV Digest 4109
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: brushes
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Catbus Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Turner multi speed gearbox
by mark ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Nick Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif. (also, un-disabling an EV-1?)
by Ben Apollonio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: She's dead Jim
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Turner multi speed gearbox
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Help with predicting motor power-repeat and long
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: MAX712 IC to control NiCad charging.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Drag racing electric vehicles..
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: She's dead Jim
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by Frank Schmitt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New venting batt
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Torque Steer
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery resting voltage...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Otmar Efficiency
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Vespa conversion candidate on eBay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Stuffing the brains into my variac
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: She's dead Jim
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> I lost the e mail with info for getting brushes that Otmar
> posted , can anyone repost it , or send it to me , thanks Steve Clunn
>
Steve,
did you look for my message? Below it is:
Markus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus L
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 9:21 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Source for GE motor brushes?
>
>
>
> Otmar,
>
> I just recently had to find brushes for my Elec-trac GE sep-ex motor.
> I called Repco, talked to Scott Tussey, and he dug up the right
> brushes for me. He was VERY helpful and knowledgeable. He said he's
> been selling brushes since '72. I highly recommend him:
>
> http://www.repcoinc.com
> Repco Inc.
> 6 Eves Dr,
> Marlton NJ 08053
> Scott Tussey
> 1-800-822-9190
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Markus
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know how many people are at the sit-in today and the phone
number for a pizza delivery service nearby? I would like to send these
guys/gals some lunch.
Chris
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
Sorry to be so down on the manufacturers, but they are clearly working
hard
against EVs. Too much risk for less money to be made; much better to
direct
the tide of public acceptance toward the more complex solutions that will
generate higher profit margins. Like hybrids and FCEVs
I would *love* for someone to prove me wrong. I don't hold out much
hope.
Chris
The way to do it is to get enough conversions on the road , at some
point the car manufacturers will do a flip flop , and there will be all
electrics by them . I think this is the job at hand right now , get as
many conversion out there with as many people driving them , . I think
the "Fun factor" is what is needed , saving money , environment , and
dependence on oil are all good , but , if we can sell EV's as fun and
the next great auto hobby ect , that will be a step .
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree, Steve - I just wish that I could get anyone interested enough to
pay me to do a conversion for them!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
>
> > Sorry to be so down on the manufacturers, but they are clearly working
> > hard
> > against EVs. Too much risk for less money to be made; much better to
> > direct
> > the tide of public acceptance toward the more complex solutions that
will
> > generate higher profit margins. Like hybrids and FCEVs
> >
> > I would *love* for someone to prove me wrong. I don't hold out much
hope.
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
> The way to do it is to get enough conversions on the road , at some point
> the car manufacturers will do a flip flop , and there will be all
electrics
> by them . I think this is the job at hand right now , get as many
conversion
> out there with as many people driving them , . I think the "Fun factor" is
> what is needed , saving money , environment , and dependence on oil are
all
> good , but , if we can sell EV's as fun and the next great auto hobby ect
,
> that will be a step .
> steve clunn
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Along the bad boy lines , My clunn car 4 still has a bad boy in it , I've
been after Russ to buy a PFC for awhile , but he never has enough money ,
well it's a 132v set up with a boast transformer , and 2 plugs hanging out
to be plugged in . He has been plugging them into different lines ( to get
those amps ) , and something tripped the breaker that the boost transformer
was plugged into , ( probable a heater ) . with the braker open the boost
transformer started pumping juice into the line which also had other stuff
on it , like a computer. without the line voltage to keep the voltage steady
, the now out put from the boost transformer wracked his computer. Of course
he can't afford a charger now , he has to get his computer fixed .
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 7:17 AM
Subject: 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
Hi Rich and All,
What are the options to charge a 144vdc pack
of t-105's that's automatic as the customer isn't that
technical.
Do Lesters go this high?
What other chargers will work. Price?
Anyone have a used one for sale?
Sharon really needs help here and we should
give it as they are one of the few people building
EV's now!!!
Thanks,
jerry dycus
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well I definitely have a solution!!
But not for $300 Bucks.
That price is a boost transformer and bridge
rectifier, and a stop watch and
meters.
Hands off PFC charging.. from 100 to 240 input and
12 to 450 VDC output is
what I sell.
It still baffles me that somebody would spend a
couple of thousand bucks on
a battery pack, and then Cheap out on a third world
charger.
I learned long ago, a good charger hand build or not
was worth every penny.
----- Original Message -----
From: "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: help
>
> Hi Guys, can any one in the group make me a 144
volt batterycharger
> @110 volt input??or know where I can get one for
about 300$ were in
> a bind, we have a Ranger sitting here all done and
billed out. Now
> were starting our 6th truck. prob is that this
coustmer wanted to
> have us get a charger.and not buy his
own.Something happened with
> the building of the charger, now were in a sticky
situation. I
> could really use your guys help...Thanks Sharon
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
At 11:23 AM -0800 on 2/16/05, Steven Lough wrote:
What's the POINT ! Look what happened when the MEDIA got hold of
the "car-In" sit in, on behalf of the Ford Ranger PU EV's just last
month.
I think the EV1 deserves at least as much fight. I concede, that if
the cars are already OUT of the leasees possession, one has yet
another hurdle to overcome, but ...on the other hand ANY EV
publicity is better than none...
They aren't just out of the lessees' possession, they're crushed and
stacked in the Arizona desert. If they were still in one piece, I
could see a point, but they aren't. They're dead parrots.
They are appently not ALL crushed yet, look back at the original post in
this thread, it says:
/"Currently, the company is crushing the cars upon their/
/return. The testing site where the rally and press/
/conference will take place is home to about 70 EV1s/
/that have been collected from owners. The cars are/
/left partially charged so GM can remove them and crush/
/them at a moment's notice."
/
"Mad" Mike Shipway
Baltimore, MD, USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ivo Jara wrote:
> The only reason I could think of for destroying the cars
> would be to protect some revolutionary design or invention in
> them, but since that is not the case, and car makers are
> talking about cost efectiveness, why not sell them and
> recover some of the money invested, it's something I just
> don't understand.
Hi Ivo,
This has been discussed before, but I'll give a brief recap. From a purely
operations-oriented perspective, selling EV1s would mean continuing to
commit resources to procure and distribute parts, train service personnel,
assign engineers to handle continuing design, manufacturing and service
issues, etc., etc. All for a tiny fleet of vehicles (around 1000?). The
money already spent on the project is already spent (sunk cost). You can't
get it back. The value of the cars themselves is tiny compared to the total
spent to date on the project. From now going forward, it's just not worth
the effort.
In considering the broader business point of view, we're forced to
speculate. We don't know what information the executives are basing their
decisions on. IMO, a big part of it is that auto execs are mostly car guys,
and car guys think in terms of gasoline engines. I know that sounds overly
simplistic, but how easy is it to make a Patriots fan convert to being an
Eagles fan? (For those outside the US, substitute equivalent
soccer/football teams.) Cars are about oil and gas and pistons, and it has
(effectively) always been that way. Electrical motors and batteries are
just too weird.
Most importantly, that's how the *public* thinks. No auto executive with
half a brain is going to cast uncertainty on anything his buying public
holds as a fundamental truth. A confused public means lost sales. You also
have the fact that EVs are less complex than ICE vehicles, so competition
will drive selling prices lower. At the same profit margins, lower selling
price means lower total profits. And the lower complexity will mean lower
service revenue, so now all your dealers are angry.
This is why the major manufacturers uniformly malign EVs and promote highly
complex alternatives. And take CARB to court. And contribute to
congressmen and the president in return for legal backup. They are only
doing what corporations are required to do - maximize profits.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy LeMeur stated:
"In the future, they will definitely have to have wattage classes."
"Sorta like NEDRA should have done instead of voltage classes. (ooops,
should have deleted that :-)"
Yes you should have deleted this. The people that formed NEDRA put in a lot
of thought into building class structures and this was discussed and
discarded early on for obvious reasons. In a solar car without batteries it
may work as the panels have wattage ratings. Roy, you should have learned by
now that two identical vehicles with the same batteries can have totally
different amounts of stored energy called energy density or wh/kg depending
on various factors. In electric drag racing we are more concerned with power
density or w/kg. Power density is the ability of an energy system to release
its stored energy quickly. A very good example of this is Dennis Berube's
recent post stating that he only uses 1.1 amp/hrs per run. He doesn't need a
great deal of stored energy due to his efficiency. Several years ago I tried
unsuccessfully to explain the difference between energy density and power
density to your boss, Steve Cloud, when he tried to pursade NEDRA to go by
battery weight like they do in Electrathon. This is the reason he has been
trying to start a rival racing organization, NEVRA, that hasn't gone
anywhere. Of course we all know that stored battery wattage is diffferent
from motor wattage. The amount of motor wattage (horse power) you use is
what gets you down the track. Scenario, NHRA tech guy: "So what wattage are
you running today? What are the motor amp settings and your battery voltage
settings on your Zilla? I'm sure I can trust you not to change them once you
have been inspected."
Come on Roy, get real, I thought you had more sense than that!
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
--
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone had experience or any knowledge regarding
the multispeed gearboxes available from Turner
for example as available at
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005021809281694&item=13-1338&catname=powerTrans
They are avaiable with relatively high HP ratings and look like they might be
adaptable to light EV use for gearing down motors.
What kind of loss would these gearboxes introduce into the drivetrain?
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
>They aren't just out of the lessees' possession, they're crushed and
>stacked in the Arizona desert. If they were still in one piece, I
>could see a point, but they aren't. They're dead parrots.
>--
There are plenty of "uncrushed" EV1s at the vigil site...
http://www.sealbeach.org/gmvigil/06carc8.jpg
Nick
Dr Nick Carter,
Owner, npc Imaging, 2228 Magowan Drive, Santa Rosa, CA 95405 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax: +1 (707) 573 9361
http://www.npcimaging.com
ex-Th!nk City EV driver
President, North Bay Electric Auto Association
"Spare the air every day - drive electric!"
***************************************************************
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--- Begin Message ---
I actually ran into an EV1 at a rest stop on Route 128 (I-95) around
Boston this past summer. It's one of those things you remember as
clearly as the day it happened. My sister and I stopped for a snack,
and coming out, I did a double-take looking at this sleek, oddly
familiar car across the parking lot. My reaction, seeing the covers on
the rear wheels, was something like, "hey, look, an Insight....WAIT A
SECOND!" After bolting across the parking lot, I was standing,
admiring it, when the owner came back. He was apparently a GM employee
and had the car through October, I think. I asked if they were going
to crush it when he was done with it, and he said he didn't know. He
did give me an EV-1 Gen 2 pamphlet. Climbing back into my Prius after
that experience felt a lot less exciting than it usually does...
Anybody know what the car was doing in BOSTON of all places? Perhaps
an extension of the testing they were doing in NY?
My school, WPI, has one of the disabled EV-1's. Does anybody know what
was done to the ultracap EV-1 to get it driving again? Did they have
to completely replace the drivetrain? Despite WPI's car not being
street-legal, it might be nice to get it out of its garage.
-Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually I had the KSI switch connected to the B+ and then used a switch,
not a contactor for the main power.
Their manual can be downloaded at
http://www.alltraxinc.com/old/Manuals/AXE%20Manual.zip. The series2.pdf
file shows how to hook up a series wound motor. This particular version is
dated last November, so I'm not sure what they have changed since I
installed my controller last summer. I was swapping out a Curtis 1204 and
left everything the same.
damon
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: She's dead Jim
Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:31:30 -0800
Damon Henry wrote:
>> Could this really have contributed to the problem?
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Perhaps, since you could have been subjecting the controller to
> spikes of a few times your pack voltage when the contactor opens.
> The spikes would be on the KSI input, if you wire the controller
> according to their suggestions.
How doe they have you wire the Alltrax controller so that the inductive
spike across the contactor's *coil* could possibly appear on the KSI
line? Isn't the contactor coil driven from the 12v system, which is
isolated from the propulsion pack?
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't know what kind of losses these have, but I don't think they are
all that suitable.
The specs on this one say "1750 RPM max. input" so you'd need to gear down
your typical EV motor BEFORE it gets to this one.
Also it's shipping weight is 58 lbs. That's almost as much as a VW
transaxle.
> for example as available at
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005021809281694&item=13-1338&catname=powerTrans
>
> They are avaiable with relatively high HP ratings and look like they might
> be adaptable to light EV use for gearing down motors.
>
> What kind of loss would these gearboxes introduce into the drivetrain?
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a repeat of an earlier request. I am sorry for doing so, but I
really need some help as I have to start designing the transfer gears, i.e.
cheap transmission.
I finally got some real world test results of the motors I was planning on
using. I am very disappointed with the test sheets, as these motors have
tested to over 10hp in the past. The figures in the charts will be bare
minimums anyway. If I get more I will be all the happier. The tester did not
measure below 400rpm as well. I am fairly certain it produces between 75 and
100ftlbs when it first starts to move. Anyway here is the chart.
RPM Torque HP Current Volts
400 56.94ftlbs 4.82hp 2285amps 7volts
600 50.89ftlbs 6.03hp 2075amps 7.2volts
800 43.14ftlbs 6.96hp 1925amps 7.5volts
1000 38.35ftlbs 7.5hp 1770amps 7.9volts
1200 32.82ftlbs 7.89hp 1570amps 8.5volts
1400 28.44ftlbs 7.89hp 1440amps 8.7volts
1600 24.33ftlbs 7.49hp 1275amps 9.2volts
1800 20.65ftlbs 7.10hp 1150amps 9.5volts
2000 15.49ftlbs 6.29hp 900amps 10volts
My question is what can I expect when I run this motor at 24volts, with
batteries that have a combined CA rating of 1875amps (3 x 625 x 2 strings).
This was an electronic test, the case states 300amps. The test was done at
room temperature. Once at a show with the battery sitting in the sun the
battery electronically tested at over 1000CA.
Also what can I expect when running the same motor at 48volts with the same
batteries, 4 strings instead of 2.
And for the future what about 96 volts with just single 625ca batteries.
Also I am open for suggestions on gear ratios, the bike is going to weigh
about 500lbs with rider. Thanks in advance for any comments, suggests, and
help. My biggest question is am I going to see 4 times both the HP and
Torque at 24volts, and then 4 times that at 48volts. Raymond
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That was my impression as well, until I was informed by Ron Freund
from the EAA that the last 100 to 150 EV1s in California have not
reached the end of their leases and been turned. He assured me that
while their time is running out, they aren't gone yet. As I said
before, in this case it seems like it would be worth the attempt to
save them. If he is mistaken, then it is indeed pointless, but he
seems to know what he is talking about. I was very doubtful about
the Ranger sit-in, and said so on the EVDL, but after seeing the
results, I have to admit that it apparently can work, at least
against Ford. While I am not optimistic about GM, I wouldn't mind
them getting a black eye in at least some of the media over this.
Ah! Well that does change a few things then, doesn't it? If there are
still EV1s on the road, I retract my previous aspersions as to the
pointlessness of having a vigil for them.
The thing that burns me is the taxpayer dollars that went to the
auto makers to develop advanced batteries (which they mostly
didn't), then to develop electric cars (which they mostly didn't),
and then to put in charging stations (which we mostly can't access).
All this so they can just crush the cars? Saying it isn't cost
effective or profitable is one thing, doing it with my tax dollars
and still paying big salaries and fat retirements is quite another.
Yes, I know that is business as usual, but it still leave me a bit POed.
Indeed.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 1. Yes, but it won't be small, cool or cheap.
>
> 2. You will also need to change D2 to adjust for the pack voltage.
>
> The pass transistor will need to be huge. Using the formula on the top of
> page 3...
>
> P=(Vin-Vbatmin) x 16 x Ifast
>
> Vin would probably be about 170 volts (rectified 120 VAC)
> Vbatmin would probably be about 100 volts (100 cells times 1 volt per
> cell)
> I don't know why the 16 is there
> Ifast is 10 amps.
They screwed up the formula. The 16 represents the maximum number of
cells you can charge without tricking the chip, so the formula aught to
read:
PD = (Vin -(Vbatmin x 16)) X Ifast
with Vbatmin being the minimum voltage of a single cell under charge (i.e.
1.4V according to the full docs) and the 16 representing 16 cells.
If you read the full documentation it gives the formula for power
disipation in the transistor as:
PDpnp = (maximum wall-cube voltage under load - minimum battery voltage) x
(charge current in amps)
Further reading on the docs indicate that some cells may go almost down to
1.3V under charge and up as high as 1.9V.
So assuming a 100 cell pack:
Minimum supply voltage needs to be 201V (100 x 1.9V + 2V)
Minimum battery voltage under charge would be 130V
So power disipation in the transistor should be:
(>201v - 130v) x 10Amps > 710 watts (ouch!)
Note: the full docs state that at high charge currents you should set the
chip up as a switched mode charger. Switched mode is much more efficient
but somewhat more complicated than linear mode.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The magazines on airplanes, and the fancy gadget stores, sell a
blimp: a helium balloon with 2 little remotely controlled propellers.
If your solar cell is lighter than batteries that might work. Indoor
toy only, though, it doesn't do wind!
A couple more ideas: Balance may be challenging, as you'd want the
solar cell above the balloon in general. If you use mylar maybe you
could use reflection to improve the light falling on the solar cell.
--- "Jonathan \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If we're drag racing with EVs, I can already tell you what the
> fastest
> one is. It's whoever has the most symetrical megabits of internet
> connectivity all the way between them and their destination.
>
> Oh, we're not drag racing the Net? Well, it's a electric vehicle,
> isn't it?
>
> ObEV: I was thinking it might be fun to make a electric, remote
> controlled, solar powered dirigable. Anyone else think this sounds
> like
> fun? I have the panels, but I'd need to figure out motors and lift
> bag
> and compressor.. I'm guessing that one of Victor Tikhinov's Brusa
> vacuum pumps would make a good compressor, placed inside the lift
> bag. Not sure how much pressure those can develop (which would be
> important because it would be compressing into a aluminum canister
> - am I incorrect, or would this let me affect the bouyency and
> therefore lift of the craft?)
>
> I'm not denying, by the way, that this comes under the category of
> 'extremely odd behavior'. But, it is a electric vehicle! Picture a
> world
> in which this device replaced the UPS truck. Glue GPS to PDA to
> drive
> system [and I can see all the glue from where I'm sitting, except
> the
> digital duct tape that would be the software], and you've got a
> interesting device that can deliver a package, self-routed. Bonus
> points for cool if you can figure out a BLDC drive for the
> compressor that enables you to regen-brake the expanding gas as it
> flows into the lift bag.
>
> Obviously, this device needs a battery pack that is *light*. The
> working
> gas could be hydrogen, and a fuel cell could power the device
> combining
> the H2 with O from the air and dropping the water. Or we could use
> LiON. Since the battery doesn't have to run the motors, just the
> onboard computer (the solar panel runs the motors, and/or the
> expanding gas) a fuel cell could be reletively small and light.
>
> Just playing with ideas over here. Is this enough of a electric
> vehicle
> to qualify for the list? I can't remember if the charter specified
> cars.
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Roy LeMeur wrote:
> This is a totally different take on it coming from the Solar
> Raycing community. I don't think we have seen too many of these
> guys at NEDRA EVents :^D
One of the NEDRA races also had an electrathon race. They are a lot like
solar cars. Someone even had a solar powered EV there, though he was
just driving around the parking lot with it.
> I would bet money that there "are not any" solar electric drag
> racers out there.
Seems logical. The solar cars all seem to be built for other purposes,
though of course you can drag race anything if you're so inclined.
> We have been tossing ideas around endlessly at work, FT (Don
> Crabtree) and I have spent a bunch of time talking about it.
> Still trying to get the Cloud brothers interested... :^0
> It may come down to who can spend the most money for the best
> and most and lightest weight PV cells (can you say ISS?) that
> will fit within the 7' by 20' maximum platform specified.
That's my thought as well. I think races that are won mainly by who can
spend the most are rather boring. The way they set up their rules
disallows creative solutions, and means whoever can afford the best PV
panels is the likely winner.
It might have been more fun if they specified the PV panel everyone had
to use. With a reasonable claiming rule (like the $2,500 for the high
school cars), it could be a lot more interesting. Being clever and
getting the details right would count for more than money.
> In the future, they will definitely have to have wattage classes.
Maybe. But limiting the square footage basically does the same thing.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Rich Rudman wrote:
> Altrax can't limit your contactor size or the length of the wire
> leads. Putting a large enough contactor Say a Albright SW200 on
> a dinky controller and then having a few feet of 12 gage cable
> can really add to the inductance on the contactor circuit.
No it won't. You've got millihenries for the coil, and microhenries for
the wire; the connecting wire's inductance is insignificant.
> When Altrax was DCP, we had a 50 amp Fet and a 3 amp snubber diode,
> and even at that they got spanked from time to time.
A MOSFET is *way* too fast for a coil driver. I hope you added some gate
series resistance to slow down its turn-on and turn-off. If you didn't,
you get noise way up into the RF region, and worse voltage and current
peaks.
Also, I'll bet your 3 amp diode wasn't a fast part. If you switch the
MOSFET fast, you need a fast diode or you'll spike the supply with a
huge reverse recovery spike. In this application, you want a SLOW diode
and a SLOW transistor -- meaning the transistor and diode switch around
100 microseconds, not 100 nanoseconds.
Oh... and there's another way to do your snubbing. The snubbing diode,
resistor, capacitor, zener, or whatever can be across the transistor
instead of the coil. This has advantages under certain conditions. One
advantage is that you can get transistors with what amounts to a good
zener diode across them -- one that can be relied on to clamp at a
certain voltage without harming the device. This combines the transistor
and snubbing diode into a single part.
> Of you want to scare yourself put your finger across a Albright...
> fire up the coil, and then let it go... while you are across the
> coil leads... You won't do it again ...trust me on this. Damon and
> I have seen 200 + volt spikes. This of course is not a real good
> thing on 60 volt Fets.
Absolutely! A typical scramble-wound coil (magnet wire just wound on
like string on a spool, with no particular order and no insulation
betweel layers) can easily kick to 10-20 times the voltage. Other
winding techniques make it even higher.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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On Feb 17, 2005, at 17:20, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I do not understand what length of the half shaft has to do with
transmitting torque drom its one end to another. Of course twisting
shaft is negligible phenomena here.
Can you elaborate then?
Picture yourself standing with one foot on your night stand and one
foot on your bed's mattress. Let's assume they're the same height when
your weight is split between them (bear with me here...). If you try to
jump with equal force on both legs, you're going take off upward, but
slightly at an angle toward the mattress. At steady state, you don't
notice that one side is flexy and the other side isn't, but you do in
the transient response.
This is what's happening: the long half shaft momentarily winds up,
while the short one doesn't (or to a lesser extent, anyway). This is
enough to make you feel a momentary tug on the steering (I'm assuming
it's momentary -- if not, then something else must be going on).
A lot of higher-powered FWD cars are arranged with a large-diameter
shaft bolted to the back of the engine block for the engine-side
(usually right) driveshaft, putting it's inboard CV joint in the same
position, relatively speaking, as the one coming out of the transaxle
on the other side. This minimizes the "tug" (but not the "my steering
wanders when I accelerate" sensation).
-Frank
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I'm wrestling with a new battery in an old string right now too.
Seems like I have the opposite problem. The new one takes
significantly longer (extra hour) to reach acceptance voltage than the
others. I'm trying to figure out if I simply got a stale battery, or
if this is normal.
Many sources state that new batteries have less capacity than "broken-in" ones.
What I haven't been able to find is information on how new batteries
react differently to charging vs broken in ones. What's the group
consensus?
Richard
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 09:13:42 -0500, Mark Hanson wrote:
> Hi, I put a new battery in my old pack to replace a stinker and it ran dry
> on charging. I assume that a new battery doesn't need as much charging as
> the older one's so it probably overcharged. I'm picking up 19 more today
> for the E-Tracker. anyone want to trade for a Kewet? Sometimes I think less
> batteries is better when it comes to EV's. Mark
>
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I 2nd looking for loose parts in the front and rear suspensions.
The "torque steer" due to unequal length axle shafts is transient.
You apply torque, and at the first instant the shorter stiffer shaft
transmits more torque than the longer "twistier" shaft, turning the
car a little bit for a moment. Quickly everything hits steady state,
and both wheels are getting the same torque. The driver
subconsciously learns to correct for this and doesn't even notice it
after a while. Most modern cars are well designed and have very
little of this effect.
If the problem is a steady pull, it is not due to the unequal shaft
lengths.
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I will ASAP, thanks for warning!!
>
> Victor
>
> Andrew Letton wrote:
>
> > I haven't been following this thread, but I did once have a
> similar
> > problem on my ICE car, and I found that the bolts holding one of
> the
> > front control arm bushing mounts had backed out about 1/4",
> allowing the
> > arm to move and change the steering geometry with acceleration
> and
> > deceleration. Had the bolts fallen out completely before I
> discovered
> > them, the right wheel would have gone one direction, the left
> wheel
> > another....leading to a very messy situation! Check out your
> > suspension mounts now, not later!
> > cheers,
> > Andrew
>
>
>
=====
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Lee,
Do all multimeters have adjustable calibration? Or just the expensive ones?
Also, I've seen meters that feature "self-calibration" or "auto
calibration". What does this mean?
Thanks,
Richard
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:39:07 -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
> You can send one of your meters to a lab to be calibrated. Then use it
> to check and calibrate the rest.
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--- Begin Message ---
Otmar can you please speculate why the Porsche is so much less
efficienty than the Sprint? I'd assume the weights and aero are close
to the same.
--- Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> For comparison my Sprint would do 140 Wh/mile, but that was at only
> 60 mph flat and level on the highway, and my 914 does about 240
> Wh/mile at 60 mph. Try accelerating and stopping and it gets much
> worse.
> ...
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Question is where will everything go? If you could take out the Gastank and
put batteries maybe.?????? It does look like you could put an ETEK where the
fan is. Wonder if you could keep the transmission. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: Vespa conversion candidate on eBay
Does anyone else want to do a scooter conversion? I'm in the midst of the
eLamby, but this Vespa with a siezed motor would be a great candidate:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4528257277
It's in Fresno, so if someone in No.Cal gets the conversion bug, I'd love
to
lend a hand, or at least moral support!
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OK, I guess it will be as straight forward as I thougt it might. I am using
a Basic Stamp 2 (BS2-IC) which does not have a built in ADC, so I guess I
will need to pick a couple of those up. Do I need to be concerned about
protecting my BS2 from anything I am measuring. It seems to me that between
the shunt for the current and the voltage divider it is pretty well
protected, but I don't have a lot of experience building circuits, so I
haven't had a lot of chances to learn from my mistakes.
BTW - I know there are other chips out there that might be a better fit than
the Basic Stamp, but I already have one, and I have some familiarity
programming it.
Even though it is the hard part of this project, for me the software will be
the fun part. Although I started my career thinking I wanted to be an
Electrical Engineer, I took a turn down a more computercentric path. I
always enjoy writing software that manipulates things in the real world as
opposed to pushing pixels or data around in a virtual world.
damon
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Stuffing the brains into my variac
Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 21:40:06 -0800
1. Use two single pole double relays and wire them like an automotive
electric window switch. Fire one relay to raise the voltage and the other
relay to reduce it. If you fire both relays, nothing happens.
2. Use a voltage divider to read the voltage. Scale it to fit in the ADC on
the chip.
3. Use a shunt and an amplifier to read the current. Adjust the amplifier
gain to make full current about 75% of the full scale input voltage of the
ADC on the chip.
4. The hardware is trivial. It is the software that will take some time.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 6:20 PM
Subject: Stuffing the brains into my variac
> I'm looking for component/circuit ideas for adding some brains to my
> charger. It is a simple rectified variac setup. The variac is
motorized
> and I have a basic stamp I want to use as the brains. Anyone have any
> favorite ideas for measuring voltage and current and feeding the info to
the
> Stamp. Any good ideas about what to use to drive the motor? The variac
is
> rated for 20 amps and 180 volts. It's the Staco #033-6565 being sold at
> http://www.fairradio.com/variac.htm.
> I will be going on a business trip in a couple of weeks and thought this
> might be a good way to keep myself occupied in the hotel, but in order
to
do
> so I will need to be prepared ahead of time.
>
> damon
>
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I seem to be gettiing lousy range with the Electravan. It has a state of
charge meter that doesn't seem to lie so I trust it. When I took my first
long round trip 10 miles. I went 5 miles and the meter said 50%. I waited
for one hour and the meter read 70%. Huge bounce back. I drove home and
the meter read 40% when I got home. I didn't wait for bounce back. The
range has been going like that untill today when I charged the day before
and didn't drive. I took the car to the shop for alignment and after 50
yards it registered 85%. By the time I went the one mile to the Shop it was
around 69%. Is this normal for Lead acid letting it sit for a day and have
that kind of loss? Reading 50% on the meter is between 122 & 123VDC..
Verified with a good meter. I get a gut feeling that something is binding
but amps stay low. I have to try real hard to get it to pull 100 amps.
Full throttle taking off can draw 150 amps but not for long. The truck
accelerates well. What am I doing wrong????????
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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Relax Ot... the Zilla will drive a Albright...
My Bubba stays with Goldie's Raptor 1200.
You are right about the funky PWM drive in the Bubba, a T-Rex could open a
bubba with the radiated magnetic fields on the back side of the controller.
Mounting a Bubba with in 12 inches of a 1200 amp DCP... is not a safe idea.
Hummm DCPs used a 200 volt Fet, but no snubber....I just checked the old
schematic..
Wern't we the First to have integrated contactor drives and precharge???
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: She's dead Jim
> > Also I have a Ap Note from Otmar basicly Brow beating me into making
> >certain a snubber diode was a cross the relays in Gp.
>
> :-)
>
> >Ot doen't have to warn me. I would have done it anyways. I do not have
> >snubber on my Bubbas. Since they take over contactor control inside the
> >relay.
>
> You Wish!
> Kilovacs have a very crude PWM in the contactor (which causes a lot
> of electrical noise) but I don't think it includes snubbing action.
> Use the diodes I sent you, they were chosen to work properly on the
> Bubbas as well as others.
>
>
> --
> -Otmar-
> http://www.CafeElectric.com
> Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
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