EV Digest 4113
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Contact GM to save the remaining EV1s
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: What are the upper voltage limits of DC motors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 12 v system battery question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Marc Michon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) using a brush motor after long sitting
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Any news or updates?
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Constant rpm
by "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 12 v system battery question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Weight and Balance (was Re: 12 v system battery question)
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) paging Steve Ciciora- your e-mail is bouncing
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: 12 v system battery question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I sent mine!!
Sherry Boschert wrote:
see the info at: http://ev1.org.
Robert A. Lutz, Chairman, GM Product Development:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Richard Wagoner, President and CEO
Both at: 315-556-5000 (ph) or 315-556-5108 (fax)
> General Motors, 300 Renaissance Center, Detroit, MI
> 48265-3000
These numbers, both ph and fax:
"has been disconnected and is no longer in service"
AUHH! Area Code 313 ! (313) 556-5000, Fax line didn't work.
phone opperators available: 7am - 6pm M - F est.
Oh I'm so tempted to "In case of emergency"
call their security to let them no that:
" HAY! SOMEONE IS CRUSHING YOUR CARS !!! "
" QUICK, MAKE THEM STOP!! "
" Click "
In the GM Advanced Technology Vehicles (GMATV)
division:
Bob Purcell, Executive Director
Kenneth Stewart, Marketing Director, New Ventures
Jill Banaszynski, GMATV
248-680-5509 (ph) or 248-680-5600 (fax)
> 1996 Tecnology Dr., Troy, MI 48083-4243
Ringing! Transfered to Voice Mail!
Found "Cliff Lutz", but no "Purcell" in the directory.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Ok; if efficiency is your god, then wind your motor with silver wire!
>> Silver also happens to be mechanically stronger than copper, which
>> also helps.
M.G. wrote:
> Yes but which has a higher melting point?
Silver melts at 960 deg.C; copper at 1083 deg.C. However, your
insulation will have failed long before this, so the question is
academic.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those that use a DC/DC converter along with a 12 volt battery in
their conversions, what battery do you use. In particular I am wonder
how heavy of a battery people use.
Thanks,
John O'Connor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have used everything from a 2 pound gel cell to a 60 pound group 24. It
all depends on how long you want the car to run after the DCDC converter
dies.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:07 PM
Subject: 12 v system battery question
> For those that use a DC/DC converter along with a 12 volt battery in
> their conversions, what battery do you use. In particular I am wonder
> how heavy of a battery people use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John O'Connor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm in San Francisco and the temp varies from 50� to 70� even in winter. My
Lester has a winter/summer switch. At what temperature should one switch to
the winter setting? LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
I'm guessing your state of charge meter is basically just measuring
voltage (a poor indicator of state of charge in EVs).
If so, and I'm assuming it's cold where you're at, battery voltage will
drop when the batteries get cold and will sag to much lower voltages while
they are cold.
This is why cold batteries have lower capacity, because the popint where
you consider them "dead" (fully discharged) remains the same, (1.67V -
1.75V per cell, depending).
If it's cold out, you're not doing /anything/ wrong, just experiencing the
joys of winter driving in an EV.
FWIW, one of the most effective ways to keep your batteries warm is to
charge/discharge them every day. If you have some insulation around the
pack (say 1-2 inches of styrofoam) this can keep the batteries at around
80� even when the outside temps drop into the 30s, at least it did with my
batteries.
If I didn't drive it for a day though, their temp would drop down to 60�
or so and range would drop dramatically.
I seem to be gettiing lousy range with the Electravan. It has a state of
charge meter that doesn't seem to lie so I trust it. When I took my
first
long round trip 10 miles. I went 5 miles and the meter said 50%. I
waited
for one hour and the meter read 70%. Huge bounce back. I drove home and
the meter read 40% when I got home. I didn't wait for bounce back. The
range has been going like that untill today when I charged the day before
and didn't drive. I took the car to the shop for alignment and after 50
yards it registered 85%. By the time I went the one mile to the Shop it
was
around 69%. Is this normal for Lead acid letting it sit for a day and
have
that kind of loss? Reading 50% on the meter is between 122 & 123VDC..
Verified with a good meter. I get a gut feeling that something is
binding
but amps stay low. I have to try real hard to get it to pull 100 amps.
Full throttle taking off can draw 150 amps but not for long. The truck
accelerates well. What am I doing wrong????????
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question
> I have used everything from a 2 pound gel cell to a 60 pound group 24. It
> all depends on how long you want the car to run after the DCDC converter
> dies.
>
Or if you don't want to pop for a rather expemsive DC to dc, a good
quality Deep cycle somewhere in between , me , a Trojan Garden tracter, Deep
cycle size, and s Sears cheepo 12 volt charger, when the traction pack fed
the 12 volt ate, too. Did that for years, with a contacter controller. I
didn't have much DC draw inb a Rabbit, no Waylandsque Soind system, just
stock Rabbit electric stuff, crappy Radio cassette player. A good pair of
clipleads to tap 12 volts off the traction pack IF ya used up all the 12
volt juice, very rare. Traction pack usually went first<g>!
My two amps worth
Bob..........very happy ,now, with a Sevcon DC to dc.now!
and
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using a Trojan Deep Cycle and Marine 12 volt SCS 225 with the following
ratings:
665 CCA @ 0 degrees, 820 CA @ 32 degrees, 225 Reserve Minutes @ 25 amperes
and 130 AH.
You should have a DC/DC converter or any other type of unit that would be
able to charge this battery plus to supplied all your 12 volts needs.
I am using a 12 VDC @ 145 amps / 120 VAC @ 6000 watts rotating inverter that
is power off the pilot shaft of the main motor.
I am using a lot of 12 VDC amperes to run 6 cooling and heating fans and all
other 12 volt system of a car which takes about 50 amperes. The 120 VAC
systems takes about 2500 watts. This puts a total load of about 70 amps on
this unit with peaks up to about 100 amps at time.
The advantage of running this type of system off the main motor, is that
every time you are at coast down, the motor is mechanical REGEN into the
accessory drive which than all the onboard monitor meters are reading 0
amps!!
I used to have a DC/DC industrial converter made by the HoneyWell Company
that ran off the main battery pack that ran everything, which draw about 30
amps all the time with separate motors. What a maintenance nightmare that
was.
I simply the system, by using standard off the shelf units that you can get
at any auto parts store.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:07 AM
Subject: 12 v system battery question
> For those that use a DC/DC converter along with a 12 volt battery in
> their conversions, what battery do you use. In particular I am wonder
> how heavy of a battery people use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John O'Connor
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> (1) The rear motor's output shaft flanged hub had come loose, even though
all three of its
> set screws are doped with red Loctite, and it had slid back a half inch on
the shaft towards
> the rear of the car.
Locktite sleeve retainer works much better very strong stuff
you can also stake the set screw hit with center punch on hub
pushes metal into threads
Marco fresno,CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Roland Wiench <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am using a 12 VDC @ 145 amps / 120 VAC @ 6000 watts rotating inverter that
> is power off the pilot shaft of the main motor.
Is a rotating inverter the same thing as an automotive alternator?
The regen aspect sounds like a nice aside, but is this more efficient that just
a straight forward
DC/DC? Either way you are drawing energy from the pack most of the time. The
inverter draws from
the pack through the motor instead of straight from the pack like a DC/DC. I
have a lot of hills
so if this provided reasonable regen, it would work for me (even though it's
only on the 12 volt
side.)
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John O'Connor wrote:
For those that use a DC/DC converter along with a 12 volt battery in their
conversions, what battery do you use. In particular I am wonder how heavy
of a battery people use.
On my Civic I am using a U-1 size deep cycle gell-cell battery (a very used
wheelchair battery) and a Todd PC-50 DC/DC. My DC/DC is wired always on
with the circuit switched hi/low voltage with the ignition switch.
The Solectria Force uses no battery at all, just the DC/DC.
Previous EV's of mine used either the OEM battery (Ranger conversion) or a
group 24 deep cycle (Jet 007). The Jet was originally a total loss system
with out a DC/DC, I added a Todd PC-40LV.
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got some time to do some work on Paul's 2 motor Porsche , when I started
it up the one motor made lots of brush sparks , I let it idle for a few
minutes , but the arcing didn't go away , This motor worked fine 6 months
ago , the car was out side and has seen 2 hurricanes , so dirt or water has
been blown in it. I'm thinking that the brushes are not sliding in there
holders , motor is in a hard place to get to , . any easy ideas , taking the
motor out would not be easy .
Steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 2/20/05 7:05:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< got some time to do some work on Paul's 2 motor Porsche , when I started
it up the one motor made lots of brush sparks , I let it idle for a few
minutes , but the arcing didn't go away , This motor worked fine 6 months
ago , the car was out side and has seen 2 hurricanes , so dirt or water has
been blown in it. I'm thinking that the brushes are not sliding in there
holders , motor is in a hard place to get to , . any easy ideas , taking the
motor out would not be easy .
Steve cl >>
Hi Steve,Try using a brush seater stone,then blowing out the dust being
careful not to breath the dust. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The first thing you can do, is to clean the motor while it is in place and
running! Yes, I said running.
Go to a motor shop and pick up some motor cleaning solution, the type which
is a dielectric type. I have clean all types of motors, while running in
place. You can even fill a cleaning tank with this cleaner and submerse
running motors in it.
This works, if the motor has some exhaust air grills on the end or bottom of
the motor. After you clean the motor. Then test it out to see what the
results are.
Before you clean the motor, you should take a resistance test of the input
motor leads to motor chassis, voltage and ampere readings of the motor.
After you clean the motor, repeat these test to see if there is a
difference. On my motor, I will see a difference of resistance to ground of
50K ohm before cleaning and 20M ohm after cleaning.
When you at a motor shop, you can get some commentator cleaning stones and
maybe under cutting tools. This is the next step, if you have some arcing.
Also brush spring tension should be look at.
After you clean and maybe stoning the commentator, than you again spray the
motor while running with a dielectric compound that lubricated all moving
parts, which may be degraded by the the initial cleaning.
The electronics cleaning compounds are made by Chemelectronics, normally
found at electronics parts suppliers which is in a spray can that should not
be used on arcing type motors.
The motor cleaning compounds are normally found at some motor shops, is in
fluid form that you used in a spray bottle.
This can be done without removing the motor from the EV.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: using a brush motor after long sitting
> I got some time to do some work on Paul's 2 motor Porsche , when I started
> it up the one motor made lots of brush sparks , I let it idle for a few
> minutes , but the arcing didn't go away , This motor worked fine 6 months
> ago , the car was out side and has seen 2 hurricanes , so dirt or water
> has
> been blown in it. I'm thinking that the brushes are not sliding in there
> holders , motor is in a hard place to get to , . any easy ideas , taking
> the
> motor out would not be easy .
> Steve clunn
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using an Optima BlueTop.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 11:07 PM
Subject: 12 v system battery question
> For those that use a DC/DC converter along with a 12 volt battery in
> their conversions, what battery do you use. In particular I am wonder
> how heavy of a battery people use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John O'Connor
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi-
Update on the"Volks Dragon";
All of the suspention and brakes have been replaced with new parts from
"Auto Sport."
The front frame head had to be modified to accommodate the new center
location of
the steering box. The inner nose assembly will also need to be modified.
The new floor pans have been sectioned and temporarily screwed together
for fitting into the chassis, the inside edges are un trimmed just as
they came out of the stamping die.
I won't weld them in until the roll cage and body have been fitted.
When I turned the body halves over after they had been cut apart I found
the entire
heater channel bottom (the part that bolts to the chassis pan) and most
of the rocker
pannel was rusted away on the passenger side. The replacement parts came
UPS friday.
This mornings project is to weld a temporary brace across the door
opening to hold every
thing in place before I remove the rocker panel. This afternoon a family
feast.
Father Time
David Dymaxion wrote:
> Wild! This should be great! Are there any pictures on the web?
>
> --- Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > ...
> > My current project is a 72 Volkswagon bug, which is undergoing a
> > ground-up restoration, modification and conversion to 156 volts.
> > I'll
> > be running a large DC motor with a 1200 Raptor controller. The
> > Insanity
> > Feature of this vehicle is that I am narrowing it 12 inches. The
> > rear
> > suspension has been narrowed 12 inches and will be running on 10 or
> > 11
> > inch slicks, not yet decided which. The front suspension was
> > narrowed 7
> > inches and will be running 4-1/2 x 15 inch drag tires. The
> > undercarriage has been completely rebuilt and is ready to receive
> > the
> > narrowed body and roll cage when that is ready. I have new
> > aftermarket
> > pans for the floor, which was completely rusted out. And there is
> > quite
> > a bit of body work to be done on the heater channels which rest on
> > the
> > floor pans. Fortunately, there are a lot of aftermarket parts for
> > VW
> > bugs. The current status of the body is that it is sitting in
> > pieces in
> > the driveway, sawn down and ready to be reassembled 12 inches
> > narrower.
> > At least one heater channel will need replacing on the bottom. All
> > of
> > the glass will be replaced with 1/8" Lexan. I'm not setting any
> > deadline on completing this car - I don't need the stress!
> >
> > In the process of narrowing the car, I'll be removing approximately
> > 5
> > square feet of frontal area, which should improve the aero
> > considerably,
> > and the process of narrowing the track will change the aspect
> > ration
> > between the tread and the wheel base. This should give the effect
> > of a
> > longer car.
> > ...
>
> =====
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys, Zamboni conversion fellow again, I am having a hard time locating a 20
hp Shunt wound motor with 2400 rpm. If I use a series wound with a controller
what kind of rpm stability will I achieve? The motor will be running hydraulics
only( Hydrostatic trans and pump for augars etc) I am nervous that the motor
will change it's rpm under different loads and battery voltages.
All comments welcomed
Ellery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am using 2 2.5Ah UPS type gell-cells. I have a Todd
PC-30 which is turned on when the car is on. When
charging, I have a switching power supply charging it
at 13.5V.
Ed Ang
--- John O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> For those that use a DC/DC converter along with a 12
> volt battery in
> their conversions, what battery do you use. In
> particular I am wonder
> how heavy of a battery people use.
>
> Thanks,
>
> John O'Connor
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> Is a rotating inverter the same thing as an automotive alternator?
An alternator is an AC generator. You turn it mechanically (with a belt
or whatever), and it generates AC power. Automotive alternators have
built-in diodes to rectify this AC so it outputs DC power.
A generator is a DC generator. Mechanical input, electrical output. They
have brushes and a commutator to do the job of the rectifiers.
A rotary converter is a combination motor-generator or motor-alternator.
It's an electric motor coupled to a generator or alternator. You input
electrical power (either AC or DC, depending on the type of motor it
uses), and it outputs electrical power at a different voltage and
frequency (can be AC or DC, depending on whether an alternator or
generator is used).
Just to make it more complicated, since all motors can be used as
generators (and vice versa), you can also add a mechanical input to a
rotary converter -- spin it mechanically and you have *two* electrical
outputs; one from its alternator/generator, and another from its "motor"
(being used as a second alternator/generator).
> The regen aspect sounds like a nice aside, but is this more
> efficient that just a straight forward DC/DC? Either way you
> are drawing energy from the pack most of the time.
You're right; it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Both approaches
have about the same efficiency. High quality alternators and generators
are 80-90% efficient. The cheap junky ones used in cars are only 60-70%
efficient, and you lose more yet if you run them with a lossy belt. But,
you get some of this energy back by using it for regen.
The best DC/DC converters are also 80-90% efficient. But again, cheap
ones are worse. But for a given cost, a DC/DC converter is generally
smaller and more efficient than a rotary converter.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all who responded to my question about 12 volt system
batteries. I finally got around to estimating before and after weights
for my pickup conversion, and was looking for a weight plug in for my
calculations.
To my surprise I really don't have much wiggle room with my front GAWR.
The rating is 2,200 (rear is 2,600 and GVWR is 4,700), and I was at or
exceeding the 2,200 if I put any traction batteries up front and
include driver and passenger weight.
Then I realized that according to my pre-conversion certified scale
results (steer axle 2,080, drive axle 1,460, total vehicle 3,540), when
I get in the drivers seat I exceed the front rating if I assume 100% of
my weight is put on the front axle never mind another passenger or some.
Am I correct to assume that Nissan designed the vehicle to allow both a
driver and passengers (it is after all the King Cab model with 2 fold
down seats), and that some or much of the weight in the engine
compartment is actually carried on both axles.
If this is true then is it reasonable for me to just plan on replacing
ICE weight removed from the engine compartment with battery and
component weights and call it good as far as the front is concerned and
keep the total conversion weight including me and passengers/cargo
below the GVWR?
As an aside does anyone know how I can get a weight for a 1987 Nissan
V6 engine block? I have done some google searches but can't find
anything. I am using 300 lbs for my calculations.
John O'Connor
Converting a 1986.5 Nissan King Cab in Sacramento Ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John O'Connor wrote:
Am I correct to assume that Nissan designed the vehicle to allow both a
driver and passengers (it is after all the King Cab model with 2 fold down
seats), and that some or much of the weight in the engine compartment is
actually carried on both axles.
John I am not sure you are following the weight and balance concept
correctly. Weight and balance is a calculation of weight and its position
in regards to a reference point. This calculation is called its
moment. Any weight in a vehicle will affect the loading on both axles
unless it is directly centered on one of the axles. For example, adding a
50 pound battery directly over the front axle on a truck will add 50 pounds
load to the front axle but have no effect on the rear. Moving it forward
12 inches may increase the load the front axle to 60 pounds, but reduce the
load on the rear axle by 10 pounds. This is a leverage affect. Because
your project is a truck and the cab is forward of center on the wheelbase,
the passenger weight in your truck is going to be carried primarily by the
front axle but partially by the rear axle. Weight added between the axles
impact the axle closest to it more than the one further from it, but it
does affect both.
There is a page on weight and balance at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/balance.html
and a worksheet in Excel at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/vertcg.xls
An extreme example of a weight and balance problem was my Jet 007
(commercial Dodge Omni conversion). This had 15 T-105 batteries behind the
centerline of the rear axle. The caused such a leverage effect that the
front springs did not have to be replaced even though the 5 T-105s, GE
Motor, and controller under the hood weighted much more than the original
engine. Unfortunately, being a front wheel drive it had very poor traction
because of this and greatly overstressed the rear axle. I tried very hard
to not repeat this when I converted my Civic. Despite having only four
batteries under the hood and nine behind the front seat, my car carries
about 60% of the weight on the front wheels. How? The front batteries are
almost all in front of the axle centerline, the rear ones are all forward
of the rear axle, and the passenger seats are forward of center. Yes, I
did give up the rear seat.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can you tell what got in the motor--mud, sand, saltwater, debris
etc.? What to do depends somewhat on what the problem is.
Is there room enough to remove the end cover with the brush
rigging? With that removed the brushes and commutator
can be inspected and cleaned. I hope the motor doesn't have
to be removed to get the end cover off.
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: using a brush motor after long sitting
I got some time to do some work on Paul's 2 motor Porsche , when I started
it up the one motor made lots of brush sparks , I let it idle for a few
minutes , but the arcing didn't go away , This motor worked fine 6 months
ago , the car was out side and has seen 2 hurricanes , so dirt or water has
been blown in it. I'm thinking that the brushes are not sliding in there
holders , motor is in a hard place to get to , . any easy ideas , taking
the motor out would not be easy .
Steve clunn
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On Sunday, February 20, 2005, at 11:23 AM, Mike Chancey wrote:
John O'Connor wrote:
Am I correct to assume that Nissan designed the vehicle to allow both
a driver and passengers (it is after all the King Cab model with 2
fold down seats), and that some or much of the weight in the engine
compartment is actually carried on both axles.
John I am not sure you are following the weight and balance concept
correctly. Weight and balance is a calculation of weight and its
position in regards to a reference point. This calculation is called
its moment. Any weight in a vehicle will affect the loading on both
axles unless it is directly centered on one of the axles.
Well conceptually I understand and more than my poorly worded email
suggests (and thanks for the URLs). I guess I was really surprised at
how much of the driver and passenger weight has to be transferred to
the rear axle, given that the steer axle weight came in only 120 lbs
below the rating and I thought the seats were pretty close to the front
axle. My real misunderstanding must be about the actual geometry of the
vehicle.
With two 200 lbs people in the main seats, 70% of that weight has to be
on the rear axle to stay with the rating correct? Just looking at the
vehicle I would not have guessed that to be the case.
So in the end, how reckless would I be (or how many headaches am I in
for) if I do not go through the trouble of estimating the Lcg of all
items removed and added, and just attempt to add and equal amount of
weight to the engine compartment as I take out, roughly balance the bed
pack over the rear axle and keep the total weight below or close to
GVWR?
All parts are already on the garage floor, so accurate Lcg measurements
are no longer possible.
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EVTC disbanded many years ago. They would have sold off their assets. My
question is, why they don't just go to a local strip.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
Some possible reasons why they wouldn't go to a
dragstrip-
They already have a facility available for free.
Use of a dragstrip would likely be cost prohibitive
and track management would likely see this new
area of competition as unknown, untested, and a
possible liability.
And... The most important part for the
sun-driven racers, the east-west orientation
of the track.
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
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Mike,
Great info, now i just have to digest it...
This is the kind of info/sites that is really important to do a good conversion.
Thanks
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question
> John O'Connor wrote:
>
>
> There is a page on weight and balance at:
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/balance.html
>
> and a worksheet in Excel at:
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/tech/vertcg.xls
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.1.0 - Release Date: 2/18/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except that for a rotary inverter you have the looses twice, once for the
motor and then again for the alternator/generator.
>From what I understand typcial system efficency for rotary inverters is <
70%, so even an average DC/DC converter has higher efficiency.
Then again there is always the regen thing which is basically as close as
you can get to 'free energy'.
> You're right; it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Both approaches
> have about the same efficiency. High quality alternators and generators
> are 80-90% efficient. The cheap junky ones used in cars are only 60-70%
> efficient, and you lose more yet if you run them with a lossy belt. But,
> you get some of this energy back by using it for regen.
>
> The best DC/DC converters are also 80-90% efficient. But again, cheap
> ones are worse. But for a given cost, a DC/DC converter is generally
> smaller and more efficient than a rotary converter.
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While we're on the subject, anyone know of a dc to dc
converter to use on a 156V setup? I've only found them
to 120V. If there is such a thing I'm sure you guys
would know. Thanks
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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--- Begin Message ---
http://www.vicr.com/documents/datasheets/ds_batmod.pdf
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question
> While we're on the subject, anyone know of a dc to dc
> converter to use on a 156V setup? I've only found them
> to 120V. If there is such a thing I'm sure you guys
> would know. Thanks
> Gadget
>
> =====
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
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Thanks Rod.
I was just dialing up to find that. I know the link, I just had not made it
happen.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: Cluttered and Complicated...White Zombie Mods
> March 25th is the first day on the track. Go to
> http://www.bremertonraceway.com/ and click on Racing Schedule.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
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www.solectria.com sells DC-DCs in that range, although they are geared
more towards oem. I don't know if electro automotive carries them. You
are looking at more than $1/watt, I think for the Solectria parts. The
12V non battery charging work the best (most reliably) if you size them
correctly.
http://www.solectria.com/products/dcdcconv.html
Seth
On Feb 20, 2005, at 7:03 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
http://www.vicr.com/documents/datasheets/ds_batmod.pdf
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question
While we're on the subject, anyone know of a dc to dc
converter to use on a 156V setup? I've only found them
to 120V. If there is such a thing I'm sure you guys
would know. Thanks
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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You don't really need to know what each part you took off weights and where
it fit in the measurements, you just need to know what you current weight
on each wheel is now. From that you should be able to take it from
there. I didn't really get that specific on mine, I did have the stock
front/rear axle weights, and I knew the weight of the engine assembly. I
then carefully worked out the motor and battery balance, and then let
everything else just fall where it fit, but tried to stay as far forward
(front wheel drive) as possible. I am slightly over GVW for a hatchback,
but under GVW for the EX sedan and Integra that the suspension and brakes
were taken from.
In your case I can't seem to understand how you're running out of front
axle capacity. How much weight do you have on the front axle now? Maybe
you could borrow/rent a couple of aircraft scales and find out? You
mentioned using 300 pounds as the assumed weight of the engine. I think
that may be way too low. The "wet" weight of the 4 cylinder in my Civic
was 265 pounds according to the book. Your V-6 must be much more than
that. Don't forget to include accessories, radiator, coolant, oil, ect.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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please contact me off list
Thanks
Seth
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I used a motorcycle battery in my Honda Civic. I don't recall the size, but
it was about the smallest one I could find. The purpose was just to absorb
peak current above that which the DC:DC could supply, and run the four way
flashers for a little while if everything went south.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Est. yearly US cost to safeguard Persian Gulf oil supply: $50 billion
Est. 2001 value of US crude oil imports from Persian Gulf: $19 billion
-- Harper's Index, April 2002
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On 19 Feb 2005 at 23:55, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> At what temperature should one switch to
> the winter setting?
The winter setting switches the charger on periodically to keep the battery
warm. If you insulate your battery boxes, you don't need it. It also
overcharges the battery, so you're better off not using it at all.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
All we learn from history is history repeats.
-- Andrew Ratshin
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