EV Digest 4112
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Torque Steer
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Contact GM to save the remaining EV1s
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Torque steer
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Need Vicor DC/DC
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Vego swingarm needed.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: New venting batt
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Lots of DCP's without smoke available! was RE: More water
dreams...
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) >
> Subject:
> Re: 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
by canev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Surplus motor specification
by mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Contact GM to save the remaining EV1s
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: >> Subject:> Re: 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Two 200Ah TS Cells Available?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor here is another thought for you.
You might want to carefully check the upper control arms, especially the
passenger side. The pivots on the inboard side often wear oddly and allow
excessive motion. This seems to be a fairly high wear item on 4th
generation (88-91) Civic and CRXs. When they go bad they can allow the
upper end of the spindle to shift quite a bit, seriously effecting
suspension geometry. I think the passenger side arm wears a bit faster
because most folks turn left at higher speeds than they turn right (trying
to clear oncoming traffic) and thus transfer more stress onto that side.
You may have to lift the car on stand to check this, with the weight of the
car on it, it may not move by hand.
I've had to replace the upper arms on all three of our 4gen Civics.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Back in '92, I saw my first "solar powered" dragster (in California), 0-60
in 4 seconds.
I was amazed.
This is the way they did it.
Custom dragster frame (not very high tech).
solar cells to charge two 12V lead acid batteries (group 24).
When they were full, they ran a pump which compressed nitrogen in tanks.
When the light turned green, they opened the valve and the nitrogen was
released through a system which rotated the rear tires...very fast.
It basically was a one time shot. 12 hours of daylight for 6 seconds of
fun.
I have pictures if anyone is interested.
Marc Kohler
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 1:11 PM
Subject: Re: World's First Solar-Powered Drag Race
Roy LeMeur wrote:
This is a totally different take on it coming from the Solar
Raycing community. I don't think we have seen too many of these
guys at NEDRA EVents :^D
One of the NEDRA races also had an electrathon race. They are a lot like
solar cars. Someone even had a solar powered EV there, though he was
just driving around the parking lot with it.
I would bet money that there "are not any" solar electric drag
racers out there.
Seems logical. The solar cars all seem to be built for other purposes,
though of course you can drag race anything if you're so inclined.
We have been tossing ideas around endlessly at work, FT (Don
Crabtree) and I have spent a bunch of time talking about it.
Still trying to get the Cloud brothers interested... :^0
It may come down to who can spend the most money for the best
and most and lightest weight PV cells (can you say ISS?) that
will fit within the 7' by 20' maximum platform specified.
That's my thought as well. I think races that are won mainly by who can
spend the most are rather boring. The way they set up their rules
disallows creative solutions, and means whoever can afford the best PV
panels is the likely winner.
It might have been more fun if they specified the PV panel everyone had
to use. With a reasonable claiming rule (like the $2,500 for the high
school cars), it could be a lot more interesting. Being clever and
getting the details right would count for more than money.
In the future, they will definitely have to have wattage classes.
Maybe. But limiting the square footage basically does the same thing.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We can't all be at the vigil to save the 70 or so EV1s
in Burbank, Calif. but we can contact GM to urge them
to sell the cars instead of destroying them. Below is
some contact info. Give them a call. Send an email or
fax. Drop them a postcard. Plus here's a sample letter
that of course you should tweak as you wish.
And for the guy on the EV list who asked for the
address in order to send the vigil keepers a pizza,
see the info at: http://ev1.org. You can even
communicate with people there, and ask what toppings
they want!
Robert A. Lutz, Chairman, GM Product Development:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Richard Wagoner, President and CEO
Both at: 315-556-5000 (ph) or 315-556-5108 (fax)
General Motors, 300 Renaissance Center, Detroit, MI
48265-3000
In the GM Advanced Technology Vehicles (GMATV)
division:
Bob Purcell, Executive Director
Kenneth Stewart, Marketing Director, New Ventures
Jill Banaszynski, GMATV
248-680-5509 (ph) or 248-680-5600 (fax)
1996 Tecnology Dr., Troy, MI 48083-4243
Dear Mr. Lutz:
Taxpayers contributed thousands of dollars to make the
EV1 electric cars, and people want to buy them.
Instead, GM is destroying the remaining EV1s, even
though you never destroyed previous cars that went out
of production. That's not right.
GM should sell the more than 70 EV1s in Burbank.
People are clamoring at the gates of that lot in a
round-the-clock vigil. You also should agree to sell
the other remaining EV1s that are still being driven
in various parts of the country. I want to buy one.
Many other people do, too. You can't claim that no one
wants them.
Do the right thing. Sell the EV1s, restart production
of EVs, and stop polluting the planet.
Sincerely,
Sherry Boschert
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor, it seems like we are narrowing in on the problem
I changed a whole bunch of things all at once on my pickup when I was
autocrossing and was lucky to have an expert around to sort it all out.
One thing I did that was a BIG BIG mistake was use short stiff front
springs instead of drop spindles to lower the front of the truck.
This put the suspension so far off the bump steer curve that -3 degrees
camber had to be dialed in before each event.
The truck used to skate around during corner entrance and it was mostly
because the pivots on the steering linkage didn't line up anymore with
the pivot points of the lower arms
This is really important, When I lowered it, my steering wheel was
off center. I had to change a control rod end to allow the adjustment
back to the center
but the ACRX probably has a rack and pinion with very close control rod
mounting points.
The bump steer graph looks like a zener diode plot on some cars and if
you get to far form center it gets wild. This caused unequal toe out
during dive.
Could there be a difference in the way the motor mounts allow the engine
/tranny to pivot during load.
ie. Ice/tranny combo pivoted around axle shaft center and new mount
has an instantanous center around the center of the Electric motor ?
I have heard of people putting camera's under the hood and also
tieing string as tell-tails
There is a book "how to make your car handle" by Fred Puhn that has a
lot of good info in it
This is not a shameless plug, I have the book and it is a good book,
Long after I bought it I found out that one of the cars pictured in the
book belonged to production manager at the time.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.0.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Feb 2005 at 13:54, Ivo Jara wrote:
> that's odd ain't it ? how is it that those people got those EV-1s ?
GM made a limited number of EV1s available to educational institutions and
museums. The batteries in these cars were removed and the drive systems
mutilated before they were transported to the recipients. This was to
prevent them from ever again being driven (at least without extensive
modifications).
Check the list archives. Someone here was (maybe still is) a student at a
university which received one. He posted a fairly extensive description of
the car and what had been done to it in order to make it unusable.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
War is an option whose time has passed; peace is the only
option for the future. At present we occupy a treacherous
no man's land between peace and war, a time of growing fear
that our miltary might has expanded beyond our capacity to
control it and our political differences [have] widened beyond
our ability to bridge them ... the only way to achieve a
practical, livable peace in a world of competing nations is
to take the profit out of war.
-- Richard Nixon, "Real Peace"(1983)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Feb 2005 at 12:04, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> How about checking with the company that bought up all the parts and is
> now supporting them?
That would be Myers Motors, Tallmadge OH. It's about a half hour from here.
Rod Hower does contract work for them. I don't have the address right
here, but you can find them in a web search.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state
is absolute ... where no minister would tell his parishoners for
whom to vote, where no church or church school is granted any
public funds or political preference ... where no religious body
seeks to impose its will ... upon the general populace or the public
acts of its officials.
-- President John F Kennedy
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I talked with the guy that is organizing the solar drag race today.
They need to find a portable timing setup.
I thought I recalled someone on this list saying that they had one.
If anyone can kick down the use of one of their setups for the solar drag
races it would be greatly appreciated.
A quick search brought up these companies-
http://www.raceamerica.com/
http://onealengineering.com/index.htm
Talk to me or contact him directly.
Organizer contact info-
Jim White, P.E.
Senior Energy Services Engineer
Chelan County Public Utility District
327 North Wenatchee Ave.
Wenatchee, Washington 98801
(509)661-4829
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks!
Roy
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I need a Vego 600 swing arm. Anybody got one and a wheel. I have tires.
I'm trying to make a pusher trailer out of a damaged Vego 600 frame.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm wrestling with a new battery in an old string right now too.
>
> Seems like I have the opposite problem. The new one takes
> significantly longer (extra hour) to reach acceptance voltage than the
> others. I'm trying to figure out if I simply got a stale battery, or
> if this is normal.
>
> Many sources state that new batteries have less capacity than "broken-in"
> ones.
>
> What I haven't been able to find is information on how new batteries
> react differently to charging vs broken in ones. What's the group
> consensus?
>
> Richard
New batteries typically have lower resistance than old batteries. SInce
you are charging the batteries in a series string (I assume) this means
the new battery will have a lower charge voltage than the other batteries
for a given charging current (Ohms law). I.e. the other batteries might
be seeing 7.4V (assuming 6V battery) and the new one might only see 7.3V.
Lower charging voltage means longer charging period, at least that's my
take on it.
Use a voltmeter and measure the battery voltages during charge and see
what's happening.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm guessing your state of charge meter is basically just measuring
voltage (a poor indicator of state of charge in EVs).
If so, and I'm assuming it's cold where you're at, battery voltage will
drop when the batteries get cold and will sag to much lower voltages while
they are cold.
This is why cold batteries have lower capacity, because the popint where
you consider them "dead" (fully discharged) remains the same, (1.67V -
1.75V per cell, depending).
If it's cold out, you're not doing /anything/ wrong, just experiencing the
joys of winter driving in an EV.
FWIW, one of the most effective ways to keep your batteries warm is to
charge/discharge them every day. If you have some insulation around the
pack (say 1-2 inches of styrofoam) this can keep the batteries at around
80� even when the outside temps drop into the 30s, at least it did with my
batteries.
If I didn't drive it for a day though, their temp would drop down to 60�
or so and range would drop dramatically.
> I seem to be gettiing lousy range with the Electravan. It has a state of
> charge meter that doesn't seem to lie so I trust it. When I took my first
> long round trip 10 miles. I went 5 miles and the meter said 50%. I
> waited
> for one hour and the meter read 70%. Huge bounce back. I drove home and
> the meter read 40% when I got home. I didn't wait for bounce back. The
> range has been going like that untill today when I charged the day before
> and didn't drive. I took the car to the shop for alignment and after 50
> yards it registered 85%. By the time I went the one mile to the Shop it
> was
> around 69%. Is this normal for Lead acid letting it sit for a day and
> have
> that kind of loss? Reading 50% on the meter is between 122 & 123VDC..
> Verified with a good meter. I get a gut feeling that something is binding
> but amps stay low. I have to try real hard to get it to pull 100 amps.
> Full throttle taking off can draw 150 amps but not for long. The truck
> accelerates well. What am I doing wrong????????
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
This is very useful information now that DCP isn't repairing the power
stage of the Raptor and T-Rex controllers! While upgrading my truck from 18
8V floodies to 24 6V'ers, and having let the smoke out of the T-Rex, I was
using the truck's Raptor in the car at 156 volts (disconnected four YT's).
I remember asking DCP if I could run the voltage at 192V as long as I
disconnected it from the pack during charging and they said yes. Nothing
was mentioned about the precharge wire, so I'm glad I didn't actually try
that!
Anyone need a 1000A T-Rex with no smoke remaining? If interested make me an
offer and pay shipping from DCP, assuming they still have it!
Thanks,
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:46:45 -0700
>From: "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>For example, I smoked my 156V Raptor by placing 350 volts across it. I
>had it disconnected from the pack, but the precharge wire exposed it to
>the high voltage, letting the smoke out of the controller. I replaced
>it with a T-Rex which is good to about 400V, so if I do the same series
>of stupid things, the controller will live.
>
>Anyone need a 600 A raptor with no smoke remaining?
>
>
>Lynn
>92 Civic, 144 Volts
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We have had very good results with a Pair of the 72 volt Delta-Q
chargers on 144 volt vehicles or one 72 volt and one 48 volt charger on
120 volt vehicles.
Using two chargers keeps the pack better equalized.
They are sealed and can be mounted anywhere, they are power factor
corrected.
Integrated battery temperature probe.
They are CSA, UL, CE certified (keeps your house insurance company happy).
They are programmable and isolated and will plug into anything from 85
to 265 volts (110 - 220)
We have found that two chargers will charge 12 amps into the battery
from a 20 amp 110 volt outlet and if you only have 15 amp outlet a 50'
#16 extension cord will cut the voltage down far enough that the
chargers will cut back to 10 amps output and charge from the 15 amp outlet.
We have installed this setup on a few 144 volt vehicles and one 120
volt, so far with very happy customers.
It is also the stock charger on all our Might-E Truck Jr's and we supply
them to an electric boat manufacturer, no failures to date.
Plug and forget is what its all about.
$600 each. $1100/pair
That wasn't meant to sound like an ad just the facts. :)
BFN
Randy
> The four most popular chargers for a 144 volt system, are, in order of
> price:
> RUSSCO SC18-120 (USA non isolated with GFCI) with boost $812.
> K & W BC-20 (USA non isolated with GFCI) with boost $820.
> ZIVAN NG3 (Italy isolated) $879.
> PFC PFC-20 (USA non isolated without GFCI) $1500
> Prices are from EV Parts and KTA Services.
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't EVTC have one? Might be able to find them, see if they could do a
loan? David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:26 AM
Subject: Portable Drag Racing Setup
I talked with the guy that is organizing the solar drag race today.
They need to find a portable timing setup.
I thought I recalled someone on this list saying that they had one.
If anyone can kick down the use of one of their setups for the solar drag
races it would be greatly appreciated.
A quick search brought up these companies-
http://www.raceamerica.com/
http://onealengineering.com/index.htm
Talk to me or contact him directly.
Organizer contact info-
Jim White, P.E.
Senior Energy Services Engineer
Chelan County Public Utility District
327 North Wenatchee Ave.
Wenatchee, Washington 98801
(509)661-4829
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks!
Roy
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been an observer on the forum for a while. Maybe the group could
point me to where I could find some information on a military surplus
motor.
It is a 200 VAC, 60 hp, 400 Hz motor.
Several part numbers.
6105-00-883-9049 National Stock Number (NSN)
2K8496Y3 General Electric, Direct Current Motor and Generator
230-0259-010 General Electric, Armamanet and Electrical Systems
Dept.
--
mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you Sherry, i have sent one and am getting all my friends and fellow
EVers to do likewise. Maybe not as well written and concise as yours but I
think that with a little effort on all our parts, "Bob" will likely have to
change either his position or his e-mail address. Regards David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherry Boschert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>; "SFEAA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:11 PM
Subject: Contact GM to save the remaining EV1s
We can't all be at the vigil to save the 70 or so EV1s
in Burbank, Calif. but we can contact GM to urge them
to sell the cars instead of destroying them. Below is
some contact info. Give them a call. Send an email or
fax. Drop them a postcard. Plus here's a sample letter
that of course you should tweak as you wish.
And for the guy on the EV list who asked for the
address in order to send the vigil keepers a pizza,
see the info at: http://ev1.org. You can even
communicate with people there, and ask what toppings
they want!
Robert A. Lutz, Chairman, GM Product Development:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Richard Wagoner, President and CEO
Both at: 315-556-5000 (ph) or 315-556-5108 (fax)
General Motors, 300 Renaissance Center, Detroit, MI
48265-3000
In the GM Advanced Technology Vehicles (GMATV)
division:
Bob Purcell, Executive Director
Kenneth Stewart, Marketing Director, New Ventures
Jill Banaszynski, GMATV
248-680-5509 (ph) or 248-680-5600 (fax)
1996 Tecnology Dr., Troy, MI 48083-4243
Dear Mr. Lutz:
Taxpayers contributed thousands of dollars to make the
EV1 electric cars, and people want to buy them.
Instead, GM is destroying the remaining EV1s, even
though you never destroyed previous cars that went out
of production. That's not right.
GM should sell the more than 70 EV1s in Burbank.
People are clamoring at the gates of that lot in a
round-the-clock vigil. You also should agree to sell
the other remaining EV1s that are still being driven
in various parts of the country. I want to buy one.
Many other people do, too. You can't claim that no one
wants them.
Do the right thing. Sell the EV1s, restart production
of EVs, and stop polluting the planet.
Sincerely,
Sherry Boschert
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVTC disbanded many years ago. They would have sold off their assets. My
question is, why they don't just go to a local strip.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
Didn't EVTC have one? Might be able to find them, see if they could do a
loan? David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:26 AM
Subject: Portable Drag Racing Setup
I talked with the guy that is organizing the solar drag race today.
They need to find a portable timing setup.
I thought I recalled someone on this list saying that they had one.
If anyone can kick down the use of one of their setups for the solar drag
races it would be greatly appreciated.
A quick search brought up these companies-
http://www.raceamerica.com/
http://onealengineering.com/index.htm
Talk to me or contact him directly.
Organizer contact info-
Jim White, P.E.
Senior Energy Services Engineer
Chelan County Public Utility District
327 North Wenatchee Ave.
Wenatchee, Washington 98801
(509)661-4829
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks!
Roy
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
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--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone had experience with chargers from ElectroCraft in Canada --
http://home.interlog.com/~dgv ? Their EVC205 model charges up to 168V at
13-14 amps from 110V or 220V AC. Isolated. Weighs around 7 pounds. Cost is
about $1500.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of canev
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 10:34 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: >> Subject:> Re: 144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
144vdc charger options needed, was Re: help
References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
We have had very good results with a Pair of the 72 volt Delta-Q
chargers on 144 volt vehicles or one 72 volt and one 48 volt charger on
120 volt vehicles.
Using two chargers keeps the pack better equalized.
They are sealed and can be mounted anywhere, they are power factor
corrected.
Integrated battery temperature probe.
They are CSA, UL, CE certified (keeps your house insurance company happy).
They are programmable and isolated and will plug into anything from 85
to 265 volts (110 - 220)
We have found that two chargers will charge 12 amps into the battery
from a 20 amp 110 volt outlet and if you only have 15 amp outlet a 50'
#16 extension cord will cut the voltage down far enough that the
chargers will cut back to 10 amps output and charge from the 15 amp outlet.
We have installed this setup on a few 144 volt vehicles and one 120
volt, so far with very happy customers.
It is also the stock charger on all our Might-E Truck Jr's and we supply
them to an electric boat manufacturer, no failures to date.
Plug and forget is what its all about.
$600 each. $1100/pair
That wasn't meant to sound like an ad just the facts. :)
BFN
Randy
> The four most popular chargers for a 144 volt system, are, in order of
> price:
> RUSSCO SC18-120 (USA non isolated with GFCI) with boost $812.
> K & W BC-20 (USA non isolated with GFCI) with boost $820.
> ZIVAN NG3 (Italy isolated) $879.
> PFC PFC-20 (USA non isolated without GFCI) $1500
> Prices are from EV Parts and KTA Services.
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just redesigned my battery box and it looks like I'll have room for 2
additional 200AH TS cells. Anyone on the list with 2 cells in good
condition that they'd like to sell at a used price?
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NICE..
When does PIR open for friday nights???
We both need track time, and head knocking time.
I need to find the Bremerton schedual...
It's a sunny El Nino year, we need to take some of this Northwest sun and
get some track time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:03 PM
Subject: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
> Hello to All,
>
> >From Lawrence:
>
> > You might take a look at Al Godfrey's latest porsche. While the front
is
> > full it is hardly cluttered. You can compare it to John's Zombie on page
4 though that might be unfair.
> > The Zombie is neat but designed for quick access as a drag car.
> >
> >
> >From Damon:
>
> > This picture also does not include the new SCR that John installed for
his
> > afterburner bypass mode. It is fairly large and looks like something
> > straight out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab.
> >
>
> Interesting reading...I too, admire Al Godfrey's work. He's told me, that
the inspiration
> for the way he puts his EVs together came from his first meeting with Blue
Meanie at one
> of the early days VEVA electric car shows. Al does a great job with
design, layout, and
> detail.
>
> Uh hmmmm...as to White Zombie, yes, quick access is extremely important
when designing and
> building a racing machine, but it's also important to do sano work, so
that those who come
> to watch the car race, then gather around it in the pits, see quality
workmanship and can
> get a good view of things. I've often thought of putting both motors in
the back of the
> car, just ahead of the rear end and under a new, widened driveline tunnel.
This would
> eliminate lots of rotational mass in a long driveline, and would really
open up the
> under-hood area, but, it would also get rid of the most exciting aspect
for gasser dudes
> first being exposed to electric power....seeing those two electric motors
under the hood!
> Additionally, it would make it nearly impossible to check the brushes,
connectors, coms,
> etc.....all VERY important track side! It's also helpful that once under
way down the
> track, through the wide-open radiator grill, the motors get cooled off
with 100 mph wind.
>
> Several of my good friends have recently pointed out, how the Zombie is
starting to loose
> it's clean look under the hood, and that I need to tidy things up a
bit...I agree. In
> fact, I'm currently doing just that, as together with my friend and
coworker Tim Brehm,
> we have been working long weekend days and nights redesigning areas of the
car.
>
> After the last 13.6 second run at Woodburn, that old bug-a-boo of mine,
that relentless
> power train vibration the car's always had, got much worse. We've torn the
car down and
> have checked everything again. Problems found this past Saturday:
>
> (1) The rear motor's output shaft flanged hub had come loose, even though
all three of its
> set screws are doped with red Loctite, and it had slid back a half inch on
the shaft towards
> the rear of the car.
>
> (2) Repositioned and re-secured, the hub still has a wobble that 'may' be
the source of
> all the past and present vibration problems. This weekend, a dial
indicator will be used to
> further check this out.
>
> (3) The first half of the two piece driveline, due to the slid-back motor
hub, had shifted
> back against the carrier bearing to where the grease cup was scraping
against the
> bearing's outer race.
>
> (4) One of the emergency disconnect's BIG power cables had moved a bit and
was being ground
> on by the front driveline stub...not good!
>
> (5) The front motor's splined output shaft hub that is part of the three
piece
> motor-to-motor coupler, had come loose and allowed lots of slack between
the motor shafts.
>
> (6) Both rear brake drums were dragging badly, to where it took two people
to push the
> car on level ground. Once the wheels are unbolted, the drums fit freely
and do not drag
> at all....we're still investigating this.
>
> Finding all the above, and considering a battery pack that was tired and
needed to be cycled
> several times to bring them back up to high power levels, it's amazing
that the car was
> able to
> run a 13.6 at Woodburn!
>
>
> Good things to report:
>
> (1) The car is now fully loaded up with the 2005 race season's 288V pack
of Orbitals. Tim and
> I ran the Orbitals through the table saw and made up all new 4/0 wiring
for the extra 4
> back batteries. Although there's 160 extra lbs. of weight in the car, it
gained another 80
> hp of battery
> power bringing the total pack power up to 494 hp of electrical energy
(each Orbital pulled
> to 7 volts at ~ 2200 amps)...hopefully, about 350 hp can be realized at
the motors!
>
> (2) The motors will be removed. The motor support mount will be shortened
about 4 inches.
> The motor-to-motor coupler may be swapped out for a different type that
will be strong,
> but shorter in length so the motors can sit closer to each other to fit in
the shortened
> motor support mount.
>
> (3) To make it so the motors can sit lower in the engine bay and be
positioned
> horizontally instead of at their present ~ 15 degree rake that is causing
incorrect
> driveline angles, the car's cross member is being drastically modified
with a dropped center
> section to allow the motor support mount to sit 3 inches lower. The
steering idler arm and
> tie rod are being redesigned to be dropped accordingly as well.
>
> (4) A new, custom machined rear motor output shaft hub with an
interference fit is planned
> as part of the new design.
>
> (5) Now that the Dutchman rear end setup has the Ford 9 inch input flange
dead centered in
> the car's driveline tunnel (it used to be offset to the passenger side by
4 inches), the
> two piece driveline and center carrier bearing are being dumped in favor
of an all new,
> large diameter single piece aluminum driveline.
>
> (7) The Afterburner bypass will be perfected, with a new SCR and improved
turn-off
> features.
>
> (8) If the pack seems to have any problems (batteries are now 1.5 years
old),
> Exide will be contacted for a new set. I'm also working with others
towards trying a 336V
> pack of 26 ahr Hawkers that will shave 400+ lbs. out of the car, but
possibly bring back battery
> destruction problems :-)
>
> Along with all this, the motors will be dressed up with new eye candy type
paint and
> polished aluminum end bells. The under-hood high power wring will be
totally redone. The
> control wiring looms will be tidied up and better organized. Under-hood
lights will make
> nighttime viewing much better for race fans. Lots of other improvements
are in store, too,
> including a freshened-up interior. I had an offer last Fall, from a small
local body and paint
> shop, to repair some minor dings and repaint the car, so that might
happen, too.
>
> I'm determined to go deeper into the 12's, and am shooting for a 110 mph
trap speed.
> The above mods should go a long way to helping me achieve this, but if
there's one thing
> I've learned as I continue to gain more experience with EV drag racing,
it's to be more realistic
> about achieving my goals. I know that a 12.2 @ 110 mph isn't going to
happen instantly .
> More than likely, it will take many trips to the track just to get back
into the 12's, but,
> you'll certainly hear me hootn' and hollern' when the car does anything
better than a
> 12.99 ... it 'will' happen. Maybe by the time Wooodburn comes around in
late July, mid
> 12's @ 104-105 mph will be on hand.
>
> This should be a fun year of EV drag racing. I'm planning the Wayland
Invitational, a
> NEDRA sanctioned EVent to coincide with the Woodburn races. Imagine the
reaction from
> hundreds of race fans, as on a Friday nightvtricked out high power EVs
descend on PIR to
> mix it up with the rice burners and muscle cars. Could you imagine what
these guys and
> gals will do, if Maniac Mazda rolled onto the track? Imagine, Rudman with
showing up with
> a Z2K, Orbital powered, 200+V Goldie. Geez, it makes me salivate, just
thinking of seeing
> a Camaro get dusted by a little 'ol Fiesta with batteries! Bob Salem,
bring that VW pickup
> back with
> sticky meats and axles work...show those import freaks what an electric
pickup can do. Mr.
> Hall, got that twin motor sedan ready at 240V...low 12s, high 11s?? Rich
Brown, any chance
> of getting Dual'n 7 up here? Hmm, maybe Father Time will have his BIG
motored, narrowed VW
> bug
> finished by then!!vAll video cameras are welcome, as the footage will be
priceless!
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
March 25th is the first day on the track. Go to
http://www.bremertonraceway.com/ and click on Racing Schedule.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
NICE..
When does PIR open for friday nights???
We both need track time, and head knocking time.
I need to find the Bremerton schedual...
It's a sunny El Nino year, we need to take some of this Northwest sun and
get some track time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:03 PM
Subject: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
Hello to All,
>From Lawrence:
> You might take a look at Al Godfrey's latest porsche. While the front
is
> full it is hardly cluttered. You can compare it to John's Zombie on
> page
4 though that might be unfair.
> The Zombie is neat but designed for quick access as a drag car.
>
>
>From Damon:
> This picture also does not include the new SCR that John installed for
his
> afterburner bypass mode. It is fairly large and looks like something
> straight out of Dr. Frankenstein's lab.
>
Interesting reading...I too, admire Al Godfrey's work. He's told me, that
the inspiration
for the way he puts his EVs together came from his first meeting with
Blue
Meanie at one
of the early days VEVA electric car shows. Al does a great job with
design, layout, and
detail.
Uh hmmmm...as to White Zombie, yes, quick access is extremely important
when designing and
building a racing machine, but it's also important to do sano work, so
that those who come
to watch the car race, then gather around it in the pits, see quality
workmanship and can
get a good view of things. I've often thought of putting both motors in
the back of the
car, just ahead of the rear end and under a new, widened driveline
tunnel.
This would
eliminate lots of rotational mass in a long driveline, and would really
open up the
under-hood area, but, it would also get rid of the most exciting aspect
for gasser dudes
first being exposed to electric power....seeing those two electric motors
under the hood!
Additionally, it would make it nearly impossible to check the brushes,
connectors, coms,
etc.....all VERY important track side! It's also helpful that once under
way down the
track, through the wide-open radiator grill, the motors get cooled off
with 100 mph wind.
Several of my good friends have recently pointed out, how the Zombie is
starting to loose
it's clean look under the hood, and that I need to tidy things up a
bit...I agree. In
fact, I'm currently doing just that, as together with my friend and
coworker Tim Brehm,
we have been working long weekend days and nights redesigning areas of
the
car.
After the last 13.6 second run at Woodburn, that old bug-a-boo of mine,
that relentless
power train vibration the car's always had, got much worse. We've torn
the
car down and
have checked everything again. Problems found this past Saturday:
(1) The rear motor's output shaft flanged hub had come loose, even though
all three of its
set screws are doped with red Loctite, and it had slid back a half inch
on
the shaft towards
the rear of the car.
(2) Repositioned and re-secured, the hub still has a wobble that 'may' be
the source of
all the past and present vibration problems. This weekend, a dial
indicator will be used to
further check this out.
(3) The first half of the two piece driveline, due to the slid-back motor
hub, had shifted
back against the carrier bearing to where the grease cup was scraping
against the
bearing's outer race.
(4) One of the emergency disconnect's BIG power cables had moved a bit
and
was being ground
on by the front driveline stub...not good!
(5) The front motor's splined output shaft hub that is part of the three
piece
motor-to-motor coupler, had come loose and allowed lots of slack between
the motor shafts.
(6) Both rear brake drums were dragging badly, to where it took two
people
to push the
car on level ground. Once the wheels are unbolted, the drums fit freely
and do not drag
at all....we're still investigating this.
Finding all the above, and considering a battery pack that was tired and
needed to be cycled
several times to bring them back up to high power levels, it's amazing
that the car was
able to
run a 13.6 at Woodburn!
Good things to report:
(1) The car is now fully loaded up with the 2005 race season's 288V pack
of Orbitals. Tim and
I ran the Orbitals through the table saw and made up all new 4/0 wiring
for the extra 4
back batteries. Although there's 160 extra lbs. of weight in the car, it
gained another 80
hp of battery
power bringing the total pack power up to 494 hp of electrical energy
(each Orbital pulled
to 7 volts at ~ 2200 amps)...hopefully, about 350 hp can be realized at
the motors!
(2) The motors will be removed. The motor support mount will be shortened
about 4 inches.
The motor-to-motor coupler may be swapped out for a different type that
will be strong,
but shorter in length so the motors can sit closer to each other to fit
in
the shortened
motor support mount.
(3) To make it so the motors can sit lower in the engine bay and be
positioned
horizontally instead of at their present ~ 15 degree rake that is causing
incorrect
driveline angles, the car's cross member is being drastically modified
with a dropped center
section to allow the motor support mount to sit 3 inches lower. The
steering idler arm and
tie rod are being redesigned to be dropped accordingly as well.
(4) A new, custom machined rear motor output shaft hub with an
interference fit is planned
as part of the new design.
(5) Now that the Dutchman rear end setup has the Ford 9 inch input flange
dead centered in
the car's driveline tunnel (it used to be offset to the passenger side by
4 inches), the
two piece driveline and center carrier bearing are being dumped in favor
of an all new,
large diameter single piece aluminum driveline.
(7) The Afterburner bypass will be perfected, with a new SCR and improved
turn-off
features.
(8) If the pack seems to have any problems (batteries are now 1.5 years
old),
Exide will be contacted for a new set. I'm also working with others
towards trying a 336V
pack of 26 ahr Hawkers that will shave 400+ lbs. out of the car, but
possibly bring back battery
destruction problems :-)
Along with all this, the motors will be dressed up with new eye candy
type
paint and
polished aluminum end bells. The under-hood high power wring will be
totally redone. The
control wiring looms will be tidied up and better organized. Under-hood
lights will make
nighttime viewing much better for race fans. Lots of other improvements
are in store, too,
including a freshened-up interior. I had an offer last Fall, from a small
local body and paint
shop, to repair some minor dings and repaint the car, so that might
happen, too.
I'm determined to go deeper into the 12's, and am shooting for a 110 mph
trap speed.
The above mods should go a long way to helping me achieve this, but if
there's one thing
I've learned as I continue to gain more experience with EV drag racing,
it's to be more realistic
about achieving my goals. I know that a 12.2 @ 110 mph isn't going to
happen instantly .
More than likely, it will take many trips to the track just to get back
into the 12's, but,
you'll certainly hear me hootn' and hollern' when the car does anything
better than a
12.99 ... it 'will' happen. Maybe by the time Wooodburn comes around in
late July, mid
12's @ 104-105 mph will be on hand.
This should be a fun year of EV drag racing. I'm planning the Wayland
Invitational, a
NEDRA sanctioned EVent to coincide with the Woodburn races. Imagine the
reaction from
hundreds of race fans, as on a Friday nightvtricked out high power EVs
descend on PIR to
mix it up with the rice burners and muscle cars. Could you imagine what
these guys and
gals will do, if Maniac Mazda rolled onto the track? Imagine, Rudman with
showing up with
a Z2K, Orbital powered, 200+V Goldie. Geez, it makes me salivate, just
thinking of seeing
a Camaro get dusted by a little 'ol Fiesta with batteries! Bob Salem,
bring that VW pickup
back with
sticky meats and axles work...show those import freaks what an electric
pickup can do. Mr.
Hall, got that twin motor sedan ready at 240V...low 12s, high 11s?? Rich
Brown, any chance
of getting Dual'n 7 up here? Hmm, maybe Father Time will have his BIG
motored, narrowed VW
bug
finished by then!!vAll video cameras are welcome, as the footage will be
priceless!
See Ya.....John Wayland
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005
--- End Message ---
