EV Digest 4151
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: RAV4 Info Palm device
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: NEDRA rule changes
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NEDRA rule changes
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Warning sound for approaching EV
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Power Transmission (was: Re: NEDRA rule changes)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: SiC Schottkys
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Plug-In-Hybrids -THANK-You Thank-you!!!
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Plug-In Hybrids ! Thank You ! Thank you...
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Shunt Regulators
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: PM motor for gen RE: 3 phase PM-long and heading OT
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) RE: Dave Cloud's Rules ideas
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Getting OT, was Re: 100,000 volt DC power supply
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: That other VW kit
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Really lousy range.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Disturbing energy use.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Disturbing energy use.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Tell the World about "EV1.ORG" ( Window Paint )
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: 3 phase PM-long and heading OT
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I did a google on 'Panasonic EV-95' (batteries from the RAV4) to find out more
about them and came up with http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/catalog/e_maru.html.
EV-95 Specific Energy 63Wh/kg Specific Power 200W/kg
HEV Specific Energy 40 Wh/kg Specific Power 800W/kg
There is also a link, http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/catalog/e_kaku.html to
the new Prismatic battery which looks like it is for the Prius.
Prismatic Specific Energy 45Wh/kg Specific Power 1300W/kg
Can we get them and the battery ECU?
http://www.peve.panasonic.co.jp/e_catalog1.html
Rush
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--- Begin Message ---
you could have the cord unplug at the car so you don't have a 1/4 mile of
flying cord just 1/4 mile of cord on the ground . since we're dreaming , how
about 2 wires over head something that scrubs on top to pick up the juice
like the trolleys trains
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA rule changes
Hmmm...I think it would be an interesting event, building a vehicle that
use a cable instead of a battery pack. Lighter vehicle, with the quick
disconnect acting as the shut down at the end of the 1/8 or 1/4 mile...Do
the rules explicitly state that the vehicle must be self contained?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James and All,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You know, this sounds like something I might like to
> try. I used to own an old
> VW Beetle, and there is a guy near my folks that
> works on nothing but old VWs.
> I bet I could get a mechanically sound one for very
> little money without an engine.
>
> I like the idea of a contactor controller too. The
> problem with this is I can't
> for the life of me find anyplace to buy contactors
> that could handle 72 - 96v
> and a reasonable enough amp load for a small ev that
> aren't so expensive as to
> be almost as much as a cursit. Am I missing
> something?
You just need to look for bargins!
The best are the ones from Lectric Leopards.
I use new Curtis/Albright Sw80's for my e-woody GE
100 amp Citi-car motor similar to an A89 that draws
150 amps most of the time though these are not rated
for it I've had no problem except once when I started
accidently in top speed at full charge! ;-))
I get them from Surplus Center, 800-488-3407 for
13.95 each with 48-60vdc coils, #11-2337. With a small
resistor would work from 72 or 96vdc. Would be great
for a 48-96vdc batt pack contactor controller. At 450
ohm's they use little power so could be run off a
small DC/DC for other voltages if nessasary.
If you use 2-36vdc 2.2hp golf cart motors and 8
27tmh's they would be a low cost, very good,
reasonably fast and cheap set-up for a VW EV or other
under 1800lb EV with a transmission or 1300lb without
one. At 96vdc they would give you about 12hp cont and
50hp peak with 90'lbs torque peak and 1/2 that at
48vdc with 6 v batts.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> James
>
>
> Quoting jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > I'd go with the Steve Clunn method of making
> your
> > own adaptor like putting an extension on the trans
> > input shaft if nessasary, I don't know what it
> looks
> > like, and drill a hole in the plate to fit it
> exactly,
> > then just drill out the bell housing holes.
> > After that centered on that hole and drill
> the
> > motors mounting bolts for it from a paper pattern.
> > Then mount it direct to the input shaft with a
> Love
> > Joy or other coupler connector. This will only
> cost
> > under $100 or less if you use 1/2" alum plate. You
> > could get by with thinner. Use a 100-150 amp
> series
> > motor you can get for under $400 surplus or used.
> > Or do the center pulley thing like the
> website
> > mentioned did and with 2 golf cart motors and 8mm
> cog
> > belts.
> > I'd go with 72vdc pack of Trojan 27tmh 12v or
> > t105-125's or US batt versions for longer range if
> > needed charged with a 36vdc charger modified for
> 72vdc
> > if using an E controller or my favorite, a
> contactor
> > controller and charge them in parallel at 36vdc.
> By
> > series/parallel both the batts and the motors you
> get
> > 3 speeds and 4 gears plus reverse.
> > This will get you a true 50mph and about 20
> mile
> > range with the 12vdc batt pack and probably 50
> miles
> > with the t125 pack. YMMV
> > And do it for around $700-1200 for the EV
> parts
> > depending on how well you can scrounge. And be a
> much
> > better EV than the one from the website.
> >
> > >
> > > It's a great idea, but I don't know enough about
> > > this particular kit to
> > > say whether it actually works or is junk.
> > >
> > > As you say, the old VW Beetles are an attractive
> > > "glider" due to their
> > > simplicity. They are small and light, which
> scales
> > > down all the EV parts
> > > needed, to keep the price low. If all you are
> > > striving for is NEV type
> > > performance, it could indeed be a very simple
> and
> > > inexpensive
> > > conversion.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to imagine the "typical" person that
> > > wants to try an EV
> > > conversion (if there is such a thing! :-) I see
> > > someone who is:
> > >
> > > - sick and tired of the high cost of driving
> > > - has serious environmental or political
> concerns
> > > with our present
> > > imported-oil-based transportation system
> > > - has a reasonable amount of mechanical skill
> > > - likes "tinkering" with things to get them to
> work
> > > - actually enjoys being a bit "different" from
> > > others
> > > - already has an old car they would like
> convert
> > >
> > > Now, what is stopping them from actually doing
> an EV
> > > conversion?
> > >
> > > - doesn't have much money
> > > - no good place to work on it
> > > - lack of knowledge
> > > - knows very little about EV parts
> > > - fear of failure
> > >
> > > The EV list goes a long way towards addressing
> these
> > > concerns. I think
> > > once a person discovers the EV list, it goes a
> > > *long* way towards
> > > encouraging them to proceed. Information is
> POWER!
> > >
> > > But, the EV list isn't very good at providing
> > > *complete* information.
> > > People are more likely to say "This is how I did
> it"
> > > rather than
> > > describe "How *you* can do it" in sufficient
> detail
> > > so a beginner
> > > actually *can* do it. Good directions are
> difficult
> > > to write!
> > >
> > > A good conversion kit helps a lot, but they are
> only
> > > available for a few
> > > specific vehicles. And (wouldn't you know it)
> many
> > > potential builders
> > > don't happen to have (or are not interested in)
> > > those vehicles.
> >
> > >>
> > > I wonder if a motor coupler and adapter plate
> might
> > > be able to be
> > > fashioned with similar techniques. Something a
> "guy
> > > in his garage" could
> > > make with hand tools. Perhaps by using the
> vehicle's
> > > existing engine
> > > block and crankshaft end as patterns (cut 'em
> off
> > > with a torch or
> > > sawsall and use them?)
> >
> > NO!!!! At least not on a VW Bug as they are
> made
> > from magnesium!!!!! Alway be careful especially
> when
> > cutting, grinding as it can explode!!! One kid in
> > Sarasota did this with a grinder and the grinded
> bits
> > ignited and badly burned INTO his face!
> > And diffinently not using a torch!!
> > HTH's,
> > jerry dycus
> >
> > >
> > > The goal is to provide sufficiently detailed
> > > instructions, that do not
> > > require too many special skills or tools, and
> with
> > > sources and prices
> > > for parts, so that a reasonable person can look
> it
> > > over and say, "Yes! I
> > > can do that!"
> > > --
> > > "The two most common elements in the universe
> > > are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
> > > --
> > > Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> > > leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
> > Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
> > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
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--- Begin Message ---
Or...(continuing the thread) you could have 220 yards of cable, near the
middle of the run, and let it go 1/8 mile in one direction (Starting line)
to the other end. Think weedeater cord in the frontyard.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA rule changes
you could have the cord unplug at the car so you don't have a 1/4 mile of
flying cord just 1/4 mile of cord on the ground . since we're dreaming ,
how about 2 wires over head something that scrubs on top to pick up the
juice like the trolleys trains
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: NEDRA rule changes
Hmmm...I think it would be an interesting event, building a vehicle that
use a cable instead of a battery pack. Lighter vehicle, with the quick
disconnect acting as the shut down at the end of the 1/8 or 1/4 mile...Do
the rules explicitly state that the vehicle must be self contained?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod asked about my comment:
"I read of a TEVan being stripped and converted into
conventional ICE
Dodge
Caravan and I cringed."
Mike,
Any details on this? Just curious about the
conversion.
Thanks,
Rod
P.S. What did they do with the extra parts?
I don't recall all the details as it was at least five years back on the
EVDL, but I think the fellow that got the parts was going to convert
something else, I can't recall what it was but I think a small car. The
deal was a TEVan was sold at a utility auction, the buyer was "going to
convert it back to a gas powered van" and the potential EVer was given the
left over electric parts. He asked a few questions of the List, then vanished.
I am hoping the TEVan that is being parted on Ebay isn't a similar story.
Thanks,
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Tom Shay wrote:
Quietness was one of the things I appreciated about my EV when I
had one. I can't imagine wanting to make an EV louder.
I agree. I see the EV "stealth mode" as another plus of using an
electric drive, and I like it. Unfortunately, my old transmission makes
a lot of gear noise at higher RPM.
Speaking of clueless pedestrians, I was going down a one way, two lane
road the other day at the speed limit (40 mph) and as I'm coming around
this long, wide curve, there's this older guy walking his bike across
the road, and I think he was crossing as slow as he possibly could. The
stupidest thing was that he was looking down the road in the wrong
direction and didn't see me coming!!! :-0 . Well, of course I was
slowing down, but even as I got close to him he (I guess) didn't hear me
at all because he didn't look in my direction until AFTER he had already
crossed, and he then seemed a bit shocked to see my Jeep Cherokee right
there...
Oh, and the Jeep has dual horns which are IMO loud for stock horns. I
missed the opportunity to honk at him, which is probably good as he
really would've been startled then.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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Sam asked:
"...recently if it is possible to use a plasma arc to
power a free-floating (eg: magnetically suspended) rotor..."
Jeff replied:
The answer is Yes, but only in a pure vacuum ;-)
Oh... that makes my blood boil <g>.
Paul G.
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Rich Rudman wrote:
> Funny Lee..
No, I'm not trying to be funny, Rich. I hope you don't get the idea that
I'm joking, or trying to criticise existing designs.
> Correct me if I am wrong here... but reverse recovery is rather
> dominant in the design of a Buck controller. AKA DC electrical
> Vehicle controller as we know them.
Yes. The key phrase in your sentence being "...as we know them". Most
are a basic textbook buck converter. One capacitor, one inductor, one
transistor, one diode. Of course, each of these parts may in fact be
multiple parts in parallel just to get the needed voltage and current
ratings; but the basic circuit is the same. The circuit looks like this
(view with a fixed width font):
+V_______________________
| _|_ _|
| diode /_\ _| inductor
| |_____| (motor)
capacitor_|_ |
(battery)___ |_|
| -||_ mosfet
| | |
-V________|________|
Looks simple, doesn't it? :-) But when you build it, you find that the
non-ideal nature of the parts gets in the way.
The capacitor is often skimped on; they use the battery's capacitance
instead. But the battery is a poor high-frequency capacitor, and has
lots of series inductance.
The inductor is usually just the motor's inductance. It too is not built
for high frequencies, and has lots of stray capacitance.
The MOSFET and diode are likewise imperfect. They take time to turn on
and off.
All the connecting wiring also adds significant inductance, and there
are capacitive effects between the parts as well. These all conspire to
make the waveforms decidedly less than idea.
One deadly path is the loop thru the capacitor, diode, and MOSFET. When
the diode is conducting and you turn the MOSFET on, there is a time in
which *both* are on. The capacitor can supply a horrendous peak current.
For an instant the MOSFET and diode can see the full motor load current
*AND* full pack voltage. The peak power dissipated in them is enormous
-- a 100v pack x 100a motor current = 10kw in the diode and MOSFET!
The "easy" solution is to just use bigger parts, to withstand these
peaks. But such parts cost more, and you will lose efficiency and
reliability due to these transient peaks. It's not unusual for these
switching losses to exceed the conduction losses.
When you look at more sophisticated circuits, they add extra parts to
greatly reduce or eliminate these transients.
Suppose you are using a relay to switch an inductive DC load. You'll
have considerable contact arcing, and have to use a much larger relay to
withstand it. But add a trivial RC snubber network across the relay
contact; it drastically reduces the contact arcing. This greatly extends
the contact's life, and even lets you safely use a much smaller contact.
The same thing is true for buck converter based PWM controllers. Most
have no transient suppression at all, and rely on brute-force oversized
parts to withstand the stress.
But when you look at more sophisticated switchmode power circuits, you
will see that the designers were aware of this problem, and included the
extra parts and circuits needed to manage these effects. The resulting
designs are smaller, cheaper, and more efficient.
I think that if someone is going to mass produce a PWM controller, it is
only a matter of time before they will realize that there are great
improvements to be made by applying the same soft-switching and snubbing
techniques already used in almost all other switchmode power circuits.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Jack Knopf wrote:
> Most working individuals can find a place to work on an EV, find
> the knowledge they need and overcome the fear of failure, but the
> one thing that just comes hard is Money.
Very true. However, with sufficient knowledge, you can substitute hard
work and resourceful scrounging for money.
You can buy used or surplus parts for 10 cents on the dollar (or less!).
You can make or modify parts, or buy "broken" parts that are in fact
easy to repair. Particularly for students, people will often donate
parts for free that are better than anything you could have purchased.
Knowledge is the secret. You have to know what you can substitute, where
things can be found cheap, and how to modify things to make them work.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Dear Mr. Zakaria
I have been in this EV biz' for 25 years. Have had 5 Pure BEV's (
Battery Electric Vehicles ) of my own, and presently drive a Honda
Insight...
But if I could... I would mortgage my Right Arm to have a plug-In
Hybrid ANYTHING !
Can't thank you enough for bringing this to the national forefront
through the Newsweek Magazine. I can only imagine how happy the folks
at www.CalCars.Org are. They have been modifying new Gen-2 Toyota
Prius's to plug-in, to prove your Very point, at their own expense, for
some time now. And by augmenting their gas usage with
home-charging,larger battery packs, and software tweaking, they have
been registering 70 to 80 mpg on their Prius.
Now.... Check out EV Drag Racing at: www.NEDRA.org ( National Electric
Drag Racing Association ) They're NHRA Sanctioned !! Can you say " How
to beat a V-10 Viper in the quarter mile ...with NO GAS ??? "
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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PS: Trying to write the writer at Newsweek, Fareed Zakaria, BOUNCED !
The address on the web is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] But the Bounce
message (more or less) stated that his IN-BOX is way over full, and
"try again later"
And I will....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
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Mike Chancey wrote:
> Face it, EV's work. Some better than others, but they all do work.
> Not one should be allowed to be destroyed if at all possible. Even
> less than successful ones have lessons to teach...
A great GREAT letter, Mike! I couldn't have said it better myself!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Frank Schmitt wrote:
> I'd like to build a shunt regulator to soak up excessive regen
> current... 40V zener diode in series with a resistor across the
> battery terminals, the middle connection of which would drive
> the base of a big TO-3 transistor shorting the battery terminals
> (the idea being that it would never turn completely on). Does
> this seem like a reasonable approach?
This can work, but it is unnecessarily hard on the transistor. Bipolar
transistors suffer from secondary breakdown when they simultaneously
handle high voltage at high current. Look at the data sheet at the "safe
operating area" curves for the particular part you are using.
For example, the 2N3055 (a common NPN power transistor) is rated at
115w, 60v, and 15a. But, its safe operating area curves say you cannot
exceed:
15a at 8v = 120w
8a at 15v = 120w
3a at 40v = 120w
1.4a at 50v = 70w
0.8a at 60v = 48w
It can handle its rated power at low voltages (with a big enough
heatsink!), but at higher voltages its power handling is significantly
reduced.
All it will take to avoid this problem is to put a power resistor in
series with the transistor's collector. Size the resistor to handle the
maximum bypass current you want to handle. Resistors are far cheaper per
watt than transistors.
With the resistor, the transistor's peak power dissipation occurs when
it and the resistor are splitting the pack voltage equally. At this
point, the transistor sees half the pack voltage (20v), which won't
cause any operating-area problems. And, it sees half the maximum
current; thus power dissipaton is 1/4th as much as it would have been
without the resistor.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if a motor coupler and adapter plate might be able to be
fashioned with similar techniques. Something a "guy in his garage" could
make with hand tools. Perhaps by using the vehicle's existing engine
block and crankshaft end as patterns (cut 'em off with a torch or
sawsall and use them?)
I just finished the adapter plate for the 1930 Mercedes kit car ,
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm
and used some new ideas I had after doing the 300 zx. to get the holes in
the plate to line up with the tranny holes I just set the tranny on the
plate and with a pencil marked them out . Then I drilled them extra big 5/8
. I then cut ten 1 1/2" squares with the exact size hole to fit the tranny
bolts , bolted it up not to tight , put 12v to the motor , taped the tranny
around till it make the least amount of noise , tightened the bolts and
welded the plates to the tranny plate
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projectresearch.htm ( this page seemed to load
slow ) .
I got a new idea while doing this one . since I'm using the motor as the
lath , it wouldn't be hard to make a plate/stand for the motor that would
allow for turning something bigger like a 2 foot square . first I cut a
circle the size for a fly wheel form the aluminum plate , then the rest of
the plate could be used for the tranny plate . with the "was" 2 foot square
now round flywheel that is bolted to the hub , put a big grove where the
presser plate bolts would be , . I'm thinking it would be easier to make a
aluminum fly wheel that to make the hub that holds the flywheel , . The one
I just did ended up being only .001 out of true :-).
Steve clunn
.
The goal is to provide sufficiently detailed instructions, that do not
require too many special skills or tools, and with sources and prices
for parts, so that a reasonable person can look it over and say, "Yes! I
can do that!"
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Jerry!
This could be the ticket for Dave's steamboat...:
> Surplus Center has a Leeson 1800 rpm, 24vdc,
> 62amp,, 32 lbs, sealed, 15min duty that should work
> for you for a gen at $119.99 though you may need to
> put a fan on it at 60 amps though 40 amps should be
> cool. Should be 75% eff or better.
Interesting that the same university study with the motor model I referenced
earlier for the Etek and the Lynch also modeled a 24v Leeson (not sure if
it's this exact one):
http://www.engineer.gvsu.edu/faculty/yackish/Tom%20Yackish%20Index/leeson24v
.htm
At 23v, they indicate 75-80% efficiency from 13-43amps.
Certainly, at 15-17v (around 1200RPM) and 40amps the efficiency will be
less, but good enough. Also, the price and the backEMF look right for our
application---should be able to keep the steam engine R's below 300RPM
pretty easy!
Thanks much!
-Myles Twete
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--- Begin Message ---
<< I'd go with 72vdc pack of Trojan 27tmh 12v or
t105-125's or US batt versions for longer range if
needed charged with a 36vdc charger modified for 72vdc
if using an E controller or my favorite, a contactor
controller and charge them in parallel at 36vdc. By
series/parallel both the batts and the motors you get
3 speeds and 4 gears plus reverse.
This will get you a true 50mph and about 20 mile
range with the 12vdc batt pack and probably 50 miles
with the t125 pack. YMMV
And do it for around $700-1200 for the EV parts
depending on how well you can scrounge. And be a much
better EV than the one from the website. >>
A contactor controller is fine if you are building for someone who knows its
limitations, but if you are aiming for the general public, a couple percentage
points lost in a controller is a lot easier way to handle speed adjustments in
traffic. This is why so many the C-cars are running around with pwm
controllers, even if the original contactors were easier to fix. Plus, Lawrence
was just thinking of NEV use, so you shouldn't need to shift at all with a 25mph
top speed.
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<<
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4531093063&ca\
tegory=34202&sspagename=WDVW
I am gonna have to hurry up and do my taxes! I will ask him for more specs >>
The seller also referred to pwm as "cutting edge technology" when selling the
contactor-controlled Kaylor shunt motor kit for VWs. Did he build this
conversion or is this one he's selling for a friend?
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Yes, you can certainly spend less for a used gasser and have fun
locally (I do!). My local autocross club has a guy that bought a
go-kart for a few hundred dollars and has taken fast-time-of-the-day
with it. I don't think I would stand a chance of winning any national
event even if I won the lottery and plowed $25k into my gasser.
It is certainly rare, though, that someone spends less than $25k and
comes home with a national level trophy with a full-sized car! EV
racing is still small enough, and grass roots enough, that you can do
this.
Re: "$25,000 plus who knows how much time plus only a few runs a
year? Yes that is high dollar." $25k is alot for me and you, but
everything is relative. Part of the fun and awe of racing for me is
to go to the Salt Flats and see guys with extremely expensive rigs
that run just once a year. Heck, lots of racers have more than $25k
in the truck for towing the race car trailer! Also, remember $25k is
just the first year cost, you could keep racing the car for several
years with just battery replacements (unless you keep breaking
things!).
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> $25,000 plus who knows how much time plus only a few runs a year?
> Yes that is high dollar. I know people who spend lots less with a
> gasser that goes faster and they run a lot more.
>
> David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Are those cars really high dollar undertakings? $5k worth of
> orbitals
> + $5k work of motors + $5k worth of controller + $5k for the glider
> +
> $5k for other stuff ($25k total) + lots of sweat equity means they
> are still cheaper than any new gas car that could run those times.
> I
> see the glass as more half full, you can actually be nationally
> competitive for surprisingly cheap (relative to racing a gasser)
> with
> an electric.
>
> --- Roger Stockton wrote:
> > ...
> > Let's face it, where is the incentive for people to go out and
> > build a
> > vehicle that would end up competing against Maniac Mazda, Gone
> > Postal,
> > White Zombie or the KillaCycle in order to win a record when
> > setting a
> > record is the only (official) reward one gets?
> >
> > The only reason for singling these vehicles out is that they all
> > happen
> > to be fairly high dollar undertakings that most hobbiests simply
> > can't
> > compete with. We can't all get sponsorship from a battery company
> > or
> > motor company, or controller company and this makes it difficult
> to
> > compete with teams that can afford multiple motors and
> controllers,
> > or
> > batteries the rest of us can't.
> > ...
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
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The seller also referred to pwm as "cutting edge technology" when selling
the
contactor-controlled Kaylor shunt motor kit for VWs. Did he build this
conversion or is this one he's selling for a friend?
There used to be a guy called Kurt who worked with Roy Kaylor and I think he
might have edited CE at some point.
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
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> I'm guessing this thing runs off of a standard 110vac outlet.
> So, you might use a cheap Inverter to power it, are these isolated?
> It would require ( 5,000v to 100,000v * 0.002A ) 10-200 Watts.
>
> Always wanted to play with "Lifters", maybe make my own "ionic breaze".
>
> L8r
> Ryan
If 10 watts is enough to put on a show:
http://www.emcohighvoltage.com/4000se.PDF
Another DC source of HV would be this:
http://www.personalarms.com/schematics.htm
Wonder what kind of "electro-art" you could make out of your EV...
Ok, now it's totally OT!
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On Mar 3, 2005, at 2:44 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Frank Schmitt wrote:
Search for "VW" on EVParts.com. They have raw castings as well as
machined adapters for the 8" and 9" ADC motors.
That's it alright. Where was it made at, and how did whoever go about
getting it made in the first place? It just seems like a rather
unique item all things considered and compared to what else is
available.. That somebody somewhere did whatever it took to get those
produced.
What's the story behind them?
Don't know about those particular adapters, but Kaylor Energy Products
made a cast aluminum adapter. It looks a lot different from the
EVParts unit.
http://www.kaylor-kit.com/ - home page shows a couple of pictures of
the adapter.
Hard to tell if they're still operating or not.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
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As well as the Electravan runs the Aspire was better at range. Both
vehicles have about the same percentage of battery weight. The Electra van
goes about half as far on the same charge. It's now down to 122.3 after
close to 14 miles driving. The SOC meter shows 48%. The Aspire could go
to Berkeley and back and do some around town driving and show that voltage.
38 miles. I can't figure out why the volts are being sucked away. The Truck
cruises on 25 to 30 amps going 25mph on the level. It rarely goes above 150
amps while accelerating up hills. I can't figure out where the drain is
comming from. The temperature is in the 60's. I can drive my other EV's
like the Lectra downtown and back about 7 miles and the volt meter won't
move. The Electravan's voltage drops radically. Just coasting down my hill
it'll drop to 90%. Anybody else had this experience? The Electravan is
supposed to have a 60 mile range.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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These are new US 125's. The charger charges them to 7.96vdc each. The
charger ammeter shows near 0 amps at end of charge. Plenty of bubbles and
smell and end of charge. Resting voltage of about 6.5 if I disconnect the
pack. I suspect a drain. I saw 6.25 once after a day sitting. I measure
126vdc to the frame while charging. Measured at the - side. I'll drive a
mile and it's down to 69%. It does come back a bit. If I drive 5miles and
it's down to 50% an hour later it will jump back to 70% LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: Disturbing energy use.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I just checked my Electravan and the SOC meter read 89%. It had been
sitting in Garage 6 hours after charging . The temp there is 65�.
Yesterday the meter went down to 90% just coasting down a hill. I
frequently go 5 or so miles and I am down 50%. The car seems to
effortlessly glide along at 50 amps or less. What could be going on? I
thought I could go 30 miles and the SOC would be 50%. What could be
draining the pack? It loses voltage just sitting there. My golfcart
never
did this. It's SOC stayed up till I drove. Same with all my other
EV's........
What kind of SOC meter is this? Just a voltmeter with a scale labelled
"State of Charge"? If so, then all you're saying is that the battery
voltage falls off fast after charging or under light loads.
Are these old batteries, whose fully-charged voltage has declined to
what would have only been 90% SOC when they were new?
Could your charger be shutting off too early, before they are fully
charged?
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Oh yes I do and I am very depressed. 122.3 is even less than 50% SOC and my
meter says it is about 48% of charge. Close enough. If you consider 120v
dead. 126v full charge. I am very bummed. I had sealed batteries in my
Aspire and about the same battery weight in both cars and the Aspire wins
hands down. LR...........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: Disturbing energy use.
Lawrence, the SOC meters on Jet's an just not very accurate or reliable.
Since it determines state of charge solely based on voltage, it just
hasn't got enough info to do so properly. My Jet 007 twice fooled me when
the percent charge gage read 100% but the charger had never been on at
all. The batteries were probably at about 60% charge, but after sitting
14 hours the meter indicated 100%. I suspect yours is even less accurate
for some reason, probably corrosion. After all, it is 25 years old isn't
it?
I would get an E-meter or at least an accurate digital voltmeter. Right
now you don't even have a good guess at the true state of charge.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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I think more people need to hear about (and invistigate) the ev1.org
vigil! Everyone should go out and buy some window paint (shoe polish) and
write EV1.ORG on their car or business windows, perhaps with a nice
personal comment! Mine is going to be "What! No Gas?". It's hard to not
cover a story that has just popped up out of nowhere all over the world!
Even if you yourself don't want or think BEV's are the way to go it's
tough to justify the destruction of existing vehicles with plenty of
willing buyers. So why not help spread the word that these vehicles which
don't use gas exist and are about to be euthanized. Change Happens Now!
L8r
Ryan
ps. Don't worry, the paint will wash off. :)
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Outputs for the CS130ACSE are as follows: about 10amps at 1500rpm, 55amps at
2000, 70amps at 2250, 95amps at 3000, 110amps at 4000, 117amps at 5000,
120amps at 6000. All measured rotor rpm, and I must add recently I have been
beating those numbers by almost 10%.
I put a Thunder Series on the bench yesterday and played around with it for
a while. I had to use my old bench and my hand held tach isn't working, so
these numbers are approximate. But at about 1800rpm at a 35amp load, the
alternators casing got up to 95F, the stator lams hit 147F, and the air
coming out of the fan was 109F. Same load at 2250 and the casings went down
to 90F, the windings to 121F and the air around the fan hit 102F. I could
also physically hear a difference in how hard the alternator was working. At
1800 you knew it was under load, at 2250 it didn't seem like it was working
hard at all.
As for the power in and power out. Some thoughts are if you are going
through a pulley or gear, your torque/hp requirements go up proportionally.
It may be possible that you have only 1.5hp, but sufficient torque to do the
job. If not I suspect that with just 1.5hp and a 3 to 1 pulley ratio that
you can only produce 375watts at 100% efficiency. But since you were able to
get 20amps out of the old GM unit, I think (I am assuming) you have a lot of
extra torque available.
The Bosch units came out this year. They are claiming the efficiency based
on stator winding efficiency. Having never had one apart, or in my hands, I
cannot comment to its claims. To say that I am skeptical, is an under
statement. Bosch makes decent units, but they have never been known for
ground breaking technology. So I would dearly love to see some real world
test results. After all if they are truly that efficient, they will save a
chunk of gas, which would be their biggest selling feature.
The EcoAir has been proven to get the average ambulance 5.9% better fuel
economy. Real world proof of their claims. However the more I think about
it, they are not an option for you anyway. They are meant to be high output
and thus the P/M portion of the rotor covers the first 50-100amps at least
of output. Below that and the other coil has to buck the alternator, which
will take up plenty of HP. So if you had a 100amp load they would be
extremely efficient, but at 40amps they may be extremely inefficient. And
for the record, I can sell you either of these alternators for a lot less
than you are finding on the net. To me they would make very effective regen
braking units for lower voltage vehicles.
In my mind I keep coming back to the Denso square wire units. I will play
with one of these over the weekend and see what is really up with it. I
don't know that I can get you efficient numbers, but a charge curve would be
easy. And from the last time I had one on the bench, it put out huge in the
bottom end. I have about 15 of these in stock that are OE take offs. The
clutch pulleys had gone bad. Another what where you thinking part. But I
could give you a good deal on a rebuilt unit, or even better on a take off.
Raymond
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